Re: So I officially have low T

[Guest guest]

Hi Jim and Welcome,

Here is how I feel about this first yes going on TRT is for life and some men on

TRT can still make a baby. But you need to test your sprim first to see if it's

still good. If it is have some forzen for a back up.

I feel one needs a lot of tests to see why your low before going on TRT. If you

find out why your low and you can fix it your levels will come back up.

Can you get a copy of the labs you had and post them.

Here is a link to my story you need to read this it was a dam long road for me

seeing the wrong kind of Dr.'s. It took me 23 yrs on TRT not feeling 100% to

figure out why I was low. For me it was a head injury that damaged my Pituitary

it's called Hypopituitary and is Secondary Hypogonadism. For 23 of the 30 yrs I

have been on TRT I was told I am Primary meaning my Testis don't work. I was

told this by Uro.'s and Endo's.

Read my story at this link.

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/stories-of-others/phils-story/

I don't feel seeing Endo's and Uro's are the best way to treat the dam near all

of them are not up on TRT or it's testing.

You need to get these tests.

----------------------------------------------------

If you have lost your libido, have ED, feel fatugued, have brain fog, have

feelings of Deprossion just don't feel your self then do get these labs.

You need a full panel of labs done and then see what you need to treat. Also

read this site.

This is taken from Dr. 's site at www.allthingsmale.com in TRT: A Recipe for

Success.

• Total Testosterone

• Bioavailable Testosterone (AKA " Free and Loosely Bound " )

• Free Testosterone (if Bioavailable T is unavailable)

• DHT

• Estradiol (specify the Extraction Method, or " sensitive " assay for

males)

• LH

• FSH

• Prolactin

• Cortisol first do this test in blood a morning fasting test if your low

below 15 then do a saliva test.

• Thyroid Panel doing the following labs.

* TSH But this lab is only for diagnosis of hypopituitary, NOT to diagnose or

dose your hypo by.

* Free T4 and Free T3 (note the word “freeâ€)

* Total T4 and T3.

* Thyroid Antibodies (anti-TPO and TgAb. YOU NEED BOTH.)

* Ferritin (and do stress FERRITIN, not just RBC)

* Adrenals Cortisol levels (but we strongly recommend saliva tests, not the one

time blood test your doctor will do. See below, because you don’t need a

prescription)

* B-12, estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, DHEA

* Reverse T3

• CBC

• Comprehensive Metabolic Panel

• Lipid Profile

• PSA (if over 40)

---------------------------------------------------

There are so dam many things that can lower your T levels I would be here all

day listing them and most Dr.'s unless you press them will not look. Just

because you test low does not mean you need to treat this with Testosterone.

Doing this shuts down your HPTA (hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis) and

once you do this it's not likely your going to start back up stoping TRT.

Here is a good Dr. in your area he is treating some of the men here. Here is a

copy of a post by one of the men with a link to this Dr.

Natrajan he is a Reproductive Dr. and Specializing in Hormone Replacement

Therapy.

---------------------------------------------------

It has been a long time since I visited and mentioned pellets.

My experience with pellets goes back to 1991 when I started receiving 20 - 75 mg

pellet under the skin on my hip below my belt every 4 months.

The dosage goes back to Dr. Greenblatt who pioneered in hormone therapy as early

as the 1950'w. Many of his journal articles still exist on the internet. Men who

are no longer above 250 T should have their T elevated to above 800 to receive

the full benefit of the therapy.

Based on weight, subtract 30 pounds from the patients total weight and then for

every 10 pounds remaining he should receive a 75 mg pellet. The body stops

producing its own source of T when this starts and the pellets are the total

source of T.

Now 78 working at Lowe's in the electrical department feeling great.

You can not feel great unless your level is over 800 IMHO.

I have lost 2 endocrinologists due to their age, beginning in 1991 with Dr. Sipi

of N. Bergen, NJ then Dr. Gambrell of Augusta, GA. Now being treated Dr.

Natrajan also of Augusta (same office) who also treats patients in Atlanta on

Fridays.

I care for his web site:

http://Natrajan.on-theweb.com

---------------------------------------------------

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: jjmill0 <no_reply >

> Subject: So I officially have low T

>

> Date: Saturday, February 12, 2011, 10:20 AM

> I am 35 years old and found out

> randomly that I have low T, a second lab has confirmed

> it.  My T taken first thing in the morning was 210.25

> L.

>

> It all makes sense now. About 6 months ago I was PC

> referred me to a psychiatrist because I was complaining

> about ADD symptoms being worse (was diagnosed much younger

> but never medicated).  They did a days worth of testing

> from IQ to memory and determined I did not have ADD but

> anxiety and depression.  Of course, now knowing I have

> low T explains those symptoms. I also have been very moody

> and easily agitated by the end of the day (which drives my

> wife crazy).

>

> So here's the problem, I would like to have more kids, but

> the urologist says I can't start Androgel if I intend to

> have kids because it will make me infertile. I can't keep

> feeling the way I do.  Has anyone started HRT and still

> been able to conceive? 

>

> More questions:

>

> I work out regularly and have an ability to maintain

> muscle?  I am not huge, but muscular and defined. 

> How is that possible if I have low T?  Will I see any

> difference with my work outs?

>

> Also, once I start am I going to be on HRT all my

> life?  I believe it's expensive and a hassle to

> apply. 

>

> What if I start and I don't notice a difference, am I worse

> off then before?

>

> Will I lose my hair if I am already suffering from male

> pattern baldness?

>

>

> I am so confused as to what to do.  The doctor told me

> to think about it and set up an appointment with him if I

> decide that I want to pursue this.

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jim and welcome also. Phil, this is yet another debate.. How can Sperm be

properly analyzed..

Some docs say be off of TRT for 1-4 months while others may disagree. Can't FH

and FSH levels be a good determination of sperm levels?

So I officially have low T

I am 35 years old and found out randomly that I have low T, a second lab has

confirmed it. My T taken first thing in the morning was 210.25 L.

It all makes sense now. About 6 months ago I was PC referred me to a

psychiatrist because I was complaining about ADD symptoms being worse (was

diagnosed much younger but never medicated). They did a days worth of testing

from IQ to memory and determined I did not have ADD but anxiety and depression.

Of course, now knowing I have low T explains those symptoms. I also have been

very moody and easily agitated by the end of the day (which drives my wife

crazy).

So here's the problem, I would like to have more kids, but the urologist says I

can't start Androgel if I intend to have kids because it will make me infertile.

I can't keep feeling the way I do. Has anyone started HRT and still been able to

conceive?

More questions:

I work out regularly and have an ability to maintain muscle? I am not huge, but

muscular and defined. How is that possible if I have low T? Will I see any

difference with my work outs?

Also, once I start am I going to be on HRT all my life? I believe it's

expensive and a hassle to apply.

What if I start and I don't notice a difference, am I worse off then before?

Will I lose my hair if I am already suffering from male pattern baldness?

I am so confused as to what to do. The doctor told me to think about it and set

up an appointment with him if I decide that I want to pursue this.

[The entire original message is not included]

[Guest guest]

Most men with low T don't have good sperm so I tell them before you go on TRT

have it tested if it's good get some frozen for a back up. Men can't stop TRT

if they suffer from true Hypogonadism they will crash and burn. I know I was

taken off TRT 7 times every time a Dr. sent me to see an Endo they took me off

TRT and all the found out was how sick they made me. And I am not alone I read

about this everyday at other forums.

If a man is not Primary he can stop TRT and go on HCG 100 mgs / day to keep his

levels up and get his testis working again. If he had good levels of sperm

before going on TRT there is a 50 50 chance he can make a baby.

You see there are a lot of men on TRT that are not Primary or Secondary they had

low T due to an Infection or a fatty liver many things can lower a mans T

levels. Dr. only test it see it's low don't look to see why and put them on

TRT. Later them men find out there T was low do to some thing elses wrong and

try a Restart to see if they can get off TRT. It does not work for all of them

maybe a low % get off TRT.

This is why I tell men not to go on TRT until they know why they are low.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: uu1845@... <uu1845@...>

> Subject: RE: So I officially have low T

>

> Date: Saturday, February 12, 2011, 11:44 AM

> Jim and welcome also. Phil, this is

> yet another debate.. How can Sperm be properly analyzed..

>

> Some docs say be off of TRT for 1-4 months while others may

> disagree. Can't FH and FSH levels be a good determination of

> sperm levels?

>

> So I officially have low T

>

>

> I am 35 years old and found out randomly that I have low T,

> a second lab has confirmed it. My T taken first thing in the

> morning was 210.25 L.

>

> It all makes sense now. About 6 months ago I was PC

> referred me to a psychiatrist because I was complaining

> about ADD symptoms being worse (was diagnosed much younger

> but never medicated). They did a days worth of testing from

> IQ to memory and determined I did not have ADD but anxiety

> and depression. Of course, now knowing I have low T explains

> those symptoms. I also have been very moody and easily

> agitated by the end of the day (which drives my wife

> crazy).

>

> So here's the problem, I would like to have more kids, but

> the urologist says I can't start Androgel if I intend to

> have kids because it will make me infertile. I can't keep

> feeling the way I do. Has anyone started HRT and still been

> able to conceive?

>

> More questions:

>

> I work out regularly and have an ability to maintain

> muscle? I am not huge, but muscular and defined. How is that

> possible if I have low T? Will I see any difference with my

> work outs?

>

> Also, once I start am I going to be on HRT all my life? I

> believe it's expensive and a hassle to apply.

>

> What if I start and I don't notice a difference, am I

> worse off then before?

>

> Will I lose my hair if I am already suffering from male

> pattern baldness?

>

> I am so confused as to what to do. The doctor told me to

> think about it and set up an appointment with him if I

> decide that I want to pursue this.

>

>

>

> [The entire original message is not included]

>

>

[Guest guest]

Good info, however what do men do who are on TRT and what to properly access

sperm? Do we stop, and if so for long without TRT?

RE: So I officially have low T

Most men with low T don't have good sperm so I tell them before you go on TRT

have it tested if it's good get some frozen for a back up. Men can't stop TRT if

they suffer from true Hypogonadism they will crash and burn. I know I was taken

off TRT 7 times every time a Dr. sent me to see an Endo they took me off TRT and

all the found out was how sick they made me. And I am not alone I read about

this everyday at other forums.

If a man is not Primary he can stop TRT and go on HCG 100 mgs / day to keep his

levels up and get his testis working again. If he had good levels of sperm

before going on TRT there is a 50 50 chance he can make a baby.

You see there are a lot of men on TRT that are not Primary or Secondary they

had low T due to an Infection or a fatty liver many things can lower a mans T

levels. Dr. only test it see it's low don't look to see why and put them on TRT.

Later them men find out there T was low do to some thing elses wrong and try a

Restart to see if they can get off TRT. It does not work for all of them maybe a

low % get off TRT.

This is why I tell men not to go on TRT until they know why they are low.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: uu1845@... <uu1845@...>

[The entire original message is not included]

[Guest guest]

It's too late to test your sperm levels on TRT and if you stop you crash.

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> > From: uu1845@...

> <uu1845@...>

>

> [The entire original message is not included]

>

>

[Guest guest]

I understand, the debate is how long should a man be without TRT in order to

check his sperm? Months / years / etc....

RE: So I officially have low T

>

>

> Most men with low T don't have good sperm so I tell them

> before you go on TRT have it tested if it's good get some

> frozen for a back up. Men can't stop TRT if they suffer from

> true Hypogonadism they will crash and burn. I know I was

> taken off TRT 7 times every time a Dr. sent me to see an

> Endo they to

[The entire original message is not included]

[Guest guest]

You can restart the testes with Clomiphene Citrate or HCG. This has been

demonstrated in studies and just because you go on HRT now does not mean that

you cannot have kids later. The fact that you have low test now, though, does

reduce your chances of success but it is indeed possible (especially with the

availability of in-vitro). Unfortunately, if you stop Test therapy and (if you)

restart your testes successfully with Clomiphene that only means that you will

return to your previous low level of test production. There is a correlation

between endogenous (natural) test production and sperm production but you can't

take any of this for granted. Just have to keep trying to find what works for

you. As for the right testosterone level this is an individual matter. Some

people feel great and function just fine at a t level of 250 and others need

800. I need 500 to feel good and anything over that is excess... but that's

just me.

As for exercise and your level of fitness, your comment does not strike me as

odd or usual. The greater part of fitness is the effort that people put into

their workouts and not their level of testosterone. There are countless women

who, with low levels of test as compared to most men, are very fit and trim.

It's because they work at it. Low testosterone in men, though, does make you

feel bad and reduces exercise recovery time so you are to be commended for

staying in good shape despite relatively low levels of testosterone. It can

definitely be done but most Americans are too lazy to put forth the effort. As

for the rest of this stuff, listen to Phil and you won't go wrong. W

>

> > From: uu1845@... <uu1845@...>

>

> [The entire original message is not included]

>

>

[Guest guest]

I don't understand your Questiong men on TRT shut down there HPTA so there

testis are not working. Stoping TRT they are not going to just start back up

and make Testosterone and sperm.

Once you start on TRT forget it.

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> > From: uu1845@...

> <uu1845@...>

> > Subject: RE: So I officially have low

> T

> >

> > Date: Saturday, February 12, 2011, 1:40 PM

> > Good info, however what do men do who

> > are on TRT and what to properly access sperm? Do we

> stop,

> > and if so for long without TRT?

> >

> > RE: So I officially have low

> T

> >

> >

> > Most men with low T don't have good sperm so I tell

> them

> > before you go on TRT have it tested if it's good get

> some

> > frozen for a back up. Men can't stop TRT if they

> suffer from

> > true Hypogonadism they will crash and burn. I know I

> was

> > taken off TRT 7 times every time a Dr. sent me to see

> an

> > Endo they to

>

> [The entire original message is not included]

>

>

[Guest guest]

Phil, please dnt say " forget it " again. My primary status is not my fault. I

still hope I can conceive, so yea sperm and FSH and LH are important to me. When

I find someone how u tell her, its me the problem for cenception?

Nevermind, ill ask on a medical forum. I dnt want to read no one telling me, my

testes are shot due to this or TRT ot HCG. Sorry but you have a family Phil, I

just want that chance.

RE: So I officially have low T

>

>

> It's too late to test your sperm levels on TRT and if you

> stop you crash.

> Co-Moderator

> Phil

>

> --- On Sat, 2/12/11,

[The entire original message is not included]

[Guest guest]

I have my labs and will post them, but it's 3 pages. What should I be posting?

Anything specific or all or it?

[Guest guest]

>

> > From: uu1845@... <uu1845@...>

> > Subject: RE: So I officially have low T

> >

> > Date: Saturday, February 12, 2011, 1:40 PM

> > Good info, however what do men do who

> > are on TRT and what to properly access sperm?

Hi,

well I'm one to talk... I'm 54 and have no natural children of my own... I have

2 wonderful step sons... both in their 20s.

and I didn't have to change either's diapers. :-}

you DO have alternatives if you want the pitter patter of dirty feet.

adopt... there are LOTS of kids that need a good home.

Oher was adopted by my neice's friend/neighbor... but they don't have to

be stars to be good kids... you CAN make a differnce.

if having at least 1 set of genes matters to you you can go AI.

to me that upsets me more than adoption

[Guest guest]

OK so where is the hope Phil in that last response? You have your kids and

loving and supportive family.

Some of us need ideas to take to docs and also to ourselves. What can be done to

see if sperm is being produced? What tests can be taken.

Some of us want a family also Phil and " crashing " is the least thing I worry

about.

RE: So I officially have low T

> >

> > Date: Saturday, February 12, 2011, 1:40 PM

> > Good info, however what do men do who

> > are on TRT and what to properly access sperm?

Hi,

well I'm one to talk... I'm 54 and have no natural children of my own... I have

2 wonderful step sons... both in their 20s.

and I didn't have to change either's diapers. :-}

you DO have alternatives if you want the pitter patter of dirty feet.

adopt... there are LOTS of kids that need a good home.

Oher was adopted by my neice's friend/neighbor... but they don't have

to be stars to be good kids... you CAN make a differnce.

if having at least 1 set of genes matters to you you can go AI.

to me that upsets me more than adoption

[The entire original message is not included]

[Guest guest]

I understand how you feel and don't mean to upset you your Dr. should have gone

over this with you before you started on TRT. If your sperm was good before

going on TRT and you what to make a baby you can try HCG only. But your testis

need to work or you need to be Secondary for you to try this to see if it will

work.

Some men have done this and it worked others were on TRT for some time done

having kids and thinking being on TRT they could not make a baby and did.

All I am saying is in most men needing TRT there sperm was not good to start

with.

I can't tell you what your sperm will look like if you get it tested on TRT.

And I can't say what it will look like if your stop TRT. Most men on TRT can't

stop they crash and feel so bad they can't make it to work.

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> > From: uu1845@...

> <uu1845@...>

> > Subject: RE: So I officially have low

> T

> >

> > Date: Saturday, February 12, 2011, 2:19 PM

> > I understand, the debate is how long

> > should a man be without TRT in order to check his

> sperm?

> > Months / years / etc.... 

> >

> > RE: So I officially have low

> T

> >

> >

> > It's too late to test your sperm levels on TRT and if

> you

> > stop you crash.

> > Co-Moderator

> > Phil

> >

> > --- On Sat, 2/12/11,

>

> [The entire original message is not included]

>

>

[Guest guest]

Here are my labs:

Testosterone, Free and Total (includes SHBG)210.25 ng/Dl

Sex Hormone Binding Globulin 43 nmol/L

Testosterone, Free 33.9 L pg/Ml

Test, % Free 1.6 pg/mL

CBC with Diff

WBC 4.1 K/uL

RBC 5.12 MIL/uL

Hemoglobin 14.9 g/dL

Hematocrit 44.4

MCV 86.7 fL

MCHC 33.6 g/dL

RDW 12.4

Platelet Count 182 K/uL

Granulocyte % 45

Absolute Gran 1.9 K/uL

Lymph % 43

Absolute Lymph 1.8 K/uL

Mono % 10

Absolute Mono 0.4 K/uL

Eos % 1

Absolute Eos 0.1 K/uL

Baso % 1

Absolute Baso 0.0 K/uL

WBC Morphology = Criteria for review not met

RBC Morpholoty = Criteria for review not met

Smear Review = Criteria for review not met

Comprehensive Metabolic Panel

Sodium 137 mEq/L

Potassium 5.3 mEq/L

Chloride 100 mEq/L

CO2 24 mEq/L

Glucose 93 mg/dL

BUN 21 mg/dL

Creatinine 0.86 mg/dL

Bilirubin, Total 0.4 mg/dL

Alkaline Phosphates 61 U/L

AST/SGOT 24 U/L

ALT/SGPR 30 U/L

Total Protein 7.1 g/dL

Albumin 4.7 g/dL

Calcium 9.3mg/dL

LH 5.4 mIU/mL

Prolactin 4.7 ng/mL

> >

> > > From: uu1845@ <uu1845@>

> > > Subject: RE: So I officially have low T

> > >

> > > Date: Saturday, February 12, 2011, 1:40 PM

> > > Good info, however what do men do who

> > > are on TRT and what to properly access sperm?

>

> Hi,

>

> well I'm one to talk... I'm 54 and have no natural children of my own... I

have 2 wonderful step sons... both in their 20s.

>

> and I didn't have to change either's diapers. :-}

>

> you DO have alternatives if you want the pitter patter of dirty feet.

>

> adopt... there are LOTS of kids that need a good home.

>

> Oher was adopted by my neice's friend/neighbor... but they don't have

to be stars to be good kids... you CAN make a differnce.

>

> if having at least 1 set of genes matters to you you can go AI.

>

> to me that upsets me more than adoption

>

>

>

>

> [The entire original message is not included]

>

>

[Guest guest]

You can use this site to scan to them and leave a link here so we can open the

links and read them.

http://imageshack.us/

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: jjmill0 <no_reply >

> Subject: Re: So I officially have low T

>

> Date: Saturday, February 12, 2011, 7:52 PM

>

> I have my labs and will post them, but it's 3 pages. What

> should I be posting?  Anything specific or all or it?

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

I don't understand what your getting at I all ready have kids. You act like

it's my doing you might not be able to have kids. Come on you asked me a

Question I gave you the best answer I could. Don't be mad at me about it.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: uu1845@... <uu1845@...>

> Subject: RE: Re: So I officially have low T

>

> Date: Sunday, February 13, 2011, 9:31 AM

> OK so where is the hope Phil in that

> last response? You have your kids and loving and supportive

> family.

>

> Some of us need ideas to take to docs and also to

> ourselves. What can be done to see if sperm is being

> produced? What tests can be taken.

>

> Some of us want a family also Phil and " crashing " is the

> least thing I worry about.   

>

> RE: So I officially have

> low T

> > >

> > > Date: Saturday, February 12, 2011, 1:40 PM

> > > Good info, however what do men do who

> > > are on TRT and what to properly access sperm?

>

> Hi,

>

> well I'm one to talk... I'm 54 and have no natural

> children of my own... I have 2 wonderful step sons... both

> in their 20s.

>

> and I didn't have to change either's diapers. :-}

>

> you DO have alternatives if you want the pitter patter of

> dirty feet.

>

> adopt... there are LOTS of kids that need a good home.

>

> Oher was adopted by my neice's friend/neighbor...

> but they don't have to be stars to be good kids... you CAN

> make a differnce.

>

> if having at least 1 set of genes matters to you you can

> go AI.

>

> to me that upsets me more than adoption

>

>

>

>

> [The entire original message is not included]

>

>

[Guest guest]

Would taking Finasteride (Propecia) have any affect on my Testosterone?

[Guest guest]

It would help if you had labs for Estradiol, Cortisol, Thyroid and Ferritin.

Your Sodium is on the low side do you drink enough water.

Your LH is about mid range with your T levels at 210 I would think your LH would

be near the top of the range asking from more Testosterone from your Testis.

To me even if your cortisol and Thyroid needed treating I would still treat your

low Testosterone levels.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: jjmill0 <no_reply >

> Subject: Re: So I officially have low T

>

> Date: Sunday, February 13, 2011, 11:33 AM

> Here are my labs:

>

> Testosterone, Free and Total (includes SHBG)210.25 ng/Dl

> Sex Hormone Binding Globulin 43 nmol/L

> Testosterone, Free 33.9 L pg/Ml

> Test, % Free 1.6 pg/mL

> CBC with Diff

> WBC 4.1 K/uL

> RBC 5.12 MIL/uL

> Hemoglobin 14.9 g/dL

> Hematocrit 44.4

> MCV 86.7 fL

> MCHC 33.6 g/dL

> RDW 12.4

> Platelet Count 182 K/uL

> Granulocyte % 45

> Absolute Gran 1.9 K/uL

> Lymph % 43

> Absolute Lymph 1.8 K/uL

> Mono % 10

> Absolute Mono 0.4 K/uL

> Eos % 1

> Absolute Eos 0.1 K/uL

> Baso % 1

> Absolute Baso 0.0 K/uL

> WBC Morphology = Criteria for review not met

> RBC Morpholoty = Criteria for review not met

> Smear Review = Criteria for review not met

>

> Comprehensive Metabolic Panel

> Sodium 137 mEq/L

> Potassium 5.3 mEq/L

> Chloride 100 mEq/L

> CO2 24 mEq/L

> Glucose 93 mg/dL

> BUN 21 mg/dL

> Creatinine 0.86 mg/dL

> Bilirubin, Total 0.4 mg/dL

> Alkaline Phosphates 61 U/L

> AST/SGOT 24 U/L

> ALT/SGPR 30 U/L

> Total Protein 7.1 g/dL

> Albumin 4.7 g/dL

> Calcium 9.3mg/dL

> LH 5.4 mIU/mL

> Prolactin 4.7 ng/mL

>

> >  >

> >  > > From: uu1845@ <uu1845@>

> >  > > Subject: RE: So I

> officially have low T

> >  > >

> >  > > Date: Saturday, February 12, 2011,

> 1:40 PM

> >  > > Good info, however what do men do who

> >  > > are on TRT and what to properly access

> sperm?

> >

> >  Hi,

> >

> >  well I'm one to talk... I'm 54 and have no

> natural children of my own... I have 2 wonderful step

> sons... both in their 20s.

> >

> >  and I didn't have to change either's diapers.

> :-}

> >

> >  you DO have alternatives if you want the pitter

> patter of dirty feet.

> >

> >  adopt... there are LOTS of kids that need a good

> home.

> >

> >  Oher was adopted by my neice's

> friend/neighbor... but they don't have to be stars to be

> good kids... you CAN make a differnce.

> >

> >  if having at least 1 set of genes matters to you

> you can go AI.

> >

> >  to me that upsets me more than adoption

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > [The entire original message is not included]

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

No we have men all over the web that have low Testosterone and Libido problems

from using Propecia.

http://www.propeciasideeffects.com/

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: jjmill0 <no_reply >

> Subject: Re: So I officially have low T

>

> Date: Sunday, February 13, 2011, 12:10 PM

> Would taking Finasteride (Propecia)

> have any affect on my Testosterone?

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

You say no, but then post a link that contradicts your response. Which is it?

>

> > From: jjmill0 <no_reply >

> > Subject: Re: So I officially have low T

> >

> > Date: Sunday, February 13, 2011, 12:10 PM

> > Would taking Finasteride (Propecia)

> > have any affect on my Testosterone?

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Thanks. I will go back to my pcp at see if she can run those labs. Anything else

there that would indicate anything more serious? I don't want to start trt, if

my low levels might be caused by something else?

> > >  >

> > >  > > From: uu1845@ <uu1845@>

> > >  > > Subject: RE: So I

> > officially have low T

> > >  > >

> > >  > > Date: Saturday, February 12, 2011,

> > 1:40 PM

> > >  > > Good info, however what do men do who

> > >  > > are on TRT and what to properly access

> > sperm?

> > >

> > >  Hi,

> > >

> > >  well I'm one to talk... I'm 54 and have no

> > natural children of my own... I have 2 wonderful step

> > sons... both in their 20s.

> > >

> > >  and I didn't have to change either's diapers.

> > :-}

> > >

> > >  you DO have alternatives if you want the pitter

> > patter of dirty feet.

> > >

> > >  adopt... there are LOTS of kids that need a good

> > home.

> > >

> > >  Oher was adopted by my neice's

> > friend/neighbor... but they don't have to be stars to be

> > good kids... you CAN make a differnce.

> > >

> > >  if having at least 1 set of genes matters to you

> > you can go AI.

> > >

> > >  to me that upsets me more than adoption

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > [The entire original message is not included]

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

I said no don't use it. If you read the link it's just what I said. If you

take it it might lower your Testosterone levels even more.

=================================================

Propeciasideeffects.com was formed to spread the word about the undocumented

potentially irreversible side effects caused by using Propecia (finasteride) 1mg

each day. A number of males have suffered erectile dysfunction, impotence, low

libido and gynecomestica after using Propecia

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: jjmill0 <no_reply >

> Subject: Re: So I officially have low T

>

> Date: Sunday, February 13, 2011, 1:11 PM

> You say no, but then post a link that

> contradicts your response. Which is it?

>

>

> >

> > > From: jjmill0 <no_reply >

> > > Subject: Re: So I officially have

> low T

> > >

> > > Date: Sunday, February 13, 2011, 12:10 PM

> > > Would taking Finasteride (Propecia)

> > > have any affect on my Testosterone?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Uh-oh been on it a little over a month. That's how I originally found out I had

low test. I went to my pcp because I was starting to see early stages of mpb.

She rx'd propecia and ran labs. My results showed low test and referred me to a

urologist. He knows I'm taking it but never brought it up as a cause

> > >

> > > > From: jjmill0 <no_reply >

> > > > Subject: Re: So I officially have

> > low T

> > > >

> > > > Date: Sunday, February 13, 2011, 12:10 PM

> > > > Would taking Finasteride (Propecia)

> > > > have any affect on my Testosterone?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

There are so many things that can lower ones T levels. I had a guy post to me

he just got married and cleaned up is life and eats a very healthy diet. Yet

doing this he got sick testing showed his Testosterone levels to be very low.

After talking to him for a time he said he even drinks about a Gal. of SOY MILK

in 2 days.

Well this was his problem SOY acts in a mans body like it's Estradiol. Soy has

a marker that looks to a mans body like it's Estraidol but not a working

Estradiol. Well in men Estraidol is made from Testosterone and when a man's

brain sees high levels of Estradiol it thinks it's Testosterone because it can't

tell the difference. So it will slow down sending the LH message that tells the

Testis to make Testosterone and the men will end up with low Testosterone.

Because the brain thinks the high Estradiol is Testosterone.

I told him to stop the Soy Milk and in a month his levels came back up.

In this link they give you things that can lower a mans T levels.

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=450553

=================================================

According to the Great Smokies Diagnostic Lab, these are the causes of

hypogonadism:

chronic/systemic illness

surgery

chemotherapy

infections

premature aging

testicular trauma

stress

Kleinfelter's syndrome

autoimmune damage

tobacco and alcohol

sleep apnea

excessive heat

obesity

hypercortisolism

medications

hyperthyroidism

malnutrition

?Subtle clinical signs of hypogonadism may include slight gynecomastia

and soft small testes. However, researchers have noted that " the

findings of physical examination in men with adult-onset hypogonadism

are often normal.?

Secondary hypogonadism can develop as a result of hypothalamic or

pituitary disease, obesity, hypothyroidism or other causes. Some

conditions, such as hypercortisolemia, AIDS and severe systemic

illnesses, can trigger hypogonadism through a combination of both

primary and secondary mechanisms.?

http://www.gsdl.com/home/assessments/malehormone/appguide/index3.html

One cause was omitted from the list above, and that is diabetes. Are

you diabetic? Have you been tested recently?

?About one third of men with type 2 diabetes show low levels of

testosterone, and this is seems to be related to abnormal function of

the pituitary gland -- the master regulator of hormone production --

according to a new study.

Although lower total testosterone levels have been reported in type 2

diabetics, the underlying cause has not been known, Dr. Paresh Dandona

of the State University of New York at Buffalo and colleagues note in

the Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism.?

http://www.dental.am/more.php?id=4834_0_1_0_M16

?Testosterone helps men reduce body fat and improves the way their

bodies handle insulin. So low testosterone levels may have serious

consequences for men with diabetes, suggests Sandeep Dhindsa, MD, of

State University of New York at Buffalo.

" We are describing a new complication of type 2 diabetes. We are

saying that the largest group of people who have [low testosterone]

are diabetics, "

http://my.webmd.com/content/article/97/104303.htm

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: jjmill0 <no_reply >

> Subject: Re: So I officially have low T

>

> Date: Sunday, February 13, 2011, 1:15 PM

> Thanks. I will go back to my pcp at

> see if she can run those labs. Anything else there that

> would indicate anything more serious? I don't want to start

> trt, if my low levels might be caused by something else?

>

>

> > > >  >

> > > >  > > From: uu1845@ <uu1845@>

> > > >  > > Subject: RE: So

> I

> > > officially have low T

> > > >  > >

> > > >  > > Date: Saturday, February 12,

> 2011,

> > > 1:40 PM

> > > >  > > Good info, however what do men

> do who

> > > >  > > are on TRT and what to properly

> access

> > > sperm?

> > > >

> > > >  Hi,

> > > >

> > > >  well I'm one to talk... I'm 54 and have

> no

> > > natural children of my own... I have 2 wonderful

> step

> > > sons... both in their 20s.

> > > >

> > > >  and I didn't have to change either's

> diapers.

> > > :-}

> > > >

> > > >  you DO have alternatives if you want the

> pitter

> > > patter of dirty feet.

> > > >

> > > >  adopt... there are LOTS of kids that need

> a good

> > > home.

> > > >

> > > >  Oher was adopted by my neice's

> > > friend/neighbor... but they don't have to be

> stars to be

> > > good kids... you CAN make a differnce.

> > > >

> > > >  if having at least 1 set of genes matters

> to you

> > > you can go AI.

> > > >

> > > >  to me that upsets me more than adoption

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > [The entire original message is not

> included]

> > > >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

BTW- why do I need those? Just want to be able to explain my request.

> > >  >

> > >  > > From: uu1845@ <uu1845@>

> > >  > > Subject: RE: So I

> > officially have low T

> > >  > >

> > >  > > Date: Saturday, February 12, 2011,

> > 1:40 PM

> > >  > > Good info, however what do men do who

> > >  > > are on TRT and what to properly access

> > sperm?

> > >

> > >  Hi,

> > >

> > >  well I'm one to talk... I'm 54 and have no

> > natural children of my own... I have 2 wonderful step

> > sons... both in their 20s.

> > >

> > >  and I didn't have to change either's diapers.

> > :-}

> > >

> > >  you DO have alternatives if you want the pitter

> > patter of dirty feet.

> > >

> > >  adopt... there are LOTS of kids that need a good

> > home.

> > >

> > >  Oher was adopted by my neice's

> > friend/neighbor... but they don't have to be stars to be

> > good kids... you CAN make a differnce.

> > >

> > >  if having at least 1 set of genes matters to you

> > you can go AI.

> > >

> > >  to me that upsets me more than adoption

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > [The entire original message is not included]

> > >

> > >