35..TRT..1 1/2 weeks in

[Guest guest]

I started TRT almost 2 weeks ago. My doc gave me options of what I wanted to do.

He pretty much gave me the pros and cons of different treatments and let me

choose. I ended up on all subq injections, even though I did my first T shot IM,

on his advice. He has me on Tcyp 100mg 2 times a week, and HCG 250 3 times a

week. He wasn't too concerned about the injection schedule but after reading on

here I think I will settle in on this schedule:

Mon-HCG

Tues-T

Wed-HCG

Thur-HCG

Fri-T

Sat & Sun nothing!

I think I'm feeling better, although it's not a huge difference yet. I am for

sure gaining some weight, I think muscle, and feeling good in training (I train

Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and Mixed Martial Arts). I'm not back to my full training

schedule yet, but am very curious to see what happens when I am, as I have

trained myself into great shape in the past, even with the T issue. I had some

ED issues before and although I haven't got to full on test things out, I think

that it's going to be a lot better!

Anyways, any advice/opinions on my situation/injection sched/etc?

Thanks, Randall

[Guest guest]

Randall what I am about to tell you you will not want to hear but listen and

think about what I have to say.

There are many times men with low T come here and find out after things get so

bad they can't get out of bed anymore. Low T can happen for overtraning and

they run down there body to the point there brain stops telling the body to make

hormones Testosterone, Cortisol from the Adrenals, Thyroid and Growth Hormone.

So all I am saying here is go slow test everything and if you exercise and don't

recover fast slow down some men that are so bad can't exercise and with

treatment feel better and jump right back into it and end up with a set back.

So go slow get leveled off once you do this now you need to give your body time

to undo any damage done from having low T Joints and Muscles neet T to be

healthy having low T over time they take a hit and need to heal. Here is a cut

and past about this.

====================================================

Low Hormones due to over training.

According to research presented at the Endocrine Society's annual meeting,

" males presenting with high athletic stress or weight loss, coupled with low

testosterone, may signal the rise of a new disorder -- functional

hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism. "

In a study of seven patients and 35 healthy matched controls, researchers found

that the " patients had a lower average weight compared to controls (64.1 kg

versus 79.9 kg, P<0.01). They also had a lower body mass index (20.7 versus

24.9, P<0.01) and a lower percentage of body fat (9.8% versus 17.6%, P<0.01), "

in addition to " lower serum testosterone...(168 ng/dL versus 534 ng/dL,

P<0.001), lower serum estradiol (12.4 pg/ml versus 37.5 pg/ml, P<0.001), and

lower serum leutinizing hormone (LH) (7.2 IU/L versus 9.9 IU/L, P<0.05). "

ENDO: Pursuit of Six Pack Abs May Trigger New Malady

Medical News: ENDO: Pursuit of Six Pack Abs May Trigger New Malady - in Meeting

Coverage, ENDO from MedPage Today

SAN DIEGO -- Males presenting with high athletic stress or weight loss, coupled

with low testosterone, may signal the rise of a new disorder -- functional

hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism.

Just as women whose bodies are under stress from excessive exercise, weight

loss, or psychological stress can experience hypothalamic amenorrhea, a

seven-patient series suggests that a similar phenomenon may exist among men

undergoing similar kinds of stress, Dwyer, MD, of Massachusetts General

Hospital, said during a poster session here at the annual meeting of the

Endocrine Society.

" We saw some male patients who all have a similar type of presentation in terms

of one or more of this [stress] triad, and presented with low testosterone, "

Dwyer explained. The patients all had normal puberty and a normal testicular

size, but all presented with " vague, non-specific symptoms " of low testosterone,

including absent morning erections, low energy level, fatigue, decreased

athletic performance, and decreased libido, he said.

" Interestingly, two of these patients had female family members with amenorrhea,

which made us think maybe there's a connection, " Dwyer continued.

To further study this phenomenon, the patients were recalled to the hospital,

where they underwent detailed genotyping and phenotyping, including measurements

of reproductive and metabolic hormones, an overnight frequent sampling study of

leutinizing hormone, and DEXA scan for body composition. The investigators also

recruited 35 age-matched healthy adults as controls.

The seven patients had a lower average weight compared to controls (64.1 kg

versus 79.9 kg, P<0.01). They also had a lower body mass index (20.7 versus

24.9, P<0.01) and a lower percentage of body fat (9.8% versus 17.6%, P<0.01).

In terms of their biochemical characteristics, the patients had lower serum

testosterone compared with controls (168 ng/dL versus 534 ng/dL, P<0.001), lower

serum estradiol (12.4 pg/ml versus 37.5 pg/ml, P<0.001), and lower serum

leutinizing hormone (LH) (7.2 IU/L versus 9.9 IU/L, P<0.05).

The patients also had lower pulse frequency, lower mean LH amplitude, and lower

serum FSH, but none of those numbers approached statistical significance,

according to the investigators.

Despite their low testosterone levels, six of the seven patients had LH pulse

patterns, frequency, and amplitude that were no different from controls, Dwyer

said. However, the seventh patient had four hours of no pulses, then a burst of

three pulses, then no pulses for the remaining four hours, a pattern that

normally occurs when boys first enter puberty.

" It's as if this patient is recapitulating an early- to mid-pubertal LH pulse

secretion pattern, " he said. " He's 17, he went through normal puberty, he's done

and he's virilized, but with the stress of exercise and the weight loss, perhaps

the stress tipped him back into the nocturnal pulse pattern. "

Dwyer noted that after the patients had been tested, one of them sustained a

heel injury and had to stop training for a while. " He gained six pounds, and we

measured his testosterone level, and serially, it stayed normal, " he noted. " So

with just enough removal of stress...he was able to swing back into normal

testosterone production. "

Another patient who decreased his training upon the researchers' recommendation

was also retested and his testosterone level was up into the low end of the

normal range, said Dwyer.

The researchers are calling the possible new disorder functional

hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism. " In Boston, there are lots of marathon runners

and collegiate rowers who exercise a lot and don't exhibit these symptoms, " he

said. " So what is it about these seven men that make them different from vast

majority of superexerciser lean guys? "

The investigators hypothesize that these men may harbor mutations in genes that

are involved in GnRH androgyny or reproductive access such that with the right

stressor, that can tip them into hypogonadism, but if you remove the stressor

they tip back, " said Dwyer.

Rick Dorin, MD, chief of endocrinology at the University of New Mexico, in

Albuquerque, said the study was very interesting.

" I see a painfully large amount of hypogonadism in in my clinical practice at

the Veterans Affairs Hospital, " said Dorin, who was not involved in the study.

" We see a lot of hypogonadism due to other factors, but not in such young men.

This is raising the possibility that the [hypothalamic amenorrhea] in women

athletes -- that a comparable thing goes on in young men. They've got

provocative findings in a small number of patients. "

Primary source: The Endocrine Society

Source reference: NR Chavan, AA Dwyer, PW , MT , GP Sykiotis, KW

Keefe, SB Seminara, L Plummer, WF Crowley, N Pitteloud. " Male functional

hypogonadotropic hypogonadism (MFHH): A distinct clinical entity? " ENDO 2010;

Abstract Book, P2-462.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: forced2fish <ruca4life@...>

> Subject: 35..TRT..1 1/2 weeks in

>

> Date: Sunday, June 27, 2010, 9:30 PM

> I started TRT almost 2 weeks ago. My

> doc gave me options of what I wanted to do. He pretty much

> gave me the pros and cons of different treatments and let me

> choose. I ended up on all subq injections, even though I did

> my first T shot IM, on his advice. He has me on Tcyp 100mg 2

> times a week, and HCG 250 3 times a week. He wasn't too

> concerned about the injection schedule but after reading on

> here I think I will settle in on this schedule:

>

> Mon-HCG

> Tues-T

> Wed-HCG

> Thur-HCG

> Fri-T

> Sat & Sun nothing!

>

> I think I'm feeling better, although it's not a huge

> difference yet. I am for sure gaining some weight, I think

> muscle, and feeling good in training (I train Brazilian Jiu

> Jitsu and Mixed Martial Arts). I'm not back to my full

> training schedule yet, but am very curious to see what

> happens when I am, as I have trained myself into great shape

> in the past, even with the T issue. I had some ED issues

> before and although I haven't got to full on test things

> out, I think that it's going to be a lot better!

>

> Anyways, any advice/opinions on my situation/injection

> sched/etc?

>

> Thanks, Randall

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Phil..Thanks and that is a very interesting read. I think that could have

been a possibility a few years ago (maybe it led to all of this in the first

place?) but for sure not now. The reason I say that is this.....I have had 5-6

months of school and tests, so I was pretty much out of training that whole

time. I actually gained about 10 pounds (185ish to 195ish). When I actually had

the blood work done, I was barely training, and not very hard at all. I know

there have been times where I " over did it " but it has been many months since

that has happened. I would think that if anything it would be more stress

related as that school/test time was one of the more stressful periods of my

life. Whatever the case, it has been going on for a few years at least and if I

think wwwwaaayyyy back I think I have been on the lower end of the t scale for

longer than that.

I go back to the doc in 2 weeks and will get all new blood work to see where I'm

at. Hopefully things will be good. I actually have a question regarding

that....after say 4-6 weeks on trt is it possible to do a round of pct, like if

you were coming off a round of roids, and jump start your natural t again?

