Re: Re: Latest hormone labs..

March 22, 2011

Once more, as I hate misunderstandings:

I normally take DHEA capsules and apply Testosterone gel in the Moring around

10-11 am. This is when I wake up. I know it's a little late but that's how it is

for now.

For testing, Dr. Hertoghe, my hormone doctor, tells me to apply the Testosterone

gel and to take the DHEA capsules in the EVENING instead of in the morning, in

the 3 days before drawing blood. He says this is the best way to get accurate

results. Probably cause it's 12 hours from application/ingestion instead of 24

hrs when I do my meds in the morning.

However this time, I applied the Testosterone gel and took the DHEA caps as I

normally do: In the morning. Of course, I drew blood BEFORE applying the

Testosterone gel and taking my DHEA capsules the morning of the blood draw.

Are we clear now Phil? Do you understand? From the point I put on the

Testosterone gel and took my last DHEA capsule before the blood draw at 11 am,

it went exactly 24 hours.

I would appreciate further comments on this.

Sendt fra min iPhone

Den 22. mars 2011 kl. 14.49 skrev " hardasnails1973 "

<hardasnails1973@...>:

always apply T gel before test 3 hours prior to get peak as well as your e2, not

applying the DHEA gel 2-3 night prior will result in giving false readings of e2

readings because it may being converted into e2. b-12 low is probably due to

malabsorption issues which makes sense. If b-12 is serum and it is low then you

have severe absorption issues. IMO these are erraneous and in accurate results

for Testosternoe and e2.

>

> 11th of March 2011:

>

> Free T3 5.8 (3.6 - 8.3 pmol/l)

> Free T4 9.4 (8 - 20 pmol/l)

> TSH 0.72 (0.5 - 3.6 mIE/l)

> Anti-TPO <10 (< 35 kIE/l)

> S-Testosterone 18.3 (8,0 - 35,0 nmol/l) - Did not apply gel/DHEA in the

evening 2-3 evenings before drawing blood. Applied gel/took DHEA as normal in

the mornings. But did NOT apply T-gel before drawing blood, only right after.

> Free Testosterone Index 8.0 (3,0 Ã¢â‚¬ " 14,7) NOTE: FTI = testosterone

(nmol/l) x 10/SHBG (nmol/l) = result.

> Estradiol 0.13 (0,06 - 0,14 nmol/l)

> SHBG 23 (8 - 60 nmol/l)

> S-Cortisol 665 (138 - 690 nmol/l) - 30-60 mins after 10 mg HC.

> FSH 1.6 (<12,0 IE/l)

> LH 3.2 (<12,0 IE/l)

> Progesterone 1.4 (< 3,0 nmol/l)

> OH-progesterone 3.8 (1,8 - 10,4 nmol/l)

> Ferritin 67 (30 - 250 m g/L)

> S-Iron 21.8 (9 - 34 m mol/L)

> Transferrin 2.4 (2 - 4 g/L)

> Transferrin saturation 37 (15 - 57%)

> TIBC 59 (49-83 umol/L)

> Vitamin B12 426 (160-800 pmol/L)

> FS-Glucose 5.0 (Serum 4.0 - 6,0 mmol/L)

> S-Aldosterone - In process

> S-Dihydrotestosteron - In process

> S-rT3 - In process

>

> Anything that stands out? I question Testosterone (low), Estradiol (high), and

B12 (low).

>

March 22, 2011

OK got it your still on the low side but it's about how you feel. I lowered my

Test C shot from 100mgs every 3 days to 70 mgs my Total T leveles went down from

917 to 667 and I feel better.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: <gibcast@...>

> Subject: Re: Re: Latest hormone labs..

> " " < >

> Date: Tuesday, March 22, 2011, 10:13 AM

> Once more, as I hate

> misunderstandings:

>

> I normally take DHEA capsules and apply Testosterone gel in

> the Moring around 10-11 am. This is when I wake up. I know

> it's a little late but that's how it is for now.

>

> For testing, Dr. Hertoghe, my hormone doctor, tells me to

> apply the Testosterone gel and to take the DHEA capsules in

> the EVENING instead of in the morning, in the 3 days before

> drawing blood. He says this is the best way to get accurate

> results. Probably cause it's 12 hours from

> application/ingestion instead of 24 hrs when I do my meds in

> the morning.

>

> However this time, I applied the Testosterone gel and took

> the DHEA caps as I normally do: In the morning. Of course, I

> drew blood BEFORE applying the Testosterone gel and taking

> my DHEA capsules the morning of the blood draw.

>

> Are we clear now Phil? Do you understand? From the point I

> put on the Testosterone gel and took my last DHEA capsule

> before the blood draw at 11 am, it went exactly 24 hours.

>

> I would appreciate further comments on this.

>

> Sendt fra min iPhone

>

> Den 22. mars 2011 kl. 14.49 skrev " hardasnails1973 "

<hardasnails1973@...>:

>

> always apply T gel before test 3 hours prior to get peak as

> well as your e2, not applying the DHEA gel 2-3 night prior

> will result in giving false readings of e2 readings because

> it may being converted into e2. b-12 low is probably due to

> malabsorption issues which makes sense. If b-12 is serum and

> it is low then you have severe absorption issues. IMO these

> are erraneous and in accurate results for Testosternoe and

> e2.

>

> >

> > 11th of March 2011:

> >

> > Free T3 5.8 (3.6 - 8.3 pmol/l)

> > Free T4 9.4 (8 - 20 pmol/l)

> > TSH 0.72 (0.5 - 3.6 mIE/l)

> > Anti-TPO <10 (< 35 kIE/l)

> > S-Testosterone 18.3 (8,0 - 35,0 nmol/l) - Did not

> apply gel/DHEA in the evening 2-3 evenings before drawing

> blood. Applied gel/took DHEA as normal in the mornings. But

> did NOT apply T-gel before drawing blood, only right after.

> > Free Testosterone Index 8.0 (3,0 Ã¢â‚¬ " 14,7) NOTE:

> FTI = testosterone (nmol/l) x 10/SHBG (nmol/l) = result.

> > Estradiol 0.13 (0,06 - 0,14 nmol/l)

> > SHBG 23 (8 - 60 nmol/l)

> > S-Cortisol 665 (138 - 690 nmol/l) - 30-60 mins after

> 10 mg HC.

> > FSH 1.6 (<12,0 IE/l)

> > LH 3.2 (<12,0 IE/l)

> > Progesterone 1.4 (< 3,0 nmol/l)

> > OH-progesterone 3.8 (1,8 - 10,4 nmol/l)

> > Ferritin 67 (30 - 250 m g/L)

> > S-Iron 21.8 (9 - 34 m mol/L)

> > Transferrin 2.4 (2 - 4 g/L)

> > Transferrin saturation 37 (15 - 57%)

> > TIBC 59 (49-83 umol/L)

> > Vitamin B12 426 (160-800 pmol/L)

> > FS-Glucose 5.0 (Serum 4.0 - 6,0 mmol/L)

> > S-Aldosterone - In process

> > S-Dihydrotestosteron - In process

> > S-rT3 - In process

> >

> > Anything that stands out? I question Testosterone

> (low), Estradiol (high), and B12 (low).

> >

March 22, 2011

I felt great back in 1997-2007 when my T was anything from midrange to lowrange

naturally while taking ONE hormone only: T4.

Maybe I have that kleinfelters syndrome thing? Maybe that's why I convert to too

much E2?

T.

Sendt fra min iPhone

Den 22. mars 2011 kl. 20.54 skrev philip georgian <pmgamer18@...>:

OK got it your still on the low side but it's about how you feel. I lowered my

Test C shot from 100mgs every 3 days to 70 mgs my Total T leveles went down from

917 to 667 and I feel better.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: <gibcast@...>

> Subject: Re: Re: Latest hormone labs..

> " " < >

> Date: Tuesday, March 22, 2011, 10:13 AM

> Once more, as I hate

> misunderstandings:

>

> I normally take DHEA capsules and apply Testosterone gel in

> the Moring around 10-11 am. This is when I wake up. I know

> it's a little late but that's how it is for now.

>

> For testing, Dr. Hertoghe, my hormone doctor, tells me to

> apply the Testosterone gel and to take the DHEA capsules in

> the EVENING instead of in the morning, in the 3 days before

> drawing blood. He says this is the best way to get accurate

> results. Probably cause it's 12 hours from

> application/ingestion instead of 24 hrs when I do my meds in

> the morning.

>

> However this time, I applied the Testosterone gel and took

> the DHEA caps as I normally do: In the morning. Of course, I

> drew blood BEFORE applying the Testosterone gel and taking

> my DHEA capsules the morning of the blood draw.

>

> Are we clear now Phil? Do you understand? From the point I

> put on the Testosterone gel and took my last DHEA capsule

> before the blood draw at 11 am, it went exactly 24 hours.

>

> I would appreciate further comments on this.

>

> Sendt fra min iPhone

>

> Den 22. mars 2011 kl. 14.49 skrev " hardasnails1973 "

<hardasnails1973@...>:

>

> always apply T gel before test 3 hours prior to get peak as

> well as your e2, not applying the DHEA gel 2-3 night prior

> will result in giving false readings of e2 readings because

> it may being converted into e2. b-12 low is probably due to

> malabsorption issues which makes sense. If b-12 is serum and

> it is low then you have severe absorption issues. IMO these

> are erraneous and in accurate results for Testosternoe and

> e2.

>

> >

> > 11th of March 2011:

> >

> > Free T3 5.8 (3.6 - 8.3 pmol/l)

> > Free T4 9.4 (8 - 20 pmol/l)

> > TSH 0.72 (0.5 - 3.6 mIE/l)

> > Anti-TPO <10 (< 35 kIE/l)

> > S-Testosterone 18.3 (8,0 - 35,0 nmol/l) - Did not

> apply gel/DHEA in the evening 2-3 evenings before drawing

> blood. Applied gel/took DHEA as normal in the mornings. But

> did NOT apply T-gel before drawing blood, only right after.

> > Free Testosterone Index 8.0 (3,0 Ã¢â‚¬ " 14,7) NOTE:

> FTI = testosterone (nmol/l) x 10/SHBG (nmol/l) = result.

> > Estradiol 0.13 (0,06 - 0,14 nmol/l)

> > SHBG 23 (8 - 60 nmol/l)

> > S-Cortisol 665 (138 - 690 nmol/l) - 30-60 mins after

> 10 mg HC.

> > FSH 1.6 (<12,0 IE/l)

> > LH 3.2 (<12,0 IE/l)

> > Progesterone 1.4 (< 3,0 nmol/l)

> > OH-progesterone 3.8 (1,8 - 10,4 nmol/l)

> > Ferritin 67 (30 - 250 m g/L)

> > S-Iron 21.8 (9 - 34 m mol/L)

> > Transferrin 2.4 (2 - 4 g/L)

> > Transferrin saturation 37 (15 - 57%)

> > TIBC 59 (49-83 umol/L)

> > Vitamin B12 426 (160-800 pmol/L)

> > FS-Glucose 5.0 (Serum 4.0 - 6,0 mmol/L)

> > S-Aldosterone - In process

> > S-Dihydrotestosteron - In process

> > S-rT3 - In process

> >

> > Anything that stands out? I question Testosterone

> (low), Estradiol (high), and B12 (low).

