How do you know if your blood is thicker

[Guest guest]

Hello All,

Just wondering how do we know that our blood is getting thicker ?

By donating blood how will the blood become thin ?

Joe

[Guest guest]

I'm curious about this too.  Is there any way, without taking a blood test, to

know?  Is it something as anecdotally simple as noting that your blood clots

faster or that it seems to flow slower (say if you prick your finger and notice

how the blood behaves)?  I don't have insurance, so even a " simple " blood test

is $100 or more, so if there was a way to know without the expense, that would

be good to know.

Bill

________________________________

From: inc_100 <no_reply >

Sent: Thu, August 12, 2010 12:13:57 AM

Subject: How do you know if your blood is thicker

 

Hello All,

Just wondering how do we know that our blood is getting thicker ?

By donating blood how will the blood become thin ?

Joe

[Guest guest]

Donating blood all the time will lower your ferritin, which is needed for your

thyroid to function. Theoretically, you should only donate once or twice a year

if you have a thyroid condition, because low ferritin will cause reverse T3,

making you more hypo.

Thick blood is called erythrocytosis. This is defined as high RBC, hematocrit,

and hemoglobin. Being dehydrated can also make your blood appear " thick, " but

some people are so far over the range you know it's not simple dehydration.

RBC is made through a process called erythropoiesis and uses iron, B12, folate

and a hormone called erythropoietin. Thyroid and testosterone both stimulate the

erythropoietin hormone. So too much of either can cause the thick blood.

Donating blood is not the best solution because it doesn't lower your

erythropoietin hormone, and you will continue to make an excess of RBC. You

also lower your ferritin, which you need for thyroid function. A better

approach to control the erythrocytosis would be to lower your testosterone dose

or take less more frequently.

Barb

>

> I'm curious about this too.  Is there any way, without taking a blood test,

to

> know?  Is it something as anecdotally simple as noting that your blood clots

> faster or that it seems to flow slower (say if you prick your finger and

notice

> how the blood behaves)?  I don't have insurance, so even a " simple " blood

test

> is $100 or more, so if there was a way to know without the expense, that would

> be good to know.

>

> Bill

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> From: inc_100 <no_reply >

>

> Sent: Thu, August 12, 2010 12:13:57 AM

> Subject: How do you know if your blood is thicker

>

>  

> Hello All,

>

> Just wondering how do we know that our blood is getting thicker ?

>

> By donating blood how will the blood become thin ?

>

> Joe

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I've always had " thick " blood.

The way I've known is that they have always told me - since I was a kid - that

my red count is high.

Now I know that's because my blood volume is low probably due to low aldosterone

which is probably due to low adrenal function.

There were no other symptoms that I know of.

>

> I'm curious about this too.  Is there any way, without taking a blood test,

to

> know?  Is it something as anecdotally simple as noting that your blood clots

> faster or that it seems to flow slower (say if you prick your finger and

notice

> how the blood behaves)?  I don't have insurance, so even a " simple " blood

test

> is $100 or more, so if there was a way to know without the expense, that would

> be good to know.

>

> Bill

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> From: inc_100 <no_reply >

>

> Sent: Thu, August 12, 2010 12:13:57 AM

> Subject: How do you know if your blood is thicker

>

>  

> Hello All,

>

> Just wondering how do we know that our blood is getting thicker ?

>

> By donating blood how will the blood become thin ?

>

> Joe

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Barb,

Your advice that giving blood doesn't solve the problem with " thick blood " goes

against what I've read and been told (by a well-known TRT doctor).  I'm not

disputing your viewpoint.  I want what works.  Can you help me with some facts

and sources that backup your statement?

Bill 

________________________________

From: Barb <baba@...>

Sent: Thu, August 12, 2010 11:37:21 AM

Subject: Re: How do you know if your blood is thicker

 

Donating blood all the time will lower your ferritin, which is needed for your

thyroid to function. Theoretically, you should only donate once or twice a year

if you have a thyroid condition, because low ferritin will cause reverse T3,

making you more hypo.

Thick blood is called erythrocytosis. This is defined as high RBC, hematocrit,

and hemoglobin. Being dehydrated can also make your blood appear " thick, " but

some people are so far over the range you know it's not simple dehydration.

RBC is made through a process called erythropoiesis and uses iron, B12, folate

and a hormone called erythropoietin. Thyroid and testosterone both stimulate the

erythropoietin hormone. So too much of either can cause the thick blood.

Donating blood is not the best solution because it doesn't lower your

erythropoietin hormone, and you will continue to make an excess of RBC. You also

lower your ferritin, which you need for thyroid function. A better approach to

control the erythrocytosis would be to lower your testosterone dose or take less

more frequently.

