Re: Beta Blockers

[Guest guest]

Hi,

The beta blockers increased my heart beat and made me feel bad so after

a week I quit taking them without seeing any harm. I could not stand

them and they did not help me at all. You may be different thought.

Raven

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: hyperthyroidism

- Simplifying group communications

[Guest guest]

Go to Alternative Medicine Magazine's search engine at

http://www.alternativemedicine.com/digest and look up 'beta

blockers'. They have some very good information. Beta blockers can

cause some serious side effects and also don't address the real

reasons why you have the problem in the first place.

[Guest guest]

Mel Siff wrote: Now, Rosemary - what do you have to say about all of that?

How does your

private drug store compare with this?

*** You win! BTW, you *must* see that movie, Sitting Ducks. I know it's out

on video.

Rosemary Wedderburn-Vernon

Venice, CA

[Guest guest]

on 15/4/01 10:43 AM, flexfemme@... at flexfemme@... wrote:

> For what it's worth, since a few people are on the subject, beta

> blockers (tenormin) caused very servere Raynaud Syndrome in my hands

> and feet. Raynaud Syndrome is one of the well-known side-effects,

> and unfortunately, it is a condition which usually does not reverse

> itself after the beta blockers are discontinued.

Suzanne,

What is Raynaud Syndrome?

Dickman

Australia.

[Guest guest]

Mel Siff responded: I would strongly suggest that you seek a second and third

opinion from medical specialists who have had wide experience with the use of

those drugs, especially in the world of cardiology. I trust that your doctor

pointed out that calcium channel blockers can be

very dangerous and their value is highly equivocal. Moreover, the concurrent

use of

beta blockers and ACE inhibitors accentuates the side-effects of both drugs,

especially

the lowering of blood pressure, which it can do very precipitously. However,

given the sudden

change in your blood pressure status, I can understand your doctor's drastic

approach. Even

more important, for your long-term health, you have to ascertain WHY your

condition has

chosen to change as it has. Since you have been taking a variety of

prohormones, is your doctor

aware of this fact and, if so, what has he said about their possible effect on

blood pressure?

By the way, are you taking any magnesium (aspartate) supplements for cardiac

conditions?

*** Mel, thank you for your suggestions. I am definitely seeking further

medical opinion on the combination of blood pressure medications. This is a

slow process when the VA is involved and a single referral can take weeks to

several months. Usually the VA's way of dealing with poor medication choices is

to treat them with complete indifference until an emergency forces them to take

action. This is a sad commentary on an otherwise very dedicated medical care

system.

The best way of dealing with the VA is to be bluntly assertive and considering

cardiac risk, I will do so in demanding a second opinion from an experienced

UCLA/VA cardiologist. I am very aware of the interactions and risk associated

with the various drugs. Fortunately, in my case, the combination is working

very well. This is probably due to the fact that, at least so far, I appear to

have a remarkably healthy heart. The VA has done everything from an EKG to an

echocardiogram to things that I don't understand, such as lab tests, etc.

The cause of my problem is related to extreme combat stress over many months

without let-up and the physical, mental and endocrine damage resulting therefrom

in what is generally known as Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD). This

disorder, more often than not, exhibits itself as a mental disability (which it

is), but in the case of long duration, it can have far more physical than mental

consequences (my case). Typical indicators of this would be a normal pulse rate

of 90 to 115 bpm where the pre-stress rate was in the low 60 bpm range. Blood

pressure, while high, is more frustrating due to wide swing variations without

warning. Figuring out whether this is brought on by chronic pain or whether it

brings on the chronic pain can often be a chicken and egg waste of time. Pain

definitely makes PTSD worse.

At present, I'm looking for any workout suggestions, limitations or guidelines

for lifting while taking the beta blockers. I don't know a lot about these

drugs other than the usual gym talk that they are absolutely awful when a

weightlifting program is involved. Any thought or ideas in this regard would be

very much appreciated.

The use of prohormones is something that my doctor(s) are very aware of and

monitor closely. The general consensus is that prohormones as well as safe

levels of anabolic steroids can be more helpful than harmful, considering my

age, lack of endogenous testosterone accompanied by high estradiol, and

cortisol. The downside is water retention. This can be caused by any number of

AA steroids, including testosterone cypionate. One of the things I will be

approaching the VA about in the coming weeks is switching to T. enanthate, which

has a far better reputation when it comes to not holding water.

Also, the new prohormone, 1-AD (manufactured by Ergopharm) has no estrogenic,

water retention or other serious side effects, other than a very minor DHT

conversion associated with almost all AAS. Since discontinuing dieuretics (used

for 35 years) I can no longer use prohormones of the 4-adiol or 19-Nor-4-adiol

versions (either in spray or oral form). Both of these types do cause

considerable water retention in many individuals, including myself. This can

often be as much as 10+ pounds during a cycle, if dosages are near maximum.

An interesting article (with references) just out in Muscle Monthly is at the

following link:

<http://www.musclemonthly.com/articles/010515-ullis-hormone-replacement-therapy.\

htm>

It is entitled " Hormone Balancing for Men, Part 1 " and was written by Karlis

Ullis, M.D. Karlis is the doctor that oversees my hormone therapy. The article

talks about hormone replacement in men and the associated risks/benefits. The

article discusses this topic from a very slow and sensible approach, outlining

any number of ways of manipulating various male hormones to achieve optimal

health. One section discusses prohormones and why Karlis feels they are a very

good easily purchased, legal alternative to AAS, especially in older men.

An interesting aside to the subject of stress damage, to the endocrine system in

particular, is the reaction to various stimulants. For example, if I want a

sedative, I will drink a very strong cup of coffee and promptly fall asleep,

hopefully not holding the cup still half full on my lap or chest. Any of the

ephedra-based substances tend to have a calming effect on my system and can

actually reduce the amount of constant unilateral tremor and very minor seizures

on the left side of my body (also caused by the head injury). Sudafed is almost

like a sleeping pill for me, to the extreme amusement of one of the VA

Endocrinologists. Ironically, if I were to take a thermogenic (which I won't

while taking the beta blocker), I still get an increased metabolic rate and this

increase may, in fact, in my opinion, account for the calming effects.

Depressed metabolism is another physical effect of prolonged PTSD and to

illustrate the magnitude of this, my morning rising temperature is more often

than not, in the 95-96 degree F range. This, for me, is completely normal.

Given this, one would expect a low thyroid; this is not the case.

Re the magnesium supplements, I was taking one that included calcium. Because

supplemental calcium can be a cause of acute pancreatitis, I have stopped taking

the supplement. If I start taking Magnesium again, it will probabably be one of

the ZMA supplements or in some other form. Do you have any recommendations?

[i also avoid taking supplemental calcium because I think my largely vegetarian

diet contains more than enough available calcium. Moreover, reports linking

large calcium intake with heart disease make me even more circumspect about

ingesting more of this mineral. Avoid taking magnesium in the form of the oxide

or carbonate, since it is very poorly absorbed in these forms. I take magnesium

potassium aspartate (e.g. by NOW Products). Othere consider the magnesium

citrate and malate also to be a good sources. Mel Siff ]

Again, I want to emphasize that my real concern is the effects and guidelines

for working out while taking a beta blocker - if any list members can be of help

in this regard.

Jim Vernon

Venice, CA

[Guest guest]

Dear Donna,

Beta blockers slow the heart rate. I took one, Atenol, when I was first

diagnosed with Graves, and my resting heart rate was about 120. Soon after

taking it, my heart rate returned to normal. When I recovered from Graves, I

stopped taking the drug. I think these drugs are also given to people with

high blood pressure.

AntJoan

[Guest guest]

Beta blockers slow down heart rate, not sure how exactly tho. I used to have

them when i got heart palpatations.

_________________________________________________________________

MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:

http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

[Guest guest]

Thanks, !

Donna

Re: Beta Blockers

Beta blockers slow down heart rate, not sure how exactly tho. I used to have them when i got heart palpatations._________________________________________________________________MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

[Guest guest]

Thanks, AntJoan! A friend was asking about the block and replace thing and I couldn't remember what the 'block' part of that was for.

Thanks so much.

Donna

Re: Beta Blockers

Dear Donna,Beta blockers slow the heart rate. I took one, Atenol, when I was first diagnosed with Graves, and my resting heart rate was about 120. Soon after taking it, my heart rate returned to normal. When I recovered from Graves, I stopped taking the drug. I think these drugs are also given to people with high blood pressure.AntJoan

[Guest guest]

Beta blockers are a class of drugs that block beta-adrenergic substances such as

adrenaline (epinephrine).

Donna,

Beta blockers are prescribed for heart arrhythmia to limit the heart rate.

They are also commonly used to control blood pressure.

A GOOD use is that they help some to overcome stage fright when addressing a

group.

IMHO, long term use has insidious detrimental results, but Hey, that's me.

I finally got off them.

Chuck

A boiled egg in the morning is hard to beat.

On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 13:12:24 -0700, CountryGirl <ruthful@...> wrote:

>Can someone explain to me Beta Blockers. What they do and why they are

>prescribed. I think I know but want to make sure I am not wrong.

[Guest guest]

If you have only one adrenal then sampling blood from one does not help. There

is nothing to compare it to and we dont have " normal values " from a lot of

people with only one adrenal.

BB can be stopped and I do this all the time in pts if they are having trouble.

YOu must monitor the pressure and the side effect that you think might be

related to the BB as you go along.

If you go Hyper when they draw your blood and breath heavily and deeply you will

acutely lower the K in the blood maybe by as much as 1 mM.

--

May your pressure be low!

CE Grim MD

Clinical Professor of Internal Medicine

Professor of Epidemiology

Board Certified in Internal Medicine, Geriatrics and Hypertension

[Guest guest]

Not a placebo controlled blinded study and based on the english in the abstract

not the best investigartors.

Would need to see the complete article to judge.

Japanese have a very high salt intake and their results may not be germane in

the US.

--

May your pressure be low!

CE Grim MD

Clinical Professor of Internal Medicine

Professor of Epidemiology

Board Certified in Internal Medicine, Geriatrics and Hypertension

[Guest guest]

PS most pts with dilated cardiomyopathy get that way from drinking too much.

So this is not the usual CHF pt.

--

May your pressure be low!

CE Grim MD

Clinical Professor of Internal Medicine

Professor of Epidemiology

Board Certified in Internal Medicine, Geriatrics and Hypertension

[Guest guest]

Hi, Dr. Grim

> PS most pts with dilated cardiomyopathy get that way

> from drinking too much.

By " this " , are you referring to me?

I had dilated cardiomyopathy and I don't drink at all.

I was told my dilated cardiomyopathy was due to high

blood pressure, pure and simple, and was the cause of

my heart failure.

I had I guess what you might call " functional " heart

failure; even with an EF of 20% I did not ever show an

elevated BNP and my symptoms were virtually

nonexistent.

Perhaps because of the study I cited or perhaps

similar studies, cardiologists are known for starting

heart failure patients on a " trial " of beta blockers,

particularly Carvedilol, which they most often are not

willing to reverse on the patient's request.

That's based on the experiences of patients as well as

interviews with cardiologists.

Warmly,

Pam

--- lowerbp2@... wrote:

>

>

> So this is not the usual CHF pt.

>

> --

>

>

> May your pressure be low!

>

> CE Grim MD

> Clinical Professor of Internal Medicine

> Professor of Epidemiology

>

> Board Certified in Internal Medicine, Geriatrics and

> Hypertension

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dilated Cardiomyopathy can be due to many things, including HTN, Primary

Aldosteronism (now called Pam's Syndrom by me) and drinking too much. I was

referring to the Japanese article.

--

May your pressure be low!

CE Grim MD

Clinical Professor of Internal Medicine

Professor of Epidemiology

Board Certified in Internal Medicine, Geriatrics and Hypertension

[Guest guest]

I tried a beta blocker once. My heart rate went down to about

45 beats per minute and needless to say, I almost panicked. So if

you try a BB, I would start w/ a low dose. Also, aren't BBs used

primarily for high blood pressure? If so, they would be the

opposite, it would seam, of a good CFS treatment.

Mike C

> Has anyone had experience with beta blockers and CFIDS? Some

articles say

> they are helpful in diastolic heart failure:

> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/03/050310104739.htm

>

> And one in particular, Topol XL, was recommended somewhere else

because it

> doesn't lower blood pressure as much.

>

> I know at least one patient who felt much better after starting beta

> blockers.

>

> Peggy

[Guest guest]

hi -

>I tried a beta blocker once. My heart rate went down to about

> 45 beats per minute and needless to say, I almost panicked. So if

> you try a BB, I would start w/ a low dose. Also, aren't BBs used

> primarily for high blood pressure? If so, they would be the

> opposite, it would seam, of a good CFS treatment.

they're also used to treat migraines; worked for me when nothing else would.

I usually have low blood pressure, but the BB don't seem to bother me - I

take a small dose (propanolol, 10 mg.) when I go to bed and have no adverse

side effects, no positive ones either except that my headaches go away which

improves my mood and energy level by itself!

Judith

[Guest guest]

I am on beta blocker - 1/2 dose. 25 mg metropolol [sp?]. Without it my

resting rate is in mid to high 70's which is high for me - my heart

rate was always in 60's if I wasn't doing much - was very active

before ME/CFS. My target exertional heart rate is only 90.

After my reaction to medicated stents 3 weeks ago - all my meds were

reviewed and beta blocker cut in half [ 1/4 was not enough ] calcium

channel blocker removed [ tiazac ] Am seeing interventionist

cardiologist [ plumber ] on Tuesday for 4 week check up.

Bye the way in the small town were I currently live [ moving in a few

weeks ] just opened up new hospital this weekend and has one of those

fast cat scanners that takes a picture in between heart beats and can

see plaque inside arteries - maybe they won't have to send people out

of town for invasive and risky angiograms [ heart catherization test ].

in ON

[Guest guest]

I take 360 mg of long acting Inderal for high blood pressure.

Initially, I noticed fatigue and a depressed feeling but now I just

notice the fatigue. I've been on Inderal for about ten years.

On 6/19/05, Peggomatic@... <Peggomatic@...> wrote:

> Has anyone had experience with beta blockers and CFIDS? Some articles say

> they are helpful in diastolic heart failure:

> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/03/050310104739.htm

>

> And one in particular, Topol XL, was recommended somewhere else because it

> doesn't lower blood pressure as much.

>

> I know at least one patient who felt much better after starting beta

> blockers.

>

> Peggy

>

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

[Guest guest]

I tried them a few year ago. After I flunked the tilt test the cardiologist

gave them to me because he wasn't sure what else to do with my abnormal tilt

test result (he didn't know anything about OI in CFS.) I took them for a couple

months and they had no effect. Soon after I started taking Catapres which is a

blood pressure regulator and that dramatically improved my OI, increased my bp,

and I felt much better and went back to work.

Doris

----- Original Message -----

Has anyone had experience with beta blockers and CFIDS?

[Guest guest]

I am doing well with betablocker Lokren (betaxololi hydrochloridum),

just a half dosage (10 mg) works well for me.

etta

> Has anyone had experience with beta blockers and CFIDS? Some

articles say

> they are helpful in diastolic heart failure:

> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/03/050310104739.htm

>

> And one in particular, Topol XL, was recommended somewhere else

because it

> doesn't lower blood pressure as much.

>

> I know at least one patient who felt much better after starting

beta

> blockers.

>

> Peggy

[Guest guest]

Beta blockers have a terrible history with POTS patients. Since a good subset

of CFS patients appear to have POTS, you should be really careful with them.

One person on this website noted a terrible relapse with them. This doesnt mean

they cant be helpful but you should be careful. Theres some information on them

in the first part of the below paper.

http://phoenix-cfs.org/Orthostatic%20Intolerance%20IV%20-%20Treatment,%20Biomark\

er.htm

You could also check out christoper calder's website.

yakcamp22 <yakcamp22@...> wrote:

I tried a beta blocker once. My heart rate went down to about

45 beats per minute and needless to say, I almost panicked. So if

you try a BB, I would start w/ a low dose. Also, aren't BBs used

primarily for high blood pressure? If so, they would be the

opposite, it would seam, of a good CFS treatment.

Mike C

> Has anyone had experience with beta blockers and CFIDS? Some

articles say

> they are helpful in diastolic heart failure:

> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/03/050310104739.htm

>

> And one in particular, Topol XL, was recommended somewhere else

because it

> doesn't lower blood pressure as much.

>

> I know at least one patient who felt much better after starting beta

> blockers.

>

> Peggy

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

---------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Hi There:

I am on Atenolol and have been for a couple of years - I was put on it by my

cardiologist but this was before I was diagnosed with Graves. I had had a few

bouts of angina and then had a heart cath that showed a blockage so that is why

I am on it and now for the tachycardia. I am feeling somewhat better now that I

have stopped the PTU so for now I think I will stay off it unless my numbers

reverse again lol. Who knows maybe I will be lucky and stay in remission - wow

wouldn't that be nice.

Just want to thank everyone who responded to my questions I really appreciate

your input a bunch.

[Guest guest]

Hi Rochelle

I don't remember any adverse reactions to the radioactive uptake test and also

the ultrasound.

Sorry I can't help you about the cost. I'm very fortunate to have insurance.

Kate

Beta Blockers

Hi,

I went to a new Doctor yesterday and he ordered the RAIU test and an

ultrasound for tomorrow. He also prescribed a beta blocker for my heart

palpitations. I'm pretty hypersensitive to most medicines, so I asked him for a

small dose. Is 50 mg a day going to cause me any side effects? I've just started

on it today.

The Doctor I saw was highly recommended to me. He is in Internal Medicine. He

was the complete opposite of the GP I've had for 27 years! He welcomed

questions, respected me, and didn't talk down to me which I greatly appreciated.

He also said he would refer me to an Endo if need be.

Anything I should know about the RAIU test? Does that small amount of iodine

make symptoms worse?

I'm slightly worried about the cost of all this as my husband is self-employed

and my employer doesn't offer health insurance. We have health insurance, but

the deductible is 5000.00 per person! I know it has to be done though.

Thanks for any info!

Rochelle

---------------------------------

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Kate. My Doctor put me on Beta Blockers but I sure don't like the way

they make me feel. I wonder if it's really necessary to be on them, as my heart

only seems to race when I'm working hard or I'm nervous.

Kate <Fraserk@...> wrote:

Hi Rochelle

I don't remember any adverse reactions to the radioactive uptake test and also

the ultrasound.

Sorry I can't help you about the cost. I'm very fortunate to have insurance.

Kate

Beta Blockers

Hi,

I went to a new Doctor yesterday and he ordered the RAIU test and an ultrasound

for tomorrow. He also prescribed a beta blocker for my heart palpitations. I'm

pretty hypersensitive to most medicines, so I asked him for a small dose. Is 50

mg a day going to cause me any side effects? I've just started on it today.

The Doctor I saw was highly recommended to me. He is in Internal Medicine. He

was the complete opposite of the GP I've had for 27 years! He welcomed

questions, respected me, and didn't talk down to me which I greatly appreciated.

He also said he would refer me to an Endo if need be.

Anything I should know about the RAIU test? Does that small amount of iodine

make symptoms worse?

I'm slightly worried about the cost of all this as my husband is self-employed

and my employer doesn't offer health insurance. We have health insurance, but

the deductible is 5000.00 per person! I know it has to be done though.

Thanks for any info!

Rochelle

---------------------------------

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.