Re: Some Test Results --would like review

[Guest guest]

Hear is what I think happened to you you have Adrenal Fatigue in the first

stages of it where levels are very high. Your working out stressed you fast

forward to the last stages of AF.

http://www.chronicfatigue.org/ASI%201%20.html

What your feeling is Adrenal Crisis your levels are lower then your body needs.

Now what came first low Testosterone or Adrenal Fatigue makes no matter you went

on TRT so now you need to stay on it for life. Once you start your brain shuts

down telling your testis to make it.

You need to be on Cortef HC starting out low 2.5 mgs and going up this amount

every 3 days until your doing a total of 20 mgs a day 5mgs 4x's a day or if you

feel real bad in the morning 10 mgs then 5mgs at lunch and 5 mgs at dinner.

If you go up on HC to fast your body can dump all your Thyroid hormones that are

building up in your blood into your cells and make you feel hyper or like your

having a heart attack.

You need cortisol to carry the Thyroid hormone out of your blood into your cells

with your low levels it is just pooling up in your blood. So go slow starting

on HC even if you took it before.

I have just posted to a guy with links and stuff read this post so it saves me

work.

/message/60822

As for malabsorption issue's I hear this all the time but don't see it.

You need to get your Total Testosteone levels up into the upper 1/3 of our labs

range and keep it there later if you feel your problems are fixed and you don't

feel you have low T see Dr. about getting restarted if your not

hypogonadism your levels with him will come back he will work with your Dr. over

the phone or you can drive to see him he only needs to see you once to treat you

by phone.

www.allthingsmale.com

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: legend888ls <legend888ls@...>

> Subject: Some Test Results --would like review

>

> Date: Wednesday, July 7, 2010, 3:23 PM

> Hello Mods,

>

> I posted here awhile back but I have several update.

>

> I found out just two months or so ago I have low T but

> would like to get some feedback on my symptoms and labs and

> current suggested treatments.  It's fairly

> comprehensive and I think it gives those in the know a

> better idea of what I am looking at and perhaps the next

> course of action I need to take.  I am 40 and within

> normal weight range, used to be highly active and no

> emotional histories.  Never had a problem with wood,

> hardness or libido before the gym.

>

> I never felt symptoms of anything until April 2009 after a

> workout.  I have seen quite a few here overdo it and

> wonder if I suffer from the same issues.  After

> completing a squatting routine  my left arm started to

> shake and suffered from a panic attack then wired and tired

> symptoms. Couldn't sleep for days.  I thought I was

> going to die and went to the ER two days later.  They

> found nothing wrong, although I was slightly dehydrated and

> my liver levels were a bit elevated.  I never took any

> supplements, drugs, or meds prior to this incident. 

> Had MRI and CT head/neck, MRA, ultrasound liver/thyroid,

> EMG, NCV all neg except mention of fatty liver but

> minor.  All blood tests normal from ER.  So I was

> sent home and told to visit GP.

>

> Went to GP, and after many other tests, including 24 hr

> epinephrine, Thyroid, and T.  All within the limits I

> was told.  Meanwhile the insomnia was still there, was

> having some dull achy pressure in the back of my neck,shaky

> upper body, felt wired but tired all day, and continued to

> suffer from occasional panic attacks and anxiety.  Even

> after seeing endos, neurologists, GI, and internal medicine

> docs, the GP concluded it was all in my head and pushed the

> usual Klonopin, Ambien, Zoloft and their variables.  Of

> course as I realized later this just added on side effects

> and made my condition worse.

>

> I am am trying to keep this sermon short but the picture

> will not be complete.  After placing faith and trust in

> all these docs for many months who basically screwed me up

> with masking tape and their faliures to follow up and

> identify the underlying issues, I decided to take on matters

> and address the labs I had.  Back in may 09 I reviewed

> the T test and it was blatantly obvious to me the T levels

> were borderline low (330 total, 11 free T).  Little did

> I know they were on the decline until I had follow up tests

> these past couple of months.  Just to make sure had

> them done with ZRT AND Labcorp.  The results were very

> similar.  But what is the cause of the low T and is it

> provoking my current symtpoms of upper body weakness and

> muscle tone loss, shaky internal feelings, extreme fatigue

> exhaustion and insomnia?

>

> So I had further tests done, here they are:

>

> Cortisol (in ng/ml):

> AM     5.5  (3.7-9.5)

> noon   1.3  (1.2-3.0)

> eve    0.4L (0.6-1.9)

> night  0.3L (0.4-1.0)

>

> Estradiol     21    12-56

> pg/ml

> Test Total    257L  400-1200 nm/dl

> free t        7.5L  8.7-25.1

> pg/ml

> ratio T/SHBG  0.2L  0.7-1.0

> DHEAS     

>    171   70-325 ug/dl

> SHBG          49   

> 15-50 nmol/L

> PSA       

>    1.8   <0.5-4 (opt

> 0.5-2)

> Free T4   

>    1.5   0.7-2.5 ng/dl

> free T3   

>    3.2   2.5-6.5 pg/ml

> TSH           3.5 H

> 0.5-3.0 uu/ml

> TPO           8 

>    0-150 iu/ml

> anti AB   

>    <20   0-40

> dihydrotest   36    30-85 ng/dl

> T3           

> 112   71-180 ng/dl

> RT3       

>    215   90-350 pg/ml

> Progesterone  0.4   0.2-1.4 ng/ml

> Ferritin      183   30-400

> B12       

>    422   211-911

> D3 25 OH      37.6  32-100

> Cholesterol   242   100-199

> Triglyc   

>    331   0-149

> HDL           36 

>   >39

> VLDL          66   

> 5-49

> LDL       

>    140   0-99

> Folate       

> >24   >5.4

> hemoglobin    5.4   <7.0 

> (healthy 4.8-4.9)

> B6            22.3 

> 5.3-46.7

> Sed Rate west 1     0-15

> Creatine Kin  79    24-204

> C-reative Pro 0.4   0.0-4.9

> Glucose Serum 89    65-99

> Creatinine Ser1.27  0.76 - 1.27

> Sodium Ser    140   135-145

> Potassium 

>    4.3   3.5-5.2

> Calcium       10.1  8.7-10.2

> Protein   

>    7.5   6.0-8.5

> AST           24 

>   0-40

> AGT           29 

>   0-55

>

> So the recommedation from a so-so literate doc on T and

> thyoid is low does T3 Cytomel and 100 mg/10 ml T compounded

> as well as 5 mg cortef @ 12 and 4 daily.  I was not

> convinced this is the right thing to do b/c he is addressing

> labs and not the cause.

>

> since I don't want to be on T for life and have no idea

> what triggered the low T besides the gym incident I decided

> to curtail the amounts of T down to .4 ml/ 100mg

> daily.  So far it las lowered incidence of shakiness

> but insomnia is horrible.  I can sometimes get 2-3

> really good symptom-free days then a return 1-2 weeks of all

> above symptoms. Worst is feeling fatigued and exhausted all

> day.  no morning wood really.  Sometimes get

> dreams and wake in the night with wood. Forget about lifting

> anything--I feel the effects for 2-3 days just from carrying

> my kid.  A new really wierd symptom is my groin

> vibrating, much liek a cell phone in my pocket, except that

> its not a cell phone.  comes for 2-3 days then comes

> back every 1-2 weeks.

>

> I thought about taking the Isocort in 4-3-2 dosage, afraid

> to take late at night based on cortisol saliva labs. 

>

> At this point I just want to know what is causing the

> problem and what to test and look for next before taking

> anything else that may not be the isssue so I am not stuck

> on anything for life unless I absolutely have to.  The

> local Pharma anti-aging specialist seems to think I have a

> leaky gut issue so suggests Priobiotic and digestive

> enzymes.  Thinks is could be malabsorption issue.

>

> Tks for reading my long sob story--legend.

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Phil.

Not trying to be condescending, but from what I have read in more than jsut a

couple of articles it would seem that it takes time depending upon dosage and

administration for the testis to completely shut down production on their own

and that although there will be temporary symptoms from stopping the levels will

rebound.   I do not even know at this point if there has been any improvement

for sure.  I just can't believe taking this stuff for such a short time would

warrant it for life considering I have been taking compounded cream 0.4 ml/100

mg daily for only a month. 

I think you are right about the adrenal crisis.  I am very concerned about

sleep as this is my biggest foe right now.  It just does not happen.

About the HC, STTP seems to indicate starting @ 20 mg i/o

slow increase.  I am taking such a small dose of T3 that I don't know if I

would cause a Thyroid dump.

Also I notice my pulse has slowed recently at rest.  Used to be above 60 now

it's around 56 and have no clue what this means.  Never been this low before. 

Have had BP checked hundreds of times in past year around 120/80.

Tks for the input--legend.

> From: legend888ls <legend888ls@...>

> Subject: Some Test Results --would like review

>

> Date: Wednesday, July 7, 2010, 3:23 PM

> Hello Mods,

>

> I posted here awhile back but I have several update.

>

> I found out just two months or so ago I have low T but

> would like to get some feedback on my symptoms and labs and

> current suggested treatments.  It's fairly

> comprehensive and I think it gives those in the know a

> better idea of what I am looking at and perhaps the next

> course of action I need to take.  I am 40 and within

> normal weight range, used to be highly active and no

> emotional histories.  Never had a problem with wood,

> hardness or libido before the gym.

>

> I never felt symptoms of anything until April 2009 after a

> workout.  I have seen quite a few here overdo it and

> wonder if I suffer from the same issues.  After

> completing a squatting routine  my left arm started to

> shake and suffered from a panic attack then wired and tired

> symptoms. Couldn't sleep for days.  I thought I was

> going to die and went to the ER two days later.  They

> found nothing wrong, although I was slightly dehydrated and

> my liver levels were a bit elevated.  I never took any

> supplements, drugs, or meds prior to this incident. 

> Had MRI and CT head/neck, MRA, ultrasound liver/thyroid,

> EMG, NCV all neg except mention of fatty liver but

> minor.  All blood tests normal from ER.  So I was

> sent home and told to visit GP.

>

> Went to GP, and after many other tests, including 24 hr

> epinephrine, Thyroid, and T.  All within the limits I

> was told.  Meanwhile the insomnia was still there, was

> having some dull achy pressure in the back of my neck,shaky

> upper body, felt wired but tired all day, and continued to

> suffer from occasional panic attacks and anxiety.  Even

> after seeing endos, neurologists, GI, and internal medicine

> docs, the GP concluded it was all in my head and pushed the

> usual Klonopin, Ambien, Zoloft and their variables.  Of

> course as I realized later this just added on side effects

> and made my condition worse.

>

> I am am trying to keep this sermon short but the picture

> will not be complete.  After placing faith and trust in

> all these docs for many months who basically screwed me up

> with masking tape and their faliures to follow up and

> identify the underlying issues, I decided to take on matters

> and address the labs I had.  Back in may 09 I reviewed

> the T test and it was blatantly obvious to me the T levels

> were borderline low (330 total, 11 free T).  Little did

> I know they were on the decline until I had follow up tests

> these past couple of months.  Just to make sure had

> them done with ZRT AND Labcorp.  The results were very

> similar.  But what is the cause of the low T and is it

> provoking my current symtpoms of upper body weakness and

> muscle tone loss, shaky internal feelings, extreme fatigue

> exhaustion and insomnia?

>

> So I had further tests done, here they are:

>

> Cortisol (in ng/ml):

> AM     5.5  (3.7-9.5)

> noon   1.3  (1.2-3.0)

> eve    0.4L (0.6-1.9)

> night  0.3L (0.4-1.0)

>

> Estradiol     21    12-56

> pg/ml

> Test Total    257L  400-1200 nm/dl

> free t        7.5L  8.7-25.1

> pg/ml

> ratio T/SHBG  0.2L  0.7-1.0

> DHEAS     

>    171   70-325 ug/dl

> SHBG          49   

> 15-50 nmol/L

> PSA       

>    1.8   <0.5-4 (opt

> 0.5-2)

> Free T4   

>    1.5   0.7-2.5 ng/dl

> free T3   

>    3.2   2.5-6.5 pg/ml

> TSH           3.5 H

> 0.5-3.0 uu/ml

> TPO           8 

>    0-150 iu/ml

> anti AB   

>    <20   0-40

> dihydrotest   36    30-85 ng/dl

> T3           

> 112   71-180 ng/dl

> RT3       

>    215   90-350 pg/ml

> Progesterone  0.4   0.2-1.4 ng/ml

> Ferritin      183   30-400

> B12       

>    422   211-911

> D3 25 OH      37.6  32-100

> Cholesterol   242   100-199

> Triglyc   

>    331   0-149

> HDL           36 

>   >39

> VLDL          66   

> 5-49

> LDL       

>    140   0-99

> Folate       

> >24   >5.4

> hemoglobin    5.4   <7.0 

> (healthy 4.8-4.9)

> B6            22.3 

> 5.3-46.7

> Sed Rate west 1     0-15

> Creatine Kin  79    24-204

> C-reative Pro 0.4   0.0-4.9

> Glucose Serum 89    65-99

> Creatinine Ser1.27  0.76 - 1.27

> Sodium Ser    140   135-145

> Potassium 

>    4.3   3.5-5.2

> Calcium       10.1  8.7-10.2

> Protein   

>    7.5   6.0-8.5

> AST           24 

>   0-40

> AGT           29 

>   0-55

>

> So the recommedation from a so-so literate doc on T and

> thyoid is low does T3 Cytomel and 100 mg/10 ml T compounded

> as well as 5 mg cortef @ 12 and 4 daily.  I was not

> convinced this is the right thing to do b/c he is addressing

> labs and not the cause.

>

> since I don't want to be on T for life and have no idea

> what triggered the low T besides the gym incident I decided

> to curtail the amounts of T down to .4 ml/ 100mg

> daily.  So far it las lowered incidence of shakiness

> but insomnia is horrible.  I can sometimes get 2-3

> really good symptom-free days then a return 1-2 weeks of all

> above symptoms. Worst is feeling fatigued and exhausted all

> day.  no morning wood really.  Sometimes get

> dreams and wake in the night with wood. Forget about lifting

> anything--I feel the effects for 2-3 days just from carrying

> my kid.  A new really wierd symptom is my groin

> vibrating, much liek a cell phone in my pocket, except that

> its not a cell phone.  comes for 2-3 days then comes

> back every 1-2 weeks.

>

> I thought about taking the Isocort in 4-3-2 dosage, afraid

> to take late at night based on cortisol saliva labs. 

>

> At this point I just want to know what is causing the

> problem and what to test and look for next before taking

> anything else that may not be the isssue so I am not stuck

> on anything for life unless I absolutely have to.  The

> local Pharma anti-aging specialist seems to think I have a

> leaky gut issue so suggests Priobiotic and digestive

> enzymes.  Thinks is could be malabsorption issue.

>

> Tks for reading my long sob story--legend.

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Legend when your Testosterone levels are low to start and you go on TRT I see

this all the time men would get put on a very low dose of Androgel 2.5 grams the

starting dose is 5 grams and in a short time less then 10 days then start to

feel like crap again what has happened here is they stopped making there own T

and all they have is what the low dose of gel is doing. So how this happens is

there brain sees the Testosterone in there blood and slows down sending the LH

and FSH messages from there Pituitary to there testis and this stop making T.

So now they are lower then they started I just talked to a poor guy 3 weeks ago

his Dr. told him stop reading the web it's all bull out there. He went to his

Family Dr. this Dr. that put him on the low dose of gel was an Endo. His test

for Total T come back lower then he started. And what he started with was only

230 he ended up at 123 all most half what is was at before the low dose of gel

his family Dr.

upped his gel to 7.5 grams I have not heard back from him this tells me it is

feeling better.

As for your HC you need to go up on your dose slow working your way up to 20 to

25 mgs total a day this supports your body and give your adrenals a rest so they

can heal.

My big Problem with most Dr.'s is they find a guy low on Testosterone and put

him on TRT without trying to figure out why he is low.

You now can have Dr. look at your labs and he can tell you what he thinks

about them he just started doing this. Or see if your Dr. will work with him

over the phone to test and treat you.

www.allthingsmale.com.

I have men posting to me all the time they tested for low T were put on TRT with

out finding why they are low and now they know and tried to come off TRT only to

keep crashing over and over again.

I just help a young man that just started Med School and got sick after taking

with him I found out he was over doing it training in the gym and told him don't

let his Dr. put him on TRT and his levels were dam low. I sent him to DR.

's forum and he seen Dr. and he has functional/exercise/malnutrition

induced hypogonadism. You can read his thread at this link.

http://www.musclechatroom.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14250

Now if he let his Dr. put him on TRT all this was be a mess.

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

>

>

> > From: legend888ls <legend888ls@...>

>

> > Subject: Some Test Results --would like

> review

>

> >

>

> > Date: Wednesday, July 7, 2010, 3:23 PM

>

> > Hello Mods,

>

> >

>

> > I posted here awhile back but I have several update.

>

> >

>

> > I found out just two months or so ago I have low T

> but

>

> > would like to get some feedback on my symptoms and

> labs and

>

> > current suggested treatments.  It's fairly

>

> > comprehensive and I think it gives those in the know

> a

>

> > better idea of what I am looking at and perhaps the

> next

>

> > course of action I need to take.  I am 40 and within

>

> > normal weight range, used to be highly active and no

>

> > emotional histories.  Never had a problem with wood,

>

> > hardness or libido before the gym.

>

> >

>

> > I never felt symptoms of anything until April 2009

> after a

>

> > workout.  I have seen quite a few here overdo it and

>

> > wonder if I suffer from the same issues.  After

>

> > completing a squatting routine  my left arm started

> to

>

> > shake and suffered from a panic attack then wired and

> tired

>

> > symptoms. Couldn't sleep for days.  I thought I was

>

> > going to die and went to the ER two days later. 

> They

>

> > found nothing wrong, although I was slightly

> dehydrated and

>

> > my liver levels were a bit elevated.  I never took

> any

>

> > supplements, drugs, or meds prior to this incident. 

>

> > Had MRI and CT head/neck, MRA, ultrasound

> liver/thyroid,

>

> > EMG, NCV all neg except mention of fatty liver but

>

> > minor.  All blood tests normal from ER.  So I was

>

> > sent home and told to visit GP.

>

> >

>

> > Went to GP, and after many other tests, including 24

> hr

>

> > epinephrine, Thyroid, and T.  All within the limits

> I

>

> > was told.  Meanwhile the insomnia was still there,

> was

>

> > having some dull achy pressure in the back of my

> neck,shaky

>

> > upper body, felt wired but tired all day, and

> continued to

>

> > suffer from occasional panic attacks and anxiety. 

> Even

>

> > after seeing endos, neurologists, GI, and internal

> medicine

>

> > docs, the GP concluded it was all in my head and

> pushed the

>

> > usual Klonopin, Ambien, Zoloft and their variables. 

> Of

>

> > course as I realized later this just added on side

> effects

>

> > and made my condition worse.

>

> >

>

> > I am am trying to keep this sermon short but the

> picture

>

> > will not be complete.  After placing faith and trust

> in

>

> > all these docs for many months who basically screwed

> me up

>

> > with masking tape and their faliures to follow up and

>

> > identify the underlying issues, I decided to take on

> matters

>

> > and address the labs I had.  Back in may 09 I

> reviewed

>

> > the T test and it was blatantly obvious to me the T

> levels

>

> > were borderline low (330 total, 11 free T).  Little

> did

>

> > I know they were on the decline until I had follow up

> tests

>

> > these past couple of months.  Just to make sure had

>

> > them done with ZRT AND Labcorp.  The results were

> very

>

> > similar.  But what is the cause of the low T and is

> it

>

> > provoking my current symtpoms of upper body weakness

> and

>

> > muscle tone loss, shaky internal feelings, extreme

> fatigue

>

> > exhaustion and insomnia?

>

> >

>

> > So I had further tests done, here they are:

>

> >

>

> > Cortisol (in ng/ml):

>

> > AM     5.5  (3.7-9.5)

>

> > noon   1.3  (1.2-3.0)

>

> > eve    0.4L (0.6-1.9)

>

> > night  0.3L (0.4-1.0)

>

> >

>

> > Estradiol     21    12-56

>

> > pg/ml

>

> > Test Total    257L  400-1200 nm/dl

>

> > free t        7.5L  8.7-25.1

>

> > pg/ml

>

> > ratio T/SHBG  0.2L  0.7-1.0

>

> > DHEAS     

>

> >    171   70-325 ug/dl

>

> > SHBG          49   

>

> > 15-50 nmol/L

>

> > PSA       

>

> >    1.8   <0.5-4 (opt

>

> > 0.5-2)

>

> > Free T4   

>

> >    1.5   0.7-2.5 ng/dl

>

> > free T3   

>

> >    3.2   2.5-6.5 pg/ml

>

> > TSH           3.5 H

>

> > 0.5-3.0 uu/ml

>

> > TPO           8 

>

> >    0-150 iu/ml

>

> > anti AB   

>

> >    <20   0-40

>

> > dihydrotest   36    30-85 ng/dl

>

> > T3           

>

> > 112   71-180 ng/dl

>

> > RT3       

>

> >    215   90-350 pg/ml

>

> > Progesterone  0.4   0.2-1.4 ng/ml

>

> > Ferritin      183   30-400

>

> > B12       

>

> >    422   211-911

>

> > D3 25 OH      37.6  32-100

>

> > Cholesterol   242   100-199

>

> > Triglyc   

>

> >    331   0-149

>

> > HDL           36 

>

> >   >39

>

> > VLDL          66   

>

> > 5-49

>

> > LDL       

>

> >    140   0-99

>

> > Folate       

>

> > >24   >5.4

>

> > hemoglobin    5.4   <7.0 

>

> > (healthy 4.8-4.9)

>

> > B6            22.3 

>

> > 5.3-46.7

>

> > Sed Rate west 1     0-15

>

> > Creatine Kin  79    24-204

>

> > C-reative Pro 0.4   0.0-4.9

>

> > Glucose Serum 89    65-99

>

> > Creatinine Ser1.27  0.76 - 1.27

>

> > Sodium Ser    140   135-145

>

> > Potassium 

>

> >    4.3   3.5-5.2

>

> > Calcium       10.1  8.7-10.2

>

> > Protein   

>

> >    7.5   6.0-8.5

>

> > AST           24 

>

> >   0-40

>

> > AGT           29 

>

> >   0-55

>

> >

>

> > So the recommedation from a so-so literate doc on T

> and

>

> > thyoid is low does T3 Cytomel and 100 mg/10 ml T

> compounded

>

> > as well as 5 mg cortef @ 12 and 4 daily.  I was not

>

> > convinced this is the right thing to do b/c he is

> addressing

>

> > labs and not the cause.

>

> >

>

> > since I don't want to be on T for life and have no

> idea

>

> > what triggered the low T besides the gym incident I

> decided

>

> > to curtail the amounts of T down to .4 ml/ 100mg

>

> > daily.  So far it las lowered incidence of shakiness

>

> > but insomnia is horrible.  I can sometimes get 2-3

>

> > really good symptom-free days then a return 1-2 weeks

> of all

>

> > above symptoms. Worst is feeling fatigued and

> exhausted all

>

> > day.  no morning wood really.  Sometimes get

>

> > dreams and wake in the night with wood. Forget about

> lifting

>

> > anything--I feel the effects for 2-3 days just from

> carrying

>

> > my kid.  A new really wierd symptom is my groin

>

> > vibrating, much liek a cell phone in my pocket, except

> that

>

> > its not a cell phone.  comes for 2-3 days then comes

>

> > back every 1-2 weeks.

>

> >

>

> > I thought about taking the Isocort in 4-3-2 dosage,

> afraid

>

> > to take late at night based on cortisol saliva labs. 

>

>

> >

>

> > At this point I just want to know what is causing the

>

> > problem and what to test and look for next before

> taking

>

> > anything else that may not be the isssue so I am not

> stuck

>

> > on anything for life unless I absolutely have to. 

> The

>

> > local Pharma anti-aging specialist seems to think I

> have a

>

> > leaky gut issue so suggests Priobiotic and digestive

>

> > enzymes.  Thinks is could be malabsorption issue.

>

> >

>

> > Tks for reading my long sob story--legend.

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > ------------------------------------

>

> >

>

> >

[Guest guest]

Yes, the doc I am seeing now and his methods are exactly why I need to visit one

that knows what the hell is going on here.  I was lucky enough to find a doc

who was voluntarily willing to prescribe TRT and HC but I think he is haphazard

with his thinking and not exploring causation.  I have hailed Dr Overbeck since

he is local (I am in NJ) and read good things about him that perhaps could lead

to proper diag and treatments.

Diff between the guy below and me is I feel like crap regardless of TRT and

don't know comparison of Androgel 2.5g vs compounded 0.4ml/100g and potency.  I

don't doubt what you are saying but am hoping the small amount I have been

taking has little effect since could be Adrenals are the center of issue.

Tks again---legend

>

>

>

> > From: legend888ls <legend888ls@...>

>

> > Subject: Some Test Results --would like

> review

>

> >

>

> > Date: Wednesday, July 7, 2010, 3:23 PM

>

> > Hello Mods,

>

> >

>

> > I posted here awhile back but I have several update.

>

> >

>

> > I found out just two months or so ago I have low T

> but

>

> > would like to get some feedback on my symptoms and

> labs and

>

> > current suggested treatments.  It's fairly

>

> > comprehensive and I think it gives those in the know

> a

>

> > better idea of what I am looking at and perhaps the

> next

>

> > course of action I need to take.  I am 40 and within

>

> > normal weight range, used to be highly active and no

>

> > emotional histories.  Never had a problem with wood,

>

> > hardness or libido before the gym.

>

> >

>

> > I never felt symptoms of anything until April 2009

> after a

>

> > workout.  I have seen quite a few here overdo it and

>

> > wonder if I suffer from the same issues.  After

>

> > completing a squatting routine  my left arm started

> to

>

> > shake and suffered from a panic attack then wired and

> tired

>

> > symptoms. Couldn't sleep for days.  I thought I was

>

> > going to die and went to the ER two days later. 

> They

>

> > found nothing wrong, although I was slightly

> dehydrated and

>

> > my liver levels were a bit elevated.  I never took

> any

>

> > supplements, drugs, or meds prior to this incident. 

>

> > Had MRI and CT head/neck, MRA, ultrasound

> liver/thyroid,

>

> > EMG, NCV all neg except mention of fatty liver but

>

> > minor.  All blood tests normal from ER.  So I was

>

> > sent home and told to visit GP.