> >

March 22, 2011

Tom,

Most if not all men on TRT end up treating high levels of E2.

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> > From: <gibcast@...>

> > Subject: Re: Re: Latest hormone labs..

> > " "

> < >

> > Date: Tuesday, March 22, 2011, 10:13 AM

> > Once more, as I hate

> > misunderstandings:

> >

> > I normally take DHEA capsules and apply Testosterone

> gel in

> > the Moring around 10-11 am. This is when I wake up. I

> know

> > it's a little late but that's how it is for now.

> >

> > For testing, Dr. Hertoghe, my hormone doctor, tells me

> to

> > apply the Testosterone gel and to take the DHEA

> capsules in

> > the EVENING instead of in the morning, in the 3 days

> before

> > drawing blood. He says this is the best way to get

> accurate

> > results. Probably cause it's 12 hours from

> > application/ingestion instead of 24 hrs when I do my

> meds in

> > the morning.

> >

> > However this time, I applied the Testosterone gel and

> took

> > the DHEA caps as I normally do: In the morning. Of

> course, I

> > drew blood BEFORE applying the Testosterone gel and

> taking

> > my DHEA capsules the morning of the blood draw.

> >

> > Are we clear now Phil? Do you understand? From the

> point I

> > put on the Testosterone gel and took my last DHEA

> capsule

> > before the blood draw at 11 am, it went exactly 24

> hours.

> >

> > I would appreciate further comments on this.

> >

> > Sendt fra min iPhone

> >

> > Den 22. mars 2011 kl. 14.49 skrev " hardasnails1973 "

> <hardasnails1973@...>:

> >

> > always apply T gel before test 3 hours prior to get

> peak as

> > well as your e2, not applying the DHEA gel 2-3 night

> prior

> > will result in giving false readings of e2 readings

> because

> > it may being converted into e2. b-12 low is probably

> due to

> > malabsorption issues which makes sense. If b-12 is

> serum and

> > it is low then you have severe absorption issues. IMO

> these

> > are erraneous and in accurate results for Testosternoe

> and

> > e2.

> >

> > >

> > > 11th of March 2011:

> > >

> > > Free T3 5.8 (3.6 - 8.3 pmol/l)

> > > Free T4 9.4 (8 - 20 pmol/l)

> > > TSH 0.72 (0.5 - 3.6 mIE/l)

> > > Anti-TPO <10 (< 35 kIE/l)

> > > S-Testosterone 18.3 (8,0 - 35,0 nmol/l) - Did

> not

> > apply gel/DHEA in the evening 2-3 evenings before

> drawing

> > blood. Applied gel/took DHEA as normal in the

> mornings. But

> > did NOT apply T-gel before drawing blood, only right

> after.

> > > Free Testosterone Index 8.0 (3,0 Ã¢â‚¬ " 14,7)

> NOTE:

> > FTI = testosterone (nmol/l) x 10/SHBG (nmol/l) =

> result.

> > > Estradiol 0.13 (0,06 - 0,14 nmol/l)

> > > SHBG 23 (8 - 60 nmol/l)

> > > S-Cortisol 665 (138 - 690 nmol/l) - 30-60 mins

> after

> > 10 mg HC.

> > > FSH 1.6 (<12,0 IE/l)

> > > LH 3.2 (<12,0 IE/l)

> > > Progesterone 1.4 (< 3,0 nmol/l)

> > > OH-progesterone 3.8 (1,8 - 10,4 nmol/l)

> > > Ferritin 67 (30 - 250 m g/L)

> > > S-Iron 21.8 (9 - 34 m mol/L)

> > > Transferrin 2.4 (2 - 4 g/L)

> > > Transferrin saturation 37 (15 - 57%)

> > > TIBC 59 (49-83 umol/L)

> > > Vitamin B12 426 (160-800 pmol/L)

> > > FS-Glucose 5.0 (Serum 4.0 - 6,0 mmol/L)

> > > S-Aldosterone - In process

> > > S-Dihydrotestosteron - In process

> > > S-rT3 - In process

> > >

> > > Anything that stands out? I question

> Testosterone

> > (low), Estradiol (high), and B12 (low).

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> > >

> >

March 23, 2011

Who said I didn't tale dhea 3 days before the blood draw? I do!!!!

Sendt fra min iPhone

Den 23. mars 2011 kl. 14.21 skrev " hardasnails1973 "

<hardasnails1973@...>:

just stop the dhea night before the blood draw. This is probably why you can not

stablize for christ sakes because your not getting accurate e2 results. your e2

is this high 3 days with out dhea, what that hell is it will it ? Some times

these drs do not use common sense. In the mean time patient suffers.

In , <gibcast@...> wrote:

>

> Once more, as I hate misunderstandings:

>

> I normally take DHEA capsules and apply Testosterone gel in the Moring around

10-11 am. This is when I wake up. I know it's a little late but that's how it is

for now.

>

> For testing, Dr. Hertoghe, my hormone doctor, tells me to apply the

Testosterone gel and to take the DHEA capsules in the EVENING instead of in the

morning, in the 3 days before drawing blood. He says this is the best way to get

accurate results. Probably cause it's 12 hours from application/ingestion

instead of 24 hrs when I do my meds in the morning.

>

> However this time, I applied the Testosterone gel and took the DHEA caps as I

normally do: In the morning. Of course, I drew blood BEFORE applying the

Testosterone gel and taking my DHEA capsules the morning of the blood draw.

>

> Are we clear now Phil? Do you understand? From the point I put on the

Testosterone gel and took my last DHEA capsule before the blood draw at 11 am,

it went exactly 24 hours.

>

> I would appreciate further comments on this.

>

> Sendt fra min iPhone

>

> Den 22. mars 2011 kl. 14.49 skrev " hardasnails1973 " <hardasnails1973@...>:

>

> always apply T gel before test 3 hours prior to get peak as well as your e2,

not applying the DHEA gel 2-3 night prior will result in giving false readings

of e2 readings because it may being converted into e2. b-12 low is probably due

to malabsorption issues which makes sense. If b-12 is serum and it is low then

you have severe absorption issues. IMO these are erraneous and in accurate

results for Testosternoe and e2.

>

> >

> > 11th of March 2011:

> >

> > Free T3 5.8 (3.6 - 8.3 pmol/l)

> > Free T4 9.4 (8 - 20 pmol/l)

> > TSH 0.72 (0.5 - 3.6 mIE/l)

> > Anti-TPO <10 (< 35 kIE/l)

> > S-Testosterone 18.3 (8,0 - 35,0 nmol/l) - Did not apply gel/DHEA in the

evening 2-3 evenings before drawing blood. Applied gel/took DHEA as normal in

the mornings. But did NOT apply T-gel before drawing blood, only right after.

> > Free Testosterone Index 8.0 (3,0 ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬ " 14,7) NOTE: FTI = testosterone

(nmol/l) x 10/SHBG (nmol/l) = result.

> > Estradiol 0.13 (0,06 - 0,14 nmol/l)

> > SHBG 23 (8 - 60 nmol/l)

> > S-Cortisol 665 (138 - 690 nmol/l) - 30-60 mins after 10 mg HC.

> > FSH 1.6 (<12,0 IE/l)

> > LH 3.2 (<12,0 IE/l)

> > Progesterone 1.4 (< 3,0 nmol/l)

> > OH-progesterone 3.8 (1,8 - 10,4 nmol/l)

> > Ferritin 67 (30 - 250 m g/L)

> > S-Iron 21.8 (9 - 34 m mol/L)

> > Transferrin 2.4 (2 - 4 g/L)

> > Transferrin saturation 37 (15 - 57%)

> > TIBC 59 (49-83 umol/L)

> > Vitamin B12 426 (160-800 pmol/L)

> > FS-Glucose 5.0 (Serum 4.0 - 6,0 mmol/L)

> > S-Aldosterone - In process

> > S-Dihydrotestosteron - In process

> > S-rT3 - In process

> >

> > Anything that stands out? I question Testosterone (low), Estradiol (high),

and B12 (low).

> >

March 23, 2011

Both hard and phil misunderstand me. I dont Get it. Is my English that horrible?

I have told you guys clearly that I TAKE both Testosterone and DHEA every day

like I always do, the ONLY difference is that Hertoghe tells me to take these in

the evening instead of in the morning trer days before the draw. So I dont stop

taking anything, I just take Testosterone and DHEA later in the three days

before the draw! Is this clear now?

My question to you guys: Applying Testosterone gel and taking the DHEA capsule

12 hours before the blood draw, is this good? This is what Hertoghe wants.

Though he doesnt state when to take it, just " evening " so I figure 9-10 pm is

good when I draw blood at 12 am the next day.

So THIS time, I didn't do as Hertoghe wants me to do: I took everything as I

normally do, in the mornings. So it was exactly 24 hrs from the point I applied

Testosteroe gel and swallowed my DHEA capsule til blood was drawn.

Sendt fra min iPhone

Den 23. mars 2011 kl. 14.21 skrev " hardasnails1973 "

<hardasnails1973@...>:

just stop the dhea night before the blood draw. This is probably why you can not

stablize for christ sakes because your not getting accurate e2 results. your e2

is this high 3 days with out dhea, what that hell is it will it ? Some times

these drs do not use common sense. In the mean time patient suffers.

In , <gibcast@...> wrote:

>

> Once more, as I hate misunderstandings:

>

> I normally take DHEA capsules and apply Testosterone gel in the Moring around

10-11 am. This is when I wake up. I know it's a little late but that's how it is

for now.

>

> For testing, Dr. Hertoghe, my hormone doctor, tells me to apply the

Testosterone gel and to take the DHEA capsules in the EVENING instead of in the

morning, in the 3 days before drawing blood. He says this is the best way to get

accurate results. Probably cause it's 12 hours from application/ingestion

instead of 24 hrs when I do my meds in the morning.

>

> However this time, I applied the Testosterone gel and took the DHEA caps as I

normally do: In the morning. Of course, I drew blood BEFORE applying the

Testosterone gel and taking my DHEA capsules the morning of the blood draw.

>

> Are we clear now Phil? Do you understand? From the point I put on the

Testosterone gel and took my last DHEA capsule before the blood draw at 11 am,

it went exactly 24 hours.

>

> I would appreciate further comments on this.

>

> Sendt fra min iPhone

>

> Den 22. mars 2011 kl. 14.49 skrev " hardasnails1973 " <hardasnails1973@...>:

>

> always apply T gel before test 3 hours prior to get peak as well as your e2,

not applying the DHEA gel 2-3 night prior will result in giving false readings

of e2 readings because it may being converted into e2. b-12 low is probably due

to malabsorption issues which makes sense. If b-12 is serum and it is low then

you have severe absorption issues. IMO these are erraneous and in accurate

results for Testosternoe and e2.

>

> >

> > 11th of March 2011:

> >

> > Free T3 5.8 (3.6 - 8.3 pmol/l)

> > Free T4 9.4 (8 - 20 pmol/l)

> > TSH 0.72 (0.5 - 3.6 mIE/l)

> > Anti-TPO <10 (< 35 kIE/l)

> > S-Testosterone 18.3 (8,0 - 35,0 nmol/l) - Did not apply gel/DHEA in the

evening 2-3 evenings before drawing blood. Applied gel/took DHEA as normal in

the mornings. But did NOT apply T-gel before drawing blood, only right after.

> > Free Testosterone Index 8.0 (3,0 ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬ " 14,7) NOTE: FTI = testosterone

(nmol/l) x 10/SHBG (nmol/l) = result.

> > Estradiol 0.13 (0,06 - 0,14 nmol/l)

> > SHBG 23 (8 - 60 nmol/l)

> > S-Cortisol 665 (138 - 690 nmol/l) - 30-60 mins after 10 mg HC.

> > FSH 1.6 (<12,0 IE/l)

> > LH 3.2 (<12,0 IE/l)

> > Progesterone 1.4 (< 3,0 nmol/l)

> > OH-progesterone 3.8 (1,8 - 10,4 nmol/l)

> > Ferritin 67 (30 - 250 m g/L)

> > S-Iron 21.8 (9 - 34 m mol/L)

> > Transferrin 2.4 (2 - 4 g/L)

> > Transferrin saturation 37 (15 - 57%)

> > TIBC 59 (49-83 umol/L)

> > Vitamin B12 426 (160-800 pmol/L)

> > FS-Glucose 5.0 (Serum 4.0 - 6,0 mmol/L)

> > S-Aldosterone - In process

> > S-Dihydrotestosteron - In process

> > S-rT3 - In process

> >

> > Anything that stands out? I question Testosterone (low), Estradiol (high),

and B12 (low).

> >

March 23, 2011

Both hard and phil misunderstand me. I dont Get it. Is my English that

horrible? I have told you guys clearly that I TAKE both Testosterone

and DHEA every day like I always do, the ONLY difference is that

Hertoghe tells me to take these in the evening instead of in the

morning trer days before the draw. So I dont stop taking anything, I

just take Testosterone and DHEA later in the three days before the

draw! Is this clear now?

My question to you guys: Applying Testosterone gel and taking the DHEA

capsule 12 hours before the blood draw, is this good? This is what

Hertoghe wants. Though he doesnt state when to take it, just " evening "

so I figure 9-10 pm is good when I draw blood at 12 am the next day.

So THIS time, I didn't do as Hertoghe wants me to do: I took

everything as I normally do, in the mornings. So it was exactly 24 hrs

from the point I applied Testosteroe gel and swallowed my DHEA capsule

til blood was drawn.

Sendt fra min iPhone

Den 23. mars 2011 kl. 14.21 skrev " hardasnails1973 " <hardasnails1973@...

>:

> just stop the dhea night before the blood draw. This is probably why

> you can not stablize for christ sakes because your not getting

> accurate e2 results. your e2 is this high 3 days with out dhea, what

> that hell is it will it ? Some times these drs do not use common

> sense. In the mean time patient suffers.

>

> In , <gibcast@...> wrote:

> >

> > Once more, as I hate misunderstandings:

> >

> > I normally take DHEA capsules and apply Testosterone gel in the

> Moring around 10-11 am. This is when I wake up. I know it's a little

> late but that's how it is for now.

> >

> > For testing, Dr. Hertoghe, my hormone doctor, tells me to apply

> the Testosterone gel and to take the DHEA capsules in the EVENING

> instead of in the morning, in the 3 days before drawing blood. He

> says this is the best way to get accurate results. Probably cause

> it's 12 hours from application/ingestion instead of 24 hrs when I do

> my meds in the morning.

> >

> > However this time, I applied the Testosterone gel and took the

> DHEA caps as I normally do: In the morning. Of course, I drew blood

> BEFORE applying the Testosterone gel and taking my DHEA capsules the

> morning of the blood draw.

> >

> > Are we clear now Phil? Do you understand? From the point I put on

> the Testosterone gel and took my last DHEA capsule before the blood

> draw at 11 am, it went exactly 24 hours.

> >

> > I would appreciate further comments on this.

> >

> > Sendt fra min iPhone

> >

> > Den 22. mars 2011 kl. 14.49 skrev " hardasnails1973 "

> <hardasnails1973@...>:

> >

> > always apply T gel before test 3 hours prior to get peak as well

> as your e2, not applying the DHEA gel 2-3 night prior will result in

> giving false readings of e2 readings because it may being converted

> into e2. b-12 low is probably due to malabsorption issues which

> makes sense. If b-12 is serum and it is low then you have severe

> absorption issues. IMO these are erraneous and in accurate results

> for Testosternoe and e2.

> >

> > >

> > > 11th of March 2011:

> > >

> > > Free T3 5.8 (3.6 - 8.3 pmol/l)

> > > Free T4 9.4 (8 - 20 pmol/l)

> > > TSH 0.72 (0.5 - 3.6 mIE/l)

> > > Anti-TPO <10 (< 35 kIE/l)

> > > S-Testosterone 18.3 (8,0 - 35,0 nmol/l) - Did not apply gel/DHEA

> in the evening 2-3 evenings before drawing blood. Applied gel/took

> DHEA as normal in the mornings. But did NOT apply T-gel before

> drawing blood, only right after.

> > > Free Testosterone Index 8.0 (3,0 ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬ " 14,7) NOTE: FTI =

> testosterone (nmol/l) x 10/SHBG (nmol/l) = result.

> > > Estradiol 0.13 (0,06 - 0,14 nmol/l)

> > > SHBG 23 (8 - 60 nmol/l)

> > > S-Cortisol 665 (138 - 690 nmol/l) - 30-60 mins after 10 mg HC.

> > > FSH 1.6 (<12,0 IE/l)

> > > LH 3.2 (<12,0 IE/l)

> > > Progesterone 1.4 (< 3,0 nmol/l)

> > > OH-progesterone 3.8 (1,8 - 10,4 nmol/l)

> > > Ferritin 67 (30 - 250 m g/L)

> > > S-Iron 21.8 (9 - 34 m mol/L)

> > > Transferrin 2.4 (2 - 4 g/L)

> > > Transferrin saturation 37 (15 - 57%)

> > > TIBC 59 (49-83 umol/L)

> > > Vitamin B12 426 (160-800 pmol/L)

> > > FS-Glucose 5.0 (Serum 4.0 - 6,0 mmol/L)

> > > S-Aldosterone - In process

> > > S-Dihydrotestosteron - In process

> > > S-rT3 - In process

> > >

> > > Anything that stands out? I question Testosterone (low),

> Estradiol (high), and B12 (low).

> > >

March 23, 2011

I DIDNT STOP ANYTHING!!!!!!!

Wtf

Sendt fra min iPhone

Den 23. mars 2011 kl. 15.23 skrev " hardasnails1973 "

<hardasnails1973@...>:

Lets make this simple.

1. how long before the test did you stop the DHEA.

> > >

> > > 11th of March 2011:

> > >

> > > Free T3 5.8 (3.6 - 8.3 pmol/l)

> > > Free T4 9.4 (8 - 20 pmol/l)

> > > TSH 0.72 (0.5 - 3.6 mIE/l)

> > > Anti-TPO <10 (< 35 kIE/l)

> > > S-Testosterone 18.3 (8,0 - 35,0 nmol/l) - Did not apply gel/DHEA in the

evening 2-3 evenings before drawing blood. Applied gel/took DHEA as normal in

the mornings. But did NOT apply T-gel before drawing blood, only right after.

> > > Free Testosterone Index 8.0 (3,0 ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚Â¬ " 14,7) NOTE: FTI

= testosterone (nmol/l) x 10/SHBG (nmol/l) = result.

> > > Estradiol 0.13 (0,06 - 0,14 nmol/l)

> > > SHBG 23 (8 - 60 nmol/l)

> > > S-Cortisol 665 (138 - 690 nmol/l) - 30-60 mins after 10 mg HC.

> > > FSH 1.6 (<12,0 IE/l)

> > > LH 3.2 (<12,0 IE/l)

> > > Progesterone 1.4 (< 3,0 nmol/l)

> > > OH-progesterone 3.8 (1,8 - 10,4 nmol/l)

> > > Ferritin 67 (30 - 250 m g/L)

> > > S-Iron 21.8 (9 - 34 m mol/L)

> > > Transferrin 2.4 (2 - 4 g/L)

> > > Transferrin saturation 37 (15 - 57%)

> > > TIBC 59 (49-83 umol/L)

> > > Vitamin B12 426 (160-800 pmol/L)

> > > FS-Glucose 5.0 (Serum 4.0 - 6,0 mmol/L)

> > > S-Aldosterone - In process

> > > S-Dihydrotestosteron - In process

> > > S-rT3 - In process

> > >

> > > Anything that stands out? I question Testosterone (low), Estradiol (high),

and B12 (low).

> > >

March 23, 2011

Hard Tom sees one of the top Dr.'s in the world.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: hardasnails1973 <hardasnails1973@...>

> Subject: Re: Latest hormone labs..

>

> Date: Wednesday, March 23, 2011, 9:23 AM

> It depends on the competency of the

> dr and proper testing methods..

>

> > > > >

> > > > > 11th of March 2011:

> > > > >

> > > > > Free T3 5.8 (3.6 - 8.3 pmol/l)

> > > > > Free T4 9.4 (8 - 20 pmol/l)

> > > > > TSH 0.72 (0.5 - 3.6 mIE/l)

> > > > > Anti-TPO <10 (< 35 kIE/l)

> > > > > S-Testosterone 18.3 (8,0 - 35,0 nmol/l)

> - Did

> > > not

> > > > apply gel/DHEA in the evening 2-3 evenings

> before

> > > drawing

> > > > blood. Applied gel/took DHEA as normal in

> the

> > > mornings. But

> > > > did NOT apply T-gel before drawing blood,

> only right

> > > after.

> > > > > Free Testosterone Index 8.0 (3,0

> ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬ " 14,7)

> > > NOTE:

> > > > FTI = testosterone (nmol/l) x 10/SHBG

> (nmol/l) =

> > > result.

> > > > > Estradiol 0.13 (0,06 - 0,14 nmol/l)

> > > > > SHBG 23 (8 - 60 nmol/l)

> > > > > S-Cortisol 665 (138 - 690 nmol/l) -

> 30-60 mins

> > > after

> > > > 10 mg HC.

> > > > > FSH 1.6 (<12,0 IE/l)

> > > > > LH 3.2 (<12,0 IE/l)

> > > > > Progesterone 1.4 (< 3,0 nmol/l)

> > > > > OH-progesterone 3.8 (1,8 - 10,4

> nmol/l)

> > > > > Ferritin 67 (30 - 250 m g/L)

> > > > > S-Iron 21.8 (9 - 34 m mol/L)

> > > > > Transferrin 2.4 (2 - 4 g/L)

> > > > > Transferrin saturation 37 (15 - 57%)

> > > > > TIBC 59 (49-83 umol/L)

> > > > > Vitamin B12 426 (160-800 pmol/L)

> > > > > FS-Glucose 5.0 (Serum 4.0 - 6,0

> mmol/L)

> > > > > S-Aldosterone - In process

> > > > > S-Dihydrotestosteron - In process

> > > > > S-rT3 - In process

> > > > >

> > > > > Anything that stands out? I question

> > > Testosterone

> > > > (low), Estradiol (high), and B12 (low).

> > > > >

> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have

> been

> > > removed]

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

March 23, 2011

Yes it was hard to read but now I understand what your saying. What my Dr. told

me when I do labs to not take DHEA supplements for a few days before doing labs

it can make Estraidol look highe then it is.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> >

> > Once more, as I hate misunderstandings:

> >

> > I normally take DHEA capsules and apply Testosterone

> gel in the Moring around 10-11 am. This is when I wake up. I

> know it's a little late but that's how it is for now.

> >

> > For testing, Dr. Hertoghe, my hormone doctor, tells me

> to apply the Testosterone gel and to take the DHEA capsules

> in the EVENING instead of in the morning, in the 3 days

> before drawing blood. He says this is the best way to get

> accurate results. Probably cause it's 12 hours from

> application/ingestion instead of 24 hrs when I do my meds in

> the morning.

> >

> > However this time, I applied the Testosterone gel and

> took the DHEA caps as I normally do: In the morning. Of

> course, I drew blood BEFORE applying the Testosterone gel

> and taking my DHEA capsules the morning of the blood draw.

> >

> > Are we clear now Phil? Do you understand? From the

> point I put on the Testosterone gel and took my last DHEA

> capsule before the blood draw at 11 am, it went exactly 24

> hours.

> >

> > I would appreciate further comments on this.

> >

> > Sendt fra min iPhone

> >

> > Den 22. mars 2011 kl. 14.49 skrev " hardasnails1973 "

> <hardasnails1973@...>:

> >

> > always apply T gel before test 3 hours prior to get

> peak as well as your e2, not applying the DHEA gel 2-3 night

> prior will result in giving false readings of e2 readings

> because it may being converted into e2. b-12 low is probably

> due to malabsorption issues which makes sense. If b-12 is

> serum and it is low then you have severe absorption issues.

> IMO these are erraneous and in accurate results for

> Testosternoe and e2.

> >

> > >

> > > 11th of March 2011:

> > >

> > > Free T3 5.8 (3.6 - 8.3 pmol/l)

> > > Free T4 9.4 (8 - 20 pmol/l)

> > > TSH 0.72 (0.5 - 3.6 mIE/l)

> > > Anti-TPO <10 (< 35 kIE/l)

> > > S-Testosterone 18.3 (8,0 - 35,0 nmol/l) - Did not

> apply gel/DHEA in the evening 2-3 evenings before drawing

> blood. Applied gel/took DHEA as normal in the mornings. But

> did NOT apply T-gel before drawing blood, only right after.

> > > Free Testosterone Index 8.0 (3,0 ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬ "

> 14,7) NOTE: FTI = testosterone (nmol/l) x 10/SHBG (nmol/l) =

> result.

> > > Estradiol 0.13 (0,06 - 0,14 nmol/l)

> > > SHBG 23 (8 - 60 nmol/l)

> > > S-Cortisol 665 (138 - 690 nmol/l) - 30-60 mins

> after 10 mg HC.

> > > FSH 1.6 (<12,0 IE/l)

> > > LH 3.2 (<12,0 IE/l)

> > > Progesterone 1.4 (< 3,0 nmol/l)

> > > OH-progesterone 3.8 (1,8 - 10,4 nmol/l)

> > > Ferritin 67 (30 - 250 m g/L)

> > > S-Iron 21.8 (9 - 34 m mol/L)

> > > Transferrin 2.4 (2 - 4 g/L)

> > > Transferrin saturation 37 (15 - 57%)

> > > TIBC 59 (49-83 umol/L)

> > > Vitamin B12 426 (160-800 pmol/L)

> > > FS-Glucose 5.0 (Serum 4.0 - 6,0 mmol/L)

> > > S-Aldosterone - In process

> > > S-Dihydrotestosteron - In process

> > > S-rT3 - In process

> > >

> > > Anything that stands out? I question Testosterone

> (low), Estradiol (high), and B12 (low).

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> > >

> >

March 23, 2011

Ok.

But what do you mean " look higher than it is " ? - If one takes DHEA every day,

E2 will be what E2 will be like while taking DHEA. So, in my opinion one

shouldn't stop DHEA, cause then you could just stop DHEA and never take it - If

you like what your E2 is like without DHEA!

Bottom line: I take Testo gel and DHEA 12 hours before drawing blood! But the

latest results you've seen are from taking Testo gel and DHEA 24 hours before

drawing blood.

> >

> > Once more, as I hate misunderstandings:

> >

> > I normally take DHEA capsules and apply Testosterone

> gel in the Moring around 10-11 am. This is when I wake up. I

> know it's a little late but that's how it is for now.

> >

> > For testing, Dr. Hertoghe, my hormone doctor, tells me

> to apply the Testosterone gel and to take the DHEA capsules

> in the EVENING instead of in the morning, in the 3 days

> before drawing blood. He says this is the best way to get

> accurate results. Probably cause it's 12 hours from

> application/ingestion instead of 24 hrs when I do my meds in

> the morning.

> >

> > However this time, I applied the Testosterone gel and

> took the DHEA caps as I normally do: In the morning. Of

> course, I drew blood BEFORE applying the Testosterone gel

> and taking my DHEA capsules the morning of the blood draw.

> >

> > Are we clear now Phil? Do you understand? From the

> point I put on the Testosterone gel and took my last DHEA

> capsule before the blood draw at 11 am, it went exactly 24

> hours.

> >

> > I would appreciate further comments on this.

> >

> > Sendt fra min iPhone

> >

> > Den 22. mars 2011 kl. 14.49 skrev " hardasnails1973 "

> <hardasnails1973@...>:

> >

> > always apply T gel before test 3 hours prior to get

> peak as well as your e2, not applying the DHEA gel 2-3 night

> prior will result in giving false readings of e2 readings

> because it may being converted into e2. b-12 low is probably

> due to malabsorption issues which makes sense. If b-12 is

> serum and it is low then you have severe absorption issues.

> IMO these are erraneous and in accurate results for

> Testosternoe and e2.

> >

> > >

> > > 11th of March 2011:

> > >

> > > Free T3 5.8 (3.6 - 8.3 pmol/l)

> > > Free T4 9.4 (8 - 20 pmol/l)

> > > TSH 0.72 (0.5 - 3.6 mIE/l)

> > > Anti-TPO <10 (< 35 kIE/l)

> > > S-Testosterone 18.3 (8,0 - 35,0 nmol/l) - Did not

> apply gel/DHEA in the evening 2-3 evenings before drawing

> blood. Applied gel/took DHEA as normal in the mornings. But

> did NOT apply T-gel before drawing blood, only right after.

> > > Free Testosterone Index 8.0 (3,0 ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬ "

> 14,7) NOTE: FTI = testosterone (nmol/l) x 10/SHBG (nmol/l) =

> result.

> > > Estradiol 0.13 (0,06 - 0,14 nmol/l)

> > > SHBG 23 (8 - 60 nmol/l)

> > > S-Cortisol 665 (138 - 690 nmol/l) - 30-60 mins

> after 10 mg HC.

> > > FSH 1.6 (<12,0 IE/l)

> > > LH 3.2 (<12,0 IE/l)

> > > Progesterone 1.4 (< 3,0 nmol/l)

> > > OH-progesterone 3.8 (1,8 - 10,4 nmol/l)

> > > Ferritin 67 (30 - 250 m g/L)

> > > S-Iron 21.8 (9 - 34 m mol/L)

> > > Transferrin 2.4 (2 - 4 g/L)

> > > Transferrin saturation 37 (15 - 57%)

> > > TIBC 59 (49-83 umol/L)

> > > Vitamin B12 426 (160-800 pmol/L)

> > > FS-Glucose 5.0 (Serum 4.0 - 6,0 mmol/L)

> > > S-Aldosterone - In process

> > > S-Dihydrotestosteron - In process

> > > S-rT3 - In process

> > >

> > > Anything that stands out? I question Testosterone

> (low), Estradiol (high), and B12 (low).

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> > >

> >

March 23, 2011

I am not telling you to stop your DHEA just telling you what my Dr. told me. On

DHEA pills it converted into Estradiol drove my levels up on labs so I took more

Arimidex and would end up going to low. So my Dr. told me stop taking DHEA a

few days before doing my labs. Doing this fixed my problem of looking to high

on Estradiol and taking more Arimidex when I did not need more.

When we talk about what we do for our selfs we are not telling you to do the

same you do what your Dr. tells you no matter what anyone hear says.

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> > >

>

> > > Once more, as I hate misunderstandings:

>

> > >

>

> > > I normally take DHEA capsules and apply

> Testosterone

>

> > gel in the Moring around 10-11 am. This is when I wake

> up. I

>

> > know it's a little late but that's how it is for now.

>

> > >

>

> > > For testing, Dr. Hertoghe, my hormone doctor,

> tells me

>

> > to apply the Testosterone gel and to take the DHEA

> capsules

>

> > in the EVENING instead of in the morning, in the 3

> days

>

> > before drawing blood. He says this is the best way to

> get

>

> > accurate results. Probably cause it's 12 hours from

>

> > application/ingestion instead of 24 hrs when I do my

> meds in

>

> > the morning.

>

> > >

>

> > > However this time, I applied the Testosterone gel

> and

>

> > took the DHEA caps as I normally do: In the morning.

> Of

>

> > course, I drew blood BEFORE applying the Testosterone

> gel

>

> > and taking my DHEA capsules the morning of the blood

> draw.

>

> > >

>

> > > Are we clear now Phil? Do you understand? From

> the

>

> > point I put on the Testosterone gel and took my last

> DHEA

>

> > capsule before the blood draw at 11 am, it went

> exactly 24

>

> > hours.

>

> > >

>

> > > I would appreciate further comments on this.

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > Sendt fra min iPhone

>

> > >

>

> > > Den 22. mars 2011 kl. 14.49 skrev

> " hardasnails1973 "

>

> > <hardasnails1973@...>:

>

> > >

>

> > > always apply T gel before test 3 hours prior to

> get

>

> > peak as well as your e2, not applying the DHEA gel 2-3

> night

>

> > prior will result in giving false readings of e2

> readings

>

> > because it may being converted into e2. b-12 low is

> probably

>

> > due to malabsorption issues which makes sense. If b-12

> is

>

> > serum and it is low then you have severe absorption

> issues.

>

> > IMO these are erraneous and in accurate results for

>

> > Testosternoe and e2.

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > 11th of March 2011:

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Free T3 5.8 (3.6 - 8.3 pmol/l)

>

> > > > Free T4 9.4 (8 - 20 pmol/l)

>

> > > > TSH 0.72 (0.5 - 3.6 mIE/l)

>

> > > > Anti-TPO <10 (< 35 kIE/l)

>

> > > > S-Testosterone 18.3 (8,0 - 35,0 nmol/l) -

> Did not

>

> > apply gel/DHEA in the evening 2-3 evenings before

> drawing

>

> > blood. Applied gel/took DHEA as normal in the

> mornings. But

>

> > did NOT apply T-gel before drawing blood, only right

> after.

>

> > > > Free Testosterone Index 8.0 (3,0

> ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬ "

>

> > 14,7) NOTE: FTI = testosterone (nmol/l) x 10/SHBG

> (nmol/l) =

>

> > result.

>

> > > > Estradiol 0.13 (0,06 - 0,14 nmol/l)

>

> > > > SHBG 23 (8 - 60 nmol/l)

>

> > > > S-Cortisol 665 (138 - 690 nmol/l) - 30-60

> mins

>

> > after 10 mg HC.

>

> > > > FSH 1.6 (<12,0 IE/l)

>

> > > > LH 3.2 (<12,0 IE/l)

>

> > > > Progesterone 1.4 (< 3,0 nmol/l)

>

> > > > OH-progesterone 3.8 (1,8 - 10,4 nmol/l)

>

> > > > Ferritin 67 (30 - 250 m g/L)

>

> > > > S-Iron 21.8 (9 - 34 m mol/L)

>

> > > > Transferrin 2.4 (2 - 4 g/L)

>

> > > > Transferrin saturation 37 (15 - 57%)

>

> > > > TIBC 59 (49-83 umol/L)

>

> > > > Vitamin B12 426 (160-800 pmol/L)

>

> > > > FS-Glucose 5.0 (Serum 4.0 - 6,0 mmol/L)

>

> > > > S-Aldosterone - In process

>

> > > > S-Dihydrotestosteron - In process

>

> > > > S-rT3 - In process

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Anything that stands out? I question

> Testosterone

>

> > (low), Estradiol (high), and B12 (low).

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have

> been

>

> > removed]

>

> > > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

March 23, 2011

I try to be at my best with Tom he is very sick I know how he feels and don't

want to upset him.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: hardasnails1973 <hardasnails1973@...>

> Subject: Re: Latest hormone labs..

>

> Date: Wednesday, March 23, 2011, 3:57 PM

> Just wanted to clarify

> things..Obviously the language barrier was broken LOL

>

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 11th of March 2011:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Free T3 5.8 (3.6 - 8.3

> pmol/l)

> > > > > > > Free T4 9.4 (8 - 20 pmol/l)

> > > > > > > TSH 0.72 (0.5 - 3.6 mIE/l)

> > > > > > > Anti-TPO <10 (< 35

> kIE/l)

> > > > > > > S-Testosterone 18.3 (8,0 -

> 35,0 nmol/l)

> > > - Did

> > > > > not

> > > > > > apply gel/DHEA in the evening 2-3

> evenings

> > > before

> > > > > drawing

> > > > > > blood. Applied gel/took DHEA as

> normal in

> > > the

> > > > > mornings. But

> > > > > > did NOT apply T-gel before drawing

> blood,

> > > only right

> > > > > after.

> > > > > > > Free Testosterone Index 8.0

> (3,0

> > > ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚Â¬ " 14,7)

> > > > > NOTE:

> > > > > > FTI = testosterone (nmol/l) x

> 10/SHBG

> > > (nmol/l) =

> > > > > result.

> > > > > > > Estradiol 0.13 (0,06 - 0,14

> nmol/l)

> > > > > > > SHBG 23 (8 - 60 nmol/l)

> > > > > > > S-Cortisol 665 (138 - 690

> nmol/l) -

> > > 30-60 mins

> > > > > after

> > > > > > 10 mg HC.

> > > > > > > FSH 1.6 (<12,0 IE/l)

> > > > > > > LH 3.2 (<12,0 IE/l)

> > > > > > > Progesterone 1.4 (< 3,0

> nmol/l)

> > > > > > > OH-progesterone 3.8 (1,8 -

> 10,4

> > > nmol/l)

> > > > > > > Ferritin 67 (30 - 250 m g/L)

> > > > > > > S-Iron 21.8 (9 - 34 m mol/L)

> > > > > > > Transferrin 2.4 (2 - 4 g/L)

> > > > > > > Transferrin saturation 37 (15

> - 57%)

> > > > > > > TIBC 59 (49-83 umol/L)

> > > > > > > Vitamin B12 426 (160-800

> pmol/L)

> > > > > > > FS-Glucose 5.0 (Serum 4.0 -

> 6,0

> > > mmol/L)

> > > > > > > S-Aldosterone - In process

> > > > > > > S-Dihydrotestosteron - In

> process

> > > > > > > S-rT3 - In process

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Anything that stands out? I

> question

> > > > > Testosterone

> > > > > > (low), Estradiol (high), and B12

> (low).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this

> message have

> > > been

> > > > > removed]

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message

> have been

> > > removed]

> > > > > >

> ------------------------------------

> > > > > >

March 23, 2011

I still can't understand how it's possible to not get what I wrote!

Sendt fra min iPhone

Den 23. mars 2011 kl. 20.57 skrev " hardasnails1973 "

<hardasnails1973@...>:

Just wanted to clarify things..Obviously the language barrier was broken LOL

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 11th of March 2011:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Free T3 5.8 (3.6 - 8.3 pmol/l)

> > > > > > Free T4 9.4 (8 - 20 pmol/l)

> > > > > > TSH 0.72 (0.5 - 3.6 mIE/l)

> > > > > > Anti-TPO <10 (< 35 kIE/l)

> > > > > > S-Testosterone 18.3 (8,0 - 35,0 nmol/l)

> > - Did

> > > > not

> > > > > apply gel/DHEA in the evening 2-3 evenings

> > before

> > > > drawing

> > > > > blood. Applied gel/took DHEA as normal in

> > the

> > > > mornings. But

> > > > > did NOT apply T-gel before drawing blood,

> > only right

> > > > after.

> > > > > > Free Testosterone Index 8.0 (3,0

> > ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚Â¬ " 14,7)

> > > > NOTE:

> > > > > FTI = testosterone (nmol/l) x 10/SHBG

> > (nmol/l) =

> > > > result.

> > > > > > Estradiol 0.13 (0,06 - 0,14 nmol/l)

> > > > > > SHBG 23 (8 - 60 nmol/l)

> > > > > > S-Cortisol 665 (138 - 690 nmol/l) -

> > 30-60 mins

> > > > after

> > > > > 10 mg HC.

> > > > > > FSH 1.6 (<12,0 IE/l)

> > > > > > LH 3.2 (<12,0 IE/l)

> > > > > > Progesterone 1.4 (< 3,0 nmol/l)

> > > > > > OH-progesterone 3.8 (1,8 - 10,4

> > nmol/l)

> > > > > > Ferritin 67 (30 - 250 m g/L)

> > > > > > S-Iron 21.8 (9 - 34 m mol/L)

> > > > > > Transferrin 2.4 (2 - 4 g/L)

> > > > > > Transferrin saturation 37 (15 - 57%)

> > > > > > TIBC 59 (49-83 umol/L)

> > > > > > Vitamin B12 426 (160-800 pmol/L)

> > > > > > FS-Glucose 5.0 (Serum 4.0 - 6,0

> > mmol/L)

> > > > > > S-Aldosterone - In process

> > > > > > S-Dihydrotestosteron - In process

> > > > > > S-rT3 - In process

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Anything that stands out? I question

> > > > Testosterone

> > > > > (low), Estradiol (high), and B12 (low).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have

> > been

> > > > removed]

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> > > > >

> > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > >

March 23, 2011

I will do what Hertoghe told me to next time. I just messed up this time taking

it as I normally do. Next time I will take it in the evening.

Sendt fra min iPhone

Den 23. mars 2011 kl. 18.14 skrev philip georgian <pmgamer18@...>:

I am not telling you to stop your DHEA just telling you what my Dr. told me. On

DHEA pills it converted into Estradiol drove my levels up on labs so I took more

Arimidex and would end up going to low. So my Dr. told me stop taking DHEA a few

days before doing my labs. Doing this fixed my problem of looking to high on

Estradiol and taking more Arimidex when I did not need more.

When we talk about what we do for our selfs we are not telling you to do the

same you do what your Dr. tells you no matter what anyone hear says.

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> > >

>

> > > Once more, as I hate misunderstandings:

>

> > >

>

> > > I normally take DHEA capsules and apply

> Testosterone

>

> > gel in the Moring around 10-11 am. This is when I wake

> up. I

>

> > know it's a little late but that's how it is for now.

>

> > >

>

> > > For testing, Dr. Hertoghe, my hormone doctor,

> tells me

>

> > to apply the Testosterone gel and to take the DHEA

> capsules

>

> > in the EVENING instead of in the morning, in the 3

> days

>

> > before drawing blood. He says this is the best way to

> get

>

> > accurate results. Probably cause it's 12 hours from

>

> > application/ingestion instead of 24 hrs when I do my

> meds in

>

> > the morning.

>

> > >

>

> > > However this time, I applied the Testosterone gel

> and

>

> > took the DHEA caps as I normally do: In the morning.

> Of

>

> > course, I drew blood BEFORE applying the Testosterone

> gel

>

> > and taking my DHEA capsules the morning of the blood

> draw.

>

> > >

>

> > > Are we clear now Phil? Do you understand? From

> the

>

> > point I put on the Testosterone gel and took my last

> DHEA

>

> > capsule before the blood draw at 11 am, it went

> exactly 24

>

> > hours.

>

> > >

>

> > > I would appreciate further comments on this.

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > Sendt fra min iPhone

>

> > >

>

> > > Den 22. mars 2011 kl. 14.49 skrev

> " hardasnails1973 "

>

> > <hardasnails1973@...>:

>

> > >

>

> > > always apply T gel before test 3 hours prior to

> get

>

> > peak as well as your e2, not applying the DHEA gel 2-3

> night

>

> > prior will result in giving false readings of e2

> readings

>

> > because it may being converted into e2. b-12 low is

> probably

>

> > due to malabsorption issues which makes sense. If b-12

> is

>

> > serum and it is low then you have severe absorption

> issues.

>

> > IMO these are erraneous and in accurate results for

>

> > Testosternoe and e2.

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > 11th of March 2011:

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Free T3 5.8 (3.6 - 8.3 pmol/l)

>

> > > > Free T4 9.4 (8 - 20 pmol/l)

>

> > > > TSH 0.72 (0.5 - 3.6 mIE/l)

>

> > > > Anti-TPO <10 (< 35 kIE/l)

>

> > > > S-Testosterone 18.3 (8,0 - 35,0 nmol/l) -

> Did not

>

> > apply gel/DHEA in the evening 2-3 evenings before

> drawing

>

> > blood. Applied gel/took DHEA as normal in the

> mornings. But

>

> > did NOT apply T-gel before drawing blood, only right

> after.

>

> > > > Free Testosterone Index 8.0 (3,0

> ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬ "

>

> > 14,7) NOTE: FTI = testosterone (nmol/l) x 10/SHBG

> (nmol/l) =

>

> > result.

>

> > > > Estradiol 0.13 (0,06 - 0,14 nmol/l)

>

> > > > SHBG 23 (8 - 60 nmol/l)

>

> > > > S-Cortisol 665 (138 - 690 nmol/l) - 30-60

> mins

>

> > after 10 mg HC.

>

> > > > FSH 1.6 (<12,0 IE/l)

>

> > > > LH 3.2 (<12,0 IE/l)

>

> > > > Progesterone 1.4 (< 3,0 nmol/l)

>

> > > > OH-progesterone 3.8 (1,8 - 10,4 nmol/l)

>

> > > > Ferritin 67 (30 - 250 m g/L)

>

> > > > S-Iron 21.8 (9 - 34 m mol/L)

>

> > > > Transferrin 2.4 (2 - 4 g/L)

>

> > > > Transferrin saturation 37 (15 - 57%)

>

> > > > TIBC 59 (49-83 umol/L)

>

> > > > Vitamin B12 426 (160-800 pmol/L)

>

> > > > FS-Glucose 5.0 (Serum 4.0 - 6,0 mmol/L)

>

> > > > S-Aldosterone - In process

>

> > > > S-Dihydrotestosteron - In process

>

> > > > S-rT3 - In process

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Anything that stands out? I question

> Testosterone

>

> > (low), Estradiol (high), and B12 (low).

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have

> been

>

> > removed]

>

> > > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

March 24, 2011

I don't know but don't worry about it we got it right now.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: <gibcast@...>

> Subject: Re: Re: Latest hormone labs..

> " " < >

> Date: Wednesday, March 23, 2011, 6:34 PM

> I still can't understand how it's

> possible to not get what I wrote!

>

> Sendt fra min iPhone

>

> Den 23. mars 2011 kl. 20.57 skrev " hardasnails1973 "

<hardasnails1973@...>:

>

> Just wanted to clarify things..Obviously the language

> barrier was broken LOL

>

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 11th of March 2011:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Free T3 5.8 (3.6 - 8.3

> pmol/l)

> > > > > > > Free T4 9.4 (8 - 20 pmol/l)

> > > > > > > TSH 0.72 (0.5 - 3.6 mIE/l)

> > > > > > > Anti-TPO <10 (< 35

> kIE/l)

> > > > > > > S-Testosterone 18.3 (8,0 -

> 35,0 nmol/l)

> > > - Did

> > > > > not

> > > > > > apply gel/DHEA in the evening 2-3

> evenings

> > > before

> > > > > drawing

> > > > > > blood. Applied gel/took DHEA as

> normal in

> > > the

> > > > > mornings. But

> > > > > > did NOT apply T-gel before drawing

> blood,

> > > only right

> > > > > after.

> > > > > > > Free Testosterone Index 8.0

> (3,0

> > > ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚Â¬ " 14,7)

> > > > > NOTE:

> > > > > > FTI = testosterone (nmol/l) x

> 10/SHBG

> > > (nmol/l) =

> > > > > result.

> > > > > > > Estradiol 0.13 (0,06 - 0,14

> nmol/l)

> > > > > > > SHBG 23 (8 - 60 nmol/l)

> > > > > > > S-Cortisol 665 (138 - 690

> nmol/l) -

> > > 30-60 mins

> > > > > after

> > > > > > 10 mg HC.

> > > > > > > FSH 1.6 (<12,0 IE/l)

> > > > > > > LH 3.2 (<12,0 IE/l)

> > > > > > > Progesterone 1.4 (< 3,0

> nmol/l)

> > > > > > > OH-progesterone 3.8 (1,8 -

> 10,4

> > > nmol/l)

> > > > > > > Ferritin 67 (30 - 250 m g/L)

> > > > > > > S-Iron 21.8 (9 - 34 m mol/L)

> > > > > > > Transferrin 2.4 (2 - 4 g/L)

> > > > > > > Transferrin saturation 37 (15

> - 57%)

> > > > > > > TIBC 59 (49-83 umol/L)

> > > > > > > Vitamin B12 426 (160-800

> pmol/L)

> > > > > > > FS-Glucose 5.0 (Serum 4.0 -

> 6,0

> > > mmol/L)

> > > > > > > S-Aldosterone - In process

> > > > > > > S-Dihydrotestosteron - In

> process

> > > > > > > S-rT3 - In process

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Anything that stands out? I

> question

> > > > > Testosterone

> > > > > > (low), Estradiol (high), and B12

> (low).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this

> message have

> > > been

> > > > > removed]

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message

> have been

> > > removed]

> > > > > >

> ------------------------------------

> > > > > >

March 24, 2011

When I was on Gels my Dr. told me don't put on the gel do labs in the morning

first. I would forget and put on the gel and my labs would be why over the top

of the range. With Gels like Androgel it stores just under your skin and if you

do the gel first then labs before 6 hrs. are up it can spike up your labs big

time.

So we are not perfect and mess up from time to time.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > Once more, as I hate misunderstandings:

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > I normally take DHEA capsules and apply

> > Testosterone

> >

> > > gel in the Moring around 10-11 am. This is when I

> wake

> > up. I

> >

> > > know it's a little late but that's how it is for

> now.

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > For testing, Dr. Hertoghe, my hormone

> doctor,

> > tells me

> >

> > > to apply the Testosterone gel and to take the

> DHEA

> > capsules

> >

> > > in the EVENING instead of in the morning, in the

> 3

> > days

> >

> > > before drawing blood. He says this is the best

> way to

> > get

> >

> > > accurate results. Probably cause it's 12 hours

> from

> >

> > > application/ingestion instead of 24 hrs when I do

> my

> > meds in

> >

> > > the morning.

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > However this time, I applied the

> Testosterone gel

> > and

> >

> > > took the DHEA caps as I normally do: In the

> morning.

> > Of

> >

> > > course, I drew blood BEFORE applying the

> Testosterone

> > gel

> >

> > > and taking my DHEA capsules the morning of the

> blood

> > draw.

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > Are we clear now Phil? Do you understand?

> From

> > the

> >

> > > point I put on the Testosterone gel and took my

> last

> > DHEA

> >

> > > capsule before the blood draw at 11 am, it went

> > exactly 24

> >

> > > hours.

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > I would appreciate further comments on

> this.

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > Sendt fra min iPhone

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > Den 22. mars 2011 kl. 14.49 skrev

> > " hardasnails1973 "

> >

> > > <hardasnails1973@...>:

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > always apply T gel before test 3 hours prior

> to

> > get

> >

> > > peak as well as your e2, not applying the DHEA

> gel 2-3

> > night

> >

> > > prior will result in giving false readings of e2

> > readings

> >

> > > because it may being converted into e2. b-12 low

> is

> > probably

> >

> > > due to malabsorption issues which makes sense. If

> b-12

> > is

> >

> > > serum and it is low then you have severe

> absorption

> > issues.

> >

> > > IMO these are erraneous and in accurate results

> for

> >

> > > Testosternoe and e2.

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > > > > 11th of March 2011:

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > > > > Free T3 5.8 (3.6 - 8.3 pmol/l)

> >

> > > > > Free T4 9.4 (8 - 20 pmol/l)

> >

> > > > > TSH 0.72 (0.5 - 3.6 mIE/l)

> >

> > > > > Anti-TPO <10 (< 35 kIE/l)

> >

> > > > > S-Testosterone 18.3 (8,0 - 35,0 nmol/l)

> -

> > Did not

> >

> > > apply gel/DHEA in the evening 2-3 evenings

> before

> > drawing

> >

> > > blood. Applied gel/took DHEA as normal in the

> > mornings. But

> >

> > > did NOT apply T-gel before drawing blood, only

> right

> > after.

> >

> > > > > Free Testosterone Index 8.0 (3,0

> > ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬ "

> >

> > > 14,7) NOTE: FTI = testosterone (nmol/l) x

> 10/SHBG

> > (nmol/l) =

> >

> > > result.

> >

> > > > > Estradiol 0.13 (0,06 - 0,14 nmol/l)

> >

> > > > > SHBG 23 (8 - 60 nmol/l)

> >

> > > > > S-Cortisol 665 (138 - 690 nmol/l) -

> 30-60

> > mins

> >

> > > after 10 mg HC.

> >

> > > > > FSH 1.6 (<12,0 IE/l)

> >

> > > > > LH 3.2 (<12,0 IE/l)

> >

> > > > > Progesterone 1.4 (< 3,0 nmol/l)

> >

> > > > > OH-progesterone 3.8 (1,8 - 10,4

> nmol/l)

> >

> > > > > Ferritin 67 (30 - 250 m g/L)

> >

> > > > > S-Iron 21.8 (9 - 34 m mol/L)

> >

> > > > > Transferrin 2.4 (2 - 4 g/L)

> >

> > > > > Transferrin saturation 37 (15 - 57%)

> >

> > > > > TIBC 59 (49-83 umol/L)

> >

> > > > > Vitamin B12 426 (160-800 pmol/L)

> >

> > > > > FS-Glucose 5.0 (Serum 4.0 - 6,0

> mmol/L)

> >

> > > > > S-Aldosterone - In process

> >

> > > > > S-Dihydrotestosteron - In process

> >

> > > > > S-rT3 - In process

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > > > > Anything that stands out? I question

> > Testosterone

> >

> > > (low), Estradiol (high), and B12 (low).

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message

> have

> > been

> >

> > > removed]

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have

> been

> > removed]

> >

> > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > ------------------------------------

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

March 24, 2011

Yeah we do mistakes.

But I never put on the gel before I draw blood.

When I say I apply My gel in the morning I mean after the visit to the GP's

office.

Hertoghe says the best results appear when one applies the gel in the evening

before the blood draw. And take DHEA in the Evening as well.

Sendt fra min iPhone

Den 24. mars 2011 kl. 15.21 skrev philip georgian <pmgamer18@...>:

When I was on Gels my Dr. told me don't put on the gel do labs in the morning

first. I would forget and put on the gel and my labs would be why over the top

of the range. With Gels like Androgel it stores just under your skin and if you

do the gel first then labs before 6 hrs. are up it can spike up your labs big

time.

So we are not perfect and mess up from time to time.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > Once more, as I hate misunderstandings:

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > I normally take DHEA capsules and apply

> > Testosterone

> >

> > > gel in the Moring around 10-11 am. This is when I

> wake

> > up. I

> >

> > > know it's a little late but that's how it is for

> now.

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > For testing, Dr. Hertoghe, my hormone

> doctor,

> > tells me

> >

> > > to apply the Testosterone gel and to take the

> DHEA

> > capsules

> >

> > > in the EVENING instead of in the morning, in the

> 3

> > days

> >

> > > before drawing blood. He says this is the best

> way to

> > get

> >

> > > accurate results. Probably cause it's 12 hours

> from

> >

> > > application/ingestion instead of 24 hrs when I do

> my

> > meds in

> >

> > > the morning.

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > However this time, I applied the

> Testosterone gel

> > and

> >

> > > took the DHEA caps as I normally do: In the

> morning.

> > Of

> >

> > > course, I drew blood BEFORE applying the

> Testosterone

> > gel

> >

> > > and taking my DHEA capsules the morning of the

> blood

> > draw.

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > Are we clear now Phil? Do you understand?

> From

> > the

> >

> > > point I put on the Testosterone gel and took my

> last

> > DHEA

> >

> > > capsule before the blood draw at 11 am, it went

> > exactly 24

> >

> > > hours.

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > I would appreciate further comments on

> this.

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > Sendt fra min iPhone

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > Den 22. mars 2011 kl. 14.49 skrev

> > " hardasnails1973 "

> >

> > > <hardasnails1973@...>:

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > always apply T gel before test 3 hours prior

> to

> > get

> >

> > > peak as well as your e2, not applying the DHEA

> gel 2-3

> > night

> >

> > > prior will result in giving false readings of e2

> > readings

> >

> > > because it may being converted into e2. b-12 low

> is

> > probably

> >

> > > due to malabsorption issues which makes sense. If

> b-12

> > is

> >

> > > serum and it is low then you have severe

> absorption

> > issues.

> >

> > > IMO these are erraneous and in accurate results

> for

> >

> > > Testosternoe and e2.

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > > > > 11th of March 2011:

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > > > > Free T3 5.8 (3.6 - 8.3 pmol/l)

> >

> > > > > Free T4 9.4 (8 - 20 pmol/l)

> >

> > > > > TSH 0.72 (0.5 - 3.6 mIE/l)

> >

> > > > > Anti-TPO <10 (< 35 kIE/l)

> >

> > > > > S-Testosterone 18.3 (8,0 - 35,0 nmol/l)

> -

> > Did not

> >

> > > apply gel/DHEA in the evening 2-3 evenings

> before

> > drawing

> >

> > > blood. Applied gel/took DHEA as normal in the

> > mornings. But

> >

> > > did NOT apply T-gel before drawing blood, only

> right

> > after.

> >

> > > > > Free Testosterone Index 8.0 (3,0

> > ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬ "

> >

> > > 14,7) NOTE: FTI = testosterone (nmol/l) x

> 10/SHBG

> > (nmol/l) =

> >

> > > result.

> >

> > > > > Estradiol 0.13 (0,06 - 0,14 nmol/l)

> >

> > > > > SHBG 23 (8 - 60 nmol/l)

> >

> > > > > S-Cortisol 665 (138 - 690 nmol/l) -

> 30-60

> > mins

> >

> > > after 10 mg HC.

> >

> > > > > FSH 1.6 (<12,0 IE/l)

> >

> > > > > LH 3.2 (<12,0 IE/l)

> >

> > > > > Progesterone 1.4 (< 3,0 nmol/l)

> >

> > > > > OH-progesterone 3.8 (1,8 - 10,4

> nmol/l)

> >

> > > > > Ferritin 67 (30 - 250 m g/L)

> >

> > > > > S-Iron 21.8 (9 - 34 m mol/L)

> >

> > > > > Transferrin 2.4 (2 - 4 g/L)

> >

> > > > > Transferrin saturation 37 (15 - 57%)

> >

> > > > > TIBC 59 (49-83 umol/L)

> >

> > > > > Vitamin B12 426 (160-800 pmol/L)

> >

> > > > > FS-Glucose 5.0 (Serum 4.0 - 6,0

> mmol/L)

> >

> > > > > S-Aldosterone - In process

> >

> > > > > S-Dihydrotestosteron - In process

> >

> > > > > S-rT3 - In process

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > > > > Anything that stands out? I question

> > Testosterone

> >

> > > (low), Estradiol (high), and B12 (low).

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message

> have

> > been

> >

March 24, 2011

Yes I understand how you do this now he has you do it at night 3 days before

labs and you start back on gels after labs.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Once more, as I hate

> misunderstandings:

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > I normally take DHEA capsules and

> apply

> > > Testosterone

> > >

> > > > gel in the Moring around 10-11 am. This is

> when I

> > wake

> > > up. I

> > >

> > > > know it's a little late but that's how it is

> for

> > now.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > For testing, Dr. Hertoghe, my hormone

> > doctor,

> > > tells me

> > >

> > > > to apply the Testosterone gel and to take

> the

> > DHEA

> > > capsules

> > >

> > > > in the EVENING instead of in the morning, in

> the

> > 3

> > > days

> > >

> > > > before drawing blood. He says this is the

> best

> > way to

> > > get

> > >

> > > > accurate results. Probably cause it's 12

> hours

> > from

> > >

> > > > application/ingestion instead of 24 hrs when

> I do

> > my

> > > meds in

> > >

> > > > the morning.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > However this time, I applied the

> > Testosterone gel

> > > and

> > >

> > > > took the DHEA caps as I normally do: In the

> > morning.

> > > Of

> > >

> > > > course, I drew blood BEFORE applying the

> > Testosterone

> > > gel

> > >

> > > > and taking my DHEA capsules the morning of

> the

> > blood

> > > draw.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Are we clear now Phil? Do you

> understand?

> > From

> > > the

> > >

> > > > point I put on the Testosterone gel and took

> my

> > last

> > > DHEA

> > >

> > > > capsule before the blood draw at 11 am, it

> went

> > > exactly 24

> > >

> > > > hours.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > I would appreciate further comments on

> > this.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Sendt fra min iPhone

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Den 22. mars 2011 kl. 14.49 skrev

> > > " hardasnails1973 "

> > >

> > > > <hardasnails1973@...>:

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > always apply T gel before test 3 hours

> prior

> > to

> > > get

> > >

> > > > peak as well as your e2, not applying the

> DHEA

> > gel 2-3

> > > night

> > >

> > > > prior will result in giving false readings

> of e2

> > > readings

> > >

> > > > because it may being converted into e2. b-12

> low

> > is

> > > probably

> > >

> > > > due to malabsorption issues which makes

> sense. If

> > b-12

> > > is

> > >

> > > > serum and it is low then you have severe

> > absorption

> > > issues.

> > >

> > > > IMO these are erraneous and in accurate

> results

> > for

> > >

> > > > Testosternoe and e2.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > 11th of March 2011:

> > >

> > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > Free T3 5.8 (3.6 - 8.3 pmol/l)

> > >

> > > > > > Free T4 9.4 (8 - 20 pmol/l)

> > >

> > > > > > TSH 0.72 (0.5 - 3.6 mIE/l)

> > >

> > > > > > Anti-TPO <10 (< 35 kIE/l)

> > >

> > > > > > S-Testosterone 18.3 (8,0 - 35,0

> nmol/l)

> > -

> > > Did not

> > >

> > > > apply gel/DHEA in the evening 2-3 evenings

> > before

> > > drawing

> > >

> > > > blood. Applied gel/took DHEA as normal in

> the

> > > mornings. But

> > >

> > > > did NOT apply T-gel before drawing blood,

> only

> > right

> > > after.

> > >

> > > > > > Free Testosterone Index 8.0 (3,0

> > > ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬ "

> > >

> > > > 14,7) NOTE: FTI = testosterone (nmol/l) x

> > 10/SHBG

> > > (nmol/l) =

> > >

> > > > result.

> > >

> > > > > > Estradiol 0.13 (0,06 - 0,14

> nmol/l)

> > >

> > > > > > SHBG 23 (8 - 60 nmol/l)

> > >

> > > > > > S-Cortisol 665 (138 - 690 nmol/l)

> -

> > 30-60

> > > mins

> > >

> > > > after 10 mg HC.

> > >

> > > > > > FSH 1.6 (<12,0 IE/l)

> > >

> > > > > > LH 3.2 (<12,0 IE/l)

> > >

> > > > > > Progesterone 1.4 (< 3,0

> nmol/l)

> > >

> > > > > > OH-progesterone 3.8 (1,8 - 10,4

> > nmol/l)

> > >

> > > > > > Ferritin 67 (30 - 250 m g/L)

> > >

> > > > > > S-Iron 21.8 (9 - 34 m mol/L)

> > >

> > > > > > Transferrin 2.4 (2 - 4 g/L)

> > >

> > > > > > Transferrin saturation 37 (15 -

> 57%)

> > >

> > > > > > TIBC 59 (49-83 umol/L)

> > >

> > > > > > Vitamin B12 426 (160-800 pmol/L)

> > >

> > > > > > FS-Glucose 5.0 (Serum 4.0 - 6,0

> > mmol/L)

> > >

> > > > > > S-Aldosterone - In process

> > >

> > > > > > S-Dihydrotestosteron - In process

> > >

> > > > > > S-rT3 - In process

> > >

> > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > Anything that stands out? I

> question

> > > Testosterone

> > >

> > > > (low), Estradiol (high), and B12 (low).

> > >

> > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this

> message

> > have

> > > been

> > >

>

March 24, 2011

Exactly, I never stop anything, just take it late PM instead of AM. That's what

Hertoghe wants!

But this time Ididnt follow his orders:

What do you think of my latest labs done when taking everything in the AM like I

always do? Though I did not take anything til after the blood was drawn that

morning. As a result: Blood was drawn 24 hrs after applying T-gel and taking my

DHEA cap.

Sendt fra min iPhone

Den 24. mars 2011 kl. 16.00 skrev philip georgian <pmgamer18@...>:

Yes I understand how you do this now he has you do it at night 3 days before

labs and you start back on gels after labs.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Once more, as I hate

> misunderstandings:

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > I normally take DHEA capsules and

> apply

> > > Testosterone

> > >

> > > > gel in the Moring around 10-11 am. This is

> when I

> > wake

> > > up. I

> > >

> > > > know it's a little late but that's how it is

> for

> > now.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > For testing, Dr. Hertoghe, my hormone

> > doctor,

> > > tells me

> > >

> > > > to apply the Testosterone gel and to take

> the

> > DHEA

> > > capsules

> > >

> > > > in the EVENING instead of in the morning, in

> the

> > 3

> > > days

> > >

> > > > before drawing blood. He says this is the

> best

> > way to

> > > get

> > >

> > > > accurate results. Probably cause it's 12

> hours

> > from

> > >

> > > > application/ingestion instead of 24 hrs when

> I do

> > my

> > > meds in

> > >

> > > > the morning.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > However this time, I applied the

> > Testosterone gel

> > > and

> > >

> > > > took the DHEA caps as I normally do: In the

> > morning.

> > > Of

> > >

> > > > course, I drew blood BEFORE applying the

> > Testosterone

> > > gel

> > >

> > > > and taking my DHEA capsules the morning of

> the

> > blood

> > > draw.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Are we clear now Phil? Do you

> understand?

> > From

> > > the

> > >

> > > > point I put on the Testosterone gel and took

> my

> > last

> > > DHEA

> > >

> > > > capsule before the blood draw at 11 am, it

> went

> > > exactly 24

> > >

> > > > hours.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > I would appreciate further comments on

> > this.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Sendt fra min iPhone

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Den 22. mars 2011 kl. 14.49 skrev

> > > " hardasnails1973 "

> > >

> > > > <hardasnails1973@...>:

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > always apply T gel before test 3 hours

> prior

> > to

> > > get

> > >

> > > > peak as well as your e2, not applying the

> DHEA

> > gel 2-3

> > > night

> > >

> > > > prior will result in giving false readings

> of e2

> > > readings

> > >

> > > > because it may being converted into e2. b-12

> low

> > is

> > > probably

> > >

> > > > due to malabsorption issues which makes

> sense. If

> > b-12

> > > is

> > >

> > > > serum and it is low then you have severe

> > absorption

> > > issues.

March 24, 2011

I feel your Estradiol levels are very high but not sure your units are not like

mine and I can't find a converter if you can convert them into pg/ml or pmol/L

your good at around 20 pg/ml or at around 74 pmol/l.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > Once more, as I hate

> > misunderstandings:

> > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > I normally take DHEA capsules and

> > apply

> > > > Testosterone

> > > >

> > > > > gel in the Moring around 10-11 am. This

> is

> > when I

> > > wake

> > > > up. I

> > > >

> > > > > know it's a little late but that's how

> it is

> > for

> > > now.

> > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > For testing, Dr. Hertoghe, my

> hormone

> > > doctor,

> > > > tells me

> > > >

> > > > > to apply the Testosterone gel and to

> take

> > the

> > > DHEA

> > > > capsules

> > > >

> > > > > in the EVENING instead of in the

> morning, in

> > the

> > > 3

> > > > days

> > > >

> > > > > before drawing blood. He says this is

> the

> > best

> > > way to

> > > > get

> > > >

> > > > > accurate results. Probably cause it's

> 12

> > hours

> > > from

> > > >

> > > > > application/ingestion instead of 24 hrs

> when

> > I do

> > > my

> > > > meds in

> > > >

> > > > > the morning.

> > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > However this time, I applied the

> > > Testosterone gel

> > > > and

> > > >

> > > > > took the DHEA caps as I normally do: In

> the

> > > morning.

> > > > Of

> > > >

> > > > > course, I drew blood BEFORE applying

> the

> > > Testosterone

> > > > gel

> > > >

> > > > > and taking my DHEA capsules the morning

> of

> > the

> > > blood

> > > > draw.

> > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > Are we clear now Phil? Do you

> > understand?

> > > From

> > > > the

> > > >

> > > > > point I put on the Testosterone gel and

> took

> > my

> > > last

> > > > DHEA

> > > >

> > > > > capsule before the blood draw at 11 am,

> it

> > went

> > > > exactly 24

> > > >

> > > > > hours.

> > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > I would appreciate further

> comments on

> > > this.

> > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > Sendt fra min iPhone

> > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > Den 22. mars 2011 kl. 14.49 skrev

> > > > " hardasnails1973 "

> > > >

> > > > > <hardasnails1973@...>:

> > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > always apply T gel before test 3

> hours

> > prior

> > > to

> > > > get

> > > >

> > > > > peak as well as your e2, not applying

> the

> > DHEA

> > > gel 2-3

> > > > night

> > > >

> > > > > prior will result in giving false

> readings

> > of e2

> > > > readings

> > > >

> > > > > because it may being converted into e2.

> b-12

> > low

> > > is

> > > > probably

> > > >

> > > > > due to malabsorption issues which

> makes

> > sense. If

> > > b-12

> > > > is

> > > >

> > > > > serum and it is low then you have

> severe

> > > absorption

> > > > issues.

>

March 24, 2011

The concersion factor between E2 pg/ml and E2 pmol/l is 3.671 which beings the

pg/ml to 47, if you multiply 0.13 pg/ml with 3.671. Which is too high. (Not sure

if I should multiply or divide. If I divide, the result is 35 - Stilltoo high!)

I am guessing it would have been even higher if I had for as Hertoghe tells me

to do: Put on the gel/Take DHEA in the evenings before the draw.

I feel crummy!

T.

Sendt fra min iPhone

Den 24. mars 2011 kl. 17.45 skrev philip georgian <pmgamer18@...>:

I feel your Estradiol levels are very high but not sure your units are not like

mine and I can't find a converter if you can convert them into pg/ml or pmol/L

your good at around 20 pg/ml or at around 74 pmol/l.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > Once more, as I hate

> > misunderstandings:

> > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > I normally take DHEA capsules and

> > apply

> > > > Testosterone

> > > >

> > > > > gel in the Moring around 10-11 am. This

> is

> > when I

> > > wake

> > > > up. I

> > > >

> > > > > know it's a little late but that's how

> it is

> > for

> > > now.

> > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > For testing, Dr. Hertoghe, my

> hormone

> > > doctor,

> > > > tells me

> > > >

> > > > > to apply the Testosterone gel and to

> take

> > the

> > > DHEA

> > > > capsules

> > > >

> > > > > in the EVENING instead of in the

> morning, in

> > the

> > > 3

> > > > days

> > > >

> > > > > before drawing blood. He says this is

> the

> > best

> > > way to

> > > > get

> > > >

> > > > > accurate results. Probably cause it's

> 12

> > hours

> > > from

> > > >

> > > > > application/ingestion instead of 24 hrs

> when

> > I do

> > > my

> > > > meds in

> > > >

> > > > > the morning.

> > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > However this time, I applied the

> > > Testosterone gel

> > > > and

> > > >

> > > > > took the DHEA caps as I normally do: In

> the

> > > morning.

> > > > Of

> > > >

> > > > > course, I drew blood BEFORE applying

> the

> > > Testosterone

> > > > gel

> > > >

> > > > > and taking my DHEA capsules the morning

> of

> > the

> > > blood

> > > > draw.

> > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > Are we clear now Phil? Do you

> > understand?

> > > From

> > > > the

> > > >

> > > > > point I put on the Testosterone gel and

> took

> > my

> > > last

> > > > DHEA

> > > >

> > > > > capsule before the blood draw at 11 am,

> it

> > went

> > > > exactly 24

> > > >

> > > > > hours.

> > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > I would appreciate further

> comments on

> > > this.

> > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > Sendt fra min iPhone

> > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > Den 22. mars 2011 kl. 14.49 skrev

> > > > " hardasnails1973 "

> > > >

> > > > > <hardasnails1973@...>:

> > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > always apply T gel before test 3

> hours

> > prior

> > > to

> > > > get

> > > >

> > > > > peak as well as your e2, not applying

> the

> > DHEA

> > > gel 2-3

> > > > night

> > > >

> > > > > prior will result in giving false

> readings

> > of e2

> > > > readings

> > > >

> > > > > because it may being converted into e2.

> b-12

> > low

> > > is

> > > > probably

> > > >

> > > > > due to malabsorption issues which

> makes

> > sense. If

> > > b-12

> > > > is

> > > >

> > > > > serum and it is low then you have

> severe

> > > absorption

> > > > issues.

>

March 24, 2011

I don't remember what your Estradiol levels were on your last test with the

units. I know you were doing labs at 2 diff. labs and getting 2 diff. sets of

numbers in diff. units.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > Once more, as I hate

> > > misunderstandings:

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > I normally take DHEA capsules

> and

> > > apply

> > > > > Testosterone

> > > > >

> > > > > > gel in the Moring around 10-11 am.

> This

> > is

> > > when I

> > > > wake

> > > > > up. I

> > > > >

> > > > > > know it's a little late but that's

> how

> > it is

> > > for

> > > > now.

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > For testing, Dr. Hertoghe,

> my

> > hormone

> > > > doctor,

> > > > > tells me

> > > > >

> > > > > > to apply the Testosterone gel and

> to

> > take

> > > the

> > > > DHEA

> > > > > capsules

> > > > >

> > > > > > in the EVENING instead of in the

> > morning, in

> > > the

> > > > 3

> > > > > days

> > > > >

> > > > > > before drawing blood. He says this

> is

> > the

> > > best

> > > > way to

> > > > > get

> > > > >

> > > > > > accurate results. Probably cause

> it's

> > 12

> > > hours

> > > > from

> > > > >

> > > > > > application/ingestion instead of

> 24 hrs

> > when

> > > I do

> > > > my

> > > > > meds in

> > > > >

> > > > > > the morning.

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > However this time, I applied

> the

> > > > Testosterone gel

> > > > > and

> > > > >

> > > > > > took the DHEA caps as I normally

> do: In

> > the

> > > > morning.

> > > > > Of

> > > > >

> > > > > > course, I drew blood BEFORE

> applying

> > the

> > > > Testosterone

> > > > > gel

> > > > >

> > > > > > and taking my DHEA capsules the

> morning

> > of

> > > the

> > > > blood

> > > > > draw.

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > Are we clear now Phil? Do

> you

> > > understand?

> > > > From

> > > > > the

> > > > >

> > > > > > point I put on the Testosterone

> gel and

> > took

> > > my

> > > > last

> > > > > DHEA

> > > > >

> > > > > > capsule before the blood draw at

> 11 am,

> > it

> > > went

> > > > > exactly 24

> > > > >

> > > > > > hours.

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > I would appreciate further

> > comments on

> > > > this.

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > Sendt fra min iPhone

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > Den 22. mars 2011 kl. 14.49

> skrev

> > > > > " hardasnails1973 "

> > > > >

> > > > > > <hardasnails1973@...>:

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > always apply T gel before

> test 3

> > hours

> > > prior

> > > > to

> > > > > get

> > > > >

> > > > > > peak as well as your e2, not

> applying

> > the

> > > DHEA

> > > > gel 2-3

> > > > > night

> > > > >

> > > > > > prior will result in giving false

> > readings

> > > of e2

> > > > > readings

> > > > >

> > > > > > because it may being converted

> into e2.

> > b-12

> > > low

> > > > is

> > > > > probably

> > > > >

> > > > > > due to malabsorption issues which

> > makes

> > > sense. If

> > > > b-12

> > > > > is

> > > > >

> > > > > > serum and it is low then you have

> > severe

> > > > absorption

> > > > > issues.

> >

March 24, 2011

Crap that was the conversion for omplassert not nmol! My Local Lab rund nmol for

E2 and I can't find a conversion table for E2 and nmol! Crap!!!

Anyway E2 is in the top range meaning it's too high. Right ????

Sendt fra min iPhone

Den 24. mars 2011 kl. 18.04 skrev <gibcast@...>:

The concersion factor between E2 pg/ml and E2 pmol/l is 3.671 which beings the

pg/ml to 47, if you multiply 0.13 pg/ml with 3.671. Which is too high. (Not sure

if I should multiply or divide. If I divide, the result is 35 - Stilltoo high!)

I am guessing it would have been even higher if I had for as Hertoghe tells me

to do: Put on the gel/Take DHEA in the evenings before the draw.

I feel crummy!

T.

Sendt fra min iPhone

Den 24. mars 2011 kl. 17.45 skrev philip georgian <pmgamer18@...>:

I feel your Estradiol levels are very high but not sure your units are not like

mine and I can't find a converter if you can convert them into pg/ml or pmol/L

your good at around 20 pg/ml or at around 74 pmol/l.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > Once more, as I hate

> > misunderstandings:

> > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > I normally take DHEA capsules and

> > apply

> > > > Testosterone

> > > >

> > > > > gel in the Moring around 10-11 am. This

> is

> > when I

March 24, 2011

Crap that was the conversion for omplassert not nmol! My Local Lab rund nmol for

E2 and I can't find a conversion table for E2 and nmol! Crap!!!

Anyway E2 is in the top range meaning it's too high. Right ????

Sendt fra min iPhone

Den 24. mars 2011 kl. 18.04 skrev <gibcast@...>:

The concersion factor between E2 pg/ml and E2 pmol/l is 3.671 which beings the

pg/ml to 47, if you multiply 0.13 pg/ml with 3.671. Which is too high. (Not sure

if I should multiply or divide. If I divide, the result is 35 - Stilltoo high!)

I am guessing it would have been even higher if I had for as Hertoghe tells me

to do: Put on the gel/Take DHEA in the evenings before the draw.

I feel crummy!

T.

Sendt fra min iPhone

Den 24. mars 2011 kl. 17.45 skrev philip georgian <pmgamer18@...>:

I feel your Estradiol levels are very high but not sure your units are not like

mine and I can't find a converter if you can convert them into pg/ml or pmol/L

your good at around 20 pg/ml or at around 74 pmol/l.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > Once more, as I hate

> > misunderstandings:

> > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > I normally take DHEA capsules and

> > apply

> > > > Testosterone

> > > >

> > > > > gel in the Moring around 10-11 am. This

> is

> > when I

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