Re: Just can't raise my T levels

[Guest guest]

You might try injections in addition to the gel. Perhaps it is an absorption

issue? Just a thought, which is not based on any expertise in the topic. At

least it is something which would be easy to try, and with an injection it

is very easy to increase the dosage until you get the right levels.

On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 11:39 PM, Bstee <bstee@...> wrote:

>

>

> I joined this group about 9 months ago when I first got my results that

> showed my total T at 42 <ref: 280-880>. I was 42 YO at the time and other

> than feeling really lousy not in terrible shape. The doc figured I had a bad

> test we tested again early in the day and it did go up to 76 total but it is

> still so low we did a brain scan looking for a pituitary issue. No issues

> there, but more blood test showed I had really low Growth Factor1 as well,

> was anemic and had low TSH.

>

> Moving forward and after coming on board here, the doc first tried my on

> HCG 3500IU weekly and I swelled like a ballon. So I went to another doctor

> and pretty much demanded Testosterone. I went on the patches and felt a lot

> better for a couple of weeks and then became allergic and am now on the gel

> pacs. After three months on the gel we tested again and I felt like I was

> back to dragging again, the doc tested, I was at 140 (241-827 ref). The Doc

> said it was still a little low but far better than the double digits I was

> in. I still feel horrible so now I have been on Testosterone Gel for 6

> months and I even put on a little extra the morning before my test to see if

> I could get it to raise to the normal amount, but I just got them back: 119

> (241-827) and we tested free it was 3.1 (ref 3.8-34.2). We didn't run much

> else at the time my triglycerides are skyhigh 468 and an oddball Alkaline

> Phosphate is low (high means liver issues, low I have no idea).

>

> I am on Cholesterol meds but no thyroid or other meds. Any idea why I can't

> raise my testosterone even when I am taking testosterone? I thought it was

> automatic, how would it be that even with a supplement gel I still am so low

> or maybe I just can't fix it?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Bstee,

I think I know why but lets go over some things first.

Men don't do 3500 IU /per week unless they are trying to make a baby. For low T

one would do a 100 IU's shot everyday never doing more then 500 IU's at a time.

At the most men would do 500 IU's 3x's a week to start on Testosterone meds.

How high did your Testosterone levels go up on this much HCG. If they were very

high over 600 they I would say you have a Pituitary Problem. I have this it's

called Hypopituitary mine is from a head injury nothing shows up on an MRI.

Now for your Patch you were on what was the allergic reaction you had was it a

rash or red sore where the patch was on. How high did your levels go up on the

Patch.

With gels some men like myself can't use gels they don't get through the skin.

I have a thyroid problem and it makes my skin very thick where gels or creams

don't work can't get through the skin.

I suffer for yrs. on Gels never getting good levels and I was on 10 grams the

higher dose.

I switched to shots starting with 100 mg. / week. My first shot was a kick

start shot of 200 mgs to get me going then after this I did 100 mgs./ week.

After 8 weeks we did labs my labs were up but not great and I was feeling a

little better but not great.

Also we checked my Estraidol levels they were high so we used Arimidex .5 mgs

every other day to get this down my labs were over 90 pg/ml. Best at 20pg/ml as

long as your Estradiol is high over 30 it undoes any good the Testosterone is

doing your adding to your body. So test this if it's high get it down.

After my first set of labs on shots of Test C we upped my dose to 150 mgs/ week

and added in HCG doing 250 IU's the 2 days each just before my next Test C shot

this kept my levels up good and I felt better.

You need to get your TT levels up into the upper 1/3 of your labs range or up to

a point where you feel better witch ever comes first. And you need to keep your

Estradiol levels down to about 20 pg/ml.

I feel your Estraidol levels are up very high from all the HCG you started out

on. And this binds up your Free T and this is why it's so low. Also high

Estraidol will mess with your Thyroid and other labs.

Today I do my shots every 3 days and do HCG the day before my next Test D shot.

I do them myself if you go to shots learn to do them your self. Don't let a Dr.

tell you to come in his office every 2 weeks for a shot this is old crap and

does not work. It puts you on a roller coaster ride up after the big shot he

would give you 200 mgs only to fall low again by the weeks end. It's when your

levels fall to low before your next shot that makes you feel bad.

Your low ALP might be from your Thyroid or your Iron levels are low. My ALP has

been low for over 30 yrs. From my first set of labs. My Dr. says my liver is

fine low ALP does not mean your liver is bad it's high levels of ALP that can

mean your liver off.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkaline_phosphatase

==============================

Lowered levels

The following conditions or diseases may lead to reduced levels of alkaline

phosphatase:

Hypophosphatasia, an autosomal recessive disease

Postmenopausal women receiving estrogen therapy because of osteoporosis

Men with recent heart surgery, malnutrition, magnesium deficiency,

hypothyroidism, or severe anemia

Children with achondroplasia and cretinism

Children after a severe episode of enteritis

Pernicious anemia

Aplastic anemia

Chronic myelogenous leukemia

In addition, the following drugs have been demonstrated to reduce alkaline

phosphatase:

Oral contraceptives[11]

-------------------------------------------------------

You say your on Cholesterol meds I had Heart Bypass Surgery 27 months ago long

story I am lucky to be here. But the Heart surgeon that did my Bypass Sugary

put me on Cholesterol lowering med.

I had joint and muscle pain from day one on this and I read being on Statin

Drugs can cripple you. I kept telling my Dr.'s that I never in my life had high

Cholesterol levels and now my Cholesterol labs are very low.

And that when I was in the hosp. ICU for 14 week 13 of them weeks I was put in a

coma because if infections. They needed to reopen me 5 x's and could not close

me up because they had me on blood thinners and needed to leave me open until

the thinners were out of my body.

When I came too I needed to learn how to talk and think and walk again. I was

so weak I can not push a button to call a nurse.

When you have a heart problem Dr.'s put you on Cholesterol meds (Statin Drugs)

one of the sides is joint and muscle damage. My dam Dr.'s would not listen to

me until last Sept. when I hit bottom and could not stand up or walk anymore.

You are on Cholesterol meds if I were you I would read up on this and think long

and hard about taking them.

From what I know about them today they is no proof the save lives and help your

heart. It's all about Big Money with Big Drug Co.'s.

I can't walk with out a walker I am on pain meds and now that this happened my

Dr.'s know all about what's wrong from taking Statin Drugs.

Here is some info to read about taking Statin Drugs. here I had Heart Bypass

Surgery died 5x's and lived through this He** only to be crippled and in a lot

of pain. Because Heart Dr.'s are brain washed into thinking everyone that had a

heart problem needs to be on Sta tin Drugs. And they tell you to follow a Heart

Smart Diet and to get Exercise.

Well I never got my legs back doing Exercise through Therapy because the Statin

Drugs were damaging my joints and muscles and the more I tired to exercise and

was pushed to do this by my Dr.'s the more it damaged my joints and muscles.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/07/20/the-truth-about-st\

atin-drugs-revealed.aspx

http://www.spacedoc.net/muscle_pain_statins.htm

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Bstee <bstee@...>

> Subject: Just can't raise my T levels

>

> Date: Thursday, February 17, 2011, 2:39 AM

> I joined this group about 9 months

> ago when I first got my results that showed my total T at 42

> <ref: 280-880>.  I was 42 YO at the time and

> other than feeling really lousy not in terrible shape. 

> The doc figured I had a bad test we tested again early in

> the day and it did go up to 76 total but it is still so low

> we did a brain scan looking for a pituitary issue.  No

> issues there, but more blood test showed I had really low

> Growth Factor1 as well, was anemic and had low TSH.

>

> Moving forward and after coming on board here, the doc

> first tried my on HCG 3500IU weekly and I swelled like a

> ballon.  So I went to another doctor and pretty much

> demanded Testosterone.  I went on the patches and felt

> a lot better for a couple of weeks and then became allergic

> and am now on the gel pacs.  After three months on the

> gel we tested again and I felt like I was back to dragging

> again, the doc tested, I was at 140 (241-827 ref).  The

> Doc said it was still a little low but far better than the

> double digits I was in.  I still feel horrible so now I

> have been on Testosterone Gel for 6 months and I even put on

> a little extra the morning before my test to see if I could

> get it to raise to the normal amount, but I just got them

> back: 119 (241-827) and we tested free it was 3.1 (ref

> 3.8-34.2).   We didn't run much else at the

> time my triglycerides are skyhigh 468 and an oddball

> Alkaline Phosphate is low (high means liver issues, low I

> have no idea).

>

> I am on Cholesterol meds but no thyroid or other

> meds.  Any idea why I can't raise my testosterone even

> when I am taking testosterone?  I thought it was

> automatic, how would it be that even with a supplement gel I

> still am so low or maybe I just can't fix it?

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Philip, Great info I appreciate the time and effort. I did stop the HCG after

about 6 weeks as my feet swelled so bad (pitting ademia they called it) I could

not even fit into my shoes. I was prescribed this from my wife's OBGYN who

looked at my TST numbers and gave me this. I suppose he might have given me the

HCG based on dosing for guys with sperm issues but that is not my issue at all.

In fact oddly with the super low TST I still had oddly high sperm count so I

guess the that was just a mistake by the doc. He gave me five months worth of

HCG at about 10k IU/Month but I stopped after two vials.

I had a really serious allergic reaction to the actual gel not the glue in the

patches. I was told that some folks have a reaction to the glue and I was fine

for the first six weeks but after six weeks I the center (where the gel is)

started itching really bad, then it caused a welt then it swelled and eventually

it scarred about the size of a silver dollar. I would scar within about 2 hours

and no way could I leave it on for 24 hours. I still have some of the scars

even though I stopped using them 5 months ago. The doc said it is possible to

be allergic but not show it for a few weeks until you build up the

histamine/antibodies. Thankfully I have had no reaction to the gel itself.

I am afraid I can't get all the testing from my current doc. I am in the middle

of nowhere in California and my doc is very uncomfortable treating at all based

upon my labs. He said it is way over the head of a GP so he wants me to see an

endo in town. But there are only 2 endocrinologists in town and both have a SIX

MONTH wait to get in, seriously! So much for our world class healthcare. I

asked him about more testing of upping the TST or even just moving to injections

but he refused until an ENDO signs off so I am six months off from any changes.

Maybe I need to take the day off and try to get into some place in LA or

somewhere else. Seems like it might be worth it.

>

> > From: Bstee <bstee@...>

> > Subject: Just can't raise my T levels

> >

> > Date: Thursday, February 17, 2011, 2:39 AM

> > I joined this group about 9 months

> > ago when I first got my results that showed my total T at 42

> > <ref: 280-880>.  I was 42 YO at the time and

> > other than feeling really lousy not in terrible shape. 

> > The doc figured I had a bad test we tested again early in

> > the day and it did go up to 76 total but it is still so low

> > we did a brain scan looking for a pituitary issue.  No

> > issues there, but more blood test showed I had really low

> > Growth Factor1 as well, was anemic and had low TSH.

> >

> > Moving forward and after coming on board here, the doc

> > first tried my on HCG 3500IU weekly and I swelled like a

> > ballon.  So I went to another doctor and pretty much

> > demanded Testosterone.  I went on the patches and felt

> > a lot better for a couple of weeks and then became allergic

> > and am now on the gel pacs.  After three months on the

> > gel we tested again and I felt like I was back to dragging

> > again, the doc tested, I was at 140 (241-827 ref).  The

> > Doc said it was still a little low but far better than the

> > double digits I was in.  I still feel horrible so now I

> > have been on Testosterone Gel for 6 months and I even put on

> > a little extra the morning before my test to see if I could

> > get it to raise to the normal amount, but I just got them

> > back: 119 (241-827) and we tested free it was 3.1 (ref

> > 3.8-34.2).   We didn't run much else at the

> > time my triglycerides are skyhigh 468 and an oddball

> > Alkaline Phosphate is low (high means liver issues, low I

> > have no idea).

> >

> > I am on Cholesterol meds but no thyroid or other

> > meds.  Any idea why I can't raise my testosterone even

> > when I am taking testosterone?  I thought it was

> > automatic, how would it be that even with a supplement gel I

> > still am so low or maybe I just can't fix it?

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

My T levels didn't rise until I started Isocort.

They went from 275 to a whopping 425 on 2 tubes / day of Testim.

Then I started Isocort 8 pellets / day and my next

test showed 835!

> >

> > > From: Bstee <bstee@>

> > > Subject: Just can't raise my T levels

> > >

> > > Date: Thursday, February 17, 2011, 2:39 AM

> > > I joined this group about 9 months

> > > ago when I first got my results that showed my total T at 42

> > > <ref: 280-880>.  I was 42 YO at the time and

> > > other than feeling really lousy not in terrible shape. 

> > > The doc figured I had a bad test we tested again early in

> > > the day and it did go up to 76 total but it is still so low

> > > we did a brain scan looking for a pituitary issue.  No

> > > issues there, but more blood test showed I had really low

> > > Growth Factor1 as well, was anemic and had low TSH.

> > >

> > > Moving forward and after coming on board here, the doc

> > > first tried my on HCG 3500IU weekly and I swelled like a

> > > ballon.  So I went to another doctor and pretty much

> > > demanded Testosterone.  I went on the patches and felt

> > > a lot better for a couple of weeks and then became allergic

> > > and am now on the gel pacs.  After three months on the

> > > gel we tested again and I felt like I was back to dragging

> > > again, the doc tested, I was at 140 (241-827 ref).  The

> > > Doc said it was still a little low but far better than the

> > > double digits I was in.  I still feel horrible so now I

> > > have been on Testosterone Gel for 6 months and I even put on

> > > a little extra the morning before my test to see if I could

> > > get it to raise to the normal amount, but I just got them

> > > back: 119 (241-827) and we tested free it was 3.1 (ref

> > > 3.8-34.2).   We didn't run much else at the

> > > time my triglycerides are skyhigh 468 and an oddball

> > > Alkaline Phosphate is low (high means liver issues, low I

> > > have no idea).

> > >

> > > I am on Cholesterol meds but no thyroid or other

> > > meds.  Any idea why I can't raise my testosterone even

> > > when I am taking testosterone?  I thought it was

> > > automatic, how would it be that even with a supplement gel I

> > > still am so low or maybe I just can't fix it?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Well on the HCG you swelled up because the high dose you were doing was more

then your testis could handle and most of the HCG converted into Estraidol this

kills your sex life gives you ED and makes you hold a ton of water. On the

patch that mark you were getting is what I was talking about the glue never

caused me a rash it was just very hard to get off. I had to use HC Cream to

treat the sore where the gel from the patch hit my skin.

Now for your Dr. telling you to see an Endo they think Endo's are good Hormone

Dr. but they are not any good the are the worst don't waste your time and money

seeing one. I read posts by men all over the place from men complaining about

the dam Endo there Dr. sent them to see.

In the last 30 yrs I was sent to see 7 of them not one was any good they all

took me off TRT would not even look at my labs. And all they found out was how

dam sick they made me.

If you can get your Dr. to work with Dr. at www.allthingsmale.com over the

phone to test and treat you he is the best male hormone Dr. in the world. Doing

this your Dr. will learn about this on your dime and he will be able to treat

you and other men.

Take my word for it Endo's are not good Dr.'s for low Testosterone. If your Dr.

will not work with Dr. over the phone the go see Dr. M he is in Ca. and one

of the best at this much like Dr. if not better. He is into Psychiatry

with interest in behavioral neuroendocrinology, psychoimmunology, metabolism and

nutrition and feels most people have problems that are due to low hormones. He

is coming out with a new book that will change the way Psychiatry is tested and

treated he feels most of it if not all of it is hormones.

Here is a link to Dr. 's forum go there and read the sticks a very good one

is TRT: A Recipe for Success and His HCG up date.

http://www.musclechatroom.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?2-All-Things-Male

And this is a link to Dr. no forum Hardasnails is a mod there.

http://www.definitivemind.com/forums/index.php

---------------------------------------------------

Romeo no, MD info@... (it's better to call) 831-375-6655 225

Crossroads Blvd, #416, Carmel CA 93923 (MAILING) Monterey 262 Eldorado Street

#100, Monterey CA 93940 (OFFICE) Psychiatry with interest in behavioral

neuroendocrinology, psychoimmunology, metabolism and nutrition

http://www.definitivemind.com (UPDATED 7-26-2010)

