Re: In need of help and guidance please

January 13, 2011

If you have a fine tremor all the time, your cortisol levels are too low. Your

gaunt face and low weight confirm this.

The two main lifestyle problems I see are your being vegetarian, and your being

a competitive runner. If you don't eat enough for your body to support your

activity, your body will convert to rT3 to prevent your body from starvation.

Woman who overexercise and undereat deal with this all the time and cannot lose

weight. But it can go the other way where you can't gain weight either, because

your cortisol is too low.

A healthy diet is the one that cavemen used to eat, which includes everything;

it is not high protein, or vegetarian, or low fat, it is meat AND vegetables AND

fruit AND fat. Your body needs the nutrients from each component. Maybe your

fat intake is restricted because you have no gall bladder and this is affecting

your nutrient intake?

Is it possible you could be celiac? They have gut absorption problems leading

to low ferritin.

Taking T3-only will raise your SHBG, and this can have a negative effect on some

of your other hormones like testosterone.

You might want to read Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon for diet advice,

and actually STOP the running for awhile. Take walks for exercise. Your

adrenals need the rest. You will never get better unless you change your diet

and stop overexercising.

JMHO,

Barb

>

> Hi guys

>

> My first post here on this informative board which was highly

> recommended to me by Lethal Lee.

> I have been monitoring the posts in this forum for a little while and

> have read through many of the reports in the file section which I found

> very helpful so a big thanks.

>

> My story is that I have been bouncing around within the Australian

> allopathic medical system for the last 5 years without a creditable

> answer or a helpful diagnosis of what I believe are my RT3 / Adrenal/

> Hormonal and low ferritin problem(s).

>

> My comprehensive details are as follows. I know it is a lot so please

> excuse the length of this initial post but I thought I should get it all

> out there. If somebody could take the time and effort to provide some

> helpful guidance and advice it may assist me to finally move in the

> direction of solving my problem(s). For this I would be eternally

> grateful and hopefully a whole lot healthier.

>

> I have been over on the RT3 and the NTH Adrenal forums looking for

> answers as well.

>

> My details

>

> Male 59 years 182 cm or 6' tall

> Currently 70 kilograms or 154 lbs (normal range 70 kgs to maybe 75kgs at

> heaviest)

> Try to keep fit attending gym 5 nights weekly for running and weights

>

> Resting Heart Rate 55 to 65 BPM (when well and fit) currently though

> mostly higher

> Under a lot of ongoing stress which can't be solved immediately

>

> Gallbladder was removed in 1990 which was my turning point to eating

> healthy

>

> Vegetarian eating seafood, cheese and eggs. Recently added chicken back

> in. Try and focus on raw foods as much as I can.

>

> Use Himalayan Salt on food and drink Celtic Sea Salt ½ tsp 3 x p/d

> for low sodium

>

> I have been working on raising my chronic low ferritin levels, lowering

> my stress load, lowering my RT3 levels, raising my Aldosterone, sodium

> and potassium, supporting my adrenals, improving digestion and

> absorption and trying to put on some weight, both muscle and fat.

>

> But with my latest serum Estradiol and SHBG results I now need to focus

> on my sex hormones again as well, hence I am here. Hope you guys can

> help me!

>

> Prescribed Drugs

>

> Tertroxin ( Liothyronine) currently 40mcg daily in split doses, since

> September 29 2010. Hoping to wean myself from this gradually in

> February/March. Have been aiming for RT3 cellular clearance but not sure

> if that is going to happen or not as I am on a lowish dose and wary of

> going higher especially without any HC??

>

> Current Supplements per day

>

> " Ethical Nutrients Iron Plus " 20 mg Iron x 1

>

> Thorne Iron Picollinate 25mg x 1

>

> Now Iron Bisglycinate 18mg x 1

>

> Fish oil 1000mg x 4

>

> Now Krill oil 1000mg x 1

>

> Healthy Origins Ubiquinol CoQ10 100mg x 1

>

> Total Balance Multi x 7 tabs Premium combination from NZ

>

> Vit D x 1000iu x 6

>

> Glucosamine Sulphate & Chondroiton 1500mg x 1

>

> Prostate Complete x 1

>

> Ultra Zinc 46mg x 1 every 2nd day as already getting 30mg daily in other

> supps

>

> Magnesium oil Ancient Minerals x 100mg elemental Magnesium on skin,

>

> Morning smoothie with Flaxseeds, slippery elm, psyllium husks, WPI,

> coconut oil, blueberries, almonds, yoghurt, coconut cream and rice milk.

> Have been including Maca 1 tsp but currently just cycling it off and

> will add it back in 2 weeks or so along with LGlutamine ½ tsp x 2

>

> Recently added supplements (24th December 2010) to target sex hormones

> and adrenals mostly

>

> Natures Way DIM Plus x 6

>

> Metabolic Maintenance DIM Complex x 1

>

> LEF Super MiraForte x 4

>

> Now Tru C 400mg x 2

>

> Ascorbic Palmitate Vit C 500mg x 1

>

> Jarrow Adrenal Optimizer x 1

>

> Thorne Basic B Complex (active) x 2

>

> Now Licorice x 450mg x 2

>

> Doctors Best Proteolitic Enzymes x 2-3

>

> Now Super Digestive Enzymes x 2 with each meal

>

> Now Rhodiola 500mg x 1

>

> LEF Super Zeaxanthan x 1

>

> My ND injected 500mg then 1000mg Glutathione in December

>

> Recently ceased supplements

>

> Bio identical DHEA caps 25mg p/d ceased 6th July 10

>

> Bio identical Testosterone cream ceased 21st May 10

>

> ALA

>

> Chelorex x 16 (for metals chelating) Vit E, C, Selenium

>

> Evening Primrose oil 3 caps (ceased)

>

> Indolplex

>

> EstroSense

>

> Chrysin cream 5%

>

> Chrysin cream 10%

>

> ExtremeY x 1 tab, mens mix includes Ashwaganda 300mg, Ginsengs, Ginko

> etc (Ceased on Vals advice re Korean ginseng and Ginko as too

> stimulating for struggling adrenal glands)

>

> Testoroid/Erectomax

>

> Licorice Root 1 x 2 p/d from Dec 1st Have replaced with Now brand

>

> Herbs of Gold Stress Ease

>

> Recently ceased supplements that may have been hindering iron absorption

>

> pHour Salts alkalising salts copious amounts in water consisting of

> calcium, sodium ,magnesium and potassium bicarbonates

>

> Longevinex x 1 caps Resveratrol, quercetin, phytate and grape seed mix

>

> Vit D continue to take but may have some effect with Calcium on iron

> absorption???

>

> Green tea within 4 hours of iron and meals.

>

> Note as a mostly vegetarian, by definition I consume mostly vegetables

> which I now understand contain phytates that hinder iron absorption.???

>

> Symptoms

>

> Very cold hands and feet, worse in winter to the point of

> " stinging " ,

>

> fine tremor throughout entire body always present, recent occasional

> tightness in the neck area, sunken cheeks, very gaunt sickly facial

> appearance, dark circles under eyes, dry nostrils sometimes, episodes

> of higher Blood pressure last year but low BPs in more recent times

> along with raised pulse, low serum free testosterone not reacting to

> supplementation, night sweats sometimes, unable to put on /maintain

> weight despite 3000kcal diet and regular weights workouts, exceptionally

> poor thin skin quality beyond age related expectation, eyes cloudy not

> clear, rapidly thinning hair, outer 1/3rd eyebrows gone, lower back pain

> sometimes feels like maybe kidney pain?? , Quite often I feel a general

> unwell feeling and I am not thriving despite all the considerable effort

> with lifestyle, exercise and diet. Recent 10k race sent my HR to 209

> when previously it would only reach 175 to 180max

>

> I must add that at this stage I do not have a lot of the seriously

> debilitating symptoms that a lot of folk here and the other forums seem

> to suffer from thankfully. I go to sleep reasonably easy most nights and

> pretty much sleep through for 7 to 8 hours (some nights a bathroom visit

> is required) but I do not wake refreshed but rather sluggish actually.

