Re: Need advice - pssd, hypogonadism, gynecomastia

July 30, 2010

Hi Tom and Welcome,

Are you saying your Post-SSRI sexual dysfunction (PSSD).

If so I don't feel the supplements you took gave you gyno. It's high Estradiol

levels that do this and your labs are from 2 diff. labs and the units are not

the same still big drop in levels.

Your labs don't make sense to me never seen this happen but most men don't do

labs one week apart.

On your 2nd. set of labs your low with your LH and FSH on the low side this

tells me your pituitary is not telling your Testis your low on Testosterone by

sending more LH and FSH them numbers should be at the top of the range if your

testis were not working. I wish you did Estradiol on this test too.

I would wait and see what your Endo says they are better Dr. in your Country

then they are here.

There is a forum for PSSD here is a link.

/

I would redo them labs with your Endo.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Tom Czapski <czapskich@...>

> Subject: Need advice - pssd, hypogonadism, gynecomastia

>

> Date: Friday, July 30, 2010, 2:29 PM

> Hi everyone,

>

> 29 y old, PSSD sufferer after 7 years on Zoloft as a help

> to chronical fatigue syndrome. During Zoloft I got lower

> libido, low sensation/pleasure from sexual act, but not

> serious sexual problems. After quitting Zoloft, sensation

> came back, libido a little better, but I became almost

> complete impotent. At the moment 6 months SSRI free. Able to

> have sex only with Viagra and even that didnt guarantee long

> effect. 2 months ago started to take Tyrosine and 5-HTP

> (this boosts Serotonine as Zoloft does, but in different

> mechanisms). After a week started to take 5-HTP before

> bedtime on empty stomach and next morning I got my first

> morning wood (not after viagra nights) strong as in high

> schol. Next weeks I saw much improvement in erections, in

> mornings at leat half-erections, sometimes able to have

> sex without viagra, and even with viagra results were

> much better than before. No side effects of lower pleasuer.

> After a month first signs of Gynecomastia appeared, I

> misjudged them as aquiring fat. After second month I noticed

> what Gyno is, dropped all drugs - it was a week ago. No

> improvement since than. My gino is at least average, ashamed

> to wear shirts, left breast is bigger than right and hurts.

>

> What's interesting..

>

> I made two hormonal tests in two different labs, both in

> the mornings on empty stomach.

>

> First, one week ago, day after dropping 5-HTP and Tyrosine

>

> Estradiol 20 pg/ml normal value: max 56,00

> Prolactine 9,2 ng/ml normal value: 2,5-17,00

> Testosteron 648 ng/dl normal value:

> 262,00-1593,00

> Testosteron free (this result got today, as they made the

> send it to lab in other city /the same company/ )

> 17,32 pg/ml normal value 4,0-42

>

> Two days ago, five days after dropping got such results

>

> LH 2,4 mlU/ml reference value 2,0-12,0

> FSH 4,27 mlU/ml reference value 1,0-8,0

> Testosterone 2,73 ng/ml reference value

> 1,95-11,38

> Progesterone 0,59 ng/ml reference value

> <3,37

>

> (reference value is where 95% in this lab are between, so

> 2,5% are lower than minimal)

>

> On monday I will get another tests, this time full 6-7

> hormons at once and in the monday evening i'm going to

> endocrynologist.

>

> is this possible to get 2 such different results in 5 days

> span (more that 2 times lower test) - first results are

> almost perfect, second shows hypogonadism?

>

> My hypothesis after analysing this result, is that after

> long period of Zoloft in some hard to explain way, I need

> extra serotonine for pituary gland to have any production of

> hormons. 5-htp mimicked this effect and boosted indirectly

> testosteron, which normally is not the case. Without extra

> serotoine, I have levels and symptoms of hypogonadism.

>

> from my experience I do not expect a lot from my endo on

> monday, as docs do not do well with such specifis cases.

> What should i try to convince him to do, as I suppose he

> will advise waiting for gyno to disappear naturally.

>

> Try Tamoxifen or Clomid? May it make gyno smaller or gives

> guarantee of no further damage? Month after first sings, 10

> days ago it got to current level.

>

> Boost testosterone - androgel, injections or hCG ? Surely

> will help with erection but gyno will be worse?

>

> Wait taking nothing for months and than have surgery for

> months, and live with Viagra for years hoping it will

> work not messing with my awful hormon levels?

>

> I know you cant guarantee my anyting, or take

> responsibility for my further steps, but I would be very

> grateful for advice. I see a lot of You with knowledge and

> experience, and I m pretty sure, know more about complicated

> case that most of endocrynologist in my country.

>

> Thank You in Advance

>

> ------------------------------------

>

July 30, 2010

Thanks for quick response. I'm already member of PSSD group, but with my last

hormon results I felt that I need some knowledge in this area from more

conventional " hormonal " point of view, as PSSD is at the moment still rather

bunch of symptoms, we dont know anything about etiology or dont have any at

least partially successful treatments. And most PSSD sufferers do not have

abnormal testosterone levels. To make my picture more complete, I must say that

pre-Zoloft I was rather low testosterone guy - i'm tall, but slim bones, weak

facial hair (still can shave myself once in 2-3 days) and some other symptoms of

low testosterone.

I know that I need to do now more complete labs, maybe even twice.

I would be grateful for Your answer for my two questions:

can Estradiol create my gino even if that results (absolutely normal - low-mid

range) were correct (this lab was taken at the peak of gyno)?

should I concentrate on fighting on gyno, or rather get used to it as it is too

late and think rather about balancing my hormones and recover sexual functions?

>

> > From: Tom Czapski <czapskich@...>

> > Subject: Need advice - pssd, hypogonadism, gynecomastia

> >

> > Date: Friday, July 30, 2010, 2:29 PM

> > Hi everyone,

> >

> > 29 y old, PSSD sufferer after 7 years on Zoloft as a help

> > to chronical fatigue syndrome. During Zoloft I got lower

> > libido, low sensation/pleasure from sexual act, but not

> > serious sexual problems. After quitting Zoloft, sensation

> > came back, libido a little better, but I became almost

> > complete impotent. At the moment 6 months SSRI free. Able to

> > have sex only with Viagra and even that didnt guarantee long

> > effect. 2 months ago started to take Tyrosine and 5-HTP

> > (this boosts Serotonine as Zoloft does, but in different

> > mechanisms). After a week started to take 5-HTP before

> > bedtime on empty stomach and next morning I got my first

> > morning wood (not after viagra nights) strong as in high

> > schol. Next weeks I saw much improvement in erections, in

> > mornings at leat half-erections, sometimes able to have

> > sex without viagra, and even with viagra results were

> > much better than before. No side effects of lower pleasuer.

> > After a month first signs of Gynecomastia appeared, I

> > misjudged them as aquiring fat. After second month I noticed

> > what Gyno is, dropped all drugs - it was a week ago. No

> > improvement since than. My gino is at least average, ashamed

> > to wear shirts, left breast is bigger than right and hurts.

> >

> > What's interesting..

> >

> > I made two hormonal tests in two different labs, both in

> > the mornings on empty stomach.

> >

> > First, one week ago, day after dropping 5-HTP and Tyrosine

> >

> > Estradiol 20 pg/ml normal value: max 56,00

> > Prolactine 9,2 ng/ml normal value: 2,5-17,00

> > Testosteron 648 ng/dl normal value:

> > 262,00-1593,00

> > Testosteron free (this result got today, as they made the

> > send it to lab in other city /the same company/ )

> > 17,32 pg/ml normal value 4,0-42

> >

> > Two days ago, five days after dropping got such results

> >

> > LH 2,4 mlU/ml reference value 2,0-12,0

> > FSH 4,27 mlU/ml reference value 1,0-8,0

> > Testosterone 2,73 ng/ml reference value

> > 1,95-11,38

> > Progesterone 0,59 ng/ml reference value

> > <3,37

> >

> > (reference value is where 95% in this lab are between, so

> > 2,5% are lower than minimal)

> >

> > On monday I will get another tests, this time full 6-7

> > hormons at once and in the monday evening i'm going to

> > endocrynologist.

> >

> > is this possible to get 2 such different results in 5 days

> > span (more that 2 times lower test) - first results are

> > almost perfect, second shows hypogonadism?

> >

> > My hypothesis after analysing this result, is that after

> > long period of Zoloft in some hard to explain way, I need

> > extra serotonine for pituary gland to have any production of

> > hormons. 5-htp mimicked this effect and boosted indirectly

> > testosteron, which normally is not the case. Without extra

> > serotoine, I have levels and symptoms of hypogonadism.

> >

> > from my experience I do not expect a lot from my endo on

> > monday, as docs do not do well with such specifis cases.

> > What should i try to convince him to do, as I suppose he

> > will advise waiting for gyno to disappear naturally.

> >

> > Try Tamoxifen or Clomid? May it make gyno smaller or gives

> > guarantee of no further damage? Month after first sings, 10

> > days ago it got to current level.

> >

> > Boost testosterone - androgel, injections or hCG ? Surely

> > will help with erection but gyno will be worse?

> >

> > Wait taking nothing for months and than have surgery for

> > months, and live with Viagra for years hoping it will

> > work not messing with my awful hormon levels?

> >

> > I know you cant guarantee my anyting, or take

> > responsibility for my further steps, but I would be very

> > grateful for advice. I see a lot of You with knowledge and

> > experience, and I m pretty sure, know more about complicated

> > case that most of endocrynologist in my country.

> >

> > Thank You in Advance

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

July 30, 2010

When it comes to Gyno is it fat, water or tissue. If it's tissue only way to

get it down is surgery. If it's fat or water it can be Estradiol levels or big

swings in Testosterone levels. Men when they first go on TRT can get sore and

hard nipples from the change in there Testosterone levels this has to do with

Gyno.

I can't say what is going on with you you stopped doing a few supplements but

your not off them long enough for your body to settle down from the change in

them. I tell people when they make a change in supplements or meds to give it

at least a month.

When I first got sick I was put on AD meds for 5 yrs every dam med you could

think of. Then Prozac come out and I was put on this it slowed down my Voiding

and I got a bladder infection and was sent to see a Uro. This Dr. told me he

feels I have low Testosterone that I am not suffering from Major Depression. I

was on so much crap I needed to go into a Hosp. to get off it. I was off work

more then I was at work and when I went on TRT I felt better and was able to

keep working again.

Still Dr.'s had is wrong I was told I am Primary meaning my Testis don't work

it's been 29 yrs now I have been on TRT and in the last 6 yrs we found out I am

Secondary it's call Hypopituitary and it's from a bad Auto Accident where I had

a head injury.

So all them AD meds did for me is make me feel worse. I was at that link when

they started the group. Still today Dr.'s don't know how to handle this problem

if you redo your labs and your low go on TRT this is the only way your going to

feel better. I feel most men that get put on AD meds were not Depressed they

just have low Testosterone.

I can't understand how you can test this way in less then a week. But I see

labs mess up all the time and it can be lab error.

Go to www.allthingsmale.com and read TRT: A Recipe for Success in this are labs

you need and why.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Tom Czapski <czapskich@...>

> Subject: Re: Need advice - pssd, hypogonadism, gynecomastia

>

> Date: Friday, July 30, 2010, 3:16 PM

> Thanks for quick response. I'm

> already member of PSSD group, but with my last hormon

> results I felt that I need some knowledge in this area from

> more conventional " hormonal " point of view, as PSSD is at

> the moment still rather bunch of symptoms, we dont know

> anything about etiology or dont have any at least partially

> successful treatments. And most PSSD sufferers do not have

> abnormal testosterone levels. To make my picture more

> complete, I must say that pre-Zoloft I was rather low

> testosterone guy - i'm tall, but slim bones, weak facial

> hair (still can shave myself once in 2-3 days) and some

> other symptoms of low testosterone.

>

> I know that I need to do now more complete labs, maybe even

> twice.

>

> I would be grateful for Your answer for my two questions:

>

> can Estradiol create my gino even if that results

> (absolutely normal - low-mid range) were correct (this lab

> was taken at the peak of gyno)?

>

> should I concentrate on fighting on gyno, or rather get

> used to it as it is too late and think rather about

> balancing my hormones and recover sexual functions?

>

> >

> > > From: Tom Czapski <czapskich@...>

> > > Subject: Need advice - pssd,

> hypogonadism, gynecomastia

> > >

> > > Date: Friday, July 30, 2010, 2:29 PM

> > > Hi everyone,

> > >

> > > 29 y old, PSSD sufferer after 7 years on Zoloft

> as a help

> > > to chronical fatigue syndrome. During Zoloft I

> got lower

> > > libido, low sensation/pleasure from sexual act,

> but not

> > > serious sexual problems. After quitting Zoloft,

> sensation

> > > came back, libido a little better, but I became

> almost

> > > complete impotent. At the moment 6 months SSRI

> free. Able to

> > > have sex only with Viagra and even that didnt

> guarantee long

> > > effect. 2 months ago started to take Tyrosine and

> 5-HTP

> > > (this boosts Serotonine as Zoloft does, but in

> different

> > > mechanisms). After a week started to take 5-HTP

> before

> > > bedtime on empty stomach and next morning I got

> my first

> > > morning wood (not after viagra nights) strong as

> in high

> > > schol. Next weeks I saw much improvement in

> erections, in

> > > mornings at leat half-erections, sometimes able

> to have

> > > sex without viagra, and even with viagra

> results were

> > > much better than before. No side effects of lower

> pleasuer.

> > > After a month first signs of Gynecomastia

> appeared, I

> > > misjudged them as aquiring fat. After second

> month I noticed

> > > what Gyno is, dropped all drugs - it was a week

> ago. No

> > > improvement since than. My gino is at least

> average, ashamed

> > > to wear shirts, left breast is bigger than right

> and hurts.

> > >

> > > What's interesting..

> > >

> > > I made two hormonal tests in two different labs,

> both in

> > > the mornings on empty stomach.

> > >

> > > First, one week ago, day after dropping 5-HTP and

> Tyrosine

> > >

> > > Estradiol 20 pg/ml normal value: max 56,00

> > > Prolactine 9,2 ng/ml normal value: 2,5-17,00

> > > Testosteron 648 ng/dl normal value:

> > > 262,00-1593,00

> > > Testosteron free (this result got today, as they

> made the

> > > send it to lab in other city /the same company/

> )

> > > 17,32 pg/ml normal value 4,0-42

> > >

> > > Two days ago, five days after dropping got such

> results

> > >

> > > LH 2,4 mlU/ml reference value 2,0-12,0

> > > FSH 4,27 mlU/ml reference value 1,0-8,0

> > > Testosterone 2,73 ng/ml reference value

> > > 1,95-11,38

> > > Progesterone 0,59 ng/ml reference value

> > > <3,37

> > >

> > > (reference value is where 95% in this lab are

> between, so

> > > 2,5% are lower than minimal)

> > >

> > > On monday I will get another tests, this time

> full 6-7

> > > hormons at once and in the monday evening i'm

> going to

> > > endocrynologist.

> > >

> > > is this possible to get 2 such different results

> in 5 days

> > > span (more that 2 times lower test) - first

> results are

> > > almost perfect, second shows hypogonadism?

> > >

> > > My hypothesis after analysing this result, is

> that after

> > > long period of Zoloft in some hard to explain

> way, I need

> > > extra serotonine for pituary gland to have any

> production of

> > > hormons. 5-htp mimicked this effect and boosted

> indirectly

> > > testosteron, which normally is not the case.

> Without extra

> > > serotoine, I have levels and symptoms of

> hypogonadism.

> > >

> > > from my experience I do not expect a lot from my

> endo on

> > > monday, as docs do not do well with such specifis

> cases.

> > > What should i try to convince him to do, as I

> suppose he

> > > will advise waiting for gyno to disappear

> naturally.

> > >

> > > Try Tamoxifen or Clomid? May it make gyno smaller

> or gives

> > > guarantee of no further damage? Month after first

> sings, 10

> > > days ago it got to current level.

> > >

> > > Boost testosterone - androgel, injections or hCG

> ? Surely

> > > will help with erection but gyno will be worse?

> > >

> > > Wait taking nothing for months and than have

> surgery for

> > > months, and live with Viagra for years hoping

> it will

> > > work not messing with my awful hormon levels?

> > >

> > > I know you cant guarantee my anyting, or take

> > > responsibility for my further steps, but I would

> be very

> > > grateful for advice. I see a lot of You with

> knowledge and

> > > experience, and I m pretty sure, know more about

> complicated

> > > case that most of endocrynologist in my country.

> > >

> > > Thank You in Advance

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

July 30, 2010

When You write " breast tissue " , You mean " gland " ? From what I read in forums,

most tell that in fact gland/tissue cant get smaller, maybe in very very

beginnings. But in a few scientific articles there was thesis that breast gland

become firm after 6-12 months of gynecomastia, before that it can " shrink "

significantly (of course not always or even very often) after quting

culprit-drug, taking SERM or achieving balance in hormones.

I m pretty nervous about gyno, even my ED didnt make me so depressed, as onset

of gyno...

