Re: Problematic situation with testosterone now!

[Guest guest]

My Hemoglobin is always on the high side 18.3 top of the range is 17.1 g/dL.

My Hematocrit 54 top of the range is 50%.

I have low Aldosterone levels and take Florinef .1mgs with Sea Salt to keep my

sodium levels up. I am even on this always dehydrated. And I am on Iron pills

for low Ferritin levels. My Dr. tells me to stop the Iron pills a good 5 days

before doing labs the iron will make labs look off.

Because my body dumps my sodium the Sea Salt and Florinef helps and that is all

it dose is help not a fix still a problem.

If you stop your gel your T levels are going to fall and your going to feel bad

it's not going to kill you. I have been taken off T meds 7 times I did not like

the way it made me feel I could not get to work my real big problem was fatigue.

I feel you better off doing what your GP says and after your off all this redo

labs.

Not everyone feels the same stopping TRT but I think you will be fine. Just

take it easy don't worry about this better to be safe then sorry.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Gibcast <gibcast@...>

> Subject: Problematic situation with testosterone now!

>

> Date: Friday, August 13, 2010, 11:15 AM

> My GP just called me. He tells me

> that he discussed with a Hematologist today at a hospital in

> Oslo, Norway. And they both warned me strongly about taking

> testosterone gel, and my GP told me to QUIT taking

> testosterone gel THIS INSTANT, cause my Hematocrite is 57

> (Range: 40 - 50), and my Hemoglobin is 18. (Range: 13.4 -

> 17.0).

> He told me that it isn't necessary to drain blood now, but

> by drinking more water, quitting testosterone gel AND

> quitting IRON (how am I gonna get my Ferritin up to tolerate

> T3 THEN?) I will probably improve soon.

> GP warned me strongly about strokes, and was very serious

> about this. He also told me that Hertoghe runs a risky

> business because my GP has not received ONE note from him

> sine I started at Hertoghe's clinic in March this year. GP

> does not know what's going on with my medications, doses,

> Hertoghe's plans for me improving etc.

> GP also told me he wants to maybe put me into a hospital on

> Monday to find out if I have some diseases; Polycytemia, and

> Hematomacrosis, and other things, just to be sure. FINALLY

> the public health system is reacting! I always thought they

> are bad at running tests over here. It is a free health care

> system, but it is NOT fast, nor thorough, imho.

> Anyway... This is my situation. Hertoghe won't be back til

> September, and I am being told to quit TESTOSTERONE GEL and

> IRON today.

> Phil, will quitting 2 pumps daily down to Zero be ok? I

> guess I will become sleepy and tired, but it's not DANGEROUS

> to quit cold turkey with testo gel is it? It would be more

> dangerous to continue taking it now, I think.

> I don't know how to feel. I am scared. Should I run to the

> ER and drain some blood, or???

>

>

>

>      

>

>

[Guest guest]

Can it possibly be DHEA making my blood thicker from being converted into

Estradiol, thus leaving my blood thicker?

Will too much Estradiol in a man make his blood thicker?

This is driving me nuts! I feel bad, and just... Don't know what to do! So I'll

stop testosterone gel, and iron. And hope my hematocrit goes down with

hemoglobin.

> From: Gibcast <gibcast@...>

> Subject: Problematic situation with testosterone now!

>

> Date: Friday, August 13, 2010, 11:15 AM

> My GP just called me. He tells me

> that he discussed with a Hematologist today at a hospital in

> Oslo, Norway. And they both warned me strongly about taking

> testosterone gel, and my GP told me to QUIT taking

> testosterone gel THIS INSTANT, cause my Hematocrite is 57

> (Range: 40 - 50), and my Hemoglobin is 18. (Range: 13.4 -

> 17.0).

> He told me that it isn't necessary to drain blood now, but

> by drinking more water, quitting testosterone gel AND

> quitting IRON (how am I gonna get my Ferritin up to tolerate

> T3 THEN?) I will probably improve soon.

> GP warned me strongly about strokes, and was very serious

> about this. He also told me that Hertoghe runs a risky

> business because my GP has not received ONE note from him

> sine I started at Hertoghe's clinic in March this year. GP

> does not know what's going on with my medications, doses,

> Hertoghe's plans for me improving etc.

> GP also told me he wants to maybe put me into a hospital on

> Monday to find out if I have some diseases; Polycytemia, and

> Hematomacrosis, and other things, just to be sure. FINALLY

> the public health system is reacting! I always thought they

> are bad at running tests over here. It is a free health care

> system, but it is NOT fast, nor thorough, imho.

> Anyway... This is my situation. Hertoghe won't be back til

> September, and I am being told to quit TESTOSTERONE GEL and

> IRON today.

> Phil, will quitting 2 pumps daily down to Zero be ok? I

> guess I will become sleepy and tired, but it's not DANGEROUS

> to quit cold turkey with testo gel is it? It would be more

> dangerous to continue taking it now, I think.

> I don't know how to feel. I am scared. Should I run to the

> ER and drain some blood, or???

>

>

>

>      

>

>

[Guest guest]

No, estradiol is not involved in RBC synthesis.

>

>

>

> > From: Gibcast <gibcast@...>

>

> > Subject: Problematic situation with testosterone now!

>

> >

>

> > Date: Friday, August 13, 2010, 11:15 AM

>

> > My GP just called me. He tells me

>

> > that he discussed with a Hematologist today at a hospital in

>

> > Oslo, Norway. And they both warned me strongly about taking

>

> > testosterone gel, and my GP told me to QUIT taking

>

> > testosterone gel THIS INSTANT, cause my Hematocrite is 57

>

> > (Range: 40 - 50), and my Hemoglobin is 18. (Range: 13.4 -

>

> > 17.0).

>

> > He told me that it isn't necessary to drain blood now, but

>

> > by drinking more water, quitting testosterone gel AND

>

> > quitting IRON (how am I gonna get my Ferritin up to tolerate

>

> > T3 THEN?) I will probably improve soon.

>

> > GP warned me strongly about strokes, and was very serious

>

> > about this. He also told me that Hertoghe runs a risky

>

> > business because my GP has not received ONE note from him

>

> > sine I started at Hertoghe's clinic in March this year. GP

>

> > does not know what's going on with my medications, doses,

>

> > Hertoghe's plans for me improving etc.

>

> > GP also told me he wants to maybe put me into a hospital on

>

> > Monday to find out if I have some diseases; Polycytemia, and

>

> > Hematomacrosis, and other things, just to be sure. FINALLY

>

> > the public health system is reacting! I always thought they

>

> > are bad at running tests over here. It is a free health care

>

> > system, but it is NOT fast, nor thorough, imho.

>

> > Anyway... This is my situation. Hertoghe won't be back til

>

> > September, and I am being told to quit TESTOSTERONE GEL and

>

> > IRON today.

>

> > Phil, will quitting 2 pumps daily down to Zero be ok? I

>

> > guess I will become sleepy and tired, but it's not DANGEROUS

>

> > to quit cold turkey with testo gel is it? It would be more

>

> > dangerous to continue taking it now, I think.

>

> > I don't know how to feel. I am scared. Should I run to the

>

> > ER and drain some blood, or???

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >      

>

> >

>

> >

[Guest guest]

, the hormone erythropoietin is what stimulates RBC.

Testosterone, HC, and thyroid are all known to stimulate this. You are

on all three. Which one is off in you is for your doc to determine.

Hopefully he measures your erythropoietin because that is a simple blood

test. Apparently he is aware of the testosterone connection, but not

the other two. If he is not aware, show him some of these articles.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1749-6632.1968.tb15172.x/ab\

stract

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL & _udi=B6WG0-4DMNM0Y-4\

D & _user=10 & _coverDate=08%2F31%2F1973 & _rdoc=1 & _fmt=high & _orig=search & _sor\

t=d & _docanchor= & view=c & _searchStrId=1430135225 & _rerunOrigin=google & _acct\

=C000050221 & _version=1 & _urlVersion=0 & _userid=10 & md5=c119d83be388811cd934\

c5429e4476f0

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1600-0609.1987.tb01151.x/ab\

stract

>

>

>

> > From: Gibcast gibcast@...

>

> > Subject: Problematic situation with testosterone now!

>

> >

>

> > Date: Friday, August 13, 2010, 11:15 AM

>

> > My GP just called me. He tells me

>

> > that he discussed with a Hematologist today at a hospital in

>

> > Oslo, Norway. And they both warned me strongly about taking

>

> > testosterone gel, and my GP told me to QUIT taking

>

> > testosterone gel THIS INSTANT, cause my Hematocrite is 57

>

> > (Range: 40 - 50), and my Hemoglobin is 18. (Range: 13.4 -

>

> > 17.0).

>

> > He told me that it isn't necessary to drain blood now, but

>

> > by drinking more water, quitting testosterone gel AND

>

> > quitting IRON (how am I gonna get my Ferritin up to tolerate

>

> > T3 THEN?) I will probably improve soon.

>

> > GP warned me strongly about strokes, and was very serious

>

> > about this. He also told me that Hertoghe runs a risky

>

> > business because my GP has not received ONE note from him

>

> > sine I started at Hertoghe's clinic in March this year. GP

>

> > does not know what's going on with my medications, doses,

>

> > Hertoghe's plans for me improving etc.

>

> > GP also told me he wants to maybe put me into a hospital on

>

> > Monday to find out if I have some diseases; Polycytemia, and

>

> > Hematomacrosis, and other things, just to be sure. FINALLY

>

> > the public health system is reacting! I always thought they

>

> > are bad at running tests over here. It is a free health care

>

> > system, but it is NOT fast, nor thorough, imho.

>

> > Anyway... This is my situation. Hertoghe won't be back til

>

> > September, and I am being told to quit TESTOSTERONE GEL and

>

> > IRON today.

>

> > Phil, will quitting 2 pumps daily down to Zero be ok? I

>

> > guess I will become sleepy and tired, but it's not DANGEROUS

>

> > to quit cold turkey with testo gel is it? It would be more

>

> > dangerous to continue taking it now, I think.

>

> > I don't know how to feel. I am scared. Should I run to the

>

> > ER and drain some blood, or???

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Â Â Â

>

> >

>

> >

[Guest guest]

I never looked into DHEA and blood thickness but yes to much DHEA supplements

can convert into Estradiol.

Don't go off stopping all kinds of things if you do this you will not know what

was doing this if anything is.

Try not letting this all upset you worrying and stress will make you feel worse.

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

>

>

> > From: Gibcast <gibcast@...>

>

> > Subject: Problematic situation with

> testosterone now!

>

> >

>

> > Date: Friday, August 13, 2010, 11:15 AM

>

> > My GP just called me. He tells me

>

> > that he discussed with a Hematologist today at a

> hospital in

>

> > Oslo, Norway. And they both warned me strongly about

> taking

>

> > testosterone gel, and my GP told me to QUIT taking

>

> > testosterone gel THIS INSTANT, cause my Hematocrite is

> 57

>

> > (Range: 40 - 50), and my Hemoglobin is 18. (Range:

> 13.4 -

>

> > 17.0).

>

> > He told me that it isn't necessary to drain blood now,

> but

>

> > by drinking more water, quitting testosterone gel AND

>

> > quitting IRON (how am I gonna get my Ferritin up to

> tolerate

>

> > T3 THEN?) I will probably improve soon.

>

> > GP warned me strongly about strokes, and was very

> serious

>

> > about this. He also told me that Hertoghe runs a

> risky

>

> > business because my GP has not received ONE note from

> him

>

> > sine I started at Hertoghe's clinic in March this

> year. GP

>

> > does not know what's going on with my medications,

> doses,

>

> > Hertoghe's plans for me improving etc.

>

> > GP also told me he wants to maybe put me into a

> hospital on

>

> > Monday to find out if I have some diseases;

> Polycytemia, and

>

> > Hematomacrosis, and other things, just to be sure.

> FINALLY

>

> > the public health system is reacting! I always thought

> they

>

> > are bad at running tests over here. It is a free

> health care

>

> > system, but it is NOT fast, nor thorough, imho.

>

> > Anyway... This is my situation. Hertoghe won't be back

> til

>

> > September, and I am being told to quit TESTOSTERONE

> GEL and

>

> > IRON today.

>

> > Phil, will quitting 2 pumps daily down to Zero be ok?

> I

>

> > guess I will become sleepy and tired, but it's not

> DANGEROUS

>

> > to quit cold turkey with testo gel is it? It would be

> more

>

> > dangerous to continue taking it now, I think.

>

> > I don't know how to feel. I am scared. Should I run to

> the

>

> > ER and drain some blood, or???

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >      

>

> >

>

> >

[Guest guest]

Good one Barb I did not know about this.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Barb <baba@...>

> Subject: Re: Problematic situation with testosterone now!

>

> Date: Friday, August 13, 2010, 3:55 PM

> , the hormone erythropoietin is

> what stimulates RBC.

> Testosterone, HC, and thyroid are all known to stimulate

> this.  You are

> on all three.  Which one is off in you is for your doc

> to determine.

> Hopefully he measures your erythropoietin because that is a

> simple blood

> test.  Apparently he is aware of the testosterone

> connection, but not

> the other two.  If he is not aware, show him some of

> these articles.

>

>

[Guest guest]

My GP is who's checking me weekly. And this time he's on alert with my

thickening blood, and increasing blood volume. It's probably Testosterone doing

this to me cause my blood wasn't that thick til I started Testosterone!

But what is the solution? To stay on testosterone and just drain some blood and

throw it away? Plebomectamy? (Spelling? Something like that! ) Or to stop

testosterone like I am gonna do tomorrow, temporarily to get the hematocrit

down? Or what?

I will email him the links! Thanks!!!

, the hormone erythropoietin is what stimulates RBC. 

Testosterone, HC, and thyroid are all known to stimulate this. You are

on all three. Which one is off in you is for your doc to determine.

Hopefully he measures your erythropoietin because that is a simple blood

test. Apparently he is aware of the testosterone connection, but not

the other two. If he is not aware, show him some of these articles.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1749-6632.1968.tb15172.x/ab\

stract

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL & _udi=B6WG0-4DMNM0Y-4\

D & _user=10 & _coverDate=08%2F31%2F1973 & _rdoc=1 & _fmt=high & _orig=search & _sor\

t=d & _docanchor= & view=c & _searchStrId=1430135225 & _rerunOrigin=google & _acct\

=C000050221 & _version=1 & _urlVersion=0 & _userid=10 & md5=c119d83be388811cd934\

c5429e4476f0

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1600-0609.1987.tb01151.x/ab\

stract

>

>

>

> > From: Gibcast gibcast@...

>

> > Subject: Problematic situation with testosterone now!

>

> >

>

> > Date: Friday, August 13, 2010, 11:15 AM

>

> > My GP just called me. He tells me

>

> > that he discussed with a Hematologist today at a hospital in

>

> > Oslo, Norway. And they both warned me strongly about taking

>

> > testosterone gel, and my GP told me to QUIT taking

>

> > testosterone gel THIS INSTANT, cause my Hematocrite is 57

>

> > (Range: 40 - 50), and my Hemoglobin is 18. (Range: 13.4 -

>

> > 17.0).

>

> > He told me that it isn't necessary to drain blood now, but

>

> > by drinking more water, quitting testosterone gel AND

>

> > quitting IRON (how am I gonna get my Ferritin up to tolerate

>

> > T3 THEN?) I will probably improve soon.

>

> > GP warned me strongly about strokes, and was very serious

>

> > about this. He also told me that Hertoghe runs a risky

>

> > business because my GP has not received ONE note from him

>

> > sine I started at Hertoghe's clinic in March this year. GP

>

> > does not know what's going on with my medications, doses,

>

> > Hertoghe's plans for me improving etc.

>

> > GP also told me he wants to maybe put me into a hospital on

>

> > Monday to find out if I have some diseases; Polycytemia, and

>

> > Hematomacrosis, and other things, just to be sure. FINALLY

>

> > the public health system is reacting! I always thought they

>

> > are bad at running tests over here. It is a free health care

>

> > system, but it is NOT fast, nor thorough, imho.

>

> > Anyway... This is my situation. Hertoghe won't be back til

>

> > September, and I am being told to quit TESTOSTERONE GEL and

>

> > IRON today.

>

> > Phil, will quitting 2 pumps daily down to Zero be ok? I

>

> > guess I will become sleepy and tired, but it's not DANGEROUS

>

> > to quit cold turkey with testo gel is it? It would be more

>

> > dangerous to continue taking it now, I think.

>

> > I don't know how to feel. I am scared. Should I run to the

>

> > ER and drain some blood, or???

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Â Â Â

>

> >

>

> >

[Guest guest]

Yeah but what to do. Just stop one thing? Testosterone? It's the least important

hormone I am taking right? HC and THYROID obviously being the most important

ones in that order. Then DHEA and testosterone. Will I be ok for sure stopping

200 mg testo in one day? I am scared... BP now at 10 pm is 150/85, pulse 75.

The thing that makes me stress is NOT KNOWING A THING - If I need MORE or LESS

salt is one of the worst worries! If I could only KNOW.

I just posted my Sodium labs at the NTHA-group.

>

>

>

> > From: Gibcast <gibcast@...>

>

> > Subject: Problematic situation with

> testosterone now!

>

> >

>

> > Date: Friday, August 13, 2010, 11:15 AM

>

> > My GP just called me. He tells me

>

> > that he discussed with a Hematologist today at a

> hospital in

>

> > Oslo, Norway. And they both warned me strongly about

> taking

>

> > testosterone gel, and my GP told me to QUIT taking

>

> > testosterone gel THIS INSTANT, cause my Hematocrite is

> 57

>

> > (Range: 40 - 50), and my Hemoglobin is 18. (Range:

> 13.4 -

>

> > 17.0).

>

> > He told me that it isn't necessary to drain blood now,

> but

>

> > by drinking more water, quitting testosterone gel AND

>

> > quitting IRON (how am I gonna get my Ferritin up to

> tolerate

>

> > T3 THEN?) I will probably improve soon.

>

> > GP warned me strongly about strokes, and was very

> serious

>

> > about this. He also told me that Hertoghe runs a

> risky

>

> > business because my GP has not received ONE note from

> him

>

> > sine I started at Hertoghe's clinic in March this

> year. GP

>

> > does not know what's going on with my medications,

> doses,

>

> > Hertoghe's plans for me improving etc.

>

> > GP also told me he wants to maybe put me into a

> hospital on

>

> > Monday to find out if I have some diseases;

> Polycytemia, and

>

> > Hematomacrosis, and other things, just to be sure.

> FINALLY

>

> > the public health system is reacting! I always thought

> they

>

> > are bad at running tests over here. It is a free

> health care

>

> > system, but it is NOT fast, nor thorough, imho.

>

> > Anyway... This is my situation. Hertoghe won't be back

> til

>

> > September, and I am being told to quit TESTOSTERONE

> GEL and

>

> > IRON today.

>

> > Phil, will quitting 2 pumps daily down to Zero be ok?

> I

>

> > guess I will become sleepy and tired, but it's not

> DANGEROUS

>

> > to quit cold turkey with testo gel is it? It would be

> more

>

> > dangerous to continue taking it now, I think.

>

> > I don't know how to feel. I am scared. Should I run to

> the

>

> > ER and drain some blood, or???

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >      

>

> >

>

> >

[Guest guest]

Ok, thanks a lot for that piece of info. At least I can relax thinking my

highening E2 is not doing this.

I was put on 200 mg testosterone (2 grams of gel, 200 mg testo!) daily, but

started with half that dose. I didn't see the rise in HCT and HGB til this week,

after being on the 2 pumps (2 gram gel / 200 mg testo) for more than 2 months.

I am not taking a lot of DHEA, only 35 mg every other day, and my levels are

still low range, so how can that convert to E2 btw? Isn't it only excess DHEA

when you take too much it will convert wrongly?

From: Barb <baba@...>

Subject: Re: Problematic situation with testosterone now!

Date: Friday, August 13, 2010, 9:28 PM

 

No, estradiol is not involved in RBC synthesis.

>

>

>

> > From: Gibcast <gibcast@...>

>

> > Subject: Problematic situation with testosterone now!

>

> >

>

> > Date: Friday, August 13, 2010, 11:15 AM

>

> > My GP just called me. He tells me

>

> > that he discussed with a Hematologist today at a hospital in

>

> > Oslo, Norway. And they both warned me strongly about taking

>

> > testosterone gel, and my GP told me to QUIT taking

>

> > testosterone gel THIS INSTANT, cause my Hematocrite is 57

>

> > (Range: 40 - 50), and my Hemoglobin is 18. (Range: 13.4 -

>

> > 17.0).

>

> > He told me that it isn't necessary to drain blood now, but

>

> > by drinking more water, quitting testosterone gel AND

>

> > quitting IRON (how am I gonna get my Ferritin up to tolerate

>

> > T3 THEN?) I will probably improve soon.

>

> > GP warned me strongly about strokes, and was very serious

>

> > about this. He also told me that Hertoghe runs a risky

>

> > business because my GP has not received ONE note from him

>

> > sine I started at Hertoghe's clinic in March this year. GP

>

> > does not know what's going on with my medications, doses,

>

> > Hertoghe's plans for me improving etc.

>

> > GP also told me he wants to maybe put me into a hospital on

>

> > Monday to find out if I have some diseases; Polycytemia, and

>

> > Hematomacrosis, and other things, just to be sure. FINALLY

>

> > the public health system is reacting! I always thought they

>

> > are bad at running tests over here. It is a free health care

>

> > system, but it is NOT fast, nor thorough, imho.

>

> > Anyway... This is my situation. Hertoghe won't be back til

>

> > September, and I am being told to quit TESTOSTERONE GEL and

>

> > IRON today.

>

> > Phil, will quitting 2 pumps daily down to Zero be ok? I

>

> > guess I will become sleepy and tired, but it's not DANGEROUS

>

> > to quit cold turkey with testo gel is it? It would be more

>

> > dangerous to continue taking it now, I think.

>

> > I don't know how to feel. I am scared. Should I run to the

>

> > ER and drain some blood, or???

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >      

>

> >

>

> >

[Guest guest]

Gibcast <gibcast@...> wrote:

> I am not taking a lot of DHEA, only 35 mg every other day, and my levels are

still low range, so how can that convert to E2 btw? Isn't it only excess DHEA

when you take too much it will convert wrongly?

No, I believe 5 mg a day in my hubby was converting to E2 or something that made

him more depressed. I stopped the DHEA, he came right back. When you are

hormonally off, everything converts every which way, in ways you don't think.

To further complicate matters, everything is somehow interrelated. You

certainly do not follow the arrows on a normal conversion chart !

[Guest guest]

I feel it's about dose and levels some men need to do shots, gels don't act

right for them. In my case the gel going through my skin dose not support my

joints and muscles. You can do shots at a lower dose more offten like every 3

days.

Pellets are slow and might work for you it puts the T into your blood a little

at a time.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> , the hormone erythropoietin is what stimulates

> RBC. 

>

> Testosterone, HC, and thyroid are all known to stimulate

> this.  You are

>

> on all three.  Which one is off in you is for your doc

> to determine.

>

> Hopefully he measures your erythropoietin because that is a

> simple blood

>

> test.  Apparently he is aware of the testosterone

> connection, but not

>

> the other two.  If he is not aware, show him some of

> these articles.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Just do what your GP told you to do for now.

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > > From: Gibcast <gibcast@...>

>

> >

>

> > > Subject: Problematic situation

> with

>

> > testosterone now!

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > Date: Friday, August 13, 2010, 11:15 AM

>

> >

>

> > > My GP just called me. He tells me

>

> >

>

> > > that he discussed with a Hematologist today at a

>

> > hospital in

>

> >

>

> > > Oslo, Norway. And they both warned me strongly

> about

>

> > taking

>

> >

>

> > > testosterone gel, and my GP told me to QUIT

> taking

>

> >

>

> > > testosterone gel THIS INSTANT, cause my

> Hematocrite is

>

> > 57

>

> >

>

> > > (Range: 40 - 50), and my Hemoglobin is 18.

> (Range:

>

> > 13.4 -

>

> >

>

> > > 17.0).

>

> >

>

> > > He told me that it isn't necessary to drain blood

> now,

>

> > but

>

> >

>

> > > by drinking more water, quitting testosterone gel

> AND

>

> >

>

> > > quitting IRON (how am I gonna get my Ferritin up

> to

>

> > tolerate

>

> >

>

> > > T3 THEN?) I will probably improve soon.

>

> >

>

> > > GP warned me strongly about strokes, and was

> very

>

> > serious

>

> >

>

> > > about this. He also told me that Hertoghe runs a

>

> > risky

>

> >

>

> > > business because my GP has not received ONE note

> from

>

> > him

>

> >

>

> > > sine I started at Hertoghe's clinic in March

> this

>

> > year. GP

>

> >

>

> > > does not know what's going on with my

> medications,

>

> > doses,

>

> >

>

> > > Hertoghe's plans for me improving etc.

>

> >

>

> > > GP also told me he wants to maybe put me into a

>

> > hospital on

>

> >

>

> > > Monday to find out if I have some diseases;

>

> > Polycytemia, and

>

> >

>

> > > Hematomacrosis, and other things, just to be

> sure.

>

> > FINALLY

>

> >

>

> > > the public health system is reacting! I always

> thought

>

> > they

>

> >

>

> > > are bad at running tests over here. It is a free

>

> > health care

>

> >

>

> > > system, but it is NOT fast, nor thorough, imho.

>

> >

>

> > > Anyway... This is my situation. Hertoghe won't be

> back

>

> > til

>

> >

>

> > > September, and I am being told to quit

> TESTOSTERONE

>

> > GEL and

>

> >

>

> > > IRON today.

>

> >

>

> > > Phil, will quitting 2 pumps daily down to Zero be

> ok?

>

> > I

>

> >

>

> > > guess I will become sleepy and tired, but it's

> not

>

> > DANGEROUS

>

> >

>

> > > to quit cold turkey with testo gel is it? It

> would be

>

> > more

>

> >

>

> > > dangerous to continue taking it now, I think.

>

> >

>

> > > I don't know how to feel. I am scared. Should I

> run to

>

> > the

>

> >

>

> > > ER and drain some blood, or???

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > >      

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > ------------------------------------

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > >

[Guest guest]

Yes DHEA converts into Estradiol when your levels get to high on too much DHEA.

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> From: Barb <baba@...>

> Subject: Re: Problematic situation with

> testosterone now!

>

> Date: Friday, August 13, 2010, 9:28 PM

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>  

>

>

>

>  

>

>

>    

>      

>      

>       No, estradiol is not involved in RBC

> synthesis.

>

>

>

>

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > > From: Gibcast <gibcast@...>

>

> >

>

> > > Subject: Problematic situation

> with testosterone now!

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > Date: Friday, August 13, 2010, 11:15 AM

>

> >

>

> > > My GP just called me. He tells me

>

> >

>

> > > that he discussed with a Hematologist today at a

> hospital in

>

> >

>

> > > Oslo, Norway. And they both warned me strongly

> about taking

>

> >

>

> > > testosterone gel, and my GP told me to QUIT

> taking

>

> >

>

> > > testosterone gel THIS INSTANT, cause my

> Hematocrite is 57

>

> >

>

> > > (Range: 40 - 50), and my Hemoglobin is 18.

> (Range: 13.4 -

>

> >

>

> > > 17.0).

>

> >

>

> > > He told me that it isn't necessary to drain blood

> now, but

>

> >

>

> > > by drinking more water, quitting testosterone gel

> AND

>

> >

>

> > > quitting IRON (how am I gonna get my Ferritin up

> to tolerate

>

> >

>

> > > T3 THEN?) I will probably improve soon.

>

> >

>

> > > GP warned me strongly about strokes, and was very

> serious

>

> >

>

> > > about this. He also told me that Hertoghe runs a

> risky

>

> >

>

> > > business because my GP has not received ONE note

> from him

>

> >

>

> > > sine I started at Hertoghe's clinic in March this

> year. GP

>

> >

>

> > > does not know what's going on with my

> medications, doses,

>

> >

>

> > > Hertoghe's plans for me improving etc.

>

> >

>

> > > GP also told me he wants to maybe put me into a

> hospital on

>

> >

>

> > > Monday to find out if I have some diseases;

> Polycytemia, and

>

> >

>

> > > Hematomacrosis, and other things, just to be

> sure. FINALLY

>

> >

>

> > > the public health system is reacting! I always

> thought they

>

> >

>

> > > are bad at running tests over here. It is a free

> health care

>

> >

>

> > > system, but it is NOT fast, nor thorough, imho.

>

> >

>

> > > Anyway... This is my situation. Hertoghe won't be

> back til

>

> >

>

> > > September, and I am being told to quit

> TESTOSTERONE GEL and

>

> >

>

> > > IRON today.

>

> >

>

> > > Phil, will quitting 2 pumps daily down to Zero be

> ok? I

>

> >

>

> > > guess I will become sleepy and tired, but it's

> not DANGEROUS

>

> >

>

> > > to quit cold turkey with testo gel is it? It

> would be more

>

> >

>

> > > dangerous to continue taking it now, I think.

>

> >

>

> > > I don't know how to feel. I am scared. Should I

> run to the

>

> >

>

> > > ER and drain some blood, or???

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > >      

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > ------------------------------------

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > >

[Guest guest]

Yes this is true but he is shopping T meds so I don't feel he is going to have

high E2 it will drop.

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> > I am not taking a lot of DHEA, only 35 mg every other

> day, and my levels are still low range, so how can that

> convert to E2 btw? Isn't it only excess DHEA when you take

> too much it will convert wrongly?

>

> No, I believe 5 mg a day in my hubby was converting to E2

> or something that made him more depressed.  I stopped

> the DHEA, he came right back.  When you are hormonally

> off, everything converts every which way, in ways you don't

> think.  To further complicate matters, everything is

> somehow interrelated.  You certainly do not follow the

> arrows on a normal conversion chart !

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Do you Think I would convert better if I was taking Growth Hormone as well?

Hertoghe believes in treating many hormones together like an orchestra! He says

One hormone rarely work well alone.

What do you Think is my problem? Why do I convert to E2?

And my blood was already thick (50) and a

Lot (17) before starting the hormones!

