Re: Cortisol/DHEA-S test results

[Guest guest]

Yes your in the later stages of Adrenal Insufficiency don't call it Adrenal

Fatigue most Dr.'s don't believe in this.

You look like your near stage 4 in this link.

http://www.chronicfatigue.org/ASI%201%20.html

Before trying to treat this go to Dr. 's forum and read a sticky " Hormones

101 " by chilln you might be able to fix this with Preg. cream.

http://www.musclechatroom.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?2-All-Things-Male

If not let me know what you want to try I can try to help.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Matt <mattjon332@...>

> Subject: Cortisol/DHEA-S test results

>

> Date: Thursday, January 20, 2011, 1:54 PM

> Looks like 3 (slightly) abnormal

> cortisol results, and 1 abnormal DHEA-S

> result:

>

> *Cortisol:*

> (All units ng/ml * denotes abnormal)

> *8AM  3.42 (3.5-6.3)

> Noon 1.63 (1.4-2.8)

> 4PM  1.07 (0.8-2.4)

> *8PM  0.57 (0.6-1.6)

> Midnight 0.83 (0.3-1.2)

> *4AM  1.79 (0.3-1.7)

>

> *DHEA-S:*

> (All units ng/ml * denotes abnormal)

> *8AM  2.6 (2.8-12.7)

> 8PM  3.1 (2.7-9.0)

> Midnight 5.9 (1.8-8.1)

>

> Is there someone who can help me translate this, does this

> suffice to say

> anything about adrenal fatigue or ?

>

> BR//Matt

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Phil. I will read up on the links you sent.

Wow, later stages...sounds bad.

You mentioned Pregnalone cream, how about oral pregnalone and isocort? Are

those also viable methods?

As I was beginning to suspect, I am guessing this is most likely my cause of

low T then right?

BR//Matt

On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 1:19 PM, philip georgian <pmgamer18@...>wrote:

>

>

> Yes your in the later stages of Adrenal Insufficiency don't call it Adrenal

> Fatigue most Dr.'s don't believe in this.

> You look like your near stage 4 in this link.

> http://www.chronicfatigue.org/ASI%201%20.html

> Before trying to treat this go to Dr. 's forum and read a sticky

> " Hormones 101 " by chilln you might be able to fix this with Preg. cream.

>

> http://www.musclechatroom.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?2-All-Things-Male

>

> If not let me know what you want to try I can try to help.

>

> Co-Moderator

> Phil

>

>

>

> > From: Matt <mattjon332@... <mattjon332%40gmail.com>>

> > Subject: Cortisol/DHEA-S test results

> > < %40>

> > Date: Thursday, January 20, 2011, 1:54 PM

>

> > Looks like 3 (slightly) abnormal

> > cortisol results, and 1 abnormal DHEA-S

> > result:

> >

> > *Cortisol:*

> > (All units ng/ml * denotes abnormal)

> > *8AM 3.42 (3.5-6.3)

> > Noon 1.63 (1.4-2.8)

> > 4PM 1.07 (0.8-2.4)

> > *8PM 0.57 (0.6-1.6)

> > Midnight 0.83 (0.3-1.2)

> > *4AM 1.79 (0.3-1.7)

> >

> > *DHEA-S:*

> > (All units ng/ml * denotes abnormal)

> > *8AM 2.6 (2.8-12.7)

> > 8PM 3.1 (2.7-9.0)

> > Midnight 5.9 (1.8-8.1)

> >

> > Is there someone who can help me translate this, does this

> > suffice to say

> > anything about adrenal fatigue or ?

> >

> > BR//Matt

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Oral pregnalone for most of use turns into Estraidol cream is better you can buy

it on the web Life-Flo makes it 15 mgs per pump.

You might not need Isocort or DHEA if you Try Preg. cream you need to read

Hormones 101 over and over even some of the post about Preg. You can click on

chilln name and read all of his posts.

I am on Preg. cream stared back on it yesterday you do need to test this before

you start test both Preg. and Prog.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> >

> > > From: Matt <mattjon332@...

> <mattjon332%40gmail.com>>

> > > Subject: Cortisol/DHEA-S test

> results

> > >

> < %40>

> > > Date: Thursday, January 20, 2011, 1:54 PM

> >

> > > Looks like 3 (slightly) abnormal

> > > cortisol results, and 1 abnormal DHEA-S

> > > result:

> > >

> > > *Cortisol:*

> > > (All units ng/ml * denotes abnormal)

> > > *8AM  3.42 (3.5-6.3)

> > > Noon 1.63 (1.4-2.8)

> > > 4PM  1.07 (0.8-2.4)

> > > *8PM  0.57 (0.6-1.6)

> > > Midnight 0.83 (0.3-1.2)

> > > *4AM  1.79 (0.3-1.7)

> > >

> > > *DHEA-S:*

> > > (All units ng/ml * denotes abnormal)

> > > *8AM  2.6 (2.8-12.7)

> > > 8PM  3.1 (2.7-9.0)

> > > Midnight 5.9 (1.8-8.1)

> > >

> > > Is there someone who can help me translate this,

> does this

> > > suffice to say

> > > anything about adrenal fatigue or ?

> > >

> > > BR//Matt

> > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Matt, how do you feel in the morning? Your level is BELOW the lab range,

which means you don't have much cortisol at all when you wake up. Then you

don't even catch up throughout the day.

My cortisol was below range upon waking as well (I was at least stage 4 as

well) and I felt terrible and even just a little desiccated thyroid made me

so shaky and jittery. I didn't feel as low cortisol really late in the day,

but that was it and the rest of the time I had low cortisol symptoms.

Do you have low cortisol symptoms?

Yes, Isocort or HC give you cortisol to replace deficient production. I

started with Isocort, which stopped me feeling so bad, nauseous and shaky.

Then I could take thyroid hormones and not get sick from them. I don't know

what pregnenolone cream would do as I have no experience with it (yet), but

your adrenals would still have to convert it to cortisol.

It's been my understanding that the stress of adrenal insufficiency can dive

down testosterone production, too.

-Nigel

On 20 January 2011 12:54, Matt <mattjon332@...> wrote:

>

>

> Looks like 3 (slightly) abnormal cortisol results, and 1 abnormal DHEA-S

> result:

>

> *Cortisol:*

> (All units ng/ml * denotes abnormal)

> *8AM 3.42 (3.5-6.3)

> Noon 1.63 (1.4-2.8)

> 4PM 1.07 (0.8-2.4)

> *8PM 0.57 (0.6-1.6)

> Midnight 0.83 (0.3-1.2)

> *4AM 1.79 (0.3-1.7)

>

> *DHEA-S:*

> (All units ng/ml * denotes abnormal)

> *8AM 2.6 (2.8-12.7)

> 8PM 3.1 (2.7-9.0)

> Midnight 5.9 (1.8-8.1)

>

> Is there someone who can help me translate this, does this suffice to say

> anything about adrenal fatigue or ?

>

> BR//Matt

>

[Guest guest]

Hey Nigel,

I am a slow starter in the morning, many times I want to sleep in. I

workout in the mornings though, but its usually 1-1.5hrs after waking,

and lately I have been using 5 hr energy shots to get me moving a little

faster. Over the course of the year I seem to have went from being able

to get to work by 7:00 or 7:30 to now 8:30 seems to be the earliest,

even though I wake at 5am. Of course my life schedule has changed a

bit, I am working out more often for example. I can seemingly stay up

all night, I used to work nights for like 5 years in a row, I always

just thought this was the reason but I think this is another symptom.

S;dp my sleep doesn't seem to be as restful as it should, and sometimes

I feel worse trying to sleep in longer then if I just get up.

For the most part I feel fine anytime I am working out and I feel fit

and strong during activity, but throughout the day sometimes I feel a

bit tired but its manageable. One exception however is I am very tired

around 4-5pm, not so much physically but mentally. I want to take a nap

and I can fall asleep for 20-30min at a blink of an eye if I lay down at

that time. I have had very rarely times when I get light headed, stand

up and get that beginning of a black out feeling, but I have never

actually blacked out or anything. Maybe its been so long I don't know

what feeling like normal is, but I have had some times when I

thought....this isn't right, and this seems more serious then I think.

I have a stressful job though, so over the years I just sortuf thought

this was normal.

I have had trouble losing weight, I don't know if this is a adrenal

symptom or not, but I can lose weight but I seem to need to go a lot

more extreme to do so. Most guys seem to be able to lose weight on

around 2000 calories and moderate exercise, I seem to need 1500 calories

and intense exercise. This could be a side effect of my low T, or maybe

my thyroid is not working properly.

Some good news, I found a Dr in my area yesterday that seems to be in

alignment with most of my thoughts on this issue, including low T. We

actually talked over the phone for 20 minutes, that seems to be a rarity

these days. He believes starting at the adrenal hormones and working

your way down, where most doctors just want to give you T and call it

good. He is also not afraid to run labs, he is very complete with the

labs, I think your first labs are essentially every blood lab they can

do (something like 13 vials). This is refreshing because the Dr that

diagnosed me as secondary would not run additional tests like E2, more

complete thyroid, or anything. I have an appt on Monday, I am really

looking forward to it.

I really think that once my adrenals are resolved my T issue will clear

itself, my LH was the bottom of the range but my T was 250-260. I can't

wait to get back to normal.

BR//Matt

On 1/20/2011 10:14 PM, Nigel wrote:

>

> Matt, how do you feel in the morning? Your level is BELOW the lab range,

> which means you don't have much cortisol at all when you wake up. Then you

> don't even catch up throughout the day.

>

> My cortisol was below range upon waking as well (I was at least stage 4 as

> well) and I felt terrible and even just a little desiccated thyroid

> made me

> so shaky and jittery. I didn't feel as low cortisol really late in the

> day,

> but that was it and the rest of the time I had low cortisol symptoms.

>

> Do you have low cortisol symptoms?

>

> Yes, Isocort or HC give you cortisol to replace deficient production. I

> started with Isocort, which stopped me feeling so bad, nauseous and shaky.

> Then I could take thyroid hormones and not get sick from them. I don't

> know

> what pregnenolone cream would do as I have no experience with it

> (yet), but

> your adrenals would still have to convert it to cortisol.

>

> It's been my understanding that the stress of adrenal insufficiency

> can dive

> down testosterone production, too.

>

> -Nigel

>

> On 20 January 2011 12:54, Matt <mattjon332@...

> <mailto:mattjon332%40gmail.com>> wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > Looks like 3 (slightly) abnormal cortisol results, and 1 abnormal DHEA-S

> > result:

> >

> > *Cortisol:*

> > (All units ng/ml * denotes abnormal)

> > *8AM 3.42 (3.5-6.3)

> > Noon 1.63 (1.4-2.8)

> > 4PM 1.07 (0.8-2.4)

> > *8PM 0.57 (0.6-1.6)

> > Midnight 0.83 (0.3-1.2)

> > *4AM 1.79 (0.3-1.7)

> >

> > *DHEA-S:*

> > (All units ng/ml * denotes abnormal)

> > *8AM 2.6 (2.8-12.7)

> > 8PM 3.1 (2.7-9.0)

> > Midnight 5.9 (1.8-8.1)

> >

> > Is there someone who can help me translate this, does this suffice

> to say

> > anything about adrenal fatigue or ?

> >

> > BR//Matt

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

Nigel,

When you said " I don't know

what pregnenolone cream would do as I have no experience with it (yet), but

your adrenals would still have to convert it to cortisol. "

From what I have been reading going on Preg. cream the Preg. converts into Prog.

then the Prog. into DHT then the DHT into Cortisol.

It's not from the Adrenals this is what I am told that is way I am trying Preg.

cream my pituitary does not tell my Adrenals to make enough Cortisol.

But adding Preg. cream can make your Cortisol levels go up. Some of the guys

trying this were doing to high a dose of Preg. making so much Cortisol they were

shutting down there ACTH.

I am not sure about all this but it is said at night if your Cortisol levels are

to low your body will convert your Testosterone into Estraidol faster.

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> >

> >

> > Looks like 3 (slightly) abnormal cortisol results, and

> 1 abnormal DHEA-S

> > result:

> >

> > *Cortisol:*

> > (All units ng/ml * denotes abnormal)

> > *8AM 3.42 (3.5-6.3)

> > Noon 1.63 (1.4-2.8)

> > 4PM 1.07 (0.8-2.4)

> > *8PM 0.57 (0.6-1.6)

> > Midnight 0.83 (0.3-1.2)

> > *4AM 1.79 (0.3-1.7)

> >

> > *DHEA-S:*

> > (All units ng/ml * denotes abnormal)

> > *8AM 2.6 (2.8-12.7)

> > 8PM 3.1 (2.7-9.0)

> > Midnight 5.9 (1.8-8.1)

> >

> > Is there someone who can help me translate this, does

> this suffice to say

> > anything about adrenal fatigue or ?

> >

> > BR//Matt

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Matt,

Low T with low LH and FSH if your E2 levels were not to high look like a

pituitary problem. If this is the case what came first the chicken or the egg.

Low T from being Secondary will over work the crap out of your Adrenals and the

Pituitary problem if you have one will take down your cortisol levels.

Having low T is very stress full on your Adrenals and being Secondary your

Pituitary might not be telling your Adrenals to make enough Cortisol.

You need to go over this with this great Dr. you talked to get an ACTH Stim.

test down to figure out if your Primary or Secondary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACTH_stimulation_test

Here is a good link to a FAQ's about Adrenals a must read.

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/faq/

Co-Moderator

Phil

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > Looks like 3 (slightly) abnormal cortisol

> results, and 1 abnormal DHEA-S

> > > result:

> > >

> > > *Cortisol:*

> > > (All units ng/ml * denotes abnormal)

> > > *8AM 3.42 (3.5-6.3)

> > > Noon 1.63 (1.4-2.8)

> > > 4PM 1.07 (0.8-2.4)

> > > *8PM 0.57 (0.6-1.6)

> > > Midnight 0.83 (0.3-1.2)

> > > *4AM 1.79 (0.3-1.7)

> > >

> > > *DHEA-S:*

> > > (All units ng/ml * denotes abnormal)

> > > *8AM 2.6 (2.8-12.7)

> > > 8PM 3.1 (2.7-9.0)

> > > Midnight 5.9 (1.8-8.1)

> > >

> > > Is there someone who can help me translate this,

> does this suffice

> > to say

> > > anything about adrenal fatigue or ?

> > >

> > > BR//Matt

> > >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Phil. Do you have a link to where chilln brought this up about it

converting to cortisol outside of the adrenals? I briefly looked at Dr

's forum and found, well, too many posts about pregnenolone to find it.

haha

-Nigel

On 21 January 2011 10:15, philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

>

>

> Nigel,

>

> When you said " I don't know

>

> what pregnenolone cream would do as I have no experience with it (yet), but

> your adrenals would still have to convert it to cortisol. "

>

> From what I have been reading going on Preg. cream the Preg. converts into

> Prog. then the Prog. into DHT then the DHT into Cortisol.

>

> It's not from the Adrenals this is what I am told that is way I am trying

> Preg. cream my pituitary does not tell my Adrenals to make enough Cortisol.

>

> But adding Preg. cream can make your Cortisol levels go up. Some of the

> guys trying this were doing to high a dose of Preg. making so much Cortisol

> they were shutting down there ACTH.

>

> I am not sure about all this but it is said at night if your Cortisol

> levels are to low your body will convert your Testosterone into Estraidol

> faster.

>

> Co-Moderator

> Phil

>

[Guest guest]

Matt, that's good the doctor is willing to do additional testing and look

into things. You seem to have symptoms of multiple things going on from the

blacking out, which seems adrenal to the fatigue in the middle of the day

and weight loss issue, which can be related to thyroid and sex hormone

imbalances.

If you do the STIM that Phil suggests make sure they also run a baseline

ACTH level with that first cortisol draw before they give you the injection.

Your own level of ACTH helps determine if you're secondary with the

adrenals. And if you didn't know already, you really need to avoid food,

caffeine and nicotine that morning and get to the lab early to do the

adrenal testing as consuming all those things can stimulate the adrenals to

produce more and mask what's really going on.

-Nigel

On 21 January 2011 06:08, Matt <mattjon332@...> wrote:

> Hey Nigel,

>

> I am a slow starter in the morning, many times I want to sleep in. I

> workout in the mornings though, but its usually 1-1.5hrs after waking, and

> lately I have been using 5 hr energy shots to get me moving a little

> faster. Over the course of the year I seem to have went from being able to

> get to work by 7:00 or 7:30 to now 8:30 seems to be the earliest, even

> though I wake at 5am. Of course my life schedule has changed a bit, I am

> working out more often for example. I can seemingly stay up all night, I

> used to work nights for like 5 years in a row, I always just thought this

> was the reason but I think this is another symptom. S;dp my sleep doesn't

> seem to be as restful as it should, and sometimes I feel worse trying to

> sleep in longer then if I just get up.

>

> For the most part I feel fine anytime I am working out and I feel fit and

> strong during activity, but throughout the day sometimes I feel a bit tired

> but its manageable. One exception however is I am very tired around 4-5pm,

> not so much physically but mentally. I want to take a nap and I can fall

> asleep for 20-30min at a blink of an eye if I lay down at that time. I have

> had very rarely times when I get light headed, stand up and get that

> beginning of a black out feeling, but I have never actually blacked out or

> anything. Maybe its been so long I don't know what feeling like normal is,

> but I have had some times when I thought....this isn't right, and this seems

> more serious then I think. I have a stressful job though, so over the years

> I just sortuf thought this was normal.

>

> I have had trouble losing weight, I don't know if this is a adrenal symptom

> or not, but I can lose weight but I seem to need to go a lot more extreme to

> do so. Most guys seem to be able to lose weight on around 2000 calories and

> moderate exercise, I seem to need 1500 calories and intense exercise. This

> could be a side effect of my low T, or maybe my thyroid is not working

> properly.

>

> Some good news, I found a Dr in my area yesterday that seems to be in

> alignment with most of my thoughts on this issue, including low T. We

> actually talked over the phone for 20 minutes, that seems to be a rarity

> these days. He believes starting at the adrenal hormones and working your

> way down, where most doctors just want to give you T and call it good. He

> is also not afraid to run labs, he is very complete with the labs, I think

> your first labs are essentially every blood lab they can do (something like

> 13 vials). This is refreshing because the Dr that diagnosed me as secondary

> would not run additional tests like E2, more complete thyroid, or anything.

> I have an appt on Monday, I am really looking forward to it.

>

> I really think that once my adrenals are resolved my T issue will clear

> itself, my LH was the bottom of the range but my T was 250-260. I can't

> wait to get back to normal.

>

> BR//Matt

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I will try and cut and paste in some posts.

====================================================

Originally Posted by diesiel

My main reason for asking this question is i have alot of symptoms of adrenal

fatigue, so i'm not producing enough cortisol to satisfy my body. Pregnenolone

is where it all begins and i suspect i have a lack of it. LH contributes to

manufacture of pregnenolone and that too is quite low, but then i ponder why?

All this is just making me more confused instead of clarifying. I'm beginning to

respect doctors more and more.

----------------------------------------------------

Chilln says.

Preg goes too low because the rate of synthesis of preg (regulated by LH and

ACTH) is lower than the rate of consumption of cortisol and / or testosterone,

so all of the available preg is " rushed " to produce cortisol and / or

testosterone, leaving almost no preg remaining as preg.

Why doesn't LH and ACTH just rise to allow increased levels of preg in order to

allow huge doses of cortisol and / or testosterone (similar to our youthful

levels) ?

Answer = genetic aging. Programmed death. Welcome to the cruel world we live in.

You are going to die and your genes are programmed to guarantee it will happen.

===================================================

Re: Quick questions about cortisol, reverse T3 & testosterone

Originally Posted by Electric Eye

If someone is low on free cortisol and this is possibly causing their body to

make too much reverse T3, then can this high reverse T3 cancel out the effect of

regular T3 even when their free T3 blood level appears normal?

----------------------------------------------------

Chilln says.

Definitely yes.

--------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by Electric Eye

If someone is low on free cortisol and needs to boost their cortisol in order to

keep their testosterone regulated and stop it from spilling over into E2, then

what happens in the evening and night time when cortisol is supposed to go low

anyway? What keeps testosterone regulated then?

Depends on which form of testosterone supplementation you're on.

----------------------------------------------------

Chilln says.

If you're using injected testosterone esters (eg: T cypionate), then your cells

will synthesize E2 to defend themselves from excessive T and DHT metabolism.

Provided your thyroid hormone T4 levels are relatively high, then your cells

will swap out the E2 for cortisol as soon as cortisol becomes available in the

morning.

###

If you're using transdermal testosterone, then your T levels will be lowest

overnight so your cells will synthesize very little E2 to defend themselves from

excessive T and DHT metabolism.

====================================================

Re: Tanked sex drive from preg....How to raise DHT?

Originally Posted by loopy107

I recently tried pregnanolone capsules and feel like I killed my sex drive. Not

sure if I drove up my prog and lowered DHT.

----------------------------------------------------

Chilln said.

and

----------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by loopy107

This is killing me cause now I wish I never touched preg.

----------------------------------------------------

Chilln said.

For the benefit of all of our members, loopy107 supplemented with too much oral

pregnenolone.

His case is yet another reason why we do not recommend oral pregnenolone.

This had a major effect on the hormones in his cortisol-production-line, sending

his cortisol too high, which actually resulted in excessive ACTH suppression.

The excessive ACTH suppression then sent all of the hormones in his

cortisol-production-line (eg: preg, prog, cortisol) into a nose-dive, which

drove up his DHT metabolism in his prostate.

The excessive DHT metabolism in his prostate then inflamed his prostate, causing

stop-start urination and nocturnal wake ups.

http://musclechatroom.com/forum/show...0 & postcount=17

====================================================

Re: Lab values and treatment to expect?

Originally Posted by Muscleguy

I need to reduce rt3 by increasing cortisol through hc

----------------------------------------------------

Chilln says.

Excess cortisol is the first step in a sequence of processes which eventually

leads to sleepiniess. What makes us sleepy is too low levels of

neurotransmitters. Too low levels of pregnenolone results in downregulation of

neurotransmitters. Too low levels of preg are caused by ACTH suppression. ACTH

auppression is caused by too high serum cortisol.

The too high serum cortisol couuld be due to too high a dose of HC, or due to a

lack of thyroid hormone T4.

###

I recommend transdermal pregnenolone over HC for the following reasons:

1) Transdermal preg is absorbed much slower than HC, so serum cortisol peaks are

lower than they are when supplementing with HC.

2) If the preg doesn't synthesize into sufficient cortisol (spacey feelings,

tingly face) then you know immediately that your thyroid hormone T4 is too low,

so your adrenal enzymes are in " snooze " mode and need to be invigorated by more

T4.

3) If you supplement with a dose of HC which causes brain fade / sleepiness,

then you don't know if the symtpoms are due to:

.....a) your dose was too high,

.....or:

..... your dose was optimal but your T4 was too low so your cells didn't absorb

the cortisol, so the cortisol stayed in serum (keeping serum levels high).