Thanks!

>

> > From: forced2fish <ruca4life@...>

> > Subject: 35..TRT..1 1/2 weeks in

> >

> > Date: Sunday, June 27, 2010, 9:30 PM

> > I started TRT almost 2 weeks ago. My

> > doc gave me options of what I wanted to do. He pretty much

> > gave me the pros and cons of different treatments and let me

> > choose. I ended up on all subq injections, even though I did

> > my first T shot IM, on his advice. He has me on Tcyp 100mg 2

> > times a week, and HCG 250 3 times a week. He wasn't too

> > concerned about the injection schedule but after reading on

> > here I think I will settle in on this schedule:

> >

> > Mon-HCG

> > Tues-T

> > Wed-HCG

> > Thur-HCG

> > Fri-T

> > Sat & Sun nothing!

> >

> > I think I'm feeling better, although it's not a huge

> > difference yet. I am for sure gaining some weight, I think

> > muscle, and feeling good in training (I train Brazilian Jiu

> > Jitsu and Mixed Martial Arts). I'm not back to my full

> > training schedule yet, but am very curious to see what

> > happens when I am, as I have trained myself into great shape

> > in the past, even with the T issue. I had some ED issues

> > before and although I haven't got to full on test things

> > out, I think that it's going to be a lot better!

> >

> > Anyways, any advice/opinions on my situation/injection

> > sched/etc?

> >

> > Thanks, Randall

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Yes you can try this but there are only a few Dr.'s anygood at doing this the

best is Dr. . If you could go to his forum and read this thread. By

boatner " Desperatey need Help...Messed up my hormones...only 21 " he came to my

Thyroid forum he was excepted into Med. School and had to take a break he is dam

sick this July he is driving in to see Dr. read his thread and the posts he

got at Dr. 's forum.

http://www.musclechatroom.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14250

I said what I needed to say and I pray you keep this in the back of your mind.

I get at least one young men with this problem a month one to many.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: forced2fish <ruca4life@...>

> Subject: Re: 35..TRT..1 1/2 weeks in

>

> Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 10:50 AM

> Hi Phil..Thanks and that is a very

> interesting read. I think that could have been a possibility

> a few years ago (maybe it led to all of this in the first

> place?) but for sure not now. The reason I say that is

> this.....I have had 5-6 months of school and tests, so I was

> pretty much out of training that whole time. I actually

> gained about 10 pounds (185ish to 195ish). When I actually

> had the blood work done, I was barely training, and not very

> hard at all. I know there have been times where I " over did

> it " but it has been many months since that has happened. I

> would think that if anything it would be more stress related

> as that school/test time was one of the more stressful

> periods of my life. Whatever the case, it has been going on

> for a few years at least and if I think wwwwaaayyyy back I

> think I have been on the lower end of the t scale for longer

> than that.

>

> I go back to the doc in 2 weeks and will get all new blood

> work to see where I'm at. Hopefully things will be good. I

> actually have a question regarding that....after say 4-6

> weeks on trt is it possible to do a round of pct, like if

> you were coming off a round of roids, and jump start your

> natural t again? 

>

> Thanks!

>

>

> >

> > > From: forced2fish <ruca4life@...>

> > > Subject: 35..TRT..1 1/2 weeks in

> > >

> > > Date: Sunday, June 27, 2010, 9:30 PM

> > > I started TRT almost 2 weeks ago. My

> > > doc gave me options of what I wanted to do. He

> pretty much

> > > gave me the pros and cons of different treatments

> and let me

> > > choose. I ended up on all subq injections, even

> though I did

> > > my first T shot IM, on his advice. He has me on

> Tcyp 100mg 2

> > > times a week, and HCG 250 3 times a week. He

> wasn't too

> > > concerned about the injection schedule but after

> reading on

> > > here I think I will settle in on this schedule:

> > >

> > > Mon-HCG

> > > Tues-T

> > > Wed-HCG

> > > Thur-HCG

> > > Fri-T

> > > Sat & Sun nothing!

> > >

> > > I think I'm feeling better, although it's not a

> huge

> > > difference yet. I am for sure gaining some

> weight, I think

> > > muscle, and feeling good in training (I train

> Brazilian Jiu

> > > Jitsu and Mixed Martial Arts). I'm not back to my

> full

> > > training schedule yet, but am very curious to see

> what

> > > happens when I am, as I have trained myself into

> great shape

> > > in the past, even with the T issue. I had some ED

> issues

> > > before and although I haven't got to full on test

> things

> > > out, I think that it's going to be a lot better!

>

> > >

> > > Anyways, any advice/opinions on my

> situation/injection

> > > sched/etc?

> > >

> > > Thanks, Randall

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >