Re: Question to Phil/other re.diagnosis of hypogonadism

[Guest guest]

Hi Mark and Welcome,

Did they test your Estradiol levels if they are high it can look like your

Secondary. How this happens is the brain can't tell the difference between

Testosterone and Estradiol and thinks the high Estradiol is Testosterone and

thinks it's a lot. So your Pituitary will slow down sending the LH and FSH

messages to your testis and they stop making Testosterone.

So if you can post your labs with the units and ranges this helps us see what is

going on. If your Estradiol levels were not tested do this first and if they

are high get some Arimidex to bring them down. One home test to tell if your to

high is by your involuntary nocturnal erections that appear during REM (Rapid

Eye Movement) sleep I call this wood.

If you don't have them there is a good chance your Estradiol levels are to high.

Getting them down your Testosterone levels can come back up. You can tell when

your levels are at there best you get your night time and morning wood back.

Now on to your Pituitary in my case my Dr. would not do the GHRH test he tested

IGF-1 and IGFBP-1 or 3 I can't remember also we did an ACTH Stim. test you can't

do this test your on Cortef but this showed me to be secondary what I have is

called Hypopituitary and it is due to a head injury from an auto accident it

only took 23 yrs on TRT not feeling better to find this out.

At the Thyroid forum I am a mod at we have a closed forum called Hypopituitary

ran this forum and is not there anymore. Still we have all the stickies

he did and you still can read old posts.

This link it about the GHRH test that we feel is not all the good.

http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=12 & t=15447

Can you tell me how your feeling and what dose of Cortef your on and how you

take it. I helped make a FAQ's about Adrenals it's full of info about low

Cortisol levels and how to take meds and what to do when your going into Adrenal

failure and need to stress dose your Cortef.

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/faq/

And this is a FAQ's on Hypopituitary that did.

http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=12 & t=15459

There is also some testing you can do they talk about them in the AACE

Guidelines.

A Clomid or HCG stim. test.

http://www.aace.com/pub/pdf/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: kronmark03 <kronmark03@...>

> Subject: Question to Phil/other re.diagnosis of hypogonadism

>

> Date: Saturday, February 13, 2010, 8:23 PM

> Dear Phil and other members.

>

> I am a new member of this forum and have an appointment to

> see a pituitary specialist in a couple of days.  I am

> 37 year old male with low testosterone, low LH and FSH

> levels and I think I have secondary

> hypogonadism.   Besides, I have

> hypothyroidism and low cortisol and am on armour and

> cortef.

>

> My question is regarding a diagnosis of hypogonadism.

> I would like to ask the doctor to refer me for a

> gonadotropin-releasing hormone stimulation test and MRI of

> pituitary to confirm the diagnosis.   I would

> like to know how GRHS stimulation test goes and if it a

> difficult test to undergo.  Also if there are any other

> tests you would suggest for diagnosis, please let me

> know.   

>

> Thank you in advance,

> Mark

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Phil.

Thank you so much for your response.

I have had an estradiol checked and it was high. All my test were done in

Canada where i live except June 25/07 & June 24/08 when i had them done in

Belgium in an excellent lab specializing in hormones.

Here are the results: sorry for formating, after each result there is a range

and units.

Just want to mention that i tried to take DIM to reduce estrogen levels and

could not tolerate it (insomnia, diarrhea, other hyper symptoms).

28-May-03 Testosterone 17.8 10-28 nmol/L

15-Jun-04 LH 1.5 (Low) 2-9 IU/L

FSH 1.2(Low) 2-12 IU/L

Testosterone 4.26 10-28 nmol/l

Estradiol 67 <180 pmol/l

25-Jun-07 Lab in Belgium

FSH 3.5 2-12 IU/L

Testosterone 21.3 10-28 nmol/l

IGFBP-3 4.33 1.73-7.48 mg/L

IGFBP-3/ IGF 1 1.55 0-4.55 mol/mol

25-Oct-07 Testosterone 5579 3,000-10,000 pg/ml

Testosterone free 243 50-280 pg/ml

Bio-testosterone 95.6 %

Androstanediol 7 3.4-22 ng/ml

Estradiol 57 Less than 30 pmol/l

Estrone 160 74-185 pmol/l

24-Jun-08 Lab in Belgium

Estradiol 63 less then 30 pg/ml

Oestrone 45 10-60 pg/ml

LH 2.9 (Low) 3-18 miu/ml

FSH 3(Low) 2-15 miu/ml

Testosterone 4679 3,000-10,000 nmol/l

Testosterone free 184 50-280 pg/ml

Bio-testosterone 96.1 %

30-Dec-09 Estradiol 121 95-230 pmol/l

FSH 4.4 1.2-18.5 IU/L

LH 2.9 2.5-16.3 IU/L

Testosterone 19.5 10-38.5 nmol/L

Regarding my treatment of low thyroid and low adrenals, i am not doing well

because i can not tolerate thyroid meds, i am on 5 mg of prednisone, 20 mg

cortef and 0.5 grain armour (used to be cytomel but recently switched to armour)

I will be waiting for your reply,

Mark

>

> > From: kronmark03 <kronmark03@...>

> > Subject: Question to Phil/other re.diagnosis of hypogonadism

> >

> > Date: Saturday, February 13, 2010, 8:23 PM

> > Dear Phil and other members.

> >

> > I am a new member of this forum and have an appointment to

> > see a pituitary specialist in a couple of days.  I am

> > 37 year old male with low testosterone, low LH and FSH

> > levels and I think I have secondary

> > hypogonadism.   Besides, I have

> > hypothyroidism and low cortisol and am on armour and

> > cortef.

> >

> > My question is regarding a diagnosis of hypogonadism.

> > I would like to ask the doctor to refer me for a

> > gonadotropin-releasing hormone stimulation test and MRI of

> > pituitary to confirm the diagnosis.   I would

> > like to know how GRHS stimulation test goes and if it a

> > difficult test to undergo.  Also if there are any other

> > tests you would suggest for diagnosis, please let me

> > know.   

> >

> > Thank you in advance,

> > Mark

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

If people that take DIm can not tolerate it beause they have issue with

methtylation and need either TMG or I prefer Sam-e to help get rid of them. I

just went back on sam-e and my pee is starting to turn dirty yellow and smell

again meaning its getting out of me which was not happening on TMG. I am a

super undermethylator and if you have issues with chemical sensitivity then

sam-e may be the better choice for you then TMG - 200 mgs a day sam-e to start

out for 3 days then increase to 200 am and 200 mid afternnon. Most people that

are athletes are low on sam-e and it helps as saftey gap with gluthione

production as well as liover detoxifier.

> >

> > > From: kronmark03 <kronmark03@>

> > > Subject: Question to Phil/other re.diagnosis of

hypogonadism

> > >

> > > Date: Saturday, February 13, 2010, 8:23 PM

> > > Dear Phil and other members.

> > >

> > > I am a new member of this forum and have an appointment to

> > > see a pituitary specialist in a couple of days.  I am

> > > 37 year old male with low testosterone, low LH and FSH

> > > levels and I think I have secondary

> > > hypogonadism.   Besides, I have

> > > hypothyroidism and low cortisol and am on armour and

> > > cortef.

> > >

> > > My question is regarding a diagnosis of hypogonadism.

> > > I would like to ask the doctor to refer me for a

> > > gonadotropin-releasing hormone stimulation test and MRI of

> > > pituitary to confirm the diagnosis.   I would

> > > like to know how GRHS stimulation test goes and if it a

> > > difficult test to undergo.  Also if there are any other

> > > tests you would suggest for diagnosis, please let me

> > > know.   

> > >

> > > Thank you in advance,

> > > Mark

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Mark your best range for Estraidol is 20 pg/ml or 73 pmol/L. So your last test

at 120 pmol/L is only 32 pg/ml on the high side but not real high. If you took

some Zinc like ZMA and because Zinc lower Copper get some 2 mgs of Copper and

take the ZMA at bed time and the copper at noon. This might bring down your

Estradiol levels.

Now for your Thyroid and Adrenal problems you can't go up on Armour fast you

need to first get your Adrenals supported on Cortef to know when your supported

take your temps starting when your up 3 hrs. every 3 hrs. 3 x's per day. Add

them up and div. by 3 this is your avg. if your avg. goes up or down more then

2ths. your not supported and trying to go up on Armour will make you feel hyper

or sick.

Here is a link on how I got started treating this.

http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=5 & t=24

It took me about a yr. to get my Thyroid leveled after I got my Adrenals

supported.

To day we can't get good Armour like the old Armour was so most are getting ERFA

from Canada it's as good if not better then the old Armour.

http://www.erfa-sa.com/thyroid_usa.htm

Or

http://www.universaldrugstore.com/medications/Thyroid/60mg

Why are you on prednisone 5 mgs this is = to 20 mgs of Cortef. So your on 20

mgs of Cortef and with the 5mgs of prednisone your on what is = to 40 mgs of HC

this is way to high. If you need more cortef just add more I do 30 mgs /day.

Starting at about 5am I take my Testosterone or HCG shots with my HGH shots and

I do 10 mgs of Cortef with my one grain of Armour. I then go back to bed and

when I wake up at 8am I feel great I eat at 9am and take 5mgs of Cortef then

5mgs at 1pm and 5mgs at 6 pm. I eat something like peanuts or cheese before

going to bed to keep my sugar levels from falling at night.

Here is a link to FAQ's about treating Adrenals I help make some time ago.

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/faq/

When I do labs I don't take my Armour that morning all I take is 10 mgs of

Cortef I then test my morning fasting Cortisol levels and if they come back

showing a level like 5 to 12 I know I am not on to much Cortef.

And taking prednisone long term is hard on your liver.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: kronmark03 <kronmark03@...>

> Subject: Re: Question to Phil/other re.diagnosis of

hypogonadism

>

> Date: Sunday, February 14, 2010, 10:09 PM

> Hi Phil.

> Thank you so much for your response.

> I have had an estradiol checked and it was high.  All

> my test were done in Canada where i live except June 25/07

> & June 24/08 when i had them done in Belgium in an

> excellent lab specializing in hormones.

> Here are the results: sorry for formating, after each

> result there is a range and units.

> Just want to mention that i tried to take DIM to reduce

> estrogen levels and could not tolerate it (insomnia,

> diarrhea, other hyper symptoms).

>

>

>            

>    

> 28-May-03    Testosterone   

> 17.8    10-28    nmol/L

>            

>    

> 15-Jun-04    LH    1.5

> (Low)    2-9    IU/L

>     FSH   

> 1.2(Low)    2-12    IU/L

>     Testosterone   

> 4.26    10-28    nmol/l

>     Estradiol   

> 67    <180    pmol/l

>            

>    

> 25-Jun-07    Lab in

> Belgium       

>    

>     FSH   

> 3.5    2-12    IU/L

>     Testosterone   

> 21.3    10-28    nmol/l

>     IGFBP-3   

> 4.33    1.73-7.48    mg/L

>     IGFBP-3/ IGF 1   

> 1.55    0-4.55    mol/mol

>            

>    

> 25-Oct-07    Testosterone   

> 5579    3,000-10,000    pg/ml

>     Testosterone free   

> 243    50-280    pg/ml

>     Bio-testosterone   

> 95.6    %   

>     Androstanediol   

> 7    3.4-22    ng/ml

>     Estradiol   

> 57    Less than 30    pmol/l

>     Estrone   

> 160    74-185    pmol/l

>            

>    

> 24-Jun-08    Lab in

> Belgium       

>    

>     Estradiol   

> 63    less then 30    pg/ml

>     Oestrone   

> 45    10-60    pg/ml

>            

>    

>     LH    2.9

> (Low)    3-18    miu/ml

>     FSH   

> 3(Low)    2-15    miu/ml

>     Testosterone   

> 4679    3,000-10,000   

> nmol/l

>     Testosterone free   

> 184    50-280    pg/ml

>     Bio-testosterone   

> 96.1    %   

>            

>    

> 30-Dec-09    Estradiol   

> 121    95-230    pmol/l

>     FSH   

> 4.4    1.2-18.5    IU/L

>     LH   

> 2.9    2.5-16.3    IU/L

>     Testosterone   

> 19.5    10-38.5    nmol/L

>

> Regarding my treatment of low thyroid and low adrenals, i

> am not doing well because i can not tolerate thyroid meds, i

> am on 5 mg of prednisone, 20 mg cortef and 0.5 grain armour

> (used to be cytomel but recently switched to armour)

>

> I will be waiting for your reply,

> Mark

>

>

>

> >

> > > From: kronmark03 <kronmark03@...>

> > > Subject: Question to Phil/other

> re.diagnosis of hypogonadism

> > >

> > > Date: Saturday, February 13, 2010, 8:23 PM

> > > Dear Phil and other members.

> > >

> > > I am a new member of this forum and have an

> appointment to

> > > see a pituitary specialist in a couple of days. 

> I am

> > > 37 year old male with low testosterone, low LH

> and FSH

> > > levels and I think I have secondary

> > > hypogonadism.   Besides, I have

> > > hypothyroidism and low cortisol and am on armour

> and

> > > cortef.

> > >

> > > My question is regarding a diagnosis of

> hypogonadism.

> > > I would like to ask the doctor to refer me for a

> > > gonadotropin-releasing hormone stimulation test

> and MRI of

> > > pituitary to confirm the diagnosis.   I would

> > > like to know how GRHS stimulation test goes and

> if it a

> > > difficult test to undergo.  Also if there are

> any other

> > > tests you would suggest for diagnosis, please let

> me

> > > know.   

> > >

> > > Thank you in advance,

> > > Mark

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

what are you taking prednosone for? and how long have you been on it? Have you

went off it since you started?

[Guest guest]

DIM is not for lowering E; it is to manipulate the different kinds of E

toward more favorable distribution of same.

I have seen DIM lower E, elevate E, and leave Total Estrogens virtually

unchanged.

Be well!

Regards,

Crisler, DO

Anti-Aging Medicine

The information contained in this message is intended only for the personal

and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, and is protected by

state and federal law. If the reader of this message is not the intended

recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the

intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this

document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or

copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this

communication in error, please notify us immediately, and delete the

original message. We would certainly do the same for you.

[Guest guest]

Still it's worth at try when you can't get your Dr. to give you Arimidex. Dr.

do you know if taking Humatrope .3mgs of .9 IU's per day can make Estradiol

levels go up higher. I seem to be having a problem with higher levels on HGH.

Hard send me a link to what your read about this yesterday.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Crisler, DO <drjohn@...>

> Subject: Re: Question to Phil/other re.diagnosis of

hypogonadism

>

> Date: Monday, February 15, 2010, 12:32 PM

> DIM is not for lowering E; it is to

> manipulate the different kinds of E

> toward more favorable distribution of same.

>

>

>

> I have seen DIM lower E, elevate E, and leave Total

> Estrogens virtually

> unchanged.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Be well!