>

> >

>

> > Went to GP, and after many other tests, including 24

> hr

>

> > epinephrine, Thyroid, and T.  All within the limits

> I

>

> > was told.  Meanwhile the insomnia was still there,

> was

>

> > having some dull achy pressure in the back of my

> neck,shaky

>

> > upper body, felt wired but tired all day, and

> continued to

>

> > suffer from occasional panic attacks and anxiety. 

> Even

>

> > after seeing endos, neurologists, GI, and internal

> medicine

>

> > docs, the GP concluded it was all in my head and

> pushed the

>

> > usual Klonopin, Ambien, Zoloft and their variables. 

> Of

>

> > course as I realized later this just added on side

> effects

>

> > and made my condition worse.

>

> >

>

> > I am am trying to keep this sermon short but the

> picture

>

> > will not be complete.  After placing faith and trust

> in

>

> > all these docs for many months who basically screwed

> me up

>

> > with masking tape and their faliures to follow up and

>

> > identify the underlying issues, I decided to take on

> matters

>

> > and address the labs I had.  Back in may 09 I

> reviewed

>

> > the T test and it was blatantly obvious to me the T

> levels

>

> > were borderline low (330 total, 11 free T).  Little

> did

>

> > I know they were on the decline until I had follow up

> tests

>

> > these past couple of months.  Just to make sure had

>

> > them done with ZRT AND Labcorp.  The results were

> very

>

> > similar.  But what is the cause of the low T and is

> it

>

> > provoking my current symtpoms of upper body weakness

> and

>

> > muscle tone loss, shaky internal feelings, extreme

> fatigue

>

> > exhaustion and insomnia?

>

> >

>

> > So I had further tests done, here they are:

>

> >

>

> > Cortisol (in ng/ml):

>

> > AM     5.5  (3.7-9.5)

>

> > noon   1.3  (1.2-3.0)

>

> > eve    0.4L (0.6-1.9)

>

> > night  0.3L (0.4-1.0)

>

> >

>

> > Estradiol     21    12-56

>

> > pg/ml

>

> > Test Total    257L  400-1200 nm/dl

>

> > free t        7.5L  8.7-25.1

>

> > pg/ml

>

> > ratio T/SHBG  0.2L  0.7-1.0

>

> > DHEAS     

>

> >    171   70-325 ug/dl

>

> > SHBG          49   

>

> > 15-50 nmol/L

>

> > PSA       

>

> >    1.8   <0.5-4 (opt

>

> > 0.5-2)

>

> > Free T4   

>

> >    1.5   0.7-2.5 ng/dl

>

> > free T3   

>

> >    3.2   2.5-6.5 pg/ml

>

> > TSH           3.5 H

>

> > 0.5-3.0 uu/ml

>

> > TPO           8 

>

> >    0-150 iu/ml

>

> > anti AB   

>

> >    <20   0-40

>

> > dihydrotest   36    30-85 ng/dl

>

> > T3           

>

> > 112   71-180 ng/dl

>

> > RT3       

>

> >    215   90-350 pg/ml

>

> > Progesterone  0.4   0.2-1.4 ng/ml

>

> > Ferritin      183   30-400

>

> > B12       

>

> >    422   211-911

>

> > D3 25 OH      37.6  32-100

>

> > Cholesterol   242   100-199

>

> > Triglyc   

>

> >    331   0-149

>

> > HDL           36 

>

> >   >39

>

> > VLDL          66   

>

> > 5-49

>

> > LDL       

>

> >    140   0-99

>

> > Folate       

>

> > >24   >5.4

>

> > hemoglobin    5.4   <7.0 

>

> > (healthy 4.8-4.9)

>

> > B6            22.3 

>

> > 5.3-46.7

>

> > Sed Rate west 1     0-15

>

> > Creatine Kin  79    24-204

>

> > C-reative Pro 0.4   0.0-4.9

>

> > Glucose Serum 89    65-99

>

> > Creatinine Ser1.27  0.76 - 1.27

>

> > Sodium Ser    140   135-145

>

> > Potassium 

>

> >    4.3   3.5-5.2

>

> > Calcium       10.1  8.7-10.2

>

> > Protein   

>

> >    7.5   6.0-8.5

>

> > AST           24 

>

> >   0-40

>

> > AGT           29 

>

> >   0-55

>

> >

>

> > So the recommedation from a so-so literate doc on T

> and

>

> > thyoid is low does T3 Cytomel and 100 mg/10 ml T

> compounded

>

> > as well as 5 mg cortef @ 12 and 4 daily.  I was not

>

> > convinced this is the right thing to do b/c he is

> addressing

>

> > labs and not the cause.

>

> >

>

> > since I don't want to be on T for life and have no

> idea

>

> > what triggered the low T besides the gym incident I

> decided

>

> > to curtail the amounts of T down to .4 ml/ 100mg

>

> > daily.  So far it las lowered incidence of shakiness

>

> > but insomnia is horrible.  I can sometimes get 2-3

>

> > really good symptom-free days then a return 1-2 weeks

> of all

>

> > above symptoms. Worst is feeling fatigued and

> exhausted all

>

> > day.  no morning wood really.  Sometimes get

>

> > dreams and wake in the night with wood. Forget about

> lifting

>

> > anything--I feel the effects for 2-3 days just from

> carrying

>

> > my kid.  A new really wierd symptom is my groin

>

> > vibrating, much liek a cell phone in my pocket, except

> that

>

> > its not a cell phone.  comes for 2-3 days then comes

>

> > back every 1-2 weeks.

>

> >

>

> > I thought about taking the Isocort in 4-3-2 dosage,

> afraid

>

> > to take late at night based on cortisol saliva labs. 

>

>

> >

>

> > At this point I just want to know what is causing the

>

> > problem and what to test and look for next before

> taking

>

> > anything else that may not be the isssue so I am not

> stuck

>

> > on anything for life unless I absolutely have to. 

> The

>

> > local Pharma anti-aging specialist seems to think I

> have a

>

> > leaky gut issue so suggests Priobiotic and digestive

>

> > enzymes.  Thinks is could be malabsorption issue.

>

> >

>

> > Tks for reading my long sob story--legend.

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > ------------------------------------

>

> >

>

> >

[Guest guest]

Well if you can see Hardasnails and Dr. O your going to be in good hands they

are great.

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > > From: legend888ls <legend888ls@...>

>

> >

>

> > > Subject: Some Test Results --would

> like

>

> > review

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > Date: Wednesday, July 7, 2010, 3:23 PM

>

> >

>

> > > Hello Mods,

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > I posted here awhile back but I have several

> update.

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > I found out just two months or so ago I have low

> T

>

> > but

>

> >

>

> > > would like to get some feedback on my symptoms

> and

>

> > labs and

>

> >

>

> > > current suggested treatments.  It's fairly

>

> >

>

> > > comprehensive and I think it gives those in the

> know

>

> > a

>

> >

>

> > > better idea of what I am looking at and perhaps

> the

>

> > next

>

> >

>

> > > course of action I need to take.  I am 40 and

> within

>

> >

>

> > > normal weight range, used to be highly active and

> no

>

> >

>

> > > emotional histories.  Never had a problem with

> wood,

>

> >

>

> > > hardness or libido before the gym.

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > I never felt symptoms of anything until April

> 2009

>

> > after a

>

> >

>

> > > workout.  I have seen quite a few here overdo it

> and

>

> >

>

> > > wonder if I suffer from the same issues.  After

>

> >

>

> > > completing a squatting routine  my left arm

> started

>

> > to

>

> >

>

> > > shake and suffered from a panic attack then wired

> and

>

> > tired

>

> >

>

> > > symptoms. Couldn't sleep for days.  I thought I

> was

>

> >

>

> > > going to die and went to the ER two days

> later. 

>

> > They

>

> >

>

> > > found nothing wrong, although I was slightly

>

> > dehydrated and

>

> >

>

> > > my liver levels were a bit elevated.  I never

> took

>

> > any

>

> >

>

> > > supplements, drugs, or meds prior to this

> incident. 

>

> >

>

> > > Had MRI and CT head/neck, MRA, ultrasound

>

> > liver/thyroid,

>

> >

>

> > > EMG, NCV all neg except mention of fatty liver

> but

>

> >

>

> > > minor.  All blood tests normal from ER.  So I

> was

>

> >

>

> > > sent home and told to visit GP.

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > Went to GP, and after many other tests, including

> 24

>

> > hr

>

> >

>

> > > epinephrine, Thyroid, and T.  All within the

> limits

>

> > I

>

> >

>

> > > was told.  Meanwhile the insomnia was still

> there,

>

> > was

>

> >

>

> > > having some dull achy pressure in the back of my

>

> > neck,shaky

>

> >

>

> > > upper body, felt wired but tired all day, and

>

> > continued to

>

> >

>

> > > suffer from occasional panic attacks and

> anxiety. 

>

> > Even

>

> >

>

> > > after seeing endos, neurologists, GI, and

> internal

>

> > medicine

>

> >

>

> > > docs, the GP concluded it was all in my head and

>

> > pushed the

>

> >

>

> > > usual Klonopin, Ambien, Zoloft and their

> variables. 

>

> > Of

>

> >

>

> > > course as I realized later this just added on

> side

>

> > effects

>

> >

>

> > > and made my condition worse.

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > I am am trying to keep this sermon short but the

>

> > picture

>

> >

>

> > > will not be complete.  After placing faith and

> trust

>

> > in

>

> >

>

> > > all these docs for many months who basically

> screwed

>

> > me up

>

> >

>

> > > with masking tape and their faliures to follow up

> and

>

> >

>

> > > identify the underlying issues, I decided to take

> on

>

> > matters

>

> >

>

> > > and address the labs I had.  Back in may 09 I

>

> > reviewed

>

> >

>

> > > the T test and it was blatantly obvious to me the

> T

>

> > levels

>

> >

>

> > > were borderline low (330 total, 11 free T). 

> Little

>

> > did

>

> >

>

> > > I know they were on the decline until I had

> follow up

>

> > tests

>

> >

>

> > > these past couple of months.  Just to make sure

> had

>

> >

>

> > > them done with ZRT AND Labcorp.  The results

> were

>

> > very

>

> >

>

> > > similar.  But what is the cause of the low T and

> is

>

> > it

>

> >

>

> > > provoking my current symtpoms of upper body

> weakness

>

> > and

>

> >

>

> > > muscle tone loss, shaky internal feelings,

> extreme

>

> > fatigue

>

> >

>

> > > exhaustion and insomnia?

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > So I had further tests done, here they are:

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > Cortisol (in ng/ml):

>

> >

>

> > > AM     5.5  (3.7-9.5)

>

> >

>

> > > noon   1.3  (1.2-3.0)

>

> >

>

> > > eve    0.4L (0.6-1.9)

>

> >

>

> > > night  0.3L (0.4-1.0)

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > Estradiol     21    12-56

>

> >

>

> > > pg/ml

>

> >

>

> > > Test Total    257L  400-1200 nm/dl

>

> >

>

> > > free t        7.5L  8.7-25.1

>

> >

>

> > > pg/ml

>

> >

>

> > > ratio T/SHBG  0.2L  0.7-1.0

>

> >

>

> > > DHEAS     

>

> >

>

> > >    171   70-325 ug/dl

>

> >

>

> > > SHBG          49   

>

> >

>

> > > 15-50 nmol/L

>

> >

>

> > > PSA       

>

> >

>

> > >    1.8   <0.5-4 (opt

>

> >

>

> > > 0.5-2)

>

> >

>

> > > Free T4   

>

> >

>

> > >    1.5   0.7-2.5 ng/dl

>

> >

>

> > > free T3   

>

> >

>

> > >    3.2   2.5-6.5 pg/ml

>

> >

>

> > > TSH           3.5 H

>

> >

>

> > > 0.5-3.0 uu/ml

>

> >

>

> > > TPO           8 

>

> >

>

> > >    0-150 iu/ml

>

> >

>

> > > anti AB   

>

> >

>

> > >    <20   0-40

>

> >

>

> > > dihydrotest   36    30-85 ng/dl

>

> >

>

> > > T3           

>

> >

>

> > > 112   71-180 ng/dl

>

> >

>

> > > RT3       

>

> >

>

> > >    215   90-350 pg/ml

>

> >

>

> > > Progesterone  0.4   0.2-1.4 ng/ml

>

> >

>

> > > Ferritin      183   30-400

>

> >

>

> > > B12       

>

> >

>

> > >    422   211-911

>

> >

>

> > > D3 25 OH      37.6  32-100

>

> >

>

> > > Cholesterol   242   100-199

>

> >

>

> > > Triglyc   

>

> >

>

> > >    331   0-149

>

> >

>

> > > HDL           36 

>

> >

>

> > >   >39

>

> >

>

> > > VLDL          66   

>

> >

>

> > > 5-49

>

> >

>

> > > LDL       

>

> >

>

> > >    140   0-99

>

> >

>

> > > Folate       

>

> >

>

> > > >24   >5.4

>

> >

>

> > > hemoglobin    5.4   <7.0 

>

> >

>

> > > (healthy 4.8-4.9)

>

> >

>

> > > B6            22.3 

>

> >

>

> > > 5.3-46.7

>

> >

>

> > > Sed Rate west 1     0-15

>

> >

>

> > > Creatine Kin  79    24-204

>

> >

>

> > > C-reative Pro 0.4   0.0-4.9

>

> >

>

> > > Glucose Serum 89    65-99

>

> >

>

> > > Creatinine Ser1.27  0.76 - 1.27

>

> >

>

> > > Sodium Ser    140   135-145

>

> >

>

> > > Potassium 

>

> >

>

> > >    4.3   3.5-5.2

>

> >

>

> > > Calcium       10.1  8.7-10.2

>

> >

>

> > > Protein   

>

> >

>

> > >    7.5   6.0-8.5

>

> >

>

> > > AST           24 

>

> >

>

> > >   0-40

>

> >

>

> > > AGT           29 

>

> >

>

> > >   0-55

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > So the recommedation from a so-so literate doc on

> T

>

> > and

>

> >

>

> > > thyoid is low does T3 Cytomel and 100 mg/10 ml T

>

> > compounded

>

> >

>

> > > as well as 5 mg cortef @ 12 and 4 daily.  I was

> not

>

> >

>

> > > convinced this is the right thing to do b/c he

> is

>

> > addressing

>

> >

>

> > > labs and not the cause.

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > since I don't want to be on T for life and have

> no

>

> > idea

>

> >

>

> > > what triggered the low T besides the gym incident

> I

>

> > decided

>

> >

>

> > > to curtail the amounts of T down to .4 ml/ 100mg

>

> >

>

> > > daily.  So far it las lowered incidence of

> shakiness

>

> >

>

> > > but insomnia is horrible.  I can sometimes get

> 2-3

>

> >

>

> > > really good symptom-free days then a return 1-2

> weeks

>

> > of all

>

> >

>

> > > above symptoms. Worst is feeling fatigued and

>

> > exhausted all

>

> >

>

> > > day.  no morning wood really.  Sometimes get

>

> >

>

> > > dreams and wake in the night with wood. Forget

> about

>

> > lifting

>

> >

>

> > > anything--I feel the effects for 2-3 days just

> from

>

> > carrying

>

> >

>

> > > my kid.  A new really wierd symptom is my groin

>

> >

>

> > > vibrating, much liek a cell phone in my pocket,

> except

>

> > that

>

> >

>

> > > its not a cell phone.  comes for 2-3 days then

> comes

>

> >

>

> > > back every 1-2 weeks.

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > I thought about taking the Isocort in 4-3-2

> dosage,

>

> > afraid

>

> >

>

> > > to take late at night based on cortisol saliva

> labs. 

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > At this point I just want to know what is causing

> the

>

> >

>

> > > problem and what to test and look for next

> before

>

> > taking

>

> >

>

> > > anything else that may not be the isssue so I am

> not

>

> > stuck

>

> >

>

> > > on anything for life unless I absolutely have

> to. 

>

> > The

>

> >

>

> > > local Pharma anti-aging specialist seems to think

> I

>

> > have a

>

> >

>

> > > leaky gut issue so suggests Priobiotic and

> digestive

>

> >

>

> > > enzymes.  Thinks is could be malabsorption

> issue.

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > Tks for reading my long sob story--legend.

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > ------------------------------------

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > >