RE: Maxed out at 10 mg of Androgel

November 23, 2010

Hi and Welcome,

First I need to tell you you need to do labs at am max time every 6 months my

Dr. dose my labs every 8 weeks this has been going on for 29 yrs.

There are a lot of things that can go wrong your blood can get to thick on gels

your DHT levels can go up many times above the top of the range.

And your problem they your having sounds to me like your Estradiol levels are to

high. If you have to pay for your labs I can see why you don't test.

You need to have at least these tests done that are in this link by Dr. the

testing he dose after a man is on TRT.

http://www.allthingsmale.com/word_docs/TRT.doc

If you can't pay to have labs one can tell if there Estradiol levels are to

high. I get ED and no night time or morning wood, I have shore and hard

nipples, I feel hot and sweat all day and night long, my upper body looks read

and my face like I have a sunburn and in the middle of the night I will wake up

in a Panic Attack.

When I tested my Estradiol the first time I was so high I was about the top of

the range. I had to take Arimidex to bring this down. It took some time doing

..5 mgs every other day. When my levels come down the first thing to come back

was my night time and morning wood that I had not had for many yrs. Then my ED

got better and I had BPH and in time keeping my Estraidol levels down my

Prostate when down to a normal size.

It very hard to get Dr.'s not up on this to even test Estradiol let alone give

out Arimidex.

But if you have this problem there is a supplement sold OTC called Indolplex/DIM

that will convert your Estradiol into good E's so your liver can wash them out

of your body.

Here is a link to a brand I know works there is a lot of junk sold out there so

if you try this get the brand.

http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0

Take one Tablet at dinner time with food. And to help your liver work better

take some TMG at bedtime and this is good for your heart and helps one sleep.

http://www.myvitanet.com/tmgtr75120ca.html

Men don't get Zinc from the corn fed meat we eat today so all men are low on

Zinc. I take ZMA at bedtime. For my Zinc and Zinc lowers Copper so I take 2

mgs of Copper at noon. Taking Zinc helps keep your testis healthy and helps

keep Estradiol down.

http://www.myvitanet.com/zmaanspre90c.html

Here is a copy of a file on taking arimidex this works the same way on DIM if

your Estradiol levels go down to low you will lose you wood and get some bad ED

so read this after a time I did very good on one half a Tablet of Indolplex/DIM.

=================================================

How To Take Arimdex and not go down on your Estradiol to Low.

What I found is if you go to low taking arimidex, it's the length of time your

to low, if your too low say for 8 weeks it can take your body a longer time to

make more Estradiol. Bottom line is to know how not to go to low. Keep a log on

your dose and how you feel men going to low can't get it up taking Viagra. I

went to low when I first tried Arimidex and did not know about going to low or

how one feels to low, so I was low a good 8 weeks. I did not know I was low

until my next labs.

The best gage I have found to control your Estradiol levels is to gage your

night time and morning wood. At good levels or what I call the sweet spot you

get your night time and morning wood back so strong it will wake you up and you

can hang a coat on it.

Most men do good taking .25 mgs or 1/4 of a 1mg. pill, I use a pill cutter to

cut the small pill in half then I stand it on the cut end and use a single edge

razor to cut this in half. A good way to take arimidex is by how high your

levels are. I tested over 90 pg/ml so we tried doing .5 mgs every other day

after 8 weeks my next set of labs showed it did not move below 90, test said

>90. So we did .5 mgs. every day in about 2 weeks I got some strong night time

and morning wood back after not having them for many yrs.

I kept doing this dose and in 8 weeks my next set of labs said <20 back in the

day labs were like this they did not have to good labs we have today they could

not read lower the 20. My Dr. told me this looks to low to stop taking the

Arimidex. The one thing I noticed was my wood stopped and stopping the Arimidex

my wood came back in about 7 weeks my next test at 8 weeks was 24 pg/ml. So we

went back on the Arimidex but the Dr. told me to take .5 mgs every 3 days I was

on this dose not a week and lost wood. This is when I figured out going to low

you lose wood. And the longer your too low the longer it takes to get levels

back up.

I stopped the arimidex right away and got my wood back in 4 days. I then after

playing with the dose for a time found the best dose is .25mgs every 2 to 3

days.

So lets say your labs are less the 50 pg/ml if your take .5 mgs you can go down

so dam fast your miss the sweet spot of your wood and go to low. It's best with

lower levels 50 and under to do less Arimidex .25mgs every 2 days if later your

lose wood when it comes back go to every 3 days.

I have found estradiol is the hardest hormone to control, it goes up or down

from month to month some times I need .25mgs every 2 days other times I need

..25mgs everyday most of the time I do well on every 3 days.

So between wood and labs I do great and so do most of the men I have told this

to. I keep a log on how much I am taking and how I feel. Doing this and reading

back in my log I was able to tell when I was going to high or to low my Dr. lets

me dose my arimidex by how I feel.

Over the yrs. I have posted this story until I am blue in the face.

==================================================

ALL ABOUT DIM.

Sure here is a few links that are all about it. But there are a lot of Co.'s

out there selling DIM that don't work well. Indolplex/DIM is the best it dose

not get killed in your stomach when you take it.

Diindolylmethane (DIM) is a stable indole found in cruciferous vegetables which

promotes a beneficial estrogen metabolism in both women and men.

http://www.dimfaq.com/index.htm

in this link it's full of links about it.

http://qualitycounts.com/fpdim.html

http://www.jbc.org/content/278/23/21136.full

If you have DIM in caps it's not Indolplex so to take this and to get it to work

open the cap pore the DIM into a spoon add some Olive oil and take it this helps

to keep it from getting killed in your stomach.

The following is some links to where you can buy Indolplex/DIM.

http://www.vitaglo.com/e5336.html

http://www.vitacost.com/EnzymaticTherapyEstroBalancewithDIM/searchby-PN/searchte\

xt-dim

http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0

http://www.estrobalance.net/

http://www.easyhealthzone.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=PP0108 & click=71

http://www.nbizz.com/longevityclinic/listings/213.html

http://www.drugnatural.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD & Store_Code=DMOS & Product_\

Code=156497

http://www.smartbomb.com/itindo9.html?utm_source=mercent & utm_medium=shopcompare & \

utm_content=itindo9 & utm_campaign=mbsdb & mr:trackingCode=C6AEFBD1-E681-DE11-B7F3-0\

019B9C043EB & mr:referralID=NA

http://www.ritecare.com/cgi-bin/cart.pl?db=product_db.dat & category=natural+medic\

ine & method=any_words & search=iti-75336

http://www.naturamart.com/phytopharmica-pms-formula-with-indoplex-120-caps.html

How to take Indolplex/DIM take one tablet 120 mgs at dinner time it can take 2

weeks to 2 months to get your Estradiol levels down itâ€™s all about how high

you are in your levels. What you need to do is get this down to about 20 pg/ml.

When you get this low your night time and morning wood will come back so strong

it will wake you up this means most of the time your at your best levels or what

I call the sweet spot. Keep taking the DIM but if your wood stops your going

down to low so just stop taking it. The day your wood comes back go back on

the DIM but cut the tablet in half. If your Testosterone was tested and low but

your not on TRT get it tested again you might find your levels came up some 200

to 300 points.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: McKay <michael.mckay@...>

> Subject: Maxed out at 10 mg of Androgel

>

> Date: Monday, November 22, 2010, 6:41 PM

> I just found out about this group

> today so hope someone can help!Â

>

> I have primary hypogonadism (I am infertile and have never

> produced

> sperm).Â I started taking Androgel at age 40,Â 5

> mg/day and had good

> results.Â I lifted weights frequently, until 2 yrs ago

> when we adopted a

> 6 yr old special needs boy from China which has taken up

> all of my time

> so I don't get to the gym regularly.Â About 1 yr ago,

> I noticed that I

> wasn't able to maintain a hard erection, so switched to 5

> mg morning, 5

> mg at night.Â It is only marginally successful.Â

> Any suggestions would

> be appreciated as I have read that 10 mg is the max dose of

> Androgel.Â I

> haven't had my T checked in years, but can tell it is low.

>

> Thanks,

>

November 23, 2010

Hi ,

My guess is that you have probably become somewhat hypothyroid. After you

start taking testosterone, it is not uncommon for your thyroid to lower

somewhat. As your thyroid goes lower, your skin becomes thicker and doesn't

absorb the Androgel as well.

In the past, my doctor prescribed up to 10 mg twice per day, but it really

didn't make much difference. The highest my Testosterone level got was

about 585 (and for me, that wasn't high enough).

You could ask your doctor to run a full thyroid panel (TSH, Total T4, Free

T4, Total T3, Free T3). There are many different theories on how to

interpret these results, but in general you want your Free T3 and Free T4 to

be in the upper half of the reference ranges. My doctor says that he likes

to see Total T4 >7 for someone not on thyroid (other doctors use > 8) and

between 10-12 for someone who is on thyroid meds. He also says that he

likes to see Total T3 between 140-160. TSH is NOT a measure of thyroid - it

is only a measure of pituitary function. I always had perfect TSH numbers

(1.0-1.4), but I was still hypothyroid; since starting to take thyroid meds,

I feel a lot better.

You should also get your estradiol levels checked. Androgel can allow

Testosterone to convert to Estradiols a little more than injections. Even

though the reference range is up to 56, you should be right around 20.

Estradiol levels above 20 can cause weak erections. Have you experienced

any of the other common symptoms of high estradiols? Depression? Anxiety?

Mood swings? Water retention? Fluid in the ears or dizziness? Redness on

the upper half of the body? Breast tenderness? Blood pressure increase?

If your doctor will test your estradiols, make sure you ask for a " Sensitive

Estradiol " test.

If your thyroid is low, you could start to take thyroid meds and wait to see

if you start to feel better again (but it could take months - maybe even 6+

months).

If your estradiol levels are high, your doctor can prescribe Arimidex

(generic = Anastrozole). Phil Georgian has a guide on how to take Arimidex.

If all else fails, you could try to switch to injections.

Best of luck!

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of McKay

Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 5:41 PM

Subject: Maxed out at 10 mg of Androgel

I just found out about this group today so hope someone can help!

I have primary hypogonadism (I am infertile and have never produced

sperm). I started taking Androgel at age 40, 5 mg/day and had good

results. I lifted weights frequently, until 2 yrs ago when we adopted a

6 yr old special needs boy from China which has taken up all of my time

so I don't get to the gym regularly. About 1 yr ago, I noticed that I

wasn't able to maintain a hard erection, so switched to 5 mg morning, 5

mg at night. It is only marginally successful. Any suggestions would

be appreciated as I have read that 10 mg is the max dose of Androgel. I

haven't had my T checked in years, but can tell it is low.

Thanks,

November 23, 2010

This is great info. I haven't gone to an endocrinologist for years. Should I

have my GP make an appt with one to get these specific tests, or will the GP be

competent enough to do it?

I now have marginally high bp and am taking some meds for it as well as Avodart

and Flomax for bph (I just stopped Flomax to see if the flow is ok and it is).

I don't thank my parents for my genetics!

I don't think I have experienced much in the way of the symptoms you mention. I

do seem tired more than I have been in the past, but just chalk that up to a

busy and stressful lifestyle.

How much can I boost my testosterone through vigorous weight lifting? I used to

do so regularly, and don't go now at all. I've gained 10 lbs of fat and lost 10

lbs of muscle in the 2 years since I lifted.

Thanks for your info.

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of

Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 8:44 AM

Subject: RE: Maxed out at 10 mg of Androgel