>

> Regards,

>

>

> Crisler, DO

>

> Anti-Aging Medicine

>

> The information contained in this message is intended only

> for the personal

> and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, and

> is protected by

> state and federal law. If the reader of this message is not

> the intended

> recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the

> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have

> received this

> document in error and that any review, dissemination,

> distribution, or

> copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have

> received this

> communication in error, please notify us immediately, and

> delete the

> original message. We would certainly do the same for you.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Right now my problem in not conversion rate because one can have the proper

conversion ratio and stil feel the effects of being altered 2/16 ratio. Since

going back over my notes and doing everything possible. Since TMG was not doing

crap for me I went back on sam-e at 800 mgs a day and for first time in 6 months

I am pissing like a champ with good volume and force. It will be interesting to

see what the shbg does next blood test see if it comes down now being the liver

is being supported. When on sam-e I did not feel the fluctuation as much from

estrodal as I do not being on it. I'm going to look deeper into methylation

issues by looking at next specific mutations which mthfrr already has been

picked up and methione synthase is suspected

>

> DIM is not for lowering E; it is to manipulate the different kinds of E

> toward more favorable distribution of same.

>

>

>

> I have seen DIM lower E, elevate E, and leave Total Estrogens virtually

> unchanged.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Be well!

>

> Regards,

>

>

> Crisler, DO

>

> Anti-Aging Medicine

>

> The information contained in this message is intended only for the personal

> and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, and is protected by

> state and federal law. If the reader of this message is not the intended

> recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the

> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this

> document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or

> copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this

> communication in error, please notify us immediately, and delete the

> original message. We would certainly do the same for you.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I sent you an Email this crap is driving me nuts I can't tell if my Estradol

levels are up to high or my Thyroid meds are still to strong read and get back

to me.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: hardasnails1973 <hardasnails1973@...>

> Subject: Re: Question to Phil/other re.diagnosis of

hypogonadism

>

> Date: Monday, February 15, 2010, 1:13 PM

> Right now my problem in not

> conversion rate because one can have the proper conversion

> ratio and stil feel the effects of being altered 2/16

> ratio.  Since going back over my notes and doing

> everything possible. Since TMG was not doing crap for me I

> went back on sam-e at 800 mgs a day and for first time in 6

> months I am pissing like a champ with good volume and force.

> It will be interesting to see what the shbg does next blood

> test see if it comes down now being the liver is being

> supported. When on sam-e I did not feel the fluctuation as

> much from estrodal as I do not being on it.  I'm going

> to look deeper into methylation issues by looking at next

> specific mutations which mthfrr already has been picked up

> and methione synthase is suspected 

>

>

> >

> > DIM is not for lowering E; it is to manipulate the

> different kinds of E

> > toward more favorable distribution of same.

> >

> > 

> >

> > I have seen DIM lower E, elevate E, and leave Total

> Estrogens virtually

> > unchanged.

> >

> > 

> >

> > 

> >

> > 

> >

> > Be well!

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> >

> > Crisler, DO

> >

> > Anti-Aging Medicine

> >

> > The information contained in this message is intended

> only for the personal

> > and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above,

> and is protected by

> > state and federal law. If the reader of this message

> is not the intended

> > recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to

> the

> > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you

> have received this

> > document in error and that any review, dissemination,

> distribution, or

> > copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you

> have received this

> > communication in error, please notify us immediately,

> and delete the

> > original message. We would certainly do the same for

> you.

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Phil.

The only reason I am on 5 mg of prednisone (taken in AM) and 20 mg of cortef

(5+5+5+5) every 4 hours is because I am searching for a regimen and combination

of adrenal medications which would allow me to tolerate thyroid medications. I

have been trying to find the right combination for the last 7 years without

results. Very discouraged and do not know what else to do. I have high reverse

T3 but could not tolerate more than 20 mcg of T3. So I switched to armour last

week and am on 0.5 grains. My temperature is stable at 36.2 with minimal

fluctuations. My ferritin is 163 which is not low by any measures. I have been

on Zinc for the last 5-6 years.

I am seeing a pituitary doctor tomorrow, will let you know how it goes.

If you have any other suggestions, please let me know.

Mark

> > >

> > > > From: kronmark03 <kronmark03@>

> > > > Subject: Question to Phil/other

> > re.diagnosis of hypogonadism

> > > >

> > > > Date: Saturday, February 13, 2010, 8:23 PM

> > > > Dear Phil and other members.

> > > >

> > > > I am a new member of this forum and have an

> > appointment to

> > > > see a pituitary specialist in a couple of days. 

> > I am

> > > > 37 year old male with low testosterone, low LH

> > and FSH

> > > > levels and I think I have secondary

> > > > hypogonadism.   Besides, I have

> > > > hypothyroidism and low cortisol and am on armour

> > and

> > > > cortef.

> > > >

> > > > My question is regarding a diagnosis of

> > hypogonadism.

> > > > I would like to ask the doctor to refer me for a

> > > > gonadotropin-releasing hormone stimulation test

> > and MRI of

> > > > pituitary to confirm the diagnosis.   I would

> > > > like to know how GRHS stimulation test goes and

> > if it a

> > > > difficult test to undergo.  Also if there are

> > any other

> > > > tests you would suggest for diagnosis, please let

> > me

> > > > know.   

> > > >

> > > > Thank you in advance,

> > > > Mark

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Yes I do more about this most that feel like your feeling the Cortef us short

lived in there body and need to try Medrol.

It is a better way to go to get supported for your adrenals.

http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=12 & t=15455

Read this about RT3.

http://thyroid-rt3.com/

and this is a good link in this is a FAQ's I helped with full of info about

Adrenals.

http://livingnetwork.co.za/hormones/adrenal-fatigue/

It took me about a yr. to get my Adrenals supported using my Temps avg. and

charting them. In this link you will find links that show you how to do this

forgive me if you all ready know this.

http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=5 & t=24

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: kronmark03 <kronmark03@...>

> Subject: Re: Question to Phil/other re.diagnosis of

hypogonadism

>

> Date: Monday, February 15, 2010, 7:45 PM

> Hi Phil. 

> The only reason I am on 5 mg of prednisone (taken in 

> AM) and 20 mg of cortef (5+5+5+5) every 4 hours is because I

> am searching for a regimen and combination of adrenal

> medications which would allow me to tolerate thyroid

> medications.  I have been trying to find the right

> combination for the last 7 years without results.  Very

> discouraged and do not know what else to do.  I have

> high reverse T3 but could not tolerate more than 20 mcg of

> T3. So I switched to armour last week and am on 0.5 grains.

> My temperature is stable at 36.2 with minimal

> fluctuations.  My ferritin is 163 which is not low by

> any measures.  I have been on Zinc for the last 5-6

> years.

>

> I am seeing a pituitary doctor tomorrow, will let you know

> how it goes.

>

> If you have any other suggestions, please let me know.

>

> Mark

>

>

>

> > > >

> > > > > From: kronmark03 <kronmark03@>

> > > > > Subject: Question to

> Phil/other

> > > re.diagnosis of hypogonadism

> > > > >

> > > > > Date: Saturday, February 13, 2010, 8:23

> PM

> > > > > Dear Phil and other members.

> > > > >

> > > > > I am a new member of this forum and

> have an

> > > appointment to

> > > > > see a pituitary specialist in a couple

> of days. 

> > > I am

> > > > > 37 year old male with low testosterone,

> low LH

> > > and FSH

> > > > > levels and I think I have secondary

> > > > > hypogonadism.   Besides, I have

> > > > > hypothyroidism and low cortisol and am

> on armour

> > > and

> > > > > cortef.

> > > > >

> > > > > My question is regarding a diagnosis

> of

> > > hypogonadism.

> > > > > I would like to ask the doctor to refer

> me for a

> > > > > gonadotropin-releasing hormone

> stimulation test

> > > and MRI of

> > > > > pituitary to confirm the

> diagnosis.   I would

> > > > > like to know how GRHS stimulation test

> goes and

> > > if it a

> > > > > difficult test to undergo.  Also if

> there are

> > > any other

> > > > > tests you would suggest for diagnosis,

> please let

> > > me

> > > > > know.   

> > > > >

> > > > > Thank you in advance,

> > > > > Mark

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > >

> > > > >