Guest guest Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 Yes it sould work try it take this with TMG. http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0 http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals-TMG-Trimethylglycine-750-mg-240-Tablets/141\ 9?at=0 It's the Estradiol that does this so if you take anything to get it down it will help. Take the DIM with food at dinner time and the TMG at bedtime. Keep me posted how this works for you and how your feeling so you don't end up to low. Co-Moderator Phil > From: john moody <moody5521@...> > Subject: DIM? > > Date: Friday, April 1, 2011, 4:38 PM > If you are not on TRT but have a high > E level can you take DIM to help with gyno > and maybe get your T level to rise by helping me lose fat > more efficiently which > is converting my T to E? > > Thanks. > > Anybody that knows DIM products can respond... > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 Thanks. Not clear what TMG is about or why it goes with DIM? If it has been explained here before - I apologize. Thanks, ________________________________ From: philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> Sent: Fri, April 1, 2011 5:14:46 PM Subject: Re: DIM? Yes it sould work try it take this with TMG. http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0 http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals-TMG-Trimethylglycine-750-mg-240-Tablets/141\ 9?at=0 It's the Estradiol that does this so if you take anything to get it down it will help. Take the DIM with food at dinner time and the TMG at bedtime. Keep me posted how this works for you and how your feeling so you don't end up to low. Co-Moderator Phil > From: john moody <moody5521@...> > Subject: DIM? > > Date: Friday, April 1, 2011, 4:38 PM > If you are not on TRT but have a high > E level can you take DIM to help with gyno > and maybe get your T level to rise by helping me lose fat > more efficiently which > is converting my T to E? > > Thanks. > > Anybody that knows DIM products can respond... > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 Here is a cut and paste why Dr. feels we need TMG with DIM and some links to the best kind of DIM to use there is a lot of junk out there. http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0 My Heart Dr. has me taking TMG and B Vit.'s to keep my Homocysteine Cardiovasecular 9.2 range <11.4 umo/L. levels down. http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals-TMG-Trimethylglycine-750-mg-240-Tablets/141\ 9?at=0 Here is a cut and paste why Dr. feels we need TMG or DMG with DIM. ==================================================== I have seen several studies which showed that while DIM improves the 2-OHE/16-a-OHE ratio, it also increases the bad 4-OHE. TMG, or its child DMG (although TMG is much better because it has already donated a valuable methyl group by the time it becomes DMG) will help flush the 4-OHE downstream. Taking TMG/DMG is important on its own, even in absence of DIM supplementation. But I would not take DIM without it. --------------------------------------------------- The following is what Dr. M says about lower E2 with DIM and other things. ==================================================== My interpretation of the above articles is that: 1. DIM blocks DHT from binding to androgen-receptors in the Prostate. This is a good thing - it reduces the risk of prostate cancer from testosterone replacement therapy. 2. DIM does not stop the production of DHT. For DIM to do so, it has to inhibit the reductase enzyme that converts testosterone to DHT. The articles do not indicate that this is occurring. In regard to how DIM works, it blocks certain Cytochrome P450 enzymes in the liver which convert Estrogens to more proliferative, cancerous types of estrogens. This forces the liver to use other pathways, which convert estrogens to non-proliferative, safer, and less potent estrogens. Thus, overall estrogen activity is reduced by DIM. Arimidex blocks the aromatase enzyme that converts testosterone to estrogens, thus lowering the production of estrogens and thus lowering estrogen activity. There are other substances which also block the aromatase enzyme - including 6-OXO (an over-the-counter supplement), Aromasin, etc.. Which do you want to use? Either choice is valid. It will depend on the individual's response, how easy it is to control estrogen activity, cost, etc. Other factors: 1. Arimidex is by prescription and is very expensive. 2. 6-OXO is over-the-counter, but dosing guidelines are not clear. 3. DIM is over-the-counter, is relatively expensive for what you get. There are pitfalls - such as " DIM-complex " - which water down the DIM concentration by adding additives. 4. Broccoli and I3C - both precursors to DIM can be used. But they require you to avoid antacids, needing acidity in the stomach to break them down and create DIM. In any case, you will have to monitor your estrogen levels via blood testing to determine how much of each you want to use. __________________ Any statement I make on this site is for educational purposes only and will change as medical knowledge progresses. It does not constitute medical advice, does not substitute for proper medical evaluation from physician, does not create a doctor/patient relationship or liability. If you would like medical advice, please ask your doctor. Thank you. Co-Moderator Phil > > > From: john moody <moody5521@...> > > Subject: DIM? > > > > Date: Friday, April 1, 2011, 4:38 PM > > If you are not on TRT but have a high > > E level can you take DIM to help with gyno > > and maybe get your T level to rise by helping me lose > fat > > more efficiently which > > is converting my T to E? > > > > Thanks. > > > > Anybody that knows DIM products can respond... > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 DIM does the initial step to removing excess bad estrogens by promoting estradiol to convert more to a safer metabolite. But the liver still needs to remove the estrogen metabolites and TMG or DMG assist this. -Nigel On 2 April 2011 10:26, philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote: > > > Here is a cut and paste why Dr. feels we need TMG with DIM and some > links to the best kind of DIM to use there is a lot of junk out there. > > > > http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0 > > My Heart Dr. has me taking TMG and B Vit.'s to keep my Homocysteine > Cardiovasecular 9.2 range <11.4 umo/L. levels down. > > > > http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals-TMG-Trimethylglycine-750-mg-240-Tablets/141\ 9?at=0 > Here is a cut and paste why Dr. feels we need TMG or DMG with DIM. > ==================================================== > I have seen several studies which showed that while DIM improves the > 2-OHE/16-a-OHE ratio, it also increases the bad 4-OHE. TMG, or its child DMG > (although TMG is much better because it has already donated a valuable > methyl group by the time it becomes DMG) will help flush the 4-OHE > downstream. > > Taking TMG/DMG is important on its own, even in absence of DIM > supplementation. But I would not take DIM without it. > --------------------------------------------------- > The following is what Dr. M says about lower E2 with DIM and other things. > ==================================================== > My interpretation of the above articles is that: > 1. DIM blocks DHT from binding to androgen-receptors in the Prostate. This > is a good thing - it reduces the risk of prostate cancer from testosterone > replacement therapy. > > 2. DIM does not stop the production of DHT. For DIM to do so, it has to > inhibit the reductase enzyme that converts testosterone to DHT. The articles > do not indicate that this is occurring. > > In regard to how DIM works, it blocks certain Cytochrome P450 enzymes in > the liver which convert Estrogens to more proliferative, cancerous types of > estrogens. This forces the liver to use other pathways, which convert > estrogens to non-proliferative, safer, and less potent estrogens. Thus, > overall estrogen activity is reduced by DIM. > > Arimidex blocks the aromatase enzyme that converts testosterone to > estrogens, thus lowering the production of estrogens and thus lowering > estrogen activity. There are other substances which also block the aromatase > enzyme - including 6-OXO (an over-the-counter supplement), Aromasin, etc.. > > Which do you want to use? Either choice is valid. It will depend on the > individual's response, how easy it is to control estrogen activity, cost, > etc. > > Other factors: > 1. Arimidex is by prescription and is very expensive. > 2. 6-OXO is over-the-counter, but dosing guidelines are not clear. > 3. DIM is over-the-counter, is relatively expensive for what you get. There > are pitfalls - such as " DIM-complex " - which water down the DIM > concentration by adding additives. > 4. Broccoli and I3C - both precursors to DIM can be used. But they require > you to avoid antacids, needing acidity in the stomach to break them down and > create DIM. > > In any case, you will have to monitor your estrogen levels via blood > testing to determine how much of each you want to use. > __________________ > Any statement I make on this site is for educational purposes only and will > change as medical knowledge progresses. It does not constitute medical > advice, does not substitute for proper medical evaluation from physician, > does not create a doctor/patient relationship or liability. If you would > like medical advice, please ask your doctor. Thank you. > > Co-Moderator > Phil > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 Yes and TMG helps with your Homocysteine Cardiovasecular levels to lower them it's not high Cholesterol that is bad for your heart it's high Homocysteine levels it's inflammation in your blood. Co-Moderator Phil > > > > > > > Here is a cut and paste why Dr. feels we need TMG > with DIM and some > > links to the best kind of DIM to use there is a lot of > junk out there. > > > > > > > > http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0 > > > > My Heart Dr. has me taking TMG and B Vit.'s to keep my > Homocysteine > > Cardiovasecular 9.2 range <11.4 umo/L. levels > down. > > > > > > > > http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals-TMG-Trimethylglycine-750-mg-240-Tablets/141\ 9?at=0 > > Here is a cut and paste why Dr. feels we need TMG > or DMG with DIM. > > ==================================================== > > I have seen several studies which showed that while > DIM improves the > > 2-OHE/16-a-OHE ratio, it also increases the bad 4-OHE. > TMG, or its child DMG > > (although TMG is much better because it has already > donated a valuable > > methyl group by the time it becomes DMG) will help > flush the 4-OHE > > downstream. > > > > Taking TMG/DMG is important on its own, even in > absence of DIM > > supplementation. But I would not take DIM without it. > > --------------------------------------------------- > > The following is what Dr. M says about lower E2 with > DIM and other things. > > ==================================================== > > My interpretation of the above articles is that: > > 1. DIM blocks DHT from binding to androgen-receptors > in the Prostate. This > > is a good thing - it reduces the risk of prostate > cancer from testosterone > > replacement therapy. > > > > 2. DIM does not stop the production of DHT. For DIM to > do so, it has to > > inhibit the reductase enzyme that converts > testosterone to DHT. The articles > > do not indicate that this is occurring. > > > > In regard to how DIM works, it blocks certain > Cytochrome P450 enzymes in > > the liver which convert Estrogens to more > proliferative, cancerous types of > > estrogens. This forces the liver to use other > pathways, which convert > > estrogens to non-proliferative, safer, and less potent > estrogens. Thus, > > overall estrogen activity is reduced by DIM. > > > > Arimidex blocks the aromatase enzyme that converts > testosterone to > > estrogens, thus lowering the production of estrogens > and thus lowering > > estrogen activity. There are other substances which > also block the aromatase > > enzyme - including 6-OXO (an over-the-counter > supplement), Aromasin, etc.. > > > > Which do you want to use? Either choice is valid. It > will depend on the > > individual's response, how easy it is to control > estrogen activity, cost, > > etc. > > > > Other factors: > > 1. Arimidex is by prescription and is very expensive. > > 2. 6-OXO is over-the-counter, but dosing guidelines > are not clear. > > 3. DIM is over-the-counter, is relatively expensive > for what you get. There > > are pitfalls - such as " DIM-complex " - which water > down the DIM > > concentration by adding additives. > > 4. Broccoli and I3C - both precursors to DIM can be > used. But they require > > you to avoid antacids, needing acidity in the stomach > to break them down and > > create DIM. > > > > In any case, you will have to monitor your estrogen > levels via blood > > testing to determine how much of each you want to > use. > > __________________ > > Any statement I make on this site is for educational > purposes only and will > > change as medical knowledge progresses. It does not > constitute medical > > advice, does not substitute for proper medical > evaluation from physician, > > does not create a doctor/patient relationship or > liability. If you would > > like medical advice, please ask your doctor. Thank > you. > > > > Co-Moderator > > Phil > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 should one take TMG regardless of Estrogen levels? ________________________________ From: philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> Sent: Sat, April 2, 2011 2:32:13 PM Subject: Re: DIM? Yes and TMG helps with your Homocysteine Cardiovasecular levels to lower them it's not high Cholesterol that is bad for your heart it's high Homocysteine levels it's inflammation in your blood. Co-Moderator Phil > > > > > > > Here is a cut and paste why Dr. feels we need TMG > with DIM and some > > links to the best kind of DIM to use there is a lot of > junk out there. > > > > > > > > >http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0 > > > > My Heart Dr. has me taking TMG and B Vit.'s to keep my > Homocysteine > > Cardiovasecular 9.2 range <11.4 umo/L. levels > down. > > > > > > > > >http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals-TMG-Trimethylglycine-750-mg-240-Tablets/14\ 19?at=0 > > > Here is a cut and paste why Dr. feels we need TMG > or DMG with DIM. > > ==================================================== > > I have seen several studies which showed that while > DIM improves the > > 2-OHE/16-a-OHE ratio, it also increases the