So it takes a lot more trial and error to work out whether the HC dose was too

low, or your thyroid hormone T4 is too low.

----------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by Muscleguy

and by fixing enzymatic function nutritionally.

----------------------------------------------------

Chilln says.

Any nutritional supps which boost your thryoid hormone T4 production will

achieve this, here are the most reliable examples:

a) iodone / iodide

selenium

c) Vit D3

If by supplementing with these " dietary supps " you're overdriving the body

systems which process these supps, in order to force a boost in T4 production,

then this method of boosting your t4 is actually less " healthy " than if you were

to supplement with exogenous T4.

If by supplementing with these " dietary supps " you're only restoring the levels

of these supps in your body to their youthful levels, in order to restore normal

T4 production, then this method of boosting your T4 is indeed optimum.

###

Note that if as a young man your thyroid hormones were optimum while you were

eating the (approx) same foods you eat today, then supplementing with any

nutritional supps to force an increase in T4 production will be using the

" overdrive " effect, and it's less healthy than exogenous hormone

supplementation.

----------------------------------------------------

See if reading this link helps.

http://www.musclechatroom.com/forum/showthread.php?13526-Just-me-rambling-on-abo\

ut-cortisol & p=86299#post86299

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> >

> >

> > Nigel,

> >

> > When you said " I don't know

> >

> > what pregnenolone cream would do as I have no

> experience with it (yet), but

> > your adrenals would still have to convert it to

> cortisol. "

> >

> > From what I have been reading going on Preg. cream the

> Preg. converts into

> > Prog. then the Prog. into DHT then the DHT into

> Cortisol.

> >

> > It's not from the Adrenals this is what I am told that

> is way I am trying

> > Preg. cream my pituitary does not tell my Adrenals to

> make enough Cortisol.

> >

> > But adding Preg. cream can make your Cortisol levels

> go up. Some of the

> > guys trying this were doing to high a dose of Preg.

> making so much Cortisol

> > they were shutting down there ACTH.

> >

> > I am not sure about all this but it is said at night

> if your Cortisol

> > levels are to low your body will convert your

> Testosterone into Estraidol

> > faster.

> >

> > Co-Moderator

> > Phil

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Phil,

This is my original tests that diagnosed me as secondary Low T back in

March-May time frame last year I believe (I also had MRI for pituitary and

it was fine):

Thyroid TSH 3.340 uIU/mL (range 0.450-4.500, Dr noted ideal is under 2.0)

DHEA-Sulfate 218.6 ug/dL (160-449 range, Dr noted 250+ was ideal)

Testosterone, Serum 263 L ng/dL (280-800 range, should be over 300)

Free Testosterone(Direct) 8.0L pq/mL (8.7-25.1)

My second bloodwork was a little more comprehensive:

T4, Free, Direct 1.41 ng/dL (range 0.82-1.77)

Testosterone, Serum 257 L ng/dL

LH 2.8 mIU/mL (1.7-8.6 range)

FSH 6.4 mIU/mL (1.5-12.4 range)

Prolactin 5.5 ng/mL (4.0-15.2 range)

At that point I tried to get E2 and more complete thyroid testing done but

that Dr said it would be a waste.

I am hoping its just an adrenal issue, and once that is resolved my other

hormones will come back to normal. It sounds like I will eventually get lab

results of everything with this new Dr.

I am going to get a list of things to talk with the Dr about, I will bring

up this ACTH Stim test, but its looking like I am most likely primary on my

adrenals if I understand?

BR//Matt

On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 11:32 AM, philip georgian <pmgamer18@...>wrote:

>

>

> Matt,

>

> Low T with low LH and FSH if your E2 levels were not to high look like a

> pituitary problem. If this is the case what came first the chicken or the

> egg. Low T from being Secondary will over work the crap out of your Adrenals

> and the Pituitary problem if you have one will take down your cortisol

> levels.

>

> Having low T is very stress full on your Adrenals and being Secondary your

> Pituitary might not be telling your Adrenals to make enough Cortisol.

>

> You need to go over this with this great Dr. you talked to get an ACTH

> Stim. test down to figure out if your Primary or Secondary.

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACTH_stimulation_test

> Here is a good link to a FAQ's about Adrenals a must read.

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/faq/

>

> Co-Moderator

> Phil

>

> -

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Testing E2 is not a waste if your Total T, LH and FSH are low you need to know

if E2 is below 30 to tell if your Secondary. You can do an MRI on the pituitary

to rule out a tumor but still have a problem with it. If TT is low with Low LH

and E2 is high the high E2 will make the TT low. Your brain sees high E2 as if

it is T and slows down sending the LH message making TT low. As you get E2 down

and retest this TT can up up some 200 to 300 points. So your TT can go up into

the upper 500's and your Free T will go to the top of the range. High levels of

E2 make SHBG go high and this binds up Free T. Getting E2 down the brain sees

your T levels are low and sends more LH to your Testis they make more TT, SHBG

goes down and un binds TT making Free T go up.

Bottom line here is don't go on TRT until you know whats wrong and that it can't

be fixed.

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> >

> >

> > Matt,

> >

> > Low T with low LH and FSH if your E2 levels were not

> to high look like a

> > pituitary problem. If this is the case what came first

> the chicken or the

> > egg. Low T from being Secondary will over work the

> crap out of your Adrenals

> > and the Pituitary problem if you have one will take

> down your cortisol

> > levels.

> >

> > Having low T is very stress full on your Adrenals and

> being Secondary your

> > Pituitary might not be telling your Adrenals to make

> enough Cortisol.

> >

> > You need to go over this with this great Dr. you

> talked to get an ACTH

> > Stim. test down to figure out if your Primary or

> Secondary.

> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACTH_stimulation_test

> > Here is a good link to a FAQ's about Adrenals a must

> read.

> > http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/faq/

> >

> > Co-Moderator

> > Phil

> >

> > -

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Phil, yeah that was the old doctor that said E2 was waste, I brought

in about 10 pages to him with links and information and he entertained them

but would not listen. The new doctor will said he will test everything.

Let's see what I find out Monday, and then what the labs look like once I

get the results. I REALLY hope its just my adrenals needing some support to

recover.

Thanks again.

BR//Matt

On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 1:49 PM, philip georgian <pmgamer18@...>wrote:

>

>

> Testing E2 is not a waste if your Total T, LH and FSH are low you need to

> know if E2 is below 30 to tell if your Secondary. You can do an MRI on the

> pituitary to rule out a tumor but still have a problem with it. If TT is low

> with Low LH and E2 is high the high E2 will make the TT low. Your brain sees

> high E2 as if it is T and slows down sending the LH message making TT low.

> As you get E2 down and retest this TT can up up some 200 to 300 points. So

> your TT can go up into the upper 500's and your Free T will go to the top of

> the range. High levels of E2 make SHBG go high and this binds up Free T.

> Getting E2 down the brain sees your T levels are low and sends more LH to

> your Testis they make more TT, SHBG goes down and un binds TT making Free T

> go up.

>

> Bottom line here is don't go on TRT until you know whats wrong and that it

> can't be fixed.

> Co-Moderator

> Phil

>

>

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > Matt,

> > >

> > > Low T with low LH and FSH if your E2 levels were not

> > to high look like a

> > > pituitary problem. If this is the case what came first

> > the chicken or the

> > > egg. Low T from being Secondary will over work the

> > crap out of your Adrenals

> > > and the Pituitary problem if you have one will take

> > down your cortisol

> > > levels.

> > >

> > > Having low T is very stress full on your Adrenals and

> > being Secondary your

> > > Pituitary might not be telling your Adrenals to make

> > enough Cortisol.

> > >

> > > You need to go over this with this great Dr. you

> > talked to get an ACTH

> > > Stim. test down to figure out if your Primary or

> > Secondary.

> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACTH_stimulation_test

> > > Here is a good link to a FAQ's about Adrenals a must

> > read.

> > > http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/faq/

> > >

> > > Co-Moderator

> > > Phil

> > >

> > > -

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I hope so too being Seconday and doing TRT is not fun.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Matt,

> > > >

> > > > Low T with low LH and FSH if your E2 levels

> were not

> > > to high look like a

> > > > pituitary problem. If this is the case what

> came first

> > > the chicken or the

> > > > egg. Low T from being Secondary will over

> work the

> > > crap out of your Adrenals

> > > > and the Pituitary problem if you have one

> will take

> > > down your cortisol

> > > > levels.

> > > >

> > > > Having low T is very stress full on your

> Adrenals and

> > > being Secondary your

> > > > Pituitary might not be telling your Adrenals

> to make

> > > enough Cortisol.

> > > >

> > > > You need to go over this with this great Dr.

> you

> > > talked to get an ACTH

> > > > Stim. test down to figure out if your

> Primary or

> > > Secondary.

> > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACTH_stimulation_test

> > > > Here is a good link to a FAQ's about

> Adrenals a must

> > > read.

> > > > http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/faq/

> > > >

> > > > Co-Moderator

> > > > Phil

> > > >

> > > > -

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

The baseline ACTH and cortisol and even the STIM are good to rule out

secondary adrenal insufficiency. From what I understand, an okay MRI doesn't

rule out pituitary problems.

-Nigel

On 21 January 2011 13:23, Matt <mattjon332@...> wrote:

>

>

> I am going to get a list of things to talk with the Dr about, I will bring

> up this ACTH Stim test, but its looking like I am most likely primary on my

> adrenals if I understand?

>

> BR//Matt

>

[Guest guest]

Nigel,

Thanks for the info, I think I may also have more then one or two

hormones out of balance atm, but I am really hoping its the adrenal

issues that are causing this. I think with a complete blood workup the

Dr will be able to get a good idea of what is going on.

I am hoping the blood work also checks nutrient deficiencies, it is

supposed to be comprehensive but I don't know if that means nutrients.

I have read at least a few stories where guys went from 200's in total T

to the 600 range because they found they were lacking a specific

nutrient. If the blood work does not do this, I will probably try to

get this done through Spectracell (http://www.spectracell.com/mnt/ ) on

my own.

Guys,

I just charted out my cortisol and DHEA-S results compared to the normal

reference range LOW and HIGH, it doesn't seem to me that I am really

that far out of the ranges? I realize that even if I am in the range it

may not mean its optimal, but could this not be as big a deal we first

thought?

Cortisol

DHEA-S

BR//Matt

On 1/21/2011 11:46 AM, Nigel wrote:

>

> Matt, that's good the doctor is willing to do additional testing and look

> into things. You seem to have symptoms of multiple things going on

> from the

> blacking out, which seems adrenal to the fatigue in the middle of the day

> and weight loss issue, which can be related to thyroid and sex hormone

> imbalances.

>

> If you do the STIM that Phil suggests make sure they also run a baseline

> ACTH level with that first cortisol draw before they give you the

> injection.

> Your own level of ACTH helps determine if you're secondary with the

> adrenals. And if you didn't know already, you really need to avoid food,

> caffeine and nicotine that morning and get to the lab early to do the

> adrenal testing as consuming all those things can stimulate the

> adrenals to

> produce more and mask what's really going on.

>

> -Nigel

>

> On 21 January 2011 06:08, Matt <mattjon332@...

> <mailto:mattjon332%40gmail.com>> wrote:

>

> > Hey Nigel,

> >

> > I am a slow starter in the morning, many times I want to sleep in. I

> > workout in the mornings though, but its usually 1-1.5hrs after

> waking, and

> > lately I have been using 5 hr energy shots to get me moving a little

> > faster. Over the course of the year I seem to have went from being

> able to

> > get to work by 7:00 or 7:30 to now 8:30 seems to be the earliest, even

> > though I wake at 5am. Of course my life schedule has changed a bit, I am

> > working out more often for example. I can seemingly stay up all night, I

> > used to work nights for like 5 years in a row, I always just thought

> this

> > was the reason but I think this is another symptom. S;dp my sleep

> doesn't

> > seem to be as restful as it should, and sometimes I feel worse trying to

> > sleep in longer then if I just get up.

> >

> > For the most part I feel fine anytime I am working out and I feel

> fit and

> > strong during activity, but throughout the day sometimes I feel a

> bit tired

> > but its manageable. One exception however is I am very tired around

> 4-5pm,

> > not so much physically but mentally. I want to take a nap and I can fall

> > asleep for 20-30min at a blink of an eye if I lay down at that time.

> I have

> > had very rarely times when I get light headed, stand up and get that

> > beginning of a black out feeling, but I have never actually blacked

> out or

> > anything. Maybe its been so long I don't know what feeling like

> normal is,

> > but I have had some times when I thought....this isn't right, and

> this seems

> > more serious then I think. I have a stressful job though, so over

> the years

> > I just sortuf thought this was normal.

> >

> > I have had trouble losing weight, I don't know if this is a adrenal

> symptom

> > or not, but I can lose weight but I seem to need to go a lot more

> extreme to

> > do so. Most guys seem to be able to lose weight on around 2000

> calories and

> > moderate exercise, I seem to need 1500 calories and intense

> exercise. This

> > could be a side effect of my low T, or maybe my thyroid is not working

> > properly.

> >

> > Some good news, I found a Dr in my area yesterday that seems to be in

> > alignment with most of my thoughts on this issue, including low T. We

> > actually talked over the phone for 20 minutes, that seems to be a rarity

> > these days. He believes starting at the adrenal hormones and working

> your

> > way down, where most doctors just want to give you T and call it

> good. He

> > is also not afraid to run labs, he is very complete with the labs, I

> think

> > your first labs are essentially every blood lab they can do

> (something like

> > 13 vials). This is refreshing because the Dr that diagnosed me as

> secondary

> > would not run additional tests like E2, more complete thyroid, or

> anything.

> > I have an appt on Monday, I am really looking forward to it.

> >

> > I really think that once my adrenals are resolved my T issue will clear

> > itself, my LH was the bottom of the range but my T was 250-260. I can't

> > wait to get back to normal.

> >

> > BR//Matt

> >

> >

> >

>

>