Barb

>

> I'm curious about this too.  Is there any way, without taking a blood test,

to

>

> know?  Is it something as anecdotally simple as noting that your blood

clots

> faster or that it seems to flow slower (say if you prick your finger and

notice

>

> how the blood behaves)?  I don't have insurance, so even a " simple "

blood

>test

>

> is $100 or more, so if there was a way to know without the expense, that would

> be good to know.

>

> Bill

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> From: inc_100 <no_reply >

>

> Sent: Thu, August 12, 2010 12:13:57 AM

> Subject: How do you know if your blood is thicker

>

>  

> Hello All,

>

> Just wondering how do we know that our blood is getting thicker ?

>

> By donating blood how will the blood become thin ?

>

> Joe

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Someone here posted that he does regular blood donations and yet everytime they

test him, he still has thick blood. Hopefully he's reading and can repost.

Actually I think Phil does the same. I know he has high rT3.

The blood donation only temporarily depletes your RBC. If you still have high

erythropoietin, you will continue to make an excess.

I guess the best analogy would be a bucket under a faucet that's wide open and

flowing fast. Dumping the bucket all the time is not the same as just lowering

the faucet flow. Dumping the bucket keeps your bucket from overflowing, but is

not dealing with the cause or the problem.

Barb

> >

> > I'm curious about this too.  Is there any way, without taking a blood

test, to

> >

> > know?  Is it something as anecdotally simple as noting that your blood

clots

> > faster or that it seems to flow slower (say if you prick your finger and

notice

> >

> > how the blood behaves)?  I don't have insurance, so even a " simple "

blood

> >test

> >

> > is $100 or more, so if there was a way to know without the expense, that

would

>

> > be good to know.

> >

> > Bill

> >

> >

> >

> > ________________________________

> > From: inc_100 <no_reply >

> >

> > Sent: Thu, August 12, 2010 12:13:57 AM

> > Subject: How do you know if your blood is thicker

> >

> >  

> > Hello All,

> >

> > Just wondering how do we know that our blood is getting thicker ?

> >

> > By donating blood how will the blood become thin ?

> >

> > Joe

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

To tell you do a CBC blood test if your Hemoglobin and Hematocrit are high after

drinking enough water befor doing the labs then your blood is to think and for

some men this can happen from being on TRT the wrong way. Things like doing big

300mgs shots every 3 weeks even 200mgs shots every 2 weeks is not the right way.

I do my shots every 3 days this helps keep me more leveled and holds down my

blood thinkness and helps keep Estradiol levels down.

Some Dr.'s get up set if your just above the top of the range but I hear it's

not a problem until your much higher.

===================================================

III. POTENTIAL SIDE EFFECTS OF TESTOSTERONE

Increased red blood cell (RBC) count

Higher-than-normal numbers of RBCs may indicate congenital heart disease, cor

pulmonale (failure of the right side of the heart caused by prolonged high blood

pressure in the pulmonary artery and right ventricle), polycythemia, or kidney

disease with high erythropoietin production. For more on polycythemia, see

below.

Increased hemoglobin (HGB)

Higher-than-normal hemoglobin may indicate congenital heart disease, cor

pulmonale (failure of the right side of the heart caused by prolonged high blood

pressure in the pulmonary artery and right ventricle), polycythemia, or

increased RBC formation associated with excess erythropoietin. For more on

polycythemia, see below.

Increased hematocrit (HCT)

High HCT may indicate dehydration, erythrocytosis (excessive red blood cell

production), or polycythemia. For more on polycythemia, see below.

back to the top

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Polycythemia

Testosterone usage has been shown to increase " erythropoiesis, " or red blood

cell production. " Polycythemia " is an abnormally high level of red blood cells.

An excess of red blood cells thickens the blood, impeding its passage through

small blood vessels and causing a number of potential health problems. There are

a few different types of polycythemia: " polycythemia vera, " " relative

polycythemia, " and " secondary polycythemia. "

It is important to understand the differences between the three types of this

condition, because polycythemia as a result of testosterone usage would probably

best be categorized under secondary polycythemia. Of course, if your doctor

diagnoses you with polycythemia, it is still important to determine which type

of polycythemia you have and proceed with the proper treatment-- one should not

automatically assume that an initial elevated RBC or HCT reading is necessarily

secondary polycythemia simply based on testosterone use alone. Family history

and other factors (listed below) should be considered.

Polycythemia vera (or " primary polycythemia " ) is a rare myeloproliferative

disorder, meaning that the bone marrow cells (which produce red blood cells)

proliferate uncontrollably. In polycythemia vera, the RBC count increases

without being stimulated by the red blood cell stimulating hormone,

erythropoietin (EPO). Risk factors include exposure to radiation, some cancer

therapy drugs, and familial history of polycythemia vera.

In the case of relative polycythemia, an individual has an excess of RBCs due to

a loss of volume in the plasma (the liquid portion of the blood). This can be

due to dehydration, use of diuretics, burns, stress, or high blood pressure.

Secondary polycythemia is defined as an absolute increase in RBCs caused by an

increase in the RBC stimulating hormone, erythropoietin (EPO). Potential causes

include low blood oxygen caused by heart disease, prolonged carbon monoxide

exposure caused by smoking, hereditary disorders producing an abnormal

hemoglobin or an overproduction of EPO, or kidney disease.

Complications that can arise from polycythemia include thrombosis (blood clots

that can cause stroke or heart attack), hemorrhage, and heart failure.

The objective of treatment is to reduce the thickness of the blood due to the

increased red blood cell mass and to prevent hemorrhage and thrombosis.

Phlebotomy is one method used to reduce the high blood viscosity (blood

thickness). In phlebotomy, 1 pint of blood is removed weekly until the HCT is

less than 45%, then phlebotomy is continued as necessary.

For relative polycythemia and secondary polycythemia, treatment must also

address any underlying risk factors, such as smoking.

back to the top

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: inc_100 <no_reply >

> Subject: How do you know if your blood is thicker

>

> Date: Thursday, August 12, 2010, 12:13 AM

> Hello All,

>

> Just wondering how do we know that our blood is getting

> thicker ?

>

> By donating blood how will the blood become thin ?

>

> Joe

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Only a CBC blood test will show this. And I need to tell you it needs to be

checked but it's not a big problem for men on TRT just a small amount of men

have this problem.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Bill Totten <bill_totten@...>

> Subject: Re: How do you know if your blood is thicker

>

> Date: Thursday, August 12, 2010, 9:08 AM

> I'm curious about this too.  Is

> there any way, without taking a blood test, to

> know?  Is it something as anecdotally simple as noting

> that your blood clots

> faster or that it seems to flow slower (say if you prick

> your finger and notice

> how the blood behaves)?  I don't have insurance, so even

> a " simple " blood test

> is $100 or more, so if there was a way to know without the

> expense, that would

> be good to know.

>

> Bill

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> From: inc_100 <no_reply >

>

> Sent: Thu, August 12, 2010 12:13:57 AM

> Subject: How do you know if your blood is

> thicker

>

>  

> Hello All,

>

> Just wondering how do we know that our blood is getting

> thicker ?

>

> By donating blood how will the blood become thin ?

>

> Joe

>

>

>

>

>

>      

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes your on the money men have higher levels of blood due to over doing the dose

on TRT. Dr.'s tell them to give blood to get there levels down until the lower

dose of Testosterone kicks in.

One like you said should not stay on to much Testosterone and give blood all the

time to keep blood thinner.

But the problem is how high is to high and most older men are dehydrated they

need to drink more water everyday.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Barb <baba@...>

> Subject: Re: How do you know if your blood is thicker

>

> Date: Thursday, August 12, 2010, 11:37 AM

> Donating blood all the time will

> lower your ferritin, which is needed for your thyroid to

> function.  Theoretically, you should only donate once

> or twice a year if you have a thyroid condition, because low

> ferritin will cause reverse T3, making you more hypo.

>

> Thick blood is called erythrocytosis.  This is defined

> as high RBC, hematocrit, and hemoglobin.  Being

> dehydrated can also make your blood appear " thick, " but some

> people are so far over the range you know it's not simple

> dehydration. 

>

> RBC is made through a process called erythropoiesis and

> uses iron, B12, folate and a hormone called erythropoietin.

> Thyroid and testosterone both stimulate the erythropoietin

> hormone.  So too much of either can cause the thick

> blood.

>

> Donating blood is not the best solution because it doesn't

> lower your erythropoietin hormone, and you will continue to

> make an excess of RBC.  You also lower your ferritin,

> which you need for thyroid function.  A better approach

> to control the erythrocytosis would be to lower your

> testosterone dose or take less more frequently. 

>

> Barb

>

>

> >

> > I'm curious about this too.  Is there any way,

> without taking a blood test, to

> > know?  Is it something as anecdotally simple as

> noting that your blood clots

> > faster or that it seems to flow slower (say if you

> prick your finger and notice

> > how the blood behaves)?  I don't have insurance,

> so even a " simple " blood test

> > is $100 or more, so if there was a way to know without

> the expense, that would

> > be good to know.

> >

> > Bill

> >

> >

> >

> > ________________________________

> > From: inc_100 <no_reply >

> >

> > Sent: Thu, August 12, 2010 12:13:57 AM

> > Subject: How do you know if your blood

> is thicker

> >

> >  

> > Hello All,

> >

> > Just wondering how do we know that our blood is

> getting thicker ?

> >

> > By donating blood how will the blood become thin ?

> >

> > Joe

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >       

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

This study says multiple blood donations can create another problem of iron

deficiency anemia. Just saying.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17287551

Indian J Med Res. 2006 Dec;124(6):641-6.

Evaluation of iron stores in blood donors by serum ferritin.

Mittal R, Marwaha N, Basu S, Mohan H, Ravi Kumar A.

Department of Pathology, Post Graduate Institute of Medical Education & Research

(PGIMER), Chandigarh, India.

Comment in:

* Indian J Med Res. 2006 Dec;124(6):611-2.

Abstract

BACKGROUND & OBJECTIVES: Regular blood donation can lead to pre-clinical iron

deficiency as well as iron deficiency anaemia. There is a need to increase the

national voluntary blood donation for safe blood supply. However, there is

paucity of data in the country regarding impact of regular voluntary blood

donation on iron status of donors. Hence, iron stores were evaluated by serum

ferritin estimation in the voluntary blood donors at Chandigarh. METHODS: 400

voluntary blood donors included in the study were divided into four groups

depending upon their periodicity of blood donations. Pre-donation haemoglobin

assessment was done by copper sulphate method. Serum ferritin was estimated by

indirect ELISA. RESULTS: The number of female donors with deficient iron stores

was more as compared to male donors. First time donors had higher mean serum

ferritin levels than that in repeat donors. The frequency of donations per year

was more predictive of decreased iron stores rather than the number of lifetime

donations. An increase in donation frequency was accompanied by a significant

decrease in serum ferritin; values <15 microg/l were found in 21 and 46 per cent

of male and female donors respectively who donated once per year, in 29 and 27

per cent in those who donated twice per year and in 49 and 100 per cent in those

who donated thrice per year. INTERPRETATION & CONCLUSION: Haemoglobin estimation

alone in regular blood donors may not be adequate; serum ferritin estimations

may need to be done to detect pre-clinical iron deficiency states. Also, iron

supplementation needs to be considered in regular, repeat voluntary blood

donors.

> >

> > I'm curious about this too.  Is there any way, without taking a blood

test, to

> >

> > know?  Is it something as anecdotally simple as noting that your blood

clots

> > faster or that it seems to flow slower (say if you prick your finger and

notice

> >

> > how the blood behaves)?  I don't have insurance, so even a " simple "

blood

> >test

> >

> > is $100 or more, so if there was a way to know without the expense, that

would

>

> > be good to know.

> >

> > Bill

> >

> >

> >

> > ________________________________

> > From: inc_100 <no_reply >

> >

> > Sent: Thu, August 12, 2010 12:13:57 AM

> > Subject: How do you know if your blood is thicker

> >

> >  

> > Hello All,

> >

> > Just wondering how do we know that our blood is getting thicker ?

> >

> > By donating blood how will the blood become thin ?

> >

> > Joe

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Dave same thing for me I have allways tested higher my Dr. is not worried about

and my Heart Dr.

I have low very low aldosterone and take Florinef .1 mgs a day for it with 1/2

tsp of Sea Salt added to my water allday long.

I have a canteen 27oz I put 1/2 a tsp full of Sea Salt to this and drink 3 to 4

a day.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Dave <dcbaden@...>

> Subject: Re: How do you know if your blood is thicker

>

> Date: Thursday, August 12, 2010, 11:38 AM

>

> I've always had " thick " blood. 

> The way I've known is that they have always told me - since

> I was a kid - that my red count is high. 

>

> Now I know that's because my blood volume is low probably

> due to low aldosterone which is probably due to low adrenal

> function. 

>

> There were no other symptoms that I know of.

>

>

> >

> > I'm curious about this too.  Is there any way,

> without taking a blood test, to

> > know?  Is it something as anecdotally simple as

> noting that your blood clots

> > faster or that it seems to flow slower (say if you

> prick your finger and notice

> > how the blood behaves)?  I don't have insurance,

> so even a " simple " blood test

> > is $100 or more, so if there was a way to know without

> the expense, that would

> > be good to know.

> >

> > Bill

> >

> >

> >

> > ________________________________

> > From: inc_100 <no_reply >

> >

> > Sent: Thu, August 12, 2010 12:13:57 AM

> > Subject: How do you know if your blood

> is thicker

> >

> >  

> > Hello All,

> >

> > Just wondering how do we know that our blood is

> getting thicker ?

> >

> > By donating blood how will the blood become thin ?

> >

> > Joe

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >       

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Bill at Dr. 's forum men were giving blood too offten and started feeling

bad there Iron looked OK but when we told them to test Ferritin ones Iron

storage level they were very low. This was from giving to much blood.

http://www.musclechatroom.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?s= & daysprune= & f=2

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Bill Totten <bill_totten@...>

> Subject: Re: How do you know if your blood is thicker

>

> Date: Thursday, August 12, 2010, 11:43 AM

> Barb,

>

> Your advice that giving blood doesn't solve the problem

> with " thick blood " goes

> against what I've read and been told (by a well-known TRT

> doctor).  I'm not

> disputing your viewpoint.  I want what works.  Can you

> help me with some facts

> and sources that backup your statement?

>

> Bill 

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> From: Barb <baba@...>

>

> Sent: Thu, August 12, 2010 11:37:21 AM

> Subject: Re: How do you know if your blood

> is thicker

>

>  

> Donating blood all the time will lower your ferritin, which

> is needed for your

> thyroid to function. Theoretically, you should only donate

> once or twice a year

> if you have a thyroid condition, because low ferritin will

> cause reverse T3,

> making you more hypo.

>

> Thick blood is called erythrocytosis. This is defined as

> high RBC, hematocrit,

> and hemoglobin. Being dehydrated can also make your blood

> appear " thick, " but

> some people are so far over the range you know it's not

> simple dehydration.

>

>

> RBC is made through a process called erythropoiesis and

> uses iron, B12, folate

> and a hormone called erythropoietin. Thyroid and

> testosterone both stimulate the

> erythropoietin hormone. So too much of either can cause the

> thick blood.

>

> Donating blood is not the best solution because it doesn't

> lower your

> erythropoietin hormone, and you will continue to make an

> excess of RBC. You also

> lower your ferritin, which you need for thyroid function. A

> better approach to

> control the erythrocytosis would be to lower your

> testosterone dose or take less

> more frequently.

>

>

> Barb

>

>

> >

> > I'm curious about this too.  Is there any way,

> without taking a blood test, to

> >

> > know?  Is it something as anecdotally simple as

> noting that your blood clots

> > faster or that it seems to flow slower (say if you

> prick your finger and notice

> >

> > how the blood behaves)?  I don't have insurance,

> so even a " simple " blood

> >test

> >

> > is $100 or more, so if there was a way to know without

> the expense, that would

>

> > be good to know.

> >

> > Bill

> >

> >

> >

> > ________________________________

> > From: inc_100 <no_reply >

> >

> > Sent: Thu, August 12, 2010 12:13:57 AM

> > Subject: How do you know if your blood

> is thicker

> >

> >  

> > Hello All,

> >

> > Just wondering how do we know that our blood is

> getting thicker ?

> >

> > By donating blood how will the blood become thin ?

> >

> > Joe

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I have higher levels but I don't give blood.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Barb <baba@...>

> Subject: Re: How do you know if your blood is thicker

>

> Date: Thursday, August 12, 2010, 11:59 AM

> Someone here posted that he does

> regular blood donations and yet everytime they test him, he

> still has thick blood.  Hopefully he's reading and can

> repost.  Actually I think Phil does the same.  I

> know he has high rT3.

>

> The blood donation only temporarily depletes your

> RBC.  If you still have high erythropoietin, you will

> continue to make an excess.

>

> I guess the best analogy would be a bucket under a faucet

> that's wide open and flowing fast.  Dumping the bucket

> all the time is not the same as just lowering the faucet

> flow.  Dumping the bucket keeps your bucket from

> overflowing, but is not dealing with the cause or the

> problem.

>

> Barb 

>

>

> > >

> > > I'm curious about this too.  Is there any

> way, without taking a blood test, to

> > >

> > > know?  Is it something as anecdotally

> simple as noting that your blood clots

> > > faster or that it seems to flow slower (say if

> you prick your finger and notice

> > >

> > > how the blood behaves)?  I

> don't have insurance, so even a " simple " blood

> > >test

> > >

> > > is $100 or more, so if there was a way to know

> without the expense, that would

> >

> > > be good to know.

> > >

> > > Bill

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ________________________________

> > > From: inc_100 <no_reply >

> > >

> > > Sent: Thu, August 12, 2010 12:13:57 AM

> > > Subject: How do you know if your

> blood is thicker

> > >

> > >  

> > > Hello All,

> > >

> > > Just wondering how do we know that our blood is

> getting thicker ?

> > >

> > > By donating blood how will the blood become thin

> ?

> > >

> > > Joe

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >       

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Phil,

Nothing you say falls on deaf ears with me. You mentioned that before and since

then I started sea salt. I also salt everything I eat pretty heavily. I like

the taste, and with my labs, it's no problem. I think it's been helping.

As far as Florinef - let's just say, I have a long way to go to convince my

docs to do anything that makes that much sense

Dave

> > >

> > > I'm curious about this too.  Is there any way,

> > without taking a blood test, to

> > > know?  Is it something as anecdotally simple as

> > noting that your blood clots

> > > faster or that it seems to flow slower (say if you

> > prick your finger and notice

> > > how the blood behaves)?  I don't have insurance,

> > so even a " simple " blood test

> > > is $100 or more, so if there was a way to know without

> > the expense, that would

> > > be good to know.

> > >

> > > Bill

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ________________________________

> > > From: inc_100 <no_reply >

> > >

> > > Sent: Thu, August 12, 2010 12:13:57 AM

> > > Subject: How do you know if your blood

> > is thicker

> > >

> > >  

> > > Hello All,

> > >

> > > Just wondering how do we know that our blood is

> > getting thicker ?

> > >

> > > By donating blood how will the blood become thin ?

> > >

> > > Joe

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >       

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Phil, Barb and all others,

So do you think my blood may be thicker and it is causing chest pain ? My

Cardiologist checked up .....did an EchoCardiogram and also a stress test but no

issues. The blood work showed a high (borderline) Homocystiene levels 10.5

(Range <11.4umol/L) and also low Vitamin D - 23 (Range 30 - 100).

I am asked to take B-Complex - B6,B12,Folic - Metenx Brand tablet 1 per day and

also 6000iu of Vit D.

I dont know what my doctor is thinking as he did not comment on what is giving

me this pain.

One important thing is I have been on Testo Cyp injections only for about an

year and was doing about 100- 140mg every 10days and also 2 times 250iu of Hcg

before my T shot. I am also Hypothyroid. So my question is does it cause this

kind of damage with in an year ? Many of us are on TRT for decades...........

I am thinking going back to my doc and get Iron panel, cbc and (HCT), (HGB) and

RBC tests to see what's wrong.

Thanks

Joe

> > > >

> > > > I'm curious about this too.  Is there any

> > way, without taking a blood test, to

> > > >

> > > > know?  Is it something as anecdotally

> > simple as noting that your blood clots

> > > > faster or that it seems to flow slower (say if

> > you prick your finger and notice

> > > >

> > > > how the blood behaves)?  I

> > don't have insurance, so even a " simple " blood

> > > >test

> > > >

> > > > is $100 or more, so if there was a way to know

> > without the expense, that would

> > >

> > > > be good to know.

> > > >

> > > > Bill

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ________________________________

> > > > From: inc_100 <no_reply >

> > > >

> > > > Sent: Thu, August 12, 2010 12:13:57 AM

> > > > Subject: How do you know if your

> > blood is thicker

> > > >

> > > >  

> > > > Hello All,

> > > >

> > > > Just wondering how do we know that our blood is

> > getting thicker ?

> > > >

> > > > By donating blood how will the blood become thin

> > ?

> > > >

> > > > Joe

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >       

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Dave salt is good for you but not table salt only Sea Salt.

http://www.eaec.org/bookstore/books/sywth-excerpt.htm

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Dave <dcbaden@...>

> Subject: Re: How do you know if your blood is thicker

>

> Date: Thursday, August 12, 2010, 1:24 PM

> Phil,

>

> Nothing you say falls on deaf ears with me.  You

> mentioned that before and since then I started sea

> salt.  I also salt everything I eat pretty

> heavily.  I like the taste, and with my labs, it's no

> problem.  I think it's been helping.

>

> As far as Florinef  - let's just say, I have a long

> way to go to convince my docs to do anything that makes that

> much sense

>

> Dave

>

>

> > > >

> > > > I'm curious about this too.  Is there any

> way,

> > > without taking a blood test, to

> > > > know?  Is it something as anecdotally

> simple as

> > > noting that your blood clots

> > > > faster or that it seems to flow slower (say

> if you

> > > prick your finger and notice

> > > > how the blood behaves)?  I don't have

> insurance,

> > > so even a " simple " blood test

> > > > is $100 or more, so if there was a way to

> know without

> > > the expense, that would

> > > > be good to know.

> > > >

> > > > Bill

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ________________________________

> > > > From: inc_100 <no_reply >

> > > >

> > > > Sent: Thu, August 12, 2010 12:13:57 AM

> > > > Subject: How do you know if

> your blood

> > > is thicker

> > > >

> > > >  

> > > > Hello All,

> > > >

> > > > Just wondering how do we know that our blood

> is

> > > getting thicker ?

> > > >

> > > > By donating blood how will the blood become

> thin ?

> > > >

> > > > Joe

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >       

> > > >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

No I am not saying this is your pain I have a lot of pain from lower T levels.

My pain is old injury's and Arthritis.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: inc_100 <no_reply >

> Subject: Re: How do you know if your blood is thicker

>

> Date: Thursday, August 12, 2010, 1:28 PM

> Phil, Barb and all others,

>

> So do you think my blood may be thicker and it is causing

> chest pain ? My Cardiologist checked up .....did an

> EchoCardiogram and also a stress test but no issues. The

> blood work showed a high (borderline) Homocystiene levels

> 10.5 (Range <11.4umol/L) and also low Vitamin D - 23

> (Range 30 - 100).

>

> I am asked to take B-Complex - B6,B12,Folic - Metenx Brand

> tablet 1 per day and also 6000iu of Vit D.

>

> I dont know what my doctor is thinking as he did not

> comment on what is giving me this pain.

>

> One important thing is I have been on Testo Cyp injections

> only for about an year and was doing about 100- 140mg every

> 10days and also 2 times 250iu of Hcg before my T shot. I am

> also Hypothyroid. So my question is does it cause this kind

> of damage with in an year ? Many of us are on TRT for

> decades...........

>

> I am thinking going back to my doc and get Iron panel, cbc

> and (HCT), (HGB) and RBC tests to see what's wrong.

>

> Thanks

> Joe

>

>

>

>

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm curious about this

> too.  Is there any

> > > way, without taking a blood test, to

> > > > >

> > > > > know?  Is it

> something as anecdotally

> > > simple as noting that your blood clots

> > > > > faster or that it seems to flow slower

> (say if

> > > you prick your finger and notice

> > > > >

> > > > > how the blood

> behaves)?  I

> > > don't have insurance, so even

> a " simple " blood

> > > > >test

> > > > >

> > > > > is $100 or more, so if there was a way

> to know

> > > without the expense, that would

> > > >

> > > > > be good to know.

> > > > >

> > > > > Bill

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ________________________________

> > > > > From: inc_100 <no_reply >

> > > > >

> > > > > Sent: Thu, August 12, 2010 12:13:57 AM

> > > > > Subject: How do you know

> if your

> > > blood is thicker

> > > > >

> > > > >  

> > > > > Hello All,

> > > > >

> > > > > Just wondering how do we know that our

> blood is

> > > getting thicker ?

> > > > >

> > > > > By donating blood how will the blood

> become thin

> > > ?

> > > > >

> > > > > Joe

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have

> been

> > > removed]

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >       

> > > >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

It happened to me! I was donating 4 times a year, and then they asked me to

start doing double reds 3 times a year and it would help them out a lot since I

was O negative. After a 1yr 1/2 (5 donations) I felt like crap. I went to the Dr

and they did blood work and found out that I was so low in Iron that they had me

do 3 weeks of Iron theory(1 a wk). Every time they would inject the Iron, my

testicles would burn, would get a bad taste in my mouth and felt nauseous. The

nurse said this was normal. After the 3 wks and for about at year after, I still

wasn't feeling better. The Dr said that my Iron levels where back to normal. I

started having some ED, couldn't empty my bladder completely and waking up to

pee, and having pain in my right testicle and penis. They told me I had a

prostate infection which lasted for 8 mos, but when my symptoms didn't get

better that's when they told me I had Hypogonadism. I think that the Iron

therapy may have started my Hypogonadism, but my GP said it wasn't possible, but

the Urologist said that it was a small chance that it caused it, but more

possible that it was from them mumps?

How do you know if your blood is thicker

> >

> > ÂÂ

> > Hello All,

> >

> > Just wondering how do we know that our blood is getting thicker ?

> >

> > By donating blood how will the blood become thin ?

> >

> > Joe

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I think for most men they never know why they are low.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Pryor <j.pryor@...>

> Subject: RE: How do you know if your blood is thicker

> " ' ' " < >

> Date: Thursday, August 12, 2010, 1:43 PM

> It happened to me! I was donating 4

> times a year, and then they asked me to start doing double

> reds 3 times a year and it would help them out a lot since I

> was O negative. After a 1yr 1/2 (5 donations) I felt like

> crap. I went to the Dr and they did blood work and found out

> that I was so low in Iron that they had me do 3 weeks of

> Iron theory(1 a wk). Every time they would inject the Iron,

> my testicles would burn, would get a bad taste in my mouth

> and felt nauseous. The nurse said this was normal. After the

> 3 wks and for about at year after, I still wasn't feeling

> better. The Dr said that my Iron levels where back to

> normal.  I started having some ED, couldn't empty my

> bladder completely and waking up to pee, and having pain in

> my right testicle and penis. They told me I had a prostate

> infection which lasted for 8 mos, but when my symptoms

> didn't get better that's when they told me I had

> Hypogonadism. I think that the Iron therapy may have started

> my Hypogonadism, but my GP said it wasn't possible, but the

> Urologist said that it was a small chance that it caused it,

> but more possible that it was from them mumps?

>

>

>

> How do you know if your

> blood is thicker

> > >

> > > ﾃã¤

> > > Hello All,

> > >

> > > Just wondering how do we know that our blood is

> getting thicker ?

> > >

> > > By donating blood how will the blood become thin

> ?

> > >

> > > Joe

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I think yes, too much estradiol from TC shots can cause chest pain, because I

believe estradiol narrows your arteries. Testosterone opens them up. Thyroid

opens them up. I didn't know you were diagnosed hypothyroid. Now you've got

another set of labs to balance. I'm learning to juggle thyroid and testosterone

because that's what DH has. Phil juggles even more balls (sorry for the pun

guys!)

Have you had your Free T3, Free T4, reverse T3, and cortisol checked? TSH in

range doesn't mean anything. Free T4 should be close to mid-range, and Free T3

above mid-range, some even go over top of range on their FT3 before they feel

well. Symptoms you're undermedicated are being cold all the time, cold hands

and feet, tired, rough heels, morning basal temp lower then 97.8, afternoon temp

never reaches 98.6, pulse below 72, etc.

Barb

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm curious about this too.  Is there any

> > > way, without taking a blood test, to

> > > > >

> > > > > know?  Is it something as anecdotally

> > > simple as noting that your blood clots

> > > > > faster or that it seems to flow slower (say if

> > > you prick your finger and notice

> > > > >

> > > > > how the blood behaves)?  I

> > > don't have insurance, so even a " simple " blood

> > > > >test

> > > > >

> > > > > is $100 or more, so if there was a way to know

> > > without the expense, that would

> > > >

> > > > > be good to know.

> > > > >

> > > > > Bill

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ________________________________

> > > > > From: inc_100 <no_reply >

> > > > >

> > > > > Sent: Thu, August 12, 2010 12:13:57 AM

> > > > > Subject: How do you know if your

> > > blood is thicker

> > > > >

> > > > >  

> > > > > Hello All,

> > > > >

> > > > > Just wondering how do we know that our blood is

> > > getting thicker ?

> > > > >

> > > > > By donating blood how will the blood become thin

> > > ?

> > > > >

> > > > > Joe

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > removed]

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >       

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Barb,

Yes. I am both Hypothyroid and Hypoganad. I lowered my Test Cyp to 60mg every

week to see if this helps me with lowering my pain. Also, my Free T3, Free T4,

reverse T3 were all good last time about 4 months ago. My new labs are yet to

come. May be Monday. My Cortisol is 13.4 (Range 4.0 - 22.0).

I am not cold all the time, no cold hands and feet, but tired sometimes, no

rough heels, havent checked the temps yet .... morning basal temp lower then

97.8, afternoon temp never reaches 98.6, pulse not so sure.

Also, I will ask my doc to order Iron panel tests and any other test you

recommend. Any recommandations ?

But what do you think of these .......

Homocystiene levels 10.5 (Range <11.4umol/L) and also low Vitamin D - 23 (Range

30 - 100).

I am asked to take B-Complex - B6,B12,Folic - Metenx Brand tablet 1 per day and

also 6000iu of Vit D.

Thanks

Joe

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I'm curious about this too.  Is there any

> > > > way, without taking a blood test, to

> > > > > >

> > > > > > know?  Is it something as anecdotally

> > > > simple as noting that your blood clots

> > > > > > faster or that it seems to flow slower (say if

> > > > you prick your finger and notice

> > > > > >

> > > > > > how the blood behaves)?  I

> > > > don't have insurance, so even a " simple " blood

> > > > > >test

> > > > > >

> > > > > > is $100 or more, so if there was a way to know

> > > > without the expense, that would

> > > > >

> > > > > > be good to know.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Bill

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ________________________________

> > > > > > From: inc_100 <no_reply >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sent: Thu, August 12, 2010 12:13:57 AM

> > > > > > Subject: How do you know if your

> > > > blood is thicker

> > > > > >

> > > > > >  

> > > > > > Hello All,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Just wondering how do we know that our blood is

> > > > getting thicker ?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > By donating blood how will the blood become thin

> > > > ?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Joe

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > > removed]

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >       

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

For an 8 a.m. morning cortisol, that's pretty low, should be greater than 15,

preferably in the 20s. Symptom-wise your thyroid levels sound good.

The standard tests thyroid/adrenal wise are the Free Ts, which you've already

done. Ferritin with an iron panel, Vit D, and B12 are also recommended, and I

think you've already had most of those and supplementing. Taking the vitamins

you're low in and lowering estradiol may lower your homocysteine. You'll know

when you retest.

The weekly TC dose is extremely individual. 100 mg/wk is the standard

recommendation, someone else has posted 40 mg twice a week, and I've got DH on

32 mg/4 days. Sounds like you've got insurance so I'd want to test you on the

third day after your shot, to see how high your levels go and if that's the

cause of your high estradiol. You can also test right before your next shot and

see how low you go. Obviously if you go too low, you have to dose more often.

But there is a limit to how low you can dose, because your peak has to get close

to the top to carry you through the remaining days. You can only figure this

out through trial and error.

Barb

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I'm curious about this too.  Is there any

> > > > > way, without taking a blood test, to

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > know?  Is it something as anecdotally

> > > > > simple as noting that your blood clots

> > > > > > > faster or that it seems to flow slower (say if

> > > > > you prick your finger and notice

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > how the blood behaves)?  I

> > > > > don't have insurance, so even a " simple " blood

> > > > > > >test

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > is $100 or more, so if there was a way to know

> > > > > without the expense, that would

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > be good to know.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Bill

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ________________________________

> > > > > > > From: inc_100 <no_reply >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Sent: Thu, August 12, 2010 12:13:57 AM

> > > > > > > Subject: How do you know if your

> > > > > blood is thicker

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >  

> > > > > > > Hello All,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Just wondering how do we know that our blood is

> > > > > getting thicker ?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > By donating blood how will the blood become thin

> > > > > ?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Joe

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > > > removed]

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >       

> > > > > >

> > > > > >