> > >

> > > > From: Tom Czapski <czapskich@>

> > > > Subject: Need advice - pssd,

> > hypogonadism, gynecomastia

> > > >

> > > > Date: Friday, July 30, 2010, 2:29 PM

> > > > Hi everyone,

> > > >

> > > > 29 y old, PSSD sufferer after 7 years on Zoloft

> > as a help

> > > > to chronical fatigue syndrome. During Zoloft I

> > got lower

> > > > libido, low sensation/pleasure from sexual act,

> > but not

> > > > serious sexual problems. After quitting Zoloft,

> > sensation

> > > > came back, libido a little better, but I became

> > almost

> > > > complete impotent. At the moment 6 months SSRI

> > free. Able to

> > > > have sex only with Viagra and even that didnt

> > guarantee long

> > > > effect. 2 months ago started to take Tyrosine and

> > 5-HTP

> > > > (this boosts Serotonine as Zoloft does, but in

> > different

> > > > mechanisms). After a week started to take 5-HTP

> > before

> > > > bedtime on empty stomach and next morning I got

> > my first

> > > > morning wood (not after viagra nights) strong as

> > in high

> > > > schol. Next weeks I saw much improvement in

> > erections, in

> > > > mornings at leat half-erections, sometimes able

> > to have

> > > > sex without viagra, and even with viagra

> > results were

> > > > much better than before. No side effects of lower

> > pleasuer.

> > > > After a month first signs of Gynecomastia

> > appeared, I

> > > > misjudged them as aquiring fat. After second

> > month I noticed

> > > > what Gyno is, dropped all drugs - it was a week

> > ago. No

> > > > improvement since than. My gino is at least

> > average, ashamed

> > > > to wear shirts, left breast is bigger than right

> > and hurts.

> > > >

> > > > What's interesting..

> > > >

> > > > I made two hormonal tests in two different labs,

> > both in

> > > > the mornings on empty stomach.

> > > >

> > > > First, one week ago, day after dropping 5-HTP and

> > Tyrosine

> > > >

> > > > Estradiol 20 pg/ml normal value: max 56,00

> > > > Prolactine 9,2 ng/ml normal value: 2,5-17,00

> > > > Testosteron 648 ng/dl normal value:

> > > > 262,00-1593,00

> > > > Testosteron free (this result got today, as they

> > made the

> > > > send it to lab in other city /the same company/

> > )

> > > > 17,32 pg/ml normal value 4,0-42

> > > >

> > > > Two days ago, five days after dropping got such

> > results

> > > >

> > > > LH 2,4 mlU/ml reference value 2,0-12,0

> > > > FSH 4,27 mlU/ml reference value 1,0-8,0

> > > > Testosterone 2,73 ng/ml reference value

> > > > 1,95-11,38

> > > > Progesterone 0,59 ng/ml reference value

> > > > <3,37

> > > >

> > > > (reference value is where 95% in this lab are

> > between, so

> > > > 2,5% are lower than minimal)

> > > >

> > > > On monday I will get another tests, this time

> > full 6-7

> > > > hormons at once and in the monday evening i'm

> > going to

> > > > endocrynologist.

> > > >

> > > > is this possible to get 2 such different results

> > in 5 days

> > > > span (more that 2 times lower test) - first

> > results are

> > > > almost perfect, second shows hypogonadism?

> > > >

> > > > My hypothesis after analysing this result, is

> > that after

> > > > long period of Zoloft in some hard to explain

> > way, I need

> > > > extra serotonine for pituary gland to have any

> > production of

> > > > hormons. 5-htp mimicked this effect and boosted

> > indirectly

> > > > testosteron, which normally is not the case.

> > Without extra

> > > > serotoine, I have levels and symptoms of

> > hypogonadism.

> > > >

> > > > from my experience I do not expect a lot from my

> > endo on

> > > > monday, as docs do not do well with such specifis

> > cases.

> > > > What should i try to convince him to do, as I

> > suppose he

> > > > will advise waiting for gyno to disappear

> > naturally.

> > > >

> > > > Try Tamoxifen or Clomid? May it make gyno smaller

> > or gives

> > > > guarantee of no further damage? Month after first

> > sings, 10

> > > > days ago it got to current level.

> > > >

> > > > Boost testosterone - androgel, injections or hCG

> > ? Surely

> > > > will help with erection but gyno will be worse?

> > > >

> > > > Wait taking nothing for months and than have

> > surgery for

> > > > months, and live with Viagra for years hoping

> > it will

> > > > work not messing with my awful hormon levels?

> > > >

> > > > I know you cant guarantee my anyting, or take

> > > > responsibility for my further steps, but I would

> > be very

> > > > grateful for advice. I see a lot of You with

> > knowledge and

> > > > experience, and I m pretty sure, know more about

> > complicated

> > > > case that most of endocrynologist in my country.

> > > >

> > > > Thank You in Advance

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

July 30, 2010

Couple of things you could check are cortisol and thyroid levels. Really low

cortisol is supposed to raise estrogen, and being very low in thyroid can cause

your cortisol to go low over time. Being gaunt looking is a clue your cortisol

is low. Hyperthyroid is also supposed to contribute to gynecomastia, so you'd

certainly want to check Free T3, Free T4, and reverse T3. I would guess you

were hypo though, since you were on SSRIs. Both tyrosine and iodine are

involved in making thyroid hormones.

Barb

> >

> > > From: Tom Czapski <czapskich@>

> > > Subject: Need advice - pssd, hypogonadism, gynecomastia

> > >

> > > Date: Friday, July 30, 2010, 2:29 PM

> > > Hi everyone,

> > >

> > > 29 y old, PSSD sufferer after 7 years on Zoloft as a help

> > > to chronical fatigue syndrome. During Zoloft I got lower

> > > libido, low sensation/pleasure from sexual act, but not

> > > serious sexual problems. After quitting Zoloft, sensation

> > > came back, libido a little better, but I became almost

> > > complete impotent. At the moment 6 months SSRI free. Able to

> > > have sex only with Viagra and even that didnt guarantee long

> > > effect. 2 months ago started to take Tyrosine and 5-HTP

> > > (this boosts Serotonine as Zoloft does, but in different

> > > mechanisms). After a week started to take 5-HTP before

> > > bedtime on empty stomach and next morning I got my first

> > > morning wood (not after viagra nights) strong as in high

> > > schol. Next weeks I saw much improvement in erections, in

> > > mornings at leat half-erections, sometimes able to have

> > > sex without viagra, and even with viagra results were

> > > much better than before. No side effects of lower pleasuer.

> > > After a month first signs of Gynecomastia appeared, I

> > > misjudged them as aquiring fat. After second month I noticed

> > > what Gyno is, dropped all drugs - it was a week ago. No

> > > improvement since than. My gino is at least average, ashamed

> > > to wear shirts, left breast is bigger than right and hurts.

> > >

> > > What's interesting..

> > >

> > > I made two hormonal tests in two different labs, both in

> > > the mornings on empty stomach.

> > >

> > > First, one week ago, day after dropping 5-HTP and Tyrosine

> > >

> > > Estradiol 20 pg/ml normal value: max 56,00

> > > Prolactine 9,2 ng/ml normal value: 2,5-17,00

> > > Testosteron 648 ng/dl normal value:

> > > 262,00-1593,00

> > > Testosteron free (this result got today, as they made the

> > > send it to lab in other city /the same company/ )

> > > 17,32 pg/ml normal value 4,0-42

> > >

> > > Two days ago, five days after dropping got such results

> > >

> > > LH 2,4 mlU/ml reference value 2,0-12,0

> > > FSH 4,27 mlU/ml reference value 1,0-8,0

> > > Testosterone 2,73 ng/ml reference value

> > > 1,95-11,38

> > > Progesterone 0,59 ng/ml reference value

> > > <3,37

> > >

> > > (reference value is where 95% in this lab are between, so

> > > 2,5% are lower than minimal)

> > >

> > > On monday I will get another tests, this time full 6-7

> > > hormons at once and in the monday evening i'm going to

> > > endocrynologist.

> > >

> > > is this possible to get 2 such different results in 5 days

> > > span (more that 2 times lower test) - first results are

> > > almost perfect, second shows hypogonadism?

> > >

> > > My hypothesis after analysing this result, is that after

> > > long period of Zoloft in some hard to explain way, I need

> > > extra serotonine for pituary gland to have any production of

> > > hormons. 5-htp mimicked this effect and boosted indirectly

> > > testosteron, which normally is not the case. Without extra

> > > serotoine, I have levels and symptoms of hypogonadism.

> > >

> > > from my experience I do not expect a lot from my endo on

> > > monday, as docs do not do well with such specifis cases.

> > > What should i try to convince him to do, as I suppose he

> > > will advise waiting for gyno to disappear naturally.

> > >

> > > Try Tamoxifen or Clomid? May it make gyno smaller or gives

> > > guarantee of no further damage? Month after first sings, 10

> > > days ago it got to current level.

> > >

> > > Boost testosterone - androgel, injections or hCG ? Surely

> > > will help with erection but gyno will be worse?

> > >

> > > Wait taking nothing for months and than have surgery for

> > > months, and live with Viagra for years hoping it will

> > > work not messing with my awful hormon levels?

> > >

> > > I know you cant guarantee my anyting, or take

> > > responsibility for my further steps, but I would be very

> > > grateful for advice. I see a lot of You with knowledge and

> > > experience, and I m pretty sure, know more about complicated

> > > case that most of endocrynologist in my country.

> > >

> > > Thank You in Advance

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

July 30, 2010

Some women can tell by feeling it if it's fat or tissue other wise have it

looked at by a Dr. to tell. I am 66 over weight and have what looks like gyno

but it's fat.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Tom Czapski <czapskich@...>

> Subject: Re: Need advice - pssd, hypogonadism, gynecomastia

>

> Date: Friday, July 30, 2010, 4:37 PM

> When You write " breast tissue " , You

> mean " gland " ? From what I read in forums, most tell that in

> fact gland/tissue cant get smaller, maybe in very very

> beginnings. But in a few scientific articles there was

> thesis that breast gland become firm after 6-12 months of

> gynecomastia, before that it can " shrink " significantly (of

> course not always or even very often) after quting

> culprit-drug, taking SERM or achieving balance in hormones.

>

> I m pretty nervous about gyno, even my ED didnt make me so

> depressed, as onset of gyno...

>

> > > >

> > > > > From: Tom Czapski <czapskich@>

> > > > > Subject: Need advice -

> pssd,

> > > hypogonadism, gynecomastia

> > > > >

> > > > > Date: Friday, July 30, 2010, 2:29 PM

> > > > > Hi everyone,

> > > > >

> > > > > 29 y old, PSSD sufferer after 7 years

> on Zoloft

> > > as a help

> > > > > to chronical fatigue syndrome. During

> Zoloft I

> > > got lower

> > > > > libido, low sensation/pleasure from

> sexual act,

> > > but not

> > > > > serious sexual problems. After quitting

> Zoloft,

> > > sensation

> > > > > came back, libido a little better, but

> I became

> > > almost

> > > > > complete impotent. At the moment 6

> months SSRI

> > > free. Able to

> > > > > have sex only with Viagra and even that

> didnt

> > > guarantee long

> > > > > effect. 2 months ago started to take

> Tyrosine and

> > > 5-HTP

> > > > > (this boosts Serotonine as Zoloft does,

> but in

> > > different

> > > > > mechanisms). After a week started to

> take 5-HTP

> > > before

> > > > > bedtime on empty stomach and next

> morning I got

> > > my first

> > > > > morning wood (not after viagra nights)

> strong as

> > > in high

> > > > > schol. Next weeks I saw much

> improvement in

> > > erections, in

> > > > > mornings at leat half-erections,

> sometimes able

> > > to have

> > > > > sex without viagra, and even with

> viagra

> > > results were

> > > > > much better than before. No side

> effects of lower

> > > pleasuer.

> > > > > After a month first signs of

> Gynecomastia

> > > appeared, I

> > > > > misjudged them as aquiring fat. After

> second

> > > month I noticed

> > > > > what Gyno is, dropped all drugs - it

> was a week

> > > ago. No

> > > > > improvement since than. My gino is at

> least

> > > average, ashamed

> > > > > to wear shirts, left breast is bigger

> than right

> > > and hurts.

> > > > >

> > > > > What's interesting..

> > > > >

> > > > > I made two hormonal tests in two

> different labs,

> > > both in

> > > > > the mornings on empty stomach.

> > > > >

> > > > > First, one week ago, day after dropping

> 5-HTP and

> > > Tyrosine

> > > > >

> > > > > Estradiol 20 pg/ml normal value:

> max 56,00

> > > > > Prolactine 9,2 ng/ml normal value:

> 2,5-17,00

> > > > > Testosteron 648 ng/dl normal

> value:

> > > > > 262,00-1593,00

> > > > > Testosteron free (this result got

> today, as they

> > > made the

> > > > > send it to lab in other city /the same

> company/

> > > )

> > > > > 17,32 pg/ml normal value 4,0-42

> > > > >

> > > > > Two days ago, five days after dropping

> got such

> > > results

> > > > >

> > > > > LH 2,4 mlU/ml reference value

> 2,0-12,0

> > > > > FSH 4,27 mlU/ml reference value

> 1,0-8,0

> > > > > Testosterone 2,73 ng/ml reference

> value

> > > > > 1,95-11,38

> > > > > Progesterone 0,59 ng/ml reference

> value

> > > > > <3,37

> > > > >

> > > > > (reference value is where 95% in this

> lab are

> > > between, so

> > > > > 2,5% are lower than minimal)

> > > > >

> > > > > On monday I will get another tests,

> this time

> > > full 6-7

> > > > > hormons at once and in the monday

> evening i'm

> > > going to

> > > > > endocrynologist.

> > > > >

> > > > > is this possible to get 2 such

> different results

> > > in 5 days

> > > > > span (more that 2 times lower test) -

> first

> > > results are

> > > > > almost perfect, second shows

> hypogonadism?

> > > > >

> > > > > My hypothesis after analysing this

> result, is

> > > that after

> > > > > long period of Zoloft in some hard to

> explain

> > > way, I need

> > > > > extra serotonine for pituary gland to

> have any

> > > production of

> > > > > hormons. 5-htp mimicked this effect and

> boosted

> > > indirectly

> > > > > testosteron, which normally is not the

> case.

> > > Without extra

> > > > > serotoine, I have levels and symptoms

> of

> > > hypogonadism.

> > > > >

> > > > > from my experience I do not expect a

> lot from my

> > > endo on

> > > > > monday, as docs do not do well with

> such specifis

> > > cases.

> > > > > What should i try to convince him to

> do, as I

> > > suppose he

> > > > > will advise waiting for gyno to

> disappear

> > > naturally.

> > > > >

> > > > > Try Tamoxifen or Clomid? May it make

> gyno smaller

> > > or gives

> > > > > guarantee of no further damage? Month

> after first

> > > sings, 10

> > > > > days ago it got to current level.

> > > > >

> > > > > Boost testosterone - androgel,

> injections or hCG

> > > ? Surely

> > > > > will help with erection but gyno will

> be worse?

> > > > >

> > > > > Wait taking nothing for months and than

> have

> > > surgery for

> > > > > months, and live with Viagra for

> years hoping

> > > it will

> > > > > work not messing with my awful hormon

> levels?

> > > > >

> > > > > I know you cant guarantee my anyting,

> or take

> > > > > responsibility for my further steps,

> but I would

> > > be very

> > > > > grateful for advice. I see a lot of You

> with

> > > knowledge and

> > > > > experience, and I m pretty sure, know

> more about

> > > complicated

> > > > > case that most of endocrynologist in my

> country.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thank You in Advance

> > > > >

> > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > >

July 30, 2010

Oh, i am pretty sure is gland , left breast still painful in touch, under nipple

i can feel when touching hard " pellet " .

July 31, 2010

It sounds to me like your Estradiol levels are going up they swing up and down

very fast for some men on TRT. Taking some Arimidex most do about .25 mgs every

3 days to keep this down you might want to try this. In my right breast just

off the side of my nipple I have this lump it's very small when my E2 levels are

lower can hardy feel it but when my levels go up it gets sore and bigger. Dr.'s

say it's lump on a gland. I am trying to find it now and can't feel it. I take

Arimidex every day Estradiol for me is a big problem.

There is a lot of posting done about this problem at Dr. 's forum you might

try doing a search over there see if you can find some good info on this and

what men are doing about it.

http://www.musclechatroom.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=2

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Tom Czapski <czapskich@...>

> Subject: Re: Need advice - pssd, hypogonadism, gynecomastia

>

> Date: Friday, July 30, 2010, 4:54 PM

> Oh, i am pretty sure is gland , left

> breast still painful in touch, under nipple i can feel when

> touching hard " pellet " .

>

> ------------------------------------

>

August 17, 2010

Some time ago I put such results here:

" First, one week ago, day after dropping 5-HTP and Tyrosine

Estradiol 20 pg/ml normal value: max 56,00

Prolactine 9,2 ng/ml normal value: 2,5-17,00

Testosteron 648 ng/dl normal value: 262,00-1593,00

Testosteron free (this result got today, as they made the send it to lab in

other city /the same company/ ) 17,32 pg/ml normal value 4,0-42

Two days ago, five days after dropping got such results

LH 2,4 mlU/ml reference value 2,0-12,0

FSH 4,27 mlU/ml reference value 1,0-8,0

Testosterone 2,73 ng/ml reference value 1,95-11,38

Progesterone 0,59 ng/ml reference value <3,37

(reference value is where 95% in this lab are between, so 2,5% are lower than

minimal) "

I got some two extra labs:

First ordered by my endo (After two weeks free of any medicaments), with my gyno

stabilised on average level, and completely low on energy, sexual dysfunctions)

First result mine, second reference value

Estradiol <20 pg/ml <56 pg/ml

FT4 1,42 ng/dl 0,80-1,90

Prolactine 7,1 ng/ml 2,5-17,0

TSH 0,747 ulu/ml 0,400-4,000

Prolactin - 60 min after taking Metaclopramid 80,9 ng/ml

Everything in norm, Prolactin aftet Metaclopromid should raise not more than

600%, (in my case 1100 %), but as the starting level of Proclactine was low Endo

didnt think it was the reason for my gyno.

Then becasue of fatigue I started to take Coaxil, which is SSRE, affects

serotonine, but completely differently than SSRI or 5-HTP, and to help block

gyno I started to take B6. After one day I started to feel more energy, better

with sexual function, but after a few days pain in breast got stronger, and

after a week I notice another enlargment of the breast tissue, so I quit both.

Got labs the day I quit ( in the same lab I got second results with test and lh

very low) and:

LH 1,3 mlU/ml 2,0-12,0

Testosteron 4,98 ng/ml 1,95-11,38

BHCG <2,00 mlU/ml <5,0

So the conclusion on these small basis are:

Antidepressant medicaments affecting serotonine (of different kinds) help me -

in energy department, in general sexual condition, but also result in gyno. My

hormonal labs show, that it can be done by antidepressant affecting testosterone

levels - the act like testosterone boosters. Without them I am hypogonadal,

after taking them close to average. And gyno in this case isnt a mystery - such

swings of testosterone levels affects estrogen and can result in gyno.

I am taken to the clinic in September for a few days, hope to get some

explanations, but for now I have a few questions to the most experienced users:

Anyone heard of serotonine medicaments acting as a testosterone booster?

My jump in testosterone to " close to normal " levels coincided with drop of LH to

abnormally low levels. From what I read, these both levels are mostly

sychronised, not in such way, really cant understand that?

As i said in first post - I took Zoloft for 6,5 years, I suffered from Chronic

Fatigue Syndrome and multiple allergies with also neural symptoms, Zoloft with

Claritine seemed to help me a lot, but Zoloft destroy my sexual functions,

especially after quitting. I have some natural symptoms of low testosterone - I

ve never shaved more than once in 3-4 days (i'm 29y old), almost no hair on

arms, very lean bones, although i m tall 6'3 almost - I have hands not bigger

than my actual ex-girlfriends.

August 17, 2010

Barb, I was on SSRI's for 6 years. Are you saying that these AD's can cause one

to have hypothyroid??

> > >

> > > > From: Tom Czapski <czapskich@>

> > > > Subject: Need advice - pssd, hypogonadism, gynecomastia

> > > >

> > > > Date: Friday, July 30, 2010, 2:29 PM

> > > > Hi everyone,

> > > >

> > > > 29 y old, PSSD sufferer after 7 years on Zoloft as a help

> > > > to chronical fatigue syndrome. During Zoloft I got lower

> > > > libido, low sensation/pleasure from sexual act, but not

> > > > serious sexual problems. After quitting Zoloft, sensation

> > > > came back, libido a little better, but I became almost

> > > > complete impotent. At the moment 6 months SSRI free. Able to

> > > > have sex only with Viagra and even that didnt guarantee long

> > > > effect. 2 months ago started to take Tyrosine and 5-HTP

> > > > (this boosts Serotonine as Zoloft does, but in different

> > > > mechanisms). After a week started to take 5-HTP before

> > > > bedtime on empty stomach and next morning I got my first

> > > > morning wood (not after viagra nights) strong as in high

> > > > schol. Next weeks I saw much improvement in erections, in

> > > > mornings at leat half-erections, sometimes able to have

> > > > sex without viagra, and even with viagra results were

> > > > much better than before. No side effects of lower pleasuer.

> > > > After a month first signs of Gynecomastia appeared, I

> > > > misjudged them as aquiring fat. After second month I noticed

> > > > what Gyno is, dropped all drugs - it was a week ago. No

> > > > improvement since than. My gino is at least average, ashamed

> > > > to wear shirts, left breast is bigger than right and hurts.

> > > >

> > > > What's interesting..

> > > >

> > > > I made two hormonal tests in two different labs, both in

> > > > the mornings on empty stomach.

> > > >

> > > > First, one week ago, day after dropping 5-HTP and Tyrosine

> > > >

> > > > Estradiol 20 pg/ml normal value: max 56,00

> > > > Prolactine 9,2 ng/ml normal value: 2,5-17,00

> > > > Testosteron 648 ng/dl normal value:

> > > > 262,00-1593,00

> > > > Testosteron free (this result got today, as they made the

> > > > send it to lab in other city /the same company/ )

> > > > 17,32 pg/ml normal value 4,0-42

> > > >

> > > > Two days ago, five days after dropping got such results

> > > >

> > > > LH 2,4 mlU/ml reference value 2,0-12,0

> > > > FSH 4,27 mlU/ml reference value 1,0-8,0

> > > > Testosterone 2,73 ng/ml reference value

> > > > 1,95-11,38

> > > > Progesterone 0,59 ng/ml reference value

> > > > <3,37

> > > >

> > > > (reference value is where 95% in this lab are between, so

> > > > 2,5% are lower than minimal)

> > > >

> > > > On monday I will get another tests, this time full 6-7

> > > > hormons at once and in the monday evening i'm going to

> > > > endocrynologist.

> > > >

> > > > is this possible to get 2 such different results in 5 days

> > > > span (more that 2 times lower test) - first results are

> > > > almost perfect, second shows hypogonadism?

> > > >

> > > > My hypothesis after analysing this result, is that after

> > > > long period of Zoloft in some hard to explain way, I need

> > > > extra serotonine for pituary gland to have any production of

> > > > hormons. 5-htp mimicked this effect and boosted indirectly

> > > > testosteron, which normally is not the case. Without extra

> > > > serotoine, I have levels and symptoms of hypogonadism.

> > > >

> > > > from my experience I do not expect a lot from my endo on

> > > > monday, as docs do not do well with such specifis cases.

> > > > What should i try to convince him to do, as I suppose he

> > > > will advise waiting for gyno to disappear naturally.

> > > >

> > > > Try Tamoxifen or Clomid? May it make gyno smaller or gives

> > > > guarantee of no further damage? Month after first sings, 10

> > > > days ago it got to current level.

> > > >

> > > > Boost testosterone - androgel, injections or hCG ? Surely

> > > > will help with erection but gyno will be worse?

> > > >

> > > > Wait taking nothing for months and than have surgery for

> > > > months, and live with Viagra for years hoping it will

> > > > work not messing with my awful hormon levels?

> > > >

> > > > I know you cant guarantee my anyting, or take

> > > > responsibility for my further steps, but I would be very

> > > > grateful for advice. I see a lot of You with knowledge and

> > > > experience, and I m pretty sure, know more about complicated

> > > > case that most of endocrynologist in my country.

> > > >

> > > > Thank You in Advance

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

August 17, 2010

SSRIs are used for depression. Depression has been found to be caused by low

T3, a thyroid hormone. So the answer to your question is the other way around.

You were hypo to start with, which is why you were put on the SSRIs.

Some have been able to get off the SSRIs by taking thyroid meds. But it is a

VERY difficult transition and ideally you'd have a doc help you wean.

> > > >

> > > > > From: Tom Czapski <czapskich@>

> > > > > Subject: Need advice - pssd, hypogonadism, gynecomastia

> > > > >

> > > > > Date: Friday, July 30, 2010, 2:29 PM

> > > > > Hi everyone,

> > > > >

> > > > > 29 y old, PSSD sufferer after 7 years on Zoloft as a help

> > > > > to chronical fatigue syndrome. During Zoloft I got lower

> > > > > libido, low sensation/pleasure from sexual act, but not

> > > > > serious sexual problems. After quitting Zoloft, sensation

> > > > > came back, libido a little better, but I became almost

> > > > > complete impotent. At the moment 6 months SSRI free. Able to

> > > > > have sex only with Viagra and even that didnt guarantee long

> > > > > effect. 2 months ago started to take Tyrosine and 5-HTP

> > > > > (this boosts Serotonine as Zoloft does, but in different

> > > > > mechanisms). After a week started to take 5-HTP before

> > > > > bedtime on empty stomach and next morning I got my first

> > > > > morning wood (not after viagra nights) strong as in high

> > > > > schol. Next weeks I saw much improvement in erections, in

> > > > > mornings at leat half-erections, sometimes able to have

> > > > > sex without viagra, and even with viagra results were

> > > > > much better than before. No side effects of lower pleasuer.

> > > > > After a month first signs of Gynecomastia appeared, I

> > > > > misjudged them as aquiring fat. After second month I noticed

> > > > > what Gyno is, dropped all drugs - it was a week ago. No

> > > > > improvement since than. My gino is at least average, ashamed

> > > > > to wear shirts, left breast is bigger than right and hurts.

> > > > >

> > > > > What's interesting..

> > > > >

> > > > > I made two hormonal tests in two different labs, both in

> > > > > the mornings on empty stomach.

> > > > >

> > > > > First, one week ago, day after dropping 5-HTP and Tyrosine

> > > > >

> > > > > Estradiol 20 pg/ml normal value: max 56,00

> > > > > Prolactine 9,2 ng/ml normal value: 2,5-17,00

> > > > > Testosteron 648 ng/dl normal value:

> > > > > 262,00-1593,00

> > > > > Testosteron free (this result got today, as they made the

> > > > > send it to lab in other city /the same company/ )

> > > > > 17,32 pg/ml normal value 4,0-42

> > > > >

> > > > > Two days ago, five days after dropping got such results

> > > > >

> > > > > LH 2,4 mlU/ml reference value 2,0-12,0

> > > > > FSH 4,27 mlU/ml reference value 1,0-8,0

> > > > > Testosterone 2,73 ng/ml reference value

> > > > > 1,95-11,38

> > > > > Progesterone 0,59 ng/ml reference value

> > > > > <3,37

> > > > >

> > > > > (reference value is where 95% in this lab are between, so

> > > > > 2,5% are lower than minimal)

> > > > >

> > > > > On monday I will get another tests, this time full 6-7

> > > > > hormons at once and in the monday evening i'm going to

> > > > > endocrynologist.

> > > > >

> > > > > is this possible to get 2 such different results in 5 days

> > > > > span (more that 2 times lower test) - first results are

> > > > > almost perfect, second shows hypogonadism?

> > > > >

> > > > > My hypothesis after analysing this result, is that after

> > > > > long period of Zoloft in some hard to explain way, I need

> > > > > extra serotonine for pituary gland to have any production of

> > > > > hormons. 5-htp mimicked this effect and boosted indirectly

> > > > > testosteron, which normally is not the case. Without extra

> > > > > serotoine, I have levels and symptoms of hypogonadism.

> > > > >

> > > > > from my experience I do not expect a lot from my endo on

> > > > > monday, as docs do not do well with such specifis cases.

> > > > > What should i try to convince him to do, as I suppose he

> > > > > will advise waiting for gyno to disappear naturally.

> > > > >

> > > > > Try Tamoxifen or Clomid? May it make gyno smaller or gives

> > > > > guarantee of no further damage? Month after first sings, 10

> > > > > days ago it got to current level.

> > > > >

> > > > > Boost testosterone - androgel, injections or hCG ? Surely

> > > > > will help with erection but gyno will be worse?

> > > > >

> > > > > Wait taking nothing for months and than have surgery for

> > > > > months, and live with Viagra for years hoping it will

> > > > > work not messing with my awful hormon levels?

> > > > >

> > > > > I know you cant guarantee my anyting, or take

> > > > > responsibility for my further steps, but I would be very

> > > > > grateful for advice. I see a lot of You with knowledge and

> > > > > experience, and I m pretty sure, know more about complicated

> > > > > case that most of endocrynologist in my country.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thank You in Advance

> > > > >

> > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > >

August 17, 2010

Tom first let me say your Testosterone levels are very low. I say this because

my labs use to go up to 1593 and your 648 level is way below mid range of 928.

I feel you levels feel because your stress levels shot up you should give your

body time to adjust to a change in supplements or meds before doing labs. I

would not do them for 4 to 8 weeks.

Antidepressant meds lower stress but still your levels are now very low this

needs to be looked at If I were you I would stop all them supplements and meds

if you could and redo them labs.

It is looking to me like your Secondary meaning your Pituitary is not telling

your Testis to make Testosterone.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Tom Czapski <czapskich@...>

> Subject: Re: Need advice - pssd, hypogonadism, gynecomastia

>

> Date: Tuesday, August 17, 2010, 2:41 AM

> Some time ago I put such results

> here:

>

> " First, one week ago, day after dropping 5-HTP and

> Tyrosine

>

> Estradiol 20 pg/ml normal value: max 56,00

> Prolactine 9,2 ng/ml normal value: 2,5-17,00

> Testosteron 648 ng/dl normal value: 262,00-1593,00

> Testosteron free (this result got today, as they made the

> send it to lab in

> other city /the same company/ ) 17,32 pg/ml normal value

> 4,0-42

>

> Two days ago, five days after dropping got such results

>

> LH 2,4 mlU/ml reference value 2,0-12,0

> FSH 4,27 mlU/ml reference value 1,0-8,0

> Testosterone 2,73 ng/ml reference value 1,95-11,38

> Progesterone 0,59 ng/ml reference value <3,37

>

> (reference value is where 95% in this lab are between, so

> 2,5% are lower than

> minimal) "

>

> I got some two extra labs:

>

> First ordered by my endo (After two weeks free of any

> medicaments), with my gyno stabilised on average level, and

> completely low on energy, sexual dysfunctions)

>

> First result mine, second reference value

>

> Estradiol <20 pg/ml

> <56 pg/ml

> FT4 1,42 ng/dl

> 0,80-1,90

> Prolactine 7,1 ng/ml

> 2,5-17,0

> TSH 0,747 ulu/ml

> 0,400-4,000

> Prolactin - 60 min after taking Metaclopramid 80,9

> ng/ml

>

> Everything in norm, Prolactin aftet Metaclopromid should

> raise not more than 600%, (in my case 1100 %), but as the

> starting level of Proclactine was low Endo didnt think it

> was the reason for my gyno.

>

> Then becasue of fatigue I started to take Coaxil, which is

> SSRE, affects serotonine, but completely differently than

> SSRI or 5-HTP, and to help block gyno I started to take B6.

> After one day I started to feel more energy, better with

> sexual function, but after a few days pain in breast got

> stronger, and after a week I notice another enlargment of

> the breast tissue, so I quit both. Got labs the day I quit (

> in the same lab I got second results with test and lh very

> low) and:

>

> LH 1,3 mlU/ml 2,0-12,0

> Testosteron 4,98 ng/ml

> 1,95-11,38

> BHCG <2,00 mlU/ml <5,0

>

> So the conclusion on these small basis are:

>

> Antidepressant medicaments affecting serotonine (of

> different kinds) help me - in energy department, in

> general sexual condition, but also result in gyno. My

> hormonal labs show, that it can be done by antidepressant

> affecting testosterone levels - the act like testosterone

> boosters. Without them I am hypogonadal, after taking them

> close to average. And gyno in this case isnt a mystery -

> such swings of testosterone levels affects estrogen and can

> result in gyno.

>

> I am taken to the clinic in September for a few days, hope

> to get some explanations, but for now I have a few questions

> to the most experienced users:

>

> Anyone heard of serotonine medicaments acting as a

> testosterone booster?

>

> My jump in testosterone to " close to normal " levels

> coincided with drop of LH to abnormally low levels. From

> what I read, these both levels are mostly sychronised, not

> in such way, really cant understand that?

>

> As i said in first post - I took Zoloft for 6,5 years, I

> suffered from Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and multiple

> allergies with also neural symptoms, Zoloft with Claritine

> seemed to help me a lot, but Zoloft destroy my sexual

> functions, especially after quitting. I have some natural

> symptoms of low testosterone - I ve never shaved more than

> once in 3-4 days (i'm 29y old), almost no hair on arms, very

> lean bones, although i m tall 6'3 almost - I have hands not

> bigger than my actual ex-girlfriends.

>

> ------------------------------------

>

August 17, 2010

No, I am not on SSRI's anymore. I stopped cold turkey last year at this time.

Yeah, it was shear hell there for about 6 weeks. And I remember the doctor

telling me when I started taking Zoloft that it was non-addictive!!!! Actually,

I wasn't really depressed, just a little stressed out. The doctor suggested to

try them. Can low T3 cause the low libido issue??

> > > > >

> > > > > > From: Tom Czapski <czapskich@>

> > > > > > Subject: Need advice - pssd, hypogonadism,

gynecomastia

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Date: Friday, July 30, 2010, 2:29 PM

> > > > > > Hi everyone,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 29 y old, PSSD sufferer after 7 years on Zoloft as a help

> > > > > > to chronical fatigue syndrome. During Zoloft I got lower

> > > > > > libido, low sensation/pleasure from sexual act, but not

> > > > > > serious sexual problems. After quitting Zoloft, sensation

> > > > > > came back, libido a little better, but I became almost

> > > > > > complete impotent. At the moment 6 months SSRI free. Able to

> > > > > > have sex only with Viagra and even that didnt guarantee long

> > > > > > effect. 2 months ago started to take Tyrosine and 5-HTP

> > > > > > (this boosts Serotonine as Zoloft does, but in different

> > > > > > mechanisms). After a week started to take 5-HTP before

> > > > > > bedtime on empty stomach and next morning I got my first

> > > > > > morning wood (not after viagra nights) strong as in high

> > > > > > schol. Next weeks I saw much improvement in erections, in

> > > > > > mornings at leat half-erections, sometimes able to have

> > > > > > sex without viagra, and even with viagra results were

> > > > > > much better than before. No side effects of lower pleasuer.

> > > > > > After a month first signs of Gynecomastia appeared, I

> > > > > > misjudged them as aquiring fat. After second month I noticed

> > > > > > what Gyno is, dropped all drugs - it was a week ago. No

> > > > > > improvement since than. My gino is at least average, ashamed

> > > > > > to wear shirts, left breast is bigger than right and hurts.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What's interesting..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I made two hormonal tests in two different labs, both in

> > > > > > the mornings on empty stomach.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > First, one week ago, day after dropping 5-HTP and Tyrosine

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Estradiol 20 pg/ml normal value: max 56,00

> > > > > > Prolactine 9,2 ng/ml normal value: 2,5-17,00

> > > > > > Testosteron 648 ng/dl normal value:

> > > > > > 262,00-1593,00

> > > > > > Testosteron free (this result got today, as they made the

> > > > > > send it to lab in other city /the same company/ )

> > > > > > 17,32 pg/ml normal value 4,0-42

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Two days ago, five days after dropping got such results

> > > > > >

> > > > > > LH 2,4 mlU/ml reference value 2,0-12,0

> > > > > > FSH 4,27 mlU/ml reference value 1,0-8,0

> > > > > > Testosterone 2,73 ng/ml reference value

> > > > > > 1,95-11,38

> > > > > > Progesterone 0,59 ng/ml reference value

> > > > > > <3,37

> > > > > >

> > > > > > (reference value is where 95% in this lab are between, so

> > > > > > 2,5% are lower than minimal)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On monday I will get another tests, this time full 6-7

> > > > > > hormons at once and in the monday evening i'm going to

> > > > > > endocrynologist.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > is this possible to get 2 such different results in 5 days

> > > > > > span (more that 2 times lower test) - first results are

> > > > > > almost perfect, second shows hypogonadism?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My hypothesis after analysing this result, is that after

> > > > > > long period of Zoloft in some hard to explain way, I need

> > > > > > extra serotonine for pituary gland to have any production of

> > > > > > hormons. 5-htp mimicked this effect and boosted indirectly

> > > > > > testosteron, which normally is not the case. Without extra

> > > > > > serotoine, I have levels and symptoms of hypogonadism.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > from my experience I do not expect a lot from my endo on

> > > > > > monday, as docs do not do well with such specifis cases.

> > > > > > What should i try to convince him to do, as I suppose he

> > > > > > will advise waiting for gyno to disappear naturally.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Try Tamoxifen or Clomid? May it make gyno smaller or gives

> > > > > > guarantee of no further damage? Month after first sings, 10

> > > > > > days ago it got to current level.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Boost testosterone - androgel, injections or hCG ? Surely

> > > > > > will help with erection but gyno will be worse?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Wait taking nothing for months and than have surgery for

> > > > > > months, and live with Viagra for years hoping it will

> > > > > > work not messing with my awful hormon levels?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I know you cant guarantee my anyting, or take

> > > > > > responsibility for my further steps, but I would be very

> > > > > > grateful for advice. I see a lot of You with knowledge and

> > > > > > experience, and I m pretty sure, know more about complicated

> > > > > > case that most of endocrynologist in my country.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thank You in Advance

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > >

August 17, 2010

For some, yes. Have you had a full hormone workup? Everything is

inter-related.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > From: Tom Czapski <czapskich@>

> > > > > > > Subject: Need advice - pssd, hypogonadism,

gynecomastia

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Date: Friday, July 30, 2010, 2:29 PM

> > > > > > > Hi everyone,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 29 y old, PSSD sufferer after 7 years on Zoloft as a help

> > > > > > > to chronical fatigue syndrome. During Zoloft I got lower

> > > > > > > libido, low sensation/pleasure from sexual act, but not

> > > > > > > serious sexual problems. After quitting Zoloft, sensation

> > > > > > > came back, libido a little better, but I became almost

> > > > > > > complete impotent. At the moment 6 months SSRI free. Able to

> > > > > > > have sex only with Viagra and even that didnt guarantee long

> > > > > > > effect. 2 months ago started to take Tyrosine and 5-HTP

> > > > > > > (this boosts Serotonine as Zoloft does, but in different

> > > > > > > mechanisms). After a week started to take 5-HTP before

> > > > > > > bedtime on empty stomach and next morning I got my first

> > > > > > > morning wood (not after viagra nights) strong as in high

> > > > > > > schol. Next weeks I saw much improvement in erections, in

> > > > > > > mornings at leat half-erections, sometimes able to have

> > > > > > > sex without viagra, and even with viagra results were

> > > > > > > much better than before. No side effects of lower pleasuer.

> > > > > > > After a month first signs of Gynecomastia appeared, I

> > > > > > > misjudged them as aquiring fat. After second month I noticed

> > > > > > > what Gyno is, dropped all drugs - it was a week ago. No

> > > > > > > improvement since than. My gino is at least average, ashamed

> > > > > > > to wear shirts, left breast is bigger than right and hurts.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > What's interesting..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I made two hormonal tests in two different labs, both in

> > > > > > > the mornings on empty stomach.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > First, one week ago, day after dropping 5-HTP and Tyrosine

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Estradiol 20 pg/ml normal value: max 56,00

> > > > > > > Prolactine 9,2 ng/ml normal value: 2,5-17,00

> > > > > > > Testosteron 648 ng/dl normal value:

> > > > > > > 262,00-1593,00

> > > > > > > Testosteron free (this result got today, as they made the

> > > > > > > send it to lab in other city /the same company/ )

> > > > > > > 17,32 pg/ml normal value 4,0-42

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Two days ago, five days after dropping got such results

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > LH 2,4 mlU/ml reference value 2,0-12,0

> > > > > > > FSH 4,27 mlU/ml reference value 1,0-8,0

> > > > > > > Testosterone 2,73 ng/ml reference value

> > > > > > > 1,95-11,38

> > > > > > > Progesterone 0,59 ng/ml reference value

> > > > > > > <3,37

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > (reference value is where 95% in this lab are between, so

> > > > > > > 2,5% are lower than minimal)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > On monday I will get another tests, this time full 6-7

> > > > > > > hormons at once and in the monday evening i'm going to

> > > > > > > endocrynologist.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > is this possible to get 2 such different results in 5 days

> > > > > > > span (more that 2 times lower test) - first results are

> > > > > > > almost perfect, second shows hypogonadism?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > My hypothesis after analysing this result, is that after

> > > > > > > long period of Zoloft in some hard to explain way, I need

> > > > > > > extra serotonine for pituary gland to have any production of

> > > > > > > hormons. 5-htp mimicked this effect and boosted indirectly

> > > > > > > testosteron, which normally is not the case. Without extra

> > > > > > > serotoine, I have levels and symptoms of hypogonadism.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > from my experience I do not expect a lot from my endo on

> > > > > > > monday, as docs do not do well with such specifis cases.

> > > > > > > What should i try to convince him to do, as I suppose he

> > > > > > > will advise waiting for gyno to disappear naturally.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Try Tamoxifen or Clomid? May it make gyno smaller or gives

> > > > > > > guarantee of no further damage? Month after first sings, 10

> > > > > > > days ago it got to current level.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Boost testosterone - androgel, injections or hCG ? Surely

> > > > > > > will help with erection but gyno will be worse?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Wait taking nothing for months and than have surgery for

> > > > > > > months, and live with Viagra for years hoping it will

> > > > > > > work not messing with my awful hormon levels?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I know you cant guarantee my anyting, or take

> > > > > > > responsibility for my further steps, but I would be very

> > > > > > > grateful for advice. I see a lot of You with knowledge and

> > > > > > > experience, and I m pretty sure, know more about complicated

> > > > > > > case that most of endocrynologist in my country.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thank You in Advance

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > >

August 17, 2010

No, I have not. I only had my total T checked by my GP. I have an appointment

with an endo next month, and will ask for a full hormone workup.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > From: Tom Czapski <czapskich@>

> > > > > > > > Subject: Need advice - pssd, hypogonadism,

gynecomastia

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Date: Friday, July 30, 2010, 2:29 PM

> > > > > > > > Hi everyone,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 29 y old, PSSD sufferer after 7 years on Zoloft as a help

> > > > > > > > to chronical fatigue syndrome. During Zoloft I got lower

> > > > > > > > libido, low sensation/pleasure from sexual act, but not

> > > > > > > > serious sexual problems. After quitting Zoloft, sensation

> > > > > > > > came back, libido a little better, but I became almost

> > > > > > > > complete impotent. At the moment 6 months SSRI free. Able to

> > > > > > > > have sex only with Viagra and even that didnt guarantee long

> > > > > > > > effect. 2 months ago started to take Tyrosine and 5-HTP

> > > > > > > > (this boosts Serotonine as Zoloft does, but in different

> > > > > > > > mechanisms). After a week started to take 5-HTP before

> > > > > > > > bedtime on empty stomach and next morning I got my first

> > > > > > > > morning wood (not after viagra nights) strong as in high

> > > > > > > > schol. Next weeks I saw much improvement in erections, in

> > > > > > > > mornings at leat half-erections, sometimes able to have

> > > > > > > > sex without viagra, and even with viagra results were

> > > > > > > > much better than before. No side effects of lower pleasuer.

> > > > > > > > After a month first signs of Gynecomastia appeared, I

> > > > > > > > misjudged them as aquiring fat. After second month I noticed

> > > > > > > > what Gyno is, dropped all drugs - it was a week ago. No

> > > > > > > > improvement since than. My gino is at least average, ashamed

> > > > > > > > to wear shirts, left breast is bigger than right and hurts.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > What's interesting..

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I made two hormonal tests in two different labs, both in

> > > > > > > > the mornings on empty stomach.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > First, one week ago, day after dropping 5-HTP and Tyrosine

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Estradiol 20 pg/ml normal value: max 56,00

> > > > > > > > Prolactine 9,2 ng/ml normal value: 2,5-17,00

> > > > > > > > Testosteron 648 ng/dl normal value:

> > > > > > > > 262,00-1593,00

> > > > > > > > Testosteron free (this result got today, as they made the

> > > > > > > > send it to lab in other city /the same company/ )

> > > > > > > > 17,32 pg/ml normal value 4,0-42

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Two days ago, five days after dropping got such results

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > LH 2,4 mlU/ml reference value 2,0-12,0

> > > > > > > > FSH 4,27 mlU/ml reference value 1,0-8,0

> > > > > > > > Testosterone 2,73 ng/ml reference value

> > > > > > > > 1,95-11,38

> > > > > > > > Progesterone 0,59 ng/ml reference value

> > > > > > > > <3,37

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > (reference value is where 95% in this lab are between, so

> > > > > > > > 2,5% are lower than minimal)

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > On monday I will get another tests, this time full 6-7

> > > > > > > > hormons at once and in the monday evening i'm going to

> > > > > > > > endocrynologist.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > is this possible to get 2 such different results in 5 days

> > > > > > > > span (more that 2 times lower test) - first results are

> > > > > > > > almost perfect, second shows hypogonadism?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > My hypothesis after analysing this result, is that after

> > > > > > > > long period of Zoloft in some hard to explain way, I need

> > > > > > > > extra serotonine for pituary gland to have any production of

> > > > > > > > hormons. 5-htp mimicked this effect and boosted indirectly

> > > > > > > > testosteron, which normally is not the case. Without extra

> > > > > > > > serotoine, I have levels and symptoms of hypogonadism.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > from my experience I do not expect a lot from my endo on

> > > > > > > > monday, as docs do not do well with such specifis cases.

> > > > > > > > What should i try to convince him to do, as I suppose he

> > > > > > > > will advise waiting for gyno to disappear naturally.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Try Tamoxifen or Clomid? May it make gyno smaller or gives

> > > > > > > > guarantee of no further damage? Month after first sings, 10

> > > > > > > > days ago it got to current level.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Boost testosterone - androgel, injections or hCG ? Surely

> > > > > > > > will help with erection but gyno will be worse?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Wait taking nothing for months and than have surgery for

> > > > > > > > months, and live with Viagra for years hoping it will

> > > > > > > > work not messing with my awful hormon levels?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I know you cant guarantee my anyting, or take

> > > > > > > > responsibility for my further steps, but I would be very

> > > > > > > > grateful for advice. I see a lot of You with knowledge and

> > > > > > > > experience, and I m pretty sure, know more about complicated

> > > > > > > > case that most of endocrynologist in my country.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thank You in Advance

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > > >

August 18, 2010

You might want to check out a disease called celiac. It causes fatigue, dental

problems, and thin bones.

http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddiseases/pubs/celiac/

Celiac disease results in malabsorption of nutrients.

http://www.celiac.com/articles/1106/1/Celiac-Disease-Symptoms/Page1.html

I hope that you do not have this problem, but, if by chance, it is possible to

reverse this condition by following a diet free of wheat and rye. You will

feel better after 3 weeks and your body will be in a natural healthy state after

3~4 months. I am not saying that it will help your Test. values but, it most

certainly help the fatigue and thin bones.

From: philip georgian <pmgamer18@...>

Subject: Re: Need advice - pssd, hypogonadism, gynecomastia

Date: Tuesday, August 17, 2010, 10:28 AM

>

> Then becasue of fatigue I started to take Coaxil, which is

> SSRE, affects serotonine, but completely differently than

> SSRI or 5-HTP, and to help block gyno I started to take B6.

> After one day I started to feel more energy, better with

> sexual function, but after a few days pain in breast got

> stronger, and after a week I notice another enlargment of

> the breast tissue, so I quit both. Got labs the day I quit (

> in the same lab I got second results with test and lh very

> low) and:

>

> LH 1,3 mlU/ml 2,0-12,0

> Testosteron 4,98 ng/ml

> 1,95-11,38

> BHCG <2,00 mlU/ml <5,0

>

> So the conclusion on these small basis are:

>

> Antidepressant medicaments affecting serotonine (of

> different kinds) help me - in energy department, in

> general sexual condition, but also result in gyno. My

> hormonal labs show, that it can be done by antidepressant

> affecting testosterone levels - the act like testosterone

> boosters. Without them I am hypogonadal, after taking them

> close to average. And gyno in this case isnt a mystery -

> such swings of testosterone levels affects estrogen and can

> result in gyno.

>

> I am taken to the clinic in September for a few days, hope

> to get some explanations, but for now I have a few questions

> to the most experienced users:

>

> Anyone heard of serotonine medicaments acting as a

> testosterone booster?

>

> My jump in testosterone to " close to normal " levels

> coincided with drop of LH to abnormally low levels. From

> what I read, these both levels are mostly sychronised, not

> in such way, really cant understand that?

>

> As i said in first post - I took Zoloft for 6,5 years, I

> suffered from Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and multiple

> allergies with also neural symptoms, Zoloft with Claritine

> seemed to help me a lot, but Zoloft destroy my sexual

> functions, especially after quitting. I have some natural

> symptoms of low testosterone - I ve never shaved more than

> once in 3-4 days (i'm 29y old), almost no hair on arms, very

> lean bones, although i m tall 6'3 almost - I have hands not

> bigger than my actual ex-girlfriends.

>

August 18, 2010

Thanks soybeans4019 everyone should be checked for this I was and I am lucky I

don't have it. But I know people with it and they all have Thyroid Problems

they never felt better until they stopped eating wheat and rye.

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> From: philip georgian <pmgamer18@...>

> Subject: Re: Need advice - pssd,

> hypogonadism, gynecomastia

>

> Date: Tuesday, August 17, 2010, 10:28 AM

>

> >

> > Then becasue of fatigue I started to take Coaxil,

> which is

> > SSRE, affects serotonine, but completely differently

> than

> > SSRI or 5-HTP, and to help block gyno I started to

> take B6.

> > After one day I started to feel more energy, better

> with

> > sexual function, but after a few days pain in breast

> got

> > stronger, and after a week I notice another enlargment

> of

> > the breast tissue, so I quit both. Got labs the day I

> quit (

> > in the same lab I got second results with test and lh

> very

> > low) and:

> >

> > LH 1,3 mlU/ml 2,0-12,0

> > Testosteron 4,98 ng/ml

> > 1,95-11,38

> > BHCG <2,00 mlU/ml <5,0

> >

> > So the conclusion on these small basis are:

> >

> > Antidepressant medicaments affecting serotonine (of

> > different kinds) help me - in energy department, in

> > general sexual condition, but also result in gyno.

> My

> > hormonal labs show, that it can be done by

> antidepressant

> > affecting testosterone levels - the act like

> testosterone

> > boosters. Without them I am hypogonadal, after taking

> them

> > close to average. And gyno in this case isnt a mystery

> -

> > such swings of testosterone levels affects estrogen

> and can

> > result in gyno.

> >

> > I am taken to the clinic in September for a few days,

> hope

> > to get some explanations, but for now I have a few

> questions

> > to the most experienced users:

> >

> > Anyone heard of serotonine medicaments acting as a

> > testosterone booster?

> >

> > My jump in testosterone to " close to normal " levels

> > coincided with drop of LH to abnormally low levels.

> From

> > what I read, these both levels are mostly sychronised,

> not

> > in such way, really cant understand that?

> >

> > As i said in first post - I took Zoloft for 6,5 years,

> I

> > suffered from Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and multiple

> > allergies with also neural symptoms, Zoloft with

> Claritine

> > seemed to help me a lot, but Zoloft destroy my sexual

> > functions, especially after quitting. I have some

> natural

> > symptoms of low testosterone - I ve never shaved more

> than

> > once in 3-4 days (i'm 29y old), almost no hair on

> arms, very

> > lean bones, although i m tall 6'3 almost - I have

> hands not

> > bigger than my actual ex-girlfriends.

> >

>

Sign In

Re: Need advice - pssd, hypogonadism, gynecomastia

Recommended Posts

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Join the conversation

Activity