Guest guest Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 My sex drive has been in the pits for as long as I can remember. It never occurred to me that this could be the result of hypogonadism nor did any of my doctors over the years ever suggest this possibility. When I'd complain about ED problems, my doctors would treat those symptoms in the traditional ways; this being everything from telling me the problem is psychological to prescribing penile injections and later Viagra, Cialis and Levitra. Psyche therapy may have helped me become more accepting of my condition. The prescriptions sometimes helped with the erection problems and sometimes not. However, they did nothing to increase my sex-drive. When I was fourteen years old, I got the mumps. As a result, one testicle was affected and died. The doctors said that you only need one testicle and that the remaining testicle would do the work of two. Apparently, someone forgot to mention this to my testicle because I suspect it never stepped up to the plate. When I was sixteen, our family doctor put me on steroids because I was so puny (skinny) and not very masculine looking or acting. My wife of almost forty-six years is a saint to have stayed with a man who had little interest in sexual relations. It is something of a miracle that we had two children considering the number of occasions we had sexual intercourse. These days, my wife is ill as a result of type II diabetes and the various complications which this disease has caused. At least the lack of sex drive is mutual now. I have been on TRT for a little over a year now. Originally, I applied Androgel daily. This continued for several months. I perceived some minor changes, but nothing dramatic. Eventually, I went to Testosterone Cypionate injections; at first once every three weeks at the doctor's office and eventually at home once a week and now every three and a half days. Still improvements in my sex drive have been minor. I have yet to convince my doctor to test my estrogen levels. I don't have issues with gyno fortunately although on Androgel my nipples became somewhat more sensitive. They have always been somewhat sensitive. I wish my penis would get as hard as they do. Last month, I took it upon myself to order Arimidex and HCG from All Day Chemist. I have been injecting HCG each of the two days prior to the testosterone Cypionate injections in a fairly high dosage, following the information for treating hypogonadism on the packaging which suggest 2,000 mg a week for four months and then lowering the dose. I cut the Arimidex tablets into quarters and take one quarter tab every other day. The " nighttime and morning wood " test that Phil recommends has improved. Erections are still inconsistent but more frequent than not. Because I still have a lot of performance anxiety regarding getting and maintaining an erection, waking erections are still lacking most of the time. However, I believe there is some improvement here as well. Overall, I feel pretty good. No hot flashes. I am only tired if I have been up for a long time or had a particularly hard day working at my temporary job. I think about sex more often. This is fairly ironic considering were my wife and I are regarding sexual relations. But, it is still good to feel like I am alive and not just sleepwalking through life. Don't know what the future holds for my health or sexual vigor, but I am hoping for the best. Presently, I am too busy with the upcoming election to manage my usual six-day gym routine. However, right after November 2, I will be back working out on a regular basis. Thank goodness that in every other respect my health is excellent for a man my age. > > I don't know if all of that can come from high E2, but I am sure not any expert. > > Mine is high, and I am NOT on TRT. > I have fatigue, water retention, and basically a total lack of interest in sex. I think these are from the high E2 in me anyway. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 For me, high E is pretty obvious (low is less obvious). I retain water and I get sweats (like hot flashes). ________________________________ From: philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> Sent: Wed, September 29, 2010 11:33:14 AM Subject: Re: Re: E2 symptoms?  Hi E2 levels gave me BPH, Panic Attacks and the things you are having. What Tom is feeling I can't say I had this problem. Co-Moderator Phil > From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...> > Subject: Re: E2 symptoms? > > Date: Wednesday, September 29, 2010, 1:21 PM > I don't know if all of that can come > from high E2, but I am sure not any expert. > > Mine is high, and I am NOT on TRT. > I have fatigue, water retention, and basically a total lack > of interest in sex. I think these are from the high E2 in me > anyway. > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 Phil, What would sure be hlepful is a lit something like this: Symptoms that mean low E: .... .... Symptoms that mean high E: .... .... Symptoms that could be either low or high E: .... .... Same thing in regards to T. I am trying to get my T injections and my Arimidex working right. I feel better now that I have changed my shots from twice a week to once a week (same dose). That after my numbers were pretty good (about 550 on Total T and 20 on the E). At those numbers, I didn't feel well at all. The thing is, that it seems that for me it's more how I feel than by looking at numbers. Today (and yesterday) I started feeling a bit worse (not real bad though) than I have been in the prior two weeks and I'm trying to figure out if it's T or E, low or high. Also, I don't have insurance, so testing often is just too much $$-wise. Do you have such a list or know where one is? Since you is 'da man, maybe you can compile it for us  Or, maybe we can build the list as a group. For example; I know for sure that when my E goes up I bloat (retain water) and my breathing gets a bit " stuffy " or " labored " because of the edema. I could put that on the symptoms on the " High E " list. Maybe we have a " list manager "  - submit our suggestions to the manager and let that manager gather anecdotal and clinical data and build the list. Thanks, Bill ________________________________ From: philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> Sent: Wed, September 29, 2010 1:09:44 PM Subject: Re: Re: E2 symptoms?  Tom, In men we all have Estradiol and other Estrogen's we need them much the same as women need them only we don't need a much. In men E's are made from Testosterone when we add it to the body as in TRT some of it converts into E's for most men. As we age we can end up with more E's then the wife has. It get convented from the Aromatase that is in the fat in our body the older we get the more fat we have and the higher Estraidol can get. So in younger men the higher your dose of Testosterone is from being TRT the more it can convert into Estradiol. http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174 But what your feeling I don't think it's a side effect from high levels of Estradiol I feel it's the DHEA in your Testosterone Gel. Co-Moderator Phil > > > From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...> > > Subject: Re: E2 symptoms? > > > > Date: Wednesday, September 29, 2010, 1:21 PM > > I don't know if all of that can come > > from high E2, but I am sure not any expert. > > > > Mine is high, and I am NOT on TRT. > > I have fatigue, water retention, and basically a total > lack > > of interest in sex. I think these are from the high E2 > in me > > anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 I pray your not doing that huge amount of HCG anymore you don't need more then 500 IU's a day and this is a lot. Just try 250 to 500 IU's the day before your next shot. It all takes time my libido came back very slow but it's back now. It's to bad my wife now could care less about sex sill we have it once I get her going she in joys it. Co-Moderator Phil > From: Primemuscle <Primemuscle@...> > Subject: Re: E2 symptoms? > > Date: Thursday, September 30, 2010, 4:15 PM > My sex drive has been in the pits for > as long as I can remember. It never occurred to me that this > could be the result of hypogonadism nor did any of my > doctors over the years ever suggest this possibility. When > I'd complain about ED problems, my doctors would treat those > symptoms in the traditional ways; this being everything from > telling me the problem is psychological to prescribing > penile injections and later Viagra, Cialis and Levitra. > Psyche therapy may have helped me become more accepting of > my condition. The prescriptions sometimes helped with the > erection problems and sometimes not. However, they did > nothing to increase my sex-drive. > > When I was fourteen years old, I got the mumps. As a > result, one testicle was affected and died. The > doctors said that you only need one testicle and that the > remaining testicle would do the work of two. Apparently, > someone forgot to mention this to my testicle because I > suspect it never stepped up to the plate. When I was > sixteen, our family doctor put me on steroids because I was > so puny (skinny) and not very masculine looking or acting. > > My wife of almost forty-six years is a saint to have stayed > with a man who had little interest in sexual relations. It > is something of a miracle that we had two children > considering the number of occasions we had sexual > intercourse. These days, my wife is ill as a result of type > II diabetes and the various complications which this disease > has caused. At least the lack of sex drive is mutual now. > > I have been on TRT for a little over a year now. > Originally, I applied Androgel daily. This continued for > several months. I perceived some minor changes, but nothing > dramatic. Eventually, I went to Testosterone Cypionate > injections; at first once every three weeks at the doctor's > office and eventually at home once a week and now every > three and a half days. Still improvements in my sex drive > have been minor. > > I have yet to convince my doctor to test my estrogen > levels. I don't have issues with gyno fortunately although > on Androgel my nipples became somewhat more sensitive. They > have always been somewhat sensitive. I wish my penis would > get as hard as they do. > > Last month, I took it upon myself to order Arimidex and HCG > from All Day Chemist. I have been injecting HCG each of the > two days prior to the testosterone Cypionate injections in a > fairly high dosage, following the information for treating > hypogonadism on the packaging which suggest 2,000 mg a week > for four months and then lowering the dose. I cut the > Arimidex tablets into quarters and take one quarter tab > every other day. > > The " nighttime and morning wood " test that Phil recommends > has improved. Erections are still inconsistent but more > frequent than not. Because I still have a lot of performance > anxiety regarding getting and maintaining an erection, > waking erections are still lacking most of the time. > However, I believe there is some improvement here as well. > > Overall, I feel pretty good. No hot flashes. I am only > tired if I have been up for a long time or had a > particularly hard day working at my temporary job. I think > about sex more often. This is fairly ironic considering were > my wife and I are regarding sexual relations. But, it is > still good to feel like I am alive and not just sleepwalking > through life. > > Don't know what the future holds for my health or sexual > vigor, but I am hoping for the best. Presently, I am too > busy with the upcoming election to manage my usual six-day > gym routine. However, right after November 2, I will be back > working out on a regular basis. Thank goodness that in every > other respect my health is excellent for a man my age. > > > > > > > I don't know if all of that can come from high E2, but > I am sure not any expert. > > > > Mine is high, and I am NOT on TRT. > > I have fatigue, water retention, and basically a total > lack of interest in sex. I think these are from the high E2 > in me anyway. > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 These are quotes from Dr. no's site definitivemind.com The higher the testosterone, the greater the possibility of excessive estrogen signaling, which may cause processes which results in excessive norepinephrine signaling, and thus erectile dysfunction and premature ejaculation. These and other factors involved with testosterone treatment need to be addressed when problems occur related to dosing. Estrogen is necessary for sexual drive or libido. However, too little or too much can impair libido. Too much estrogen can increase stress/norepinephrine signaling, cause irritability, anxiety, agitation, etc. This can worsen or contribute to premature ejaculation Estrogens are hormones which promote aggression in men. Testosterone is calming. The increase in estradiol formation from the addition of testosterone may promote irritability and aggression. Estrogens can also increase thyroid binding globulin formation from the liver. This reduces free-thyroid hormone activity. This may be compensated by an increase in sympathetic nervous system norepinephrine production. This may promote anxiety, irritability, aggression, and insomnia. Bloating is not necessarily an estrogen problem. There are other contributing factors including metabolic ones - such as low iron. Barb > > > > > From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...> > > > Subject: Re: E2 symptoms? > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, September 29, 2010, 1:21 PM > > > I don't know if all of that can come > > > from high E2, but I am sure not any expert. > > > > > > Mine is high, and I am NOT on TRT. > > > I have fatigue, water retention, and basically a total > > lack > > > of interest in sex. I think these are from the high E2 > > in me > > > anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 Take something to lower it start with Zinc 50 mgs a day with some Copper 2 mgs. Zinc lowers Copper. Try some Indolplex/DIM it will lower your levels you will lose the water and feel like a man again. http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0 If your not sure how to do this I will walk you through it everyday until your levels are good. Co-Moderator Phil > > > From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...> > > Subject: Re: E2 symptoms? > > > > Date: Wednesday, September 29, 2010, 1:21 PM > > I don't know if all of that can come > > from high E2, but I am sure not any expert. > > > > Mine is high, and I am NOT on TRT. > > I have fatigue, water retention, and basically a total > lack > > of interest in sex. I think these are from the high E2 > in me > > anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 Bill 550 for most men is to low on TRT it's a good number if your levels from your body were this high but adding T to your body is not the same as your body making it you need higher numbers. It took me many yrs to figure this out. As for how you feel with high E2 levels. 1. I get weak morning wood and it talks a long time to get it up. 2. I get sore and hard nipples. 3. I can get a rash even some times it's just between my little toe on my right foot. Or just down from my arm pit on the side of my body. 4. I hold water and my BP goes up with my breathing labored. 5. I feel hot and will sweat all day and night. 6. I look red like a sunburn on my upper body and face. 7. As the levels go higher I start to have Panic Feeling and will even have an attack. 8. Then the brain fog sets in. 9. Then I get ED with it's real high and can't reach an orgasm. Not all of this happens every time there is no rime or reason to all this. Going to low taking Indolplex/DIM or Arimidex as my levels go to low I get ED can't get it up taking Viagra. 1. I will get sore joints and muscles. 2. Some time my joints will click. 3. I feel spaced out. Co-Moderator Phil > > > > > From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...> > > > Subject: Re: E2 symptoms? > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, September 29, 2010, 1:21 PM > > > I don't know if all of that can come > > > from high E2, but I am sure not any expert. > > > > > > Mine is high, and I am NOT on TRT. > > > I have fatigue, water retention, and basically a > total > > lack > > > of interest in sex. I think these are from the > high E2 > > in me > > > anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 I am getting some of the " high " symptoms today and yesterday (# 4, 5, 8). I popped an Anstrazole (.25) yesterday, but it doesn't seem any better - actually it's worse today. However, my night and morning wood is good (hey, that rhymes!). So, is it too high, too low, or okay??? I don't know what to do - take another Anastrazole or not? I surely don't want to go too low. That 550 is me on 50mg T-Cyp twice a week. So, you think it's too low? I'm afraid to increase the injections (does or frequency) - oaky, not really " afraid " , but I just don't like the high E stuff especially the bloating and breathing deal. When I was first told to inject 50mg twice a week, my 24-hour urine showed high T and high E (both just over the top of the range). I didn't change the shots (same dose, same frequency) and a month or two later I show 550 on a blood test. Got me..... BTW - that 550 (along with the E of 20) was 72 hours after my last shot. Bill ________________________________ From: philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> Sent: Thu, September 30, 2010 2:34:58 PM Subject: Re: Re: E2 symptoms?  Bill 550 for most men is to low on TRT it's a good number if your levels from your body were this high but adding T to your body is not the same as your body making it you need higher numbers. It took me many yrs to figure this out. As for how you feel with high E2 levels. 1. I get weak morning wood and it talks a long time to get it up. 2. I get sore and hard nipples. 3. I can get a rash even some times it's just between my little toe on my right foot. Or just down from my arm pit on the side of my body. 4. I hold water and my BP goes up with my breathing labored. 5. I feel hot and will sweat all day and night. 6. I look red like a sunburn on my upper body and face. 7. As the levels go higher I start to have Panic Feeling and will even have an attack. 8. Then the brain fog sets in. 9. Then I get ED with it's real high and can't reach an orgasm. Not all of this happens every time there is no rime or reason to all this. Going to low taking Indolplex/DIM or Arimidex as my levels go to low I get ED can't get it up taking Viagra. 1. I will get sore joints and muscles. 2. Some time my joints will click. 3. I feel spaced out. Co-Moderator Phil > > > > > From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...> > > > Subject: Re: E2 symptoms? > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, September 29, 2010, 1:21 PM > > > I don't know if all of that can come > > > from high E2, but I am sure not any expert. > > > > > > Mine is high, and I am NOT on TRT. > > > I have fatigue, water retention, and basically a > total > > lack > > > of interest in sex. I think these are from the > high E2 > > in me > > > anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2010 Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 Dan, I had ED for so long that when I got my E2 down and it started working again. Every time I went to have sex It died from performance anxiety. So my Dr. told me to take 20 mgs of Cialis every 3 days this fixed the problem. Now today my Heart Dr. has me on this 5 mgs a day for my heart. I also thought my HCG was making my E2 go all over the place but later found out it was my low Cortisol levels at night doing this. At Dr. 's forum Chilln told me to take my HC at bedtime now I went from taking 1 mg of Arimidex a day to .25 mgs every other day. I do my shots every 3 days and cut back on my HCG from 400 IU's the 2 days each before my next shot of T every 3 days to just 250 IU's the day before my next T shot. This is working great for me now I do better with my libido on HCG and I found out getting my Ferritin and Iron levels up my orgasms are better. You need to take 150 to 200 mg of “elemental iron†daily, spread out with meals. Look on the bottle of Iron pills your taking and see how much " Elemental Iron it has per pill. I had to take 2 pills a day before eating about an hour before with some Vit. C. After my last blood test I asked my Dr. if I could cut back to one pill he said yes so we will see in 10 days what my levels look like. I think I am going to need to be on iron pills for life. We also found out my Folic Acid was below the normal levels on my labs and I was taking a supplement of Folic Acid turns out my body dose not convert it. So I take Thorne Research - Folacal it is all ready converted. http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ferritin/ Co-Moderator Phil > > > From: Primemuscle <Primemuscle@...> > Subject: Re: E2 symptoms? > > Date: Thursday, September 30, 2010, 3:15 PM > > >  > > > > My sex drive has been in the pits for as long as I can > remember. It never occurred to me that this could be the > result of hypogonadism nor did any of my doctors over the > years ever suggest this possibility. When I'd complain about > ED problems, my doctors would treat those symptoms in the > traditional ways; this being everything from telling me the > problem is psychological to prescribing penile injections > and later Viagra, Cialis and Levitra. Psyche therapy may > have helped me become more accepting of my condition. The > prescriptions sometimes helped with the erection problems > and sometimes not. However, they did nothing to increase my > sex-drive. > > When I was fourteen years old, I got the mumps. As a > result, one testicle was affected and died. The doctors said > that you only need one testicle and that the remaining > testicle would do the work of two. Apparently, someone > forgot to mention this to my testicle because I suspect it > never stepped up to the plate. When I was sixteen, our > family doctor put me on steroids because I was so puny > (skinny) and not very masculine looking or acting. > > My wife of almost forty-six years is a saint to have stayed > with a man who had little interest in sexual relations. It > is something of a miracle that we had two children > considering the number of occasions we had sexual > intercourse. These days, my wife is ill as a result of type > II diabetes and the various complications which this disease > has caused. At least the lack of sex drive is mutual now. > > I have been on TRT for a little over a year now. > Originally, I applied Androgel daily. This continued for > several months. I perceived some minor changes, but nothing > dramatic. Eventually, I went to Testosterone Cypionate > injections; at first once every three weeks at the doctor's > office and eventually at home once a week and now every > three and a half days. Still improvements in my sex drive > have been minor. > > I have yet to convince my doctor to test my estrogen > levels. I don't have issues with gyno fortunately although > on Androgel my nipples became somewhat more sensitive. They > have always been somewhat sensitive. I wish my penis would > get as hard as they do. > > Last month, I took it upon myself to order Arimidex and HCG > from All Day Chemist. I have been injecting HCG each of the > two days prior to the testosterone Cypionate injections in a > fairly high dosage, following the information for treating > hypogonadism on the packaging which suggest 2,000 mg a week > for four months and then lowering the dose. I cut the > Arimidex tablets into quarters and take one quarter tab > every other day. > > The " nighttime and morning wood " test that Phil recommends > has improved. Erections are still inconsistent but more > frequent than not. Because I still have a lot of performance > anxiety regarding getting and maintaining an erection, > waking erections are still lacking most of the time. > However, I believe there is some improvement here as well. > > Overall, I feel pretty good. No hot flashes. I am only > tired if I have been up for a long time or had a > particularly hard day working at my temporary job. I think > about sex more often. This is fairly ironic considering were > my wife and I are regarding sexual relations. But, it is > still good to feel like I am alive and not just sleepwalking > through life. > > Don't know what the future holds for my health or sexual > vigor, but I am hoping for the best. Presently, I am too > busy with the upcoming election to manage my usual six-day > gym routine. However, right after November 2, I will be back > working out on a regular basis. Thank goodness that in every > other respect my health is excellent for a man my age. > > > > > > I don't know if all of that can come from high E2, but > I am sure not any expert. > > > > Mine is high, and I am NOT on TRT. > > I have fatigue, water retention, and basically a total > lack of interest in sex. I think these are from the high E2 > in me anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > >    > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2010 Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 This is fine I did 500 IU's 3 x's a week when I first went on HCG after 15 shots we did labs and my TT levels doubled. This is how we found out I am Secondary my Pituitary dose not work right. I lost a lot of fat on my body using HCG and my testis came back from a small size of small grapes. Before getting E2 down and hading HCG I could not find my penis to go to the bath room it's like it went into hiding. Now it hangs a good size like it did when I was younger. I just feel the need to tell men not to do to much HCG like Dr. says we don't need more then our testis can handle. Any more then that it converts into E2. Co-Moderator Phil > From: Primemuscle <Primemuscle@...> > Subject: Re: E2 symptoms? > > Date: Saturday, October 2, 2010, 2:38 AM > Phil, > > I am aware that the recommended dose from both you and All > Things Male is 250 mg each of the two days prior to a weekly > injection of Testosterone Cypionate. So yes, I am injecting > 500 mg each of the two days prior to each of my two weekly > injections of test or four times the amount of your and All > Things Male recommended dosage for HCG. > > I am carefully monitoring any unwanted > symptoms....especially those related to high estrogen > conversion levels, like gyno. So far, so good. The only side > effect I've had is mild heartburn. My one real testicle is > almost back to normal size after only two weeks. > > Now this is going to seem weird; but I swear my shoulders > are actually getting wider. I see and feel this in the fit > of my shirts more than anything else. Also there seems to be > less fat on my abs although my weight has remained constant > at about 220 lbs. I am fairly muscular because I have worked > out with weights my entire adult life. I would guess my body > fat ratio to be somewhere about 12%. I feel like I am > finishing puberty finally. Another weird thing is that my > penis actually seems larger than it was when flacid. This is > probably not possible at my age and therefore just something > I'm trying to convince myself of. Still, I feel really > great. My mood is good - no aggressive feelings - just as > mellow as usual. > > I am currently heavily involved in political work relating > to the upcoming election which is consuming most of my free > time and keeping me from getting to the gym. However, I did > make it to the gym one day last week and had one of the best > workouts I have had in a long time. Another thing, I > recovered much faster than usual - only mild soreness two > days after the workout. > > Just so you know this dosage is only recommended for four > months and then you cut back. My intention is to follow this > course of action unless I start having some negative side > effects. > > Prime > > > > > > > > > > I don't know if all of that can come from > high E2, but > > > I am sure not any expert. > > > > > > > > Mine is high, and I am NOT on TRT. > > > > I have fatigue, water retention, and > basically a total > > > lack of interest in sex. I think these are from > the high E2 > > > in me anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2010 Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 Phil (or Barb), I just can't figure this out. First of all, those lab results were when I was injecting 50mg T-Cyp twice/week and Anastrazole (.25) 3x week. I felt like crud, but wood was fine. In fact, it was really srong, painful at times. So... my non-HRT doc (long story - it's because I'm traveling and she was my doc for a oong time), ran those tests (I had her do it because of the cost) and she suggested I back off of the Adex. I did and felt a little better. To feel better, she suggested I go to one shot a week. I feel better that way (the following week) except.... It's been 6 days since the last shot (Sunday shot, it's now Saturday) and I'm feeling poorly again. My wood is fine (very strong), but I keep getting these episodes of nausea, and some sweating. I had her pull blood on Thursday but I don't have the results yet. As well, whenever I feel like crud, if I check it, my body temp is low. Right now I don't feel well and it's 96.7. It sure sounds like a thyroid issue. She ran thyroid blood tests and said she wants to wait a month and run them again to see if the numbers (I don't remember which ones), change - if they drop any further. She found no antibodies. I'm thinking of doing another 50mg of T-CYp, but I am cautious because I don't know if testosetrone is helping or hurting my thyroid opr whatever it is that's keeping my body temp from going up and down (yesterday evening it was 98.5). Question is, does the testosterone affect the thyroid? If so, does it help or hurt? Should I take another shot or is the T-Cyp actually hurting me? Any ideas are appreciated. Bill ________________________________ From: philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 11:59:10 AM Subject: Re: Re: E2 symptoms?  Do you mean about your E of 20 if this is Estradiol E2 this is a good levels your weak wood is not from E2 with a level this good. But other hormones being off still can do this. Co-Moderator Phil > > > > > > > > > From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...> > > > > > Subject: Re: E2 > symptoms? > > > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, September 29, 2010, > 1:21 > > PM > > > > > I don't know if all of that can come > > > > > from high E2, but I am sure not any > expert. > > > > > > > > > > Mine is high, and I am NOT on TRT. > > > > > I have fatigue, water retention, and > > basically a > > > total > > > > lack > > > > > of interest in sex. I think these are > from > > the > > > high E2 > > > > in me > > > > > anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2010 Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 It is possible I lost all of my libido as I turned 50 got some bad ED and could not reach an orgasm. First thing that helped me was getting E2 down then I found out I was secondary so we started to treat all my low normal hormones Cortisol, Thyroid, Ferritin and Iron, Growth Hormone and Folic Acid. In time I got my sex life back feel like having sex everyday. It's to bad my wife is not up to this at here age 64 I am 66 do what I need to do to keep my self satisfied with out cheating on my wife. Co-Moderator Phil > From: Primemuscle <Primemuscle@...> > Subject: Re: E2 symptoms? > > Date: Saturday, October 2, 2010, 3:00 AM > > One thing I have going for me is that aside from having > hypogonadism is that I enjoy really excellent health. I > would like to believe this is my reward for a lifetime of > healthy eating and a commitment to hitting the gym on a very > regular basis. All things have a cause and effect. I believe > for me hypogonadism is the cause of my becoming a gym rat > early on and the effect is that it has paid off in good > health. However, considering my commitment to working out, I > should look like a pro bodybuilder and I don't....I am happy > to be healthy though. > > Still, I would give my eye teeth to be an oversexed stud. > In our culture, so much about being male is measured by one > being sexually potent. In this respect, I feel like I have > been shortchanged. > > I'm a nice looking guy. Women and men flirt with me even at > my senior age of sixty-six. Instead of making me feel good > this strikes fear in me because I feel I could never live up > to anyone's sexual expectations, not that I would ever cheat > on my wife anyway. However, I would kill to feel sexually > confidant....just once. > > > > > > > > I don't know if all of that can come from high > E2, but I am sure not any expert. > > > > > > Mine is high, and I am NOT on TRT. > > > I have fatigue, water retention, and basically a > total lack of interest in sex. I think these are from the > high E2 in me anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2010 Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 Bill, I was on TRT long before I treated my low Cortisol and Thyroid levels. First I tested my Thyroid it was low but to my Dr. at the time he felt is was OK. I then tested my morning fasting Cortisol levels and they were 9 still this same dam Dr. said I was OK in range. Also at the time I was on Androgel and the best I could get my TT levels were about 550 to 600 top of range at the time using a loco lab 1593. As I learned about them problems I found out the stress of low levels of TT can stress out ones Adrenals and you end up with Adrenal Fatigue adding to this low Thyroid. So here is what I found one needs to get there Total Testosterone levels up into the upper 1/3 of there labs then go by how they feel. And to keep there E2 Estradiol levels down to about 20 pg/ml higher levels mess with Thyroid. You need to bring up low normal levels of other hormones things like Cortisol if your labs are less then 15 do a 4x's in a day Saliva test if your low across the day go on HC meds. Treat your Thyroid bring your Total T3 & T4 levels up and get your Free T3 levels up past mid range. Then go by how you feel. Lower levels of Testosterone make us feel like crap you do a shot feel better but as it falls off your end up to low this is when we feel like crap. Adding in HCG keeps your Testis working and all the LH cells in your body and brain. If you have one hormone off your body will take from the other hormones to try to balance it this makes things worse. Co-Moderator Phil > > > > > > > > > > > From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...> > > > > > > Subject: Re: E2 > > symptoms? > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, September 29, > 2010, > > 1:21 > > > PM > > > > > > I don't know if all of that can > come > > > > > > from high E2, but I am sure not > any > > expert. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mine is high, and I am NOT on > TRT. > > > > > > I have fatigue, water retention, > and > > > basically a > > > > total > > > > > lack > > > > > > of interest in sex. I think these > are > > from > > > the > > > > high E2 > > > > > in me > > > > > > anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2010 Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 Thanks Phil, So, does it makes sense (at least for today) to inject some T-CYp and see if I feel better or worse? Bill ________________________________ From: philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> Sent: Sat, October 2, 2010 8:45:16 AM Subject: Re: Re: E2 symptoms?  Bill, I was on TRT long before I treated my low Cortisol and Thyroid levels. First I tested my Thyroid it was low but to my Dr. at the time he felt is was OK. I then tested my morning fasting Cortisol levels and they were 9 still this same dam Dr. said I was OK in range. Also at the time I was on Androgel and the best I could get my TT levels were about 550 to 600 top of range at the time using a loco lab 1593. As I learned about them problems I found out the stress of low levels of TT can stress out ones Adrenals and you end up with Adrenal Fatigue adding to this low Thyroid. So here is what I found one needs to get there Total Testosterone levels up into the upper 1/3 of there labs then go by how they feel. And to keep there E2 Estradiol levels down to about 20 pg/ml higher levels mess with Thyroid. You need to bring up low normal levels of other hormones things like Cortisol if your labs are less then 15 do a 4x's in a day Saliva test if your low across the day go on HC meds. Treat your Thyroid bring your Total T3 & T4 levels up and get your Free T3 levels up past mid range. Then go by how you feel. Lower levels of Testosterone make us feel like crap you do a shot feel better but as it falls off your end up to low this is when we feel like crap. Adding in HCG keeps your Testis working and all the LH cells in your body and brain. If you have one hormone off your body will take from the other hormones to try to balance it this makes things worse. Co-Moderator Phil > > > > > > > > > > > From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...> > > > > > > Subject: Re: E2 > > symptoms? > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, September 29, > 2010, > > 1:21 > > > PM > > > > > > I don't know if all of that can > come > > > > > > from high E2, but I am sure not > any > > expert. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mine is high, and I am NOT on > TRT. > > > > > > I have fatigue, water retention, > and > > > basically a > > > > total > > > > > lack > > > > > > of interest in sex. I think these > are > > from > > > the > > > > high E2 > > > > > in me > > > > > > anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2010 Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 Here's another qualm I have... have you heard of guys who had adverse reactions to Anastrazole or Arimidex other than its affect on E2? I.e., I'm wondering if the Anastrazole which I am taking (only once in a while), keeps blowing up how I feel, but NOT because of how it affects my E2. My E2 was 20 and I was feeling horrible. I can't say for sure, but it seemed like how I was feeling got worse when my doc started Anastrazole. I wonder if it is screwing up my body in some way other than my estrogen.... Bill ________________________________ From: philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> Sent: Sat, October 2, 2010 8:45:16 AM Subject: Re: Re: E2 symptoms?  Bill, I was on TRT long before I treated my low Cortisol and Thyroid levels. First I tested my Thyroid it was low but to my Dr. at the time he felt is was OK. I then tested my morning fasting Cortisol levels and they were 9 still this same dam Dr. said I was OK in range. Also at the time I was on Androgel and the best I could get my TT levels were about 550 to 600 top of range at the time using a loco lab 1593. As I learned about them problems I found out the stress of low levels of TT can stress out ones Adrenals and you end up with Adrenal Fatigue adding to this low Thyroid. So here is what I found one needs to get there Total Testosterone levels up into the upper 1/3 of there labs then go by how they feel. And to keep there E2 Estradiol levels down to about 20 pg/ml higher levels mess with Thyroid. You need to bring up low normal levels of other hormones things like Cortisol if your labs are less then 15 do a 4x's in a day Saliva test if your low across the day go on HC meds. Treat your Thyroid bring your Total T3 & T4 levels up and get your Free T3 levels up past mid range. Then go by how you feel. Lower levels of Testosterone make us feel like crap you do a shot feel better but as it falls off your end up to low this is when we feel like crap. Adding in HCG keeps your Testis working and all the LH cells in your body and brain. If you have one hormone off your body will take from the other hormones to try to balance it this makes things worse. Co-Moderator Phil > > > > > > > > > > > From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...> > > > > > > Subject: Re: E2 > > symptoms? > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, September 29, > 2010, > > 1:21 > > > PM > > > > > > I don't know if all of that can > come > > > > > > from high E2, but I am sure not > any > > expert. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mine is high, and I am NOT on > TRT. > > > > > > I have fatigue, water retention, > and > > > basically a > > > > total > > > > > lack > > > > > > of interest in sex. I think these > are > > from > > > the > > > > high E2 > > > > > in me > > > > > > anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2010 Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 Yes try it. Co-Moderator Phil > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > E2 > > > symptoms? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, September > 29, > > 2010, > > > 1:21 > > > > PM > > > > > > > I don't know if all of that > can > > come > > > > > > > from high E2, but I am sure > not > > any > > > expert. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mine is high, and I am NOT > on > > TRT. > > > > > > > I have fatigue, water > retention, > > and > > > > basically a > > > > > total > > > > > > lack > > > > > > > of interest in sex. I think > these > > are > > > from > > > > the > > > > > high E2 > > > > > > in me > > > > > > > anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2010 Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 What you were at 20 and your Dr. put you on Arimidex how much even if your SHBG is low Arimidex is to strong to take with levels this low it will drive down your E2 and yes it can make you feel like crap. Why would you try to lower a level lower then 20 unless you ended up at 20 taking it. Now 20 still can be to low if your SHBG levels are higher. Co-Moderator Phil > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > E2 > > > symptoms? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, September > 29, > > 2010, > > > 1:21 > > > > PM > > > > > > > I don't know if all of that > can > > come > > > > > > > from high E2, but I am sure > not > > any > > > expert. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mine is high, and I am NOT > on > > TRT. > > > > > > > I have fatigue, water > retention, > > and > > > > basically a > > > > > total > > > > > > lack > > > > > > > of interest in sex. I think > these > > are > > > from > > > > the > > > > > high E2 > > > > > > in me > > > > > > > anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2010 Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 Bill Totten <bill_totten@...> wrote: > when I was injecting 50mg T-Cyp twice/week and Anastrazole (.25) 3x week. I felt like crud, but wood was fine. In fact, it was really srong, painful at times. Then this is your body saying that dose is too much. > back off of the Adex. I did and felt a little better. To feel > better, she suggested I go to one shot a week. I feel better that way (the following week) except.... > It's been 6 days since the last shot (Sunday shot, it's now Saturday) and I'm feeling poorly again. My wood is fine (very strong), but I keep getting these episodes of nausea, and some sweating. I had her pull blood on Thursday but I > don't have the results yet. As well, whenever I feel like crud, if I check it, my body temp is low. Right now I don't feel well and it's 96.7. Body temp is mostly thyroid-driven, unless you have a fever, of course. With that low a temp, I would guess that cortisol has been down-regulated too, and that could cause nausea. If adrenaline kicks in to compensate, that could cause sweating. > I'm thinking of doing another 50mg of T-CYp, but I am cautious because I don't know if testosetrone is helping or hurting my thyroid opr whatever it is that's keeping my body temp from going up and down (yesterday evening it was 98.5). > Question is, does the testosterone affect the thyroid? If so, does it help or hurt? Should I take another shot or is the T-Cyp actually hurting me? Here's a quote from Dr. no's website definitivemind.com " Adding testosterone can reduce thyroid binding globulin, helping increase free thyroid hormone. Testosterone can also help reduce inflammatory cytokine signaling. Reducing insulin resistance also helps reduce inflammatory signaling. These and other changes due to additional testosterone can help improve energy. However, adding testosterone can also reduce thyroid releasing hormone (TRH) produced by the testes. This can, in some men, reduce thyroid hormone signaling significantly, promoting fatigue. " So to answer your question, does it help or hurt? The answer is yes. How long the testosterone in you lasts is highly dependent on your SHBG levels, which are highly dependent on other hormones. Dr. no finds SHBG is too low, not too high, most times. I think your thyroid labs might give you some answers. Barb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2010 Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 Barb, Which dose are you referring to when you say it is too much, the T-Cyp or the Anastrazole? Bill ________________________________ From: Barb <baba@...> Sent: Sat, October 2, 2010 9:36:41 AM Subject: Re: E2 symptoms?  Bill Totten <bill_totten@...> wrote: > when I was injecting 50mg T-Cyp twice/week and Anastrazole (.25) 3x week. I >felt like crud, but wood was fine. In fact, it was really srong, painful at >times. Then this is your body saying that dose is too much. > back off of the Adex. I did and felt a little better. To feel > better, she suggested I go to one shot a week. I feel better that way (the >following week) except.... > It's been 6 days since the last shot (Sunday shot, it's now Saturday) and I'm >feeling poorly again. My wood is fine (very strong), but I keep getting these >episodes of nausea, and some sweating. I had her pull blood on Thursday but I > > don't have the results yet. As well, whenever I feel like crud, if I check >it, my body temp is low. Right now I don't feel well and it's 96.7. Body temp is mostly thyroid-driven, unless you have a fever, of course. With that low a temp, I would guess that cortisol has been down-regulated too, and that could cause nausea. If adrenaline kicks in to compensate, that could cause sweating. > I'm thinking of doing another 50mg of T-CYp, but I am cautious because I don't >know if testosetrone is helping or hurting my thyroid opr whatever it is that's >keeping my body temp from going up and down (yesterday evening it was 98.5). > > Question is, does the testosterone affect the thyroid? If so, does it help or >hurt? Should I take another shot or is the T-Cyp actually hurting me? Here's a quote from Dr. no's website definitivemind.com " Adding testosterone can reduce thyroid binding globulin, helping increase free thyroid hormone. Testosterone can also help reduce inflammatory cytokine signaling. Reducing insulin resistance also helps reduce inflammatory signaling. These and other changes due to additional testosterone can help improve energy. However, adding testosterone can also reduce thyroid releasing hormone (TRH) produced by the testes. This can, in some men, reduce thyroid hormone signaling significantly, promoting fatigue. " So to answer your question, does it help or hurt? The answer is yes. How long the testosterone in you lasts is highly dependent on your SHBG levels, which are highly dependent on other hormones. Dr. no finds SHBG is too low, not too high, most times. I think your thyroid labs might give you some answers. Barb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2010 Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 Phil, I had been taking it for 2-3 weeks and then I tested at 20. 3-4 weeks prior, befiore I took any Anastrazole, my 24-hour urine showed high T and high E which is why the doc started me on adding Anastrazole. He also had me start DHEA, but I stopped that after two days. I just started feeling worse, so I eliminated it. The worst two weeks I have had in the last 6 months are the two weeks after I added Anastrazole and DHEA. The Anastrazole was taken on my (two) shot days. That is why I had some blood drawn - beacsue I wasn't feeling well. And that blood test showed good numbers, though I felt like crud. That's the most perplexing part of it. When I felt the (just about) worst, my numbers were good. After that 20 reading, I kept taking it, but only once a week because I thought my symptoms (bloating, labored breathing) indicated high E so I took a pill.  One of my messages you responded to stated that you would take one if you had symptoms and it would help within an hour or so. It was after that when I wrote you another message about what symptoms indicate high or low E (I was trying to determine if my E was high or low). It looks like maybe I thought my E was high when it wasn't.  Heck, I don't know any more..... I'll take a shot and not take any more Anastrazole. I realize I seem to be all over the place, but I'm providing the best info I can. Thanks for everything, Bill ________________________________ From: philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> Sent: Sat, October 2, 2010 9:30:14 AM Subject: Re: Re: E2 symptoms?  What you were at 20 and your Dr. put you on Arimidex how much even if your SHBG is low Arimidex is to strong to take with levels this low it will drive down your E2 and yes it can make you feel like crap. Why would you try to lower a level lower then 20 unless you ended up at 20 taking it. Now 20 still can be to low if your SHBG levels are higher. Co-Moderator Phil > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > E2 > > > symptoms? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, September > 29, > > 2010, > > > 1:21 > > > > PM > > > > > > > I don't know if all of that > can > > come > > > > > > > from high E2, but I am sure > not > > any > > > expert. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mine is high, and I am NOT > on > > TRT. > > > > > > > I have fatigue, water > retention, > > and > > > > basically a > > > > > total > > > > > > lack > > > > > > > of interest in sex. I think > these > > are > > > from > > > > the > > > > > high E2 > > > > > > in me > > > > > > > anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2010 Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 Another quote from Dr. no: " Not every man requires treatment with Arimidex to control estrogen. Very few of the men I treat require it, even with estradiol levels in the high 30s. Some need it since the higher estradiol levels may cause downstream problems resulting in anxiety - for example, by reducing free thyroid hormone or increasing immune system inflammatory signaling or by direct estrogen nervous system effects on behavior. Some men feel worse when Arimidex is added to control estradiol production. Arimidex may cause other changes in intercellular signaling other than just blocking Aromatase enzyme which may be poorly studied, causing adverse effects aside from those obtained from blocking Aromatase. " It could be either, or the combination. Hard to tell without labs. The human body is extremely complex with all the inter-related hormones/neurotransmitters. Your guess is as good as mine. Sorry, but HRT in both men and women is kind of a trial and error thing using labs to guide the guesses. Barb > > when I was injecting 50mg T-Cyp twice/week and Anastrazole (.25) 3x week. I > >felt like crud, but wood was fine. In fact, it was really srong, painful at > >times. > > Then this is your body saying that dose is too much. > > > back off of the Adex. I did and felt a little better. To feel > > better, she suggested I go to one shot a week. I feel better that way (the > >following week) except.... > > It's been 6 days since the last shot (Sunday shot, it's now Saturday) and I'm > >feeling poorly again. My wood is fine (very strong), but I keep getting these > >episodes of nausea, and some sweating. I had her pull blood on Thursday but I > > > > don't have the results yet. As well, whenever I feel like crud, if I check > >it, my body temp is low. Right now I don't feel well and it's 96.7. > > Body temp is mostly thyroid-driven, unless you have a fever, of course. With > that low a temp, I would guess that cortisol has been down-regulated too, and > that could cause nausea. If adrenaline kicks in to compensate, that could cause > sweating. > > > > I'm thinking of doing another 50mg of T-CYp, but I am cautious because I don't > >know if testosetrone is helping or hurting my thyroid opr whatever it is that's > >keeping my body temp from going up and down (yesterday evening it was 98.5). > > > > Question is, does the testosterone affect the thyroid? If so, does it help or > >hurt? Should I take another shot or is the T-Cyp actually hurting me? > > Here's a quote from Dr. no's website definitivemind.com > > " Adding testosterone can reduce thyroid binding globulin, helping increase free > thyroid hormone. Testosterone can also help reduce inflammatory cytokine > signaling. Reducing insulin resistance also helps reduce inflammatory signaling. > These and other changes due to additional testosterone can help improve energy. > However, adding testosterone can also reduce thyroid releasing hormone (TRH) > produced by the testes. This can, in some men, reduce thyroid hormone signaling > significantly, promoting fatigue. " > > So to answer your question, does it help or hurt? The answer is yes. > > How long the testosterone in you lasts is highly dependent on your SHBG levels, > which are highly dependent on other hormones. Dr. no finds SHBG is too low, > not too high, most times. I think your thyroid labs might give you some answers. > > Barb > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2010 Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 Bill for some of us it is very hard to keep E2 in the sweet spot I had a very hard time with this for yrs. Until Chilln the mod at Dr. 's forum told me to add more HC at bedtime. Turns out my Cortisol levels were so low at night my T was converting into E2 big time. Now I am on HC Cortef 30 mgs a day all I did was take 5 mgs from my noon dose and take it at bed time. Doing this my E2 leveled off I went from taking 1 mgs a day of Arimidex to .25 mgs every other day and it is still getting better. Try testing your Cortisol levels do a 4x's in day Saliva test a lot of men with low T end up with this problem do to the stress of low T for so long. Co-Moderator Phil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: marc200134470 > <cfs38@...> > > > > > > > > Subject: > Re: > > E2 > > > > symptoms? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, > September > > 29, > > > 2010, > > > > 1:21 > > > > > PM > > > > > > > > I don't know if all of > that > > can > > > come > > > > > > > > from high E2, but I am > sure > > not > > > any > > > > expert. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mine is high, and I am > NOT > > on > > > TRT. > > > > > > > > I have fatigue, water > > retention, > > > and > > > > > basically a > > > > > > total > > > > > > > lack > > > > > > > > of interest in sex. I > think > > these > > > are > > > > from > > > > > the > > > > > > high E2 > > > > > > > in me > > > > > > > > anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2010 Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 OK, I will. ________________________________ From: philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> Sent: Sat, October 2, 2010 10:40:20 AM Subject: Re: Re: E2 symptoms? Â Bill for some of us it is very hard to keep E2 in the sweet spot I had a very hard time with this for yrs. Until Chilln the mod at Dr. 's forum told me to add more HC at bedtime. Turns out my Cortisol levels were so low at night my T was converting into E2 big time. Now I am on HC Cortef 30 mgs a day all I did was take 5 mgs from my noon dose and take it at bed time. Doing this my E2 leveled off I went from taking 1 mgs a day of Arimidex to .25 mgs every other day and it is still getting better. Try testing your Cortisol levels do a 4x's in day Saliva test a lot of men with low T end up with this problem do to the stress of low T for so long. Co-Moderator Phil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: marc200134470 > <cfs38@...> > > > > > > > > Subject: > Re: > > E2 > > > > symptoms? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, > September > > 29, > > > 2010, > > > > 1:21 > > > > > PM > > > > > > > > I don't know if all of > that > > can > > > come > > > > > > > > from high E2, but I am > sure > > not > > > any > > > > expert. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mine is high, and I am > NOT > > on > > > TRT. > > > > > > > > I have fatigue, water > > retention, > > > and > > > > > basically a > > > > > > total > > > > > > > lack > > > > > > > > of interest in sex. I > think > > these > > > are > > > > from > > > > > the > > > > > > high E2 > > > > > > > in me > > > > > > > > anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2010 Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 Thanks Barb. You mentioned my thyroid labs. Here are the results from tests taken last week. TSH 1.74   Range is 0.45 - 4.50 T4  5.6 Range is 4.5 - 12.0 Antithyroglobulin AB  <20 Range is 0-40 Thyroid Peroxidase (TPO) AB  7 Range is 0-34 Bill ________________________________ From: Barb <baba@...> Sent: Sat, October 2, 2010 10:39:32 AM Subject: Re: E2 symptoms?  Another quote from Dr. no: " Not every man requires treatment with Arimidex to control estrogen. Very few of the men I treat require it, even with estradiol levels in the high 30s. Some need it since the higher estradiol levels may cause downstream problems resulting in anxiety - for example, by reducing free thyroid hormone or increasing immune system inflammatory signaling or by direct estrogen nervous system effects on behavior. Some men feel worse when Arimidex is added to control estradiol production. Arimidex may cause other changes in intercellular signaling other than just blocking Aromatase enzyme which may be poorly studied, causing adverse effects aside from those obtained from blocking Aromatase. " It could be either, or the combination. Hard to tell without labs. The human body is extremely complex with all the inter-related hormones/neurotransmitters. Your guess is as good as mine. Sorry, but HRT in both men and women is kind of a trial and error thing using labs to guide the guesses. Barb > > when I was injecting 50mg T-Cyp twice/week and Anastrazole (.25) 3x week. >I > > >felt like crud, but wood was fine. In fact, it was really srong, painful >at > > >times. > > Then this is your body saying that dose is too much. > > > back off of the Adex. I did and felt a little better. To feel > > better, she suggested I go to one shot a week. I feel better that way >(the > > >following week) except.... > > It's been 6 days since the last shot (Sunday shot, it's now Saturday) and I'm > > >feeling poorly again. My wood is fine (very strong), but I keep getting >these > > >episodes of nausea, and some sweating. I had her pull blood on Thursday >but I > > > > > don't have the results yet. As well, whenever I feel like crud, if I >check > > >it, my body temp is low. Right now I don't feel well and it's 96.7. > > Body temp is mostly thyroid-driven, unless you have a fever, of course. With > that low a temp, I would guess that cortisol has been down-regulated too, and > that could cause nausea. If adrenaline kicks in to compensate, that could cause > > sweating. > > > > I'm thinking of doing another 50mg of T-CYp, but I am cautious because I >don't > > >know if testosetrone is helping or hurting my thyroid opr whatever it is >that's > > >keeping my body temp from going up and down (yesterday evening it was >98.5). > > > > > Question is, does the testosterone affect the thyroid? If so, does it >help or > > >hurt? Should I take another shot or is the T-Cyp actually hurting me? > > Here's a quote from Dr. no's website definitivemind.com > > " Adding testosterone can reduce thyroid binding globulin, helping increase free > > thyroid hormone. Testosterone can also help reduce inflammatory cytokine > signaling. Reducing insulin resistance also helps reduce inflammatory >signaling. > > These and other changes due to additional testosterone can help improve energy. > > However, adding testosterone can also reduce thyroid releasing hormone (TRH) > produced by the testes. This can, in some men, reduce thyroid hormone signaling > > significantly, promoting fatigue. " > > So to answer your question, does it help or hurt? The answer is yes. > > How long the testosterone in you lasts is highly dependent on your SHBG levels, > > which are highly dependent on other hormones. Dr. no finds SHBG is too >low, > > not too high, most times. I think your thyroid labs might give you some >answers. > > Barb > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2010 Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 Hi Bill, I found out the hard way that I am very sensitive to Arimidex. With me it takes me down real fast and it can make you feel like crap. Joint pains being one of the worst. Took a while to figure it out, at first I thought it was just side effects of the Arimidex but it reality was that I had just gone way to low. One test that I had later found that I was down to 6 and that wasn't even when I was hurting bad so how low I was before when I was hurting, I don't know but it for sure was lower than that. Some guys need a lot of Arimidex and some need very little. So unless your doing E2 tests everyday you really don't know how low you may be going between tests. My suggestion would be to just lay of the Arimidex for a while and see if it helps it may take a while. Then if you do feel better after awhile and you seem to be getting symptoms of it being high just start it again but take less and be carful to watch for symptoms of going too low. I found out for me I get along better with DIM because it doesn't move me as fast. Brett Re: E2 > > symptoms? > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, September 29, > 2010, > > 1:21 > > > PM > > > > > > I don't know if all of that can > come > > > > > > from high E2, but I am sure not > any > > expert. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mine is high, and I am NOT on > TRT. > > > > > > I have fatigue, water retention, > and > > > basically a > > > > total > > > > > lack > > > > > > of interest in sex. I think these > are > > from > > > the > > > > high E2 > > > > > in me > > > > > > anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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