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Bstee <bstee@...>

> Subject: Re: Just can't raise my T levels

>

> Date: Thursday, February 17, 2011, 11:06 PM

> Philip, Great info I appreciate the

> time and effort.  I did stop the HCG after about 6

> weeks as my feet swelled so bad (pitting ademia they called

> it) I could not even fit into my shoes.  I was

> prescribed this from my wife's OBGYN who looked at my TST

> numbers and gave me this.  I suppose he might have

> given me the HCG based on dosing for guys with sperm issues

> but that is not my issue at all.  In fact oddly with

> the super low TST I still had oddly high sperm count so I

> guess the that was just a mistake by the doc.  He gave

> me five months worth of HCG at about 10k IU/Month but I

> stopped after two vials.

>

> I had a really serious allergic reaction to the actual gel

> not the glue in the patches.  I was told that some

> folks have a reaction to the glue and I was fine for the

> first six weeks but after six weeks I the center (where the

> gel is) started itching really bad, then it caused a welt

> then it swelled and eventually it scarred about the size of

> a silver dollar.  I would scar within about 2 hours and

> no way could I leave it on for 24 hours.  I still have

> some of the scars even though I stopped using them 5 months

> ago.  The doc said it is possible to be allergic but

> not show it for a few weeks until you build up the

> histamine/antibodies.  Thankfully I have had no

> reaction to the gel itself.

>

> I am afraid I can't get all the testing from my current

> doc.  I am in the middle of nowhere in California and

> my doc is very uncomfortable treating at all based upon my

> labs.  He said it is way over the head of a GP so he

> wants me to see an endo in town.  But there are only 2

> endocrinologists in town and both have a SIX MONTH wait to

> get in, seriously!  So much for our world class

> healthcare.  I asked him about more testing of upping

> the TST or even just moving to injections but he refused

> until an ENDO signs off so I am six months off from any

> changes.  Maybe I need to take the day off and try to

> get into some place in LA or somewhere else.  Seems

> like it might be worth it.

>

>

> >

> > > From: Bstee <bstee@...>

> > > Subject: Just can't raise my T

> levels

> > >

> > > Date: Thursday, February 17, 2011, 2:39 AM

> > > I joined this group about 9 months

> > > ago when I first got my results that showed my

> total T at 42

> > > <ref: 280-880>.  I was 42 YO at the time

> and

> > > other than feeling really lousy not in terrible

> shape. 

> > > The doc figured I had a bad test we tested again

> early in

> > > the day and it did go up to 76 total but it is

> still so low

> > > we did a brain scan looking for a pituitary

> issue.  No

> > > issues there, but more blood test showed I had

> really low

> > > Growth Factor1 as well, was anemic and had low

> TSH.

> > >

> > > Moving forward and after coming on board here,

> the doc

> > > first tried my on HCG 3500IU weekly and I swelled

> like a

> > > ballon.  So I went to another doctor and pretty

> much

> > > demanded Testosterone.  I went on the patches

> and felt

> > > a lot better for a couple of weeks and then

> became allergic

> > > and am now on the gel pacs.  After three months

> on the

> > > gel we tested again and I felt like I was back to

> dragging

> > > again, the doc tested, I was at 140 (241-827

> ref).  The

> > > Doc said it was still a little low but far better

> than the

> > > double digits I was in.  I still feel horrible

> so now I

> > > have been on Testosterone Gel for 6 months and I

> even put on

> > > a little extra the morning before my test to see

> if I could

> > > get it to raise to the normal amount, but I just

> got them

> > > back: 119 (241-827) and we tested free it was 3.1

> (ref

> > > 3.8-34.2).   We didn't run much else at the

> > > time my triglycerides are skyhigh 468 and an

> oddball

> > > Alkaline Phosphate is low (high means liver

> issues, low I

> > > have no idea).

> > >

> > > I am on Cholesterol meds but no thyroid or other

> > > meds.  Any idea why I can't raise my

> testosterone even

> > > when I am taking testosterone?  I thought it

> was

> > > automatic, how would it be that even with a

> supplement gel I

> > > still am so low or maybe I just can't fix it?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >