Guest guest Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 You might need to stop your B-12 a week before testing it when I was using my B-12 supplements before labs the labs were over the top of the range. Not a true reading. The rest of my B's I take everyday but not the morning of labs I fast and only take HC meds and pain pills before labs in the morning. I am on a lot of supplements all approved by my Dr.'s. ================================================== Supplements • TMG 750mg 1pm and 11pm 2 pills a day. • Solary Super Bio C 2 x’s/day 1000 mgs. Total. • l-Arginine and l-Orthinine 100 Capsules, 750 mg, Twinlab 1 at bedtime. • NOW brand ZMA 800mgs 3 at bedtime. • Copper 2mgs 1 at noon. • Dr. Cranton's PrimeNutrients 3/day. • Biotics Bio-D-Mulsion Forte Vit. D 2000 IU's per drop I am doing 10 drops a day. • Iodoral Iodine 1 tab / day 12.5 mgs. • I went with NOW brand for the following supplements do to a high levels on a Homocysteine Cardiovascular and below normal level of Folate RBC labs. • NAC N-Acetyl Cysteine, Selenium, Molybdenum - 600 mg. • B-12 (Brain) Methylcobalamin - 5000 mcg lozenges. 3x’s/week. • Coenzyme B Complex. • P-5-P (Coenzyme B6) 50 mg. • I am taking 800 mcg. Folacal for low Folate RBC. • BioCitrate Selenium - 200 mcg 1x’s / day morning. • Ubiquinol Capliques Featuring Kaneka's Qh (400mgs) 3x’s/day mercola.com. • Lecithin 1200 mgs 3 caps 2x’s/day. • Acetyl-L Carnitine 500 mg 3x’s/day. • Alpha Lipoic Acid 250 mg/day. • Life Extension, PQQ Caps with Bio PQQ, 10 mg, 2x’s /day. • Krill Oil capliques 1,000 mgs. 2 with food morning mercola.com. Co-Moderator Phil > From: gcaussieman <gcaussieman@...> > Subject: B 12 & Folate > > Date: Thursday, January 27, 2011, 8:47 PM > Does one have to cease Basic B > complex prior to having blood tests done and if so how long > before? > If one has a high end B 12 does this mean there is no real > need to have an MMA test performed. > Also does the same apply to testing other vitamins eg C, D, > E, A etc > Thank you > Kind regards > Wayne > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 Well, if I tested various RBC or serum mineral and vitamin levels and got some results back that were in the middle of the range and had still taken them, like the day before, I'd be confused. I'd wonder if my levels would have been lower had I stopped supplementing at least a day or two in advance. Did I mask a deficiency or am I really just fine? " ADEK " vitamins are fat-soluble. I hear their levels are more stable, but a few days off before testing wouldn't hurt if you're concerned about deficiency. An in-range or even high serum B12 level does NOT rule out a B12 deficiency. The ranges commonly used allow for ones with obvious B12 deficiency symptoms to still be " normal " . Especially for those at the bottom of the range, they can be given B12 or just decide to take B12 anyway and have their deficiency symptoms disappear. Hmm and they weren't deficient according to the B12 test, right?! Obviously there's a problem with the current lab ranges for this to happen. There's also the possibility of poor B12 transport where the serum level is fine or possibly even high, but the body's not using all of it due to low transcobalamin II. I found a study on that here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14689755?ordinalpos=1 & itool=EntrezSystem2.PEn\ trez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_SingleItemSupl.Pubmed_Discovery_RA & linkpo\ s=1 & log$=relatedarticles & logdbfrom=pubmed So some test urine MMA as that seems to be a more accurate marker for B12 deficiency, although it's not perfect. This is also a good idea for those already taking some form of B12 as the serum level easily goes up even with B12 supplements (especially sublinguals). Another marker is high homocysteine. High homocysteine is also caused by low folate and B6, but it still can expose low B12. Although some do best with shots, many do well with B12 supplements. Sublinguals are a good idea and many Aussies use iHerb.com, Wayne. I'm not sure if you'd find methylcobalamin locally, which is an active form (cyanocobalamin is inactive till the body removes the cyanide attached to it). -Nigel On 27 January 2011 19:47, gcaussieman <gcaussieman@...> wrote: > > > Does one have to cease Basic B complex prior to having blood tests done and > if so how long before? > If one has a high end B 12 does this mean there is no real need to have an > MMA test performed. > Also does the same apply to testing other vitamins eg C, D, E, A etc > Thank you > Kind regards > Wayne > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 Thanks Nigel you are a fountain of useful information. I see it as a bit of a dilemma. If I stop all vitamin supps 1 to 7 days prior to testing then the results could be viewed a couple of ways. 1. Results say are mid range does this mean that maybe I need to increase my dose to gain and maintain an optimal result or 2. Does it mean that my levels were probably optimal but they have naturally dropped back due to stopping the supps. In this case I should just continue on with my normal supplementation dose (ie no increase) as this will keep my levels at their optimal levels all the time I am supplementing. The argument I have been having with myself is if I continue to supplement up to the testing at least I will know absolutely without equivocation what my actual levels are when I an supplementing and then common sense dictates that if I stop or adjust the dose at anytime I know what will naturally happen to my established levels. Does this make sense to you? I also have the same conundrum with iron studies. I have ceased iron supps 5 to 8 days prior because that seems to be the accepted protocol but I wonder? With respect to B 12 and folate I take Thorne Basic B Complex 1 to 2 per day. Ingredients One Capsule Contains: Thiamin (as Thiamin HCl) 40 mg. Riboflavin (as Riboflavin 5'-Phosphate) 11 mg. Niacin (130 mg as Niacinamide and 10 mg as Niacin) 140 mg. Vitamin B6 (as Pyridoxal 5'-Phosphate) 10 mg. Folate (200 mcg as Calcium Folinate and 200 mcg as 5-Methyltetrahydrofolate) 400 mcg. Vitamin B12 (200 mcg as Adenosylcobalamin and 200 mcg as Methylcobalamin) 400 mcg. Biotin 400 mcg. Pantothenic Acid (as Calcium Pantothenate) 100 mg. Choline Citrate 80 mg. Other Ingredients: Hypromellose (derived from cellulose) capsule, MagnesiumCitratete, Silicon Dioxide. I was previously taking Longevity Plus Beyond B 12 sublingual Methylcobalamin 2000mcg x 1 per day. Vitamin B-12 (methylcobalamin/B-12 complex) 2,000 mcg 33% NSE Methylators providing: 30 mg * Folic Acid 200 mcg 50% Biotin 25 mcg 8% Vitamin B-6 4 mg 200% These Beyond B 12 tabs worked very well and doubled my B 12 levels to 900 so just over the top of the range in about 6 weeks. The strange thing was that over the same period my red cell folate actually halved from a high 2343 to 1113, range (545 - 3370). Also my homocysteine came down from 8.1 to 6.7 range (0.00 to 15.0). I understand that this is a good result. I have previously (Nov 07) had a serum Methylmalonate test which was comfortably below the top of the range 0.15 (<0.5) so not elevated. So from this and in the absence of any identiiable symptoms I think my body is probably able to convert and utilise this B 12 but am not sure about the folate result. Would you agreee? Thanks for the interesting link re transcobalamin. From memory I think I have also had a UMMA but can't locate the results at the moment but I seem to remember that it was ok. Yes you are absolutely correct about the availability of methylcobalamin here in Australia but no problem through iherb. Kind regards Wayne > > > > > > > Does one have to cease Basic B complex prior to having blood tests done and > > if so how long before? > > If one has a high end B 12 does this mean there is no real need to have an > > MMA test performed. > > Also does the same apply to testing other vitamins eg C, D, E, A etc > > Thank you > > Kind regards > > Wayne > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 It's possible you're folate deficient still. Both are important and you can't use folate properly without B12 and B12 relies on there being enough folate for one of its conversion steps. I remember reading somewhere that B12 depletes folate and I know of two people that say the same thing on thyroid forums. I never found out HOW, but I've heard that. Perhaps your RBC folate went down due to raising the B12. My experience concurs with that idea. If I don't keep up with additional folate supplements I'll get nerve damage that can occur even if I'm frequently taking methyl B12 shots. I get patches of skin that burn like fire if lightly touched. It takes about a day or two for it to go away whether I take more B12 shots or not. I can prevent this from happening if I take a few milligrams of folate daily. When I've slacked off and the burning appears again I can take about 30 milligrams of folic acid and reverse the damage faster. Last time I did this the burning reduced significantly in a few hours and then totally resolved within about a day. Anyway, there isn't much folate in B complexes, even if they use the better forms. If your gut can't absorb it well then you'll definitely need extra. Some take Source Naturals MegaFolinic for extra folate. Folinic acid is stronger per microgram than folic acid. Here's some good reading on folate: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:HHxxDLXA2cwJ:www.thehealthi\ erlife.co.uk/natural-remedies/vitamins/folic-acid-health%2520benefits-00424.html The real site has terrible pop ups that you can't get rid of, so I posted Google's cache. Perhaps you don't need further B12 testing. I don't see the harm in continuing to take some sublingual B12 regularly to make sure your levels stay high. -Nigel On 29 January 2011 18:14, gcaussieman <gcaussieman@...> wrote: > > > Thanks Nigel you are a fountain of useful information. > > I see it as a bit of a dilemma. If I stop all vitamin supps 1 to 7 days > prior to testing then the results could be viewed a couple of ways. > 1. Results say are mid range does this mean that maybe I need to increase > my dose to gain and maintain an optimal result or > > 2. Does it mean that my levels were probably optimal but they have > naturally dropped back due to stopping the supps. In this case I should just > continue on with my normal supplementation dose (ie no increase) as this > will keep my levels at their optimal levels all the time I am supplementing. > > The argument I have been having with myself is if I continue to supplement > up to the testing at least I will know absolutely without equivocation what > my actual levels are when I an supplementing and then common sense dictates > that if I stop or adjust the dose at anytime I know what will naturally > happen to my established levels. Does this make sense to you? > I also have the same conundrum with iron studies. I have ceased iron supps > 5 to 8 days prior because that seems to be the accepted protocol but I > wonder? > > With respect to B 12 and folate I take Thorne Basic B Complex 1 to 2 per > day. > > Ingredients > One Capsule Contains: > Thiamin (as Thiamin HCl) 40 mg. > Riboflavin (as Riboflavin 5'-Phosphate) 11 mg. > Niacin (130 mg as Niacinamide and 10 mg as Niacin) 140 mg. > Vitamin B6 (as Pyridoxal 5'-Phosphate) 10 mg. > Folate (200 mcg as Calcium Folinate and 200 mcg as > 5-Methyltetrahydrofolate) 400 mcg. > Vitamin B12 (200 mcg as Adenosylcobalamin and 200 mcg as Methylcobalamin) > 400 mcg. > Biotin 400 mcg. > Pantothenic Acid (as Calcium Pantothenate) 100 mg. > Choline Citrate 80 mg. > > Other Ingredients: Hypromellose (derived from cellulose) capsule, > MagnesiumCitratete, Silicon Dioxide. > > I was previously taking Longevity Plus Beyond B 12 sublingual > Methylcobalamin 2000mcg x 1 per day. > > Vitamin B-12 > (methylcobalamin/B-12 complex) 2,000 mcg 33% > NSE Methylators providing: 30 mg * > Folic Acid 200 mcg 50% > Biotin 25 mcg 8% > Vitamin B-6 4 mg 200% > > These Beyond B 12 tabs worked very well and doubled my B 12 levels to 900 > so just over the top of the range in about 6 weeks. The strange thing was > that over the same period my red cell folate actually halved from a high > 2343 to 1113, range (545 - 3370). Also my homocysteine came down from 8.1 to > 6.7 range (0.00 to 15.0). I understand that this is a good result. > I have previously (Nov 07) had a serum Methylmalonate test which was > comfortably below the top of the range 0.15 (<0.5) so not elevated. So from > this and in the absence of any identiiable symptoms I think my body is > probably able to convert and utilise this B 12 but am not sure about the > folate result. Would you agreee? > Thanks for the interesting link re transcobalamin. > From memory I think I have also had a UMMA but can't locate the results at > the moment but I seem to remember that it was ok. > Yes you are absolutely correct about the availability of methylcobalamin > here in Australia but no problem through iherb. > Kind regards > Wayne > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 i always recommend 5-methylfolate which will over come and stressed induced mutation of methylation. > > > > > > > Thanks Nigel you are a fountain of useful information. > > > > I see it as a bit of a dilemma. If I stop all vitamin supps 1 to 7 days > > prior to testing then the results could be viewed a couple of ways. > > 1. Results say are mid range does this mean that maybe I need to increase > > my dose to gain and maintain an optimal result or > > > > 2. Does it mean that my levels were probably optimal but they have > > naturally dropped back due to stopping the supps. In this case I should just > > continue on with my normal supplementation dose (ie no increase) as this > > will keep my levels at their optimal levels all the time I am supplementing. > > > > The argument I have been having with myself is if I continue to supplement > > up to the testing at least I will know absolutely without equivocation what > > my actual levels are when I an supplementing and then common sense dictates > > that if I stop or adjust the dose at anytime I know what will naturally > > happen to my established levels. Does this make sense to you? > > I also have the same conundrum with iron studies. I have ceased iron supps > > 5 to 8 days prior because that seems to be the accepted protocol but I > > wonder? > > > > With respect to B 12 and folate I take Thorne Basic B Complex 1 to 2 per > > day. > > > > Ingredients > > One Capsule Contains: > > Thiamin (as Thiamin HCl) 40 mg. > > Riboflavin (as Riboflavin 5'-Phosphate) 11 mg. > > Niacin (130 mg as Niacinamide and 10 mg as Niacin) 140 mg. > > Vitamin B6 (as Pyridoxal 5'-Phosphate) 10 mg. > > Folate (200 mcg as Calcium Folinate and 200 mcg as > > 5-Methyltetrahydrofolate) 400 mcg. > > Vitamin B12 (200 mcg as Adenosylcobalamin and 200 mcg as Methylcobalamin) > > 400 mcg. > > Biotin 400 mcg. > > Pantothenic Acid (as Calcium Pantothenate) 100 mg. > > Choline Citrate 80 mg. > > > > Other Ingredients: Hypromellose (derived from cellulose) capsule, > > MagnesiumCitratete, Silicon Dioxide. > > > > I was previously taking Longevity Plus Beyond B 12 sublingual > > Methylcobalamin 2000mcg x 1 per day. > > > > Vitamin B-12 > > (methylcobalamin/B-12 complex) 2,000 mcg 33% > > NSE Methylators providing: 30 mg * > > Folic Acid 200 mcg 50% > > Biotin 25 mcg 8% > > Vitamin B-6 4 mg 200% > > > > These Beyond B 12 tabs worked very well and doubled my B 12 levels to 900 > > so just over the top of the range in about 6 weeks. The strange thing was > > that over the same period my red cell folate actually halved from a high > > 2343 to 1113, range (545 - 3370). Also my homocysteine came down from 8.1 to > > 6.7 range (0.00 to 15.0). I understand that this is a good result. > > I have previously (Nov 07) had a serum Methylmalonate test which was > > comfortably below the top of the range 0.15 (<0.5) so not elevated. So from > > this and in the absence of any identiiable symptoms I think my body is > > probably able to convert and utilise this B 12 but am not sure about the > > folate result. Would you agreee? > > Thanks for the interesting link re transcobalamin. > > From memory I think I have also had a UMMA but can't locate the results at > > the moment but I seem to remember that it was ok. > > Yes you are absolutely correct about the availability of methylcobalamin > > here in Australia but no problem through iherb. > > Kind regards > > Wayne > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 When I first tested my Folate Serum even taking folic acid I was below normal levels. My Dr. told me to get Thorne Research - Folacal. ================================================== Product Description Administration of folinic acid bypasses the deconjugation and reduction steps required of folic acid to become this bioactive form of folate. Folinic acid is a more metabolically active form of folate, capable of boosting levels of the coenzyme forms of the vitamin in circumstances where folic acid has little to no effect. Another benefit of folinic acid is that it is the folate intermediary responsible for proper DNA and RNA synthesis. Thorne supplies 800 mcg of folinic acid in each capsule of Folacal. --------------------------------------------------- Now my levels are great last test was at Folate, Serum > 24.0 ng/mL. normal is > 5.4. My B-12 is Vitamin B12 995 range 200 – 1100 pg/mL. Taking B-12 (Brain) Methylcobalamin, 5000 mcg- 60 lozenges 2x's / week. Co-Moderator Phil > From: hardasnails1973 <hardasnails1973@...> > Subject: Re: B 12 & Folate > > Date: Sunday, January 30, 2011, 10:15 PM > i always recommend 5-methylfolate > which will over come and stressed induced mutation of > methylation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Nigel you are a fountain of useful > information. > > > > > > I see it as a bit of a dilemma. If I stop all > vitamin supps 1 to 7 days > > > prior to testing then the results could be viewed > a couple of ways. > > > 1. Results say are mid range does this mean that > maybe I need to increase > > > my dose to gain and maintain an optimal result > or > > > > > > 2. Does it mean that my levels were probably > optimal but they have > > > naturally dropped back due to stopping the supps. > In this case I should just > > > continue on with my normal supplementation dose > (ie no increase) as this > > > will keep my levels at their optimal levels all > the time I am supplementing. > > > > > > The argument I have been having with myself is if > I continue to supplement > > > up to the testing at least I will know absolutely > without equivocation what > > > my actual levels are when I an supplementing and > then common sense dictates > > > that if I stop or adjust the dose at anytime I > know what will naturally > > > happen to my established levels. Does this make > sense to you? > > > I also have the same conundrum with iron studies. > I have ceased iron supps > > > 5 to 8 days prior because that seems to be the > accepted protocol but I > > > wonder? > > > > > > With respect to B 12 and folate I take Thorne > Basic B Complex 1 to 2 per > > > day. > > > > > > Ingredients > > > One Capsule Contains: > > > Thiamin (as Thiamin HCl) 40 mg. > > > Riboflavin (as Riboflavin 5'-Phosphate) 11 mg. > > > Niacin (130 mg as Niacinamide and 10 mg as > Niacin) 140 mg. > > > Vitamin B6 (as Pyridoxal 5'-Phosphate) 10 mg. > > > Folate (200 mcg as Calcium Folinate and 200 mcg > as > > > 5-Methyltetrahydrofolate) 400 mcg. > > > Vitamin B12 (200 mcg as Adenosylcobalamin and 200 > mcg as Methylcobalamin) > > > 400 mcg. > > > Biotin 400 mcg. > > > Pantothenic Acid (as Calcium Pantothenate) 100 > mg. > > > Choline Citrate 80 mg. > > > > > > Other Ingredients: Hypromellose (derived from > cellulose) capsule, > > > MagnesiumCitratete, Silicon Dioxide. > > > > > > I was previously taking Longevity Plus Beyond B > 12 sublingual > > > Methylcobalamin 2000mcg x 1 per day. > > > > > > Vitamin B-12 > > > (methylcobalamin/B-12 complex) 2,000 mcg 33% > > > NSE Methylators providing: 30 mg * > > > Folic Acid 200 mcg 50% > > > Biotin 25 mcg 8% > > > Vitamin B-6 4 mg 200% > > > > > > These Beyond B 12 tabs worked very well and > doubled my B 12 levels to 900 > > > so just over the top of the range in about 6 > weeks. The strange thing was > > > that over the same period my red cell folate > actually halved from a high > > > 2343 to 1113, range (545 - 3370). Also my > homocysteine came down from 8.1 to > > > 6.7 range (0.00 to 15.0). I understand that this > is a good result. > > > I have previously (Nov 07) had a serum > Methylmalonate test which was > > > comfortably below the top of the range 0.15 > (<0.5) so not elevated. So from > > > this and in the absence of any identiiable > symptoms I think my body is > > > probably able to convert and utilise this B 12 > but am not sure about the > > > folate result. Would you agreee? > > > Thanks for the interesting link re > transcobalamin. > > > From memory I think I have also had a UMMA but > can't locate the results at > > > the moment but I seem to remember that it was > ok. > > > Yes you are absolutely correct about the > availability of methylcobalamin > > > here in Australia but no problem through iherb. > > > Kind regards > > > Wayne > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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