bad 4-OHE. > TMG, or its child DMG > > (although TMG is much better because it has already > donated a valuable > > methyl group by the time it becomes DMG) will help > flush the 4-OHE > > downstream. > > > > Taking TMG/DMG is important on its own, even in > absence of DIM > > supplementation. But I would not take DIM without it. > > --------------------------------------------------- > > The following is what Dr. M says about lower E2 with > DIM and other things. > > ==================================================== > > My interpretation of the above articles is that: > > 1. DIM blocks DHT from binding to androgen-receptors > in the Prostate. This > > is a good thing - it reduces the risk of prostate > cancer from testosterone > > replacement therapy. > > > > 2. DIM does not stop the production of DHT. For DIM to > do so, it has to > > inhibit the reductase enzyme that converts > testosterone to DHT. The articles > > do not indicate that this is occurring. > > > > In regard to how DIM works, it blocks certain > Cytochrome P450 enzymes in > > the liver which convert Estrogens to more > proliferative, cancerous types of > > estrogens. This forces the liver to use other > pathways, which convert > > estrogens to non-proliferative, safer, and less potent > estrogens. Thus, > > overall estrogen activity is reduced by DIM. > > > > Arimidex blocks the aromatase enzyme that converts > testosterone to > > estrogens, thus lowering the production of estrogens > and thus lowering > > estrogen activity. There are other substances which > also block the aromatase > > enzyme - including 6-OXO (an over-the-counter > supplement), Aromasin, etc.. > > > > Which do you want to use? Either choice is valid. It > will depend on the > > individual's response, how easy it is to control > estrogen activity, cost, > > etc. > > > > Other factors: > > 1. Arimidex is by prescription and is very expensive. > > 2. 6-OXO is over-the-counter, but dosing guidelines > are not clear. > > 3. DIM is over-the-counter, is relatively expensive > for what you get. There > > are pitfalls - such as " DIM-complex " - which water > down the DIM > > concentration by adding additives. > > 4. Broccoli and I3C - both precursors to DIM can be > used. But they require > > you to avoid antacids, needing acidity in the stomach > to break them down and > > create DIM. > > > > In any case, you will have to monitor your estrogen > levels via blood > > testing to determine how much of each you want to > use. > > __________________ > > Any statement I make on this site is for educational > purposes only and will > > change as medical knowledge progresses. It does not > constitute medical > > advice, does not substitute for proper medical > evaluation from physician, > > does not create a doctor/patient relationship or > liability. If you would > > like medical advice, please ask your doctor. Thank > you. > > > > Co-Moderator > > Phil > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 Yes I feel it's good for your heart it keeps down Homocysteine Cardiovasecular levels it's not high Cholesterol levels it's Inflammation in the blood doing in our hearts. It the need for folic Acid and B vit.'s from the food we eat that are processed out of it. Co-Moderator Phil > > > > > > > > > > > Here is a cut and paste why Dr. feels we > need TMG > > with DIM and some > > > links to the best kind of DIM to use there is a > lot of > > junk out there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0 > > > > > > My Heart Dr. has me taking TMG and B Vit.'s to > keep my > > Homocysteine > > > Cardiovasecular 9.2 range <11.4 umo/L. levels > > down. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals-TMG-Trimethylglycine-750-mg-240-Tablets/14\ 19?at=0 > > > > > Here is a cut and paste why Dr. feels we > need TMG > > or DMG with DIM. > > > > ==================================================== > > > I have seen several studies which showed that > while > > DIM improves the > > > 2-OHE/16-a-OHE ratio, it also increases the bad > 4-OHE. > > TMG, or its child DMG > > > (although TMG is much better because it has > already > > donated a valuable > > > methyl group by the time it becomes DMG) will > help > > flush the 4-OHE > > > downstream. > > > > > > Taking TMG/DMG is important on its own, even in > > absence of DIM > > > supplementation. But I would not take DIM without > it. > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > > > The following is what Dr. M says about lower E2 > with > > DIM and other things. > > > > ==================================================== > > > My interpretation of the above articles is that: > > > 1. DIM blocks DHT from binding to > androgen-receptors > > in the Prostate. This > > > is a good thing - it reduces the risk of > prostate > > cancer from testosterone > > > replacement therapy. > > > > > > 2. DIM does not stop the production of DHT. For > DIM to > > do so, it has to > > > inhibit the reductase enzyme that converts > > testosterone to DHT. The articles > > > do not indicate that this is occurring. > > > > > > In regard to how DIM works, it blocks certain > > Cytochrome P450 enzymes in > > > the liver which convert Estrogens to more > > proliferative, cancerous types of > > > estrogens. This forces the liver to use other > > pathways, which convert > > > estrogens to non-proliferative, safer, and less > potent > > estrogens. Thus, > > > overall estrogen activity is reduced by DIM. > > > > > > Arimidex blocks the aromatase enzyme that > converts > > testosterone to > > > estrogens, thus lowering the production of > estrogens > > and thus lowering > > > estrogen activity. There are other substances > which > > also block the aromatase > > > enzyme - including 6-OXO (an over-the-counter > > supplement), Aromasin, etc.. > > > > > > Which do you want to use? Either choice is valid. > It > > will depend on the > > > individual's response, how easy it is to control > > estrogen activity, cost, > > > etc. > > > > > > Other factors: > > > 1. Arimidex is by prescription and is very > expensive. > > > 2. 6-OXO is over-the-counter, but dosing > guidelines > > are not clear. > > > 3. DIM is over-the-counter, is relatively > expensive > > for what you get. There > > > are pitfalls - such as " DIM-complex " - which > water > > down the DIM > > > concentration by adding additives. > > > 4. Broccoli and I3C - both precursors to DIM can > be > > used. But they require > > > you to avoid antacids, needing acidity in the > stomach > > to break them down and > > > create DIM. > > > > > > In any case, you will have to monitor your > estrogen > > levels via blood > > > testing to determine how much of each you want > to > > use. > > > __________________ > > > Any statement I make on this site is for > educational > > purposes only and will > > > change as medical knowledge progresses. It does > not > > constitute medical > > > advice, does not substitute for proper medical > > evaluation from physician, > > > does not create a doctor/patient relationship or > > liability. If you would > > > like medical advice, please ask your doctor. > Thank > > you. > > > > > > Co-Moderator > > > Phil > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 You can get your homocysteine tested with a simple blood test. Then if it's high, or above what's considered optimal, you can decide if you want to take supplements to lower it. High homocysteine is usually a sign of low B12, B6 and folate and good doctors use this test to screen for those vitamin deficiencies. TMG is also a way to lower homocysteine and also helps the liver to flush out estrogens, but it doesn't fix the low B vitamins and those are very important. So, you want to look at all options when homocysteine is high. -Nigel On 2 April 2011 14:23, philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote: > > > Yes I feel it's good for your heart it keeps down Homocysteine > Cardiovasecular levels it's not high Cholesterol levels it's Inflammation in > the blood doing in our hearts. It the need for folic Acid and B vit.'s from > the food we eat that are processed out of it. > Co-Moderator > Phil > > > > > From: john moody <moody5521@...> > > > Subject: Re: DIM? > > > > Date: Saturday, April 2, 2011, 2:56 PM > > > should one take TMG regardless of > > Estrogen levels? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 Yes every one should have this tested it's called a Homocysteine Cardiovasecular 9.2 range <11.4 umo/L. this is my last test. Also test Coenzyme Q10 if this is low take Ubiquinol Capliques Featuring Kaneka's Qh. They sell an Homocysteine supplement that worked on my wife not on me. I need to take the Vit.'s seperitey. http://www.iherb.com/Search?kw=Homocysteine Here is what Hardasnails set me up with. ================================================== •TMG 750mg 1pm and 11pm 2 pills a day. •Solary Super Bio C 2 x’s/day 1000 mgs. Total. •Biotics Bio-D-Mulsion Forte Vit. D 2000 IU's per drop •NAC N-Acetyl Cysteine, Selenium, Molybdenum - 600 mg. •B-12 (Brain) Methylcobalamin - 5000 mcg lozenges. 3x’s/week. •Coenzyme B Complex. •P-5-P (Coenzyme B6) 50 mg. •I am taking 800 mcg. Folacal for low Folate RBC. •BioCitrate Selenium - 200 mcg 1x’s / day morning. •Krill Oil capliques 1,000 mgs. 2 with food morning mercola.com •Ubiquinol Capliques Featuring Kaneka's Qh I just added K2 to all of this. •Vitamin K2 capsules mercola.com. and this. •Doctor's Best, Best Delta Gold Tocotrienols, 50 mg 2 tabs at dinner. All of the above is approved by my Heart Dr.'s. Co-Moderator Phil > > > > > From: john moody <moody5521@...> > > > > > Subject: Re: DIM? > > > > > > Date: Saturday, April 2, 2011, 2:56 PM > > > > > should one take TMG regardless of > > > Estrogen levels? > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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