Sendt fra min iPhone

Den 13. aug. 2010 kl. 22.51 skrev " Barb " <baba@...>:

Gibcast <gibcast@...> wrote:

> I am not taking a lot of DHEA, only 35 mg every other day, and my levels are

still low range, so how can that convert to E2 btw? Isn't it only excess DHEA

when you take too much it will convert wrongly?

No, I believe 5 mg a day in my hubby was converting to E2 or something that made

him more depressed. I stopped the DHEA, he came right back. When you are

hormonally off, everything converts every which way, in ways you don't think. To

further complicate matters, everything is somehow interrelated. You certainly do

not follow the arrows on a normal conversion chart !

[Guest guest]

I don't know still trying to figure out if GH is helping me. I would try to

find out if the T is making your blood like this or is it something other then T

doing this.

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> > I am not taking a lot of DHEA, only 35 mg every other

> day, and my levels are still low range, so how can that

> convert to E2 btw? Isn't it only excess DHEA when you take

> too much it will convert wrongly?

>

> No, I believe 5 mg a day in my hubby was converting to E2

> or something that made him more depressed. I stopped the

> DHEA, he came right back. When you are hormonally off,

> everything converts every which way, in ways you don't

> think. To further complicate matters, everything is somehow

> interrelated. You certainly do not follow the arrows on a

> normal conversion chart !

>

>

>

>

>

>      

>

>

[Guest guest]

And that would be just quitting T tomorrow and see how it goes? How many days

til I need to test hemoglobine and hematocrite after I stop T? Anything Else I

need to test?

Sendt fra min iPhone

Den 13. aug. 2010 kl. 23.11 skrev philip georgian <pmgamer18@...>:

I don't know still trying to figure out if GH is helping me. I would try to find

out if the T is making your blood like this or is it something other then T

doing this.

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> > I am not taking a lot of DHEA, only 35 mg every other

> day, and my levels are still low range, so how can that

> convert to E2 btw? Isn't it only excess DHEA when you take

> too much it will convert wrongly?

>

> No, I believe 5 mg a day in my hubby was converting to E2

> or something that made him more depressed. I stopped the

> DHEA, he came right back. When you are hormonally off,

> everything converts every which way, in ways you don't

> think. To further complicate matters, everything is somehow

> interrelated. You certainly do not follow the arrows on a

> normal conversion chart !

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I would say 2 weeks.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> >

> > > I am not taking a lot of DHEA, only 35 mg every

> other

> > day, and my levels are still low range, so how can

> that

> > convert to E2 btw? Isn't it only excess DHEA when you

> take

> > too much it will convert wrongly?

> >

> > No, I believe 5 mg a day in my hubby was converting to

> E2

> > or something that made him more depressed. I stopped

> the

> > DHEA, he came right back. When you are hormonally

> off,

> > everything converts every which way, in ways you

> don't

> > think. To further complicate matters, everything is

> somehow

> > interrelated. You certainly do not follow the arrows

> on a

> > normal conversion chart !

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >       

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

But my blood only bevame thicker on Monday this week, and I upped 1 pump dose T

to 2 pumps like 2+ months ago.

Why the delayed increase in hematocrit

And hemoglobin? 2 weeks to bring it down but..

8+ weeks before it raised?

Sendt fra min iPhone

Den 14. aug. 2010 kl. 00.28 skrev philip georgian <pmgamer18@...>:

I would say 2 weeks.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> >

> > > I am not taking a lot of DHEA, only 35 mg every

> other

> > day, and my levels are still low range, so how can

> that

> > convert to E2 btw? Isn't it only excess DHEA when you

> take

> > too much it will convert wrongly?

> >

> > No, I believe 5 mg a day in my hubby was converting to

> E2

> > or something that made him more depressed. I stopped

> the

> > DHEA, he came right back. When you are hormonally

> off,

> > everything converts every which way, in ways you

> don't

> > think. To further complicate matters, everything is

> somehow

> > interrelated. You certainly do not follow the arrows

> on a

> > normal conversion chart !

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I only say this because your Testosterone levels will be very low by 2 weeks.

Better yet ask your GP when to retest.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> > >

> > > > I am not taking a lot of DHEA, only 35 mg

> every

> > other

> > > day, and my levels are still low range, so how

> can

> > that

> > > convert to E2 btw? Isn't it only excess DHEA when

> you

> > take

> > > too much it will convert wrongly?

> > >

> > > No, I believe 5 mg a day in my hubby was

> converting to

> > E2

> > > or something that made him more depressed. I

> stopped

> > the

> > > DHEA, he came right back. When you are

> hormonally

> > off,

> > > everything converts every which way, in ways you

> > don't

> > > think. To further complicate matters, everything

> is

> > somehow

> > > interrelated. You certainly do not follow the

> arrows

> > on a

> > > normal conversion chart !

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >       

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

But T levels will not be below what they were before I started TRT?

Ah ok. I was just wondering about hematocrit and hemoglobin, how thy could ruse

to slowly SMS so sudden.

Sendt fra min iPhone

Den 14. aug. 2010 kl. 00.52 skrev philip georgian <pmgamer18@...>:

I only say this because your Testosterone levels will be very low by 2 weeks.

Better yet ask your GP when to retest.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> > >

> > > > I am not taking a lot of DHEA, only 35 mg

> every

> > other

> > > day, and my levels are still low range, so how

> can

> > that

> > > convert to E2 btw? Isn't it only excess DHEA when

> you

> > take

> > > too much it will convert wrongly?

> > >

> > > No, I believe 5 mg a day in my hubby was

> converting to

> > E2

> > > or something that made him more depressed. I

> stopped

> > the

> > > DHEA, he came right back. When you are

> hormonally

> > off,

> > > everything converts every which way, in ways you

> > don't

> > > think. To further complicate matters, everything

> is

> > somehow

> > > interrelated. You certainly do not follow the

> arrows

> > on a

> > > normal conversion chart !

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

No I don't feel they will drop this low if they do it will be a very short time

less then a day.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> > > >

> > > > > I am not taking a lot of DHEA, only 35

> mg

> > every

> > > other

> > > > day, and my levels are still low range, so

> how

> > can

> > > that

> > > > convert to E2 btw? Isn't it only excess DHEA

> when

> > you

> > > take

> > > > too much it will convert wrongly?

> > > >

> > > > No, I believe 5 mg a day in my hubby was

> > converting to

> > > E2

> > > > or something that made him more depressed.

> I

> > stopped

> > > the

> > > > DHEA, he came right back. When you are

> > hormonally

> > > off,

> > > > everything converts every which way, in ways

> you

> > > don't

> > > > think. To further complicate matters,

> everything

> > is

> > > somehow

> > > > interrelated. You certainly do not follow

> the

> > arrows

> > > on a

> > > > normal conversion chart !

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >       

> > > >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have

> been

> > removed]

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

So hematorit ad hemoglobin can fall in one day when stopping TRT?

I do see a pulse down to the 50s now, perhaps due to no sea salt today, more

plain water and

Maybe too much potassium compared to sodium? I normally hVe a pulse of 80.

Sendt fra min iPhone

Den 14. aug. 2010 kl. 01.05 skrev philip georgian <pmgamer18@...>:

No I don't feel they will drop this low if they do it will be a very short time

less then a day.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> > > >

> > > > > I am not taking a lot of DHEA, only 35

> mg

> > every

> > > other

> > > > day, and my levels are still low range, so

> how

> > can

> > > that

> > > > convert to E2 btw? Isn't it only excess DHEA

> when

> > you

> > > take

> > > > too much it will convert wrongly?

> > > >

> > > > No, I believe 5 mg a day in my hubby was

> > converting to

> > > E2

> > > > or something that made him more depressed.

> I

> > stopped

> > > the

> > > > DHEA, he came right back. When you are

> > hormonally

> > > off,

> > > > everything converts every which way, in ways

> you

> > > don't

> > > > think. To further complicate matters,

> everything

> > is

> > > somehow

> > > > interrelated. You certainly do not follow

> the

> > arrows

> > > on a

> > > > normal conversion chart !

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have

> been

> > removed]

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Btw I also had increases RED BLOOD CeLLS, above the top range at 6.24.

Sendt fra min iPhone

Den 14. aug. 2010 kl. 01.05 skrev philip georgian <pmgamer18@...>:

No I don't feel they will drop this low if they do it will be a very short time

less then a day.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> > > >

> > > > > I am not taking a lot of DHEA, only 35

> mg

> > every

> > > other

> > > > day, and my levels are still low range, so

> how

> > can

> > > that

> > > > convert to E2 btw? Isn't it only excess DHEA

> when

> > you

> > > take

> > > > too much it will convert wrongly?

> > > >

> > > > No, I believe 5 mg a day in my hubby was

> > converting to

> > > E2

> > > > or something that made him more depressed.

> I

> > stopped

> > > the

> > > > DHEA, he came right back. When you are

> > hormonally

> > > off,

> > > > everything converts every which way, in ways

> you

> > > don't

> > > > think. To further complicate matters,

> everything

> > is

> > > somehow

> > > > interrelated. You certainly do not follow

> the

> > arrows

> > > on a

> > > > normal conversion chart !

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have

> been

> > removed]

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

No your question was will your Testosteone levels fall lower then your base

levels. I said if they do it would only be for like a day.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> > > > >

> > > > > > I am not taking a lot of DHEA,

> only 35

> > mg

> > > every

> > > > other

> > > > > day, and my levels are still low range,

> so

> > how

> > > can

> > > > that

> > > > > convert to E2 btw? Isn't it only excess

> DHEA

> > when

> > > you

> > > > take

> > > > > too much it will convert wrongly?

> > > > >

> > > > > No, I believe 5 mg a day in my hubby

> was

> > > converting to

> > > > E2

> > > > > or something that made him more

> depressed.

> > I

> > > stopped

> > > > the

> > > > > DHEA, he came right back. When you are

> > > hormonally

> > > > off,

> > > > > everything converts every which way, in

> ways

> > you

> > > > don't

> > > > > think. To further complicate matters,

> > everything

> > > is

> > > > somehow

> > > > > interrelated. You certainly do not

> follow

> > the

> > > arrows

> > > > on a

> > > > > normal conversion chart !

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >       

> > > > >

> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message

> have

> > been

> > > removed]

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > >

> > > > >