Re: Question for those knowledgeable about thyroid issues.

[Guest guest]

Here is a good link from a site I use to mod at add to them labs Total T3 and

T4.

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/recommended-labwork/

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...>

> Subject: Question for those knowledgeable about thyroid issues.

>

> Date: Tuesday, June 15, 2010, 1:45 PM

> I am supposed to go to the endo I was

> recommended on Monday.

> While I do not hold out much hope for good on the T

> front,......especially after speaking to a local member hear

> via e-mail, I would like to know what I should look for in

> terms of proper thyroid testing.

>

> I have family history of thyroid issues on both sides of

> the family BTW.

> My grandmother was hypothyroid and had to take synthroid

> for many years before she passed away. My biological father

> was the other way around and was hyper,.....took him a long

> time to be diagnosed.

> Taken from another site for hyper:

>

> Symptoms

> •Difficulty concentrating *

> •Fatigue *

> •Frequent bowel movements *

> •Goiter (visibly enlarged thyroid gland) or thyroid

> nodules ?

> •Heat intolerance *

> •Increased appetite

> •Increased sweating *

> •Irregular menstrual periods in women

> •Nervousness *

> •Restlessness *

> •Weight loss (rarely, weight gain)

> Other symptoms that can occur with this disease:

>

> •Breast development in men *

> •Clammy skin *

> •Diarrhea *

> •Hair loss

> •Hand tremor *(at times)

> •Weakness *

> •High blood pressure *

> •Itching - overall

> •Lack of menstrual periods in women

> •Nausea and vomiting

> •Pounding, rapid, or irregular pulse *

> •Protruding eyes (exophthalmos)

> •Rapid, forceful, or irregular heartbeat (palpitations)

> •Skin blushing or flushing *

> •Sleeping difficulty *

>

> I am dealing with a sinus infection right now, and taking

> Zithromax so the last few days don't mean much. Fever has

> only been up to 101.4 but I have been sweating profusely off

> and on. Anyway I put an asterisk next to the symptoms I get

> lately,......seems like quite a few to me.

> My pulse has been running high lately as well, but it is

> not of a dangerous rhythm. Sinus tach pretty much that comes

> and goes.

> That area of my throat seems large to me, but the docs

> always just say that I have a large adam's apple and that

> they feel nothing of concern.

>

> I have said before that I think I am getting a small amount

> of gyno, but it could just be fat build-up from my low T. I

> AM slowly losing weight, and my appetite is nothing like it

> used to be.

>

> All I have ever had done is the standard TSH a number of

> times, and Free T4 one time last December. Both were

> normal,.....1.69, and 1.3 respectively.

> I know that there are many other things to test, and if

> nothing else possibly I can get this endo to do the proper

> thyroid testing even if she does crapola for my Low T.

>

> Sorry for another very long post, but I know some of you

> here have been through a lot, and know a lot about the

> thyroid. Thanks!

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

And test ALL the antibodies, that site only listed those for Hashimoto's. There

is another thyroid autoimmune condition called Grave's which causes hyper, and

you test TSI and TRAb, especially since you're presenting as more hyper than

hypo. If you mention that a biological family member has a thyroid condition,

they are more inclined to test you. Otherwise you'll usually get the useless

TSH.

You checked high BP. Are both numbers high, or just the top number? Generally

(not always), both numbers high is hypo, top number high and bottom low is

hyper.

Barb

>

> > From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...>

> > Subject: Question for those knowledgeable about thyroid

issues.

> >

> > Date: Tuesday, June 15, 2010, 1:45 PM

> > I am supposed to go to the endo I was

> > recommended on Monday.

> > While I do not hold out much hope for good on the T

> > front,......especially after speaking to a local member hear

> > via e-mail, I would like to know what I should look for in

> > terms of proper thyroid testing.

> >

> > I have family history of thyroid issues on both sides of

> > the family BTW.

> > My grandmother was hypothyroid and had to take synthroid

> > for many years before she passed away. My biological father

> > was the other way around and was hyper,.....took him a long

> > time to be diagnosed.

> > Taken from another site for hyper:

> >

> > Symptoms

> > •Difficulty concentrating *

> > •Fatigue *

> > •Frequent bowel movements *

> > •Goiter (visibly enlarged thyroid gland) or thyroid

> > nodules ?

> > •Heat intolerance *

> > •Increased appetite

> > •Increased sweating *

> > •Irregular menstrual periods in women

> > •Nervousness *

> > •Restlessness *

> > •Weight loss (rarely, weight gain)

> > Other symptoms that can occur with this disease:

> >

> > •Breast development in men *

> > •Clammy skin *

> > •Diarrhea *

> > •Hair loss

> > •Hand tremor *(at times)

> > •Weakness *

> > •High blood pressure *

> > •Itching - overall

> > •Lack of menstrual periods in women

> > •Nausea and vomiting

> > •Pounding, rapid, or irregular pulse *

> > •Protruding eyes (exophthalmos)

> > •Rapid, forceful, or irregular heartbeat (palpitations)

> > •Skin blushing or flushing *

> > •Sleeping difficulty *

> >

> > I am dealing with a sinus infection right now, and taking

> > Zithromax so the last few days don't mean much. Fever has

> > only been up to 101.4 but I have been sweating profusely off

> > and on. Anyway I put an asterisk next to the symptoms I get

> > lately,......seems like quite a few to me.

> > My pulse has been running high lately as well, but it is

> > not of a dangerous rhythm. Sinus tach pretty much that comes

> > and goes.

> > That area of my throat seems large to me, but the docs

> > always just say that I have a large adam's apple and that

> > they feel nothing of concern.

> >

> > I have said before that I think I am getting a small amount

> > of gyno, but it could just be fat build-up from my low T. I

> > AM slowly losing weight, and my appetite is nothing like it

> > used to be.

> >

> > All I have ever had done is the standard TSH a number of

> > times, and Free T4 one time last December. Both were

> > normal,.....1.69, and 1.3 respectively.

> > I know that there are many other things to test, and if

> > nothing else possibly I can get this endo to do the proper

> > thyroid testing even if she does crapola for my Low T.

> >

> > Sorry for another very long post, but I know some of you

> > here have been through a lot, and know a lot about the

> > thyroid. Thanks!

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I was diagnosed with hypertension at about 40 years of age. It has usually been

in lock-step per se concerning systolic/diastolic.

As high as 160/110 before meds, and now I run as low as 120/78 at

best,........140/90 worst case.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Barb this is what we are here for I never though about this.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Barb <baba@...>

> Subject: Re: Question for those knowledgeable about thyroid

issues.

>

> Date: Tuesday, June 15, 2010, 2:52 PM

> And test ALL the antibodies, that

> site only listed those for Hashimoto's.  There is

> another thyroid autoimmune condition called Grave's which

> causes hyper, and you test TSI and TRAb, especially since

> you're presenting as more hyper than hypo.  If you

> mention that a biological family member has a thyroid

> condition, they are more inclined to test you. 

> Otherwise you'll usually get the useless TSH.

>

> You checked high BP.  Are both numbers high, or just

> the top number?  Generally (not always), both numbers

> high is hypo, top number high and bottom low is hyper.

>

> Barb

>

>

>

> >

> > > From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...>

> > > Subject: Question for those

> knowledgeable about thyroid issues.

> > >

> > > Date: Tuesday, June 15, 2010, 1:45 PM

> > > I am supposed to go to the endo I was

> > > recommended on Monday.

> > > While I do not hold out much hope for good on the

> T

> > > front,......especially after speaking to a local

> member hear

> > > via e-mail, I would like to know what I should

> look for in

> > > terms of proper thyroid testing.

> > >

> > > I have family history of thyroid issues on both

> sides of

> > > the family BTW.

> > > My grandmother was hypothyroid and had to take

> synthroid

> > > for many years before she passed away. My

> biological father

> > > was the other way around and was hyper,.....took

> him a long

> > > time to be diagnosed.

> > > Taken from another site for hyper:

> > >

> > > Symptoms

> > > •Difficulty concentrating *

> > > •Fatigue *

> > > •Frequent bowel movements *

> > > •Goiter (visibly enlarged thyroid gland) or

> thyroid

> > > nodules ?

> > > •Heat intolerance *

> > > •Increased appetite

> > > •Increased sweating *

> > > •Irregular menstrual periods in women

> > > •Nervousness *

> > > •Restlessness *

> > > •Weight loss (rarely, weight gain)

> > > Other symptoms that can occur with this disease:

> > >

> > > •Breast development in men *

> > > •Clammy skin *

> > > •Diarrhea *

> > > •Hair loss

> > > •Hand tremor *(at times)

> > > •Weakness *

> > > •High blood pressure *

> > > •Itching - overall

> > > •Lack of menstrual periods in women

> > > •Nausea and vomiting

> > > •Pounding, rapid, or irregular pulse *

> > > •Protruding eyes (exophthalmos)

> > > •Rapid, forceful, or irregular heartbeat

> (palpitations)

> > > •Skin blushing or flushing *

> > > •Sleeping difficulty *

> > >

> > > I am dealing with a sinus infection right now,

> and taking

> > > Zithromax so the last few days don't mean much.

> Fever has

> > > only been up to 101.4 but I have been sweating

> profusely off

> > > and on. Anyway I put an asterisk next to the

> symptoms I get

> > > lately,......seems like quite a few to me.

> > > My pulse has been running high lately as well,

> but it is

> > > not of a dangerous rhythm. Sinus tach pretty much

> that comes

> > > and goes.

> > > That area of my throat seems large to me, but the

> docs

> > > always just say that I have a large adam's apple

> and that

> > > they feel nothing of concern.

> > >

> > > I have said before that I think I am getting a

> small amount

> > > of gyno, but it could just be fat build-up from

> my low T. I

> > > AM slowly losing weight, and my appetite is

> nothing like it

> > > used to be.

> > >

> > > All I have ever had done is the standard TSH a

> number of

> > > times, and Free T4 one time last December. Both

> were

> > > normal,.....1.69, and 1.3 respectively.

> > > I know that there are many other things to test,

> and if

> > > nothing else possibly I can get this endo to do

> the proper

> > > thyroid testing even if she does crapola for my

> Low T.

> > >

> > > Sorry for another very long post, but I know some

> of you

> > > here have been through a lot, and know a lot

> about the

> > > thyroid. Thanks!

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Barb,

Why would both numbers be high if you are hypo? just curious.

And Phil why do you suggest Total T3 what do you get from that number. In my

case it was very misleading as my Total T3 and Total T4 were okay but my Free T3

abd Free T4 where at the lowest threshold.

My TSH of course was 1.5 so it was a while before I could get help.

but then that is typical in pit cases.

Just curious about your thoughts.

Judy

>

> And test ALL the antibodies, that site only listed those for Hashimoto's.

There is another thyroid autoimmune condition called Grave's which causes hyper,

and you test TSI and TRAb, especially since you're presenting as more hyper than

hypo. If you mention that a biological family member has a thyroid condition,

they are more inclined to test you. Otherwise you'll usually get the useless

TSH.

>

> You checked high BP. Are both numbers high, or just the top number?

Generally (not always), both numbers high is hypo, top number high and bottom

low is hyper.

>

> Barb

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thyroid makes the artery walls more flexible, lack of it makes it stiff, so both

top and bottom numbers are high.

> >

> > And test ALL the antibodies, that site only listed those for Hashimoto's.

There is another thyroid autoimmune condition called Grave's which causes hyper,

and you test TSI and TRAb, especially since you're presenting as more hyper than

hypo. If you mention that a biological family member has a thyroid condition,

they are more inclined to test you. Otherwise you'll usually get the useless

TSH.

> >

> > You checked high BP. Are both numbers high, or just the top number?

Generally (not always), both numbers high is hypo, top number high and bottom

low is hyper.

> >

> > Barb

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I got this from Dr.no I can't find his post about it but he says it's like

men's Testostreone if your Total is low your Free is about 2% of your Total so

if Total is low Free being a low % nothing from nothing is nothing. Here is a

cut and paste I did find.

=========================================

THYROID HORMONE:

A useful target if considering primarily lab tests for optimizing thyroid

hormone is the following:

TSH <= 1.0

Free T3 between 3.3 to 3.9

Total T4 between 8-12

If at least one lab test is below these ranges, then a person may exhibit signs

of hypothyroidism.

T4 levels are important since the brain does its own conversion of T4 to T3. The

brain compartment can have different T4 and T3 levels than the rest of the body.

The brain and body are in two different compartments, separated by the blood

brain barrier. In Alzheimer's disease, brain thyroid levels are lower than the

rest of the body.

TSH is not as important a measurement compared to measuring Free T3 and Total

T4. If a person has some metabolic problem - including having heart disease,

diabetes, low iron, etc. then the nervous system cannot function well and TSH

will be abnormally low since the brain will have difficulty monitoring thyroid

hormone and making TSH.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: zashes11 <jharvey@...>

> Subject: Re: Question for those knowledgeable about thyroid

issues.

>

> Date: Tuesday, June 15, 2010, 7:45 PM

> Barb,

>

> Why would both numbers be high if you are hypo? just

> curious.

>

> And Phil why do you suggest Total T3 what do you get from

> that number. In my case it was very misleading as my Total

> T3 and Total T4 were okay but my Free T3 abd Free T4 where

> at the lowest threshold.

> My TSH of course was 1.5 so it was a while before I could

> get help.

> but then that is typical in pit cases.

> Just curious about your thoughts.

>

> Judy

>

>

> >

> > And test ALL the antibodies, that site only listed

> those for Hashimoto's.  There is another thyroid

> autoimmune condition called Grave's which causes hyper, and

> you test TSI and TRAb, especially since you're presenting as

> more hyper than hypo.  If you mention that a biological

> family member has a thyroid condition, they are more

> inclined to test you.  Otherwise you'll usually get the

> useless TSH.

> >

> > You checked high BP.  Are both numbers high, or

> just the top number?  Generally (not always), both

> numbers high is hypo, top number high and bottom low is

> hyper.

> >

> > Barb

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Not trying to start an argument... I think testing Total T4 and FT4 to see if

you have a protein binding issue is important.

That being said, the studies that say T4 only cross to the brain have been

disputed. More recent studies have shown T3 goes across the blood brain barrier.

http://www.drlowe.com/jcl/comentry/notransthyretin.htm

I'm on T3 only treatment. My Total T4 was non-detect on my recent labs but my

cognitive symptoms have improved immensely.

Get you ferritin, B12, and Vit D check if you haven't had them already. All

these can lower thryoid function.

Jennie

>

> I got this from Dr.no I can't find his post about it but he says it's

like men's Testostreone if your Total is low your Free is about 2% of your Total

so if Total is low Free being a low % nothing from nothing is nothing. Here is

a cut and paste I did find.

> =========================================

> THYROID HORMONE:

>

> A useful target if considering primarily lab tests for optimizing thyroid

hormone is the following:

>

> TSH <= 1.0

> Free T3 between 3.3 to 3.9

> Total T4 between 8-12

>

> If at least one lab test is below these ranges, then a person may exhibit

signs of hypothyroidism.

>

> T4 levels are important since the brain does its own conversion of T4 to T3.

The brain compartment can have different T4 and T3 levels than the rest of the

body. The brain and body are in two different compartments, separated by the

blood brain barrier. In Alzheimer's disease, brain thyroid levels are lower than

the rest of the body.

>

> TSH is not as important a measurement compared to measuring Free T3 and Total

T4. If a person has some metabolic problem - including having heart disease,

diabetes, low iron, etc. then the nervous system cannot function well and TSH

will be abnormally low since the brain will have difficulty monitoring thyroid

hormone and making TSH.

>

> Co-Moderator

> Phil

[Guest guest]

Jennie good point but your on treatment we are talking to someone that is not on

treatment trying to find out if they need treatment.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: jrmoidel <jrmoidel@...>

> Subject: Re: Question for those knowledgeable about thyroid

issues.

>

> Date: Wednesday, June 16, 2010, 10:19 AM

> Not trying to start an argument... I

> think testing Total T4 and FT4 to see if you have a protein

> binding issue is important.

>

> That being said, the studies that say T4 only cross to the

> brain have been disputed. More recent studies have shown T3

> goes across the blood brain barrier.

http://www.drlowe.com/jcl/comentry/notransthyretin.htm

>

> I'm on T3 only treatment. My Total T4 was non-detect on my

> recent labs but my cognitive symptoms have improved

> immensely.

>

> Get you ferritin, B12, and Vit D check if you haven't had

> them already. All these can lower thryoid function.

>

> Jennie

>

>

> >

> > I got this from Dr.no I can't find his post about

> it but he says it's like men's Testostreone if your Total is

> low your Free is about 2% of your Total so if Total is low

> Free being a low % nothing from nothing is nothing. 

> Here is a cut and paste I did find.

> > =========================================

> > THYROID HORMONE:

> >

> > A useful target if considering primarily lab tests for

> optimizing thyroid hormone is the following:

> >

> > TSH <= 1.0

> > Free T3 between 3.3 to 3.9

> > Total T4 between 8-12

> >

> > If at least one lab test is below these ranges, then a

> person may exhibit signs of hypothyroidism.

> >

> > T4 levels are important since the brain does its own

> conversion of T4 to T3. The brain compartment can have

> different T4 and T3 levels than the rest of the body. The

> brain and body are in two different compartments, separated

> by the blood brain barrier. In Alzheimer's disease, brain

> thyroid levels are lower than the rest of the body.

> >

> > TSH is not as important a measurement compared to

> measuring Free T3 and Total T4. If a person has some

> metabolic problem - including having heart disease,

> diabetes, low iron, etc. then the nervous system cannot

> function well and TSH will be abnormally low since the brain

> will have difficulty monitoring thyroid hormone and making

> TSH.

> >

> > Co-Moderator

> > Phil

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for all of the input folks,....I am making notes of all these tests to

bring with me. I am going to have to postpone my appointment though due to this

darn sinus infection taking me out for several days.

Too far behind on work, and have to catch up the rest of this week, and early

next week.

I have had something very strange happen to me 2 nights in a row now. I sleep in

a sleeveless t-shirt many times when sick, and around 4 to 5AM I have awakened

to find my shirt soaked with sweat on the front and back. No smell whatsoever

BTW.

I have had many sinus infections in my lifetime, and have sweat on and off

during the day from fever. I also may have awakened at night feeling a little

clammy, but I have never had a dump like this before.

Could this be coming from my low T, or a thyroid issue?

I know I have read about women that have to change the bed when they are going

through menopause,......wondering if it can be the same for men and

'andropause.'

This group is a real blessing with the abundance of robot docs out there. First

time I have had a reason to distrust the medical community myself has been this

venture.

[Guest guest]

The only time I would do this is if I was running a fever, low sugar or high

Estradiol levels. But there was a time when my Thyroid meds were to high and I

was hyper I would sweat like this.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...>

> Subject: Re: Question for those knowledgeable about thyroid

issues.

>

> Date: Wednesday, June 16, 2010, 2:18 PM

> Thanks for all of the input

> folks,....I am making notes of all these tests to bring with

> me. I am going to have to postpone my appointment though due

> to this darn sinus infection taking me out for several

> days.

> Too far behind on work, and have to catch up the rest of

> this week, and early next week.

>

> I have had something very strange happen to me 2 nights in

> a row now. I sleep in a sleeveless t-shirt many times when

> sick, and around 4 to 5AM I have awakened to find my shirt

> soaked with sweat on the front and back. No smell whatsoever

> BTW.

>

> I have had many sinus infections in my lifetime, and have

> sweat on and off during the day from fever. I also may have

> awakened at night feeling a little clammy, but I have never

> had a dump like this before.

>

> Could this be coming from my low T, or a thyroid issue?

> I know I have read about women that have to change the bed

> when they are going through menopause,......wondering if it

> can be the same for men and 'andropause.'

>

> This group is a real blessing with the abundance of robot

> docs out there. First time I have had a reason to distrust

> the medical community myself has been this venture.

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Phil,.....I haven't been hyper at all. My fever never got over 101.8 either

which surprised me when this happened.

I have heard of infections coming out of you this way, but it has never happened

to me before. My glucose levels are fine,.....that was the first thing I

checked.

Possibly another example of my having high Estrogen?

This should not take this long to find out a simple answer. I get more angry by

the day with the garbage I am having to go through to get the info that I need.

If this endo won't check my estrogen levels, I will probably flip on her and

walk out,.......I have had enough at this point.

>

> > From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...>

> > Subject: Re: Question for those knowledgeable about thyroid

issues.

> >

> > Date: Wednesday, June 16, 2010, 2:18 PM

> > Thanks for all of the input

> > folks,....I am making notes of all these tests to bring with

> > me. I am going to have to postpone my appointment though due

> > to this darn sinus infection taking me out for several

> > days.

> > Too far behind on work, and have to catch up the rest of

> > this week, and early next week.

> >

> > I have had something very strange happen to me 2 nights in

> > a row now. I sleep in a sleeveless t-shirt many times when

> > sick, and around 4 to 5AM I have awakened to find my shirt

> > soaked with sweat on the front and back. No smell whatsoever

> > BTW.

> >

> > I have had many sinus infections in my lifetime, and have

> > sweat on and off during the day from fever. I also may have

> > awakened at night feeling a little clammy, but I have never

> > had a dump like this before.

> >

> > Could this be coming from my low T, or a thyroid issue?

> > I know I have read about women that have to change the bed

> > when they are going through menopause,......wondering if it

> > can be the same for men and 'andropause.'

> >

> > This group is a real blessing with the abundance of robot

> > docs out there. First time I have had a reason to distrust

> > the medical community myself has been this venture.

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

LOL Mark if you " flip and walk out " you will be the second on of us who did

that on her. She may start to wonder about us Hypogonadial men. Not

meaning this to poke fun at you. I do know how frustrating this can be.

Hang in there buddy you / we will get through this. At least you have the

knowledge of what you need. If you didn't then we would be at the mercy of

some clueless doctor.

The thing I have found is if you don't expect too much then you can't be

too disappointed but still it is hard to feel like your wasting time when

you want to feel better ASAP. I would just accept the fact that like most

doctors she isn't likely to be up on estradiol but you can still ask her to

do that for you. Just tell her you want to know. Remember she is working

for you you have a right to ask about the things that you are concerned

about. Tell her that if you need to and don't let her blow you off. If she

says it's not necessary just politely tell her that it is important to you

and you want to know. How can she argue with that? Find out what you can

from her and them be prepared to move on. I wish I had done a better job of

preparing her for you but just didn't think ahead at the time. Brett

----- Original Message -----

From: " marc200134470 " <cfs38@...>

< >

Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 5:27 PM

If this endo won't check my estrogen levels, I will probably flip on her and

walk out,.......I have had enough at this point.

[Guest guest]

Yep it sure sounds like your Estradiol levels are high. If you can't get it

Checked with your Dr. you can order the test from LEF.

Cost is $33.

http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/ItemLC004515/Estradiol-Blood-Test.html

If you don't live in the USA Chilln at Dr. 's has this list.

http://musclechatroom.com/forum/showpost.php?p=46275 & postcount=13

You can order Arimidex from the ADC.

https://www.alldaychemist.com/search.php

Or you can buy Indolplex/DIM this is sold OTC.

==================================================

ALL ABOUT DIM.

Sure here is a few links that are all about it. But there are a lot of Co.'s

out there selling DIM that don't work well. Indolplex/DIM is the best it dose

not get killed in your stomach when you take it.

Diindolylmethane (DIM) is a stable indole found in cruciferous vegetables which

promotes a beneficial estrogen metabolism in both women and men.

http://www.dimfaq.com/index.htm

in this link it's full of links about it.

http://qualitycounts.com/fpdim.html

http://www.jbc.org/content/278/23/21136.full

If you have DIM in caps it's not Indolplex so to take this and to get it to work

open the cap pore the DIM into a spoon add some Olive oil and take it this helps

to keep it from getting killed in your stomach.

The following is some links to where you can buy Indolplex/DIM.

http://www.vitaglo.com/e5336.html

http://www.vitacost.com/EnzymaticTherapyEstroBalancewithDIM/searchby-PN/searchte\

xt-dim

http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0

http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0

http://www.estrobalance.net/

http://www.easyhealthzone.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=PP0108 & click=71

http://www.nbizz.com/longevityclinic/listings/213.html

http://www.drugnatural.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD & Store_Code=DMOS & Product_\

Code=156497

http://www.smartbomb.com/itindo9.html?utm_source=mercent & utm_medium=shopcompare & \

utm_content=itindo9 & utm_campaign=mbsdb & mr:trackingCode=C6AEFBD1-E681-DE11-B7F3-0\

019B9C043EB & mr:referralID=NA

http://www.ritecare.com/cgi-bin/cart.pl?db=product_db.dat & category=natural+medic\

ine & method=any_words & search=iti-75336

http://www.naturamart.com/phytopharmica-pms-formula-with-indoplex-120-caps.html

How to take Indolplex/DIM take one tablet 120 mgs at dinner time it can take 2

weeks to 2 months to get your Estradiol levels down it’s all about how high

you are in your levels. What you need to do is get this down to about 20 pg/ml.

When you get this low your night time and morning wood will come back so strong

it will wake you up this means most of the time your at your best levels or what

I call the sweet spot. Keep taking the DIM but if your wood stops your going

down to low so just stop taking it. The day your wood comes back go back on

the DIM but cut the tablet in half. If your Testosterone was tested and low but

your not on TRT get it tested again you might find your levels came up some 200

to 300 points.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...>

> Subject: Re: Question for those knowledgeable about thyroid

issues.

>

> Date: Wednesday, June 16, 2010, 5:27 PM

> Phil,.....I haven't been hyper at

> all. My fever never got over 101.8 either which surprised me

> when this happened.

>

> I have heard of infections coming out of you this way, but

> it has never happened to me before. My glucose levels are

> fine,.....that was the first thing I checked.

>

> Possibly another example of my having high Estrogen?

> This should not take this long to find out a simple answer.

> I get more angry by the day with the garbage I am having to

> go through to get the info that I need.

>

> If this endo won't check my estrogen levels, I will

> probably flip on her and walk out,.......I have had enough

> at this point.

>

>

> >

> > > From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...>

> > > Subject: Re: Question for those

> knowledgeable about thyroid issues.

> > >

> > > Date: Wednesday, June 16, 2010, 2:18 PM

> > > Thanks for all of the input

> > > folks,....I am making notes of all these tests to

> bring with

> > > me. I am going to have to postpone my appointment

> though due

> > > to this darn sinus infection taking me out for

> several

> > > days.

> > > Too far behind on work, and have to catch up the

> rest of

> > > this week, and early next week.

> > >

> > > I have had something very strange happen to me 2

> nights in

> > > a row now. I sleep in a sleeveless t-shirt many

> times when

> > > sick, and around 4 to 5AM I have awakened to find

> my shirt

> > > soaked with sweat on the front and back. No smell

> whatsoever

> > > BTW.

> > >

> > > I have had many sinus infections in my lifetime,

> and have

> > > sweat on and off during the day from fever. I

> also may have

> > > awakened at night feeling a little clammy, but I

> have never

> > > had a dump like this before.

> > >

> > > Could this be coming from my low T, or a thyroid

> issue?

> > > I know I have read about women that have to

> change the bed

> > > when they are going through

> menopause,......wondering if it

> > > can be the same for men and 'andropause.'

> > >

> > > This group is a real blessing with the abundance

> of robot

> > > docs out there. First time I have had a reason to

> distrust

> > > the medical community myself has been this

> venture.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Go to her with info and studies here are a few.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174

http://www.medibolics.com/ArimidexBoostsTestosterone.htm

http://www.smart-drugs.com/ias-estrogen.htm

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2008/nov2008_Dangers-of-Excess-Estrogen-in-the-Ag\

ing-Male_01.htm

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=male+estradiol+arimidex+hypogonadism+study & h\

l=en & client=firefox-a & rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official & um=1 & oi=scholart

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Brett Savage <brshop@...>

> Subject: Re: Question for those knowledgeable about thyroid

issues.

>

> Date: Wednesday, June 16, 2010, 10:52 PM

> LOL Mark if you " flip and walk

> out "   you will be the second on of us who did

> that on her.  She may start to wonder about us

> Hypogonadial men.  Not

> meaning this to poke fun at you.   I do know

> how frustrating this can be.

> Hang in there buddy you / we will get through this. 

> At least you have the

> knowledge of what you need. If you didn't then we would be

> at the mercy of

> some clueless doctor.

>     The thing I have found is if you don't expect

> too much then you can't be

> too disappointed but still it is hard to feel like your

> wasting time when

> you want to feel better ASAP.  I would just accept the

> fact that like most

> doctors she isn't likely to be up on estradiol but you can

> still ask her to

> do that for you.  Just tell her you want to

> know.  Remember she is working

> for you you have a right to ask about the things that you

> are concerned

> about.  Tell her that if you need to and don't let her

> blow you off.  If she

> says it's not necessary just politely tell her that it is

> important to you

> and you want to know.  How can she argue with

> that?  Find out what you can

> from her and them be prepared to move on.  I wish I

> had done a better job of

> preparing her for you but just didn't think ahead at the

> time.  Brett

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: " marc200134470 " <cfs38@...>

> < >

> Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 5:27 PM

> If this endo won't check my estrogen levels, I will

> probably flip on her and

> walk out,.......I have had enough at this point.

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Brett,......just got off the phone with her office. I changed my appointment to

7/8 which was the first morning she had. The girl on the phone asked why I was

being referred for the second time, so I tried to sneak in some questions. Waste

of time!

They seem very nice over there, but all she would say was you can talk to her

about all of this, and she is VERY good, so she will most likely be able to take

care of you! LMAO

I will go with an open mind, and a list of tests I want done. I can explain

myself why I want them done without bringing 100 pages of documentation. She

will either go along, or I will walk,.......simple!

I am going to be a bit tougher than you were,.....plus I have the ability to say

my Cardiologist agreed with me, and wanted to send me to her to avoid insurance

issues with him ordering these tests, and pursuing these treatment paths. That

is the truth BTW,......he agreed with everything I said about my LH being low

for a total T of 209, and he is also aware of how estrogen can trick the

pituitary. He is also up on using clomid to replace the LH signal and doing a

challenge. I figure I get a look like I hit a brick wall! LOL

Another short dumb doc story.

Went to my ENT that I have not seen for 4 years now this AM. HE decides to put

me on a different antibiotic. It is something called Ceftin.

They have in my chart that I am allergic to penicillin, plus I mentioned it in

front of him again. I get home and look the stuff up since I have never heard of

it before getting it filled. )

Basically says do not use if allergice to penicillin, and the dose he prescribed

is twice that of what is suggested for sinus infection. No wonder folks with

serious health issues end up losing their minds.

>

> LOL Mark if you " flip and walk out " you will be the second on of us who did

> that on her. She may start to wonder about us Hypogonadial men. Not

> meaning this to poke fun at you. I do know how frustrating this can be.

> Hang in there buddy you / we will get through this. At least you have the

> knowledge of what you need. If you didn't then we would be at the mercy of

> some clueless doctor.

> The thing I have found is if you don't expect too much then you can't be

> too disappointed but still it is hard to feel like your wasting time when

> you want to feel better ASAP. I would just accept the fact that like most

> doctors she isn't likely to be up on estradiol but you can still ask her to

> do that for you. Just tell her you want to know. Remember she is working

> for you you have a right to ask about the things that you are concerned

> about. Tell her that if you need to and don't let her blow you off. If she

> says it's not necessary just politely tell her that it is important to you

> and you want to know. How can she argue with that? Find out what you can

> from her and them be prepared to move on. I wish I had done a better job of

> preparing her for you but just didn't think ahead at the time. Brett

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: " marc200134470 " <cfs38@...>

> < >

> Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 5:27 PM

> If this endo won't check my estrogen levels, I will probably flip on her and

> walk out,.......I have had enough at this point.

>

[Guest guest]

Phil,.....Thanks for all those links, but I am not going into a doctor with 100

pages of printed material. Around here you are luck to get 30 minutes with a doc

as a new patient, and there is no way they are going to read all that stuff.

I will offer to send it to her if she wants, but otherwise I intend to make my

own argument. I am pretty blunt and straightforward, so I will find out quickly

if it is a total waste of time on the TRT front. At that stage I will turn to

the thyroid testing issue, and may at least get that done since I have family

history, and I have symptoms.

It is all such a pathetic joke to be honest,......I should have had my estrogen

levels, and the more detailed T test done weeks ago. Heck no,......that would be

too easy. If it's like this now, I can only imagine what ObamaCare will be like

one day. (

Thanks for that testing link. I had no idea I could order it myself for that

cheap.

[Guest guest]

Yes I hear you some men need to read about this before seeing the Dr. so they

can make there case. I would show the one study on men getting low T from high

Estradiol this she could read later it will open her eyes.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...>

> Subject: Re: Question for those knowledgeable about thyroid

issues.

>

> Date: Thursday, June 17, 2010, 1:03 PM

> Phil,.....Thanks for all those links,

> but I am not going into a doctor with 100 pages of printed

> material. Around here you are luck to get 30 minutes with a

> doc as a new patient, and there is no way they are going to

> read all that stuff.

>

> I will offer to send it to her if she wants, but otherwise

> I intend to make my own argument. I am pretty blunt and

> straightforward, so I will find out quickly if it is a total

> waste of time on the TRT front. At that stage I will turn to

> the thyroid testing issue, and may at least get that done

> since I have family history, and I have symptoms.

>

> It is all such a pathetic joke to be honest,......I should

> have had my estrogen levels, and the more detailed T test

> done weeks ago. Heck no,......that would be too easy. If

> it's like this now, I can only imagine what ObamaCare will

> be like one day. (

>

> Thanks for that testing link. I had no idea I could order

> it myself for that cheap.

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Marc,

They were nice enough there. She defiantly THINKS she is pretty good. If

you like doing shots every 2-3 weeks, using hCG ONLY if your interested in

fertility and don't mind crashing when she takes someone off TRT so she can

try to find out what you base labs were. Which according to Phil's

experience is imposable anyway. Oh yea, she didn't think I could have been

low because I have a daughter conceived when I was 20. Now I am 55. Go

figure? I just wasn't in any mood to argue about it. Made my escape! LOL

I still think you should go and see if she can shed any light on why you

are low. That should have been done with me before I started but

unfortunately it wasn't. I think she may be able to do that much for you

but you probably will be looking elsewhere to get decent therapy after that.

I know except for labs I am not making any more appointments before at

least noon or later. That time in the day my brain just can't deal with

anything the least bit stressful. This adrenal insufficiency I guess? I

only went there because my DO thought she would be up on hCG. After that I

just went ahead and got my own. Had my first shot of 250 IU this AM and I

think I am feeling a bit more positive already. We'll see! I do wish

after I left there that I had done a better job explaining why I wanted the

treatment I did. Guess I will leave that to you.

I know what Phil suggests to ask if a doctor is up on or will prescribe

Arimidex etc. but when ever I have ever tried to ask any doctors staff

questions like that all I have ever gotten is we can't say what the doctor

would proscribe for you. But they are always certan he will know all about

it. Next time I am just going to flat out ask for references. Can you

furnish me references of men that you have successfully treated for this

condition? If that doesn't get there attention I am just going to flat out

tell them I am not waiting any more time on quack doctors that don't have a

clue what good TRT is. That's my story and I am sticking to it.

Brett

Re: Question for those knowledgeable about thyroid

issues.

>

>

> Brett,......just got off the phone with her office. I changed my

> appointment to 7/8 which was the first morning she had. The girl on the

> phone asked why I was being referred for the second time, so I tried to

> sneak in some questions. Waste of time!

>

> They seem very nice over there, but all she would say was you can talk to

> her about all of this, and she is VERY good, so she will most likely be

> able to take care of you! LMAO

>

> I will go with an open mind, and a list of tests I want done. I can

> explain myself why I want them done without bringing 100 pages of

> documentation. She will either go along, or I will walk,.......simple!

>

> I am going to be a bit tougher than you were,.....plus I have the ability

> to say my Cardiologist agreed with me, and wanted to send me to her to

> avoid insurance issues with him ordering these tests, and pursuing these

> treatment paths. That is the truth BTW,......he agreed with everything I

> said about my LH being low for a total T of 209, and he is also aware of

> how estrogen can trick the pituitary. He is also up on using clomid to

> replace the LH signal and doing a challenge. I figure I get a look like I

> hit a brick wall! LOL

>

> Another short dumb doc story.

> Went to my ENT that I have not seen for 4 years now this AM. HE decides to

> put me on a different antibiotic. It is something called Ceftin.

> They have in my chart that I am allergic to penicillin, plus I mentioned

> it in front of him again. I get home and look the stuff up since I have

> never heard of it before getting it filled. )

>

> Basically says do not use if allergice to penicillin, and the dose he

> prescribed is twice that of what is suggested for sinus infection. No

> wonder folks with serious health issues end up losing their minds.

>

>

>>

>> LOL Mark if you " flip and walk out " you will be the second on of us who

>> did

>> that on her. She may start to wonder about us Hypogonadial men. Not

>> meaning this to poke fun at you. I do know how frustrating this can be.

>> Hang in there buddy you / we will get through this. At least you have

>> the

>> knowledge of what you need. If you didn't then we would be at the mercy

>> of

>> some clueless doctor.

>> The thing I have found is if you don't expect too much then you can't

>> be

>> too disappointed but still it is hard to feel like your wasting time when

>> you want to feel better ASAP. I would just accept the fact that like

>> most

>> doctors she isn't likely to be up on estradiol but you can still ask her

>> to

>> do that for you. Just tell her you want to know. Remember she is

>> working

>> for you you have a right to ask about the things that you are concerned

>> about. Tell her that if you need to and don't let her blow you off. If

>> she

>> says it's not necessary just politely tell her that it is important to

>> you

>> and you want to know. How can she argue with that? Find out what you

>> can

>> from her and them be prepared to move on. I wish I had done a better job

>> of

>> preparing her for you but just didn't think ahead at the time. Brett

>> ----- Original Message -----

>> From: " marc200134470 " <cfs38@...>

>> < >

>> Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 5:27 PM

>> If this endo won't check my estrogen levels, I will probably flip on her

>> and

>> walk out,.......I have had enough at this point.

>>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Brett,

With HIPPA in place there's no way the doctor can give you any references. 

Maybe the doc can give you a number of how many men he/she has helped and how

he/she helped them.

Bill

________________________________

From: Brett Savage <brshop@...>

Sent: Sat, June 19, 2010 3:09:43 AM

Subject: Re: Question for those knowledgeable about thyroid

issues.

 

Marc,

They were nice enough there. She defiantly THINKS she is pretty good. If

you like doing shots every 2-3 weeks, using hCG ONLY if your interested in

fertility and don't mind crashing when she takes someone off TRT so she can

try to find out what you base labs were. Which according to Phil's

experience is imposable anyway. Oh yea, she didn't think I could have been

low because I have a daughter conceived when I was 20. Now I am 55. Go

figure? I just wasn't in any mood to argue about it. Made my escape! LOL

I still think you should go and see if she can shed any light on why you

are low. That should have been done with me before I started but

unfortunately it wasn't. I think she may be able to do that much for you

but you probably will be looking elsewhere to get decent therapy after that.

I know except for labs I am not making any more appointments before at

least noon or later. That time in the day my brain just can't deal with

anything the least bit stressful. This adrenal insufficiency I guess? I

only went there because my DO thought she would be up on hCG. After that I

just went ahead and got my own. Had my first shot of 250 IU this AM and I

think I am feeling a bit more positive already. We'll see! I do wish

after I left there that I had done a better job explaining why I wanted the

treatment I did. Guess I will leave that to you.

I know what Phil suggests to ask if a doctor is up on or will prescribe

Arimidex etc. but when ever I have ever tried to ask any doctors staff

questions like that all I have ever gotten is we can't say what the doctor

would proscribe for you. But they are always certan he will know all about

it. Next time I am just going to flat out ask for references. Can you

furnish me references of men that you have successfully treated for this

condition? If that doesn't get there attention I am just going to flat out

tell them I am not waiting any more time on quack doctors that don't have a

clue what good TRT is. That's my story and I am sticking to it.

Brett

Re: Question for those knowledgeable about thyroid

issues.

>

>

> Brett,......just got off the phone with her office. I changed my

> appointment to 7/8 which was the first morning she had. The girl on the

> phone asked why I was being referred for the second time, so I tried to

> sneak in some questions. Waste of time!

>

> They seem very nice over there, but all she would say was you can talk to

> her about all of this, and she is VERY good, so she will most likely be

> able to take care of you! LMAO

>

> I will go with an open mind, and a list of tests I want done. I can

> explain myself why I want them done without bringing 100 pages of

> documentation. She will either go along, or I will walk,.......simple!

>

> I am going to be a bit tougher than you were,.....plus I have the ability

> to say my Cardiologist agreed with me, and wanted to send me to her to

> avoid insurance issues with him ordering these tests, and pursuing these

> treatment paths. That is the truth BTW,......he agreed with everything I

> said about my LH being low for a total T of 209, and he is also aware of

> how estrogen can trick the pituitary. He is also up on using clomid to

> replace the LH signal and doing a challenge. I figure I get a look like I

> hit a brick wall! LOL

>

> Another short dumb doc story.

> Went to my ENT that I have not seen for 4 years now this AM. HE decides to

> put me on a different antibiotic. It is something called Ceftin.

> They have in my chart that I am allergic to penicillin, plus I mentioned

> it in front of him again. I get home and look the stuff up since I have

> never heard of it before getting it filled. )

>

> Basically says do not use if allergice to penicillin, and the dose he

> prescribed is twice that of what is suggested for sinus infection. No

> wonder folks with serious health issues end up losing their minds.

>

>

>>

>> LOL Mark if you " flip and walk out " you will be the second on of us who

>> did

>> that on her. She may start to wonder about us Hypogonadial men. Not

>> meaning this to poke fun at you. I do know how frustrating this can be.

>> Hang in there buddy you / we will get through this. At least you have

>> the

>> knowledge of what you need. If you didn't then we would be at the mercy

>> of

>> some clueless doctor.

>> The thing I have found is if you don't expect too much then you can't

>> be

>> too disappointed but still it is hard to feel like your wasting time when

>> you want to feel better ASAP. I would just accept the fact that like

>> most

>> doctors she isn't likely to be up on estradiol but you can still ask her

>> to

>> do that for you. Just tell her you want to know. Remember she is

>> working

>> for you you have a right to ask about the things that you are concerned

>> about. Tell her that if you need to and don't let her blow you off. If

>> she

>> says it's not necessary just politely tell her that it is important to

>> you

>> and you want to know. How can she argue with that? Find out what you

>> can

>> from her and them be prepared to move on. I wish I had done a better job

>> of

>> preparing her for you but just didn't think ahead at the time. Brett

>> ----- Original Message -----

>> From: " marc200134470 " <cfs38@...>

>> < >

>> Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 5:27 PM

>> If this endo won't check my estrogen levels, I will probably flip on her

>> and

>> walk out,.......I have had enough at this point.

>>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Yes I hear you some men need to read about this before seeing the Dr. so they

can make there case. I would show the one study on men getting low T from high

Estradiol this she could read later it will open her eyes.

> Co-Moderator

> Phil

Phil,......are you talking about the one by Rick Cohen MD?

I stripped that one into a word doc so it didn't show 'Offshore Pharmacy' in it.

LOL

[Guest guest]

That one is not a study but good that you did that here is the link I am talking

about.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...>

> Subject: Re: Question for those knowledgeable about thyroid

issues.

>

> Date: Saturday, June 19, 2010, 11:56 AM

>

>

>

> >

> > Yes I hear you some men need to read about this before

> seeing the Dr. so they can make there case.  I would

> show the one study on men getting low T from high Estradiol

> this she could read later it will open her eyes.

> > Co-Moderator

> > Phil

> Phil,......are you talking about the one by Rick Cohen MD?

> I stripped that one into a word doc so it didn't show

> 'Offshore Pharmacy' in it. LOL

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> That one is not a study but good that you did that here is the link I am

talking about.

> http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174

> Co-Moderator

> Phil

I saw that one but it references elderly men,.....how fast do think she would

mention that, and say " You are not elderly. " )

I am 48 going on 70,.....at least that's how I feel some days!

[Guest guest]

Good point but he dose happen to younger men also it starts in mem when they hit

40. The age is not the point the point is men have problems with high Estradiol

point on.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...>

> Subject: Re: Question for those knowledgeable about thyroid

issues.

>

> Date: Saturday, June 19, 2010, 1:37 PM

>

>

>

> >

> > That one is not a study but good that you did that

> here is the link I am talking about.

> > http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174

> > Co-Moderator

> > Phil

>

> I saw that one but it references elderly men,.....how fast

> do think she would mention that, and say " You are not

> elderly. " )

>

> I am 48 going on 70,.....at least that's how I feel some

> days!

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>