>

> I am a regular runner and I am able to do this and remain competitive

> without overly undue exhaustion or air hunger although this seems to be

> getting more difficult in recent times. But maybe this is because I have

> been stopping some of my runs and have replaced some with walks so as

> not to overtax my adrenals so they can heal, hopefully. I am not

> diabetic, depressed, manic, brain fogged on drugs of any kind or

> suffering from any formally identified illness. I have never had any

> known problem with my Thyroid until I discovered the RT3 site and

> started researching and testing….thankfully. Although in the back of

> my mind I had harboured a question mark over my Thyroid for some time.

>

> So it would seem that I have RT3 resistance in the cells , sluggish

> Adrenals, low ferritin, high SHBG, high Estradiol and low free

> Testosterone, mid range Total Testosterone and maybe low cortisol as

> well as low Aldosterone, sodium and potassium.???. Not withstanding that

> my main problems as outlined above under " Symptoms " are severe

> enough that they impact negatively on my quality of life and I

> absolutely need to fix them…with your help, I function sort of ok on

> a daily basis but I am very concerned about my Estradiol levels and my

> unwell gaunt appearance is sending a message.

>

> For the last 2 years or so I have been using both bio identical DHEA,

> Chrysin cream and Testosterone cream in an effort to normalize my sex

> hormone levels. Whilst the DHEA did seem to work with good results I was

> concerned about the greater inbalance that this was creating with the

> free Testosterone which was not rising.

>

> So I have decided to cease all of these until I fully address my

> suspected Adrenal/RT3 problem as I suspect that this issue may also be

> somewhat contributing to the mid range DHEA and low free Testosterone

> and high SHBG and especially my latest high Estradiol (at 192 or 52.3)

>

> But that's only my thoughts , what do others think?

>

> My theory is that my thyroid is probably somewhat normal in producing

> T4/T3 but the main problem is the mis-conversion of T4 to RT3 due to 20

> years of vegetarianism contributing to chronic low ferritin levels plus

> the significant stress upon me in the last 5 years (which is when my

> main symptons first manifested) combining to produce my resistance in

> the cell receptors?

>

> My aim is to support my adrenals hopefully with only Adaptogens and

> vitamin supplements, continue to raise my ferritin levels with iron

> tabs, clear my RT3 with T3 only in 12 to 16 weeks or so then wean off

> the T3 after clearance allowing my then supported adrenals and increased

> ferritin levels to promote normal function of conversion of T4 to T3 by

> my thyroid?

>

> I enclose the results of my last 2 Saliva tests in July and September

> 2010

>

> Salivary Cortisol 19th July 2010 and

> 13th Sept

>

> 8am 43.2 H (6.0 – 42.0 nmol/L)

> 34.3

>

> Midday 3.4 (0.0 – 11.0 nmol/L)

> 7.4

>

> 4pm 3.8 (2.0 – 11.0 nmol/L)

> 3.3

>

> 8pm 3.2 (1.0 – 8.0 nmol/L)

> 0.8

>

> Daily total 53.6 (11.0 – 76.0 nmol/L)

> 46.8

>

> Midnight 3.1 (0.0 – 5.0 nmol/L)

> 3.0

>

> Melatonin Midnight 10 (10 – 40 pg/mL)

> 6.0

>

> Androgens

>

> DHEAS am 7.3 (5.0 – 30.0 nmol/L)

> 6.7

>

> DHEAS/Cortisol am ratio 0.17 L (0.20 – 0.60 ratio)

> 0.2

>

> Testosterone 370 (100 – 720

> pmol/L)

>

> Progesterone (P4) 139 < 159pmol/L

>

> Estrogens

>

> Estradiol (E2) 5.0 <6 pmol/L

> 3.0

>

> Estrone (E1) 23.0 H (9.6 – 20.0

> pg/mL) 25.0

>

> Estriol (E3) <1.0 (0.00 – 25.0)

> pg/mL <1.0

>

> E3/ [E2+E1] 0.04 L >1.0 Ratio

> 0.04

>

> P4/E2 Ratio 27.8 (4.0 – 108.0

> Ratio)

>

> Note I had been taking Ashwaganda 300mg plus other ingredients contained

> in my " Nutra Life Extreme Y " Male supplement up to 24 hours

> prior to the July test but not for the September test.

>

> These below were part of the July test results of urine

>

> Urine Spot

>

> Creatinine Urine Spot 4.6 (6.5 – 15.0) mmol/L

>

> Urine Iodine 73 ug/L

>

> Urine Iodine corrected 140.4 ug/gCR

>

> Notes: Normal iodine status >100ug Iodine /g creatinine

>

> Urine 24 hour

>

> Testosterone, urine 0.9 (0.6 – 2.2) umol/24h

>

> I also include some of my blood test history through 2010

>

> Blood tests

>

> Feb-10

>

> May-10

>

> Jun-10

>

> July/Aug/ Sept/Oct/Nov/Dec 10

>

> Component

>

> Range

>

> S & N Labs

>

> Testosterone total

>

> 10--33

>

> 24

>

> 22

>

> 18.6

>

> 24 22 21 22

>

> Testosterone free

>

> 40-100

>

> 42

>

> 29

>

> 28 20 19 18

>

> Testosterone free calc

>

> 260-740

>

> 265

>

> Oestradiol

>

> 40-250

>

> 162

>

> 131

>

> 89

>

> 155 155 122 150 192

>

> DHEA

>

> 300-2700

>

> 1600

>

> 2300

>

> 1300 1300

>

> SHBG

>

> 13-71

>

> 57

>

> 59

>

> 60 56 81 79

>

> 17 OH Pregnenolone

>

> 0.0-10.0

>

> 5.5

>

> Hydroxy-Progesterone

>

> 0.2--1.8

>

> 1.3

>

> DHT

>

> 3.19

>

> Prolactin

>

> <15

>

> 5

>

> 5

>

> Luteinizing hormone

>

> 3--20

>

> 5

>

> 5

>

> Follicle Stimulating

>

> 3--20

>

> 17

>

> 17

>

> Cotrisol 24 hour urine

>

> 80-590

>

> Cortisol

>

> 190-610

>

> 320

>

> 360

>

> 450 530 520 470 370

>

> ACTH

>

> 5--50

>

> 21

>

> 24

>

> 22 43 32 29

>

> Adrenaline

>

> <1.0

>

> 0.2

>

> Noradenaline

>

> <3.5

>

> 5.9+

>

> Normetadrenaline free

>

> <900

>

> 308

>

> Metadrenaline free

>

> <500

>

> 145

>

> HbA1c

>

> <6

>

> PSA

>

> <3.20

>

> 0.48

>

> 0.52

>

> 0.38 0.45

>

> Cholesterol

>

> 3.9-7.4

>

> 5.1

>

> 4.5

>

> 4.7 4.9 4.2 4.7 4.6

>

> Triglycerides

>

> 0.3-2.2

>

> 0.5

>

> 0.6

>

> 0.5 0.6 0.5 0.4 0.4

>

> ESR

>

> 1--20

>

> 1

>

> Serum Ferritin Assay

>

> 20-320

>

> 48

>

> 42

>

> 60 / 40

>

> 61 55 55 60 57 66

>

> Iron

>

> 10--33

>

> 18

>

> 29

>

> 17 / 18

>

> 32 25 24 25 16 13

>

> Transferrin IBC

>

> 45 - 70

>

> 69 / 61

>

> 71 68 59 64 61 61

>

> Transferrin Saturation %

>

> 16 - 50

>

> 25 / 29

>

> 45 37 41 39 26 21

>

> Serum Vit B12 Assay

>

> 162-811

>

> 888+

>

> 354

>

> 453

>

> 902+

>

> Red cell Magnesium

>

> 5.2-7.5

>

> 5.4

>

> Serum zinc

>

> 19

>

> 16

>

> Glucose

>

> 3-6 fasting

>

> 5.3

>

> 5.4

>

> 5.3

>

> Homocysteine

>

> 0.0-15.0

>

> 7

>

> 11

>

> 8.1

>

> 6.7

>

> Vitamin D 25hydroxy

>

> 50-300

>

> 160

>

> 160

>

> 140 120 140

>

> Albumin

>

> 35-50

>

> 43

>

> 41 43 45

>

> Globulins

>

> 20-40

>

> 27

>

> 24 24 25

>

> Renin

>

> 3 -- 40

>

> 32

>

> 64+ 22 31 44

>

> Aldosterone

>

> 100-950

>

> 190

>

> 440 250 210 280

>

> Aldosterone/Renin ratio

>

> 2--75

>

> 6

>

> 7 11 7 6

>

> Red Cell Folate Assay

>

> 545-3370

>

> 869

>

> 556

>

> 2343

>

> 1113

>

> THS

>

> 0.4-4.00

>

> 1

>

> 0.7

>

> 1.1

>

> 0.9 0.1 0.3 0.07

>

> Free T4

>

> 10 - 20

>

> 17

>

> 19 13 13 11

>

> Free T3

>

> 2.8 - 6.8

>

> 5

>

> 4.8 5.9 4.8 6.8

>

> Anti Thyroglobulin Ab

>

> <60

>

> 39

>

> 42 22

>

> Anti Thyroid Peroxidase Ab

>

> <60

>

> 18

>

> 43 53

>

> Red Cell Porphryn

