Re: New to group - Living with low T at 34

May 13, 2010

Hi and Welcome,

You are in the right place and what ever you do find out why your low before

going on TRT. Read my Story it will help you understand what we go through.

And with the right Dr. how you can feel better again. All is not lost if you

figure out why your low and treat it your levels can come back up on there own.

And you will not need TRT for life if your Primary meaning your testis can't

make enough T or your Secondary meaning your Pituitary in your brain dose not

tell your Testis to make T getting on TRT will fix you.

http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=5 & t=9239

In this link are labs I feel men need done most of them are from Dr. 's site

go to his link in this and read TRT: A Recipe for Success in this he says why

you need them labs.

And adding to them Total T3 and T4 for Thyroid.

http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=5 & t=7059

Here are some links about this problem and you need to read them to learn about

this so when you see Dr.'s you can tell if they are up on this and your getting

good treatment.

http://www.griffinmedical.com/male_hormone_modulation_therapy.html

From this link is some of the things that make T levels low on men also make dam

sure your Estradiol levels are tested this is what makes us feel dam bad.

Your best level should be around 20 pg/ml.

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=450553

=================================

According to the Great Smokies Diagnostic Lab, these are the causes of

hypogonadism:

chronic/systemic illness

surgery

chemotherapy

infections

premature aging

testicular trauma

stress

Kleinfelter's syndrome

autoimmune damage

tobacco and alcohol

sleep apnea

excessive heat

obesity

hypercortisolism

medications

hyperthyroidism

malnutrition

?Subtle clinical signs of hypogonadism may include slight gynecomastia

and soft small testes. However, researchers have noted that " the

findings of physical examination in men with adult-onset hypogonadism

are often normal.?

Secondary hypogonadism can develop as a result of hypothalamic or

pituitary disease, obesity, hypothyroidism or other causes. Some

conditions, such as hypercortisolemia, AIDS and severe systemic

illnesses, can trigger hypogonadism through a combination of both

primary and secondary mechanisms.?

---------------------------------------------------------

Try not to stress over this and how you feel it only makes it worse. Try doing

this 2x's a day to rid your self of stress.

http://hrop.ucop.edu/employees/eap/relaxation.html

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: michaelgarin123 <no_reply >

> Subject: New to group - Living with low T at 34

>

> Date: Thursday, May 13, 2010, 3:19 AM

> Hi Everyone

>

> I'm a 34yo with low T symptoms that seem to be getting

> worse this past year. My total T has been under 200 since I

> started getting it tested in Aug09. I'm still waiting for a

> proper diagnosis from a specialist which I hope to see in

> June when my new health insurance kicks in. Then I can learn

> what treatment will help.

>

> I could use some advice on how to live well with this

> problem because the last couple years my body has really

> taken a beating with lots of stress and health issues and I

> don't seem to be recovering. It's getting frustrating. I'm

> afraid I've fallen into some apathetic thinking. I used to

> be very good at keeping myself healthy, now I'm not so self

> assured that I can do it. I feel like no matter what I do

> I'll just end up feeling crappy and out of shape anyway.

>

> Can you guys help me from your experiences understand just

> what someone with low T who feels like an old man can do?

> Aside from any difference medical treatment will give me

> once I get it, is it possible for me to feel good and strong

> again while having low T and feeling like this? If so, what

> will it require of me to accomplish it?

>

> Thank you for taking the time, I can't wait to hear your

> responses

>

> ------------------------------------

>

May 13, 2010

,

I am in a similar boat as you with low T at age 31, most of my symptoms

were more the emotional and mental side of it, I think (just from my

experience) you can still be very physically active and in shape and

have low T. Maybe not perform at your peak but still do very well.

For the past few years I have been exercising very frequently and

working on losing weight primarily focused on martial arts and

bodyweight type training, I felt like I was in great shape because I

could keep up and usually outpace everyone including the teenagers and

guys in their 20's but I just could not get the weight off that I

wanted. I had lost around 50lbs, but I needed to lose another 20-30lbs,

I had pretty much stalled so I had went on a medically supervised diet

and thats when I found I had low T. My testosterone was 257 when I

first tested, however according to their bio-impedance segmented scans I

had between 20-35% (depending on which section -arms, legs, core, etc..)

more muscle mass then the average guy of my height (5'8 " ). Depending on

who's charts you use that level of testosterone is usually related to

men in their 70's or 80's! My Dr said because of that result alone one

option is to just not treat it, however I wanted help on the mental and

emotional side more then physical anyways. But at any rate I think that

goes to show you that you can be fit, healthy, and strong with low T.

I have now been on TRT for about 6wk or so, I have to be honest its not

helped like I thought it would. Overall I feel a little calmer, prior

to it I would sometimes get really anxious. I am a little more mellow,

I don't worry about the small stuff as much. Libido is up slightly but

not significantly (never really had an issue here though). But it has

not been the panacea that I thought it would be. My confidence and

overall drive is not much better and that is the major area I thought my

low T was manifesting itself in. I haven't noticed a huge physical

performance increase, and my weight is still lingering (although I am

off the diet and my stress from work has sky rocketed). My testosterone

went up 100pts to 357 total test on my first dosage (very low 2.5g

Androgel) and I am now on 10g to see where my total T ends up. I have

not been tested yet since upping the dosage last week, but honestly I

don't feel different from the 2.5g.

Because of the above, and the fact that I am secondary (pituitary), I am

thinking about going off TRT. Then I can get more testing done, and I

also want to try a new method of cycling natural herbals. Most think

this will not work, it may not, but I want to try it. In the past

before TRT I had tried some herbals at various times, I had a really

great response to some (greater energy/mood/confidence boost for me

compared to TRT) but they always went away after a week or so after my

body adapted. Cycling them though may change that, that is what I am

hoping for and with more tests I will be able to find out if my adrenals

are fatigued or if my Estrogen is too high etc... Controlling estrogen

can raise total test by 2-300 points from what I hear alone. Worst case

scenario I go back on TRT so I don't think I have much to lose.

The point of this is, I think its possible to be healthy and fit with

low T so don't despair. With TRT added in a lot of guys seem to regain

most of what they lost when their testosterone dropped, so that is also

another reason to not despair. I would just suggest getting as many

tests done as you can to make sure your low T is not a symptom of

another issue (adrenal fatigue, excess estrogen, thyroid, cortisol,

etc..) as these can all suppress testosterone production. Just like

Eastern medicine its best to treat the source of the issue then to mask

the symptoms.

-Matt

On 5/13/2010 2:19 AM, michaelgarin123 wrote:

> Hi Everyone

>

> I'm a 34yo with low T symptoms that seem to be getting worse this past year.

My total T has been under 200 since I started getting it tested in Aug09. I'm

still waiting for a proper diagnosis from a specialist which I hope to see in

June when my new health insurance kicks in. Then I can learn what treatment will

help.

>

> I could use some advice on how to live well with this problem because the last

couple years my body has really taken a beating with lots of stress and health

issues and I don't seem to be recovering. It's getting frustrating. I'm afraid

I've fallen into some apathetic thinking. I used to be very good at keeping

myself healthy, now I'm not so self assured that I can do it. I feel like no

matter what I do I'll just end up feeling crappy and out of shape anyway.

>

> Can you guys help me from your experiences understand just what someone with

low T who feels like an old man can do? Aside from any difference medical

treatment will give me once I get it, is it possible for me to feel good and

strong again while having low T and feeling like this? If so, what will it

require of me to accomplish it?

>

> Thank you for taking the time, I can't wait to hear your responses

>

May 13, 2010

Matt,

I am 38 now and am became Hypo past 1.5 yrs. I too did not want to accept that I

may have to stay on TRT for life. I tried a couple of Herbal stuff like

Ashwagandha and Tribulus Terrestris etc. I havent found that great effects of

them. I also heard and read that Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy will help all the

glands and organs receive 100% oxygen (when we breath only 20% oxygen is

reaching the blood) and will balance all the harmones.

This is not a new thing but from the Yoga times which is very ancient. Back then

they used to do the breathing excersises and now our medical labs created a

therapy called " " Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy "

I tried to get it but the doctors wouldnt agree to treat me for my Hypo

Pituitary issue. They say the insurance wont pay. I told them " to hell with the

insurance " .... I will pay from my pocket but they are not ready. But if you get

someone in your area who is willing to treat you .........I would try it

personally.

Joe

> > Hi Everyone

> >

> > I'm a 34yo with low T symptoms that seem to be getting worse this past year.

My total T has been under 200 since I started getting it tested in Aug09. I'm

still waiting for a proper diagnosis from a specialist which I hope to see in

June when my new health insurance kicks in. Then I can learn what treatment will

help.

> >

> > I could use some advice on how to live well with this problem because the

last couple years my body has really taken a beating with lots of stress and

health issues and I don't seem to be recovering. It's getting frustrating. I'm

afraid I've fallen into some apathetic thinking. I used to be very good at

keeping myself healthy, now I'm not so self assured that I can do it. I feel

like no matter what I do I'll just end up feeling crappy and out of shape

anyway.

> >

> > Can you guys help me from your experiences understand just what someone with

low T who feels like an old man can do? Aside from any difference medical

treatment will give me once I get it, is it possible for me to feel good and

strong again while having low T and feeling like this? If so, what will it

require of me to accomplish it?

> >

> > Thank you for taking the time, I can't wait to hear your responses

> >

>

May 13, 2010

Joe,

I hear you, I think my low T maybe stress related and thus it may be

cortisol or adrenal gland related. My job and life overall has been

very hectic the past few years with very little time between extreme

stressors. Also taking Ashwagandha on the days I feel fatigued or tired

really helps, but if I take it every day the results go away. I have

had similar results with herbal testosterone boosters, some of them I

felt great on initially but they faded fast. I am going to give this

latest Androgel dosage a try and see how I feel in a week or so, if

nothing changes I am going to start cycling herbals (7 different, so 1

per day) while taking DIM and resveratrol to control estrogen, and then

start cutting back on the TRT over a period of time before eliminating

and try that for a while. I am going on a business trip for the next 3

weeks, maybe at the end of that I will be ready to get my levels checked

again just to see where I am and hopefully I can get more testing to

eliminate other issues or concerns.

There is a place near me that does they hyperbaric chamber so I will

keep that in mind. But I think right now I am going to focus primarily

on eating for testosterone production (good fats, low refined carbs),

working out enough to increase testosterone production (been working out

but not nearly as hard as I had been), and then also trying to eliminate

stressors and pre-existing stress as much as possible. Once when I was

a young teenager I gained 30lbs due to depression (long story short we

moved from a small town to a huge city where I did not fit in), I

eventually got to move back to my old town and I lost that 30lbs in a

month and was not even trying and wasn't even allowed to play sports

because I was with a guardian so it was really strange I lost the lbs so

fast, I think my body reacts strongly to stressful situations and if I

can control that my hormones may balance out.

-Matt

On 5/13/2010 12:23 PM, inc_100 wrote:

> Matt,

>

> I am 38 now and am became Hypo past 1.5 yrs. I too did not want to accept that

I may have to stay on TRT for life. I tried a couple of Herbal stuff like

Ashwagandha and Tribulus Terrestris etc. I havent found that great effects of

them. I also heard and read that Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy will help all the

glands and organs receive 100% oxygen (when we breath only 20% oxygen is

reaching the blood) and will balance all the harmones.

>

> This is not a new thing but from the Yoga times which is very ancient. Back

then they used to do the breathing excersises and now our medical labs created a

therapy called " " Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy "

>

> I tried to get it but the doctors wouldnt agree to treat me for my Hypo

Pituitary issue. They say the insurance wont pay. I told them " to hell with the

insurance " .... I will pay from my pocket but they are not ready. But if you get

someone in your area who is willing to treat you .........I would try it

personally.

>

> Joe

>

>>

>>> Hi Everyone

>>>

>>> I'm a 34yo with low T symptoms that seem to be getting worse this past year.

My total T has been under 200 since I started getting it tested in Aug09. I'm

still waiting for a proper diagnosis from a specialist which I hope to see in

June when my new health insurance kicks in. Then I can learn what treatment will

help.

>>>

>>> I could use some advice on how to live well with this problem because the

last couple years my body has really taken a beating with lots of stress and

health issues and I don't seem to be recovering. It's getting frustrating. I'm

afraid I've fallen into some apathetic thinking. I used to be very good at

keeping myself healthy, now I'm not so self assured that I can do it. I feel

like no matter what I do I'll just end up feeling crappy and out of shape

anyway.

>>>

>>> Can you guys help me from your experiences understand just what someone with

low T who feels like an old man can do? Aside from any difference medical

treatment will give me once I get it, is it possible for me to feel good and

strong again while having low T and feeling like this? If so, what will it

require of me to accomplish it?

>>>

>>> Thank you for taking the time, I can't wait to hear your responses

>>>

>>

>

May 14, 2010

Hi Phil

Thanks for the useful links and info. Your story is really something. I know

what its like to be misunderstood like that. The past few years I've been in a

unique and stressful situation that does not make much sense to people except

for close friends who know what is going on. So even without the low T factor I

have had to deal with a lot of image problems and have found that co-workers and

extended family can really fill in the blanks in a nasty way. It's really

frustrating.

It has taught me a lot about understanding other people's problems and not

judging others to quickly based on appearances. You don't know what someone else

is going through and even if you did you might not understand it unless you went

through it yourself.

Thanks for the welcome,

>

> > From: michaelgarin123 <no_reply >

> > Subject: New to group - Living with low T at 34

> >

> > Date: Thursday, May 13, 2010, 3:19 AM

> > Hi Everyone

> >

> > I'm a 34yo with low T symptoms that seem to be getting

> > worse this past year. My total T has been under 200 since I

> > started getting it tested in Aug09. I'm still waiting for a

> > proper diagnosis from a specialist which I hope to see in

> > June when my new health insurance kicks in. Then I can learn

> > what treatment will help.

> >

> > I could use some advice on how to live well with this

> > problem because the last couple years my body has really

> > taken a beating with lots of stress and health issues and I

> > don't seem to be recovering. It's getting frustrating. I'm

> > afraid I've fallen into some apathetic thinking. I used to

> > be very good at keeping myself healthy, now I'm not so self

> > assured that I can do it. I feel like no matter what I do

> > I'll just end up feeling crappy and out of shape anyway.

> >

> > Can you guys help me from your experiences understand just

> > what someone with low T who feels like an old man can do?

> > Aside from any difference medical treatment will give me

> > once I get it, is it possible for me to feel good and strong

> > again while having low T and feeling like this? If so, what

> > will it require of me to accomplish it?

> >

> > Thank you for taking the time, I can't wait to hear your

> > responses

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

May 14, 2010

Hi Matt

Thanks for the advice. I will be getting more medical tests done

in June and hopefully find the right treatment.

You seem to know a lot about being physically fit. I want to start

an excercise regimen again like I used to. Being that my low T is affecting me

right now, what kind of approach would you recommend?

Thanks,

May 15, 2010

Mike I feel your pain been down that road even my work discriminated against me.

I was coming back off Sick Leave and they locked me out of work. I was working

at a big auto co. and in the Union even the Union discriminated against me. I

could not get sick pay I had a letter from a Dr. saying I could return to work.

It's a long story but don't let people shit on you because your sick. I went to

the Gov. EEOC and sued my Union and Co. for this and I found my wife and family

were the worst.

My Dr.'s at the time were head Dr.'s and when my BCBS wanted to know why I was

not getting better after 5 yrs on Anti-Depressant drugs the dam Dr.'s told my

BCBS, my wife and my job I liked being Depressed and did not want to get better.

My wife got all in my face about this saying I was lazy and did not care about

taking care of my family or her and said some dam bad things to me.

I kicked her out of the house and changed the locks.

We were about to end the marriage when a Dr. found out I had low Testosterone.

After 5 yrs of suffering in just 30 days on TRT I was back to work. My wife had

her lawyer call mine and wanted to try to get back with men and not get a

divorce.

We are still married today but I can tell you things are not the same she said

and did some things to me when I was dam sick this are not easy to get over.

Still today I don't talk to my Wife or Friends about how I feel or how I am

doing if they ask. I just say things are fine.

Knowing about how people can treat you when your sick and Dr.'s don't know what

is wrong today if someone were to talk to me like they did back in the day I

would have nothing to do with them and I would kick my wife out the first time

she said something bad to me.

Life is do dam short to put up with other peoples Bull Shi*.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: michaelgarin123 <no_reply >

> Subject: Re: New to group - Living with low T at 34

>

> Date: Friday, May 14, 2010, 5:52 PM

>

> Hi Phil

>

> Thanks for the useful links and info. Your story is really

> something. I know what its like to be misunderstood like

> that. The past few years I've been in a unique and stressful

> situation that does not make much sense to people except for

> close friends who know what is going on. So even without the

> low T factor I have had to deal with a lot of image problems

> and have found that co-workers and extended family can

> really fill in the blanks in a nasty way. It's really

> frustrating.

>

> It has taught me a lot about understanding other people's

> problems and not judging others to quickly based on

> appearances. You don't know what someone else is going

> through and even if you did you might not understand it

> unless you went through it yourself.

>

> Thanks for the welcome,

>

> >

> > > From: michaelgarin123 <no_reply >

> > > Subject: New to group - Living

> with low T at 34

> > >

> > > Date: Thursday, May 13, 2010, 3:19 AM

> > > Hi Everyone

> > >

> > > I'm a 34yo with low T symptoms that seem to be

> getting

> > > worse this past year. My total T has been under

> 200 since I

> > > started getting it tested in Aug09. I'm still

> waiting for a

> > > proper diagnosis from a specialist which I hope

> to see in

> > > June when my new health insurance kicks in. Then

> I can learn

> > > what treatment will help.

> > >

> > > I could use some advice on how to live well with

> this

> > > problem because the last couple years my body has

> really

> > > taken a beating with lots of stress and health

> issues and I

> > > don't seem to be recovering. It's getting

> frustrating. I'm

> > > afraid I've fallen into some apathetic thinking.

> I used to

> > > be very good at keeping myself healthy, now I'm

> not so self

> > > assured that I can do it. I feel like no matter

> what I do

> > > I'll just end up feeling crappy and out of shape

> anyway.

> > >

> > > Can you guys help me from your experiences

> understand just

> > > what someone with low T who feels like an old man

> can do?

> > > Aside from any difference medical treatment will

> give me

> > > once I get it, is it possible for me to feel good

> and strong

> > > again while having low T and feeling like this?

> If so, what

> > > will it require of me to accomplish it?

> > >

> > > Thank you for taking the time, I can't wait to

> hear your

> > > responses

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

May 16, 2010

Tom,

Sorry for the slow response I am now out of town so sortuf out of my element

It all depends on what you want to achieve. For highest testosterone

production heavy weight lifting increases testosterone and growth hormone,

and so does high intensity activities. By high intensity I mean sprints or

other type activities where you have all out intervals followed by rest

intervals. I do this on my elliptical, I will warm up 5-10min then do a 10s

all out sprint on max resistance followed by a 20 second easy pace

" recovery " period. Rinse and repeat that as many times as you want and

then follow that with a cool down period. I have done 20min of straight

intervals before in the past but that was quite difficult. My first session

I did 5 min of 30s sprint/30s cooldown and when I got off I felt like I

almost passed out, my body was shaking, but then I felt great. From there

it became a lot easier, and this one type of activity I think increased my

martial arts stamina/explosiveness and overall cardiovascular performance

more then anything else. After I started doing this sparring, grappling,

etc.. stop being difficult.

Endurance activities can actually be counterproductive to testosterone, so I

don't reccomend them I usually don't do more then 20 to maybe 30min steady

state activities, everything is interval based for me. I would not suggest

doing more then 45min though of interval training sessions as its very

taxing on the body. High intensity intervals raises metabolism for 24-48hrs

also, so you really should not do more then 3 heavy sessions or so a week,

your fitness and strength are built during recovery. You can combine HIIT

with strength training, its called HIRT or high intensity resistance

training. When I do this I usually warm up, then do some HIIT sessions,

then go through a circuit of items such as pull-ups, push-ups, ab work,

etc..., then cool down. You can also do this for more then one series or do

activities on time based etc... but goal is to keep the intensity up. The

whole idea with high intensity is going very hard when your going, and very

easy when your resting.

Check this out:

http://www.healthhabits.ca/2010/03/16/hiit-kicks-cardios-butt/ and other

articles on that website for more info, it has been a great resource for me.

For me I like to do a lot of activities relating to the core, because

martial arts is all about your core. Grappling, kicking, striking,

throwing, etc... all require a very strong core. I bought one of those

Tower200's and have been doing that as part of my routine, pretty much

everything you do with that you engage your core.

I was on a very low (1k calorie, medically surpervised diet) and during this

I was still doing HIIT and strength training, if you want to see what I was

doing you can check here:

http://mattjon332.wordpress.com

It is all but abandoned atm, I have been out of town for work and vacation,

and I am back out of town again so I have not been able to keep up with it

or my training.

-Matt

On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 5:31 PM, michaelgarin123

<no_reply >wrote:

>

> Hi Matt

>

> Thanks for the advice. I will be getting more medical tests done in June

> and hopefully find the right treatment.

>

> You seem to know a lot about being physically fit. I want to start an

> excercise regimen again like I used to. Being that my low T is affecting me

> right now, what kind of approach would you recommend?

>

> Thanks,

> Tom

>

May 16, 2010

Maybe consider doing MMA, its is really intense. Great for Cardio.

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