TRT: Injections vs gels

July 19, 2010

I'm sure this has been discussed numerous times but does anyone have info on

pros and cons between the two.

July 20, 2010

I was on the gel for 60 days and my level did not raise at all. Applied it

every morning too. I didn't like the smell or having to sleep in a t-shirt to

keep it off my wife at night. I just started the weekly shots and they are

convenient. I wouldn't go back.

>

> I'm sure this has been discussed numerous times but does anyone have info on

pros and cons between the two.

>

July 21, 2010

I have never used the gel, after hearing about not getting it on your wife of

kids, I decided to go with the injections. I have been taking the injections

since the end of April and after 2 shots (200mg ea time) in 4 weeks my T level

went from 281 to 469. After 2 more shots (4wks) my T level dropped to 269 and

the Urologist didnt know why so they decided to go up to 400mg every two weeks

and to send me to an Endo. My test came back fine they said but didnt tell me

what my level was, and wanted me to start giving myself shots of 200mg every 10

days. I have only had 2 so far and I still feel the same, tired!

July 21, 2010

Hi and Welcome,

Your Dr.'s are not up on doing TRT doing big dam shots every 2 to 4 weeks is old

and does not work. Youâ€™re the kind if man that eats up the T as fast as you

shoot it. Doing them big shots your going to peak in about 3 days at very high

levels like over 1500 then fall very low by the next shot on every 2 weeks.

Endo's and Uro's are not good Dr. for low testosterone you need to do your shots

80 mgs every 3 days and add in some HCG 250 IU's the day before you T shot so

this would be every 3 days also doing this will keep your testis working.

Men feel like crap falling from a high levels of 1500 to 269 by the next shot

it's the levels falling this low that make us feel sick.

Your on a roller coaster ride up after the shot and very low by the next one.

This is what they did 20 yrs ago and if one reads the insert that comes with the

Test C shot it will say to do shots like this every 2 weeks you can't go by that

it was tested this way and it would cost them lot of money to redo the testing

to change this info.

Also your doing them big shots most of it is converting into Estradiol this will

get so high that it takes away any good the Testosterone shots are doing. So

test this do a Quest labs test #4021 the range is 13 to 54 pg/ml your best level

would be at about 20. One way to tell if your levels are to high is by the loss

of night time and morning wood if you don't have them you might be very high.

Going on shots every 3 days helps keep Estradiol levels down.

But if your high over 30 you going to need Arimidex to get this down. Take .25

mgs or 1/4 of a pill every other day. If your levels are over 50 pg/ml then you

need to take .5 mgs every other day you can tell when your levels are down again

by the night time and morning wood coming back.

I use a small 27g 1ml x 1/2 " lg needle to do my shots into my thigh. This I

have been doing for over 7 yrs and I have no pain and dam good levels.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Pryor <j.pryor@...>

> Subject: Re: TRT: Injections vs gels

> " ' ' " < >

> Date: Wednesday, July 21, 2010, 9:33 AM

> I have never used the gel, after

> hearing about not getting it on your wife of kids, I decided

> to go with the injections. I have been taking the injections

> since the end of April and after 2 shots (200mg ea time) in

> 4 weeks my T level went from 281 to 469. After 2 more shots

> (4wks) my T level dropped to 269 and the Urologist didnt

> know why so they decided to go up to 400mg every two weeks

> and to send me to an Endo. My test came back fine they said

> but didnt tell me what my level was, and wanted me to start

> giving myself shots of 200mg every 10 days. I have only had

> 2 so far and I still feel the same, tired!

>

July 21, 2010

Hi geraldshean and welcome,

Most men do well on gels I use to shower before going to bed so my wife was

safe. I switched to shots because my levels would not get up high enough and

the gels did not support my joints and muscles. On the gels I was in a lot of

pain and house bound we did not know the pain was from using gels until I

switched to shots and my pain started going away.

One thing you need to keep your eye on being on TRT is your Estradiol levels if

they go to high you feel like crap and lose your sex life.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: geraldshean <geraldshean@...>

> Subject: Re: TRT: Injections vs gels

>

> Date: Tuesday, July 20, 2010, 5:43 PM

> I was on the gel for 60 days and my

> level did not raise at all. Applied it every morning

> too. I didn't like the smell or having to sleep in a

> t-shirt to keep it off my wife at night. I just

> started the weekly shots and they are convenient. I

> wouldn't go back.

>

> >

> > I'm sure this has been discussed numerous times but

> does anyone have info on pros and cons between the two.

> >

>

> ------------------------------------

>

July 21, 2010

I just found this site yesterday, and I was diagnosed in Dec 2009 started shots

in April. If my Dr's are not up on this (which I have been wondering) then who

do I need to see to get on with a good treatment, or is this stuff I can get on

my own?

FYI. A little back ground.

In Jan 2000 I started an exercise program and diet called Body's for life. It

was great, I lost 35 lbs in 12 weeks and was in the best shape of my life. I

kept this up for 7 years. Plus, every year since I was 21, I go in for a

physical. At 34, my cholesterol was 201 and every year it went down, now it's

134! The diet really works. I also started donating blood to Blood Care,

after several year they wanted me to start doing double red donations, which is,

taking a pint, processing thru a machine and putting the plasma and other stuff

back in, then doing the process again, so they end up with one pt of whole

blood. You can only do this 3 times a yr, and after almost 2 yrs of this, I

started feeling really tire and when I had my physical in 2007, they told me I

hardly had any iron, and asked if I had donated any blood. They wanted me to do

Iron Therapy, which would take 3 sessions, and each one would last about an hour

and forty-five min. I went in for the 1st session and they put in an IV that had

a large suringe on the other end, and every 15 min they would push the iron in,

and every time they did this, I would taste the iron and my testicles would

burn, and when I said something, they told me that it was normal.

Jun 2008, I went for my usual yearly physical, I told the Dr that I still wasn't

feeling 100%. My test came back with normal levels of iron and he said that

sometimes it just takes some time for you to get back to normal. Sex was ok, but

looking back now it wasn't 100% either.

Apr 2009, I noticed a weak urine flow/erections, and pain in right testicle, so

I maid a Dr appointment, and he checked my prostate, and said I had a prostate

infection and proscribed Cypero. After two weeks - better urine flow, pain in

right testicle after ejaculation and pain at base of penis. Dr changed to

Doxycycline HYC. After 2 more weeks, urine flow and erections were better but

not 100%, but still having some pain in base of penis, and after 2 more weeks

still not feeling better and the Dr said go and see a Urologist.

Jun 2009, Went to see the Urologist, I was having pain in penis during

intercourse, pain in groin, and pain in right testicle after ejaculation. I was

told to still take Doxycycline HYC, that some times it takes awhile to treat the

prostate infection because it is a dense organ.

Jul 2009, Still having week urine flow/erection, told to continue

Doxycycline.....

Sept 2009, Finished all prescriptions, and no pain, but still not full urine

stream and weak erections. now prescribed Cialis. After only taking one pill...

I had about 2o erection that day, so the next day I took it after I got home

from work, still had a lot of erections the next day. So now I had a strong

erection, but I had very little feeling during ejaculation and sex drive wasn't

very strong.

Oct 2009, follow up with Dr, still having some what of a weak urine stream and

still very little feeling during ejaculation, but the actual intercourse was a

lot better. The Dr sent me for a Cat Scan and everything came back normal???

Dec 2009, They took blood and everything came back normal except that I had Low

Testosterone, so the Dr suggested that I start Testosterone Therapy every two

wks for life. I flipped out just a little bit! They also told me that because I

had the mumps as a child that the virus killed one of the testies, now the other

one is not working properly.

Jan 2010, I went back to my reg Dr, and he said that I was to young to do

Testosterone Therapy, without trying some other things 1st and I agreed. He

prescribed me Arimidex, because the blood work he did also showed that my

estrogen had increase. This med would lower my estrogen which could make my body

increase my testosterone naturally. But after two weeks, I started feeling upset

all the time, I wanted to cry, having mood swings and when I had a hot flash

that lasted about 25 min, and I lost almost all sensitivity in my penis, I

decided to do the Testosterone Therapy because this sucked big time!

Mar 2010, My foot started hurting, so I went to the Dr for that and was told I

had a stress fracture. I was put in a boot and sent to have a bone scan to see

how bad it was, only to find out that it wasn't fractured only sprained. Still

feeling bad pain in right testicle, pain in groin, little or no feeling during

ejaculation.

Apr 2010, Wanted to start Testosterone Therapy, and had another prostate exam,

which showed I had another prostate infection, so I started on Doxycycline again

and had to wait 2 weeks to start therapy. Now urine flow/erections better, but

still taking Cialis. Still having little feeling with ejaculation. April 20th I

get my 1st injection of 200 mg, and in a couple of hrs my energy level feels a

little bit better.

May 2010, I get my 2nd injection, and I am getting a little more feeling during

intercourse and ejaculation, energy level up a little more. Still taking

Doxycycline for prostate infection, still taking Cialis. My testosterone is now

469 2 wks later, I get my 3rd injection and have blood work taken. I take my

wife out dancing and my hand get a pain and after the weekend it still is in

pain. So I make an appointment with the dr and 1st they think its broken, but

the x-ray shows nothing, and they wrap it up. I am still having a weak urine

stream and they tell me that testosterone injections can cause the prostate to

grow or have inflammation, so they prescribe Uroxatral for the immediate relief

of urine flow, and Avodart to shrink the prostate in about 6 months, then I wont

need to the Uroxatral.

Jun 2010, I get my 4th injection and have blood work and in 2 wks I'm told that

my testosterone has dropped to 269, I also ask about my foot being hurt and now

my hand. They think that because I took Cypero last year and it can damage your

ligaments. So my next injection they give me 400mg, and about 7 days I have a

hot flash that makes the 1st one seem like a cool spring day. This one last

about 40 min and as soon as it stops I call the Dr and they said that is show

that my body is taking to long to process the testosterone and suggest that I

see an Endocrinologist. I make an appointment and they do blood work.

July 2010, My knee and back get hurt doing some chores around the house. My

results come back from the Endocrinologist and everything seems fine, and my

testosterone seem normal, but they understand that I got a 400mg shot the last

time. They think that I need to have shots every 10 days at 200mg each time and

show me how to do it myself. I am getting ready to give myself the next shot in

a couple of days. I am still feeling bad, the Urexatral seems to be working and

I don't have to get up during the night to pee. I finished all my Cialis and

don't want to buy anymore because its $157 month, and so far its been 4 days and

I have been able to get an erection, have intercourse and ejaculate with out it.

I am feeling more sensation in my penis but ejaculation still isn't what is use

to be. My mood swings are still all over the place. I have put a call into the

nurse and told her is and that I am depressed. Cant believe that this is still

going on. Not to mention I have gained about 40lbs and weigh more that I

July 21, 2010

you need to keep your Testosterone levels up into the upper 1/3 of your

labs range and you need to keep your Estradiol levels down to about 20 pg/ml

that is about it. Unless you have Thyroid, low Cortisol and Iron levels. I had

one bladder infection after the other for BPH even had surgery on my prostate I

call it a ream job. Later on I found out it was my High Estradiol levels that

did this to my prostate. Getting this down and keeping it down my voiding is

not normal and my prostate when back down in size.

If you do labs for Iron on Iron pills your labs are going to look good you need

to stop taking Iron pills 5 days before doing labs.

If you go on Armidex to get Estradiol levels down not on TRT as your

Testosterone levels come back up your going to feel off until your body adjusts

to the new levels.

I have a Pituitary Problem due to a head injury but my TRT is about the same as

any man's. I do 80 mgs shots of Test C every 3 days to keep me leveled because

I eat up the T as fast as I take it and can't keep good levels doing shots every

week. I also do HCG the day before this shot. Doing this keeps me leveled

holds down my Estradiol and helps keep my blood thinner. Try this it might work

for you I use a small 27g 1ml x 1/2 " needle and shoot into my thigh. You might

find you can keep your Estradiol levels down on very little Arimidex doing this.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Pryor <j.pryor@...>

> Subject: RE: Re: TRT: Injections vs gels

> " ' ' " < >

> Date: Wednesday, July 21, 2010, 11:14 AM

> I just found this site yesterday, and

> I was diagnosed in Dec 2009 started shots in April. If my

> Dr's are not up on this (which I have been wondering) then

> who do I need to see to get on with a good treatment, or is

> this stuff I can get on my own?

>

> FYI. A little back ground.

>

> In Jan 2000 I started an exercise program and diet called

> Body's for life. It was great, I lost 35 lbs in 12 weeks and

> was in the best shape of my life. I kept this up for 7

> years. Plus, every year since I was 21, I go in for a

> physical. At 34, my cholesterol was 201 and every year it

> went down, now it's 134! The diet really works. I also

> started donating blood to Blood Care, after several

> year they wanted me to start doing double red donations,

> which is, taking a pint, processing thru a machine and

> putting the plasma and other stuff back in, then doing the

> process again, so they end up with one pt of whole blood.

> You can only do this 3 times a yr, and after almost 2 yrs of

> this, I started feeling really tire and when I had my

> physical in 2007, they told me I hardly had any iron, and

> asked if I had donated any blood. They wanted me to do Iron

> Therapy, which would take 3 sessions, and each one would

> last about an hour and forty-five min. I went in for the 1st

> session and they put in an IV that had a large suringe on

> the other end, and every 15 min they would push the iron in,

> and every time they did this, I would taste the iron and my

> testicles would burn, and when I said something, they told

> me that it was normal.

>

> Jun 2008, I went for my usual yearly physical, I told the

> Dr that I still wasn't feeling 100%. My test came back with

> normal levels of iron and he said that sometimes it just

> takes some time for you to get back to normal. Sex was ok,

> but looking back now it wasn't 100% either.

>

> Apr 2009, I noticed a weak urine flow/erections, and pain

> in right testicle, so I maid a Dr appointment, and he

> checked my prostate, and said I had a prostate infection and

> proscribed Cypero. After two weeks - better urine flow, pain

> in right testicle after ejaculation and pain at base of

> penis. Dr changed to Doxycycline HYC. After 2 more weeks,

> urine flow and erections were better but not 100%, but still

> having some pain in base of penis, and after 2 more weeks

> still not feeling better and the Dr said go and see a

> Urologist.

>

> Jun 2009, Went to see the Urologist, I was having pain in

> penis during intercourse, pain in groin, and pain in right

> testicle after ejaculation. I was told to still take

> Doxycycline HYC, that some times it takes awhile to treat

> the prostate infection because it is a dense organ.

>

> Jul 2009, Still having week urine flow/erection, told to

> continue Doxycycline.....

>

> Sept 2009, Finished all prescriptions, and no pain, but

> still not full urine stream and weak erections. now

> prescribed Cialis. After only taking one pill... I had about

> 2o erection that day, so the next day I took it after I got

> home from work, still had a lot of erections the next day.

> So now I had a strong erection, but I had very little

> feeling during ejaculation and sex drive wasn't very

> strong.

>

> Oct 2009, follow up with Dr, still having some what of a

> weak urine stream and still very little feeling during

> ejaculation, but the actual intercourse was a lot better.

> The Dr sent me for a Cat Scan and everything came back

> normal???

>

> Dec 2009, They took blood and everything came back normal

> except that I had Low Testosterone, so the Dr suggested that

> I start Testosterone Therapy every two wks for life. I

> flipped out just a little bit! They also told me that

> because I had the mumps as a child that the virus killed one

> of the testies, now the other one is not working properly.

>

> Jan 2010, I went back to my reg Dr, and he said that I was

> to young to do Testosterone Therapy, without trying some

> other things 1st and I agreed. He prescribed me Arimidex,

> because the blood work he did also showed that my estrogen

> had increase. This med would lower my estrogen which could

> make my body increase my testosterone naturally. But after

> two weeks, I started feeling upset all the time, I wanted to

> cry, having mood swings and when I had a hot flash that

> lasted about 25 min, and I lost almost all sensitivity in my

> penis, I decided to do the Testosterone Therapy because this

> sucked big time!

>

> Mar 2010, My foot started hurting, so I went to the Dr for

> that and was told I had a stress fracture. I was put in a

> boot and sent to have a bone scan to see how bad it was,

> only to find out that it wasn't fractured only sprained.

> Still feeling bad pain in right testicle, pain in groin,

> little or no feeling during ejaculation.

>

> Apr 2010, Wanted to start Testosterone Therapy, and had

> another prostate exam, which showed I had another prostate

> infection, so I started on Doxycycline again and had to wait

> 2 weeks to start therapy. Now urine flow/erections better,

> but still taking Cialis. Still having little feeling with

> ejaculation. April 20th I get my 1st injection of 200 mg,

> and in a couple of hrs my energy level feels a little bit

> better.

>

> May 2010, I get my 2nd injection, and I am getting a little

> more feeling during intercourse and ejaculation, energy

> level up a little more. Still taking Doxycycline for

> prostate infection, still taking Cialis. My testosterone is

> now 469 2 wks later, I get my 3rd injection and have blood

> work taken. I take my wife out dancing and my hand get a

> pain and after the weekend it still is in pain. So I make an

> appointment with the dr and 1st they think its broken, but

> the x-ray shows nothing, and they wrap it up. I am still

> having a weak urine stream and they tell me that

> testosterone injections can cause the prostate to grow or

> have inflammation, so they prescribe Uroxatral for the

> immediate relief of urine flow, and Avodart to shrink the

> prostate in about 6 months, then I wont need to the

> Uroxatral.

>

> Jun 2010, I get my 4th injection and have blood work and in

> 2 wks I'm told that my testosterone has dropped to 269, I

> also ask about my foot being hurt and now my hand. They

> think that because I took Cypero last year and it can damage

> your ligaments. So my next injection they give me 400mg, and

> about 7 days I have a hot flash that makes the 1st one seem

> like a cool spring day. This one last about 40 min and as

> soon as it stops I call the Dr and they said that is show

> that my body is taking to long to process the testosterone

> and suggest that I see an Endocrinologist. I make an

> appointment and they do blood work.

>

> July 2010, My knee and back get hurt doing some chores

> around the house. My results come back from the

> Endocrinologist and everything seems fine, and my

> testosterone seem normal, but they understand that I got a

> 400mg shot the last time. They think that I need to have

> shots every 10 days at 200mg each time and show me how to do

> it myself. I am getting ready to give myself the next shot

> in a couple of days. I am still feeling bad, the Urexatral

> seems to be working and I don't have to get up during the

> night to pee. I finished all my Cialis and don't want to buy

> anymore because its $157 month, and so far its been 4 days

> and I have been able to get an erection, have intercourse

> and ejaculate with out it. I am feeling more sensation in my

> penis but ejaculation still isn't what is use to be. My mood

> swings are still all over the place. I have put a call into

> the nurse and told her is and that I am depressed. Cant

> believe that this is still going on. Not to mention I have

> gained about 40lbs and weigh more that I

>

July 21, 2010

I don't know if you're interested in what happened, but here's my take on it.

Thyroid needs adequate iron/ferritin to function properly, and your multiple

blood donations took your levels too low, probably making you hypothyroid with

high rT3. They talked my husband into one double RBC donation since he's a rare

B-. He laid in his recliner fatigued the entire rest of the weekend and has not

donated again since last 4th of July. He will not donate again till I see his

ferritin levels. Optimal is between 70-90, and after the donation he tested at

27, three months after the blood draw. My ferritin also went too low from a

donation in March and again in July. I believe the blood centers' guidelines on

donating are a conflict of interest to our health.

There is a genetic disease called hereditary hemochromatosis, which causes

excess iron loading and uncaught, will cause all your endocrine organs to

atrophy and become non-functional. This includes your pituitary, thyroid,

adrenals, testes, and others. Excess iron is toxic to the human body, and it's

possible when they infused you, they did a little too much, especially since you

reported burning. Pain at any time, is not normal.

Cipro does have a history of bad side effects, but muscular and joint pain can

also be caused by other low hormones like thyroid, cortisol, and testosterone.

Weight gain also points to low thyroid. You didn't mention if you'd been tested

for all the other hormones. I would ask for Free T3, Total T3, Free T4, Total

T4, TSH, reverse T3, morning cortisol, and ferritin for starters. You would

want your free and total numbers to be halfway or higher in the range, and your

reverse T3 to be less than half the range.

Barb

>

> I just found this site yesterday, and I was diagnosed in Dec 2009 started

shots in April. If my Dr's are not up on this (which I have been wondering) then

who do I need to see to get on with a good treatment, or is this stuff I can get

on my own?

>

> FYI. A little back ground.

>

> In Jan 2000 I started an exercise program and diet called Body's for life. It