Re: Thyroid Question For Barb / Phil

[Guest guest]

" marc200134470 " <cfs38@...> wrote:

> The past few mornings I have been taking my oral temp as soon as I wake up. It

has been from 97.7 to 98.2 over several days.

> Just wondering how that would relate to the other method, and if it shows you

folks anything. Is the oral reading typically higher than under the arm with a

mercury bulb one?

Actually, optimal morning basal temp is 97.8-98.2! IF there is no infection,

dental, sinus, or otherwise, then oral and basal SHOULD be the same. But

usually, an armpit temperature is a hair lower. You can try using your digital

in your left armpit just to see what you get.

> I am thinking more and more that what Barb said about me being not 'optimal'

on T3 is being made up for by adrenaline. BP and pulse have been doing strange

things.

> When I wake up my pulse is usually around 65,......as soon as I start to move

around it goes up to the mid eighties. Just walking will take it into the low to

mid nineties, and forget about when I am working!

Well low pulse in the morning that rises with the day's activities is pretty

normal. 65 is not too bad for the morning, but it's way too low for the day.

If you were sitting at a desk during the day, I would expect 70s-80s. 90s would

be too high for sitting, but you said you're walking around.

> Also I have noticed that after I eat almost anything, my pulse ramps up for a

couple of hours.

Cortisol is secreted whenever you eat, and helps thyroid work better. I've also

heard eating something you're allergic to will raise pulse.

> I am a fairly fit/active person, and not overweight at all, so this is

becoming a concern to me. I feel certain that something to do with hormones of

one type or the other is behind all of what is going on with me. Got my appt.

with the Cardiologist changed to Thursday morning, but can't imagine that it is

anything related to my heart. I have had every test known to man done I believe.

If you've already had all the tests, not sure what more the cardiologist can do.

I agree it's probably hormonal (how many guys have that said to them lol!).

You've already had all the hormone labs runs and stopped the beer. Now you just

have to give your body time to adjust. Have you donated blood to get your

ferritin down? Started the B12, selenium, milk thistle, whatever else, can't

remember?

Barb

[Guest guest]

I have been told by a lot of people at thyroid forums not to use a digital gage

they don't work good. I use this.

http://www.wilsonsthyroidsyndrome.com/Products/Thermometer.htm

From this link.

http://wtsmed.com/identifying-the-problems/how-are-body-temperatures-measured.ht\

ml

And I like this link best for tracking your temps.

http://www.drrind.com/therapies/metabolic-temperature-graph

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...>

> Subject: Thyroid Question For Barb / Phil

>

> Date: Tuesday, September 21, 2010, 12:31 PM

> Actually anyone that has knowledge.

> I remember someone posting about testing your body temp

> when you wake up one time. I think you are supposed to use a

> mercury thermometer under the arm, but I am curious how an

> oral digital reading would relate. I don't have an old

> fashioned one! LOL

>

> The past few mornings I have been taking my oral temp as

> soon as I wake up. It has been from 97.7 to 98.2 over

> several days.

> Just wondering how that would relate to the other method,

> and if it shows you folks anything. Is the oral reading

> typically higher than under the arm with a mercury bulb

> one?

>

> This thermometer is very accurate as I have tested it in

> liquid against a professional probe type unit I use in my

> trade that cost about 400 bucks.

>

> I am thinking more and more that what Barb said about me

> being not 'optimal' on T3 is being made up for by

> adrenaline. BP and pulse have been doing strange things.

> When I wake up my pulse is usually around 65,......as soon

> as I start to move around it goes up to the mid eighties.

> Just walking will take it into the low to mid nineties, and

> forget about when I am working!

>

> Also I have noticed that after I eat almost anything, my

> pulse ramps up for a couple of hours.

>

> I am a fairly fit/active person, and not overweight at all,

> so this is becoming a concern to me. I feel certain that

> something to do with hormones of one type or the other is

> behind all of what is going on with me. Got my appt. with

> the Cardiologist changed to Thursday morning, but can't

> imagine that it is anything related to my heart. I have had

> every test known to man done I believe.

>

> Thanks for any input as usual.

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Barb,....thanks for the info. Somehow I thought an oral temp would be more of a

difference than that which made me think it might be another sign of being a

'hidden' hypo.

I was told that to determine your TRUE resting pulse to take it when you wake up

while still in bed. I have a Nonin pulse/ox that I check it with. I bought it

for exercise, so no I am not a hypochondriac! LOL

I have started some of the supplements, and yes the beer is gone. Nicotine is

another few days away.

Surprisingly I called the blood bank, and they said I was not eligible due to my

BP med and the fact my BP still runs high. Something about it being thick I

believe.

That's a new one on me, as one of my largest industrial customers used to have a

blood draw day at their location here from time to time.

I gave blood several times when I was working at their site in the past.

I am eating the same type of food that I have always eaten, so I can't imagine

an allergic reaction resulting in the high pulse. I KNOW that it goes up a

little as the blood demand for digestion kicks in.

My issue lies in Cortisol, and Adrenaline somewhere I am sure.

Over the weekend I ate a turkey sandwich, and simply went outside to trim a few

plants for about 30 minutes. When I came back in from the heat my pulse was up

to 115 and took quite some time to return to normal. I also realize that I may

be getting a certain amount of 'anxiety' from giving up my bad habits as well.

I guess I will get to wear a Holter monitor yet once again,.....OR I will get

the lecture about starting Bystolic the beta-blocker.

[Guest guest]

Phil,.....I think my mother across the county has a few of the old ones.

I will pick one up, as I see her every few days.

One thing I forgot to add though.

My temps I guess are good in the AM, but several times I have been to a doc in

the afternoon and they claim it is around 99.2 to 99.7 and I have no issues nor

feelings of an infection.

Sometimes they take them with those ear probe things,......I have read they are

high on a lot of folks. Some have been orally though.

Last visit to the endo they said it was 99.6 and the nurse asked if I felt sick.

It was normal again the next AM.

I guess I am a strange one!LOL

[Guest guest]

" marc200134470 " <cfs38@...> wrote:

> I have started some of the supplements, and yes the beer is gone. Nicotine is

another few days away.

Whoa, you didn't say you were a smoker before, did you? There is a connection

with nicotine and cortisol and thyroid. I remember reading how women who stopped

smoking had a real hard time adjusting thyroid and other hormones when they

stopped. Most gain weight so there's some connection there. I never paid

atttention much since we're not smokers so that was ONE small thing I didn't

have to figure out lol.

> Surprisingly I called the blood bank, and they said I was not eligible due to

my BP med and the fact my BP still runs high. Something about it being thick I

believe.

>

> That's a new one on me, as one of my largest industrial customers used to have

a blood draw day at their location here from time to time.

> I gave blood several times when I was working at their site in the past.

I think they turn you down if your diastolic bottom number is > 100. Where do

you work, what do you do outside? I used to work at the Orlando Sentinel till I

got laid off. Newspapers, as everyone knows, are a rapidly expanding high-tech

business.

Your iron was really high, IIRC. You might cut down some of your red meat

consumption to help. I did NOT say go vegetarian, I don't believe that's

healthy either. But just as too little iron isn't good, neither is too much.

> My issue lies in Cortisol, and Adrenaline somewhere I am sure.

> Over the weekend I ate a turkey sandwich, and simply went outside to trim a

few plants for about 30 minutes. When I came back in from the heat my pulse was

up to 115 and took quite some time to return to normal. I also realize that I

may be getting a certain amount of 'anxiety' from giving up my bad habits as

well.

Have you started drinking sea salt in your water? And yes, you might have

withdrawal from cutting so many things. I can't imagine quitting smoking cold

turkey. You will have to expect some sort of withdrawal.

> I guess I will get to wear a Holter monitor yet once again,.....OR I will get

the lecture about starting Bystolic the beta-blocker.

Beta blockers impede the T4 to T3 thyroid conversion, which is what you're

already low in. I'd choose something else if you're going to take more meds.

BTW, the doc has to offer things to you, because that's the standard of care.

Doesn't mean you have to take them. Someone here posted that about statins.

Barb

[Guest guest]

Barb, I thought I had mentioned my tobacco use but it might have been on another

thread. I do not smoke,.....I use Skoal as in snuff, or chewing tobacco.

I have never smoked in my life.

As far as red meat goes it is largely bison. Might actually have more iron than

beef though,....I eat it for the reduced fat, and no hormones or anti-biotics

added. Actually I prefer the taste now.

I am self-employed, and hold a class A HVAC contractors license. All I do

anymore is industrial work, so I consider myself semi-retired per se.

Been in the trade for 28 years, and on my own for 18 of those. I am only about

an hour and a half north of you BTW if you live in Orlando.

Yes,.....I already know that nicotine is nicotine.LOL

I am down to virtually none of it. That's why I said a few days to be totally

off. I also realize it is a disgusting habit before you get the chance to say

it!

I know I asked about nicotine here on one thread or the other though!

[Guest guest]

My iron levels were towards the higher end of range but normal,.....my ferritin

was high as in 512. All of my results were on that 'Endo' thread.

Seems you can't edit here after posting, or I don't know how to.

[Guest guest]

On Thyroid meds when my temps went this high I was on to much Armour had to cut

back was feeling hyper.

My heart was beating very fast and I was sweating and my BP was high.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...>

> Subject: Re: Thyroid Question For Barb / Phil

>

> Date: Tuesday, September 21, 2010, 3:00 PM

> Phil,.....I think my mother across

> the county has a few of the old ones.

> I will pick one up, as I see her every few days.

>

> One thing I forgot to add though.

> My temps I guess are good in the AM, but several times I

> have been to a doc in the afternoon and they claim it is

> around 99.2 to 99.7 and I have no issues nor feelings of an

> infection.

>

> Sometimes they take them with those ear probe

> things,......I have read they are high on a lot of folks.

> Some have been orally though.

> Last visit to the endo they said it was 99.6 and the nurse

> asked if I felt sick.

>

> It was normal again the next AM.

> I guess I am a strange one!LOL

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

I am on no thyroid meds though Phil.

>

> On Thyroid meds when my temps went this high I was on to much Armour had to

cut back was feeling hyper.

> My heart was beating very fast and I was sweating and my BP was high.

> Co-Moderator

> Phil

[Guest guest]

I am just saying this because you can go hyper not on Thyroid meds.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...>

> Subject: Re: Thyroid Question For Barb / Phil

>

> Date: Tuesday, September 21, 2010, 5:05 PM

> I am on no thyroid meds though Phil.

>

>

>

> >

> > On Thyroid meds when my temps went this high I was on

> to much Armour had to cut back was feeling hyper.

> > My heart was beating very fast and I was sweating and

> my BP was high.

> > Co-Moderator

> > Phil

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

I gotcha now.

Have no clue what is going on,.....my tests certainly didn't indicate 'hyper'

which is what I was expecting.

Several relatives on my maternal side were 'hypo', although my mother is not.

The other side has a number of 'hyper' individuals including my father whom I

have never known until very recently after he decided to track me down.

>

> I am just saying this because you can go hyper not on Thyroid meds.

> Co-Moderator

> Phil

>

[Guest guest]

If the blood bank won't do it, maybe the cardiologist can recommend a

therapeutic phlebotomy? They'd drain you and discard the blood. High ferritin

over time can cause organ damage. Organs meaning testes, thyroid, adrenals,

pancreas, etc. I don't believe damage starts until the 1000s, but you're

already over range, and will probably continue to go higher. I personally would

want it lowered, since it's such a simple procedure.

Barb

>

> My iron levels were towards the higher end of range but normal,.....my

ferritin was high as in 512. All of my results were on that 'Endo' thread.

>

> Seems you can't edit here after posting, or I don't know how to.

>

[Guest guest]

I don't remember your labs but some people with even just above the mid range

can be hyper. It's not about labs it's about how you feel.

http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/hyperthyroidism-topic-overview

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...>

> Subject: Re: Thyroid Question For Barb / Phil

>

> Date: Tuesday, September 21, 2010, 5:15 PM

> I gotcha now.

> Have no clue what is going on,.....my tests certainly

> didn't indicate 'hyper' which is what I was expecting.

>

> Several relatives on my maternal side were 'hypo', although

> my mother is not.

> The other side has a number of 'hyper' individuals

> including my father whom I have never known until very

> recently after he decided to track me down.

>

>

> >

> > I am just saying this because you can go hyper not on

> Thyroid meds.

> > Co-Moderator

> > Phil

> >

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

I will ask him about it for sure. I made copies of my bloodwork from the endo to

take with me.

Temp this AM at 6:30 was 97.8 and pulse was 64.

The digital didn't seem to want to work right under the arm, and yes I took it

orally first!LOL

PS,......I did mention the nicotine! It was in that thread " Another Estradiol

Question. "

At least I'm not losing my mind too.

>

> If the blood bank won't do it, maybe the cardiologist can recommend a

therapeutic phlebotomy? They'd drain you and discard the blood. High ferritin

over time can cause organ damage. Organs meaning testes, thyroid, adrenals,

pancreas, etc. I don't believe damage starts until the 1000s, but you're

already over range, and will probably continue to go higher. I personally would

want it lowered, since it's such a simple procedure.

>

> Barb

>

[Guest guest]

TSH - 1.51 (0.40-4.50 mIU/L)

T4 Free - 1.2 (0.8-1.8 ng/dL)

T3 Free - 298 (230-420 pg/dL)

Those were the thyroid specific ones she ordered. My cortisol was 23 which you

said was good. Test said high though,.....think the range ended at 22.

>

> I don't remember your labs but some people with even just above the mid range

can be hyper. It's not about labs it's about how you feel.

> http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/hyperthyroidism-topic-overview

> Co-Moderator

> Phil

[Guest guest]

Sorry Phil, but I have to completely disagree with this. In true hyper, like

Graves' disease, FT3 on a range of (240-420) can run as much as 5x over, like

2500. If your labs are barely mid-range, you are NOT hyper. But you CAN suffer

an intolerance to T3, usually from low ferritin. I've been reading Dr.

no's site and taking notes (thanks for the link to his site!) and he

stresses how important iron is to multiple metabolic processes like enzymes,

conversion pathways, detox, etc.

In Marc's case, if there is autoimmune thyroid disease on both sides, he should

ask to get all his thyroid antibodies tested: TRab or TBII, TPO, and TGab. His

FT3 at last lab was not mid-range and shows a conversion problem. And his

ferritin was certainly not low, but over-range high!

And for others reading this, the reason you don't want to donate blood more than

twice a year (if you get thick blood) is because you will then deplete your

ferritin, which will cause other metabolic issues. Much wiser to lower your T

dose and do more frequent shots. And if your T doesn't last very long, it might

suggest a low SHBG problem, caused by low thyroid. SHBG makes less T last

longer.

Barb

> > >

> > > I am just saying this because you can go hyper not on

> > Thyroid meds.

> > > Co-Moderator

> > > Phil

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Yes your right I looked back at STTM's site and all that came up was Hashimoto's

thyroiditis. It's hard to remember not much is said about being hyper.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Barb <baba@...>

> Subject: Re: Thyroid Question For Barb / Phil

>

> Date: Wednesday, September 22, 2010, 11:36 AM

> Sorry Phil, but I have to completely

> disagree with this.  In true hyper, like Graves'

> disease, FT3 on a range of (240-420) can run as much as 5x

> over, like 2500.  If your labs are barely mid-range,

> you are NOT hyper.  But you CAN suffer an intolerance

> to T3, usually from low ferritin.  I've been reading

> Dr. no's site and taking notes (thanks for the link to

> his site!) and he stresses how important iron is to multiple

> metabolic processes like enzymes, conversion pathways,

> detox, etc. 

>

> In Marc's case, if there is autoimmune thyroid disease on

> both sides, he should ask to get all his thyroid antibodies

> tested:  TRab or TBII, TPO, and TGab.  His FT3 at

> last lab was not mid-range and shows a conversion

> problem.  And his ferritin was certainly not low, but

> over-range high!

>

> And for others reading this, the reason you don't want to

> donate blood more than twice a year (if you get thick blood)

> is because you will then deplete your ferritin, which will

> cause other metabolic issues.  Much wiser to lower your

> T dose and do more frequent shots.  And if your T

> doesn't last very long, it might suggest a low SHBG problem,

> caused by low thyroid.  SHBG makes less T last

> longer. 

>

> Barb

>

>

>

> > > >

> > > > I am just saying this because you can go

> hyper not on

> > > Thyroid meds.

> > > > Co-Moderator

> > > > Phil

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Barb,.....I did ask for all of those antibody tests as you said I should. Told

her about the family history as well. She wouldn't even test total T3/4, nor

rT3.

This was the endo of course.

I don't get it at all. It isn't costing them anything and I told her that my

insurance company has never refused to pay for anything that a doctor ordered. I

think she didn't like me suggesting the proper tests to do personally. Only

reason she did estradiol was because I said I was going to leave if she didn't

test that.

> In Marc's case, if there is autoimmune thyroid disease on both sides, he

should ask to get all his thyroid antibodies tested: TRab or TBII, TPO, and

TGab. His FT3 at last lab was not mid-range and shows a conversion problem.

And his ferritin was certainly not low, but over-range high!

>

[Guest guest]

Well the stories on the unhelpfulness of endos are endless. It's almost like

they're taught in school not to help patients! You did get a LOT of labs run

though. Consensus is that DOs are the most helpful. Mine is a D.O.

I just read that iron/ferritin is processed in the liver, venison and wild game

are high in heme iron which will raise ferritin, we know thyroid is converted in

the liver, and you just stopped drinking. I think somehow this is all connected

and you'll see improvement in a few months.

Barb

> > In Marc's case, if there is autoimmune thyroid disease on both sides, he

should ask to get all his thyroid antibodies tested: TRab or TBII, TPO, and

TGab. His FT3 at last lab was not mid-range and shows a conversion problem.

And his ferritin was certainly not low, but over-range high!

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I agree, and feel things will improve. Also I had no idea that nicotine could

mess with things as well,.....you must have missed that question on the other

thread.

It sure isn't easy giving up TWO bad habits at once, but I'm sick of feeling bad

and am willing to do anything that might improve things for me. The tobacco is

going to be gone forever,......I might still have a couple of beers from time to

time in the future, but I am going to give my liver 4 to 6 months without

processing ANY of it before I consider that.

I order that bison from a family owned ranch in MN. It's 100% grass-fed and

finished with no growth hormones or antibiotics used. Very low in fat, but not

gamey like venison,....actually it has a very mild sweet taste compared to beef.

You are correct though I would assume,.....raised pretty much like wild game

lives. Think I will cut back a little and do some more chicken/fish/pork for

awhile.

I just can't eat stuff with a lot of fat,....my digestive system doesn't care

much for it at all if you know what I mean!

>

> Well the stories on the unhelpfulness of endos are endless. It's almost like

they're taught in school not to help patients! You did get a LOT of labs run

though. Consensus is that DOs are the most helpful. Mine is a D.O.

>

> I just read that iron/ferritin is processed in the liver, venison and wild

game are high in heme iron which will raise ferritin, we know thyroid is

converted in the liver, and you just stopped drinking. I think somehow this is

all connected and you'll see improvement in a few months.

>

> Barb

>

[Guest guest]

Marc Endo's are the worst Dr.'s I ever seen my wife had Hashimoto's thyroiditis

and wasted half her life seeing them and today she still is not right.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...>

> Subject: Re: Thyroid Question For Barb / Phil

>

> Date: Wednesday, September 22, 2010, 11:58 AM

>

>

> Barb,.....I did ask for all of those antibody tests as you

> said I should. Told her about the family history as well.

> She wouldn't even test total T3/4, nor rT3.

> This was the endo of course.

>

> I don't get it at all. It isn't costing them anything and I

> told her that my insurance company has never refused to pay

> for anything that a doctor ordered. I think she didn't like

> me suggesting the proper tests to do personally. Only reason

> she did estradiol was because I said I was going to leave if

> she didn't test that.

>

>

>

> > In Marc's case, if there is autoimmune thyroid disease

> on both sides, he should ask to get all his thyroid

> antibodies tested:  TRab or TBII, TPO, and TGab. 

> His FT3 at last lab was not mid-range and shows a conversion

> problem.  And his ferritin was certainly not low, but

> over-range high!

> >

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes,.....I have been doing both as soon as I open my eyes.

I lay the thermometer and my pulse/ox on the nightstand, and simply reach over

and get them. My spo2 values are usually about 96/97% before I get out of bed.

After that they stay around 98/100% during the day. Obviously I have no issues

with that at all.

I am only doing this for a brief period so I can have the info to give to the

doc. Sounds like ALL is well before I get out of bed,....after that, something

happens.

>

> Did you do this before getting out of bed is you did your going by this link

normal.

> http://drbate.com/Ref/thyroid.html

> Co-Moderator

> Phil

[Guest guest]

I think that most of them simply concentrate on diabetics nowadays myself.

>

> Marc Endo's are the worst Dr.'s I ever seen my wife had Hashimoto's

thyroiditis and wasted half her life seeing them and today she still is not

right.

> Co-Moderator

> Phil

[Guest guest]

Some time ago they lowered the range for Cortisol it use to be over 25 most good

Dr.'s up on this don't go by this lower range they go by how you feel. Some

people have a higher levels because of the needle for the blood test it puts

more Cortisol in your body from the stress of the needle.

Free T3 is on the low side need to see Total T3 and Total T4.

A good way to tell how your Cortisol levels are are to do a 4x's in a day Saliva

test you can buy them your self and see how you look.

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...>

> Subject: Re: Thyroid Question For Barb / Phil

>

> Date: Wednesday, September 22, 2010, 11:33 AM

> TSH - 1.51 (0.40-4.50 mIU/L)

> T4 Free - 1.2 (0.8-1.8 ng/dL)

> T3 Free - 298 (230-420 pg/dL)

>

> Those were the thyroid specific ones she ordered. My

> cortisol was 23 which you said was good. Test said high

> though,.....think the range ended at 22.

>

>

> >

> > I don't remember your labs but some people with even

> just above the mid range can be hyper.  It's not about

> labs it's about how you feel. 

> > http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/hyperthyroidism-topic-overview

> > Co-Moderator

> > Phil

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes this they are good at.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...>

> Subject: Re: Thyroid Question For Barb / Phil

>

> Date: Wednesday, September 22, 2010, 12:50 PM

> I think that most of them simply

> concentrate on diabetics nowadays myself.

>

>

> >

> > Marc Endo's are the worst Dr.'s I ever seen my wife

> had Hashimoto's thyroiditis and wasted half her life seeing

> them and today she still is not right.

> > Co-Moderator

> > Phil

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>