Re: hCG and Secondary Hypogonadotropic Hypogonadism

[Guest guest]

I am wondering the same thing. My endo would not even discuss it.

Now I am on Androgel with the prospect of pea sized gonads down the road and the

5g of gel he is giving me does not seem to be doing the job.

>

> I am wondering why hCG isn't the first line treatment for acquired Secondary

Hypogonadism. It would seem to me that there are more advantages to using hCG

alone rather than starting T shots and the potential side effects such a blood

thickening. I've read studies where they were able to sustain for a significant

period T levels on hCG alone. Is it related to the cost of hCG vs T? I am now

on both and didn't start feeling better until I started the hCG. With both, I

am struggling to control my estradiol. I take .75mg Arimidex the days I take

hCG and T shots and then back off to .5mg on days I take no shots. I'd

personally like to stop or cut back the T and just see what the hCG brings my

levels to. Any comments?

>

> Joe

>

[Guest guest]

I just read the answer to this at the following link. Scroll down to HCG.

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/crisler/testosterone-replacement-therapy.h\

tm

>

> I am wondering why hCG isn't the first line treatment for acquired Secondary

Hypogonadism. It would seem to me that there are more advantages to using hCG

alone rather than starting T shots and the potential side effects such a blood

thickening. I've read studies where they were able to sustain for a significant

period T levels on hCG alone. Is it related to the cost of hCG vs T? I am now

on both and didn't start feeling better until I started the hCG. With both, I

am struggling to control my estradiol. I take .75mg Arimidex the days I take

hCG and T shots and then back off to .5mg on days I take no shots. I'd

personally like to stop or cut back the T and just see what the hCG brings my

levels to. Any comments?

>

> Joe

>

[Guest guest]

Testosterone replacement has been around for years and years and is considered

" proven " by the medical community.  Using HCG for secondary hypogonadism is

still somewhat experimental according to conventional medical wisdom.

I was able to get several measurements of my total testosterone at different

doses of Androgel and HCG. 

Androgel 7.5 g daily and no HCG - Total testosterone 486 (range 280-800) 

sensitive estradiol (E2) 21 (range 3-70)

Androgel 10 g daily plus HCG 250 IU every three days Total testosterone 1,070

(dose for one month)

Androgel 7.5 g daily plus HCG 250 IU every three days Total testosterone 967 

(dose for one month)

Androgel 5 g daily plus HCG 250 IU every three days Total testosterone 679 

(dose for one month)

At a total T level of 1,070, my HDL cholesterol dropped too low.  In addition,

there were other unfavorable changes to my blood lipids at that dose.  I'll

have my cholesterol retested in a couple of days to see what it is at the new

dosage regimen.

________________________________

From: Dale <etherial@...>

Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 11:26:35 PM

Subject: Re: hCG and Secondary Hypogonadotropic Hypogonadism

 

I just read the answer to this at the following link. Scroll down to HCG.

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/crisler/testosterone-replacement-therapy.h\

tm

>

> I am wondering why hCG isn't the first line treatment for acquired Secondary

Hypogonadism. It would seem to me that there are more advantages to using hCG

alone rather than starting T shots and the potential side effects such a blood

thickening. I've read studies where they were able to sustain for a significant

period T levels on hCG alone. Is it related to the cost of hCG vs T? I am now on

both and didn't start feeling better until I started the hCG. With both, I am

struggling to control my estradiol. I take .75mg Arimidex the days I take hCG

and T shots and then back off to .5mg on days I take no shots. I'd personally

like to stop or cut back the T and just see what the hCG brings my levels to.

Any comments?

>

> Joe

>

[Guest guest]

Joe I am playing with this now I am Secondary and I was on TRT 23 yrs before we

figured this out. I tried HCG only I did not like how I felt it's hard to put

in to words. And my Estradiol was still a big problem no better. If you use

more HCG then your testis can handle it will convert into Estradiol big time.

For yrs I needed more T a higher dose to keep my levels up and feel good but

with this came the higher levels of Estradol. I eat up the T as fast as I take

it.

Now I find out from others at Dr. 's forum men needing HGH do this and when

they add in HGH they can cut back on there dose of HCG and Testosterone.

The Growth Hormone helps heal the body and so dose Testosterone so with the

boost of HGH on can lower there T dose doing this there Estradiol comes down.

So here is was I was doing a Test C shot 80 mgs every 3 days and 400 IU's of HCG

the 2 days each in between my Test C shots.

Now on HGH I do 70 mgs every 3 days and I do 250 IU's of HCG the day before my

next Test C shot.

I feel good just started doing this a week ago when I do my next labs we will

see how they look if they are still up past 700 I will cut back on my Test C

shot to 60mgs every 3 days.

So far I am able to get by on less Arimidex was doing 1mg / day now doing .5 mgs

/ day.

As for why don't Dr.'s start men that are Secondary on HCG they don't know about

it. Dr. Shippen dose this Z an old member here did HCG only he was the

first one I talked to last I heard he is still doing this. Now that was about 6

yrs ago I know that are a lot of men doing this. But they are not here you will

find them at Dr. 's forum.

http://www.musclechatroom.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=2

Yet Dr. does not do this he has tried it many times and found men do better

on both.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: noonanjg <jgnoonan@...>

> Subject: hCG and Secondary Hypogonadotropic Hypogonadism

>

> Date: Monday, June 14, 2010, 8:26 PM

> I am wondering why hCG isn't the

> first line treatment for acquired Secondary

> Hypogonadism.  It would seem to me that there are more

> advantages to using hCG alone rather than starting T shots

> and the potential side effects such a blood

> thickening.  I've read studies where they were able to

> sustain for a significant period T levels on hCG

> alone.  Is it related to the cost of hCG vs T?  I

> am now on both and didn't start feeling better until I

> started the hCG.  With both, I am struggling to control

> my estradiol.  I take .75mg Arimidex the days I take

> hCG and T shots and then back off to .5mg on days I take no

> shots.  I'd personally like to stop or cut back the T

> and just see what the hCG brings my levels to.  Any

> comments?

>

> Joe

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks to all who responded. I think in the end we respond differently. Phil,

as you know I was on T injections (150mg a week) and felt awful even though my T

levels were in the 800-900 range. It wasn't until the HCG was introduced that I

felt much better and I think I will be able to back off the T some and perhaps

reduce some of the side effects. I've read a couple of studies on it and it

seems the biggest problem is over the long haul I may develop an LH

insensitivity that may reduce the positive effects of hCG. I think the Arimidex

regimen is getting close because I've had a full week of night time and morning

erections with taking .75 on shot days and .5 on non-shot days. My current

T/hCG regimen is 250UI of hCG on Tuesdays and Saturdays and 50mg of T on

Wednesdays and Sundays. I need to get labs done soon because I am approaching 6

weeks on the regimen. We'll see what they show.

Joe

>

> > From: noonanjg <jgnoonan@...>

> > Subject: hCG and Secondary Hypogonadotropic Hypogonadism

> >

> > Date: Monday, June 14, 2010, 8:26 PM

> > I am wondering why hCG isn't the

> > first line treatment for acquired Secondary

> > Hypogonadism.  It would seem to me that there are more

> > advantages to using hCG alone rather than starting T shots

> > and the potential side effects such a blood

> > thickening.  I've read studies where they were able to

> > sustain for a significant period T levels on hCG

> > alone.  Is it related to the cost of hCG vs T?  I

> > am now on both and didn't start feeling better until I

> > started the hCG.  With both, I am struggling to control

> > my estradiol.  I take .75mg Arimidex the days I take

> > hCG and T shots and then back off to .5mg on days I take no

> > shots.  I'd personally like to stop or cut back the T

> > and just see what the hCG brings my levels to.  Any

> > comments?

> >

> > Joe

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

It sure looks like your doing good I have been on HCG a long time and my Testis

are kicking out T big time most of the T on my labs are from my testis. Before

HCG my TT labs were 500 on HCG they went up to 1000 on avg. I stay between 850

to 950 TT and half of this level is from my testis on HCG.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: noonanjg <jgnoonan@...>

> Subject: Re: hCG and Secondary Hypogonadotropic Hypogonadism

>

> Date: Tuesday, June 15, 2010, 11:59 AM

> Thanks to all who responded.  I

> think in the end we respond differently.  Phil, as you

> know I was on T injections (150mg a week) and felt awful

> even though my T levels were in the 800-900 range.  It

> wasn't until the HCG was introduced that I felt much better

> and I think I will be able to back off the T some and

> perhaps reduce some of the side effects.  I've read a

> couple of studies on it and it seems the biggest problem is

> over the long haul I may develop an LH insensitivity that

> may reduce the positive effects of hCG.  I think the

> Arimidex regimen is getting close because I've had a full

> week of night time and morning erections with taking .75 on

> shot days and .5 on non-shot days.  My current T/hCG

> regimen is 250UI of hCG on Tuesdays and Saturdays and 50mg

> of T on Wednesdays and Sundays.  I need to get labs

> done soon because I am approaching 6 weeks on the

> regimen.  We'll see what they show.

>

> Joe

>

>

> >

> > > From: noonanjg <jgnoonan@...>

> > > Subject: hCG and Secondary

> Hypogonadotropic Hypogonadism

> > >

> > > Date: Monday, June 14, 2010, 8:26 PM

> > > I am wondering why hCG isn't the

> > > first line treatment for acquired Secondary

> > > Hypogonadism.  It would seem to me that there

> are more

> > > advantages to using hCG alone rather than

> starting T shots

> > > and the potential side effects such a blood

> > > thickening.  I've read studies where they were

> able to

> > > sustain for a significant period T levels on hCG

> > > alone.  Is it related to the cost of hCG vs T? 

> I

> > > am now on both and didn't start feeling better

> until I

> > > started the hCG.  With both, I am struggling to

> control

> > > my estradiol.  I take .75mg Arimidex the days I

> take

> > > hCG and T shots and then back off to .5mg on days

> I take no

> > > shots.  I'd personally like to stop or cut back

> the T

> > > and just see what the hCG brings my levels to. 

> Any

> > > comments?

> > >

> > > Joe

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >