Re: Question on Low T/ TRT and Arthritis

March 13, 2010

It is possible your E2 could be too low.

I believe E2 helps lubricate the joints.

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Question on Low T/ TRT and Arthritis

Hi All,

Thank you one and all for all your feed back and support. Now I have one more

question. Last few days I have been having knee pain, thigh pain and now pain in

both my arms. Biceps area and elbows. This is a mix of joint pain and muscle

pain.

I read that women with low estrogen are prone to arthritis but what about women

? My last Test Cyp injection was last monday 100 mg/ml dose. My next shot will

be on coming monday. (I decided to do it weekly as per Phil) and I am going to

get my blood work done before my shot first thing in the morning and then later

will get my shot.

After my shot on Monday, I started taking DIM 1 tablet a day with food during

lunch. ( I will do it with dinner here after) But last two days I have pains

coming and going in knees and elbows and biceps area.

Phil: If you remember a couple of days back I wrote to you about my knee pain

and after 3 - 4 days of my 100 mg shot my knee pain got better. But from last 2

days I have this pain in biceps and elbows. Some times it will be only for about

6hrs and goes away and sometimes its only in one elbow and one biceps area.

Any thougths ? Again this is only a QUESTION. Is DIM that I am taking (1 tab a

day) bringing my Estrodoil much lower and causing this pain ?

Ed, Phil, Ade and all others thank you for your feed back and support.

Please let me know your thoughts on this pain.

Thank you,

Joe

March 13, 2010

I've reviewed the medical literature for breast cancer research where aromatase

inhibitors (AI) such as Arimidex are used. While DIM does not reduce the

formation of estradiol (E2), it does accelerate the conversion of E2 into less

active estrogen metabolites, thereby achieving a similar end result. AI-induced

joint pain is being acknowledged as a significant barrier to patient acceptance

of AIs during breast cancer treatment. However, I'm not sure how this would

translate to men.

The range for men of E2 according to my LabCorp test results is from 3 to 70.

For women, depending upon the time of the month, it varies from 9 to 281.

However, once they hit menopause, their levels drop to 0 to 19. AI therapy

would also drop their levels this low since they're typically taking a much

larger dose. Although I have no data to support the following statement, I

don't think it would be unusual for anyone with an E2 level below 20 to start

experiencing joint pain. The mechanism of how estradiol protects joints from

hurting hasn't been proven yet. Chances are estradiol plays an

anti-inflammatory role, but I'm just guessing.

The classic method to determine is " A " is causing an effect is to stop taking

" A " and see if the symptoms resolve. In your case, stop taking DIM for several

days. The most recent study I studied showed that the half-life for DIM varies

from 4 to 8 hours, which means that by 24 to 48 hours, it's gone from your

system. If your joint pain gets better after 2 to 3 days, try taking it again

one week after you've stopped it. If the symptoms return, then the daily DIM

may be dropping your E2 too low. You could then try taking it every second or

third day like Phil does with his Arimidex.

From your message, it appears that the pain becomes noticeable 5 to 6 days after

your injection. By that time, your testosterone level is dropping and therefore

you're producing less estradiol. You might try cycling your DIM by taking one

tablet daily during the first four days after your injection, then stop taking

it until your next injection.

Of course, if other men have experienced this, then their solutions would

probably be better. Years ago as a pharmacist, I learned that things work in

two ways: 1) how they should work, and 2) how they really work.

________________________________

From: inc_100 <no_reply >

Sent: Sat, March 13, 2010 3:16:51 PM

Subject: Question on Low T/ TRT and Arthritis

Hi All,

Thank you one and all for all your feed back and support. Now I have one more

question. Last few days I have been having knee pain, thigh pain and now pain in

both my arms. Biceps area and elbows. This is a mix of joint pain and muscle

pain.

I read that women with low estrogen are prone to arthritis but what about women

? My last Test Cyp injection was last monday 100 mg/ml dose. My next shot will

be on coming monday. (I decided to do it weekly as per Phil) and I am going to

get my blood work done before my shot first thing in the morning and then later

will get my shot.

After my shot on Monday, I started taking DIM 1 tablet a day with food during

lunch. ( I will do it with dinner here after) But last two days I have pains

coming and going in knees and elbows and biceps area.

Phil: If you remember a couple of days back I wrote to you about my knee pain

and after 3 - 4 days of my 100 mg shot my knee pain got better. But from last 2

days I have this pain in biceps and elbows. Some times it will be only for about

6hrs and goes away and sometimes its only in one elbow and one biceps area.

Any thougths ? Again this is only a QUESTION. Is DIM that I am taking (1 tab a

day) bringing my Estrodoil much lower and causing this pain ?

Ed, Phil, Ade and all others thank you for your feed back and support.

Please let me know your thoughts on this pain.

Thank you,

Joe

March 13, 2010

You can have this pain I did not feel it was bad pain just sore. As your levels

get higher on the shots your pain will get better. To keep your levels up

before your next shots try some HCG Novarel doing 250 IU's on the 2 days each

just before your next T shot this keeps your levels up until then. Or if your

Dr. will not give you HCG ask about doing your shots 2x's a weeks 50 mgs.

Go to Dr. 's site at www.allthingsmale.com and read TRT: A Recipe for

Success and his HCG Update. Print this out and show it to your Dr. Dr.

puts this out there free for you and your Dr.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: inc_100 <no_reply >

> Subject: Question on Low T/ TRT and Arthritis

>

> Date: Saturday, March 13, 2010, 3:16 PM

> Hi All,

> Thank you one and all for all your feed back and support.

> Now I have one more question. Last few days I have been

> having knee pain, thigh pain and now pain in both my arms.

> Biceps area and elbows. This is a mix of joint pain and

> muscle pain.

> I read that women with low estrogen are prone to arthritis

> but what about women ? My last Test Cyp injection was last

> monday 100 mg/ml dose. My next shot will be on coming

> monday. (I decided to do it weekly as per Phil) and I am

> going to get my blood work done before my shot first thing

> in the morning and then later will get my shot.

>

> After my shot on Monday, I started taking DIM 1 tablet a

> day with food during lunch. ( I will do it with dinner here

> after) But last two days I have pains coming and going in

> knees and elbows and biceps area.

>

> Phil: If you remember a couple of days back I wrote to you

> about my knee pain and after 3 - 4 days of my 100 mg shot my

> knee pain got better. But from last 2 days I have this pain

> in biceps and elbows. Some times it will be only for about

> 6hrs and goes away and sometimes its only in one elbow and

> one biceps area.

>

> Any thougths ? Again this is only a QUESTION. Is DIM that I

> am taking (1 tab a day) bringing my Estrodoil much lower and

> causing this pain ?

>

> Ed, Phil, Ade and all others thank you for your feed back

> and support.

>

> Please let me know your thoughts on this pain.

>

> Thank you,

> Joe

>

> ------------------------------------

>

March 13, 2010

You can get sore joints from low E2 but you need to be low for a time. First

thing to happen when E2 is to low is you get some dam bad ED and can't get it up

taking Viagra.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Marc Michaud <MisterX225@...>

> Subject: Re: Question on Low T/ TRT and Arthritis

>

> Date: Saturday, March 13, 2010, 3:19 PM

>

> It is possible your E2 could be too low.

>

> I believe E2 helps lubricate the joints.

>

> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

>

> Question on Low T/ TRT and

> Arthritis

>

> Hi All,

> Thank you one and all for all your feed back and support.

> Now I have one more question. Last few days I have been

> having knee pain, thigh pain and now pain in both my arms.

> Biceps area and elbows. This is a mix of joint pain and

> muscle pain.

> I read that women with low estrogen are prone to arthritis

> but what about women ? My last Test Cyp injection was last

> monday 100 mg/ml dose. My next shot will be on coming

> monday. (I decided to do it weekly as per Phil) and I am

> going to get my blood work done before my shot first thing

> in the morning and then later will get my shot.

>

> After my shot on Monday, I started taking DIM 1 tablet a

> day with food during lunch. ( I will do it with dinner here

> after) But last two days I have pains coming and going in

> knees and elbows and biceps area.

>

> Phil: If you remember a couple of days back I wrote to you

> about my knee pain and after 3 - 4 days of my 100 mg shot my

> knee pain got better. But from last 2 days I have this pain

> in biceps and elbows. Some times it will be only for about

> 6hrs and goes away and sometimes its only in one elbow and

> one biceps area.

>

> Any thougths ? Again this is only a QUESTION. Is DIM that I

> am taking (1 tab a day) bringing my Estrodoil much lower and

> causing this pain ?

>

> Ed, Phil, Ade and all others thank you for your feed back

> and support.

>

> Please let me know your thoughts on this pain.

>

> Thank you,

> Joe

>

March 13, 2010

Didn't Dr say that DIM could raise levels of E2 in men?

I couldn't find his post but I'm curious.

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Question on Low T/ TRT and Arthritis

Hi All,

Thank you one and all for all your feed back and support. Now I have one more

question. Last few days I have been having knee pain, thigh pain and now pain in

both my arms. Biceps area and elbows. This is a mix of joint pain and muscle

pain.

I read that women with low estrogen are prone to arthritis but what about women

? My last Test Cyp injection was last monday 100 mg/ml dose. My next shot will

be on coming monday. (I decided to do it weekly as per Phil) and I am going to

get my blood work done before my shot first thing in the morning and then later

will get my shot.

After my shot on Monday, I started taking DIM 1 tablet a day with food during

lunch. ( I will do it with dinner here after) But last two days I have pains

coming and going in knees and elbows and biceps area.

Phil: If you remember a couple of days back I wrote to you about my knee pain

and after 3 - 4 days of my 100 mg shot my knee pain got better. But from last 2

days I have this pain in biceps and elbows. Some times it will be only for about

6hrs and goes away and sometimes its only in one elbow and one biceps area.

Any thougths ? Again this is only a QUESTION. Is DIM that I am taking (1 tab a

day) bringing my Estrodoil much lower and causing this pain ?

Ed, Phil, Ade and all others thank you for your feed back and support.

Please let me know your thoughts on this pain.

Thank you,

Joe

March 13, 2010

Thank you Marc, Ed, Phil and others for your responses. I am stopping to take

DIM and will see how it goes.

Phil: I ordered my HCG. So I will be good once I get them. I think step by step

we will know what's good for your body and at what dose.

And we learn a lot from each others knowledge and experience.

Thank you all,

Joe

>

> > From: inc_100 <no_reply >

> > Subject: Question on Low T/ TRT and Arthritis

> >

> > Date: Saturday, March 13, 2010, 3:16 PM

> > Hi All,

> > Thank you one and all for all your feed back and support.

> > Now I have one more question. Last few days I have been

> > having knee pain, thigh pain and now pain in both my arms.

> > Biceps area and elbows. This is a mix of joint pain and

> > muscle pain.

> > I read that women with low estrogen are prone to arthritis

> > but what about women ? My last Test Cyp injection was last

> > monday 100 mg/ml dose. My next shot will be on coming

> > monday. (I decided to do it weekly as per Phil) and I am

> > going to get my blood work done before my shot first thing

> > in the morning and then later will get my shot.

> >

> > After my shot on Monday, I started taking DIM 1 tablet a

> > day with food during lunch. ( I will do it with dinner here

> > after) But last two days I have pains coming and going in

> > knees and elbows and biceps area.

> >

> > Phil: If you remember a couple of days back I wrote to you

> > about my knee pain and after 3 - 4 days of my 100 mg shot my

> > knee pain got better. But from last 2 days I have this pain

> > in biceps and elbows. Some times it will be only for about

> > 6hrs and goes away and sometimes its only in one elbow and

> > one biceps area.

> >

> > Any thougths ? Again this is only a QUESTION. Is DIM that I

> > am taking (1 tab a day) bringing my Estrodoil much lower and

> > causing this pain ?

> >

> > Ed, Phil, Ade and all others thank you for your feed back

> > and support.

> >

> > Please let me know your thoughts on this pain.

> >

> > Thank you,

> > Joe

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

March 14, 2010

I think he was saying other E's not Estradiol it converts E2 into they good E's

so then your liver can wash them out. The following is a file I put together

with everything I have about it and links to buy it.

====================================================

ALL ABOUT DIM.

Sure here is a few links that are all about it. But there are a lot of Co.'s

out there selling DIM that don't work well. Indolplex/DIM is the best it dose

not get killed in your stomach when you take it.

Diindolylmethane (DIM) is a stable indole found in cruciferous vegetables which

promotes a beneficial estrogen metabolism in both women and men.

http://www.dimfaq.com/index.htm

in this link it's full of links about it.

http://qualitycounts.com/fpdim.html

http://www.jbc.org/content/278/23/21136.full

If you have DIM in caps it's not Indolplex so to take this and to get it to work

open the cap pore the DIM into a spoon add some Olive oil and take it this helps

to keep it from getting killed in your stomach.

The following is some links to where you can buy Indolplex/DIM.

http://www.vitaglo.com/e5336.html

http://www.vitacost.com/EnzymaticTherapyEstroBalancewithDIM/searchby-PN/searchte\

xt-dim

http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0

http://www.estrobalance.net/

http://www.easyhealthzone.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=PP0108 & click=71

http://www.nbizz.com/longevityclinic/listings/213.html

http://www.drugnatural.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD & Store_Code=DMOS & Product_\

Code=156497

http://www.smartbomb.com/itindo9.html?utm_source=mercent & utm_medium=shopcompare & \

utm_content=itindo9 & utm_campaign=mbsdb & mr:trackingCode=C6AEFBD1-E681-DE11-B7F3-0\

019B9C043EB & mr:referralID=NA

http://www.ritecare.com/cgi-bin/cart.pl?db=product_db.dat & category=natural+medic\

ine & method=any_words & search=iti-75336

http://www.naturamart.com/phytopharmica-pms-formula-with-indoplex-120-caps.html

How to take Indolplex/DIM take one tablet 120 mgs at dinner time it can take 2

weeks to 2 months to get your Estradiol levels down itâ€™s all about how high

you are in your levels. What you need to do is get this down to about 20 pg/ml.

When you get this low your night time and morning wood will come back so strong

it will wake you up this means most of the time your at your best levels or what

I call the sweet spot. Keep taking the DIM but if your wood stops your going

down to low so just stop taking it. The day your wood comes back go back on

the DIM but cut the tablet in half. If your Testosterone was tested and low but

your not on TRT get it tested again you might find your levels came up some 200

to 300 points.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Marc Michaud <MisterX225@...>

> Subject: Re: Question on Low T/ TRT and Arthritis

>

> Date: Saturday, March 13, 2010, 6:13 PM

>

> Didn't Dr say that DIM could raise levels of E2 in

> men?

>

> I couldn't find his post but I'm curious.

>

> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

>

> Question on Low T/ TRT and

> Arthritis

>

> Â

> Hi All,

> Thank you one and all for all your feed back and support.

> Now I have one more question. Last few days I have been

> having knee pain, thigh pain and now pain in both my arms.

> Biceps area and elbows. This is a mix of joint pain and

> muscle pain.

> I read that women with low estrogen are prone to arthritis

> but what about women ? My last Test Cyp injection was last

> monday 100 mg/ml dose. My next shot will be on coming

> monday. (I decided to do it weekly as per Phil) and I am

> going to get my blood work done before my shot first thing

> in the morning and then later will get my shot.

>

> After my shot on Monday, I started taking DIM 1 tablet a

> day with food during lunch. ( I will do it with dinner here

> after) But last two days I have pains coming and going in

> knees and elbows and biceps area.

>

> Phil: If you remember a couple of days back I wrote to you

> about my knee pain and after 3 - 4 days of my 100 mg shot my

> knee pain got better. But from last 2 days I have this pain

> in biceps and elbows. Some times it will be only for about

> 6hrs and goes away and sometimes its only in one elbow and

> one biceps area.

>

> Any thougths ? Again this is only a QUESTION. Is DIM that I

> am taking (1 tab a day) bringing my Estrodoil much lower and

> causing this pain ?

>

> Ed, Phil, Ade and all others thank you for your feed back

> and support.

>

> Please let me know your thoughts on this pain.

>

> Thank you,

> Joe

>

> Â Â Â

>

March 14, 2010

I just replyed to one of your posts why are you stoping DIM.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: inc_100 <no_reply >

> Subject: Re: Question on Low T/ TRT and Arthritis

>

> Date: Saturday, March 13, 2010, 7:14 PM

> Thank you Marc, Ed, Phil and others

> for your responses. I am stopping to take DIM and will see

> how it goes.

>

> Phil: I ordered my HCG. So I will be good once I get them.

> I think step by step we will know what's good for your body

> and at what dose.

>

> And we learn a lot from each others knowledge and

> experience.

>

> Thank you all,

> Joe

>

> >

> > > From: inc_100 <no_reply >

> > > Subject: Question on Low T/ TRT

> and Arthritis

> > >

> > > Date: Saturday, March 13, 2010, 3:16 PM

> > > Hi All,

> > > Thank you one and all for all your feed back and

> support.

> > > Now I have one more question. Last few days I

> have been

> > > having knee pain, thigh pain and now pain in both

> my arms.

> > > Biceps area and elbows. This is a mix of joint

> pain and

> > > muscle pain.

> > > I read that women with low estrogen are prone to

> arthritis

> > > but what about women ? My last Test Cyp injection

> was last

> > > monday 100 mg/ml dose. My next shot will be on

> coming

> > > monday. (I decided to do it weekly as per Phil)

> and I am

> > > going to get my blood work done before my shot

> first thing

> > > in the morning and then later will get my shot.

> > >

> > > After my shot on Monday, I started taking DIM 1

> tablet a

> > > day with food during lunch. ( I will do it with

> dinner here

> > > after) But last two days I have pains coming and

> going in

> > > knees and elbows and biceps area.

> > >

> > > Phil: If you remember a couple of days back I

> wrote to you

> > > about my knee pain and after 3 - 4 days of my 100

> mg shot my

> > > knee pain got better. But from last 2 days I have

> this pain

> > > in biceps and elbows. Some times it will be only

> for about

> > > 6hrs and goes away and sometimes its only in one

> elbow and

> > > one biceps area.

> > >

> > > Any thougths ? Again this is only a QUESTION. Is

> DIM that I

> > > am taking (1 tab a day) bringing my Estrodoil

> much lower and

> > > causing this pain ?

> > >

> > > Ed, Phil, Ade and all others thank you for your

> feed back

> > > and support.

> > >

> > > Please let me know your thoughts on this pain.

> > >

> > > Thank you,

> > > Joe

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

March 16, 2010

Thank you Phil, Marc, Ed and others. I am taking Indolplex/Dim 1 tab every day

but stopped it last couple of days and will start it again once the wood comes

back.

Also, I went to get my bloodtests done. Have to see what how they come up. Will

post them when they arrive.

Joe

>

> > From: Marc Michaud <MisterX225@...>

> > Subject: Re: Question on Low T/ TRT and Arthritis

> >

> > Date: Saturday, March 13, 2010, 6:13 PM

> >

> > Didn't Dr say that DIM could raise levels of E2 in

> > men?

> >

> > I couldn't find his post but I'm curious.

> >

> > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

> >

> > Question on Low T/ TRT and

> > Arthritis

> >

> > Â

> > Hi All,

> > Thank you one and all for all your feed back and support.

> > Now I have one more question. Last few days I have been

> > having knee pain, thigh pain and now pain in both my arms.

> > Biceps area and elbows. This is a mix of joint pain and

> > muscle pain.

> > I read that women with low estrogen are prone to arthritis

> > but what about women ? My last Test Cyp injection was last

> > monday 100 mg/ml dose. My next shot will be on coming

> > monday. (I decided to do it weekly as per Phil) and I am

> > going to get my blood work done before my shot first thing

> > in the morning and then later will get my shot.

> >

> > After my shot on Monday, I started taking DIM 1 tablet a

> > day with food during lunch. ( I will do it with dinner here

> > after) But last two days I have pains coming and going in

> > knees and elbows and biceps area.

> >

> > Phil: If you remember a couple of days back I wrote to you

> > about my knee pain and after 3 - 4 days of my 100 mg shot my

> > knee pain got better. But from last 2 days I have this pain

> > in biceps and elbows. Some times it will be only for about

> > 6hrs and goes away and sometimes its only in one elbow and

> > one biceps area.

> >

> > Any thougths ? Again this is only a QUESTION. Is DIM that I

> > am taking (1 tab a day) bringing my Estrodoil much lower and

> > causing this pain ?

> >

> > Ed, Phil, Ade and all others thank you for your feed back

> > and support.

> >

> > Please let me know your thoughts on this pain.

> >

> > Thank you,

> > Joe

> >

> > Â Â Â

> >

March 16, 2010

Is dim nolvadex? If it is, is the generic Tamoxifen Citrate the same thing? It's

a lot cheaper.

> >

> > > From: Marc Michaud <MisterX225@>

> > > Subject: Re: Question on Low T/ TRT and Arthritis

> > >

> > > Date: Saturday, March 13, 2010, 6:13 PM

> > >

> > > Didn't Dr say that DIM could raise levels of E2 in

> > > men?

> > >

> > > I couldn't find his post but I'm curious.

> > >

> > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

> > >

> > > Question on Low T/ TRT and

> > > Arthritis

> > >

> > > Â

> > > Hi All,

> > > Thank you one and all for all your feed back and support.

> > > Now I have one more question. Last few days I have been

> > > having knee pain, thigh pain and now pain in both my arms.

> > > Biceps area and elbows. This is a mix of joint pain and

> > > muscle pain.

> > > I read that women with low estrogen are prone to arthritis

> > > but what about women ? My last Test Cyp injection was last

> > > monday 100 mg/ml dose. My next shot will be on coming

> > > monday. (I decided to do it weekly as per Phil) and I am

> > > going to get my blood work done before my shot first thing

> > > in the morning and then later will get my shot.

> > >

> > > After my shot on Monday, I started taking DIM 1 tablet a

> > > day with food during lunch. ( I will do it with dinner here

> > > after) But last two days I have pains coming and going in

> > > knees and elbows and biceps area.

> > >

> > > Phil: If you remember a couple of days back I wrote to you

> > > about my knee pain and after 3 - 4 days of my 100 mg shot my

> > > knee pain got better. But from last 2 days I have this pain

> > > in biceps and elbows. Some times it will be only for about

> > > 6hrs and goes away and sometimes its only in one elbow and

> > > one biceps area.

> > >

> > > Any thougths ? Again this is only a QUESTION. Is DIM that I

> > > am taking (1 tab a day) bringing my Estrodoil much lower and

> > > causing this pain ?

> > >

> > > Ed, Phil, Ade and all others thank you for your feed back

> > > and support.

> > >

> > > Please let me know your thoughts on this pain.

> > >

> > > Thank you,

> > > Joe

> > >

> > > Â Â Â

> > >

March 17, 2010

DIM is an over the counter supplement (short for diindoylmethane) that

accelerates the conversion of estradiol (E2) to less potent estrogens, thereby

reducing the level of estradiol in your blood.Â

Tamoxifen (Nolvadex) and clomiphene citrate (Clomid) are both estrogen

antagonists.Â They work by blocking estrogen receptors.Â For example, in order

for estradiol to work, it must first attach to an estrogen receptor in the

body.Â Tamoxifen and clomiphene compete against estradiol so that less

estradiol can attach to estrogen receptors.Â The end result is that estradiol

produces much less of an effect, even though the blood levels remain unchanged.

Arimidex is an aromatase inhibitor.Â It greatly reduces the conversion of

testosterone to estradiol.Â Estradiol is the most potent estrogen, and small

amounts are necessary.Â However, if it goes too high, libido and erections go

out the window.Â This forum provides excellent guidance on how to keep your

estradiol at the proper levels.

________________________________

From: andrenym007 <no_reply >

Sent: Tue, March 16, 2010 8:23:31 PM

Subject: Re: Question on Low T/ TRT and Arthritis

Â

Is dim nolvadex? If it is, is the generic Tamoxifen Citrate the same thing? It's

a lot cheaper.

> >

> > > From: Marc Michaud <MisterX225@ >

> > > Subject: Re: Question on Low T/ TRT and Arthritis

> > >

> > > Date: Saturday, March 13, 2010, 6:13 PM

> > >

> > > Didn't Dr say that DIM could raise levels of E2 in

> > > men?

> > >

> > > I couldn't find his post but I'm curious.

> > >

> > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

> > >

> > > Question on Low T/ TRT and

> > > Arthritis

> > >

> > > Ã‚Â

> > > Hi All,

> > > Thank you one and all for all your feed back and support.

> > > Now I have one more question. Last few days I have been

> > > having knee pain, thigh pain and now pain in both my arms.

> > > Biceps area and elbows. This is a mix of joint pain and

> > > muscle pain.

> > > I read that women with low estrogen are prone to arthritis

> > > but what about women ? My last Test Cyp injection was last

> > > monday 100 mg/ml dose. My next shot will be on coming

> > > monday. (I decided to do it weekly as per Phil) and I am

> > > going to get my blood work done before my shot first thing

> > > in the morning and then later will get my shot.

> > >

> > > After my shot on Monday, I started taking DIM 1 tablet a

> > > day with food during lunch. ( I will do it with dinner here

> > > after) But last two days I have pains coming and going in

> > > knees and elbows and biceps area.

> > >

> > > Phil: If you remember a couple of days back I wrote to you

> > > about my knee pain and after 3 - 4 days of my 100 mg shot my

> > > knee pain got better. But from last 2 days I have this pain

> > > in biceps and elbows. Some times it will be only for about

> > > 6hrs and goes away and sometimes its only in one elbow and

> > > one biceps area.

> > >

> > > Any thougths ? Again this is only a QUESTION. Is DIM that I

> > > am taking (1 tab a day) bringing my Estrodoil much lower and

> > > causing this pain ?

> > >

> > > Ed, Phil, Ade and all others thank you for your feed back

> > > and support.

> > >

> > > Please let me know your thoughts on this pain.

> > >

> > > Thank you,

> > > Joe

> > >

> > > Ã‚Â Ã‚Â Ã‚Â

> > >

March 17, 2010

No Dim is not nolvadex and if your on TRT don't take nolvadex or Tamoxifen.

Here is a link about DIM and the link following it is full of link about it.

http://www.dimfaq.com/index.htm

http://qualitycounts.com/fpdim.html

When your on TRT your brain sees the added T in your blood and slows down

sending the messages that tell your testis and body to make T. Taking nolvadex

or tamoxifen tries to get your brain to send more of this message.

So it's like trying to pump water out of a boat with a big dam hole in it.

Doing this will stress your body on one side your brain is seeing added T and on

the other side it telling your brain to make more. Doing his to your body is

not good. It's like being a diabetic and eating sugar.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: andrenym007 <no_reply >

> Subject: Re: Question on Low T/ TRT and Arthritis

>

> Date: Tuesday, March 16, 2010, 8:23 PM

> Is dim nolvadex? If it is, is the

> generic Tamoxifen Citrate the same thing? It's a lot

> cheaper.

>

> > >

> > > > From: Marc Michaud <MisterX225@>

> > > > Subject: Re: Question on Low

> T/ TRT and Arthritis

> > > >

> > > > Date: Saturday, March 13, 2010, 6:13 PM

> > > >

> > > > Didn't Dr say that DIM could raise

> levels of E2 in

> > > > men?

> > > >

> > > > I couldn't find his post but I'm curious.

> > > >

> > > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

> > > >

> > > > Question on Low T/

> TRT and

> > > > Arthritis

> > > >

> > > > Ã‚Â

> > > > Hi All,

> > > > Thank you one and all for all your feed back

> and support.

> > > > Now I have one more question. Last few days

> I have been

> > > > having knee pain, thigh pain and now pain in

> both my arms.

> > > > Biceps area and elbows. This is a mix of

> joint pain and

> > > > muscle pain.

> > > > I read that women with low estrogen are

> prone to arthritis

> > > > but what about women ? My last Test Cyp

> injection was last

> > > > monday 100 mg/ml dose. My next shot will be

> on coming

> > > > monday. (I decided to do it weekly as per

> Phil) and I am

> > > > going to get my blood work done before my

> shot first thing

> > > > in the morning and then later will get my

> shot.

> > > >

> > > > After my shot on Monday, I started taking

> DIM 1 tablet a

> > > > day with food during lunch. ( I will do it

> with dinner here

> > > > after) But last two days I have pains coming

> and going in

> > > > knees and elbows and biceps area.

> > > >

> > > > Phil: If you remember a couple of days back

> I wrote to you

> > > > about my knee pain and after 3 - 4 days of

> my 100 mg shot my

> > > > knee pain got better. But from last 2 days I

> have this pain

> > > > in biceps and elbows. Some times it will be

> only for about

> > > > 6hrs and goes away and sometimes its only in

> one elbow and

> > > > one biceps area.

> > > >

> > > > Any thougths ? Again this is only a

> QUESTION. Is DIM that I

> > > > am taking (1 tab a day) bringing my

> Estrodoil much lower and

> > > > causing this pain ?

> > > >

> > > > Ed, Phil, Ade and all others thank you for

> your feed back

> > > > and support.

> > > >

> > > > Please let me know your thoughts on this

> pain.

> > > >

> > > > Thank you,

> > > > Joe

> > > >

> > > >Â

> > > >

> > > > Ã‚Â Ã‚Â Ã‚Â

> > > >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> > > >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

March 17, 2010

Does the over the counter work as well as the pharmaceutical? Which one do you

prefer and what is the starting dose? thx!

> > >

> > > > From: Marc Michaud <MisterX225@ >

> > > > Subject: Re: Question on Low T/ TRT and Arthritis

> > > >

> > > > Date: Saturday, March 13, 2010, 6:13 PM

> > > >

> > > > Didn't Dr say that DIM could raise levels of E2 in

> > > > men?

> > > >

> > > > I couldn't find his post but I'm curious.

> > > >

> > > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

> > > >

> > > > Question on Low T/ TRT and

> > > > Arthritis

> > > >

> > > > Ã‚Â

> > > > Hi All,

> > > > Thank you one and all for all your feed back and support.

> > > > Now I have one more question. Last few days I have been

> > > > having knee pain, thigh pain and now pain in both my arms.

> > > > Biceps area and elbows. This is a mix of joint pain and

> > > > muscle pain.

> > > > I read that women with low estrogen are prone to arthritis

> > > > but what about women ? My last Test Cyp injection was last

> > > > monday 100 mg/ml dose. My next shot will be on coming

> > > > monday. (I decided to do it weekly as per Phil) and I am

> > > > going to get my blood work done before my shot first thing

> > > > in the morning and then later will get my shot.

> > > >

> > > > After my shot on Monday, I started taking DIM 1 tablet a

> > > > day with food during lunch. ( I will do it with dinner here

> > > > after) But last two days I have pains coming and going in

> > > > knees and elbows and biceps area.

> > > >

> > > > Phil: If you remember a couple of days back I wrote to you

> > > > about my knee pain and after 3 - 4 days of my 100 mg shot my

> > > > knee pain got better. But from last 2 days I have this pain

> > > > in biceps and elbows. Some times it will be only for about

> > > > 6hrs and goes away and sometimes its only in one elbow and

> > > > one biceps area.

> > > >

> > > > Any thougths ? Again this is only a QUESTION. Is DIM that I

> > > > am taking (1 tab a day) bringing my Estrodoil much lower and

> > > > causing this pain ?

> > > >

> > > > Ed, Phil, Ade and all others thank you for your feed back

> > > > and support.

> > > >

> > > > Please let me know your thoughts on this pain.

> > > >

> > > > Thank you,

> > > > Joe

> > > >

> > > > Ã‚Â Ã‚Â Ã‚Â

> > > >

March 17, 2010

Here is a copy of a file I made about DIM and where and what kind to buy.