Re: Use of pellet based TRT and a few questions

[Guest guest]

Thank you sbryant511 a very big help about pellets and other forums of TRT If I

could find an honest Dr. that dose pellets in MI. I would be on them now. Not

long ago I checked to see is a Sotopelle network doctor in my area and there is

not and the one some one told me about that is if the family. Talking to his Dr.

he would not give me enough pellets to cover me for 3 months this Dr. wanted me

to come in every 6 weeks for them at a dam high cost. I have given up on them.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: sbryant511 <sbryant511@...>

> Subject: Use of pellet based TRT and a few questions

>

> Date: Monday, January 18, 2010, 4:39 PM

> " Had Testopel implants put in on

> 11-23-2009. Testopel raised my Total T level 30 points. 415

> to 445. My opinion is Testopel was virtually worthless.

> $1000.00 pellets, $200.00 office visit, $200.00 to have the

> Dr. implant them = $1400.00 "

>

> Having been on pellets for close to three years, and having

> talked with multiple TRT patients who went on pellets after

> trying other means of TRT and my current GP who is a top

> Sotopelle network doctor, I can tell you that your

> experience is NOT typical nor does it " mirror the

> experiences " of most TRT patients who are using pellets.

>

> I suspect a couple of things right off the bat. First, how

> many of the 75 mg testopel pellets did your doctor

> implant?  Where did he or she implant them?  How

> long after implantation did your doctor retest you?  Do

> you have sleep apnea? How much do you weigh?

>

> If your TRT is NOT being covered by any health plan, why

> did your

> doctor use Testopel?

>

> Pellets often substantially reduce the aromitization of T

> to E2, and when compared to topical forms of TRT, pellets do

> not cause drastic increases in DHT. If the pellets are

> implanted correctly and in the right location, the release

> rate is very consistent.  In addition, you do not have

> to worry about transferring T to others nor do you have to

> worry about a daily or weekly doseage. 

>

>

> Treating hypogonadism is by all means not a one size fits

> all, but I think there are some other variables that are at

> play here in your experience with T pellets

>

> You can purchase testosterone pellets from several

> different compounding pharmacies as well as from a Sotopelle

> network doctor for much less than what you are being charged

> for testopel.  In the US, testopel is the only FDA

> approved testosterone pellet available.  Not unless the

> FDA has changed their rules in the past two years, testopel

> is only available in 75 mg pellets(in europe larger pellets

> are readily available), and the only thing in these pellets

> that differs from the compounding pharmacy pellets is the

> binding ingredient.

>

> Following the Congressional hearings on the use of Steroids

> in Pro Baseball(what a waste of tax dollars), testosterone

> was elevated to a Cat III controlled substance, and this

> combined with the fact that the big pharmacuetical

> consortium in combination with the FDA saw that male HRT/TRT

> was going to be one of the next major cash cows in the

> pharmacy business, the stage was set for drastic increases

> in the price of all forms of T. 

>

> Because compounded creams and pellets can not be patented

> and becuase the big pharmacy consortium can not get a piece

> of the Compounding Pharmacy pie, the FDA is working to shut

> compounding pharmacies out of the HRT business.

>

> Androgel and Testim have patented means of suspending the T

> and then aiding its absorption that are patented. Were you

> not paying for that patent, both of these medicaions would

> be substantially cheaper.   

>

> During my TRT career I have used HCG, HMG, Androgel,

> Testim, Androderm(complete waste of money and

> time)Compounded T cream, Testopel, Sottopelle, Proviron,

> Andractim, Andriol and very briefly injected T.  My

> experience with injected T was so brief that I would defer

> to Phil or any of the other long time group members on that

> means of TRT. 

>

> However, after working with three different endos and a GP

> or two and participating in a hypogonadism study with Dr's

> Petilloude and Crowley at Harvard, I learned a thing or two

> along the way. Of all the above listed means of TRT, I found

> the custom compounding pharmacy T cream applied to the inner

> wrist area to be the most cost effective TRT for me to date.

> The only thing that I did not like about the compounded

> cream is having to apply it daily, taking the time to rub it

> in, and most of all the fact that the FDA put the cabosh to

> the pharmacy that was blending it for me.

>

> Some doctors consider pellets to be " old school " , but I

> have found that most of the doctors who claim this do not

> have the training and experience necessary to master the use

> of pellets as a form of TRT. For those of us who deal with

> very thick blood issues due to TRT, one of the first lines

> of and cheapest forms of treament is oddly enough what has

> been termed old school barbaric medicine--blood

> letting. 

>

> There are so many quacks out there trying to administer TRT

> who know very little about hypodonadism and the nuances and

> the delicate balances of male reproductive endocrinology,

> and if you happen to be stuck with an incompetent doctor, no

> form of TRT is going to achieve optimal results for

> you.  It has been said before, but I will say it again,

> when it comes to TRT, there is no one size fits all sort of

> treatment.  You will have to find what works best for

> you in combination with/balacned against out of pocket cost

> and side effects.

>

> Good luck with your journey.  It is worth it.

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

It has been months since I visited this site.

You are very correct on everything you said about pellets. I am not surprised

the big money influence may exist strong enough to try and capture TRT at the

expense of us all.

My endo has suddenly increased his cost for the individual procedures by about 4

or 5 times preparing for the new health care programs he anticipates are going

to reduce his income per patient. Medicare in GA used to care for most of the

cost for a man being treated for andropause with hormone pellets.

ernestnolan

>

> " Had Testopel implants put in on 11-23-2009. Testopel raised my Total T level

30 points. 415 to 445. My opinion is Testopel was virtually worthless. $1000.00

pellets, $200.00 office visit, $200.00 to have the Dr. implant them = $1400.00 "

>

> Having been on pellets for close to three years, and having talked with

multiple TRT patients who went on pellets after trying other means of TRT and my

current GP who is a top Sotopelle network doctor, I can tell you that your

experience is NOT typical nor does it " mirror the experiences " of most TRT

patients who are using pellets.

>

> I suspect a couple of things right off the bat. First, how many of the 75 mg

testopel pellets did your doctor implant? Where did he or she implant them?

How long after implantation did your doctor retest you? Do you have sleep

apnea? How much do you weigh?

>

> If your TRT is NOT being covered by any health plan, why did your

> doctor use Testopel?

>

> Pellets often substantially reduce the aromitization of T to E2, and when

compared to topical forms of TRT, pellets do not cause drastic increases in DHT.

If the pellets are implanted correctly and in the right location, the release

rate is very consistent. In addition, you do not have to worry about

transferring T to others nor do you have to worry about a daily or weekly

doseage.

>

>

> Treating hypogonadism is by all means not a one size fits all, but I think

there are some other variables that are at play here in your experience with T

pellets

>

> You can purchase testosterone pellets from several different compounding

pharmacies as well as from a Sotopelle network doctor for much less than what

you are being charged for testopel. In the US, testopel is the only FDA

approved testosterone pellet available. Not unless the FDA has changed their

rules in the past two years, testopel is only available in 75 mg pellets(in

europe larger pellets are readily available), and the only thing in these

pellets that differs from the compounding pharmacy pellets is the binding

ingredient.

>

> Following the Congressional hearings on the use of Steroids in Pro

Baseball(what a waste of tax dollars), testosterone was elevated to a Cat III

controlled substance, and this combined with the fact that the big

pharmacuetical consortium in combination with the FDA saw that male HRT/TRT was

going to be one of the next major cash cows in the pharmacy business, the stage

was set for drastic increases in the price of all forms of T.

>

> Because compounded creams and pellets can not be patented and becuase the big

pharmacy consortium can not get a piece of the Compounding Pharmacy pie, the FDA

is working to shut compounding pharmacies out of the HRT business.

>

> Androgel and Testim have patented means of suspending the T and then aiding

its absorption that are patented. Were you not paying for that patent, both of

these medicaions would be substantially cheaper.

>

> During my TRT career I have used HCG, HMG, Androgel, Testim,

Androderm(complete waste of money and time)Compounded T cream, Testopel,

Sottopelle, Proviron, Andractim, Andriol and very briefly injected T. My

experience with injected T was so brief that I would defer to Phil or any of the

other long time group members on that means of TRT.

>

> However, after working with three different endos and a GP or two and

participating in a hypogonadism study with Dr's Petilloude and Crowley at

Harvard, I learned a thing or two along the way. Of all the above listed means

of TRT, I found the custom compounding pharmacy T cream applied to the inner

wrist area to be the most cost effective TRT for me to date. The only thing that

I did not like about the compounded cream is having to apply it daily, taking

the time to rub it in, and most of all the fact that the FDA put the cabosh to

the pharmacy that was blending it for me.

>

> Some doctors consider pellets to be " old school " , but I have found that most

of the doctors who claim this do not have the training and experience necessary

to master the use of pellets as a form of TRT. For those of us who deal with

very thick blood issues due to TRT, one of the first lines of and cheapest forms

of treament is oddly enough what has been termed old school barbaric

medicine--blood letting.

>

> There are so many quacks out there trying to administer TRT who know very

little about hypodonadism and the nuances and the delicate balances of male

reproductive endocrinology, and if you happen to be stuck with an incompetent

doctor, no form of TRT is going to achieve optimal results for you. It has been

said before, but I will say it again, when it comes to TRT, there is no one size

fits all sort of treatment. You will have to find what works best for you in

combination with/balacned against out of pocket cost and side effects.

>

> Good luck with your journey. It is worth it.

>

[Guest guest]

Ernestnolan tell the men here you your Dr. figures out the best dose of pellets

for his men.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: ernestnolan <ernestnolan@...>

> Subject: Re: Use of pellet based TRT and a few questions

>

> Date: Monday, January 18, 2010, 9:03 PM

> It has been months since I visited

> this site.

>

> You are very correct on everything you said about pellets.

> I am not surprised the big money influence may exist strong

> enough to try and capture TRT at the expense of us all.

>

> My endo has suddenly increased his cost for the individual

> procedures by about 4 or 5 times preparing for the new

> health care programs he anticipates are going to reduce his

> income per patient. Medicare in GA used to care for most of

> the cost for a man being treated for andropause with hormone

> pellets.

>

> ernestnolan

>

>

> >

> > " Had Testopel implants put in on 11-23-2009. Testopel

> raised my Total T level 30 points. 415 to 445. My opinion is

> Testopel was virtually worthless. $1000.00 pellets, $200.00

> office visit, $200.00 to have the Dr. implant them =

> $1400.00 "

> >

> > Having been on pellets for close to three years, and

> having talked with multiple TRT patients who went on pellets

> after trying other means of TRT and my current GP who is a

> top Sotopelle network doctor, I can tell you that your

> experience is NOT typical nor does it " mirror the

> experiences " of most TRT patients who are using pellets.

> >

> > I suspect a couple of things right off the bat. First,

> how many of the 75 mg testopel pellets did your doctor

> implant?  Where did he or she implant them?  How

> long after implantation did your doctor retest you?  Do

> you have sleep apnea? How much do you weigh?

> >

> > If your TRT is NOT being covered by any health plan,

> why did your

> > doctor use Testopel?

> >

> > Pellets often substantially reduce the aromitization

> of T to E2, and when compared to topical forms of TRT,

> pellets do not cause drastic increases in DHT. If the

> pellets are implanted correctly and in the right location,

> the release rate is very consistent.  In addition, you

> do not have to worry about transferring T to others nor do

> you have to worry about a daily or weekly doseage. 

> >

> >

> > Treating hypogonadism is by all means not a one size

> fits all, but I think there are some other variables that

> are at play here in your experience with T pellets

> >

> > You can purchase testosterone pellets from several

> different compounding pharmacies as well as from a Sotopelle

> network doctor for much less than what you are being charged

> for testopel.  In the US, testopel is the only FDA

> approved testosterone pellet available.  Not unless the

> FDA has changed their rules in the past two years, testopel

> is only available in 75 mg pellets(in europe larger pellets

> are readily available), and the only thing in these pellets

> that differs from the compounding pharmacy pellets is the

> binding ingredient.

> >

> > Following the Congressional hearings on the use of

> Steroids in Pro Baseball(what a waste of tax dollars),

> testosterone was elevated to a Cat III controlled substance,

> and this combined with the fact that the big pharmacuetical

> consortium in combination with the FDA saw that male HRT/TRT

> was going to be one of the next major cash cows in the

> pharmacy business, the stage was set for drastic increases

> in the price of all forms of T. 

> >

> > Because compounded creams and pellets can not be

> patented and becuase the big pharmacy consortium can not get

> a piece of the Compounding Pharmacy pie, the FDA is working

> to shut compounding pharmacies out of the HRT business.

> >

> > Androgel and Testim have patented means of suspending

> the T and then aiding its absorption that are patented. Were

> you not paying for that patent, both of these medicaions

> would be substantially cheaper.   

> >

> > During my TRT career I have used HCG, HMG, Androgel,

> Testim, Androderm(complete waste of money and

> time)Compounded T cream, Testopel, Sottopelle, Proviron,

> Andractim, Andriol and very briefly injected T.  My

> experience with injected T was so brief that I would defer

> to Phil or any of the other long time group members on that

> means of TRT. 

> >

> > However, after working with three different endos and

> a GP or two and participating in a hypogonadism study with

> Dr's Petilloude and Crowley at Harvard, I learned a thing or

> two along the way. Of all the above listed means of TRT, I

> found the custom compounding pharmacy T cream applied to the

> inner wrist area to be the most cost effective TRT for me to

> date. The only thing that I did not like about the

> compounded cream is having to apply it daily, taking the

> time to rub it in, and most of all the fact that the FDA put

> the cabosh to the pharmacy that was blending it for me.

> >

> > Some doctors consider pellets to be " old school " , but

> I have found that most of the doctors who claim this do not

> have the training and experience necessary to master the use

> of pellets as a form of TRT. For those of us who deal with

> very thick blood issues due to TRT, one of the first lines

> of and cheapest forms of treament is oddly enough what has

> been termed old school barbaric medicine--blood

> letting. 

> >

> > There are so many quacks out there trying to

> administer TRT who know very little about hypodonadism and

> the nuances and the delicate balances of male reproductive

> endocrinology, and if you happen to be stuck with an

> incompetent doctor, no form of TRT is going to achieve

> optimal results for you.  It has been said before, but

> I will say it again, when it comes to TRT, there is no one

> size fits all sort of treatment.  You will have to find

> what works best for you in combination with/balacned against

> out of pocket cost and side effects.

> >

> > Good luck with your journey.  It is worth it.

> >

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

I do not mean to high jack the post. Let me know if I should take this

to a new one.

>

> " Had Testopel implants put in on 11-23-2009. Testopel raised my Total

T level 30 points. 415 to 445. My opinion is Testopel was virtually

worthless. $1000.00 pellets, $200.00 office visit, $200.00 to have the

Dr. implant them = $1400.00 "

>

> Having been on pellets for close to three years, and having talked

with multiple TRT patients who went on pellets after trying other means

of TRT and my current GP who is a top Sotopelle network doctor, I can

tell you that your experience is NOT typical nor does it " mirror the

experiences " of most TRT patients who are using pellets.

>

> I suspect a couple of things right off the bat.

First, how many of the 75 mg testopel pellets did your doctor implant?

10

Where did he or she implant them? He put implanted the pellets in a " V "

pattern. 5 on one leg of the V and 5 on the other. If you are looking at

the side view of my body the pellets are about 2.5 " down from waist line

and 3.5 " over toward my butt crack.

How long after implantation did your doctor retest you? 1 month. The

pellets were implanted on 11-23-09. I was tested on 12-23-09.

Do you have sleep apnea? Yes. I use a CPAP machine. Why?

How much do you weigh? I'm about 5' 10 " . Weigh about 170-175.

>

> If your TRT is NOT being covered by any health plan, why did your

> doctor use Testopel? I have a 1000.00 deductable then its 80/20%. He

should have asked.

>

> Pellets often substantially reduce the aromitization of T to E2,...I

am having my estradiol checked Thursday. Last time it was checked was

1998. It was 41 in a range of <=50. At that same time my LH was a 1 in a

range of 1.3-12.9.... and when compared to topical forms of TRT, pellets

do not cause drastic increases in DHT. If the pellets are implanted

correctly and in the right location, the release rate is very

consistent. In addition, you do not have to worry about transferring T

to others nor do you have to worry about a daily or weekly doseage.

>...

....> Some doctors consider pellets to be " old school " , but I have found

that most of the doctors who claim this do not have the training and

experience necessary to master the use of pellets as a form of TRT. For

those of us who deal with very thick blood issues due to TRT, one of the

first lines of and cheapest forms of treament is oddly enough what has

been termed old school barbaric medicine--blood letting.

All of my chemistry test are normal as well as thyroid and parathyroid

etc. I do have osteopenia and osteoporosis.

Thanks

[Guest guest]

This is a redo of the above post cleaned up. Why does have a rich text

editor when the post don't show the advantages of using rich text?

I do not mean to high jack the post. Let me know if I should take this to a new

one.

I suspect a couple of things right off the bat.

First, how many of the 75 mg testopel pellets did your doctor implant? 10

Where did he or she implant them? He put implanted the pellets in a " V "

pattern. 5 on one leg of the V and 5 on the other. If you are looking at the

side view of my body the pellets are about 2.5 " down from waist line and 3.5 "

over toward my butt crack.

How long after implantation did your doctor retest you? 1 month. The

pellets were implanted on 11-23-09. I was tested on 12-23-09.

Do you have sleep apnea? Yes. I use a CPAP machine. Why?

How much do you weigh? I'm about 5' 10 " . Weigh about 170-175.

If your TRT is NOT being covered by any health plan, why did your

doctor use Testopel? I have a 1000.00 deductable then its 80/20%. He

should have asked.

Pellets often substantially reduce the aromitization of T to E2,...I

am having my estradiol checked Thursday. Last time it was checked was

1998. It was 41 in a range of <=50. At that same time my LH was a 1 in a range

of 1.3-12.9.... and when compared to topical forms of TRT, pellets do not cause

drastic increases in DHT. If the pellets are implanted correctly and in the

right location, the release rate is very consistent. In addition, you do not

have to worry about transferring T to others nor do you have to worry about a

daily or weekly doseage.

>...

....> Some doctors consider pellets to be " old school " , but I have found that

most of the doctors who claim this do not have the training and experience

necessary to master the use of pellets as a form of TRT. For those of us who

deal with very thick blood issues due to TRT, one of the first lines of and

cheapest forms of treament is oddly enough what has been termed old school

barbaric medicine--blood letting.

All of my chemistry test are normal as well as thyroid and parathyroid

etc. I do have osteopenia and osteoporosis.

Thanks