Re: Estradiol levels....ques.

February 9, 2010

Endo's are not good Dr.'s for men's hormones and most Dr.'s will not test or

treat Estradiol levels in men if your husband is over 40 over weight and dose

not have involuntary nocturnal erections that appear during REM (Rapid Eye

Movement) sleep. I am betting his levels of Estradiol are high some men when to

high lose there sex life and have ED problems. Here is a link about this and

Aromatase Inhibition means lowering Estradiol.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174

http://www.medibolics.com/ArimidexBoostsTestosterone.htm

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2008/nov2008_Dangers-of-Excess-Estrogen-in-the-Ag\

ing-Male_01.htm

http://www.smart-drugs.com/ias-estrogen.htm

http://www.griffinmedical.com/male_hormone_modulation_therapy.html

Read the above links and you can try giving the top 2 to your Endo but I don't

feel it will help.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: mysticgrl77 <mystic_pizza7@...>

> Subject: Estradiol levels....ques.

>

> Date: Tuesday, February 9, 2010, 3:26 PM

> I was wondering if my husbands Endo

> is doing the right thing. She gave him androgel for his low

> T. He didnt start it yet but I was told here that you should

> get your estradiol levels checked first because if high and

> treated they could bring the Testosterone levels up. Has

> anyones Dr. had this done first before starting on the

> testosterone-therapy? Im wondering if my husband endo is

> doing this right. Do most endos/drs. look into Estradiol

> levels before staring on TRT? From what i read this seems

> important. Would appreciate any replys.

> Thanks,

> Mysticgrl

>

> ------------------------------------

>

February 11, 2010

Did he come up why his testosterone levels are low or was he was like most Dr's

too lazy to look for other reason just to condem him to TRT when most likely it

was something completely different. Please contact for furher information.

>

> I was wondering if my husbands Endo is doing the right thing. She gave him

androgel for his low T. He didnt start it yet but I was told here that you

should get your estradiol levels checked first because if high and treated they

could bring the Testosterone levels up. Has anyones Dr. had this done first

before starting on the testosterone-therapy? Im wondering if my husband endo is

doing this right. Do most endos/drs. look into Estradiol levels before staring

on TRT? From what i read this seems important. Would appreciate any replys.

> Thanks,

> Mysticgrl

>

February 12, 2010

And NOTHING anyone can do will replace the fallen Leydig cells of primary

hypogonadism.

Be well!

Regards,

Crisler, DO

Anti-Aging Medicine

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February 12, 2010

I have yet to see T elevated significantly in the clinical setting from

estrogen control only. The man may feel much better, and that is very

important of course, but as far as numbers go, it just doesn't happen.

I would never call receiving TRT being " condemned " . If a guy is low enough

for an Endo to prescribe, he is LOW. NOTHING you, or anyone else, is going

to do will elevate T from the 200's to the 800's without administering TRT.

We should be appreciating the Endo's who have finally gotten it, not

disparaging them for proprietary purposes.

Be well!

Regards,

Crisler, DO

Anti-Aging Medicine

The information contained in this message is intended only for the personal

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February 12, 2010

DR J I have clinical documentation of ones that have got up to upper 750+ range

with out TRT. I have found mechanism at the cellular level that for some are the

switches that can act as amplifiers by manipulating cAMP. Even had one young guy

23 that had high LH for months clincally, who appeared primary and was on TRT

for 2 years. Came off TRT and I worked with him for 8 weeks now T is in the 650

and completely normal with just manipulation of proper nutrient ratio's. Again

these are rare cases but are documents clincally.

I was always one to NEVER SAY NEVER. Where there is a will there is a way.

>

> I have yet to see T elevated significantly in the clinical setting from

> estrogen control only. The man may feel much better, and that is very

> important of course, but as far as numbers go, it just doesn't happen.

>

> I would never call receiving TRT being " condemned " . If a guy is low enough

> for an Endo to prescribe, he is LOW. NOTHING you, or anyone else, is going

> to do will elevate T from the 200's to the 800's without administering TRT.

>

> We should be appreciating the Endo's who have finally gotten it, not

> disparaging them for proprietary purposes.

>

> Be well!

>

> Regards,

>

> Crisler, DO

>

> Anti-Aging Medicine

>

> The information contained in this message is intended only for the personal

> and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, and is protected by

> state and federal law. If the reader of this message is not the intended

> recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the

> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this

> document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or

> copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this

> communication in error, please notify us immediately, and delete the

> original message. We would certainly do the same for you.

>

February 12, 2010

I'd suspect there are other causes at work. Maybe even lab variation due to

normal pulsatile production of hormones.

Then all the other stuff you were doing made him feel better. Hey, that diet

and exercise thing sometimes takes hold! LOL

But we were talking about simply limiting E to take a man from low to

high-normal. Doesn't happen that way.

Be well!

Regards,

Crisler, DO

Anti-Aging Medicine

The information contained in this message is intended only for the personal

and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, and is protected by

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From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of hardasnails1973

Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 8:25 AM

Subject: Re: Estradiol levels....ques.

DR J I have clinical documentation of ones that have got up to upper 750+

range with out TRT. I have found mechanism at the cellular level that for

some are the switches that can act as amplifiers by manipulating cAMP. Even

had one young guy 23 that had high LH for months clincally, who appeared

primary and was on TRT for 2 years. Came off TRT and I worked with him for 8

weeks now T is in the 650 and completely normal with just manipulation of

proper nutrient ratio's. Again these are rare cases but are documents

clincally.

I was always one to NEVER SAY NEVER. Where there is a will there is a way.

>

> I have yet to see T elevated significantly in the clinical setting from

> estrogen control only. The man may feel much better, and that is very

> important of course, but as far as numbers go, it just doesn't happen.

>

> I would never call receiving TRT being " condemned " . If a guy is low enough

> for an Endo to prescribe, he is LOW. NOTHING you, or anyone else, is going

> to do will elevate T from the 200's to the 800's without administering

TRT.

>

> We should be appreciating the Endo's who have finally gotten it, not

> disparaging them for proprietary purposes.

>

> Be well!

>

> Regards,

>

> Crisler, DO

>

> Anti-Aging Medicine

>

> The information contained in this message is intended only for the

personal

> and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, and is protected by

> state and federal law. If the reader of this message is not the intended

> recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the

> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this

> document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or

> copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this

> communication in error, please notify us immediately, and delete the

> original message. We would certainly do the same for you.

>

February 12, 2010

,

You said, " NOTHING...will elevate T from the 200's to the 800's without

administering TRT. " I can appreciate that this is the case with primary

hypogonadism. But if my low Test., low thyroid and possible other hormonal

deficits are due to hypopituitarism, keeping needed hormones from activating

release of test., etc. Wouldn't removal of pituitary adenomas, if they are

present, free up the test. mechanism again?

Thanks,

P.S.--I would certainly give TRT a try, normally, but my PSA hasn't been

" normal " for about 3-4 years, and a year ago it shot up to 20--with a negative

biopsy--and has only now come down to 11.9 (late Oct) and 11.09 (early Feb). My

urologist is pleased that it went down, but suggests it may never return to

" normal. " I'm 63, trying like hell to get down significantly from 275 while

taking 2-3 meds that " can " cause weight gain and dealing with Diabetes2, apnea,

moderately low thyroid, etc.

________________________________________________________________________________\

_______

>

> I have yet to see T elevated significantly in the clinical setting from

> estrogen control only. The man may feel much better, and that is very

> important of course, but as far as numbers go, it just doesn't happen.

>

February 12, 2010

I agree armidex is not a form of TRT in any means and that results will be short

lived and long term. Amazing these most cases are from people that do work out,

but their Healthy diets are the most unbalanced I have ever seen. So yes 100% to

your statement below proper nutrient balance was the key in these as well as all

other cases that where successfully restarted. By using nutrition and

lifestyles isolating the causes (thyroid, adrenal , gut imbalances, toxcity,

sleep issues) results in a higher success rate when restarts are tried or some

times are not even needed. Estrogen pollution is probably the minority causes.

Tell you what if you want to help your clients. Simply giving them a Heel detox

kit every person walk through that door and vitamin D from biotics will be a

great start!!

All the hundreds of OAT i have ran people are walking sewer factory.

No wonder their hormones are messed up..

> >

> > I have yet to see T elevated significantly in the clinical setting from

> > estrogen control only. The man may feel much better, and that is very

> > important of course, but as far as numbers go, it just doesn't happen.

> >

> > I would never call receiving TRT being " condemned " . If a guy is low enough

> > for an Endo to prescribe, he is LOW. NOTHING you, or anyone else, is going

> > to do will elevate T from the 200's to the 800's without administering

> TRT.

> >

> > We should be appreciating the Endo's who have finally gotten it, not

> > disparaging them for proprietary purposes.

> >

> > Be well!

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Crisler, DO

> >

> > Anti-Aging Medicine

> >

> > The information contained in this message is intended only for the

> personal

> > and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, and is protected by

> > state and federal law. If the reader of this message is not the intended

> > recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the

> > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this

> > document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or

> > copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this

> > communication in error, please notify us immediately, and delete the

> > original message. We would certainly do the same for you.

> >

February 12, 2010

>

> ,

>

> You said, " NOTHING...will elevate T from the 200's to the 800's without

administering TRT. " I can appreciate that this is the case with primary

hypogonadism. But if my low Test., low thyroid and possible other hormonal

deficits are due to hypopituitarism, keeping needed hormones from activating

release of test., etc. Wouldn't removal of pituitary adenomas, if they are

present, free up the test. mechanism again?

>

> Thanks,

>

,

I agree with you. It is an overgeneralization to say that NOTHING will

elevate T from the 200's to the 800's without administering TRT.

I am proof of that. My hypogonadism, which used to produce tests below

200, is apparently not primary. Though I did have TRT for years, I went off of

that and then onto Arimidex alone (with no TRT whatsoever). For the past

several years, I have tested between 400 and 800 on this regimen.

Bob

February 12, 2010

Hi Bob good your still doing well I have posted about you all over the place and

I must admit some men that are not to low do better on arimidex. But they are

at levels above 400 and get up into the 600's taking arimidex. But the men are

older men.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: rtolz <no_reply >

> Subject: Re: Estradiol levels....ques.

>

> Date: Friday, February 12, 2010, 11:35 AM

>

> >

> > ,

> >

> > You said, " NOTHING...will elevate T from the 200's to

> the 800's without administering TRT. " I can appreciate

> that this is the case with primary hypogonadism. But

> if my low Test., low thyroid and possible other hormonal

> deficits are due to hypopituitarism, keeping needed hormones

> from activating release of test., etc. Wouldn't

> removal of pituitary adenomas, if they are present, free up

> the test. mechanism again?

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

>

> ,

>

> I agree with you. It is an

> overgeneralization to say that NOTHING will elevate T from

> the 200's to the 800's without administering TRT.

>

> I am proof of that. My

> hypogonadism, which used to produce tests below 200, is

> apparently not primary. Though I did have TRT for

> years, I went off of that and then onto Arimidex alone (with

> no TRT whatsoever). For the past several years, I have

> tested between 400 and 800 on this regimen.

>

> Bob

>

> ------------------------------------

>

February 12, 2010

>

> Hi Bob good your still doing well I have posted about you all over the place

and I must admit some men that are not to low do better on arimidex. But they

are at levels above 400 and get up into the 600's taking arimidex. But the men

are older men.

Hi Phil,

Older is relative, right? I'll be hitting 60 in July, for the record.

Bob

February 12, 2010

OK Bob but yes I see this in older men once in a wile I will get a younger man

in his 20's to 30's that is over weight and never gets any exercise and they are

high and there diet is full of E's like soy and they change there diet and do

some DIM and there T levels come back up.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: rtolz <no_reply >

> Subject: Re: Estradiol levels....ques.

>

> Date: Friday, February 12, 2010, 4:08 PM

>

> >

> > Hi Bob good your still doing well I have posted about

> you all over the place and I must admit some men that are

> not to low do better on arimidex. But they are at

> levels above 400 and get up into the 600's taking

> arimidex. But the men are older men.

>

> Hi Phil,

>

> Older is relative, right?

> I'll be hitting 60 in July, for the record.

>

> Bob

>

> ------------------------------------

>

February 12, 2010

Bob

Did your symptoms completely clear up. It is just extremely rare to find a

person that has not experieced any relapse of symptoms on just adex alone.

Unless they where high testosterone and just e2 needed to be adjusted in this

case I could see that estrogen manipulation could be a beneficial factor

> >

> > ,

> >

> > You said, " NOTHING...will elevate T from the 200's to the 800's without

administering TRT. " I can appreciate that this is the case with primary

hypogonadism. But if my low Test., low thyroid and possible other hormonal

deficits are due to hypopituitarism, keeping needed hormones from activating

release of test., etc. Wouldn't removal of pituitary adenomas, if they are

present, free up the test. mechanism again?

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

>

> ,

>

> I agree with you. It is an overgeneralization to say that NOTHING will

elevate T from the 200's to the 800's without administering TRT.

>

> I am proof of that. My hypogonadism, which used to produce tests below

200, is apparently not primary. Though I did have TRT for years, I went off of

that and then onto Arimidex alone (with no TRT whatsoever). For the past

several years, I have tested between 400 and 800 on this regimen.

>

> Bob

>

February 13, 2010

Jim-

OOPS! Thanks for pointing out my mistake.

I completely forgot to provide that HPTA-Restarts can definitely take a man

from very low to very nice.

Be well!

Regards,

Crisler, DO

Anti-Aging Medicine

The information contained in this message is intended only for the personal

and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, and is protected by

state and federal law. If the reader of this message is not the intended

recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the

intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this

document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or

copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this

communication in error, please notify us immediately, and delete the

original message. We would certainly do the same for you.

February 13, 2010

HAN let's not confuse using a substance to elevate T with being " cured " .

D-Aspartate may switch cAMP but it is not permanent. Benefits dissipate a

few days status post cessation of the supplement. I spent an evening reading

the literature on it, and I have decided to stay from it.

Be well!

Regards,

Crisler, DO

Anti-Aging Medicine

The information contained in this message is intended only for the personal

and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, and is protected by

state and federal law. If the reader of this message is not the intended

recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the

intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this

document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or

copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this

communication in error, please notify us immediately, and delete the

original message. We would certainly do the same for you.

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of hardasnails1973

Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 8:25 AM

Subject: Re: Estradiol levels....ques.

DR J I have clinical documentation of ones that have got up to upper 750+

range with out TRT. I have found mechanism at the cellular level that for

some are the switches that can act as amplifiers by manipulating cAMP. Even

had one young guy 23 that had high LH for months clincally, who appeared

primary and was on TRT for 2 years. Came off TRT and I worked with him for 8

weeks now T is in the 650 and completely normal with just manipulation of

proper nutrient ratio's. Again these are rare cases but are documents

clincally.

I was always one to NEVER SAY NEVER. Where there is a will there is a way.

>

> I have yet to see T elevated significantly in the clinical setting from

> estrogen control only. The man may feel much better, and that is very

> important of course, but as far as numbers go, it just doesn't happen.

>

> I would never call receiving TRT being " condemned " . If a guy is low enough

> for an Endo to prescribe, he is LOW. NOTHING you, or anyone else, is going

> to do will elevate T from the 200's to the 800's without administering

TRT.

>

> We should be appreciating the Endo's who have finally gotten it, not

> disparaging them for proprietary purposes.

>

> Be well!

>

> Regards,

>

> Crisler, DO

>

> Anti-Aging Medicine

>

> The information contained in this message is intended only for the

personal

> and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, and is protected by

> state and federal law. If the reader of this message is not the intended

> recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the

> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this

> document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or

> copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this

> communication in error, please notify us immediately, and delete the

> original message. We would certainly do the same for you.

>

February 13, 2010

I do not use substances like those but rather getting the right combinations of

nutrients usually does the trick provided that the imbalance is clincally

explained or obvious in their nutritonal pattern