Guest guest Posted November 15, 2000 Report Share Posted November 15, 2000 Subcutaneous injections are done by sliding the needle in at an angle into the skin. No blood appears as your only injecting it under the skin. IM is straight in at 90 degree angle. subcutaneous > Can someone please explain what subcutaneous is and > how it differs from IM. > > Thanks, > > > __________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2000 Report Share Posted November 16, 2000 Subcutaneous means literally " under the skin " and the product is injected into the tissue just below the skin surface......hence the short, fine needle. IM means intramuscular and the product is injected directly into a large muscle.. hence the need for a larger, wider bore needle...this is harder to do to yourself unless you are really good at keeping that muscle relaxed! Anne > Subcutaneous injections are done by sliding the needle in at an angle into > the skin. No blood appears as your only injecting it under the skin. IM is > straight in at 90 degree angle. > subcutaneous > > > > Can someone please explain what subcutaneous is and > > how it differs from IM. > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2000 Report Share Posted November 16, 2000 on 11/15/00 11:45 AM, R. Bullock at bullocks@... wrote: > Subcutaneous injections are done by sliding the needle in at an angle into > the skin. No blood appears as your only injecting it under the skin. IM is > straight in at 90 degree angle. It's actually best to do subq injections by pinching up a bit of skin with one hand and then injecting straight in at 90 degrees. As long as you use a needle that is no longer than 1/2 " and you do the injection where you have some fat, then you won't go deeper than subq. The 45 degree technique is very common but my MD told me it hurts a lot more that way because you're actually prone to hitting more little nerve endings that way. Hud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 Here check this link. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03hX8TwCduA Co-Moderator Phil > From: <rubennolastname@...> > Subject: Subcutaneous > > Date: Saturday, March 19, 2011, 4:28 PM > Members, > > Is there a quick guide to learn how to do subQ injections > for testosterone? I > am currently doing it IM, but I am intrigued by doing it > subQ for several > reasons: Less pain/preparation/frequency. I am > on vitamin B-12 subQ > injections. > > My questions are: > > Does the same method work for Testosterone? > Are there any areas of the body preferred? > What size needles are best for Testosterone? > > All inputs on and off line are appreciated. > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Phil,.....what has caused the switch to SubQ from IM? Is this recent and widespread? While I have never been on it before, I have known a few folks that were and they generally injected IM in the outer upper thigh muscle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 The thinking was shooting Test C into fat would drive up Estraidol turns out stooting subQ it takes a lot longer for the T to get into the blood and this helps keep you more leveled and holds down E2 levels. I don't have the link to this but here is a cut and paste. ================================================= STABLE TESTOSTERONE LEVELS ACHIEVED WITH SUBCUTANEOUS TESTOSTERONE INJECTIONS M.B. Greenspan, C.M. Chang Division of Urology, Department of Surgery, McMaster University, Hamilton, ON, Canada Objectives: The preferred technique of androgen replacement has been intramuscular (IM) testosterone, but wide variations in testosterone levels are often seen. Subcutaneous (SC) testosterone injection is a novel approach; however, its physiological effects are unclear. We therefore investigated the sustainability of stable testosterone levels using SC therapy. Patients and methods: Between May and September 2005, we conducted a small pilot study involving 10 male patients with symptomatic late-onset hypogonadism. Every patient had been stable on TE 200 mg IM for 41 year. Patients were instructed to self-inject with testosterone enanthate (TE) 100 mg SC (DELATESTRYL 200 mg/cc, Theramed Corp, Canada) into the anterior abdomen once weekly. Some patients were down-titrated to 50 mg based on their total testosterone (T) at 4 weeks. Informed consent was obtained as SC testosterone administration is not officially approved by Health Canada. T levels were measured before and 24 hours after injection during weeks 1, 2, 3, and 4, and 96 hours after injection in week 6 and 8. At week 12, PSA, CBC, and T levels were measured however; the week 12 data are still being collected. Results: Prior to initiation of SC therapy, T was 19.14+3.48 nmol/l, hemoglobin 15.8+1.3 g/dl, hematocrit 0.47+0.02, and PSA 1.05+0.65 ng/ml. During the first 4 weeks, there was a steady increase in pre-injection T from 19.14+3.48 to 23.89+9.15 nmol/l (p�0.1). However, after 8 weeks the post-injection T (25.77+7.67 nmol/l) remained similar to that of week 1 (27.46+12.91 nmol/l). Patients tolerated this therapy with no adverse effects. Conclusions: A once-week SC injection of 50�100 mg of TE appears to achieve sustainable and stable levels of physiological T. This technique offers fewer physician visits and the use of smaller quantity of medication, thus lower costs. However, the long term clinical and physiological effects of this therapy need further evaluation. Co-Moderator Phil > From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...> > Subject: Re: Subcutaneous > > Date: Monday, March 21, 2011, 12:38 PM > Phil,.....what has caused the switch > to SubQ from IM? > Is this recent and widespread? > > While I have never been on it before, I have known a few > folks that were and they generally injected IM in the outer > upper thigh muscle. > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Thanks for the info. I was wondering exactly the same thing about injecting into fat and conversion to E2. I have so little body fat I am sure I could use a 1/2 " needle for this. Since I am asking questions,......lets assume the cream/gel works fine for me in terms of getting through my skin. Which do you think would be better in terms of E2 conversion, and also in terms of raising DHT levels too high? Shots or transdermal? I know I am getting a slight bit ahead of myself, but I am pretty certain this Clomid isn't going to do much for me, and I will end up on TRT very soon. I don't really care anymore, as I am so stinking tired of feeling like garbage everyday at this point. I am ready to try it in either form. > > The thinking was shooting Test C into fat would drive up Estraidol turns out stooting subQ it takes a lot longer for the T to get into the blood and this helps keep you more leveled and holds down E2 levels. > I don't have the link to this but here is a cut and paste. > ================================================= > STABLE TESTOSTERONE LEVELS ACHIEVED > WITH SUBCUTANEOUS TESTOSTERONE > INJECTIONS > M.B. Greenspan, C.M. Chang > Division of Urology, Department of Surgery, McMaster University, > Hamilton, ON, Canada > Objectives: The preferred technique of androgen replacement > has been intramuscular (IM) testosterone, but wide > variations in testosterone levels are often seen. Subcutaneous > (SC) testosterone injection is a novel approach; however, > its physiological effects are unclear. We therefore investigated > the sustainability of stable testosterone levels using > SC therapy. Patients and methods: Between May and > September 2005, we conducted a small pilot study involving > 10 male patients with symptomatic late-onset hypogonadism. > Every patient had been stable on TE 200 mg IM for > 41 year. Patients were instructed to self-inject with > testosterone enanthate (TE) 100 mg SC (DELATESTRYL > 200 mg/cc, Theramed Corp, Canada) into the anterior > abdomen once weekly. Some patients were down-titrated > to 50 mg based on their total testosterone (T) at 4 weeks. > Informed consent was obtained as SC testosterone administration > is not officially approved by Health Canada. T > levels were measured before and 24 hours after injection > during weeks 1, 2, 3, and 4, and 96 hours after injection > in week 6 and 8. At week 12, PSA, CBC, and T levels > were measured however; the week 12 data are still being > collected. Results: Prior to initiation of SC therapy, T > was 19.14+3.48 nmol/l, hemoglobin 15.8+1.3 g/dl, hematocrit > 0.47+0.02, and PSA 1.05+0.65 ng/ml. During > the first 4 weeks, there was a steady increase in > pre-injection T from 19.14+3.48 to 23.89+9.15 nmol/l > (p�0.1). However, after 8 weeks the post-injection T > (25.77+7.67 nmol/l) remained similar to that of week 1 > (27.46+12.91 nmol/l). Patients tolerated this therapy with > no adverse effects. Conclusions: A once-week SC injection > of 50�100 mg of TE appears to achieve sustainable and > stable levels of physiological T. This technique offers > fewer physician visits and the use of smaller quantity of > medication, thus lower costs. However, the long term > clinical and physiological effects of this therapy need further > evaluation. > > Co-Moderator > Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Here is how I feel about someone going on TRT try gels first if they work do them as long as you can. As for E2 and DHT we are all diff. and react in diff. ways to trt. Some men don't ever have a problem with high e2 level on TRT others they have higher levels just being on TRT gels or shots. So if you need to go on TRT try a compouned Gel or cream you cover less area and have less of a problem with DHT and E2. http://www.collegepharmacy.com/menshealth/andropause.asp If you try this one tell them Dr. sent you. ANEWrx 523 Parkway View Drive Pittsburgh, PA 15205 877-788-8908 (ph) 877-788-8948 (fax) Monday - Friday (9am - 6pm) Saturday 10am - 2pm www.ANEWrx.com Co-Moderator Phil > From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...> > Subject: Re: Subcutaneous > > Date: Monday, March 21, 2011, 1:09 PM > > > Thanks for the info. > I was wondering exactly the same thing about injecting into > fat and conversion to E2. > > I have so little body fat I am sure I could use a 1/2 " > needle for this. > > Since I am asking questions,......lets assume the cream/gel > works fine for me in terms of getting through my skin. > > Which do you think would be better in terms of E2 > conversion, and also in terms of raising DHT levels too > high? Shots or transdermal? > > I know I am getting a slight bit ahead of myself, but I am > pretty certain this Clomid isn't going to do much for me, > and I will end up on TRT very soon. I don't really care > anymore, as I am so stinking tired of feeling like garbage > everyday at this point. > > I am ready to try it in either form. > > > > > > > The thinking was shooting Test C into fat would drive > up Estraidol turns out stooting subQ it takes a lot longer > for the T to get into the blood and this helps keep you more > leveled and holds down E2 levels. > > I don't have the link to this but here is a cut and > paste. > > ================================================= > > STABLE TESTOSTERONE LEVELS ACHIEVED > > WITH SUBCUTANEOUS TESTOSTERONE > > INJECTIONS > > M.B. Greenspan, C.M. Chang > > Division of Urology, Department of Surgery, McMaster > University, > > Hamilton, ON, Canada > > Objectives: The preferred technique of androgen > replacement > > has been intramuscular (IM) testosterone, but wide > > variations in testosterone levels are often seen. > Subcutaneous > > (SC) testosterone injection is a novel approach; > however, > > its physiological effects are unclear. We therefore > investigated > > the sustainability of stable testosterone levels > using > > SC therapy. Patients and methods: Between May and > > September 2005, we conducted a small pilot study > involving > > 10 male patients with symptomatic late-onset > hypogonadism. > > Every patient had been stable on TE 200 mg IM for > > 41 year. Patients were instructed to self-inject with > > testosterone enanthate (TE) 100 mg SC (DELATESTRYL > > 200 mg/cc, Theramed Corp, Canada) into the anterior > > abdomen once weekly. Some patients were down-titrated > > to 50 mg based on their total testosterone (T) at 4 > weeks. > > Informed consent was obtained as SC testosterone > administration > > is not officially approved by Health Canada. T > > levels were measured before and 24 hours after > injection > > during weeks 1, 2, 3, and 4, and 96 hours after > injection > > in week 6 and 8. At week 12, PSA, CBC, and T levels > > were measured however; the week 12 data are still > being > > collected. Results: Prior to initiation of SC therapy, > T > > was 19.14+3.48 nmol/l, hemoglobin 15.8+1.3 g/dl, > hematocrit > > 0.47+0.02, and PSA 1.05+0.65 ng/ml. During > > the first 4 weeks, there was a steady increase in > > pre-injection T from 19.14+3.48 to 23.89+9.15 nmol/l > > (p�0.1). However, after 8 weeks the > post-injection T > > (25.77+7.67 nmol/l) remained similar to that of week > 1 > > (27.46+12.91 nmol/l). Patients tolerated this therapy > with > > no adverse effects. Conclusions: A once-week SC > injection > > of 50�100 mg of TE appears to achieve sustainable > and > > stable levels of physiological T. This technique > offers > > fewer physician visits and the use of smaller quantity > of > > medication, thus lower costs. However, the long term > > clinical and physiological effects of this therapy > need further > > evaluation. > > > > Co-Moderator > > Phil > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Thanks again Phil,.....I have a compounding pharmacy that is local. My doc uses it all the time for compounded items. I would also be getting my syringes, etc. from them as well if I end up doing shots at some point. I am lucky in the fact that my insurance has no issue with my doctor, nor what he prescribes. First thing I had to pay for was the Clomid, but he told me it would happen initially. If by a miracle it works, he will simply write a letter saying it is medically necessary for me. Even if that doesn't work it is cheap enough for what I would have to take. As before though, my hopes are not high. I don't feel a bit different at this point. > > Here is how I feel about someone going on TRT try gels first if they work do them as long as you can. As for E2 and DHT we are all diff. and react in diff. ways to trt. Some men don't ever have a problem with high e2 level on TRT others they have higher levels just being on TRT gels or shots. So if you need to go on TRT try a compouned Gel or cream you cover less area and have less of a problem with DHT and E2. > http://www.collegepharmacy.com/menshealth/andropause.asp > If you try this one tell them Dr. sent you. > ANEWrx > 523 Parkway View Drive > Pittsburgh, PA 15205 > 877-788-8908 (ph) > 877-788-8948 (fax) > Monday - Friday (9am - 6pm) > Saturday 10am - 2pm > > www.ANEWrx.com > > Co-Moderator > Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 It's hard to say some times clomid works levels go up but one does not feel it so fast. Co-Moderator Phil > From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...> > Subject: Re: Subcutaneous > > Date: Monday, March 21, 2011, 2:17 PM > > > Thanks again Phil,.....I have a compounding pharmacy that > is local. > My doc uses it all the time for compounded items. > > I would also be getting my syringes, etc. from them as well > if I end up doing shots at some point. I am lucky in the > fact that my insurance has no issue with my doctor, nor what > he prescribes. > > First thing I had to pay for was the Clomid, but he told me > it would happen initially. If by a miracle it works, he will > simply write a letter saying it is medically necessary for > me. > > Even if that doesn't work it is cheap enough for what I > would have to take. As before though, my hopes are not high. > I don't feel a bit different at this point. > > > > > > Here is how I feel about someone going on TRT try gels > first if they work do them as long as you can. As for > E2 and DHT we are all diff. and react in diff. ways to > trt. Some men don't ever have a problem with high e2 > level on TRT others they have higher levels just being on > TRT gels or shots. So if you need to go on TRT try a > compouned Gel or cream you cover less area and have less of > a problem with DHT and E2. > > http://www.collegepharmacy.com/menshealth/andropause.asp > > If you try this one tell them Dr. sent you. > > ANEWrx > > 523 Parkway View Drive > > Pittsburgh, PA 15205 > > 877-788-8908 (ph) > > 877-788-8948 (fax) > > Monday - Friday (9am - 6pm) > > Saturday 10am - 2pm > > > > www.ANEWrx.com > > > > Co-Moderator > > Phil > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 I tried Clomid for a month 2 yrs ago and leveled off at a test level of 370. With no test treatment I am under 200 so at least for me it does increase test levels... but not quite enough. W > > > > > > Here is how I feel about someone going on TRT try gels > > first if they work do them as long as you can. As for > > E2 and DHT we are all diff. and react in diff. ways to > > trt. Some men don't ever have a problem with high e2 > > level on TRT others they have higher levels just being on > > TRT gels or shots. So if you need to go on TRT try a > > compouned Gel or cream you cover less area and have less of > > a problem with DHT and E2. > > > http://www.collegepharmacy.com/menshealth/andropause.asp > > > If you try this one tell them Dr. sent you. > > > ANEWrx > > > 523 Parkway View Drive > > > Pittsburgh, PA 15205 > > > 877-788-8908 (ph) > > > 877-788-8948 (fax) > > > Monday - Friday (9am - 6pm) > > > Saturday 10am - 2pm > > > > > > www.ANEWrx.com > > > > > > Co-Moderator > > > Phil > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Reasons why restarts fail is because one needs to proper evaluate all horones, thyroid, and nutrition, lifestyle imbalances before commencing a restart. When doing restarts I prep people some times for 4 months prior before starting them to make sure all variables are in check to give the person the optimal chance to keep levels up after clomid is stopped. > > > > > > > > Here is how I feel about someone going on TRT try gels > > > first if they work do them as long as you can. As for > > > E2 and DHT we are all diff. and react in diff. ways to > > > trt. Some men don't ever have a problem with high e2 > > > level on TRT others they have higher levels just being on > > > TRT gels or shots. So if you need to go on TRT try a > > > compouned Gel or cream you cover less area and have less of > > > a problem with DHT and E2. > > > > http://www.collegepharmacy.com/menshealth/andropause.asp > > > > If you try this one tell them Dr. sent you. > > > > ANEWrx > > > > 523 Parkway View Drive > > > > Pittsburgh, PA 15205 > > > > 877-788-8908 (ph) > > > > 877-788-8948 (fax) > > > > Monday - Friday (9am - 6pm) > > > > Saturday 10am - 2pm > > > > > > > > www.ANEWrx.com > > > > > > > > Co-Moderator > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 This can mean your Pituitary is not working right. You needed to be off the clomid and test LH and FSH to see how it all worked. But I am not up on clomid Stim. testing Hardasnails is. Co-Moderator Phil > From: wjj1234 <wjj1234@...> > Subject: Re: Subcutaneous > > Date: Monday, March 21, 2011, 8:24 PM > I tried Clomid for a month 2 yrs ago > and leveled off at a test level of 370. With no test > treatment I am under 200 so at least for me it does increase > test levels... but not quite enough. W > > > > > > > > > > Here is how I feel about someone going on > TRT try gels > > > first if they work do them as long as you can. > As for > > > E2 and DHT we are all diff. and react in diff. > ways to > > > trt. Some men don't ever have a problem with > high e2 > > > level on TRT others they have higher levels just > being on > > > TRT gels or shots. So if you need to go on TRT > try a > > > compouned Gel or cream you cover less area and > have less of > > > a problem with DHT and E2. > > > > http://www.collegepharmacy.com/menshealth/andropause.asp > > > > If you try this one tell them Dr. sent > you. > > > > ANEWrx > > > > 523 Parkway View Drive > > > > Pittsburgh, PA 15205 > > > > 877-788-8908 (ph) > > > > 877-788-8948 (fax) > > > > Monday - Friday (9am - 6pm) > > > > Saturday 10am - 2pm > > > > > > > > www.ANEWrx.com > > > > > > > > Co-Moderator > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 It most likely will not work enough for me either,....at least that is my thinking. My T level moves around quite a bit all on it's own. I have been as low as 209, and will then test 350 plus while taking nothing. This time I was back to the lower 200's again. I have two more half/pills left since I didn't start them when I intended to. Can't figure out why you have to take them right before you go to sleep though? Yesterday and this AM I have seemed to feel a 'slight' bit more energetic, but it could very well be a placebo effect. I go up and down anyway in terms of how bad I feel. From what I have read, my doc seems to be following Shippen in terms of this particular test anyway, as I found an article written by him that suggests this exact dosage for 7 days, and what increase they are looking for. I would be thrilled if this worked, but as before, my hopes are not very high. Regardless I feel very lucky to have found a doctor that knows what he is doing, and will give me all the options for treatment. There are plenty of stories here about folks with bad docs. > > I tried Clomid for a month 2 yrs ago and leveled off at a test level of 370. With no test treatment I am under 200 so at least for me it does increase test levels... but not quite enough. W > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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