Latest test results

[Guest guest]

Hi - well, you can thank your lucky stars that they have

given you a diagnosis, but you could have more knowledgeable doctors. Your GP

is correct in that you probably will need to raise your levothyroxine - they

should be treating your symptoms and signs and NOT your blood test results.

Heaven help us, how DID they manage to treat hypothyroidism before the blood

tests were manufactured? You sound as if you need an increase of 25 mcgs and

personally, I would NOT be waiting another year to have another blood

test and to see whether I need an increase in levothyroxine. I would do it now,

myself - and then telephone the doctor to say that because your TSH is 3.45

(and because you know that in America, the top of the TSH reference range is

3.0 - and that because you know the top of the reference range in Germany and

Belgium is 2.5 with a recommendation this be lowered still further to 1.5 - and

because you know that people feel best with a TSH around 1.0) you felt the need

to increase your thyroxine to help bring your TSH down.

I have learned that it pays to be assertive - many doctors are

pleased when their patients take the initiative - those doctors who are not

pleased should not be touched with a barge pole. Tell him that you are very

aware that should you get palpitations, dizziness, sweating, feeling hypERt,

that you know this is a result of taking too much, and would go down to 50

mcgs. However, I doubt you would experience that, and will probably need

another increase in 3 months time. The reason why we have so many members is

because they are not regaining their normal health within the NHS and come to

us to find out why, and what they can do to help themselves.

Are you taking 200mgs Selenium daily and 2/3mgs vitamin C. Have

you asked your GP to test your B12, vitamin D3, ferritin, magnesium, zinc and

copper? Have you been tested to see if you have low adrenal reserve or systemic

candidiasis. By increasing your levothyroxine, see if the rash starts to

disappear on your arms.

Good luck

Luv - Sheila

Honestly, I do feel a lot better than I did 6 months ago, which is a wonderful

feeling - but I know that I am still 'not quite right'.

I am only querying this with you guys as the last time I went to see my GP was

because the horrid rash that I had on my arms had come back and I queried the

whole antibodies thing with him - he felt that the rash was NOTHING at all to

do with antibodies, but did say that I would probably end up having my dose of

Eltroxin increased to 100/150mg as I was only on 50mg and that is a starting

dose - but they would wait for blood test results to come back.

I was under the impression that my GP should be aiming for an optimum TSH of

between 1-2? Is this right? Or should I just thank my lucky stars that they

finally agreed I had an underactive thyroid and at least I am being treated??

No virus

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18:19:00

[Guest guest]

On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:50:14 +0100, you wrote:

>. Heaven

>help us, how DID they manage to treat hypothyroidism before the blood tests

>were manufactured?

A lot better than they do now!!!!!

Nick

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila,

Now that my blood tests results have come back 'ok' they are not going to

increase the Eltroxin, so I will remain on 50mg. As far as I am now aware I will

go back in August 2010 for another blood test....

I THINK they have tested everything else, but this was several months ago - and

at that time the only thing that came back questionable was my ferritin levels,

they were in range just - but at the very low end of the range, so again at that

time no further action was considered necessary.

I have not heard of Selenium - so I will google that in a moment

[Guest guest]

Hi

What do they mean by your blood tests have come back OK.

You need to get the results from your doctor together with the reference range

for each of the tests and post them here so we can tell whether they are OK or

not. If results are returned from the laboratory and they are within the

reference range, a doctor will tell you they are OK, but we need to know

whether they are at the bottom, the middle or the top of the reference range -

this does make a difference. They should not assume that 50 mcgs is going

to be sufficient for you for the next twelve months, if they have started you

on thyroxine, they should be monitoring you every three months to see whether

your symptoms are going, not just whether your blood tests are normal.

I am VERY serious when I say you need to get your GP to test

your ferritin level, B12, Vitamin D3, magnesium, zinc and iron. These tests are

vital because if any of them are low, your thyroxine will not help you. Go

here to find out about Selenium and its importance http://thyroid.about.com/library/weekly/aa072000a.htm

Luv - Sheila

Now that my blood tests results have come back 'ok' they are not going to

increase the Eltroxin, so I will remain on 50mg. As far as I am now aware I

will go back in August 2010 for another blood test....

I THINK they have tested everything else, but this was several months ago - and

at that time the only thing that came back questionable was my ferritin levels,

they were in range just - but at the very low end of the range, so again at

that time no further action was considered necessary.

I have not heard of Selenium - so I will google that in a moment

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I nearly choked on my cuppa tea when I read that the doc said your results were

OK and were going to leave you on 50mcg for a year !!!!! what the..............

The usual dose of thyroxine is 100-125mcg but we are all individuals.

Did the doc tell you not to take iron within 4 hours of your meds and avoid the

dreaded SOY - we need to check packets its put in everything.

Anecdotly hypos report that they feel best when their TSH is 1 or under and the

freeT3 and FreeT4 is just above mid range. Ferritan needs to be 70 - so 'OK

and low' range is just not going to get your health back. If you have to pay

for private blood tests it will be a good investment.

Zinc, iron, copper etc is 'vital'

Learning to read your own blood test results is the best gift you can give

yourself and I think if you spend some time here you will be able to educate

your docs. politely ask for a printed copy of all blood tests and track your

progress. As Shelia has already advised, you need to be tested every few months

until your symptoms are gone.

F

> Hi

>

>

>

> What do they mean by your blood tests have come back OK. You need to get

> the results from your doctor together with the reference range for each of

> the tests and post them here so we can tell whether they are OK or not. If

> results are returned from the laboratory and they are within the reference

> range, a doctor will tell you they are OK, but we need to know whether they

> are at the bottom, the middle or the top of the reference range - this does)

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Group,

I got my results back from my blood work done a week ago. I have been on

injections of T-CYP 200mg/ml @ 1cc/weekly (as prescribed). I split that dose

into 2 shots of 1/2cc (100mg each) every Monday and Thursday of the week. After

further reading I adjusted my shots to 80mg every 3 days which works out real

close the same amount in a 30 day period. I was taking DIM every 3 days as well.

My test results were:

Testosterone, Total 1263 (241-827 NG/DL)

Estradiol, Ultrasensitive 68 (< OR = 29 pg/mL)

My blood was drawn 4 days after my last shot.

My DR changed my T-CYP dose to 1/2cc/week based on my lab work. I will be

injecting 1/4cc (50mg) every 3 days. I will also be taking DIM every day for a

while and gage that by what my body says. My labs will be redone in 6 weeks.

Question: By lowering the dose to half of what I was doing, plus splitting into

2 shots/week, that alone should help lower the Estradiol, right? I would still

continue with DIM and see what the results were in 6 weeks.

I asked him about Arimidix and HCG and he said he didn't know anything about it

for TRT and said he would refer me to an Endo if I wanted. I declined that for

now.

[Guest guest]

,

I did the same as you are doing, from 200/week to 100/week (split into 2 shots)

and it is much better.

I don't inject every 3 days, I inject 50mg on Saturday and 50 mg on Tuesday. 

That way I am getting 100mg week, not 100mg every six days.  This is what my

doc told me to do. 

Bill

________________________________

From: master_trancer <master_trancer@...>

Sent: Wed, June 2, 2010 9:19:09 AM

Subject: Latest test results

 

Hi Group,

I got my results back from my blood work done a week ago. I have been on

injections of T-CYP 200mg/ml @ 1cc/weekly (as prescribed). I split that dose

into 2 shots of 1/2cc (100mg each) every Monday and Thursday of the week. After

further reading I adjusted my shots to 80mg every 3 days which works out real

close the same amount in a 30 day period. I was taking DIM every 3 days as well.

My test results were:

Testosterone, Total 1263 (241-827 NG/DL)

Estradiol, Ultrasensitive 68 (< OR = 29 pg/mL)

My blood was drawn 4 days after my last shot.

My DR changed my T-CYP dose to 1/2cc/week based on my lab work. I will be

injecting 1/4cc (50mg) every 3 days. I will also be taking DIM every day for a

while and gage that by what my body says. My labs will be redone in 6 weeks.

Question: By lowering the dose to half of what I was doing, plus splitting into

2 shots/week, that alone should help lower the Estradiol, right? I would still

continue with DIM and see what the results were in 6 weeks.

I asked him about Arimidix and HCG and he said he didn't know anything about it

for TRT and said he would refer me to an Endo if I wanted. I declined that for

now.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I do 80 mgs every 3 days and the day before my next T shot I do 250 IU's of HCG.

My range with Quest is 1100 top of the range. My last test came back 850 so

your on the high side but to cut your dose in half.

I did this on one lab test and crashed bad labs mess up my labs are never the

same from test to test. I do labs every 8 weeks last test was 750.

Your going to keep your Estradiol levels down cutting your dose in half but you

might not feel good. I don't and if you switch to Arimidex starting with .5 mgs

every other day this will come down faster and it's a small price to pay having

to take Arimidex and keep your T levels higher.

It's best to cut back 10 mgs per shot this would be 70 mgs then retest in 8

weeks. If still to high cut back 10 more mgs. Doing this is better then

crashing.

Don't go to see an Endo or Uro they are not good Dr.'s for this your Dr. knows

more then they do tell him this men here have bad stories about seeing them.

Tell him BCBS pays for Arimidex and more men use this to keep E2 down then

women.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: master_trancer <master_trancer@...>

> Subject: Latest test results

>

> Date: Wednesday, June 2, 2010, 9:19 AM

> Hi Group,

>

> I got my results back from my blood work done a week ago. I

> have been on injections of T-CYP 200mg/ml @ 1cc/weekly (as

> prescribed). I split that dose into 2 shots of 1/2cc (100mg

> each) every Monday and Thursday of the week. After further

> reading I adjusted my shots to 80mg every 3 days which works

> out real close the same amount in a 30 day period. I was

> taking DIM every 3 days as well.

>

> My test results were:

>

> Testosterone, Total 1263 (241-827 NG/DL)

> Estradiol, Ultrasensitive 68 (< OR = 29 pg/mL)

>

> My blood was drawn 4 days after my last shot.

>

> My DR changed my T-CYP dose to 1/2cc/week based on my lab

> work. I will be injecting 1/4cc (50mg) every 3 days. I will

> also be taking DIM every day for a while and gage that by

> what my body says. My labs will be redone in 6 weeks.

>

> Question: By lowering the dose to half of what I was

> doing, plus splitting into 2 shots/week, that alone should

> help lower the Estradiol, right? I would still continue with

> DIM and see what the results were in 6 weeks.

>

> I asked him about Arimidix and HCG and he said he didn't

> know anything about it for TRT and said he would refer me to

> an Endo if I wanted. I declined that for now.

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

Don't go to the Endo if you want to hCG or Arimidex. Most of them are not

only clueless about it but they are mostly opposed to it's use. Brett

Latest test results

> Hi Group,

>

> I got my results back from my blood work done a week ago. I have been on

> injections of T-CYP 200mg/ml @ 1cc/weekly (as prescribed). I split that

> dose into 2 shots of 1/2cc (100mg each) every Monday and Thursday of the

> week. After further reading I adjusted my shots to 80mg every 3 days which

> works out real close the same amount in a 30 day period. I was taking DIM

> every 3 days as well.

>

> My test results were:

>

> Testosterone, Total 1263 (241-827 NG/DL)

> Estradiol, Ultrasensitive 68 (< OR = 29 pg/mL)

>

> My blood was drawn 4 days after my last shot.

>

> My DR changed my T-CYP dose to 1/2cc/week based on my lab work. I will be

> injecting 1/4cc (50mg) every 3 days. I will also be taking DIM every day

> for a while and gage that by what my body says. My labs will be redone in

> 6 weeks.

>

> Question: By lowering the dose to half of what I was doing, plus splitting

> into 2 shots/week, that alone should help lower the Estradiol, right? I

> would still continue with DIM and see what the results were in 6 weeks.

>

> I asked him about Arimidix and HCG and he said he didn't know anything

> about it for TRT and said he would refer me to an Endo if I wanted. I

> declined that for now.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for all the responses, I appreciate it.

For right now I am going to continue as prescribed by my doc and redo labs in 4

1/2 weeks and will post them again.

AS far as going to an Endo, I dont believe I will do that. If I need to get

another doctor I will be looking myself. I have already looked in the database

and there isnt anything close to me within reason but I will find one.

I know my doc wont prescribe the Arimidix or HCG, we have already been thru

that. If it looks like I will have to get it after my next bloodwork, I know

what I can do for it.

Thanks again

>

> Hi Group,

>

> I got my results back from my blood work done a week ago. I have been on

injections of T-CYP 200mg/ml @ 1cc/weekly (as prescribed). I split that dose

into 2 shots of 1/2cc (100mg each) every Monday and Thursday of the week. After

further reading I adjusted my shots to 80mg every 3 days which works out real

close the same amount in a 30 day period. I was taking DIM every 3 days as well.

>

> My test results were:

>

> Testosterone, Total 1263 (241-827 NG/DL)

> Estradiol, Ultrasensitive 68 (< OR = 29 pg/mL)

>

> My blood was drawn 4 days after my last shot.

>

> My DR changed my T-CYP dose to 1/2cc/week based on my lab work. I will be

injecting 1/4cc (50mg) every 3 days. I will also be taking DIM every day for a

while and gage that by what my body says. My labs will be redone in 6 weeks.

>

> Question: By lowering the dose to half of what I was doing, plus splitting

into 2 shots/week, that alone should help lower the Estradiol, right? I would

still continue with DIM and see what the results were in 6 weeks.

>

> I asked him about Arimidix and HCG and he said he didn't know anything about

it for TRT and said he would refer me to an Endo if I wanted. I declined that

for now.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

One way to find a new Dr. is call Compounding pharmacies and ask for the number

to the Dr.'s in your area that buy from them. Then call this Dr. and ask

questions like about Arimidex and HCG.

http://www.collegepharmacy.com/menshealth/andropause.asp

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: master_trancer <master_trancer@...>

> Subject: Re: Latest test results

>

> Date: Wednesday, June 9, 2010, 1:08 AM

> Thanks for all the responses, I

> appreciate it.

>

> For right now I am going to continue as prescribed by my

> doc and redo labs in 4 1/2 weeks and will post them again.

>

> AS far as going to an Endo, I dont believe I will do that.

> If I need to get another doctor I will be looking myself. I

> have already looked in the database and there isnt anything

> close to me within reason but I will find one.

>

> I know my doc wont prescribe the Arimidix or HCG, we have

> already been thru that. If it looks like I will have to get

> it after my next bloodwork, I know what I can do for it.

>

> Thanks again

>

>

> >

> > Hi Group,

> >

> > I got my results back from my blood work done a week

> ago. I have been on injections of T-CYP 200mg/ml @

> 1cc/weekly (as prescribed). I split that dose into 2 shots

> of 1/2cc (100mg each) every Monday and Thursday of the week.

> After further reading I adjusted my shots to 80mg every 3

> days which works out real close the same amount in a 30 day

> period. I was taking DIM every 3 days as well.

> >

> > My test results were:

> >

> > Testosterone, Total 1263 (241-827 NG/DL)

> > Estradiol, Ultrasensitive 68 (< OR = 29 pg/mL)

> >

> > My blood was drawn 4 days after my last shot.

> >

> > My DR changed my T-CYP dose to 1/2cc/week based on my

> lab work. I will be injecting 1/4cc (50mg) every 3 days. I

> will also be taking DIM every day for a while and gage that

> by what my body says. My labs will be redone in 6 weeks.

> >

> >  Question: By lowering the dose to half of what I

> was doing, plus splitting into 2 shots/week, that alone

> should help lower the Estradiol, right? I would still

> continue with DIM and see what the results were in 6 weeks.

> >

> > I asked him about Arimidix and HCG and he said he

> didn't know anything about it for TRT and said he would

> refer me to an Endo if I wanted. I declined that for now.

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Miriam,

I am a little confused..... are you the same Miriam who is a long-standing member here? I remember meeting you some years back at a Yorkshire conference and I was under the impression that you'd been taking NDT for years....- or do we have 2 Miriam's ?? Sorry for my asking, but I am a little thrown by getting the impression below that you are new to the "thyroid game" and have just started out.... apologies if I've muddled it all up – but here is my reply anyway.....

I got my latest test results back today, and an increase from 25mcg thyroxine to 50mcg.

The GP did say today that once my TSH goes down to 10 she won't increase my thyroxine any further. That doesn't seem logical to me as the reference range is 0.27 - 4.2.

WHAT ?!?!?! Run a mile, Miriam. This woman knows zilch about thyroid conditions. You won't be able to educate her; my advice: cut your losses and run..... TSH 15 mu/mL (0.27-4.2)Free T4 16.8 (12.0-22.0)Folate 11.5 mg/L (4.4-20.0)Ferritin 125 mg/L (29-470)Vitamin B12 965 pg/mL (180-900)Vitamin D 80 nmol/L (levels above 75 nmol/L are optimal)

As for Vit D – Levels above 75 are not optimal – they should be closer to 100

Vit B12 is good

Ferritin looks ok (but you may still be low in iron)

Folate should be nearer the top

Your FT4 is very likely not an accurate figure as it does not correspond with the very high TSH – I assume that autoantibodies have been artificially elevating the figures. Have your thyroid antibodies (TPO, TgAB) ever been tested? – if not, it's very overdue.

.... and lastly, the TSH .... is much, much too high. It should be down below 1.... so you are not there yet by a long shot – not even close!I still have abnormal red blood cells:Red blood cell count 5.63 (3.80-5.30)Mean corp haemoglobin 24.2 (27.0-32.0)Mean corp volume 74.1 (80.0-100.0)This means I have a greater than average number of red blood cells, but they areof smaller than average size. Is this thyroid related? Or does anyone knowwhat might cause it when there is no anaemia? (My son has the same problem).

Sorry, but I only speculate about this – Your low MCV might suggest iron deficiency (not stored iron), and your low haemoglobin yet high RBC might suggest some bone marrow dysfunction, but I am really guessing here; and yes, it is very likely all thyroid related – thyroid hormone helps to produce RBCs, and judging by your TSH you are clearly very deficient in thyroid hormone.

I believe that your FT4 figure is a red herring. You need to get your thyroid antibodies tested (TPO and TgAB)and for good measure FT3 and rT3 as well.... I am wondering if rT3 is blocking thyroid hormone from entering your cells. I am also wondering if your adrenals are too weak to support thyroid hormones at present.... in other words, you may need to go back to basics – support the adrenals, rule out any other possible culprits (the usual list) and then get some thyroid hormone into your body in some form. Which kind of thyroid hormone you need (T4, NDT or T3 only) will depend on what the entire picture shows and whether or not you have rT3.

Whatever it is you need to get sorted out, I doubt if you will get it from this GP who is telling you she will not increase your thyroxine when your TSH is down to 10.... unbelievable, really ...

Best wishes,

[Guest guest]

Hi , and thanks very much for commenting on my test results.

Yes, I am the Miriam you met a couple of years ago at the conference in

Yorkshire. At the time I was trying NDT, but I didn't get very far with it and

Dr P suggested I try T3. I also ran into difficulties with that, so I am now

trying thyroxine. Really I should have done things the other way round, but I

couldn't get any recognition of my illness from the NHS until just recently.

From my 24-hour urinary test, and Free T4 and Free T3 tests I have had in the

past, I wouldn't say I had a conversion problem, so I am giving it a try.

You are right about the Free T4, as the GP had told me to take my thyroxine on

the morning of the test. I told her about Professor Weetman's comments on this,

but she dismissed his advice with some comment about him being a researcher - ie

he is being too pernickity. She said that she couldn't believe that the time

you took your thyroxine would matter because when she contacted endocrinologists

about patients who didn't respond to thyroxine they never asked about what time

the patients had taken their tablets in relation to their blood test. It is

worrying that she should consider such anecdotal evidence more weighty than

research.

I don't have Hashimotos - that has been checked for on several occasions. The

start of my illness coincided with organophosphate poisoning (from nit shampoo

containing malathion). I know that this affects hormones and enzymes in the

body, but I haven't been able to find out much information about it. If anyone

knows any more, I'd be grateful for pointers to research on the subject.

I have had my adrenals checked and treated. I am currently supporting them and

Dr P keeps an eye on their status for me.

I agree with you that it is amazing the GP is prepared to leave people with a

TSH of 10. In January 2006 I had a test showing that my TSH was 5.5 (range 0.2

to 4.0). Dr Myhill wrote to my GPs practice saying that I was hypothyroid, but

the doctor I saw at the time just dismissed her opinion out of hand. :-( They

might well all have this policy of dismissing test results until they are

greater than 10.

Miriam

> I am a little confused..... are you the same Miriam who is a

> long-standing member here?

>

> TSH 15 mu/mL (0.27-4.2)

> Free T4 16.8 (12.0-22.0)

> Folate 11.5 mg/L (4.4-20.0)

> Ferritin 125 mg/L (29-470)

> Vitamin B12 965 pg/mL (180-900)

> Vitamin D 80 nmol/L (levels above 75 nmol/L are optimal)

>

> As for Vit D – Levels above 75 are not optimal – they should be

> closer to 100

[Ed]

[Guest guest]

By the way, I forgot to ask, do we have any scientific papers showing that most

healthy people have a TSH of around 1?

Thanks,

Miriam

> ... and lastly, the TSH .... is much, much too high. It should be down below

1.... so you are not there yet by a long shot – not even

> close!

[Guest guest]

I spoke to the biochemist at my local hospital and asked if taking thyroxine on the morning of the test would make any difference and she said 'none at all'.

Make of that as you will.

Lilian

You are right about the Free T4, as the GP had told me to take my thyroxine on the morning of the test. I told her about Professor Weetman's comments on this, but she dismissed his advice with some comment about him being a researcher -

[Guest guest]

It was January 2006 when I had the test showing TSH of 5.5 (range 0.4-4.0) which

no-one except Dr Myhill would pay any attention to, and our own dear Dr P of

course!

I first fell ill in 1990 when I was aged 36, and I am now 57 and have only just

received a NHS diagnosis. Back when I was first ill I was seeing a

gastroenterologist. He suspected I was hypothyroid, but as my TSH was 'normal',

he didn't follow it up. I don't know what my lab test results were from back

then.

Around 2000 I presented my then GP with my complete list of symptoms on one

occasion, and his reaction was to ask if I'd had my thyroid tested. However,

with a'normal' TSH he couldn't give me a diagnosis.

I recently completed the questionnaire for the survey mentioned on the British

Thyroid Foundation website. I was able to tick off almost every symptom on the

list for hypothyroidism, and I have had these since 1990. This shows that I am

a classic case of hypothyroidism, except for my TSH. So my illness has been

undiagnosed for 21 years.

http://www.btf-thyroid.org/index.php?option=com_content & view=article & id=220 & Item\

id=281

Miriam

> How many years of your life have been lost to ill health Miriam because NHS

doctors have no idea how to diagnose and treat those with symptoms of

hypothyroidism?

> Luv - Sheila

[Guest guest]

Yes, they are now in the FILES SECTION under the FOLDER entitled

'Thyroid References' Miriam, only this one is 319 KB!

Luv - Sheila

Thanks very much, Sheila. That will keep me

busy! Is that in our Files section somewhere? It says " Message truncated,

over 24K " . It would be nice to see the rest too.

Miriam

[Guest guest]

Hello Miriam,

I told her about Professor Weetman's comments on this,but she dismissed his advice with some comment about him being a researcher – ie he is being too pernickity. She said that she couldn't believe that the time you took your thyroxine would matter because when she contacted endocrinologists about patients who didn't respond to thyroxine they never asked about what time the patients had taken their tablets in relation to their blood test. It is worrying that she should consider such anecdotal evidence more weighty than research.You know, Berthold Brecht, a German writer and philosopher, once said:

"Unsichtbar wird der Wahnsinn, wenn er genügend große Ausmaße angenommen hat." ("Madness on a large enough scale becomes invisible") .... and when I read remarks like that, Brecht's words echo in my head....

You do not even need to have studied medicine to appreciate the stupidity of what she said. You just need to use common sense. How can it possibly NOT matter, when the whole idea is to measure a hormone in the body that needs to be replaced on a daily basis because it gets constantly used up? Our doctors really have a lot to learn and I for one wish they would get on with it. They should take a leaf out of the veterinary text books. Our vets at least are ahead of the game. THEY know that the time of administering thyroxine is crucial to evaluating the correct thyroid levels and you have a 2 hour window 4-6 hours after pill administration to draw blood for a test. I am not saying it's the same for humans (it isn't), as there are different metabolisms to consider, but the principle is the same.

I don't have Hashimotos - that has been checked for on several occasions.

OK, I hear you... but to the best of my knowledge – whilst a positive count of TPO and/or TgAB (or TSI) is diagnostic for autoimmune thyroiditis, the lack of a positive count does not rule it out.... in the words of Datis Kharrazian "Because the immune system fluctuates, a person with Hashimoto's may produce a negative antibodies test. If I see negative test results et suspect the person has the disorder, I will repeat the test. If the person is already on a gluten-free diet, I will have them consume wheat for 2 weeks and then repeat the test. Once you see a positive antibody test, you have confirmed and auto-immune thyroid condition...." But regardless of whether you have autoimmune thyroiditis or `just' thyroiditis, your body is deprived of thyroid hormones and something needs to be done about it ...

At the time I was trying NDT, but I didn't get very far with it and Dr P suggested I try T3. I also ran into difficulties with that, so I am now trying thyroxine.

You haven't explained what those difficulties were.... did you get thyrotoxic on either by any chance? And how do you feel now on Levothyroxine? –better? -worse? – the same as on NDT or T3? Do you sometimes feel hyper and sometimes hypo? Have TSI antibodies ever been tested or has Hashitoxicosis ever been considered? .... I am probably clutching at straws here, but there must be a reason why thyroid medication apparently does not have the desired effect with you.

Best wishes,

[Guest guest]

Hi . Many thanks for your further comments.

I completely agree about the vets, and farmers too for that matter. They seem

far more knowledgeable than doctors. Perhaps it is because, for them, money is

at stake if they can't keep animals in a good condition. Doctors seem more

concerned with saving money than providing optimal treatment.

I happened to mention to my uncle, a farmer, that I had magnesium deficiency,

and he really appreciated how serious that was, saying it led to a condition

called " the staggers " in cows. Most doctors don't seem to understand the

importance of a good nutritional status at all.

I have read Datis Kharrazian's book and know that he seems to think most

hypothyroid people have autoimmune disease. However, Dr Mark Starr believes the

most common cause of hypothyroidism is cellular resistance. They cannot both be

right. But, as you say, the main thing is that I need the condition treating.

When I was taking Armour, at about 2 grains I became shaky so that I could not

thread a needle, for example. Dr P thought that indicated a conversion problem.

In retrospect, it might not have been, because I later discovered that I had the

low stomach acid problem, so was malnourished. It took almost a year to correct

that.

In the meantime I tried Cytomel, but as I increased the amount my pulse and

blood pressure were climbing too high, so I had to reduce the amount I was

taking.

In both cases I experienced some slight benefit when I started taking the

tablets, but didn't get any further improvement as I made increases. I expect I

never reached the " sweet spot " in either case.

As for the thyroxine, as I have been on such a miniscule dose for 2 months (25

mcg), it is not surprising that I haven't noticed anything yet. The GP is going

to increase by 25 mcg every 2 months, so I reckon it might be over 6 months

before I notice anything at all.

No, I don't ever feel hyper, just hypo. I am aware of all the thyroid

co-factors and try to keep an eye on them. My mercury-free dentist said that my

cholesterol was too low, so I don't have enough raw material to make hormones.

