Guest guest Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 No Arimidex will lower your Estradiol levels and if you can't get this from your Dr. Indolplex/DIM is sold OTC and works good for most men. HCG acts like LH the message sent to your testis from your brain to tell them to make more Testosterone. When men go on Testosterone meds the brain sees this added T in the blood and slows down sending this LH message and the testis stop working. Here is a copy of a post to me from Dr. to get my Dr. to let me try HCG. ==================================================== He probably feels that since you suffer primary hypogonadism (I am guessing) there is no use in adding HCG to your protocol. There are several reasons why this is not so. First, you have not lost all Leydig cells, so any HCG you take will stimulate those who still function to produce endogenous testosterone. This will support testicular size. We should not ignore this aesthetic consideration. Next, if he reads my work, he will learn that HPTA-suppressed (as all TRT patients are to some extent) also suffer decreased pregenenolone levels, which is the first step after CHOL in all three hormonal pathways which begin with CHOL. HCG increases pregnenolone production, and therefore restores a more natural balance of our hormones. Next, nearly all TRT patients who add in HCG to their regimens report an increased sense of well-being and also libido. These are genuine quality of life issues. Finally, I just instinctively do not want all those LH receptors (including those we have yet to discover and appreciate) unstimulated. ==================================================== Going on HCG is how I found out I am not Primary but Seconday meaning my Pituitary is not working right. ==================================================== ALL ABOUT DIM. Sure here is a few links that are all about it. But there are a lot of Co.'s out there selling DIM that don't work well. Indolplex/DIM is the best it dose not get killed in your stomach when you take it. Diindolylmethane (DIM) is a stable indole found in cruciferous vegetables which promotes a beneficial estrogen metabolism in both women and men. http://www.dimfaq.com/index.htm in this link it's full of links about it. http://qualitycounts.com/fpdim.html http://www.jbc.org/content/278/23/21136.full If you have DIM in caps it's not Indolplex so to take this and to get it to work open the cap pore the DIM into a spoon add some Olive oil and take it this helps to keep it from getting killed in your stomach. The following is some links to where you can buy Indolplex/DIM. http://www.vitaglo.com/e5336.html http://www.vitacost.com/EnzymaticTherapyEstroBalancewithDIM/searchby-PN/searchte\ xt-dim http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0 http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0 http://www.estrobalance.net/ http://www.easyhealthzone.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=PP0108 & click=71 http://www.nbizz.com/longevityclinic/listings/213.html http://www.drugnatural.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD & Store_Code=DMOS & Product_\ Code=156497 http://www.smartbomb.com/itindo9.html?utm_source=mercent & utm_medium=shopcompare & \ utm_content=itindo9 & utm_campaign=mbsdb & mr:trackingCode=C6AEFBD1-E681-DE11-B7F3-0\ 019B9C043EB & mr:referralID=NA http://www.ritecare.com/cgi-bin/cart.pl?db=product_db.dat & category=natural+medic\ ine & method=any_words & search=iti-75336 http://www.naturamart.com/phytopharmica-pms-formula-with-indoplex-120-caps.html How to take Indolplex/DIM take one tablet 120 mgs at dinner time it can take 2 weeks to 2 months to get your Estradiol levels down it’s all about how high you are in your levels. What you need to do is get this down to about 20 pg/ml. When you get this low your night time and morning wood will come back so strong it will wake you up this means most of the time your at your best levels or what I call the sweet spot. Keep taking the DIM but if your wood stops your going down to low so just stop taking it. The day your wood comes back go back on the DIM but cut the tablet in half. If your Testosterone was tested and low but your not on TRT get it tested again you might find your levels came up some 200 to 300 points. http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174 ==================================================== How To Take Arimdex and not go down on your Estradiol to Low. What I found is if you go to low taking arimidex, it's the length of time your to low, if your too low say for 8 weeks it can take your body a longer time to make more Estradiol. Bottom line is to know how not to go to low. Keep a log on your dose and how you feel men going to low can't get it up taking Viagra. I went to low when I first tried Arimidex and did not know about going to low or how one feels to low, so I was low a good 8 weeks. I did not know I was low until my next labs. The best gage I have found to control your Estradiol levels is to gage your night time and morning wood. At good levels or what I call the sweet spot you get your night time and morning wood back so strong it will wake you up and you can hang a coat on it. Most men do good taking .25 mgs or 1/4 of a 1mg. pill, I use a pill cutter to cut the small pill in half then I stand it on the cut end and use a single edge razor to cut this in half. A good way to take arimidex is by how high your levels are. I tested over 90 pg/ml so we tried doing .5 mgs every other day after 8 weeks my next set of labs showed it did not move below 90, test said >90. So we did .5 mgs. every day in about 2 weeks I got some strong night time and morning wood back after not having them for many yrs. I kept doing this dose and in 8 weeks my next set of labs said <20 back in the day labs were like this they did not have to good labs we have today they could not read lower the 20. My Dr. told me this looks to low to stop taking the Arimidex. The one thing I noticed was my wood stopped and stopping the Arimidex my wood came back in about 7 weeks my next test at 8 weeks was 24 pg/ml. So we went back on the Arimidex but the Dr. told me to take .5 mgs every 3 days I was on this dose not a week and lost wood. This is when I figured out going to low you lose wood. And the longer your too low the longer it takes to get levels back up. I stopped the arimidex right away and got my wood back in 4 days. I then after playing with the dose for a time found the best dose is .25mgs every 2 to 3 days. So lets say your labs are less the 50 pg/ml if your take .5 mgs you can go down so dam fast your miss the sweet spot of your wood and go to low. It's best with lower levels 50 and under to do less Arimidex .25mgs every 2 days if later your lose wood when it comes back go to every 3 days. I have found estradiol is the hardest hormone to control, it goes up or down from month to month some times I need .25mgs every 2 days other times I need ..25mgs everyday most of the time I do well on every 3 days. So between wood and labs I do great and so do most of the men I have told this to. I keep a log on how much I am taking and how I feel. Doing this and reading back in my log I was able to tell when I was going to high or to low my Dr. lets me dose my arimidex by how I feel. Over the yrs. I have posted this story until I am blue in the face. Co-Moderator Phil > From: Ade Rowley <spadeboy@...> > Subject: HCG / ARIMIDEX > " Hypogonadism2 " < > > Date: Thursday, March 18, 2010, 9:03 AM > Hey there Phil / Guys > > This one is really aimed at Phil, as it relates to a > comment made some weeks back. > > Phil, do you remember me mentioning some symptoms to you, > one of which was cold penis etc and you said this was > typical of high estradiol? Well, I remember the advice > was the way forward would be either HCG or Arimidex. > So that I have this very clearly in my mind at my next endo > consultation, I just need to be sure - do these two drugs > work the same way by reducing estradiol? > > I am really interested to start HCG as I feel it is a good > way forward. > > Thanks guys > > ade > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 Ade, Also mentioned was cialis daily 5mg. I use all three. HCG was the initial notice in the reduction of cold penis and scrotum and the cialis continues to be the consistency. Vascular circulation and atrophy reconstruction are the issues for me. Having said this I believe you will be very happy with the results. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry HCG / ARIMIDEX Hey there Phil / Guys This one is really aimed at Phil, as it relates to a comment made some weeks back. Phil, do you remember me mentioning some symptoms to you, one of which was cold penis etc and you said this was typical of high estradiol? Well, I remember the advice was the way forward would be either HCG or Arimidex. So that I have this very clearly in my mind at my next endo consultation, I just need to be sure - do these two drugs work the same way by reducing estradiol? I am really interested to start HCG as I feel it is a good way forward. Thanks guys ade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 Hi Phil and thanks for this info I see Dr Hisham Maksoud and to date he has been the most understanding person I have seen with these issues and has never refused any medication. I just like to know what I am talking about rather than going in blindly asking for a script. I remembered you told me either arimidex or HCG. I have to be honest that HCG does interest me very much. I would much prefer to try a HCG protocol and only if necessary try arimidex. I am on a lot of other meds anyway, which have nothing to do with TRT or hypo-g, so trying to keep these as low as possible seems to make some sense. Thanks again and I will keep you posted. So far my progress has been very good. ade From: philip georgian Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 2:56 PM Subject: Re: HCG / ARIMIDEX No Arimidex will lower your Estradiol levels and if you can't get this from your Dr. Indolplex/DIM is sold OTC and works good for most men. HCG acts like LH the message sent to your testis from your brain to tell them to make more Testosterone. When men go on Testosterone meds the brain sees this added T in the blood and slows down sending this LH message and the testis stop working. Here is a copy of a post to me from Dr. to get my Dr. to let me try HCG. ==================================================== He probably feels that since you suffer primary hypogonadism (I am guessing) there is no use in adding HCG to your protocol. There are several reasons why this is not so. First, you have not lost all Leydig cells, so any HCG you take will stimulate those who still function to produce endogenous testosterone. This will support testicular size. We should not ignore this aesthetic consideration. Next, if he reads my work, he will learn that HPTA-suppressed (as all TRT patients are to some extent) also suffer decreased pregenenolone levels, which is the first step after CHOL in all three hormonal pathways which begin with CHOL. HCG increases pregnenolone production, and therefore restores a more natural balance of our hormones. Next, nearly all TRT patients who add in HCG to their regimens report an increased sense of well-being and also libido. These are genuine quality of life issues. Finally, I just instinctively do not want all those LH receptors (including those we have yet to discover and appreciate) unstimulated. ==================================================== Going on HCG is how I found out I am not Primary but Seconday meaning my Pituitary is not working right. ==================================================== ALL ABOUT DIM. Sure here is a few links that are all about it. But there are a lot of Co.'s out there selling DIM that don't work well. Indolplex/DIM is the best it dose not get killed in your stomach when you take it. Diindolylmethane (DIM) is a stable indole found in cruciferous vegetables which promotes a beneficial estrogen metabolism in both women and men. http://www.dimfaq.com/index.htm in this link it's full of links about it. http://qualitycounts.com/fpdim.html http://www.jbc.org/content/278/23/21136.full If you have DIM in caps it's not Indolplex so to take this and to get it to work open the cap pore the DIM into a spoon add some Olive oil and take it this helps to keep it from getting killed in your stomach. The following is some links to where you can buy Indolplex/DIM. http://www.vitaglo.com/e5336.html http://www.vitacost.com/EnzymaticTherapyEstroBalancewithDIM/searchby-PN/searchte\ xt-dim http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0 http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0 http://www.estrobalance.net/ http://www.easyhealthzone.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=PP0108 & click=71 http://www.nbizz.com/longevityclinic/listings/213.html http://www.drugnatural.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD & Store_Code=DMOS & Product_\ Code=156497 http://www.smartbomb.com/itindo9.html?utm_source=mercent & utm_medium=shopcompare & \ utm_content=itindo9 & utm_campaign=mbsdb & mr:trackingCode=C6AEFBD1-E681-DE11-B7F3-0\ 019B9C043EB & mr:referralID=NA http://www.ritecare.com/cgi-bin/cart.pl?db=product_db.dat & category=natural+medic\ ine & method=any_words & search=iti-75336 http://www.naturamart.com/phytopharmica-pms-formula-with-indoplex-120-caps.html How to take Indolplex/DIM take one tablet 120 mgs at dinner time it can take 2 weeks to 2 months to get your Estradiol levels down it’s all about how high you are in your levels. What you need to do is get this down to about 20 pg/ml. When you get this low your night time and morning wood will come back so strong it will wake you up this means most of the time your at your best levels or what I call the sweet spot. Keep taking the DIM but if your wood stops your going down to low so just stop taking it. The day your wood comes back go back on the DIM but cut the tablet in half. If your Testosterone was tested and low but your not on TRT get it tested again you might find your levels came up some 200 to 300 points. http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174 ==================================================== How To Take Arimdex and not go down on your Estradiol to Low. What I found is if you go to low taking arimidex, it's the length of time your to low, if your too low say for 8 weeks it can take your body a longer time to make more Estradiol. Bottom line is to know how not to go to low. Keep a log on your dose and how you feel men going to low can't get it up taking Viagra. I went to low when I first tried Arimidex and did not know about going to low or how one feels to low, so I was low a good 8 weeks. I did not know I was low until my next labs. The best gage I have found to control your Estradiol levels is to gage your night time and morning wood. At good levels or what I call the sweet spot you get your night time and morning wood back so strong it will wake you up and you can hang a coat on it. Most men do good taking .25 mgs or 1/4 of a 1mg. pill, I use a pill cutter to cut the small pill in half then I stand it on the cut end and use a single edge razor to cut this in half. A good way to take arimidex is by how high your levels are. I tested over 90 pg/ml so we tried doing .5 mgs every other day after 8 weeks my next set of labs showed it did not move below 90, test said >90. So we did .5 mgs. every day in about 2 weeks I got some strong night time and morning wood back after not having them for many yrs. I kept doing this dose and in 8 weeks my next set of labs said <20 back in the day labs were like this they did not have to good labs we have today they could not read lower the 20. My Dr. told me this looks to low to stop taking the Arimidex. The one thing I noticed was my wood stopped and stopping the Arimidex my wood came back in about 7 weeks my next test at 8 weeks was 24 pg/ml. So we went back on the Arimidex but the Dr. told me to take .5 mgs every 3 days I was on this dose not a week and lost wood. This is when I figured out going to low you lose wood. And the longer your too low the longer it takes to get levels back up. I stopped the arimidex right away and got my wood back in 4 days. I then after playing with the dose for a time found the best dose is .25mgs every 2 to 3 days. So lets say your labs are less the 50 pg/ml if your take .5 mgs you can go down so dam fast your miss the sweet spot of your wood and go to low. It's best with lower levels 50 and under to do less Arimidex .25mgs every 2 days if later your lose wood when it comes back go to every 3 days. I have found estradiol is the hardest hormone to control, it goes up or down from month to month some times I need .25mgs every 2 days other times I need ..25mgs everyday most of the time I do well on every 3 days. So between wood and labs I do great and so do most of the men I have told this to. I keep a log on how much I am taking and how I feel. Doing this and reading back in my log I was able to tell when I was going to high or to low my Dr. lets me dose my arimidex by how I feel. Over the yrs. I have posted this story until I am blue in the face. Co-Moderator Phil > From: Ade Rowley <spadeboy@...> > Subject: HCG / ARIMIDEX > " Hypogonadism2 " < > > Date: Thursday, March 18, 2010, 9:03 AM > Hey there Phil / Guys > > This one is really aimed at Phil, as it relates to a > comment made some weeks back. > > Phil, do you remember me mentioning some symptoms to you, > one of which was cold penis etc and you said this was > typical of high estradiol? Well, I remember the advice > was the way forward would be either HCG or Arimidex. > So that I have this very clearly in my mind at my next endo > consultation, I just need to be sure - do these two drugs > work the same way by reducing estradiol? > > I am really interested to start HCG as I feel it is a good > way forward. > > Thanks guys > > ade > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 Hey - how you doin? Great to hear from you my man I really do think that Dr Maksoud will be very understanding re the HCG, so no problem there. Unfortunately men in the UK are not quite so fortunate where Cialis (or any other ED drugs are concerned). Thus the law states they can be prescribed on the NHS only for those who fit a very, very stringent criteria. If this was the case, then I could get them on my pre-payment card - no issues. However, I do not fit a single criterion and as a result I would have to pay for these on a private prescription. At the lowest possible dose this would cost me somewhere in the region of £110 per month, so for now I will go purely with HCG. I would then like to discuss Arimidex if the issues persist. Its great to know you are doing well mate. Keep up the good work. ade From: alexanderjones49@... Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 3:40 PM Subject: Re: HCG / ARIMIDEX Ade, Also mentioned was cialis daily 5mg. I use all three. HCG was the initial notice in the reduction of cold penis and scrotum and the cialis continues to be the consistency. Vascular circulation and atrophy reconstruction are the issues for me. Having said this I believe you will be very happy with the results. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry HCG / ARIMIDEX Hey there Phil / Guys This one is really aimed at Phil, as it relates to a comment made some weeks back. Phil, do you remember me mentioning some symptoms to you, one of which was cold penis etc and you said this was typical of high estradiol? Well, I remember the advice was the way forward would be either HCG or Arimidex. So that I have this very clearly in my mind at my next endo consultation, I just need to be sure - do these two drugs work the same way by reducing estradiol? I am really interested to start HCG as I feel it is a good way forward. Thanks guys ade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 Great you can try HCG only do 100 IU's shot everyday. See how you feel I did this and had good levels but did not feel as good as doing both Test C and HCG. Most of Dr. 's men do both I get a feeling of well being after my HCG shot. I have been reading the HCG diet forums and a lot of people on the HCG diet get this feeling. But I do get higher levels of Estradiol doing this and feel it's a small price to pay to have to take Arimidex to keep my Estradiol down and feel this good. Co-Moderator Phil > > > From: Ade Rowley <spadeboy@...> > > Subject: HCG / ARIMIDEX > > " Hypogonadism2 " < > > > Date: Thursday, March 18, 2010, 9:03 AM > > Hey there Phil / Guys > > > > This one is really aimed at Phil, as it relates to a > > comment made some weeks back. > > > > Phil, do you remember me mentioning some symptoms to > you, > > one of which was cold penis etc and you said this was > > typical of high estradiol? Well, I remember the > advice > > was the way forward would be either HCG or Arimidex. > > So that I have this very clearly in my mind at my next > endo > > consultation, I just need to be sure - do these two > drugs > > work the same way by reducing estradiol? > > > > I am really interested to start HCG as I feel it is a > good > > way forward. > > > > Thanks guys > > > > ade > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 Thanks so much for this, Phil. Funny enough, 100 iu's everyday is what I had in mind, just to begin. I will keep a diary on it and monitor my progress and then if I need Arimidex, then so be it. As always, I will post my progress to the group. It does feel like it has taken a while to get there, but it is happening slowly. be cool ade From: philip georgian Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 6:02 PM Subject: Re: HCG / ARIMIDEX Great you can try HCG only do 100 IU's shot everyday. See how you feel I did this and had good levels but did not feel as good as doing both Test C and HCG. Most of Dr. 's men do both I get a feeling of well being after my HCG shot. I have been reading the HCG diet forums and a lot of people on the HCG diet get this feeling. But I do get higher levels of Estradiol doing this and feel it's a small price to pay to have to take Arimidex to keep my Estradiol down and feel this good. Co-Moderator Phil > > > From: Ade Rowley <spadeboy@...> > > Subject: HCG / ARIMIDEX > > " Hypogonadism2 " < > > > Date: Thursday, March 18, 2010, 9:03 AM > > Hey there Phil / Guys > > > > This one is really aimed at Phil, as it relates to a > > comment made some weeks back. > > > > Phil, do you remember me mentioning some symptoms to > you, > > one of which was cold penis etc and you said this was > > typical of high estradiol? Well, I remember the > advice > > was the way forward would be either HCG or Arimidex. > > So that I have this very clearly in my mind at my next > endo > > consultation, I just need to be sure - do these two > drugs > > work the same way by reducing estradiol? > > > > I am really interested to start HCG as I feel it is a > good > > way forward. > > > > Thanks guys > > > > ade > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 Great do keep a diary on how your feeling this way you can read it back and see how your doing. For some it is slow and hard to see so reading back you can see it. Co-Moderator Phil > > > > > From: Ade Rowley <spadeboy@...> > > > Subject: HCG / ARIMIDEX > > > " Hypogonadism2 " < > > > > Date: Thursday, March 18, 2010, 9:03 AM > > > Hey there Phil / Guys > > > > > > This one is really aimed at Phil, as it relates > to a > > > comment made some weeks back. > > > > > > Phil, do you remember me mentioning some symptoms > to > > you, > > > one of which was cold penis etc and you said this > was > > > typical of high estradiol? Well, I remember > the > > advice > > > was the way forward would be either HCG or > Arimidex. > > > So that I have this very clearly in my mind at my > next > > endo > > > consultation, I just need to be sure - do these > two > > drugs > > > work the same way by reducing estradiol? > > > > > > I am really interested to start HCG as I feel it > is a > > good > > > way forward. > > > > > > Thanks guys > > > > > > ade > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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