Guest guest Posted July 28, 2010 Report Share Posted July 28, 2010 , Can you convert your Ostradiol units into pg/ml so I can tell if your levels are to high. Are you doing 90 mgs a day of HC if so this is way to much your going to shut down your adrenals and get Cushing's Syndrome read this link. http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=12 & t=15462 Here is a FAQ's about Adrenals and taking HC. http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=12 & t=256 Is your Sodium called on your labs S-Natrium this can happen or be lab error. As for your gel some times they stop working if you have a Thyroid problem your skin can become to thick and the gels don't get through your skin. Or if you put on the gel first and do labs you can spike up your labs. I tell men do a good shower the morning of labs then do your labs first and put the gel on after. Some men need to switch to shots when levels fall off on gels. Co-Moderator Phil > From: Gibcast <gibcast@...> > Subject: Latest bloodwork! > > Date: Wednesday, July 28, 2010, 10:23 AM > So, I do a " backup check " with my > first treating specialist for my Hypothyroid-symptoms back > since 1997 every now and then. Even if I see Dr. Hertoghe at > the moment. Cause Hertoghe is 2 hours away by plane and this > doc is close to where I live, so... They are both > outstanding hormone docs! I only follow Dr. Hertoghes plan. > I just " double check " with the local guy. Anyway, here are > my latest labs while on: > 2 pumps Testosterone gel 10% daily (2 grams gel, 200 mg > testosterone total)35 mg DHEA every other day30 mg HC90 mg > ERFA Thyroid (1 & 1/2 grains) > Blood results from 21st of July 2010:http://www.nightrangerweb.net/health/DSCF2809.JPG > I must say I am a bit shocked my S-Testosterone is that > low!?!? Last time I checked it, while taking only 1 pump of > gel daily, it was twice as high. HMMMMMMMM. Anything else > anyone has to add? > I also have NO IDEA how my Sodium can be above the top > range when I did NOT take ANY sea salt on the morning I drew > the blood. I just had two small cups of water, and my HC, > that's all. Like, WHAT? Lab-error or what? I've usually seen > LOW-RANGE sodium (136, or 137) while taking 1/2 to 1 tea > spoon sea salt daily, and doing the bood draw in the > EVENING, so... I just don't get why Sodium could be so high > in the MORNING!?!?!? Did my aldosterone suddenly start > working much better or what??? > > Best Regards, in Norway > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2010 Report Share Posted July 28, 2010 Thanks for the reply Phil! Opera always messer up messages. It should be 30 mg HC daily. I do have a moon face but it could be from hypo as well as low potassium as we see on these labs. Yes Natrium means Sodium. Weird electrolyte labs! I want to do them again asap! from the rt3/ndt groups taught me to do electrolyte labs fasting! I put my gel on after wakeup, around 11 am or 13 pm. Sometimes I forget it ad put it on later. I like to imagine I feel better seter I apply it. I rub it in with 10-20 strokes on my shoulders and a lil down on my arms. Initially Hertoghe told me to put it on my forehead but it made my skin wrinkled and 2 pumps wont fit in my forehead anyway so... I am not sure about my skin. I am skinny everywhere except belly, lately manboobs (testogel?) and thighs. Does it matter when I apply the gel, health-wise? I never apply it before drawing blood. Actually I was told by Hertoghe to apply it in the evening 3 nights in a row before drawing blood for testing testosterone! Dunno how to convert the units but it looks like its in the high range! Sendt fra min iPhone Den 28. juli 2010 kl. 18.38 skrev philip georgian <pmgamer18@...>: , Can you convert your Ostradiol units into pg/ml so I can tell if your levels are to high. Are you doing 90 mgs a day of HC if so this is way to much your going to shut down your adrenals and get Cushing's Syndrome read this link. http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=12 & t=15462 Here is a FAQ's about Adrenals and taking HC. http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=12 & t=256 Is your Sodium called on your labs S-Natrium this can happen or be lab error. As for your gel some times they stop working if you have a Thyroid problem your skin can become to thick and the gels don't get through your skin. Or if you put on the gel first and do labs you can spike up your labs. I tell men do a good shower the morning of labs then do your labs first and put the gel on after. Some men need to switch to shots when levels fall off on gels. Co-Moderator Phil > From: Gibcast <gibcast@...> > Subject: Latest bloodwork! > > Date: Wednesday, July 28, 2010, 10:23 AM > So, I do a " backup check " with my > first treating specialist for my Hypothyroid-symptoms back > since 1997 every now and then. Even if I see Dr. Hertoghe at > the moment. Cause Hertoghe is 2 hours away by plane and this > doc is close to where I live, so... They are both > outstanding hormone docs! I only follow Dr. Hertoghes plan. > I just " double check " with the local guy. Anyway, here are > my latest labs while on: > 2 pumps Testosterone gel 10% daily (2 grams gel, 200 mg > testosterone total)35 mg DHEA every other day30 mg HC90 mg > ERFA Thyroid (1 & 1/2 grains) > Blood results from 21st of July 2010:http://www.nightrangerweb.net/health/DSCF2809.JPG > I must say I am a bit shocked my S-Testosterone is that > low!?!? Last time I checked it, while taking only 1 pump of > gel daily, it was twice as high. HMMMMMMMM. Anything else > anyone has to add? > I also have NO IDEA how my Sodium can be above the top > range when I did NOT take ANY sea salt on the morning I drew > the blood. I just had two small cups of water, and my HC, > that's all. Like, WHAT? Lab-error or what? I've usually seen > LOW-RANGE sodium (136, or 137) while taking 1/2 to 1 tea > spoon sea salt daily, and doing the bood draw in the > EVENING, so... I just don't get why Sodium could be so high > in the MORNING!?!?!? Did my aldosterone suddenly start > working much better or what??? > > Best Regards, in Norway > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2010 Report Share Posted July 28, 2010 Well one needs to fast when testing aldosterone and renin levels. I all ways drink my water with 1/2 a tsp full of Sea Salt in it and I drink a lot of water the morning of labs so I am not Dehigedreated this makes your blood labs look to thick. I never get high levels of sodium might be a lab error. http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=12 & t=15453 Co-Moderator Phil > > > From: Gibcast <gibcast@...> > > Subject: Latest bloodwork! > > > > Date: Wednesday, July 28, 2010, 10:23 AM > > So, I do a " backup check " with my > > first treating specialist for my Hypothyroid-symptoms > back > > since 1997 every now and then. Even if I see Dr. > Hertoghe at > > the moment. Cause Hertoghe is 2 hours away by plane > and this > > doc is close to where I live, so... They are both > > outstanding hormone docs! I only follow Dr. Hertoghes > plan. > > I just " double check " with the local guy. Anyway, here > are > > my latest labs while on: > > 2 pumps Testosterone gel 10% daily (2 grams gel, 200 > mg > > testosterone total)35 mg DHEA every other day30 mg > HC90 mg > > ERFA Thyroid (1 & 1/2 grains) > > Blood results from 21st of July 2010:http://www.nightrangerweb.net/health/DSCF2809.JPG > > I must say I am a bit shocked my S-Testosterone is > that > > low!?!? Last time I checked it, while taking only 1 > pump of > > gel daily, it was twice as high. HMMMMMMMM. Anything > else > > anyone has to add? > > I also have NO IDEA how my Sodium can be above the > top > > range when I did NOT take ANY sea salt on the morning > I drew > > the blood. I just had two small cups of water, and my > HC, > > that's all. Like, WHAT? Lab-error or what? I've > usually seen > > LOW-RANGE sodium (136, or 137) while taking 1/2 to 1 > tea > > spoon sea salt daily, and doing the bood draw in the > > EVENING, so... I just don't get why Sodium could be so > high > > in the MORNING!?!?!? Did my aldosterone suddenly > start > > working much better or what??? > > > > Best Regards, in Norway > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2010 Report Share Posted July 28, 2010 Yeah but we shouldn't drink salted water before testing serum sodium! :pI have messed around a lot with sea salt, 1 to 2 tea spoons daily. My serum sodium was pretty stable at 144-145 taking 1+ tea spoon daily. Now it's down to 136-137 which I guess is a bit too low, taking 1/2 tea spoon daily. Electrolytes also change fast, so I guess it's impossible to know at all times what they look like. I have had a lot of skipped heart beats today, could be related to potassium/sodium. Phil, do you know why my testosterone has gotten lower? It was twice as high taking 1 pump daily. Now getting lower. It's weird. I don't think my skin is that thick, but... It's weird that it started to rise then boom, down!? Wonder if I could find a converter for estradiol unites online? > > > From: Gibcast <gibcast@...> > > Subject: Latest bloodwork! > > > > Date: Wednesday, July 28, 2010, 10:23 AM > > So, I do a " backup check " with my > > first treating specialist for my Hypothyroid-symptoms > back > > since 1997 every now and then. Even if I see Dr. > Hertoghe at > > the moment. Cause Hertoghe is 2 hours away by plane > and this > > doc is close to where I live, so... They are both > > outstanding hormone docs! I only follow Dr. Hertoghes > plan. > > I just " double check " with the local guy. Anyway, here > are > > my latest labs while on: > > 2 pumps Testosterone gel 10% daily (2 grams gel, 200 > mg > > testosterone total)35 mg DHEA every other day30 mg > HC90 mg > > ERFA Thyroid (1 & 1/2 grains) > > Blood results from 21st of July 2010:http://www.nightrangerweb.net/health/DSCF2809.JPG > > I must say I am a bit shocked my S-Testosterone is > that > > low!?!? Last time I checked it, while taking only 1 > pump of > > gel daily, it was twice as high. HMMMMMMMM. Anything > else > > anyone has to add? > > I also have NO IDEA how my Sodium can be above the > top > > range when I did NOT take ANY sea salt on the morning > I drew > > the blood. I just had two small cups of water, and my > HC, > > that's all. Like, WHAT? Lab-error or what? I've > usually seen > > LOW-RANGE sodium (136, or 137) while taking 1/2 to 1 > tea > > spoon sea salt daily, and doing the bood draw in the > > EVENING, so... I just don't get why Sodium could be so > high > > in the MORNING!?!?!? Did my aldosterone suddenly > start > > working much better or what??? > > > > Best Regards, in Norway > > > > > >Â Â Â Â Â > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2010 Report Share Posted July 28, 2010 Some times the Compounding Pharmacy mixes it wrong you are on a Compounding Testosterone cream or is it made by a Drug Co. like Androgel and Testim are made here. I stopped using them yrs ago my levels kept going down this happens for some reason don't know why. Everyone the has this problem they switch to shots. I can't find a site that has you units for converting into pg/ml. But from what I know about labs ranges with Estradiol at the upper end of the range it's to high for most men. My labs range is 13 to 54 pg/ml most men need to be at 20 pg/ml so going by this you might be to high. Co-Moderator Phil > > > > > > > From: Gibcast <gibcast@...> > > > > Subject: Latest bloodwork! > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, July 28, 2010, 10:23 AM > > > > So, I do a " backup check " with my > > > > first treating specialist for my > Hypothyroid-symptoms > > > back > > > > since 1997 every now and then. Even if I see Dr. > > > Hertoghe at > > > > the moment. Cause Hertoghe is 2 hours away by > plane > > > and this > > > > doc is close to where I live, so... They are > both > > > > outstanding hormone docs! I only follow Dr. > Hertoghes > > > plan. > > > > I just " double check " with the local guy. Anyway, > here > > > are > > > > my latest labs while on: > > > > 2 pumps Testosterone gel 10% daily (2 grams gel, > 200 > > > mg > > > > testosterone total)35 mg DHEA every other day30 > mg > > > HC90 mg > > > > ERFA Thyroid (1 & 1/2 grains) > > > > Blood results from 21st of July 2010:http://www.nightrangerweb.net/health/DSCF2809.JPG > > > > I must say I am a bit shocked my S-Testosterone > is > > > that > > > > low!?!? Last time I checked it, while taking only > 1 > > > pump of > > > > gel daily, it was twice as high. HMMMMMMMM. > Anything > > > else > > > > anyone has to add? > > > > I also have NO IDEA how my Sodium can be above > the > > > top > > > > range when I did NOT take ANY sea salt on the > morning > > > I drew > > > > the blood. I just had two small cups of water, > and my > > > HC, > > > > that's all. Like, WHAT? Lab-error or what? I've > > > usually seen > > > > LOW-RANGE sodium (136, or 137) while taking 1/2 > to 1 > > > tea > > > > spoon sea salt daily, and doing the bood draw in > the > > > > EVENING, so... I just don't get why Sodium could > be so > > > high > > > > in the MORNING!?!?!? Did my aldosterone suddenly > > > start > > > > working much better or what??? > > > > > > > > Best Regards, in Norway > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2010 Report Share Posted July 29, 2010 I love Thierre Hertogue MD. I have practically memorized all of his lectures. I love his books, particularly the Hormone Handbook. It is pricey (about $400) but completely worth the price. About half the book are excellent references, organized by hormone and subject. He was going to become a psychiatrist. He even was in a psychiatry residency. But there were so many hormonal problems in psychiatric patients that he decided to leave psychiatry and stay in endocrinology to address mental and health problems from the specialty his family is famous for. I told him he should have stayed in psychiatry since I consider endocrinology a subset of the knowledge needed in psychiatry. But it does take a lot of work to do the research and study that he does in modern endocrinology. Creating the Hormone Handbook first edition took nearly 24-hours of work a day for five years. My upper limit for insulin is 69 pmol/L. Higher levels indicate the presence of insulin resistance. My lower limit for SHBG in a male adult is 20 nmol/L. Lower levels may indicate the presence of insulin resistance. The lipid panel should include triglycerides in addition to cholesterol and fractional cholesterol levels. The reason is that this would help determine the presence of and one cause of insulin resistance - suboptimal lipid metabolism. I'm sure Thierre would tell you that he considers that at a Vitamin B12 level of 405.90 pmol/L, neuron demyelination starts to happen. Thus, this level is where B12 starts to become low. Folic acid artificially raises B12 levels. Thus, the point it is too low and causes neuron demyelination becomes higher as folic acid levels increase. Electrolytes are usually tightly controlled. When they are out of range, someone seriously is wrong. The most common reason a person's sodium is high is dehydration. A Blood Urea Nitrogen and Serum Creatinine level would be helpful in determining this. Usually Thierre Hertogue would instruct patients to drink 1 to 1.5 liters of water at least 30-45 minutes before a morning lab test to reduce the risk of dehydration from sleeping all night. A TSH > 1.0 uIU/mL generally indicates the brain is requesting more thyroid hormone. My lower limit for Free T4 from a mental health perspective is 15.44 ng/dL My lower limit for Free T3 from a mental health perspective is 5.08 pmol/L A Total T4 and Total T3 would be useful in helping determine dosing when taking desiccated thyroid. Generally Thierre Hertogue would want the total in addition to the free thyroid levels unless one also knows the levels of the binding proteins. My upper limit for a non-stressed, resting, no previous day exercise morning Cortisol in an adult is 607 nmol/L. If one sees a higher level then the question becomes why is that person under stress? Best, Dr. no Any statement I make on this site is for educational purposes only and will change as medical knowledge progresses. It does not constitute medical advice, does not substitute for proper medical evaluation from physician, does not create a doctor/patient relationship or liability. If you would like medical advice, please ask your doctor. Thank you. > > So, I do a " backup check " with my first treating specialist for my Hypothyroid-symptoms back since 1997 every now and then. Even if I see Dr. Hertoghe at the moment. Cause Hertoghe is 2 hours away by plane and this doc is close to where I live, so... They are both outstanding hormone docs! I only follow Dr. Hertoghes plan. I just " double check " with the local guy. Anyway, here are my latest labs while on: > 2 pumps Testosterone gel 10% daily (2 grams gel, 200 mg testosterone total)35 mg DHEA every other day30 mg HC90 mg ERFA Thyroid (1 & 1/2 grains) > Blood results from 21st of July 2010:http://www.nightrangerweb.net/health/DSCF2809.JPG > I must say I am a bit shocked my S-Testosterone is that low!?!? Last time I checked it, while taking only 1 pump of gel daily, it was twice as high. HMMMMMMMM. Anything else anyone has to add? > I also have NO IDEA how my Sodium can be above the top range when I did NOT take ANY sea salt on the morning I drew the blood. I just had two small cups of water, and my HC, that's all. Like, WHAT? Lab-error or what? I've usually seen LOW-RANGE sodium (136, or 137) while taking 1/2 to 1 tea spoon sea salt daily, and doing the bood draw in the EVENING, so... I just don't get why Sodium could be so high in the MORNING!?!?!? Did my aldosterone suddenly start working much better or what??? > > Best Regards, in Norway > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2010 Report Share Posted July 30, 2010 I use " Liposomal 10% testosterone gel " which I believe is compounded, but it's extremely expensive. I usually pay $400 USD for 2 containers. They last like... I don't know... 4-6 weeks each? I am not sure. But anyway... How can they mix it wrong when they specialize in this, and everything looks so professional? And it's so expensive? Is it dangerous to have a high estradiol? And why do I feel my testicles getting smaller after being on testosteorne gel since May? I also notice I have about 70% less ejaculate. I mean, shouldn't the gel improve my health rather than making it worse? I never had ANY problems with erections, and my testis always had a good size, and I always had a lot of ejaculate. I don't get this!!! T. > > > > > > > From: Gibcast <gibcast@...> > > > > Subject: Latest bloodwork! > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, July 28, 2010, 10:23 AM > > > > So, I do a " backup check " with my > > > > first treating specialist for my > Hypothyroid-symptoms > > > back > > > > since 1997 every now and then. Even if I see Dr. > > > Hertoghe at > > > > the moment. Cause Hertoghe is 2 hours away by > plane > > > and this > > > > doc is close to where I live, so... They are > both > > > > outstanding hormone docs! I only follow Dr. > Hertoghes > > > plan. > > > > I just " double check " with the local guy. Anyway, > here > > > are > > > > my latest labs while on: > > > > 2 pumps Testosterone gel 10% daily (2 grams gel, > 200 > > > mg > > > > testosterone total)35 mg DHEA every other day30 > mg > > > HC90 mg > > > > ERFA Thyroid (1 & 1/2 grains) > > > > Blood results from 21st of July 2010:http://www.nightrangerweb.net/health/DSCF2809.JPG > > > > I must say I am a bit shocked my S-Testosterone > is > > > that > > > > low!?!? Last time I checked it, while taking only > 1 > > > pump of > > > > gel daily, it was twice as high. HMMMMMMMM. > Anything > > > else > > > > anyone has to add? > > > > I also have NO IDEA how my Sodium can be above > the > > > top > > > > range when I did NOT take ANY sea salt on the > morning > > > I drew > > > > the blood. I just had two small cups of water, > and my > > > HC, > > > > that's all. Like, WHAT? Lab-error or what? I've > > > usually seen > > > > LOW-RANGE sodium (136, or 137) while taking 1/2 > to 1 > > > tea > > > > spoon sea salt daily, and doing the bood draw in > the > > > > EVENING, so... I just don't get why Sodium could > be so > > > high > > > > in the MORNING!?!?!? Did my aldosterone suddenly > > > start > > > > working much better or what??? > > > > > > > > Best Regards, in Norway > > > > > > > > > > > >Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2010 Report Share Posted July 30, 2010 In doing a search on Terosterol Liposomal Gel all I can find it links about it getting on the women and kids and there problems that they had. I do know of a lot of men on gels that there levels started going down and they needed to switch to shots. Don't go by one set of labs on this labs mess up all the time. Having high Estradiol levels are not good they make men feel dam bad. It will kill your sex life make you feel anxiety and panic problems. Some men can't sleep with high levels. As for your Testis as you take Testosterone your brain sees this in your blood and slows down sending the LH and FSH messages to your Testis to make it and they stop working and get smaller. To over come this we use HCG go to Dr. 's site www.allthingsmale.com and Read his HCG Update. On gels men do 250 IU shots of HCG every 3 days to keep there Testis working. You are paying a lot of money for this gel dose your health care plain pay for this if not I would switch to shots you can do 20 100mg shots/wk. for about $120.00 by using 200mgs/ml of Testosterone cypionate. Co-Moderator Phil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Gibcast <gibcast@...> > > > > > > > > Subject: Latest bloodwork! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, July 28, 2010, 10:23 AM > > > > > > > > So, I do a " backup check " with my > > > > > > > > first treating specialist for my > > > Hypothyroid-symptoms > > > > > > > back > > > > > > > > since 1997 every now and then. Even if I see > Dr. > > > > > > > Hertoghe at > > > > > > > > the moment. Cause Hertoghe is 2 hours away > by > > > plane > > > > > > > and this > > > > > > > > doc is close to where I live, so... They > are > > > both > > > > > > > > outstanding hormone docs! I only follow Dr. > > > Hertoghes > > > > > > > plan. > > > > > > > > I just " double check " with the local guy. > Anyway, > > > here > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > my latest labs while on: > > > > > > > > 2 pumps Testosterone gel 10% daily (2 grams > gel, > > > 200 > > > > > > > mg > > > > > > > > testosterone total)35 mg DHEA every other > day30 > > > mg > > > > > > > HC90 mg > > > > > > > > ERFA Thyroid (1 & 1/2 grains) > > > > > > > > Blood results from 21st of July 2010:http://www.nightrangerweb.net/health/DSCF2809.JPG > > > > > > > > I must say I am a bit shocked my > S-Testosterone > > > is > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > low!?!? Last time I checked it, while taking > only > > > 1 > > > > > > > pump of > > > > > > > > gel daily, it was twice as high. HMMMMMMMM. > > > Anything > > > > > > > else > > > > > > > > anyone has to add? > > > > > > > > I also have NO IDEA how my Sodium can be > above > > > the > > > > > > > top > > > > > > > > range when I did NOT take ANY sea salt on > the > > > morning > > > > > > > I drew > > > > > > > > the blood. I just had two small cups of > water, > > > and my > > > > > > > HC, > > > > > > > > that's all. Like, WHAT? Lab-error or what? > I've > > > > > > > usually seen > > > > > > > > LOW-RANGE sodium (136, or 137) while taking > 1/2 > > > to 1 > > > > > > > tea > > > > > > > > spoon sea salt daily, and doing the bood > draw in > > > the > > > > > > > > EVENING, so... I just don't get why Sodium > could > > > be so > > > > > > > high > > > > > > > > in the MORNING!?!?!? Did my aldosterone > suddenly > > > > > > > start > > > > > > > > working much better or what??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Regards, in Norway > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have > been > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2010 Report Share Posted July 30, 2010 I had the same problem with ejaculate volume after being on TRT for a while. It was also very thick. I am not sure if all men on TRT have the same problem as a side effect or not. I found some information about it and decided to try taking ALA/ALC and it really helped. It took about a whole months supply before I noticed any difference but it did work for me. The volume and viscosity I would say are normal now and seems to improve as time goes by. I only had to take 1050mg/450mg of this brand http://www.vitabase.com/supplements/antioxidants/ala-alcvita.aspx to see results, some might have to take more. I am on T-Cyp shots so I cant help you out on the cream other than this. I thought I was going to lose my insurance last year. I found this online http://www.hormonesolutions.com.au/ It is a cream that is applied to the scrotum and it s says 1 tube last 7 -14 weeks @ $100 a tube, depending on the dose. I dont know anything about the product and never used it. I was just looking for alternatives in case I didnt have insurance and it looked like a good option. You need to get control of the estradiol. Finally, it take time to get it all figuered out. This group helped me out a lot. Without it, I wouldnt have know about e2, HCG, ejaculate differences and more. I am still looking and learning B > > I use " Liposomal 10% testosterone gel " which I believe is compounded, but it's extremely expensive. I usually pay $400 USD for 2 containers. They last like... I don't know... 4-6 weeks each? I am not sure. But anyway... How can they mix it wrong when they specialize in this, and everything looks so professional? And it's so expensive? > > Is it dangerous to have a high estradiol? > > And why do I feel my testicles getting smaller after being on testosteorne gel since May? I also notice I have about 70% less ejaculate. I mean, shouldn't the gel improve my health rather than making it worse? I never had ANY problems with erections, and my testis always had a good size, and I always had a lot of ejaculate. I don't get this!!! > > T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2010 Report Share Posted July 30, 2010 Why is it that the gels stop working for some people? I will test s-testosterone again to see what the level is like, a second time. Hey, won't applying gel anyways give different levels of testosterone every day, depending on how you apply it? You can't apply it the exact same way every singel day! Hertoghe says gels are the best and don't recommend shots, I think, if my memory serves me correctly. I hate sticking needles into my body, so the gel is the best option, in my opinion, applying/doing-wise! Yeah I don't know what's going on but I've had strange sleep lately, and feeling naucious and strange today, and less ejaculate and the feelign that my testis are shrinking and.. It's not good! Maybe this second shipment of gel REALLY _was_ made erronous (by the compounders) somehow? How can I find out if it's the same as the first two tubes I ordered? This is my second shipment. I have had more and more panic attacs and anxiety lately... Hertoghe didn't comment on my estradiol level when I saw him on June 30th, and I believe it was near top range then, but he did tell me to take a med called " proscar " whatever that is. I think he told me it was for stopping unwanted hair growth - He also mentioned a possible side-effect: Erection failure, which I DON'T want to experience, so... I don't even know if I want to take that pill! Does " proscar " lower Estradiol too? Ahhhh so testosterone gel is taking over??? My testis won't be of any use anymore? Oh my god! Why did I even start taking testosterone gel? My testosterone WAS FINE when I was on T4/T3 and when I felt great 3 years ago and further back in time. Jeez, am I ruining my manlyhood when I take testosterone gel or what!??!?! HCG shots? MORE SHOTS? I don't want more shots! I am already doing like 1-2 blood samples a week and if I'm gonna start Growth Hormone it will be 1 shot every evening as well... :-( What is HCG, and must ALL men (not women, right?) on testosterone gel/shots take it? We have free health care in Norway, for everyone! Except, I am seeing Dr. Hertoghe who's in Belgium SO NOTHING is covered! :-( Right now I'm feeling miserably nausious and have a weird taste in my mouth, and a tongue that is a bit white... I hope my liver ain't failing!? I'm having higher liver readings as of late... *sigh* So many things to watch out for! Is it ever going to end? (Well, except for the abvious) GH - Can I stop taking it whenever I want to, if I don't feel like taking it anymore? If I won't improve on it? I will start taking it soon. Don't know when. Hertoghe tells me it's the most important part of my treatment plan. (ERFA Thyroid + HC + DHEA + Testosterone + GH) One thing I hate is loosing all my automatic functions which are made in such an amazing way by the body (or GOD or whatever) - Replacing things with hormone replacements makes it all manual + lots of side effects can occur! ;-( Like now, if I take too much testosterone.. The E2 (estradiol = E2, right?) will rise and make problems for me... And stuff like that.. Maybe all the GP's are right when they say " Never mess with hormones! " ??? And my face is getting bigger and bigger... Why is this!? I thought it was going to shrink down to it's original size when I got the right dose of HC, ERFA Thyroid and corrected my hormones!? Well I haven't added GH yet so.. I don't know.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Gibcast <gibcast@...> > > > > > > > > Subject: Latest bloodwork! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, July 28, 2010, 10:23 AM > > > > > > > > So, I do a " backup check " with my > > > > > > > > first treating specialist for my > > > Hypothyroid-symptoms > > > > > > > back > > > > > > > > since 1997 every now and then. Even if I see > Dr. > > > > > > > Hertoghe at > > > > > > > > the moment. Cause Hertoghe is 2 hours away > by > > > plane > > > > > > > and this > > > > > > > > doc is close to where I live, so... They > are > > > both > > > > > > > > outstanding hormone docs! I only follow Dr. > > > Hertoghes > > > > > > > plan. > > > > > > > > I just " double check " with the local guy. > Anyway, > > > here > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > my latest labs while on: > > > > > > > > 2 pumps Testosterone gel 10% daily (2 grams > gel, > > > 200 > > > > > > > mg > > > > > > > > testosterone total)35 mg DHEA every other > day30 > > > mg > > > > > > > HC90 mg > > > > > > > > ERFA Thyroid (1 & 1/2 grains) > > > > > > > > Blood results from 21st of July 2010:http://www.nightrangerweb.net/health/DSCF2809.JPG > > > > > > > > I must say I am a bit shocked my > S-Testosterone > > > is > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > low!?!? Last time I checked it, while taking > only > > > 1 > > > > > > > pump of > > > > > > > > gel daily, it was twice as high. HMMMMMMMM. > > > Anything > > > > > > > else > > > > > > > > anyone has to add? > > > > > > > > I also have NO IDEA how my Sodium can be > above > > > the > > > > > > > top > > > > > > > > range when I did NOT take ANY sea salt on > the > > > morning > > > > > > > I drew > > > > > > > > the blood. I just had two small cups of > water, > > > and my > > > > > > > HC, > > > > > > > > that's all. Like, WHAT? Lab-error or what? > I've > > > > > > > usually seen > > > > > > > > LOW-RANGE sodium (136, or 137) while taking > 1/2 > > > to 1 > > > > > > > tea > > > > > > > > spoon sea salt daily, and doing the bood > draw in > > > the > > > > > > > > EVENING, so... I just don't get why Sodium > could > > > be so > > > > > > > high > > > > > > > > in the MORNING!?!?!? Did my aldosterone > suddenly > > > > > > > start > > > > > > > > working much better or what??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Regards, in Norway > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have > been > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2010 Report Share Posted July 30, 2010 My point is: I didn't have any problems with my sexuality before starting testosterone treatment! I never, ever had any slightest problems with my equipment! EVER! It was always working amazingly perfect, even in February when Hertoghe tested my serum tesotsterone at the bottom of the range. (Mine was like 3350. The range for s-testoterone is 3000 - 10.000) So................... Do I really need testosterone gel? I know it's a part of Hertoghes plan to heal me completely, but, if replacing hormones makes me feel worse AND kills my equipment, what's the point!?!?!? I am happy to have found this group - Cause I don't get anything! :-) I am really on Zero with most hormones. I have my labs before and after supplying testosterone gel for 3 months, that's all I have. Look at page 2 of this bloodwork, where you can compare my results when first coming to Hertoghe (I was on T3-only and HC then, nothing else!) with the results after taking ERFA Thyroid, DHEA and Testosterone, plus HC. The values from FEBRUARY is to the RIGHT, and the new values from JUNE is to the LEFT. The ranges are in the MIDDLE. Bloodwork Febraury & June 2010 comparison:http://www.nightrangerweb.net/health/RomanPaisLaboratory16thofJune201\ 0.pdf PS! The DHEA was very low on the June sample cause I stopped taking it a few weeks before I drew my blood due to unwanted hair growth. I later regretted I stopped taking DHEA cold turkey like that, cause it left my value very low, below the bottom range. Right now, I feel soooo queasy and I know it's from some kind of hormonal imbalance! ;-( Any idea why I feel like this? From: master_trancer <master_trancer@...> Subject: Re: Latest bloodwork! Date: Friday, July 30, 2010, 6:49 PM Â I had the same problem with ejaculate volume after being on TRT for a while. It was also very thick. I am not sure if all men on TRT have the same problem as a side effect or not. I found some information about it and decided to try taking ALA/ALC and it really helped. It took about a whole months supply before I noticed any difference but it did work for me. The volume and viscosity I would say are normal now and seems to improve as time goes by. I only had to take 1050mg/450mg of this brand http://www.vitabase.com/supplements/antioxidants/ala-alcvita.aspx to see results, some might have to take more. I am on T-Cyp shots so I cant help you out on the cream other than this. I thought I was going to lose my insurance last year. I found this online http://www.hormonesolutions.com.au/ It is a cream that is applied to the scrotum and it s says 1 tube last 7 -14 weeks @ $100 a tube, depending on the dose. I dont know anything about the product and never used it. I was just looking for alternatives in case I didnt have insurance and it looked like a good option. You need to get control of the estradiol. Finally, it take time to get it all figuered out. This group helped me out a lot. Without it, I wouldnt have know about e2, HCG, ejaculate differences and more. I am still looking and learning B > > I use " Liposomal 10% testosterone gel " which I believe is compounded, but it's extremely expensive. I usually pay $400 USD for 2 containers. They last like... I don't know... 4-6 weeks each? I am not sure. But anyway... How can they mix it wrong when they specialize in this, and everything looks so professional? And it's so expensive? > > Is it dangerous to have a high estradiol? > > And why do I feel my testicles getting smaller after being on testosteorne gel since May? I also notice I have about 70% less ejaculate. I mean, shouldn't the gel improve my health rather than making it worse? I never had ANY problems with erections, and my testis always had a good size, and I always had a lot of ejaculate. I don't get this!!! > > T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2010 Report Share Posted July 30, 2010 Just discovered my Estradiol is currently at 0.16 nmol/l. It should be less than 0.18 according to the range here at my local lab in Norway. However, my Estradiol was at 0.06 in January this year, 4 months before starting Testosterone gel supplementing. SO, it has risen with 0.10!!! Which is a lot! Could this explain why I feel so weird now? Queasy and just bad? I guess there are many reasons why I feel bad but still. The local lab page tells me that men can only have a high Estradiol from a cancer, OR from serious liver damage... Oh, and regarding the FSH. I see the range in Norway just tells that men should have somewhere below 12 U/L. The values I can find from my archives from the past are 1.5 and 1.0. I guess this is a bit low? Why didn't anytell tell my my FSH is too low then? These values are from earlier this year, before starting testotsterone treatment, but while on T3-only and HC. I can also try to dig up some FSH values from previous years. The ONLY replacement that will change FSH (lower it) is Testosterone, or what? Now my FSH is down to 0.8. I guess from starting Testosterone treatment?!!? So many questions... Trying to save my own life before it's too late, it really feels bad now. Being very queasy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2010 Report Share Posted July 30, 2010 Your Dr. is a great Dr. I don't know why he would tell you to take proscar this is a very bad med to take it can kill your sex life and your hormone levels. This med is so bad I see men on it posting they have all kinds of hormone problems. Here is a link about it. http://www.propeciasideeffects.com/ And Dr. has been working try to help them guys don't take this med. Yes you can stop GH anytime I just did my Dr. had me on to much of it I had to stop taking it for a month to go back on a lower dose. I don't understand why you went on gels if your levels for Testosterone were good I tell men don't do this once you go on any kind of testosterone your brain shuts down and you need a good Dr. that knows what he is doing to try to jump start you again. I don't feel your Dr. Hertoghe would put you on TRT unless you needed it. You can't let this upset you it will only make you feel worse take my word for it been there done that. I am on every hormone my body makes and I do fine with out them I would not want to live. A lot can happen in 3 yrs if you have a pituitary problem as time goes on it can get worse. I am not saying you have a pituitary problem and your face how much HC do you take a day this can make you have a moon face. Read this link. http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=12 & t=15462 Do you have any red looking stretch makes on your body if you do call your Dr. Men on gels have levels that are the same if the gel is working and getting through your skin. I was on a compounded cream and my levels fell off. My Dr. had to give me shots until the labs sent me a new cream this happened to me 2 times in 3 yrs I was on the Compounded Cream so it can happen your levels went down because of this or it is not getting through your skin anymore. Co-Moderator Phil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Gibcast <gibcast@...> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Latest > bloodwork! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, July 28, 2010, 10:23 > AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, I do a " backup check " with my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first treating specialist for my > > > > > > > Hypothyroid-symptoms > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > back > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > since 1997 every now and then. Even if > I see > > > Dr. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hertoghe at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the moment. Cause Hertoghe is 2 hours > away > > > by > > > > > > > plane > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > doc is close to where I live, so... > They > > > are > > > > > > > both > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > outstanding hormone docs! I only follow > Dr. > > > > > > > Hertoghes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > plan. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just " double check " with the local > guy. > > > Anyway, > > > > > > > here > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my latest labs while on: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 pumps Testosterone gel 10% daily (2 > grams > > > gel, > > > > > > > 200 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > testosterone total)35 mg DHEA every > other > > > day30 > > > > > > > mg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HC90 mg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ERFA Thyroid (1 & 1/2 grains) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Blood results from 21st of July 2010:http://www.nightrangerweb.net/health/DSCF2809.JPG > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I must say I am a bit shocked my > > > S-Testosterone > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > low!?!? Last time I checked it, while > taking > > > only > > > > > > > 1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pump of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gel daily, it was twice as high. > HMMMMMMMM. > > > > > > > Anything > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > else > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anyone has to add? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also have NO IDEA how my Sodium can > be > > > above > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > top > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > range when I did NOT take ANY sea salt > on > > > the > > > > > > > morning > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I drew > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the blood. I just had two small cups > of > > > water, > > > > > > > and my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HC, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's all. Like, WHAT? Lab-error or > what? > > > I've > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > usually seen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > LOW-RANGE sodium (136, or 137) while > taking > > > 1/2 > > > > > > > to 1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tea > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > spoon sea salt daily, and doing the > bood > > > draw in > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > EVENING, so... I just don't get why > Sodium > > > could > > > > > > > be so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > high > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the MORNING!?!?!? Did my > aldosterone > > > suddenly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > start > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > working much better or what??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Regards, in Norway > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message > have > > > been > > > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2010 Report Share Posted July 30, 2010 you need to know going on TRT and your levels at 3350 with that range tells me your levels are that of a man 100 yrs. old. Men on TRT are going to have some Estradiol problems it is a given. But to teat this is a small price to pay to feel better. And get your sex life back. Men on TRT will grow hair on there upper body and have oily skin. I use baby wipes on my face 4x's a day to keep the oil off my face it gets into my eyes. Until your Dr. gets you leveled off you not going to feel all that great. After you get your Testosterone levels up into the upper 1/3 of your labs range and you keep your Estradiol levels down to about 20 pg/ml and you keep it this way. Little by little your going to feel better everyday it is a slow process so keep a log on how you feel day to day so when you read it back you can see how your doing. Don't let this tear you down keep posting until you under stand about this and feel better. Just think about all the men that come here sick for yrs. from not seeing a good Dr. your seeing one of the best. You are way a head of the game. Co-Moderator Phil > > From: master_trancer <master_trancer@...> > Subject: Re: Latest bloodwork! > > Date: Friday, July 30, 2010, 6:49 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had the same problem with ejaculate > volume after being on TRT for a while. It was also very > thick. I am not sure if all men on TRT have the same problem > as a side effect or not. I found some information about it > and decided to try taking ALA/ALC and it really helped. > > > > It took about a whole months supply before I noticed any > difference but it did work for me. The volume and viscosity > I would say are normal now and seems to improve as time goes > by. I only had to take 1050mg/450mg of this brand http://www.vitabase.com/supplements/antioxidants/ala-alcvita.aspx > > to see results, some might have to take more. > > > > I am on T-Cyp shots so I cant help you out on the cream > other than this. I thought I was going to lose my insurance > last year. I found this online http://www.hormonesolutions.com.au/ > > > > It is a cream that is applied to the scrotum and it s says > 1 tube last 7 -14 weeks @ $100 a tube, depending on the > dose. I dont know anything about the product and never used > it. I was just looking for alternatives in case I didnt have > insurance and it looked like a good option. > > > > You need to get control of the estradiol. > > > > Finally, it take time to get it all figuered out. This > group helped me out a lot. Without it, I wouldnt have know > about e2, HCG, ejaculate differences and more. I am still > looking and learning > > > > B > > > > > > > > > > I use " Liposomal 10% testosterone gel " which I believe > is compounded, but it's extremely expensive. I usually pay > $400 USD for 2 containers. They last like... I don't know... > 4-6 weeks each? I am not sure. But anyway... How can they > mix it wrong when they specialize in this, and everything > looks so professional? And it's so expensive? > > > > > > Is it dangerous to have a high estradiol? > > > > > > And why do I feel my testicles getting smaller after > being on testosteorne gel since May? I also notice I have > about 70% less ejaculate. I mean, shouldn't the gel improve > my health rather than making it worse? I never had ANY > problems with erections, and my testis always had a good > size, and I always had a lot of ejaculate. I don't get > this!!! > > > > > > T. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2010 Report Share Posted July 30, 2010 Yes I told you your units are not the same as we use but my range is 13 to 54 pg/ml anything over 20 for me I feel like your feeling. You can take Arimidex to get this down call your Dr. tell him you want to try Arimidex. Read how to not go to low on this from this copy of a file I made. ==================================================== How To Take Arimdex and not go down on your Estradiol to Low. What I found is if you go to low taking arimidex, it's the length of time your to low, if your too low say for 8 weeks it can take your body a longer time to make more Estradiol. Bottom line is to know how not to go to low. Keep a log on your dose and how you feel men going to low can't get it up taking Viagra. I went to low when I first tried Arimidex and did not know about going to low or how one feels to low, so I was low a good 8 weeks. I did not know I was low until my next labs. The best gage I have found to control your Estradiol levels is to gage your night time and morning wood. At good levels or what I call the sweet spot you get your night time and morning wood back so strong it will wake you up and you can hang a coat on it. Most men do good taking .25 mgs or 1/4 of a 1mg. pill, I use a pill cutter to cut the small pill in half then I stand it on the cut end and use a single edge razor to cut this in half. A good way to take arimidex is by how high your levels are. I tested over 90 pg/ml so we tried doing .5 mgs every other day after 8 weeks my next set of labs showed it did not move below 90, test said >90. So we did .5 mgs. every day in about 2 weeks I got some strong night time and morning wood back after not having them for many yrs. I kept doing this dose and in 8 weeks my next set of labs said <20 back in the day labs were like this they did not have to good labs we have today they could not read lower the 20. My Dr. told me this looks to low to stop taking the Arimidex. The one thing I noticed was my wood stopped and stopping the Arimidex my wood came back in about 7 weeks my next test at 8 weeks was 24 pg/ml. So we went back on the Arimidex but the Dr. told me to take .5 mgs every 3 days I was on this dose not a week and lost wood. This is when I figured out going to low you lose wood. And the longer your too low the longer it takes to get levels back up. I stopped the arimidex right away and got my wood back in 4 days. I then after playing with the dose for a time found the best dose is .25mgs every 2 to 3 days. So lets say your labs are less the 50 pg/ml if your take .5 mgs you can go down so dam fast your miss the sweet spot of your wood and go to low. It's best with lower levels 50 and under to do less Arimidex .25mgs every 2 days if later your lose wood when it comes back go to every 3 days. I have found estradiol is the hardest hormone to control, it goes up or down from month to month some times I need .25mgs every 2 days other times I need ..25mgs everyday most of the time I do well on every 3 days. So between wood and labs I do great and so do most of the men I have told this to. I keep a log on how much I am taking and how I feel. Doing this and reading back in my log I was able to tell when I was going to high or to low my Dr. lets me dose my arimidex by how I feel. Over the yrs. I have posted this story until I am blue in the face. --------------------------------------------------- Or see if you can get some Indolplex/DIM it is a supplement. ==================================================== ALL ABOUT DIM. Sure here is a few links that are all about it. But there are a lot of Co.'s out there selling DIM that don't work well. Indolplex/DIM is the best it dose not get killed in your stomach when you take it. Diindolylmethane (DIM) is a stable indole found in cruciferous vegetables which promotes a beneficial estrogen metabolism in both women and men. http://www.dimfaq.com/index.htm in this link it's full of links about it. http://qualitycounts.com/fpdim.html http://www.jbc.org/content/278/23/21136.full If you have DIM in caps it's not Indolplex so to take this and to get it to work open the cap pore the DIM into a spoon add some Olive oil and take it this helps to keep it from getting killed in your stomach. The following is some links to where you can buy Indolplex/DIM. http://www.vitaglo.com/e5336.html http://www.vitacost.com/EnzymaticTherapyEstroBalancewithDIM/searchby-PN/searchte\ xt-dim http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0 http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0 http://www.estrobalance.net/ http://www.easyhealthzone.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=PP0108 & click=71 http://www.nbizz.com/longevityclinic/listings/213.html http://www.drugnatural.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD & Store_Code=DMOS & Product_\ Code=156497 http://www.smartbomb.com/itindo9.html?utm_source=mercent & utm_medium=shopcompare & \ utm_content=itindo9 & utm_campaign=mbsdb & mr:trackingCode=C6AEFBD1-E681-DE11-B7F3-0\ 019B9C043EB & mr:referralID=NA http://www.ritecare.com/cgi-bin/cart.pl?db=product_db.dat & category=natural+medic\ ine & method=any_words & search=iti-75336 http://www.naturamart.com/phytopharmica-pms-formula-with-indoplex-120-caps.html How to take Indolplex/DIM take one tablet 120 mgs at dinner time it can take 2 weeks to 2 months to get your Estradiol levels down it’s all about how high you are in your levels. What you need to do is get this down to about 20 pg/ml. When you get this low your night time and morning wood will come back so strong it will wake you up this means most of the time your at your best levels or what I call the sweet spot. Keep taking the DIM but if your wood stops your going down to low so just stop taking it. The day your wood comes back go back on the DIM but cut the tablet in half. If your Testosterone was tested and low but your not on TRT get it tested again you might find your levels came up some 200 to 300 points. http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174 Co-Moderator Phil > From: Gibcast <gibcast@...> > Subject: Re: Latest bloodwork! > > Date: Friday, July 30, 2010, 4:09 PM > Just discovered my Estradiol is > currently at 0.16 nmol/l. It should be less than 0.18 > according to the range here at my local lab in Norway. > However, my Estradiol was at 0.06 in January this year, 4 > months before starting Testosterone gel supplementing. SO, > it has risen with 0.10!!! Which is a lot! Could this explain > why I feel so weird now? Queasy and just bad? I guess > there are many reasons why I feel bad but still. > > > > > >  > The local lab page tells me that men can only have a high > Estradiol from a cancer, OR from serious liver damage... > Oh, and regarding the FSH. I see the range in Norway just > tells that men should have somewhere below 12 U/L. The > values I can find from my archives from the past are 1.5 and > 1.0. I guess this is a bit low? Why didn't anytell tell my > my FSH is too low then? These values are from earlier this > year, before starting testotsterone treatment, but while on > T3-only and HC. I can also try to dig up some FSH values > from previous years. > The ONLY replacement that will change FSH (lower it) is > Testosterone, or what? Now my FSH is down to 0.8. I guess > from starting Testosterone treatment?!!? > So many questions... > Trying to save my own life before it's too late, it really > feels bad now. Being very queasy! > > > > > > > > > > > >    > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2010 Report Share Posted July 30, 2010 He told me to take 1/4 tablet of Proscar to LOOSE the hair that was starting to grow on my outer ears! It was just a cosmetical issue, a complaint from my side - about 1 month before I came to the follow up appointment now on June 30th. That's why I quit DHEA - His apprentice told me to do so because of the hair growth! When I did see Hertoghe a month later, he told me that DHEA won't make hair appear, but high testosterone will. So the two docs in the same clinic disagreed. Oh well. I trust Hertoghe more than the younger doc! Anyway. I will simply not take proscar then. If it's only given to me to remove my excess hair growth. WEIRD, cause - I read now that proscar will make hair come BACK instead of falling off? Haha. Anyway, I never tried proscar, don't even have it here! (It's in the mail system somewhere...) I was told to take GH like this: 0.05 mgwait 10 days0.10 mgwait 10 days0.15 mgwait 10 days0.20 mgwait 10 days0.25 mg - stay on that dose. He wants my level up from the current top range at 500 which my level is at NOW (he says I don't belong within the range, I am too tall for the range!) - And bring my level up to like 800! I already have a weird heart, extra beats/irregular heartbeats sometimes (which scare me to death almost!) - and strange potassium readings, so taking GH will further deplete me of potassium and give me more heart issues, I am sure! ;-( I am just worried, that's all. I only have one life................ Well as you saw my level of testosterone, we're talking S-Testosterone here, was at the bottom of the range, before starting the gel. HOWEVER, I am talking about what my body COULD do, only 2 years ago, when my S-Testosterone was at 20 nmol/l (Range: 8 - 35 nmol/l) - As seen in this link: http://nightrangerweb.net/health/DSCF2806.JPG That was the bloodwork done right before my world fell apart. I was on T4/T3 at the time and felt amazing! My sex-life was SO great, I can't even describe it! (I could have sex for 9 hours straight, never any issues with anything!) The thyroid meds were removed from me after a heart-issue, by those stupid Endo's, and boom, my health went down the DRAIN!!! So it was the removal of the Thyroid meds that sent me on this rollercoaster ride (mostly a down down down ride tho!) for the past 2 1/2 years now........... I believe all I needed at the time was HC! But no-one told me! So to me it looked like the s-testosterone level was fine for a 28 year old. And the only thing that made testosterone fall was the REMOVAL of the Thyroid meds. Am I correct? Thus making me more Hypo = less testosterone. So what about s-testosterone + SHBG = total testo index? Mine was always high! At 99%! Is THAT the most important factor? The total of it all? ALSO, starting HC June 2009 (made me feel better, the HC!) also made Testosterone fall. Am I correct? I am on 30 mg HC daily. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Gibcast <gibcast@...> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Latest > bloodwork! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, July 28, 2010, 10:23 > AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, I do a " backup check " with my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first treating specialist for my > > > > > > > Hypothyroid-symptoms > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > back > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > since 1997 every now and then. Even if > I see > > > Dr. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hertoghe at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the moment. Cause Hertoghe is 2 hours > away > > > by > > > > > > > plane > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > doc is close to where I live, so... > They > > > are > > > > > > > both > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > outstanding hormone docs! I only follow > Dr. > > > > > > > Hertoghes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > plan. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just " double check " with the local > guy. > > > Anyway, > > > > > > > here > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my latest labs while on: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 pumps Testosterone gel 10% daily (2 > grams > > > gel, > > > > > > > 200 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > testosterone total)35 mg DHEA every > other > > > day30 > > > > > > > mg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HC90 mg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ERFA Thyroid (1 & 1/2 grains) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Blood results from 21st of July 2010:http://www.nightrangerweb.net/health/DSCF2809.JPG > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I must say I am a bit shocked my > > > S-Testosterone > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > low!?!? Last time I checked it, while > taking > > > only > > > > > > > 1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pump of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gel daily, it was twice as high. > HMMMMMMMM. > > > > > > > Anything > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > else > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anyone has to add? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also have NO IDEA how my Sodium can > be > > > above > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > top > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > range when I did NOT take ANY sea salt > on > > > the > > > > > > > morning > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I drew > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the blood. I just had two small cups > of > > > water, > > > > > > > and my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HC, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's all. Like, WHAT? Lab-error or > what? > > > I've > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > usually seen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > LOW-RANGE sodium (136, or 137) while > taking > > > 1/2 > > > > > > > to 1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tea > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > spoon sea salt daily, and doing the > bood > > > draw in > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > EVENING, so... I just don't get why > Sodium > > > could > > > > > > > be so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > high > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the MORNING!?!?!? Did my > aldosterone > > > suddenly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > start > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > working much better or what??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Regards, in Norway > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message > have > > > been > > > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2010 Report Share Posted July 30, 2010 Phil, I appreciate your help - A lot! It makes me feel better! THANK YOU! Yeah, I understand my s-testo wasn't all that good! Bottom range is never good... But I still need to find out what matters when it comes to testosterone: Most of the docs I've met tell me that it's the index that matters, s-testo multiplied or divided (can't remember) with SHGB. And my index was always super-high and according to docs " great! you are VERY masculine! this is perfect! " - But if s-testo is lowish... And the total index is super-perfect.. What matters the most? I do feeø at least 100 yo! So.. Haha! Might be something true in that value... I never had any issues with my sexlife. In fact, ex-girlfriends always complained that I'm too horny all the time. Haha. Go figure huh!?!?!? When I saw Hertoghe the first time in March 2010 he was a bit confused about my body hair... From the age of 20, I've had a LOT of body hair: chest, arms (upper too) and the whole back full of it + the whole body. The only place with " no hair " is.. my face when I shave! So haha.. Yeah! He didn't get that! And was like " HMMMMMMM..............HHMMMMM..... " :-) But he does seem like an AMAZING specialist! And I admire him already! > > From: master_trancer <master_trancer@...> > Subject: Re: Latest bloodwork! > > Date: Friday, July 30, 2010, 6:49 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > >  > > >   >    >    >    I had the same problem with ejaculate > volume after being on TRT for a while. It was also very > thick. I am not sure if all men on TRT have the same problem > as a side effect or not. I found some information about it > and decided to try taking ALA/ALC and it really helped. > > > > It took about a whole months supply before I noticed any > difference but it did work for me. The volume and viscosity > I would say are normal now and seems to improve as time goes > by. I only had to take 1050mg/450mg of this brand http://www.vitabase.com/supplements/antioxidants/ala-alcvita.aspx > > to see results, some might have to take more. > > > > I am on T-Cyp shots so I cant help you out on the cream > other than this. I thought I was going to lose my insurance > last year. I found this online http://www.hormonesolutions.com.au/ > > > > It is a cream that is applied to the scrotum and it s says > 1 tube last 7 -14 weeks @ $100 a tube, depending on the > dose. I dont know anything about the product and never used > it. I was just looking for alternatives in case I didnt have > insurance and it looked like a good option. > > > > You need to get control of the estradiol. > > > > Finally, it take time to get it all figuered out. This > group helped me out a lot. Without it, I wouldnt have know > about e2, HCG, ejaculate differences and more. I am still > looking and learning > > > > B > > > > > > > > > > I use " Liposomal 10% testosterone gel " which I believe > is compounded, but it's extremely expensive. I usually pay > $400 USD for 2 containers. They last like... I don't know... > 4-6 weeks each? I am not sure. But anyway... How can they > mix it wrong when they specialize in this, and everything > looks so professional? And it's so expensive? > > > > > > Is it dangerous to have a high estradiol? > > > > > > And why do I feel my testicles getting smaller after > being on testosteorne gel since May? I also notice I have > about 70% less ejaculate. I mean, shouldn't the gel improve > my health rather than making it worse? I never had ANY > problems with erections, and my testis always had a good > size, and I always had a lot of ejaculate. I don't get > this!!! > > > > > > T. > > > > > >   >     > >   >   > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > >    > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2010 Report Share Posted July 31, 2010 Thomans, Stop processing this your only making your self worse. I never heard of a man stopping thyroid meds and ending up with low testosterone like your levels fell. Yes thyroid and bad Adrenals or low cortisol can stress out your body and mind and your testosterone levels can fall but not that much. I am not saying this did not happen to you I have seen it all and things like this would not shock me. Your Dr. is right about your starting on GH low and working your way up on it. I had to have Heart Bypass sugary 20 months ago and it was due to low hormones all them yrs. My Heart Dr. put me on GH for my heart he feels my low levels over the yrs. did in my Heart if anything your going on GH will help your heart. And going on HC will not lower your Testosterone levels. I have yet to see this happen most men that have low Testosterone the stress of it over works there Adrenals and they end up needing HC. Here is where your at now and what you need to do is work on getting better. The more you stress your self about what or why this harped to you the worse you can get. On TRT stress will eat up your meds as fast as you take them. Your going to have a hard time getting leveled off if your having a lot of stress. So try not to think about this once your leveled and feeling better you will not think about at all. People take Proscar for hair loss and in a lot of men as you could see in the link I gave you men are getting dam sick on it. They lose there sex life and end up with low hormones. Co-Moderator Phil > > > > > From: Gibcast <gibcast@...> > > > Subject: Re: Latest bloodwork! > > > > > > Date: Friday, July 30, 2010, 3:19 PM > > > Why is it that the gels stop working > > > for some people? I will test s-testosterone again to > see > > > what the level is like, a second time. Hey, won't > applying > > > gel anyways give different levels of testosterone > every day, > > > depending on how you apply it? You can't apply it the > exact > > > same way every singel day! Hertoghe says gels are the > best > > > and don't recommend shots, I think, if my memory > serves me > > > correctly. I hate sticking needles into my body, so > the gel > > > is the best option, in my opinion, > applying/doing-wise! > > > > > > Yeah I don't know what's going on but I've had > strange > > > sleep lately, and feeling naucious and strange today, > and > > > less ejaculate and the feelign that my testis are > shrinking > > > and.. It's not good! Maybe this second shipment of > gel > > > REALLY _was_ made erronous (by the compounders) > somehow? How > > > can I find out if it's the same as the first two tubes > I > > > ordered? This is my second shipment. I have had more > and > > > more panic attacs and anxiety lately... Hertoghe > didn't > > > comment on my estradiol level when I saw him on June > 30th, > > > and I believe it was near top range then, but he did > tell me > > > to take a med called " proscar " whatever that is. I > think he > > > told me it was for stopping unwanted hair growth - He > also > > > mentioned a possible side-effect: Erection failure, > which I > > > DON'T want to experience, so... I don't even know if I > want > > > to take that pill! Does " proscar " lower Estradiol > too? > > > Ahhhh so testosterone gel is taking over??? My testis > won't > > > be of any use anymore? Oh my god! Why did I even > start > > > taking testosterone gel? My testosterone WAS FINE when > I was > > > on T4/T3 and when I felt great 3 years ago and further > back > > > in time. Jeez, am I ruining my manlyhood when I take > > > testosterone gel or what!??!?! > > > > > > HCG shots? MORE SHOTS? I don't want more shots! I am > > > already doing like 1-2 blood samples a week and if I'm > gonna > > > start Growth Hormone it will be 1 shot every evening > as > > > well... :-( What is HCG, and must ALL men (not women, > > > right?) on testosterone gel/shots take it? > > > We have free health care in Norway, for everyone! > Except, I > > > am seeing Dr. Hertoghe who's in Belgium SO NOTHING is > > > covered! :-( > > > Right now I'm feeling miserably nausious and have a > weird > > > taste in my mouth, and a tongue that is a bit white... > I > > > hope my liver ain't failing!? I'm having higher liver > > > readings as of late... *sigh* So many things to watch > out > > > for! Is it ever going to end? (Well, except for the > > > abvious) > > > GH - Can I stop taking it whenever I want to, if I > don't > > > feel like taking it anymore? If I won't improve on it? > I > > > will start taking it soon. Don't know when. Hertoghe > tells > > > me it's the most important part of my treatment plan. > (ERFA > > > Thyroid + HC + DHEA + Testosterone + GH) > > > One thing I hate is loosing all my automatic > functions > > > which are made in such an amazing way by the body (or > GOD or > > > whatever) - Replacing things with hormone replacements > makes > > > it all manual + lots of side effects can occur! ;-( > Like > > > now, if I take too much testosterone.. The E2 > (estradiol = > > > E2, right?) will rise and make problems for me... And > stuff > > > like that.. Maybe all the GP's are right when they > say > > > " Never mess with hormones! " ??? > > > And my face is getting bigger and bigger... Why is > this!? I > > > thought it was going to shrink down to it's original > size > > > when I got the right dose of HC, ERFA Thyroid and > corrected > > > my hormones!? Well I haven't added GH yet so.. I > don't > > > know.. > > > > > > > > > > > -fullfeatured > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2010 Report Share Posted July 31, 2010 Total Testosterone is very important because Free T is only about 1 to 2% of your Total. So if your Total is very low and your Free is high it means nothing because a low % of nothing is nothing. As for dosing meds most go by Total. High levels of Estradiol make SHBG go up the higher it gets the more it binds up your Free T levels. Here is a good link to read about this. http://www.griffinmedical.com/male_hormone_modulation_therapy.html Your seeing a dam good Dr. and in time he will have you feeling like your old self. I get young men posting at man's health forums that are messed up with low hormones and there big problem is finding a good Dr. to test and treat them. Some are very sick from over doing it in the gym working out and eating some crazy diet to keep there % of body fat down. What these young man need to is not to go on TRT but to figure out what they need to get there body and mind working again. To do this they need a dam good Dr. and I hate to say this there are not to many able to do this. ==================================================== Low Hormones due to over training. This was on the other forum and looks to be relevent to your condition. According to research presented at the Endocrine Society's annual meeting, " males presenting with high athletic stress or weight loss, coupled with low testosterone, may signal the rise of a new disorder -- functional hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism. " In a study of seven patients and 35 healthy matched controls, researchers found that the " patients had a lower average weight compared to controls (64.1 kg versus 79.9 kg, P<0.01). They also had a lower body mass index (20.7 versus 24.9, P<0.01) and a lower percentage of body fat (9.8% versus 17.6%, P<0.01), " in addition to " lower serum testosterone...(168 ng/dL versus 534 ng/dL, P<0.001), lower serum estradiol (12.4 pg/ml versus 37.5 pg/ml, P<0.001), and lower serum leutinizing hormone (LH) (7.2 IU/L versus 9.9 IU/L, P<0.05). " ENDO: Pursuit of Six Pack Abs May Trigger New Malady Medical News: ENDO: Pursuit of Six Pack Abs May Trigger New Malady - in Meeting Coverage, ENDO from MedPage Today SAN DIEGO -- Males presenting with high athletic stress or weight loss, coupled with low testosterone, may signal the rise of a new disorder -- functional hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism. Just as women whose bodies are under stress from excessive exercise, weight loss, or psychological stress can experience hypothalamic amenorrhea, a seven-patient series suggests that a similar phenomenon may exist among men undergoing similar kinds of stress, Dwyer, MD, of Massachusetts General Hospital, said during a poster session here at the annual meeting of the Endocrine Society. " We saw some male patients who all have a similar type of presentation in terms of one or more of this [stress] triad, and presented with low testosterone, " Dwyer explained. The patients all had normal puberty and a normal testicular size, but all presented with " vague, non-specific symptoms " of low testosterone, including absent morning erections, low energy level, fatigue, decreased athletic performance, and decreased libido, he said. " Interestingly, two of these patients had female family members with amenorrhea, which made us think maybe there's a connection, " Dwyer continued. To further study this phenomenon, the patients were recalled to the hospital, where they underwent detailed genotyping and phenotyping, including measurements of reproductive and metabolic hormones, an overnight frequent sampling study of leutinizing hormone, and DEXA scan for body composition. The investigators also recruited 35 age-matched healthy adults as controls. The seven patients had a lower average weight compared to controls (64.1 kg versus 79.9 kg, P<0.01). They also had a lower body mass index (20.7 versus 24.9, P<0.01) and a lower percentage of body fat (9.8% versus 17.6%, P<0.01). In terms of their biochemical characteristics, the patients had lower serum testosterone compared with controls (168 ng/dL versus 534 ng/dL, P<0.001), lower serum estradiol (12.4 pg/ml versus 37.5 pg/ml, P<0.001), and lower serum leutinizing hormone (LH) (7.2 IU/L versus 9.9 IU/L, P<0.05). The patients also had lower pulse frequency, lower mean LH amplitude, and lower serum FSH, but none of those numbers approached statistical significance, according to the investigators. Despite their low testosterone levels, six of the seven patients had LH pulse patterns, frequency, and amplitude that were no different from controls, Dwyer said. However, the seventh patient had four hours of no pulses, then a burst of three pulses, then no pulses for the remaining four hours, a pattern that normally occurs when boys first enter puberty. " It's as if this patient is recapitulating an early- to mid-pubertal LH pulse secretion pattern, " he said. " He's 17, he went through normal puberty, he's done and he's virilized, but with the stress of exercise and the weight loss, perhaps the stress tipped him back into the nocturnal pulse pattern. " Dwyer noted that after the patients had been tested, one of them sustained a heel injury and had to stop training for a while. " He gained six pounds, and we measured his testosterone level, and serially, it stayed normal, " he noted. " So with just enough removal of stress...he was able to swing back into normal testosterone production. " Another patient who decreased his training upon the researchers' recommendation was also retested and his testosterone level was up into the low end of the normal range, said Dwyer. The researchers are calling the possible new disorder functional hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism. " In Boston, there are lots of marathon runners and collegiate rowers who exercise a lot and don't exhibit these symptoms, " he said. " So what is it about these seven men that make them different from vast majority of superexerciser lean guys? " The investigators hypothesize that these men may harbor mutations in genes that are involved in GnRH androgyny or reproductive access such that with the right stressor, that can tip them into hypogonadism, but if you remove the stressor they tip back, " said Dwyer. Rick Dorin, MD, chief of endocrinology at the University of New Mexico, in Albuquerque, said the study was very interesting. " I see a painfully large amount of hypogonadism in in my clinical practice at the Veterans Affairs Hospital, " said Dorin, who was not involved in the study. " We see a lot of hypogonadism due to other factors, but not in such young men. This is raising the possibility that the [hypothalamic amenorrhea] in women athletes -- that a comparable thing goes on in young men. They've got provocative findings in a small number of patients. " Primary source: The Endocrine Society Source reference: NR Chavan, AA Dwyer, PW , MT , GP Sykiotis, KW Keefe, SB Seminara, L Plummer, WF Crowley, N Pitteloud. " Male functional hypogonadotropic hypogonadism (MFHH): A distinct clinical entity? " ENDO 2010; Abstract Book, P2-462. Co-Moderator Phil > > > > > > From: master_trancer <master_trancer@...> > > > Subject: Re: Latest bloodwork! > > > > > > Date: Friday, July 30, 2010, 6:49 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had the same problem with ejaculate > > > volume after being on TRT for a while. It was also > very > > > thick. I am not sure if all men on TRT have the same > problem > > > as a side effect or not. I found some information > about it > > > and decided to try taking ALA/ALC and it really > helped. > > > > > > > > > > > > It took about a whole months supply before I noticed > any > > > difference but it did work for me. The volume and > viscosity > > > I would say are normal now and seems to improve as > time goes > > > by. I only had to take 1050mg/450mg of this brand http://www.vitabase.com/supplements/antioxidants/ala-alcvita.aspx > > > > > > to see results, some might have to take more. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am on T-Cyp shots so I cant help you out on the > cream > > > other than this. I thought I was going to lose my > insurance > > > last year. I found this online http://www.hormonesolutions.com.au/ > > > > > > > > > > > > It is a cream that is applied to the scrotum and it s > says > > > 1 tube last 7 -14 weeks @ $100 a tube, depending on > the > > > dose. I dont know anything about the product and never > used > > > it. I was just looking for alternatives in case I > didnt have > > > insurance and it looked like a good option. > > > > > > > > > > > > You need to get control of the estradiol. > > > > > > > > > > > > Finally, it take time to get it all figuered out. > This > > > group helped me out a lot. Without it, I wouldnt have > know > > > about e2, HCG, ejaculate differences and more. I am > still > > > looking and learning > > > > > > > > > > > > B > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I use " Liposomal 10% testosterone gel " which I > believe > > > is compounded, but it's extremely expensive. I usually > pay > > > $400 USD for 2 containers. They last like... I don't > know... > > > 4-6 weeks each? I am not sure. But anyway... How can > they > > > mix it wrong when they specialize in this, and > everything > > > looks so professional? And it's so expensive? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it dangerous to have a high estradiol? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And why do I feel my testicles getting smaller > after > > > being on testosteorne gel since May? I also notice I > have > > > about 70% less ejaculate. I mean, shouldn't the gel > improve > > > my health rather than making it worse? I never had > ANY > > > problems with erections, and my testis always had a > good > > > size, and I always had a lot of ejaculate. I don't > get > > > this!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > T. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2010 Report Share Posted July 31, 2010 Hi Phil and thanks for all the words of wisdom, and the information! I know my doc is amazing. I just hope to feel better soon that's all. It's been 3 years of suffering, these last 3 years, and 18 years of being sick total, of my 31 years... :\ Looking at the first and second bloodwork made by Dr. Hertoghe, testosterone, etc. looks like this: S-Testosterone before gel: 3467 (range 3000 - 10.000 pg/mL)S-Testosterone on gel 6 weeks: 9851 Total Testosterone before gel: 153 (range: 50 - 280 pg/mL)Total Testosterone on gel 6 weeks: 615 Testosterone Index before gel: 95.6%Testosterone Index on gel 6 weeks: 93.8% Estradiol before gel: 12 (range: <30 pg/mL) Estradiol on gel 6 weeks: 26 Estrone (E1) before gel: not testedEstrone on gel 6 weeks: 41 (range: 10 - 60 pg/mL) SHBG before gel: 14 (range: 20 - 55 pmol/l)SHBG on gel 6 weeks: 17 So those were the tests he did so far. I also did a test recently, now in late July, and it came out worse with the Estrogen I think, and also a much lower S-Testosterone than before. But I will test it again to see if the labs are true. > > > > > > From: master_trancer <master_trancer@...> > > > Subject: Re: Latest bloodwork! > > > > > > Date: Friday, July 30, 2010, 6:49 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Â > > > Â > > > > > > > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > > Â Â > > > Â Â Â > > > Â Â Â > > > Â Â Â I had the same problem with ejaculate > > > volume after being on TRT for a while. It was also > very > > > thick. I am not sure if all men on TRT have the same > problem > > > as a side effect or not. I found some information > about it > > > and decided to try taking ALA/ALC and it really > helped. > > > > > > > > > > > > It took about a whole months supply before I noticed > any > > > difference but it did work for me. The volume and > viscosity > > > I would say are normal now and seems to improve as > time goes > > > by. I only had to take 1050mg/450mg of this brand http://www.vitabase.com/supplements/antioxidants/ala-alcvita.aspx > > > > > > to see results, some might have to take more. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am on T-Cyp shots so I cant help you out on the > cream > > > other than this. I thought I was going to lose my > insurance > > > last year. I found this online http://www.hormonesolutions.com.au/ > > > > > > > > > > > > It is a cream that is applied to the scrotum and it s > says > > > 1 tube last 7 -14 weeks @ $100 a tube, depending on > the > > > dose. I dont know anything about the product and never > used > > > it. I was just looking for alternatives in case I > didnt have > > > insurance and it looked like a good option. > > > > > > > > > > > > You need to get control of the estradiol. > > > > > > > > > > > > Finally, it take time to get it all figuered out. > This > > > group helped me out a lot. Without it, I wouldnt have > know > > > about e2, HCG, ejaculate differences and more. I am > still > > > looking and learning > > > > > > > > > > > > B > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I use " Liposomal 10% testosterone gel " which I > believe > > > is compounded, but it's extremely expensive. I usually > pay > > > $400 USD for 2 containers. They last like... I don't > know... > > > 4-6 weeks each? I am not sure. But anyway... How can > they > > > mix it wrong when they specialize in this, and > everything > > > looks so professional? And it's so expensive? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it dangerous to have a high estradiol? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And why do I feel my testicles getting smaller > after > > > being on testosteorne gel since May? I also notice I > have > > > about 70% less ejaculate. I mean, shouldn't the gel > improve > > > my health rather than making it worse? I never had > ANY > > > problems with erections, and my testis always had a > good > > > size, and I always had a lot of ejaculate. I don't > get > > > this!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > T. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â > > > Â Â Â Â > > > > > > Â Â > > > Â Â > > > > > > > > >Â > > > > > > > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2010 Report Share Posted August 1, 2010 Phil, That life extension article made me worried, cause I believe this is what's happening to me.. Lower T and higher E1 & E2.. My doc is on a vacation for all of August, so.. I can't get him to help me til sometime in early September. What do I do? Wuold increasing DHEA help? I took 35 mg daily, then quit, then lowered the dose to 35 mg every other day which is the dose I am on now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2010 Report Share Posted August 1, 2010 I am not sure what S-T is and the range is some thing I have not seen before. Still the levels came way up did you do the labs in the morning before putting on the gel. If not if you put on the gel and do your labs it can spike up your labs. I think I told you this all ready if I did sorry. I have a hard time keeping up with posts I talk to so many people. Estrone E1 here we don't test it's a test for women when men need to get there E2 Estradiol levels down the rest of the E's will follow and find there place. Lets look at this E2 thing this way do you get night time and morning involuntary nocturnal erections that appear during REM (Rapid Eye Movement) sleep. I call this wood if you don't get them I am betting your E2 levels are to high. And if you have ED and a very low libido this can be from high E2 levels. Men going on TRT can end up with higher levels I gage my E2 levels by my night time and morning wood and if I get sore or hard nipples or ED feel hot and sweat easy it's high E2. But this is only if your did your labs before putting on the gels. If you can't do this lab test in the morning put on the gel don't get any on the area they take the blood from and do your labs 6 hrs later. Co-Moderator Phil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: master_trancer <master_trancer@...> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Latest bloodwork! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Friday, July 30, 2010, 6:49 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had the same problem with ejaculate > > > > > > > volume after being on TRT for a while. It was > also > > > very > > > > > > > thick. I am not sure if all men on TRT have the > same > > > problem > > > > > > > as a side effect or not. I found some > information > > > about it > > > > > > > and decided to try taking ALA/ALC and it really > > > helped. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It took about a whole months supply before I > noticed > > > any > > > > > > > difference but it did work for me. The volume > and > > > viscosity > > > > > > > I would say are normal now and seems to improve > as > > > time goes > > > > > > > by. I only had to take 1050mg/450mg of this brand > http://www.vitabase.com/supplements/antioxidants/ala-alcvita.aspx > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to see results, some might have to take more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am on T-Cyp shots so I cant help you out on > the > > > cream > > > > > > > other than this. I thought I was going to lose > my > > > insurance > > > > > > > last year. I found this online http://www.hormonesolutions.com.au/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is a cream that is applied to the scrotum and > it s > > > says > > > > > > > 1 tube last 7 -14 weeks @ $100 a tube, depending > on > > > the > > > > > > > dose. I dont know anything about the product and > never > > > used > > > > > > > it. I was just looking for alternatives in case > I > > > didnt have > > > > > > > insurance and it looked like a good option. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You need to get control of the estradiol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Finally, it take time to get it all figuered > out. > > > This > > > > > > > group helped me out a lot. Without it, I wouldnt > have > > > know > > > > > > > about e2, HCG, ejaculate differences and more. I > am > > > still > > > > > > > looking and learning > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > B > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I use " Liposomal 10% testosterone gel " which > I > > > believe > > > > > > > is compounded, but it's extremely expensive. I > usually > > > pay > > > > > > > $400 USD for 2 containers. They last like... I > don't > > > know... > > > > > > > 4-6 weeks each? I am not sure. But anyway... How > can > > > they > > > > > > > mix it wrong when they specialize in this, and > > > everything > > > > > > > looks so professional? And it's so expensive? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it dangerous to have a high estradiol? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And why do I feel my testicles getting > smaller > > > after > > > > > > > being on testosteorne gel since May? I also > notice I > > > have > > > > > > > about 70% less ejaculate. I mean, shouldn't the > gel > > > improve > > > > > > > my health rather than making it worse? I never > had > > > ANY > > > > > > > problems with erections, and my testis always had > a > > > good > > > > > > > size, and I always had a lot of ejaculate. I > don't > > > get > > > > > > > this!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > T. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2010 Report Share Posted August 1, 2010 Hi Phil, For my first test, I didn't use testosterone. For my second test, after being on the gel for 6 weeks, I skipped applying the gel the morning of the blood draw of course. But I applied it in the EVENING (around midnight) instead of in the morning, 2 nights before the blood draw, as per instructions of Dr. Hertoghe. He wants his patients to apply the gel in the evening 3 nights before blood draw, but I did it 2 nights only. Don't know if that makes any difference. Do you guys also put it on in the evening instead of morning 3 nights before the blood draw? I don't know what REM really is, but... I do sleep ok most nights, and sometimes I wake up with morning wood. But I did that before testosterone gel treatment started too. After I started the treatment, I think it happened a bit more often (like twice a week or something). Now, it doesn't happen as often again. I feel something is weird down there. It doesn't feel right. Ah, I figured out what ED means. I do feel I have more ED now.. Never had ED before, ever. Period. And it just worries me a lot when I have a lot less ejaculate all of a sudden as I've had in the last 7 days or so. Can't talk to Hertoghe til September, so I don't know what to do to get my E2 down. Cause it seems too high. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: master_trancer <master_trancer@...> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Latest bloodwork! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Friday, July 30, 2010, 6:49 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Â > > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â > > > > > > > Â Â Â > > > > > > > Â Â Â > > > > > > > Â Â Â I had the same problem with ejaculate > > > > > > > volume after being on TRT for a while. It was > also > > > very > > > > > > > thick. I am not sure if all men on TRT have the > same > > > problem > > > > > > > as a side effect or not. I found some > information > > > about it > > > > > > > and decided to try taking ALA/ALC and it really > > > helped. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It took about a whole months supply before I > noticed > > > any > > > > > > > difference but it did work for me. The volume > and > > > viscosity > > > > > > > I would say are normal now and seems to improve > as > > > time goes > > > > > > > by. I only had to take 1050mg/450mg of this brand > http://www.vitabase.com/supplements/antioxidants/ala-alcvita.aspx > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to see results, some might have to take more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am on T-Cyp shots so I cant help you out on > the > > > cream > > > > > > > other than this. I thought I was going to lose > my > > > insurance > > > > > > > last year. I found this online http://www.hormonesolutions.com.au/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is a cream that is applied to the scrotum and > it s > > > says > > > > > > > 1 tube last 7 -14 weeks @ $100 a tube, depending > on > > > the > > > > > > > dose. I dont know anything about the product and > never > > > used > > > > > > > it. I was just looking for alternatives in case > I > > > didnt have > > > > > > > insurance and it looked like a good option. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You need to get control of the estradiol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Finally, it take time to get it all figuered > out. > > > This > > > > > > > group helped me out a lot. Without it, I wouldnt > have > > > know > > > > > > > about e2, HCG, ejaculate differences and more. I > am > > > still > > > > > > > looking and learning > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > B > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I use " Liposomal 10% testosterone gel " which > I > > > believe > > > > > > > is compounded, but it's extremely expensive. I > usually > > > pay > > > > > > > $400 USD for 2 containers. They last like... I > don't > > > know... > > > > > > > 4-6 weeks each? I am not sure. But anyway... How > can > > > they > > > > > > > mix it wrong when they specialize in this, and > > > everything > > > > > > > looks so professional? And it's so expensive? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it dangerous to have a high estradiol? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And why do I feel my testicles getting > smaller > > > after > > > > > > > being on testosteorne gel since May? I also > notice I > > > have > > > > > > > about 70% less ejaculate. I mean, shouldn't the > gel > > > improve > > > > > > > my health rather than making it worse? I never > had > > > ANY > > > > > > > problems with erections, and my testis always had > a > > > good > > > > > > > size, and I always had a lot of ejaculate. I > don't > > > get > > > > > > > this!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > T. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â > > > > > > > Â Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2010 Report Share Posted August 1, 2010 No don't do a lot of DHEA to much will convert into Estradiol E2 can you by some DIM Indolplex/DIM here is a copy of a file I made about it. Also if you can get on some Zinc this helps lower Estradiol try taking 50 mgs of Zinc with 2 mgs of Copper. You need Copper with Zinc because Zinc will lower Copper levels. All men need more Zinc it's good for your testis health. ==================================================== ALL ABOUT DIM. Sure here is a few links that are all about it. But there are a lot of Co.'s out there selling DIM that don't work well. Indolplex/DIM is the best it dose not get killed in your stomach when you take it. Diindolylmethane (DIM) is a stable indole found in cruciferous vegetables which promotes a beneficial estrogen metabolism in both women and men. http://www.dimfaq.com/index.htm in this link it's full of links about it. http://qualitycounts.com/fpdim.html http://www.jbc.org/content/278/23/21136.full If you have DIM in caps it's not Indolplex so to take this and to get it to work open the cap pore the DIM into a spoon add some Olive oil and take it this helps to keep it from getting killed in your stomach. The following is some links to where you can buy Indolplex/DIM. http://www.vitaglo.com/e5336.html http://www.vitacost.com/EnzymaticTherapyEstroBalancewithDIM/searchby-PN/searchte\ xt-dim http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0 http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0 http://www.estrobalance.net/ http://www.easyhealthzone.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=PP0108 & click=71 http://www.nbizz.com/longevityclinic/listings/213.html http://www.drugnatural.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD & Store_Code=DMOS & Product_\ Code=156497 http://www.smartbomb.com/itindo9.html?utm_source=mercent & utm_medium=shopcompare & \ utm_content=itindo9 & utm_campaign=mbsdb & mr:trackingCode=C6AEFBD1-E681-DE11-B7F3-0\ 019B9C043EB & mr:referralID=NA http://www.ritecare.com/cgi-bin/cart.pl?db=product_db.dat & category=natural+medic\ ine & method=any_words & search=iti-75336 http://www.naturamart.com/phytopharmica-pms-formula-with-indoplex-120-caps.html How to take Indolplex/DIM take one tablet 120 mgs at dinner time it can take 2 weeks to 2 months to get your Estradiol levels down it’s all about how high you are in your levels. What you need to do is get this down to about 20 pg/ml. When you get this low your night time and morning wood will come back so strong it will wake you up this means most of the time your at your best levels or what I call the sweet spot. Keep taking the DIM but if your wood stops your going down to low so just stop taking it. The day your wood comes back go back on the DIM but cut the tablet in half. If your Testosterone was tested and low but your not on TRT get it tested again you might find your levels came up some 200 to 300 points. http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174 Co-Moderator Phil > From: Gibcast <gibcast@...> > Subject: Re: Latest bloodwork! > > Date: Sunday, August 1, 2010, 6:08 AM > Phil, > That life extension article made me worried, cause I > believe this is what's happening to me.. Lower T and higher > E1 & E2.. My doc is on a vacation for all of August, > so.. I can't get him to help me til sometime in early > September. What do I do? > Wuold increasing DHEA help? I took 35 mg daily, then quit, > then lowered the dose to 35 mg every other day which is the > dose I am on now. > > > >    > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2010 Report Share Posted August 1, 2010 Here in the USA men on gels or creams put them on in the morning after a shower. It's best to take a shower in the morning of your labs and not put on the gel or cream then do labs after the blood is taken put it on. Now if you did not do the gel for 2 days and did not shower it off and where they stick you for the blood some of the gel is on that area it will still spike up your labs. Most men put on the gel in the morning doing it at night can keep you up all night. In my last post to you I told you about DIM and Zinc see if you can take this now can't hurt you. Co-Moderator Phil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: master_trancer <master_trancer@...> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Latest > bloodwork! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Friday, July 30, 2010, 6:49 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had the same problem with > ejaculate > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > volume after being on TRT for a while. It > was > > > also > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thick. I am not sure if all men on TRT have > the > > > same > > > > > > > problem > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as a side effect or not. I found some > > > information > > > > > > > about it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and decided to try taking ALA/ALC and it > really > > > > > > > helped. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It took about a whole months supply before > I > > > noticed > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > difference but it did work for me. The > volume > > > and > > > > > > > viscosity > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would say are normal now and seems to > improve > > > as > > > > > > > time goes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > by. I only had to take 1050mg/450mg of this > brand > > > http://www.vitabase.com/supplements/antioxidants/ala-alcvita.aspx > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to see results, some might have to take > more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am on T-Cyp shots so I cant help you out > on > > > the > > > > > > > cream > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > other than this. I thought I was going to > lose > > > my > > > > > > > insurance > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > last year. I found this online http://www.hormonesolutions.com.au/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is a cream that is applied to the scrotum > and > > > it s > > > > > > > says > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 tube last 7 -14 weeks @ $100 a tube, > depending > > > on > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dose. I dont know anything about the product > and > > > never > > > > > > > used > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it. I was just looking for alternatives in > case > > > I > > > > > > > didnt have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > insurance and it looked like a good option. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You need to get control of the estradiol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Finally, it take time to get it all > figuered > > > out. > > > > > > > This > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > group helped me out a lot. Without it, I > wouldnt > > > have > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > about e2, HCG, ejaculate differences and > more. I > > > am > > > > > > > still > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > looking and learning > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > B > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I use " Liposomal 10% testosterone gel " > which > > > I > > > > > > > believe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is compounded, but it's extremely expensive. > I > > > usually > > > > > > > pay > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > $400 USD for 2 containers. They last like... > I > > > don't > > > > > > > know... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4-6 weeks each? I am not sure. But anyway... > How > > > can > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mix it wrong when they specialize in this, > and > > > > > > > everything > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > looks so professional? And it's so > expensive? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it dangerous to have a high > estradiol? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And why do I feel my testicles getting > > > smaller > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > being on testosteorne gel since May? I also > > > notice I > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > about 70% less ejaculate. I mean, shouldn't > the > > > gel > > > > > > > improve > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my health rather than making it worse? I > never > > > had > > > > > > > ANY > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > problems with erections, and my testis > always had > > > a > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > size, and I always had a lot of ejaculate. > I > > > don't > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > T. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have > been > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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