He suggested eating lots of eggs and butter, which I have been doing. However,

from what I have read, it is the liver that regulates cholesterol levels. I am

not really sure how to encourage my liver to create more cholesterol.

Miriam

> Our doctors really have a lot to learn and I for one wish they would get on

with it. They should take a leaf out of the

> veterinary text books.

[Ed]

[Guest guest]

Hi Miriam,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MicroRNA

(just 'scan' it for general information)

MicroRNAs may hold some of the answers to problems experienced that don't have instantaneous answers.

Whilst I'm trying to get my head around this subject ( very close to Myhill's work) ~ my inference is that they (researchers) have a long way to go before definitive answers can be given.

There is a lot of work going on to investigate exactly which miRNA does what ~ switching genes on and off, guiding their transport, degradation etc

Recently, Colin Dayan's group showed that transporter molecules (eg MCT8) and associated problems account for some of the adverse events/symptoms arising in hypothyroid patients, to the extent of about 15% of sufferers.

The survey carried out in 2005/6 showed about 78% of respondents did not recover their former optimum good health by just T4 treatment, so one could estimate that a much higher proportion of those responding hypothyroid patients exerperience signs/symptoms and adverse events characteristic of unaccounted 'systems failure'.

I came across the enzyme that destroys Thyroid Releasing Hormone (TRHDE) and noted that it occurs in organs/tissues that one would not expect to find it, after all, the only place one would expcct to see it would be in the pituitary ! so what 'job' is it (TRH) doing in all those other locations or does the same enzyme also take other peptides to pieces ~ quite likely?

Bob

[probably not very helpful ~ but worth knowing about the ubiquitous nature of 'mummy's-little-helpers' ~ 'm'(i)RNAs ]

>> I got my latest test results back today, and an increase from 25mcg thyroxine to 50mcg. I had been quite worried as I had followed the GPs instructions and taken my daily dose on the morning of the test, but thankfully my TSH was still above the reference range.

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Bob, that's interesting. Please keep us posted about how the research

develops.

Miriam

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MicroRNA

> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MicroRNA>

>

> (just 'scan' it for general information)

>

> MicroRNAs may hold some of the answers to problems experienced that

> don't have instantaneous answers.

>

> Whilst I'm trying to get my head around this subject ( very close to

> Myhill's work) ~ my inference is that they (researchers) have a long

way to go before definitive answers can be given.

>

> There is a lot of work going on to investigate exactly which miRNA does what ~

switching genes on and off, guiding their transport, degradation etc

>

> Recently, Colin Dayan's group showed that transporter molecules (eg

> MCT8) and associated problems account for some of the adverse

> events/symptoms arising in hypothyroid patients, to the extent of about 15% of

sufferers.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Sally, and thanks for your suggestions. I was very amused by your story

about the cows and could just imagine you wrestling with them.

My mercury-free dentist ran a whole battery of nutritional tests for me before

changing my fillings (only 2 small ones), and it was he who discovered my

cholesterol was too low. He followed the Hal Huggins protocol for mercury

removal, and I have been taking various things for liver support.

Yes, I had liver function tests done privately several years back. They showed

heavy metal toxicity from cadmium, nickel and mercury, so for years I have been

doing all kinds of detoxifying regimes (including Far Infra Red sauna), and

taking liver support. I followed Dr Myhill's protocol for nickel detoxification

and have done everything I could to sort out the problem. I suppose I am due

for some retests to see what progress I have made. To be honest, I wonder

whether my detoxification is poor because I haven't yet had my thyroid

adequately treated.

Miriam

> That is odd about your cholesterol.  How do you know you cholesterol is low

since for many hypothyroids it is high?  Yes diet doesnt necessarily have an

effect on cholesterol.  You need to have good nutrition and you could

suppplement coQ10 so the raw material doesnt get diverted to make that. 

Support your liver have you had LFT's?  If so are they OK.  Silymarin Milk

Thistle is a good liver support and also Dandelions...you can buy dandelion

coffee which helps.  I use the green leaves by sweeating them in butter and

eating them as you would spinach with food as a vegetable.