>

> 0--900

>

> 430

>

> 530

>

> Reverse T3

>

> 170--450

>

> 462+

>

> 449

>

> 540+

>

> Serum Leptin

>

> 2.0 - 5.6

>

> 2.4

>

> Sodium

>

> 137 - 147

>

> 142

>

> 140

>

> 140 138 139 138

>

> Potassium

>

> 3.5 - 5.0

>

> 4.4

>

> 4.4

>

> 4.8 4.3 4.5 3.9

>

> Calcium

>

> 2.25- 2.65

>

> 2.46

>

> 2.43

>

> 2.64 2.49 2.37 2.49

>

> Billirubin Total

>

> 2 -- 20

>

> 17

>

> 23+

>

> 21 18 22 14

>

> Billirubin Direct

>

> 0 -- 8

>

> 7

>

> 6

>

> Questions

>

> 1. Am I hopefully on the right track with the DIM, Super MiraForte and

> other supplements targeting improvements in the sex hormones??

>

> 2. What else do I need to do and what has been the experience of those

> here with any of the above supps?

>

> 3. Are any of my vast array of supplements etc likely to be working

> against me?

>

> 4. I am unsure of my real iodine status (despite spot test) so have

> stayed away from most identified iodine but not sure if this is the

> right approach or the wrong approach so any suggestions might be

> helpful.

>

> 5. Does anyone know how to safely increase my Aldosterone levels or how

> much Licorice is safe to take and for how long?

>

> 6. It seems that taking salt for low sodium may contribute in driving

> Aldosterone down so how do I raise sodium, Aldosterone, potassium and

> also keep calcium from elevating?

>

> I am open to all comments and will very much welcome your input on any

> aspect of the above as I feel I am now desperately struggling with all

> this and can't really see my way forward.

>

> Forgive me for the length of this post but I just need to get everything

> out there for completeness.

> The big question is what do I do now? Hopefully I will receive some

> valuable advice and guidance from this informed community.

>

> Kindest regards and warmest thanks

>

> Wayne

>

January 13, 2011

Well after reading this novel it sounds like you are on anything but

rollerskates. There is alot of conflicting information here which needs to be

sorted out. First of all people that are chasing rt3 are only making your life

more miserable. By increase t3 you are going to push up your shbg making your

bio T plummet. You need to have proper adrenal support before going on thyroid

meds which in your case is making matters worse. Low ferritin due to your poor

diet is causing you not to use your thyroid meds. Even at 18 mgs of a day that

is not going to do anything to get your levels up. Most vegetarians have poor

digestion and leaky gut due to inflammation of the intestinal wall from all the

grains, gluten, and legumes which are highly inflammatory in the first place. It

appears to me some one who ever is treating you is taking you to the cleaners

and doing more damage then good along with taking your money. How about we look

for why your rt3 is high which few factors which the Dr should have picked up

since they are literally smacking him in the face. I can assure you have

adrenals issues, digestive issues, liver pathways imbalances, high inflammation,

ect which needs to be resolved before thyroid meds should have even been

considered. This dr means well but is not using good medical judgment on proper

treatment protocol.