Re: Can progesterone be used to lower estradiol levels in men?

[Guest guest]

We have been going over this at Dr. 's forum the supper mod there chilln is

very good on this. In this link post #2 chilln as links about everything on

this.

http://www.musclechatroom.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15587

And post #6,#28,#43,#53 and read this thread about cortisol levels it's 2 pages.

http://www.musclechatroom.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13526

You will see in the first thread I got Prog. by accident thinking I was getting

20 mgs or Life-Flo pregnenolone. I was on this over 2 weeks before some one at

Dr. 's pointed out I was on Progesterone not Pregnenolone. I could not

believe how good I was feeling thinking it was the pregnenolone doing this. My

sex drive went nuts all I am thinking about is sex even dreaming about it my

wife told me get a girl friend.

Being on HCG I would test my pregnenolone levels to see if I was going to high

doing HCG my levels were very low in the range.

In the past I would tell men don't do pregnenolone it is a feminizing hormone

and will raise your Estradiol levels as per Dr. . Well I don't see this

happening to me yet I have all ways been low on my labs.

It is said you should not do both Prog. and Preg. at the same time. But I am

going to try this when my new order of Life-Flo Preg. 15mgs of cream comes in.

So far I am not having any problems with my Estradiol levels they are not any

better but not worse.

As for using Chrysin if you can find a good compounding Cream try it. I never

had much luck using Chrysin pills. As for Zinc yes we need it and it helps keep

E2 levels down but only a little. For every 50 mgs of Zinc you need to add 2

mgs of Copper Zinc lowers your Copper levels. I use ZMA Now brand for my Zinc

and take it at bedtime at noon I take 2 mgs of copper.

I have tired every thing out there to keep my E2 levels in check the only thing

that worked for me was Arimidex when I first tested my E2 levels they were above

the top of the range I did .5 mgs every other day of Arimidex and in 6 weeks my

levels came down to the top of the range. So we went on .5 mgs everyday and in

4 weeks my levels hit the sweet spot and I started getting night time and

morning wood so strong it woke me up. I was so dam hard I could hang a coat on

it.

But once I got my levels in the sweet spot I started going down to low. I was

going to low doing .25 mgs every 5 days. So I switched to Indolplex/DIM ended

up keeping my E2 levels in the sweet spot taking 1/2 a tablet a day.

Later on I add HCG to my TRT this is how I found out I am not Primary I am

Secondary my Testis work. My levels on HCG doubled and I felt great for the

first time on TRT in 23 yrs. But with the higher levels of TT I needed to go

back on Arimidex to keep my E2 levels in the sweet spot.

It's a small price to pay having high T levels and feeling great to have to take

some Arimidex to keep in the sweet spot.

I was having to take 1 mg. of Arimidex everyday until Chilln pointed out to me

that my E2 levels were so high because my night time Cortisol levels were so low

it was letting my T meds convert into E2.

So I added 5mgs of my HC meds Cortef at bedtime now all I need to keep in the

sweet spot is .25 mgs of Arimidex / day.

Men at Dr. 's forum are finding out taking pregnenolone cream is fixing

there low cortisol levels and as there cortisol levels come up there E2 levels

start to come down.

It's a work in progress.

I tell men if they tested on there E2 at above 30 but less then 50 try

Indolplex/DIM this brand there is a lot of junk DIM out there.

http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0

If ones E2 is over 50 you need Arimidex to get this down they try Indolplex/DIM

I don't use Indolplex/DIM I needed 2 tablets /day and it upsets my stomach.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: cvictorg <cvgrashow@...>

> Subject: Can progesterone be used to lower estradiol levels in

men?

>

> Date: Saturday, November 27, 2010, 12:44 PM

> My wife's hormone doctor went to this

> conference

>

> October, 2010 Advanced Bioidentical Hormone Replacement

> Therapy Medical Conference

>

> Among the notes she took were these

>

> Heretofore, Anastrozole (Arimidex) 0.5 mg 1-3 x per week

> has been prescribed to lower Estradiol. Arimidex is a breast

> cancer medication. Estrogen in the male must not get too low

> as Estrogen is necessary for a man's brain, heart, and bone

>

> A less toxic way to lower high Estrogen levels in men is to

> inhibit Aromatase with the following: Chrysin (a

> bioflavinoid) 250 mg po BID or TD, Zinc Citrate 30 mg TID,

> Progesterone 5-10 mg TD, AND decrease belly fat. Those 12

> month pregnancies I see in men increase the conversion of

> Testosterone to Estradiol

>

> What are the thoughts about using progesterone instead of

> Arimidex to lower high estrogen levels - this would

> certainly be a less toxic method without all the potential

> side effects

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

DH takes about 5mg of my topical progesterone nightly. It seems to help induce

sleep. I had read it counters high estrogen, just like in women, and had been

successfully used by men with BPH or prostate cancer. It's also supposed to

counter DHT. Phil said Dr. said it was not good for men, and that

pregnenolone was better. So I stopped the progesterone and started pregnenolone

and well, he didn't feel as well. So went back to the progesterone.

I take pregnenolone myself to boost my DHEA/testosterone with no problems. Am

going to try giving him pregnenolone before sex, because I read on another site

that can help if you have fatigue after sex, and he does. Sex may deplete his

cortisol, and both progesterone and pregnenolone can convert to cortisol.

Pregnenolone is not benign and large doses can result in heart palpitations. I

can't even take 5 mg at a time, but take 2.5 mg twice a week.

There are some studies that show chrysin to be ineffective, and apparently it's

destroyed in your digestion, so it should be used topically. Then I read

elsewhere that it can interfere with thyroid T4 to T3 conversion. So I've never

tried him on chrysin.

I think a huge thing doctors are overlooking is getting thyroid optimal. Excess

estrogen is supposed to be processed out in your liver, and if you have

suboptimal thyroid, you will have a sluggish liver. If you have suboptimal

thyroid, you may also have excess weight, which would raise belly fat and the

aromatase enzyme. Low thyroid also leads to low cortisol, and low cortisol

often enhances the estrogen pathway.

It's also possible that many have high estrogen because they're just plain

taking too much testosterone. If you only do labs right before your next shot,

you'll never know how high you peak. If you peak way over range, it would seem

logical to lower your dose and shoot more often. DH is now dosing 25 mg TC

every 5 days, 1 DIM at dinnertime, 2 grains Erfa thyroid + 25 mcg levothyroxine

and 5 mg progesterone daily. His mood is now the best I've seen in three years

of this roller coaster ride (too high or too low) with thyroid, HC, testosterone

cream, high estradiol with the red face (which brought me here), and then the

switch to TC shots.

Barb

>

> My wife's hormone doctor went to this conference

>

> October, 2010 Advanced Bioidentical Hormone Replacement Therapy Medical

Conference

>

> Among the notes she took were these

>

> Heretofore, Anastrozole (Arimidex) 0.5 mg 1-3 x per week has been prescribed

to lower Estradiol. Arimidex is a breast cancer medication. Estrogen in the male

must not get too low as Estrogen is necessary for a man's brain, heart, and bone

>

> A less toxic way to lower high Estrogen levels in men is to inhibit Aromatase

with the following: Chrysin (a bioflavinoid) 250 mg po BID or TD, Zinc Citrate

30 mg TID, Progesterone 5-10 mg TD, AND decrease belly fat. Those 12 month

pregnancies I see in men increase the conversion of Testosterone to Estradiol

>

> What are the thoughts about using progesterone instead of Arimidex to lower

high estrogen levels - this would certainly be a less toxic method without all

the potential side effects

>

[Guest guest]

Well you've heard me complain about DH's non lack of libido LOL! Maybe it's the

progesterone! I am keeping him on the daily progesterone but will give him 2.5

mg pregnenolone on days we have sex and see if that helps. Logically, it

doesn't make sense to supplement both, or maybe if you did, you'd need to cut

the dose of each. Even when his estradiol was high, he has always had good

libido. When his thyroid/cortisol were very low, he may not have been able to

catch me, but he wanted to LOL!

Barb

> > >

> > > My wife's hormone doctor went to this conference

> > >

> > > October, 2010 Advanced Bioidentical Hormone

> > Replacement Therapy Medical Conference

> > >

> > > Among the notes she took were these

> > >

> > > Heretofore, Anastrozole (Arimidex) 0.5 mg 1-3 x per

> > week has been prescribed to lower Estradiol. Arimidex is a

> > breast cancer medication. Estrogen in the male must not get

> > too low as Estrogen is necessary for a man's brain, heart,

> > and bone

> > >

> > > A less toxic way to lower high Estrogen levels in men

> > is to inhibit Aromatase with the following: Chrysin (a

> > bioflavinoid) 250 mg po BID or TD, Zinc Citrate 30 mg TID,

> > Progesterone 5-10 mg TD, AND decrease belly fat. Those 12

> > month pregnancies I see in men increase the conversion of

> > Testosterone to Estradiol

> > >

> > > What are the thoughts about using progesterone instead

> > of Arimidex to lower high estrogen levels - this would

> > certainly be a less toxic method without all the potential

> > side effects

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

My last labtest from Lab Corp shows an estradiol level of 38 - my doc wants it

between 20-25 BUT the idea of taking an anti-cancer drug to do this concerns

me. Is anyone here worried about long-term usage of Arimidex and possibe sides??

> > > > >

> > > > > My wife's hormone doctor went to this

> > conference

> > > > >

> > > > > October, 2010 Advanced Bioidentical Hormone

> > > > Replacement Therapy Medical Conference

> > > > >

> > > > > Among the notes she took were these

> > > > >

> > > > > Heretofore, Anastrozole (Arimidex) 0.5 mg

> > 1-3 x per

> > > > week has been prescribed to lower Estradiol.

> > Arimidex is a

> > > > breast cancer medication. Estrogen in the male

> > must not get

> > > > too low as Estrogen is necessary for a man's

> > brain, heart,

> > > > and bone

> > > > >

> > > > > A less toxic way to lower high Estrogen

> > levels in men

> > > > is to inhibit Aromatase with the following:

> > Chrysin (a

> > > > bioflavinoid) 250 mg po BID or TD, Zinc Citrate

> > 30 mg TID,

> > > > Progesterone 5-10 mg TD, AND decrease belly fat.

> > Those 12

> > > > month pregnancies I see in men increase the

> > conversion of

> > > > Testosterone to Estradiol

> > > > >

> > > > > What are the thoughts about using

> > progesterone instead

> > > > of Arimidex to lower high estrogen levels - this

> > would

> > > > certainly be a less toxic method without all the

> > potential

> > > > side effects

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Well, Arimidex is not an anti-caner drug in the sense of being chemotherapy.

It's just an aromatase inhibitor. It's used in breast cancer to remove the last

source of estrogen to the tumor, not to kill the tumor directly.

For women taking the full dose of 1 mg per day, there are the usual effects of

driving estrogen too low (osteoporosis, etc.), plus raising cholesterol. I've

been on it for several years, now at a tiny dose (that's all I need to stay in

the 20-25 range), and have noticed nothing adverse from it. No change in

cholesterol. It will, however, materially increase your testosterone level

without any T supplementation.

I think the biggest downside of Arimidex is the risk of taking E2 too low, which

can be prevented by regular testing. I have found that I've needed less and

less as time goes on, probably because as my body got leaner, I produced less

and less aromatase. But I have used the liquid version, which is not exactly

legal, because it lets me adjust the dose in fine increments - you can't do that

with tablets.

I don't know about progesterone. If that works to lower E2, it could be an

interesting development.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My wife's hormone doctor went to this

> > > conference

> > > > > >

> > > > > > October, 2010 Advanced Bioidentical Hormone

> > > > > Replacement Therapy Medical Conference

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Among the notes she took were these

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Heretofore, Anastrozole (Arimidex) 0.5 mg

> > > 1-3 x per

> > > > > week has been prescribed to lower Estradiol.

> > > Arimidex is a

> > > > > breast cancer medication. Estrogen in the male

> > > must not get

> > > > > too low as Estrogen is necessary for a man's

> > > brain, heart,

> > > > > and bone

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A less toxic way to lower high Estrogen

> > > levels in men

> > > > > is to inhibit Aromatase with the following:

> > > Chrysin (a

> > > > > bioflavinoid) 250 mg po BID or TD, Zinc Citrate

> > > 30 mg TID,

> > > > > Progesterone 5-10 mg TD, AND decrease belly fat.

> > > Those 12

> > > > > month pregnancies I see in men increase the

> > > conversion of

> > > > > Testosterone to Estradiol

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What are the thoughts about using

> > > progesterone instead

> > > > > of Arimidex to lower high estrogen levels - this

> > > would

> > > > > certainly be a less toxic method without all the

> > > potential

> > > > > side effects

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > >

> > > > >