Finally saw the new endo this AM,.......................

[Guest guest]

There are so many folks here that I am sure to have been forgotten by and

large,.....maybe Phil remembers my situation.

Anyway I went to a female endo today, and laid out all my thoughts about this.

She seemed to go along with about 90% of them.

Anyway this is what she ordered for bloodwork,......keep in mind that I also

have thyroid issues in the family genes.

1. Testosterone panel that Phil suggested, Quest #14966

2. Estrogen, Quest #4021

3. ACTH plasma

4. Cortisol AM

5. Iron, TIBC and Ferritin panel

6. TSH 3rd. generation

7. T3 and T4 free

8. B12/Folate serum panel

Anyway,.....I tried for all of the thyroid tests including anti-bodies but she

gave me a bunch of verbal blah-blah about why that wasn't needed unless

something came back wrong on what she ordered. Same thing with Total T3 and T4.

Could not get her to change her mind.

I had to make clear that I wanted my estrogen checked, and I would simply leave

if she would not order it. At first she tried the typical 'estrogen is no major

concern in men' routine, but I explained it correctly and since she had to agree

she ordered the test I wanted.

I didn't get 100% of what I wanted, but this will be the most extensive testing

I have had to date. Another good thing IMHO was the fact that she agreed about

my LH being in the lower 1/3 of normal with a previous total T of 209 was not

correct, and tended to indicate either that I am secondary, OR that I have

elevated estrogens after we hashed that subject out.

Brett Savage,......if you happen to read this let me know. I was a lot rougher

on her than you were bud! LOL

Also I had no idea the little black haired doc was gonna examine my testicles

either, but she did!

Anybody that can chime in on what you think of these tests is appreciated. I

hope to have some answers soon,.......I am so tired of feeling this way.

[Guest guest]

Dr.'s do this with labs they look for a trend the add more labs there after.

Doing this keeps them out of trouble with BCBS and makes them more money having

you come back.

Still this is a good start.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...>

> Subject: Finally saw the new endo this

AM,.......................

>

> Date: Thursday, August 12, 2010, 12:34 PM

> There are so many folks here that I

> am sure to have been forgotten by and large,.....maybe Phil

> remembers my situation.

>

> Anyway I went to a female endo today, and laid out all my

> thoughts about this. She seemed to go along with about 90%

> of them.

> Anyway this is what she ordered for bloodwork,......keep in

> mind that I also have thyroid issues in the family genes.

>

> 1. Testosterone panel that Phil suggested, Quest #14966

> 2. Estrogen, Quest #4021

> 3. ACTH plasma

> 4. Cortisol AM

> 5. Iron, TIBC and Ferritin panel

> 6. TSH 3rd. generation

> 7. T3 and T4 free

> 8. B12/Folate serum panel

>

> Anyway,.....I tried for all of the thyroid tests including

> anti-bodies but she gave me a bunch of verbal blah-blah

> about why that wasn't needed unless something came back

> wrong on what she ordered. Same thing with Total T3 and T4.

> Could not get her to change her mind.

>

> I had to make clear that I wanted my estrogen checked, and

> I would simply leave if she would not order it. At first she

> tried the typical 'estrogen is no major concern in men'

> routine, but I explained it correctly and since she had to

> agree she ordered the test I wanted.

>

> I didn't get 100% of what I wanted, but this will be the

> most extensive testing I have had to date. Another good

> thing IMHO was the fact that she agreed about my LH being in

> the lower 1/3 of normal with a previous total T of 209 was

> not correct, and tended to indicate either that I am

> secondary, OR that I have elevated estrogens after we hashed

> that subject out.

>

> Brett Savage,......if you happen to read this let me know.

> I was a lot rougher on her than you were bud! LOL

> Also I had no idea the little black haired doc was gonna

> examine my testicles either, but she did!

>

> Anybody that can chime in on what you think of these tests

> is appreciated. I hope to have some answers soon,.......I am

> so tired of feeling this way.

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

I was hoping you would see this Phil.

I pressed her hard on all the things I have learned here, and insisted on those

two tests you mentioned.

As before,.....it will be the most extensive I have ever had done so I will live

with it for now. The challenge will come if my estrogen is high and I ask for a

blocker, or if it is normal and I ask for a Clomid challenge test to prove that

I am secondary.

We shall see.

[Guest guest]

You never know you might have got her thinking.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...>

> Subject: Re: Finally saw the new endo this

AM,.......................

>

> Date: Thursday, August 12, 2010, 1:28 PM

> I was hoping you would see this

> Phil.

> I pressed her hard on all the things I have learned here,

> and insisted on those two tests you mentioned.

>

> As before,.....it will be the most extensive I have ever

> had done so I will live with it for now. The challenge will

> come if my estrogen is high and I ask for a blocker, or if

> it is normal and I ask for a Clomid challenge test to prove

> that I am secondary.

>

> We shall see.

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes Marc, but did you ask her about hCG?

Glad you got more out of her than I did she scarred me out of the room

in 5 minutes. LOL Maybe I would have hung around longer if I had known

she wanted to get my zipper down like she did with you. LOL

I am doing OK with Dr. Wong he started me on HC about a week ago for my

adrenal fatigue and I am doing a lot better now than I was then.

I figured the " she devil " (LOL) could test you, find out why your were

low as you hadn't started therapy yet. Now whether you get the therapy you

want after the testing ???? Arimidex? hCG? I don't know anyone else

that will RX you those around here either. I did find out that there are

two " Body Logic " doctors in Orlando. Both women. What do you all think are

these Body Logic doctors any good at this TRT? Anyone go too them for TRT?

Brett

Re: Finally saw the new endo this

AM,.......................

>I was hoping you would see this Phil.

> I pressed her hard on all the things I have learned here, and insisted on

> those two tests you mentioned.

>

> As before,.....it will be the most extensive I have ever had done so I

> will live with it for now. The challenge will come if my estrogen is high

> and I ask for a blocker, or if it is normal and I ask for a Clomid

> challenge test to prove that I am secondary.

>

> We shall see.

[Guest guest]

My doctor, a female, checked mine before I started on any treatment. I

feel like it was a good thing, probably checking for the possibility of

cancer, since I have had one removed because of cancer.

Bob

In a message dated 8/13/2010 12:01:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

pmgamer18@... writes:

The first thing a new Dr. would do is check my testis and some of them were

female Dr.'s this should tell you they are good Dr.'s they can tell if you

have cancer or if they are not working.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: marc200134470 <_cfs38@..._ (mailto:cfs38@...) >

> Subject: Re: Finally saw the new endo this

AM,.......................

> _ _

(mailto: )

> Date: Friday, August 13, 2010, 11:54 AM

> Brett,.......I don't know anything

> about the Body Logic docs, but I have heard of them. I guess

> it couldn't hurt to try!

>

> I did mention Arimidex, Clomid, and HCG. She really didn't

> say anything other than to get the testing done first.

> Figure I may try the D.O. I mentioned next if she won't do

> anything but TRT. Heck I might be able to get my

> cardiologist to prescribe the stuff after he gets all the

> blood work and I tell him that she won't try me on anything

> but T replacement.

>

> She did make one comment that discouraged me. She asked me

> why I did not start the Testim when the urologist prescribed

> it, and that I should have. I kind of said " duh,......how

> could I find out what is causing my problem if I did that? "

> She said " OK, I understand. " Figured that should be pretty

> clear by itself.

>

> The exam was a little weird. We talked first about symptoms

> and family history, and then she had me lie down on the

> table. She pulled my shirt out of my pants by herself, and

> looked at my chest and abdomen and rubbed her hand over my

> upper chest like she was feeling my hair I guess? I did say

> that my body hair seemed to be thinning though earlier.

> Right after that she asked me to unzip my pants and that

> she wanted to examine my testicles. I was kind of surprised

> but since I'm not shy I complied. I must say I was a little

> surprised at that since I have not heard anyone here talk

> about having their testicles felt up before. LOL

>

> Whatever,.......we shall see what happens going forward. I

> assume that ACTH test is about the adrenals?

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Links

>

>

> _ -fullfeatured _

(mailto: -fullfeatured )

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Brett,.......I don't know anything about the Body Logic docs, but I have heard

of them. I guess it couldn't hurt to try!

I did mention Arimidex, Clomid, and HCG. She really didn't say anything other

than to get the testing done first.

Figure I may try the D.O. I mentioned next if she won't do anything but TRT.

Heck I might be able to get my cardiologist to prescribe the stuff after he gets

all the blood work and I tell him that she won't try me on anything but T

replacement.

She did make one comment that discouraged me. She asked me why I did not start

the Testim when the urologist prescribed it, and that I should have. I kind of

said " duh,......how could I find out what is causing my problem if I did that? "

She said " OK, I understand. " Figured that should be pretty clear by itself.

The exam was a little weird. We talked first about symptoms and family history,

and then she had me lie down on the table. She pulled my shirt out of my pants

by herself, and looked at my chest and abdomen and rubbed her hand over my upper

chest like she was feeling my hair I guess? I did say that my body hair seemed

to be thinning though earlier.

Right after that she asked me to unzip my pants and that she wanted to examine

my testicles. I was kind of surprised but since I'm not shy I complied. I must

say I was a little surprised at that since I have not heard anyone here talk

about having their testicles felt up before. LOL

Whatever,.......we shall see what happens going forward. I assume that ACTH test

is about the adrenals?

[Guest guest]

The first thing a new Dr. would do is check my testis and some of them were

female Dr.'s this should tell you they are good Dr.'s they can tell if you have

cancer or if they are not working.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...>

> Subject: Re: Finally saw the new endo this

AM,.......................

>

> Date: Friday, August 13, 2010, 11:54 AM

> Brett,.......I don't know anything

> about the Body Logic docs, but I have heard of them. I guess

> it couldn't hurt to try!

>

> I did mention Arimidex, Clomid, and HCG. She really didn't

> say anything other than to get the testing done first.

> Figure I may try the D.O. I mentioned next if she won't do

> anything but TRT. Heck I might be able to get my

> cardiologist to prescribe the stuff after he gets all the

> blood work and I tell him that she won't try me on anything

> but T replacement.

>

> She did make one comment that discouraged me. She asked me

> why I did not start the Testim when the urologist prescribed

> it, and that I should have. I kind of said " duh,......how

> could I find out what is causing my problem if I did that? "

> She said " OK, I understand. " Figured that should be pretty

> clear by itself.

>

> The exam was a little weird. We talked first about symptoms

> and family history, and then she had me lie down on the

> table. She pulled my shirt out of my pants by herself, and

> looked at my chest and abdomen and rubbed her hand over my

> upper chest like she was feeling my hair I guess? I did say

> that my body hair seemed to be thinning though earlier.

> Right after that she asked me to unzip my pants and that

> she wanted to examine my testicles. I was kind of surprised

> but since I'm not shy I complied. I must say I was a little

> surprised at that since I have not heard anyone here talk

> about having their testicles felt up before. LOL

>

> Whatever,.......we shall see what happens going forward. I

> assume that ACTH test is about the adrenals?

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Bob,.....it was no big deal to me.

I should have added though that during the 'interview' part, I told her the

urologist had checked my testicles and even sent me for a testicular ultrasound

due to some tenderness I was having in my right one.

Must have just been something pulled per se, because it showed nothing abnormal.

Also he said my testicles were plenty large and toward the higher end of normal

size. I had told him I felt like they were getting smaller, and still feel that

way regardless of what he said.

I figured due to that she would skip it.

Probably just being thorough, which is good.

[Guest guest]

Any updates yet Mark?

I just scheduled a virtual appointment with Dr. . I want some more blood

work done.

I've changed my lifestyle for a over a month. Doing super cardio workouts.

Losing weight, eating healthy.

Still don't feel the same as prior to TRT and Nolvadex.

I'll know more soon.

Marc

PS: For those who don't know my situation,I'm almost 27, I had super high

natural levels of T, wanted to do steroids, went to a TRT doc, got T cream, did

for 2.5 weeks, then took Nolvadex to restart system, haven't been the same

since. I've had mad blood work and a urine panel, but still not a 100% Its

been about a year since the incident.

Urine panel did indicate I was a hyper excreter of T.

I hope all you guys are making progress and feeling good.

I've been MIA for a while....

>

> Bob,.....it was no big deal to me.

> I should have added though that during the 'interview' part, I told her the

urologist had checked my testicles and even sent me for a testicular ultrasound

due to some tenderness I was having in my right one.

>

> Must have just been something pulled per se, because it showed nothing

abnormal. Also he said my testicles were plenty large and toward the higher end

of normal size. I had told him I felt like they were getting smaller, and still

feel that way regardless of what he said.

>

> I figured due to that she would skip it.

> Probably just being thorough, which is good.

>

[Guest guest]

Marc are you feeling any better yet.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Marc M <MisterX225@...>

> Subject: Re: Finally saw the new endo this

AM,.......................

>

> Date: Friday, August 20, 2010, 11:46 PM

>

> Any updates yet Mark?

>

> I just scheduled a virtual appointment with Dr. . 

> I want some more blood work done.

>

> I've changed my lifestyle for a over a month.  Doing

> super cardio workouts.  Losing weight, eating healthy.

>

> Still don't feel the same as prior to TRT and Nolvadex.

>

> I'll know more soon.

>

> Marc

>

> PS:  For those who don't know my situation,I'm almost

> 27, I had super high natural levels of T, wanted to do

> steroids, went to a TRT doc, got T cream, did for 2.5 weeks,

> then took Nolvadex to restart system, haven't been the same

> since.  I've had mad blood work and a urine panel, but

> still not a 100%  Its been about a year since the

> incident. 

>

> Urine panel did indicate I was a hyper excreter of T. 

>

>

> I hope all you guys are making progress and feeling good.

>

> I've been MIA for a while....

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> > Bob,.....it was no big deal to me.

> > I should have added though that during the 'interview'

> part, I told her the urologist had checked my testicles and

> even sent me for a testicular ultrasound due to some

> tenderness I was having in my right one.

> >

> > Must have just been something pulled per se, because

> it showed nothing abnormal. Also he said my testicles were

> plenty large and toward the higher end of normal size. I had

> told him I felt like they were getting smaller, and still

> feel that way regardless of what he said.

> >

> > I figured due to that she would skip it.

> > Probably just being thorough, which is good.

> >

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hey Mark!

Good to hear from you Buddy!

I look forward to seeing the results of your blood work.

I'm doing all right. College started today, between school, work, and

Muay Thai, I'm super busy.

I might actually become an amateur muay thai figther. Maybe in 6 months

or so.

I feel like since I'm getting back in shape (where I train, its like

military style) I keep feeing better and better.

I've been having lots of problems with Dr. Crisler's office. Some Rxs

never got filled, although I paid. I paid for a virtual visit, never heard

back (its still early). I know they are backed up, so I'll just call again.

He does have lots of patients.

But I will get retested soon. Maybe in 2-3 months.

Ultimately, I think after everything, I'm just not producing the same

amount of T as before. I had super high levels of T, now they are just high.

I am taking ZMA and copper, trying to get my body back the way it was. It

has been about a year since the incident. I was also taking vit. b

injections, I don't really know the difference when I'm on it or not. Maybe

like

a rush for a few minutes.

In summary, if you mess with your body, you have to suffer the

consequences. I learned this lesson. But I still think there is hope for me

to

regain some T I lost. Just need more time.

Keep me posted on the lab work. Sounds like your Endo is pretty good.

- Marc

In a message dated 8/30/2010 11:32:39 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

cfs38@... writes:

>

>

> Any updates yet Mark?

>

> I just scheduled a virtual appointment with Dr. . I want some more

blood work done.

>

> I've changed my lifestyle for a over a month. Doing super cardio

workouts. Losing weight, eating healthy.

>

> Still don't feel the same as prior to TRT and Nolvadex.

>

> I'll know more soon.

>

> Marc

I just got the time today to get my blood drawn at Quest. Work is killing

me.

I go back to see her 9/10, and guess I will get the results then.

They sure drew a lot of blood this time! Most I have ever had taken at one

time.

I sure hope they run the right tests,.......I mentioned those 2 numbers

several times. You can be sure I will be posting my results as soon as I get

my hands on a copy after that visit.

Glad you are at least feeling some better!

[Guest guest]

>

>

> Any updates yet Mark?

>

> I just scheduled a virtual appointment with Dr. . I want some more blood

work done.

>

> I've changed my lifestyle for a over a month. Doing super cardio workouts.

Losing weight, eating healthy.

>

> Still don't feel the same as prior to TRT and Nolvadex.

>

> I'll know more soon.

>

> Marc

I just got the time today to get my blood drawn at Quest. Work is killing me.

I go back to see her 9/10, and guess I will get the results then.

They sure drew a lot of blood this time! Most I have ever had taken at one time.

I sure hope they run the right tests,.......I mentioned those 2 numbers several

times. You can be sure I will be posting my results as soon as I get my hands on

a copy after that visit.

Glad you are at least feeling some better!

[Guest guest]

I am really giving this Muay Thai 150% of my effort. I think it helps me

with stress and is just getting me in good cardio shape.

I am just thinking that the more I train, the better shape I get it, I

could return to the way I was before what happened. The body can heal itself.

I will get some tests redone in due course. In the mean time, I'm gonna

keep fighting the good fight! =]

Please keep us posted with every thing!

Good luck!

Marc

In a message dated 8/30/2010 3:07:57 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

cfs38@... writes:

Marc,.....all I can say is you have a lot more energy than me it seems! LOL

You are a young one though, and I could do almost anything at your age.

Enjoy it while you can my friend, as it can leave you with very short

warning.

I played HS baseball, and football, as well as some amateur boxing into my

mid twenties. Never got into the martial arts, but wish I would have now.

I became quite proficient with 'nunchaku' though, and can still do fairly

well with them.

Sounds like what you are doing is helping you. I am sure you will feel

better with time,.....this stuff doesn't change overnight for the good you

realize. I wouldn't over do things though, but that is just me.

Listen to your own body!

I have not been posting much due to the fact I am still in a holding

pattern. I will know more than ever before on 9/10 though.

You should enjoy this one about doctors.

Today I received a certified letter from the Urologist that I saw last

year dropping me as a patient.

He was the one that wanted to start me on Testim in February of this year.

I told them I never filled the scrip due to problems with my insurance

company so I canceled my follow-up that was scheduled for April. I wasn't

taking the stuff, nor did I have more blood-work done so I figured why go back

now?

About a month ago I got a call from his office wanting to setup an

appointment,.....I asked for what?

Ended up telling them that I would come back after seeing this endo, and

getting the blood work she would surely order. His nurse said that was fine.

Guess it wasn't to the doc though. I can hardly wait to see what happens

when ObamaCare comes into play. I guess he wanted his money every 3 months

from me one way or the other, and didn't care for the fact that I was not

interested in starting TRT without more tests being done, much less the costs

had I paid for Testim out of pocket.

Seems that things are always fun! )

[Guest guest]

Marc,.....all I can say is you have a lot more energy than me it seems! LOL

You are a young one though, and I could do almost anything at your age.

Enjoy it while you can my friend, as it can leave you with very short warning.

I played HS baseball, and football, as well as some amateur boxing into my mid

twenties. Never got into the martial arts, but wish I would have now. I became

quite proficient with 'nunchaku' though, and can still do fairly well with them.

Sounds like what you are doing is helping you. I am sure you will feel better

with time,.....this stuff doesn't change overnight for the good you realize. I

wouldn't over do things though, but that is just me.

Listen to your own body!

I have not been posting much due to the fact I am still in a holding pattern. I

will know more than ever before on 9/10 though.

You should enjoy this one about doctors.

Today I received a certified letter from the Urologist that I saw last year

dropping me as a patient.

He was the one that wanted to start me on Testim in February of this year. I

told them I never filled the scrip due to problems with my insurance company so

I canceled my follow-up that was scheduled for April. I wasn't taking the stuff,

nor did I have more blood-work done so I figured why go back now?

About a month ago I got a call from his office wanting to setup an

appointment,.....I asked for what?

Ended up telling them that I would come back after seeing this endo, and getting

the blood work she would surely order. His nurse said that was fine.

Guess it wasn't to the doc though. I can hardly wait to see what happens when

ObamaCare comes into play. I guess he wanted his money every 3 months from me

one way or the other, and didn't care for the fact that I was not interested in

starting TRT without more tests being done, much less the costs had I paid for

Testim out of pocket.

Seems that things are always fun! )