Guest guest Posted August 6, 2010 Report Share Posted August 6, 2010 SOB this Dr. is wrong 300 mgs is a dam big shot all this is going to do is dive up your T levels way over the top much like Body builders do taking Steroids and most of that dam shot is going to convert into Estradiol now you have more to bring down. Yes If I were you and I am not a Dr. I would not do more T shots gels any kind. It is possable your Secondary but first you need to get your Estradiol levels down then redo labs. If your T levels are still low and your LH and FSH then do a Clomid Stim. test. Give this 4 weeks to get out of your body and I hope this dose shut you down I don't think it will. Don't look for an Endo they are no good for this problem take my word for it. And if you get your Estadiol levels down and you add even 200 points to your 400 + first set of labs your good normal. Go to the home page in the files section read Finding a New Male Hormone Dr. then look in the Database section for Dr.'s men here see if you can't find one try calling Compounding Pharmacy's and ask for he name and number of Dr.'s in your area the send Compounded T meds to. Call them and ask questions like how many men do they treat do you check to see why a man is low and do they check for high Estradiol and if so use Arimidex to get it down. And if a man is Secondary do they use HCG to treat him. http://www.collegepharmacy.com/menshealth/andropause.asp Dr. likes this Pharmacy. ANEWrx 523 Parkway View Drive Pittsburgh, PA 15205 877-788-8908 (ph) 877-788-8948 (fax) Monday - Friday (9am - 6pm) Saturday 10am - 2pm www.ANEWrx.com He is one of the best male Hormone Dr.'s we know of and has a Forum much like this one you can even post there and get more info then I gave you so you know your on the up and up with this. http://www.musclechatroom.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=2 Co-Moderator Phil > From: jtd1701d <jtd1701d@...> > Subject: Re: Androgel TRT > > Date: Friday, August 6, 2010, 5:57 PM > All my Endo did to rule out Secondary > was an MRI, which came back fine. Then they jumped to > the diagnosis that it was Primary. > > My doctor too also threw the line " stop concerning yourself > with the cause, and focus on treatment " . I REALLY do > not want to be on TRT if I dont want to be. > > Phil, Just another ? please. The Doctor already > injected me with 300 MG of T on Tuesday 8/3. And wants > to see me in two weeks for another Injection, then start > Androgel. > > After my own consideration and your advice, I will NOT get > that 2nd injection or start any TRT until the root cause is > found, and all options are exhausted. > > I want to start with a new, competent Endo. And just > for the sake of my past test results, and wanting a BASELINE > - I want to get my labs retaken. Again I was injected > on 8/3, How long do I have to wait for me to " normalize " so > I can go for another blood test workup, any idea? > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2010 Report Share Posted August 6, 2010 Jtd, you want to listen to what Phil is telling you here. He know this stuff inside out and those clueless endo doctors treating you don't. Ben there done that! Brett Re: Androgel TRT > > Date: Friday, August 6, 2010, 5:57 PM > All my Endo did to rule out Secondary > was an MRI, which came back fine. Then they jumped to > the diagnosis that it was Primary. > > My doctor too also threw the line " stop concerning yourself > with the cause, and focus on treatment " . I REALLY do > not want to be on TRT if I dont want to be. > > Phil, Just another ? please. The Doctor already > injected me with 300 MG of T on Tuesday 8/3. And wants > to see me in two weeks for another Injection, then start > Androgel. > > After my own consideration and your advice, I will NOT get > that 2nd injection or start any TRT until the root cause is > found, and all options are exhausted. > > I want to start with a new, competent Endo. And just > for the sake of my past test results, and wanting a BASELINE > - I want to get my labs retaken. Again I was injected > on 8/3, How long do I have to wait for me to " normalize " so > I can go for another blood test workup, any idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2010 Report Share Posted August 7, 2010 I got a call from Hardasnails last night we talk a lot he is a DA for a Dr. he told me your shots will shut you down but you will come back up in about 6 to 8 weeks if you don't do anymore shots or gels. He feels like I do that if you try to get your Estradiol levels down your Testosterone levels should come back up but don't do labs for 8 weeks to tell. The big shot you got will make your breast feel like this and it I feel is from the change in your Testosterone levels you should be fine you don't get Gyno that fast. What you need to do is get your Estradiol levels down then do labs in 8 weeks. If your Testosterone is still low with a lower LH and FSH and your Estradiol is less then 30 you need a Clomid Stim. test to see if your testis work. Then you need to be off this for a longer time to test Estradiol again so when you do your labs to see if your Testosterone levels went up on Clomid don't test Estadiol again. If your levels come back up on Clomid your Secondary and you would need to test all your hormones. I feel we got this in time and I hope it's just your higher Estradiol levels. Hardasnails did say if your levels come back up getting your Estradiol levels down you need to find out why your Estradiol levels are so high but one thing at a time. If you can't get a Dr. to give you Arimidex then buy some of this and take one tablet at dinner time. http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0 ==================================================== Overbeck hardasnails1973@... 484-868-0916 contact 1100 fayette st Conshohocken Internal medicine Male and female hormone disorders and metabolic disorders 610-828-2026 Co-Moderator Phil > From: jtd1701d <jtd1701d@...> > Subject: Re: Androgel TRT > > Date: Saturday, August 7, 2010, 10:43 AM > > > even to add more (****ing never ending) . since > that 300mg T shot, my left nipple has gotten slightly > swollen and is burning.... I read that is the initial signs > of gyno. could one shot cause this so > fast?? I am flipping that it may be gyno. I told > my Endo and she said it's unrelated. > > THIS IS SO MESSEF UP. I SHOULD OF NEVET OF GOTTEN > THAT T SHOT, I SHOULD OF FOLLOWED MY GUT!! sorry for > caps I'm just very very frustrated. Would gyno start > to quickly after the shot? (24-48 hours). I will NOT > Take any trt,buif it is gyno onset will my body return to > normal after a period of tine when I can " normalize " . > this sux - Jay > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > CSN > > > > > > > From: jtd1701d <jtd1701d@...> > > > Subject: Re: Androgel TRT > > > > > > Date: Friday, August 6, 2010, 5:57 PM > > > All my Endo did to rule out Secondary > > > was an MRI, which came back fine. Then they > jumped to > > > the diagnosis that it was Primary. > > > > > > My doctor too also threw the line " stop > concerning yourself > > > with the cause, and focus on treatment " . I > REALLY do > > > not want to be on TRT if I dont want to be. > > > > > > Phil, Just another ? please. The Doctor > already > > > injected me with 300 MG of T on Tuesday 8/3. > And wants > > > to see me in two weeks for another Injection, > then start > > > Androgel. > > > > > > After my own consideration and your advice, I > will NOT get > > > that 2nd injection or start any TRT until the > root cause is > > > found, and all options are exhausted. > > > > > > I want to start with a new, competent Endo. And > just > > > for the sake of my past test results, and wanting > a BASELINE > > > - I want to get my labs retaken. Again I was > injected > > > on 8/3, How long do I have to wait for me to > " normalize " so > > > I can go for another blood test workup, any > idea? > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2010 Report Share Posted August 8, 2010 Here is a copy of a file I make with the help of Hardasnails about DIM. Some of use were able to show the Dr. studies and papers other Dr.'s did about TRT and it helped. I still don't feel your breast problem is Estradiol it's the change in your Testosterone levels from this big shot. A lot of Dr.'s do give a big shot even Dr. for the first one to jump start you but never over 200 mgs. This shot will not hurt you back in the day when I first started on shots they gave me a 300mgs shot every 3 weeks but I never felt good on the I was up after the shot only to fall after a week. We have a links section and Files section on the left side of your screen at the home page full of studies and great info that the guys here find and put in there go there and read up. ==================================================== ALL ABOUT DIM. Sure here is a few links that are all about it. But there are a lot of Co.'s out there selling DIM that don't work well. Indolplex/DIM is the best it dose not get killed in your stomach when you take it. Diindolylmethane (DIM) is a stable indole found in cruciferous vegetables which promotes a beneficial estrogen metabolism in both women and men. http://www.dimfaq.com/index.htm in this link it's full of links about it. http://qualitycounts.com/fpdim.html http://www.jbc.org/content/278/23/21136.full If you have DIM in caps it's not Indolplex so to take this and to get it to work open the cap pore the DIM into a spoon add some Olive oil and take it this helps to keep it from getting killed in your stomach. The following is some links to where you can buy Indolplex/DIM. http://www.vitaglo.com/e5336.html http://www.vitacost.com/EnzymaticTherapyEstroBalancewithDIM/searchby-PN/searchte\ xt-dim http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0 http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0 http://www.estrobalance.net/ http://www.easyhealthzone.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=PP0108 & click=71 http://www.nbizz.com/longevityclinic/listings/213.html http://www.drugnatural.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD & Store_Code=DMOS & Product_\ Code=156497 http://www.smartbomb.com/itindo9.html?utm_source=mercent & utm_medium=shopcompare & \ utm_content=itindo9 & utm_campaign=mbsdb & mr:trackingCode=C6AEFBD1-E681-DE11-B7F3-0\ 019B9C043EB & mr:referralID=NA http://www.ritecare.com/cgi-bin/cart.pl?db=product_db.dat & category=natural+medic\ ine & method=any_words & search=iti-75336 http://www.naturamart.com/phytopharmica-pms-formula-with-indoplex-120-caps.html How to take Indolplex/DIM take one tablet 120 mgs at dinner time it can take 2 weeks to 2 months to get your Estradiol levels down it’s all about how high you are in your levels. What you need to do is get this down to about 20 pg/ml. When you get this low your night time and morning wood will come back so strong it will wake you up this means most of the time your at your best levels or what I call the sweet spot. Keep taking the DIM but if your wood stops your going down to low so just stop taking it. The day your wood comes back go back on the DIM but cut the tablet in half. If your Testosterone was tested and low but your not on TRT get it tested again you might find your levels came up some 200 to 300 points. http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174 Co-Moderator Phil > From: jtd1701d <jtd1701d@...> > Subject: Re: Androgel TRT > > Date: Sunday, August 8, 2010, 1:09 AM > Phil, and the rest - I cannot thank > you enough for all your efforts in advice and > research. > > Its been 5 days since that 300 T shot, and my left pec is > still tender and burning. I remember before injecting > me, the dr said after 7 days, my T levels will start to > drop, and I may feel like a " crash " . I hope at that > point, maybe this estrogen will start dropping as the T shot > wears off? > > I will ask my doctor for the meds, but I doubt it will > work, as I mentioned prior, the dr says my nipple issue has > NOTHING to do with the T shot. It makes me not even > want to deal with this SOB anymore, because I feel strongly > that the shot has everything todo with my tender/burning > nipple. But to make an appointment with a new > specialist takes months! I need some real answers > now! > > Phil, thank you again for your efforts, and speaking to > your DA friend, regarding my issue. The link you > provided for " Enzymatic Therapy, Pure Rip with DIM " ; > What exactly is this? Is it safe? I am betting > the dr will not perscribe Arimidex, and may need to order > this product. > > Without any meds, any idea on when this iritation will go > away? Its been 5 days and its getting quite annoying. > > > This forum is the ONLY group that seems to understand what > I am going through, my family and friends look at me as if I > am crazy. > > Thanks again - > > > > > > > > > > > From: jtd1701d <jtd1701d@> > > > > > Subject: Re: Androgel > TRT > > > > > > > > > > Date: Friday, August 6, 2010, 5:57 PM > > > > > All my Endo did to rule out Secondary > > > > > was an MRI, which came back fine. > Then they > > > jumped to > > > > > the diagnosis that it was Primary. > > > > > > > > > > My doctor too also threw the line > " stop > > > concerning yourself > > > > > with the cause, and focus on > treatment " . I > > > REALLY do > > > > > not want to be on TRT if I dont want to > be. > > > > > > > > > > Phil, Just another ? please. The > Doctor > > > already > > > > > injected me with 300 MG of T on Tuesday > 8/3. > > > And wants > > > > > to see me in two weeks for another > Injection, > > > then start > > > > > Androgel. > > > > > > > > > > After my own consideration and your > advice, I > > > will NOT get > > > > > that 2nd injection or start any TRT > until the > > > root cause is > > > > > found, and all options are exhausted. > > > > > > > > > > I want to start with a new, competent > Endo. And > > > just > > > > > for the sake of my past test results, > and wanting > > > a BASELINE > > > > > - I want to get my labs retaken. > Again I was > > > injected > > > > > on 8/3, How long do I have to wait for > me to > > > " normalize " so > > > > > I can go for another blood test workup, > any > > > idea? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2010 Report Share Posted August 8, 2010 The brand that has the word Indolplex in it works the best. Co-Moderator Phil > From: jtd1701d <jtd1701d@...> > Subject: Re: Androgel TRT > > Date: Sunday, August 8, 2010, 12:08 PM > > > > > I assumed the huge amount of Test was too much, hence body > conveting some into Estrogen (already at a the high end), > hence the nipple issue. this morning is now day 6, and > now now it looking slightly puffy. > > I certainly want to get my e2 investigated and down, but > first concern is this nipple. I do have OCD when it > comes to my health, and the thought of my puffy nipple being > permenent cannot escape me! I even had to dig up my > shrinks phone number to make an apppointment. > > I will look into this DIM product, its listed at the > viaminshoppe website, perhaps i'll just walk into the local > store and see if they have it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: jtd1701d > <jtd1701d@> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > Androgel > > > TRT > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Friday, August 6, 2010, > 5:57 PM > > > > > > > All my Endo did to rule out > Secondary > > > > > > > was an MRI, which came back > fine. > > > Then they > > > > > jumped to > > > > > > > the diagnosis that it was > Primary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My doctor too also threw the > line > > > " stop > > > > > concerning yourself > > > > > > > with the cause, and focus on > > > treatment " . I > > > > > REALLY do > > > > > > > not want to be on TRT if I > dont want to > > > be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Phil, Just another ? > please. The > > > Doctor > > > > > already > > > > > > > injected me with 300 MG of T > on Tuesday > > > 8/3. > > > > > And wants > > > > > > > to see me in two weeks for > another > > > Injection, > > > > > then start > > > > > > > Androgel. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After my own consideration > and your > > > advice, I > > > > > will NOT get > > > > > > > that 2nd injection or start > any TRT > > > until the > > > > > root cause is > > > > > > > found, and all options are > exhausted. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I want to start with a new, > competent > > > Endo. And > > > > > just > > > > > > > for the sake of my past test > results, > > > and wanting > > > > > a BASELINE > > > > > > > - I want to get my labs > retaken. > > > Again I was > > > > > injected > > > > > > > on 8/3, How long do I have to > wait for > > > me to > > > > > " normalize " so > > > > > > > I can go for another blood > test workup, > > > any > > > > > idea? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 I would not do this you need to get your Estradiol levels down and do more testing on them SERM type meds you need to be off the a dam long time to get good labs. Try the Indolplex/DIM first I still feel what your feeling is the change in your Testosterone levels from that big shot you got not Estradiol. Still getting your Estradiol down on DIM will help this. Co-Moderator Phil > From: jtd1701d <jtd1701d@...> > Subject: Re: Androgel TRT > > Date: Monday, August 9, 2010, 1:26 PM > I found this product, that claims to > be Tamoxifen. The site says its completely legal to > purchase w/out a prescription. some guy on another > forum says it can be sold without a prescription because > they brand these " chemicals " and not " drugs " and apparently > in FDA eyes, it differs with regulation...? > > take look does this look legit? > > Liquid Tamox 50mL 20mg/mL > Tamoxifen citrate is a SERM (Selective Estrogen Receptor > Modulator) and belongs to the group of sex hormones as an > anti-estrogen. > > http://www.ar-r.com/research-chemicals/serms/tamox-50ml-20mg-ml.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: jtd1701d > <jtd1701d@> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > Androgel TRT > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Friday, August 6, 2010, > 5:57 PM > > > > > > > All my Endo did to rule out > Secondary > > > > > > > was an MRI, which came back > fine. Then they jumped to > > > > > > > the diagnosis that it was > Primary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My doctor too also threw the > line " stop concerning yourself > > > > > > > with the cause, and focus on > treatment " . I REALLY do > > > > > > > not want to be on TRT if I > dont want to be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Phil, Just another ? > please. The Doctor already > > > > > > > injected me with 300 MG of T > on Tuesday 8/3. And wants > > > > > > > to see me in two weeks for > another Injection, then start > > > > > > > Androgel. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After my own consideration > and your advice, I will NOT get > > > > > > > that 2nd injection or start > any TRT until the root cause is > > > > > > > found, and all options are > exhausted. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I want to start with a new, > competent Endo. And just > > > > > > > for the sake of my past test > results, and wanting a BASELINE > > > > > > > - I want to get my labs > retaken. Again I was injected > > > > > > > on 8/3, How long do I have to > wait for me to " normalize " so > > > > > > > I can go for another blood > test workup, any idea? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 Great let me know how it goes with the Indoloplex/DIM guys here have good luck with it. I feel one is better off if they can keep there E2 levels down on DIM. You can try Zinc with Copper also it helps to lower E2 levels a little I take 2mgs of copper at noon and ZMA at bedtime. Co-Moderator Phil > From: jtd1701d <jtd1701d@...> > Subject: Re: Androgel TRT > > Date: Monday, August 9, 2010, 4:20 PM > i have ordered the product you > originally suggested phil (Indolplex/DIM), and it is > expected to arrive tomorrow > > I also went to my Urologist (good guy) and he completely > agree'd that the large T shot can certainly cause tenderness > to my nipple/breasts. He says just let it takes it > course, and it should start to flair down in a few more > days, as the injection peaks at about a week or so after > injection. > > thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: jtd1701d > > > <jtd1701d@> > > > > > > > > > Subject: > Re: > > > Androgel TRT > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Friday, > August 6, 2010, > > > 5:57 PM > > > > > > > > > All my Endo did to > rule out > > > Secondary > > > > > > > > > was an MRI, which > came back > > > fine. Then they jumped to > > > > > > > > > the diagnosis that > it was > > > Primary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My doctor too also > threw the > > > line " stop concerning yourself > > > > > > > > > with the cause, and > focus on > > > treatment " . I REALLY do > > > > > > > > > not want to be on > TRT if I > > > dont want to be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Phil, Just another > ? > > > please. The Doctor already > > > > > > > > > injected me with > 300 MG of T > > > on Tuesday 8/3. And wants > > > > > > > > > to see me in two > weeks for > > > another Injection, then start > > > > > > > > > Androgel. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After my own > consideration > > > and your advice, I will NOT get > > > > > > > > > that 2nd injection > or start > > > any TRT until the root cause is > > > > > > > > > found, and all > options are > > > exhausted. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I want to start > with a new, > > > competent Endo. And just > > > > > > > > > for the sake of my > past test > > > results, and wanting a BASELINE > > > > > > > > > - I want to get my > labs > > > retaken. Again I was injected > > > > > > > > > on 8/3, How long do > I have to > > > wait for me to " normalize " so > > > > > > > > > I can go for > another blood > > > test workup, any idea? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -fullfeatured > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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