Re: new here, need help with lab results & hormone problems

[Guest guest]

Hi mysticalstardancer and Welcome,

I see a lot wrong here first is your low Testosterone and higher levels of

Estradiol yet what T you have is not bound up your Free is high. But and this

is a big But Free T is only 1 to 2% of all the Testosterone in your body. So if

you do the math having a higher Free T is not saying much when your taking 1 to

2% from a Total T level of 191 this is not much like nothing from nothing is

nothing.

Your Estradiol is high needs to come down best at 20 pg/ml when most men are at

this sweet spot level they have night time and morning wood from rem sleep this

is a dam good gage to tell how your Estradiol are doing.

My first test my TT was 120 yet I had no problems with having sex with my wife.

If you have ED and a loss of your libido it's your high Estradiol levels.

In most men higher levels of Estradiol will show a lower LH and FSH now this is

the message that your brain " Pituitary " sends to your testis to tell them to

make more Testosterone. Looking at your labs your TT being this low with a low

LH and FSH would mean your Secondary you might have a Pituitary problem.

But you need to get your Estradiol levels down and redo your labs. Don't go on

TRT yet you need to find out why your so low.

If you get your Estradiol down and redo your lab and find your LH and FSH is

still this low then you need an MRI on your Pituitary to rule out a tumor.

Don't get upset it's rare to be cancer.

Also high Estradiol can mess with Thyroid your TSH is above 2 this is a flag

going up so get your Estradiol down and retest your Thyroid levels.

Your Vit. D is very low watch this link about it and get on some Vit. D get them

levels up you will feel better.

http://www.uvadvantage.org/portals/0/pres/

I take drops to keep my levels up " Bio-D-Mulsion Forte each drop is 2000 IU's I

do 10 drops each morning I put them on the back of my hand and lick it off.

http://lifeforce.site.aplus.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD & Product_Code=\

BIOD & Category_Code=SUPP6 & Product_Count=2

One thing you will need to do once you start treatment is to get some exercise

and lose weight. Doing this will help keep your Estradiol levels down.

To lower your Estradiol E2 levels ask your Dr. for some Arimidex take 1/2 of the

1mg. pill every other day. When your levels are good you will have some strong

night time and morning wood so strong it will wake you up this means your at

your best level.

Keep taking the Arimidex but is your wood stops your going down to low on your

E2 so stop taking it until your wood comes back that day go back on this but

take 1/4 of the 1 mg pill every 3 days.

If you can't get your Dr. to give you Arimidex get some Indolplex/DIM it's a

supplement sold OTC get this brand I know it works.

http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0

Take one tablet at dinner time when you get your levels down your going to feel

much better high levels of E2 can make you feel like crap like Panic Attacks in

the middle of the night, holding water, feeling hot and sweating all day and

night, looking red on your upper body and face and sore and hard nipples.

Also drink more water try to get in 8 gless's a day you look Dehydrated.

We have a links and files section at the home page on the left side of your

screen it's full of info about your problem go there and read up on this so when

your talking to your Dr. you can tell is he is doing right by you. A lot of

Dr.'s are not up on this and if your Dr. tries to send you to see an Endo don't

waste your time or money they are not good Dr.'s for male hormones.

Go to Dr. 's site and read TRT: A Recipe for Success and his HCG update he

puts this out there free for you and your Dr. He is one of the best male

hormone Dr.'s out there.

www.allthingsmale.com

Here are a few links you can read to get you started.

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=450553

http://www.griffinmedical.com/male_hormone_modulation_therapy.html

This following links are about high E2 levels in this link it's about older men

but I see this in younger men too.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174

http://www.medibolics.com/ArimidexBoostsTestosterone.htm

High levels of E2 are a danger for all age men.

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2008/nov2008_Dangers-of-Excess-Estrogen-in-the-Ag\

ing-Male_01.htm

I hope this helps you if you have more questions just ask.

Bio-D-Mulsion Forte "

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: mysticalstardancer <mysticalstardancer@...>

> Subject: new here, need help with lab results & hormone

problems

>

> Date: Sunday, October 10, 2010, 10:29 PM

> New here, need help with these lab

> results & hormone problems.

> 23 year old male, lots of strange symptoms for years.

> Family history of complicated hormonal issues (mother and

> sister each since age 11-12, sometimes serious), father

> possible hormonal issues too, but he's elsewhere w/ no

> contact for years.

> Can anyone explain what this means? Don't trust doctors-

> too many bad experiences with some in the past.

> Thanks.

>

> lab tests 7/30/10

> Rx antidepressant Celexa 40mg/day

> LIPID PANEL:

> Cholesterol, Total   195

> mg/dL   125-200 

> HDL Cholesterol   42

> mg/dL   > or = 40   

> Triglycerides   181

> mg/dL   <150   ***HIGH***

> LDL Cholesterol Calc   117

> mg/dL   <130

> Chol/HDL Ratio   4.6   <

> or = 5.0

>

> BASIC METABOLIC PANEL W/EGFR:

> Glucose   81

> mg/dL   65-99   Fasting

> reference interval

> Urea Nitrogen (BUN)   15

> mg/dL   7 - 25

> Creatinine, Serum   1.00

> mg/dL   0.80 – 1.30

> eGFR   >60

> mL/min/1.73m2   > or = 60

> BUN/Creatinine

> Ratio   n/a   6 –

> 22   

> BUN/Creatinine Ratiois  not reported when the BUN

> & creatinine values are within normal limits.

> Sodium   139

> mmol/L   135-146

> Potassium   4.4 mmol/L   3.5

> – 5.3

> Chloride   104 mmol/L   98

> – 110

> Carbon Dioxide   23

> mmol/L   21 – 33

> Calcium   9.5 mg/dL   8.6 –

> 10.2

>

> VITAMIN D, 25 HYDROXY, LC/MS/MS:

> Vitamin D, 25-OH, Total   13

> ng/mL   30 –

> 100   ***LOW***

> 25-OHD3 indicates both endogenous production and

> supplementation. 25-OHD2 is an indicator of exogenous

> sources, such as diet or supplementation. Therapy is based

> on measurement of Total 25-OHD, with levels <20 ng/mL

> indicative of Vitamin D deficiency, while levels between 20

> ng/mL and 30 ng/mL suggest insufficiency. Optimal levels are

> > or = 30 ng/mL.

> Vitamin D, 25-OH, D3   13

> ng/mL   Reference range not established

> Vitamin D, 25-OH, D2   <4

> ng/mL   Reference range not established

>

> Magnesium, RBC   4.3

> mg/dL   4.0-6.4

>

> HEPATIC FUNCTION PANEL:

> Protein, Total   7.9

> g/dL   6.2 – 8.3

> Albumin   4.6 g/dL   3.6 –

> 5.1

> Globulin   3.3 g/dL   2.1 –

> 3.7

> Albumin/Globulin

> Ratio   1.4   1.0 – 2.1

> Bilirubin, Total   0.5

> mg/dL   0.2 – 1.2

> Bilirubin, Direct   0.1

> mg/dL   < or = 0.2

> Bilirubin, Indirect   0.4

> mg/dL   0.2 – 1.2

> Alkaline Phosphatase, S   86

> U/L   40 - 115

> AST   24 U/L   10 – 40

> ALT   30 U/L   9 – 60

>

> TSH, 3rd Generation   

>    2.54   mIU/L   

>    0.40 - 4.50

> T4, Free   0.9 ng/dL   0.8

> – 1.8

> T3, Free   364 pg/dL   230

> – 420

>

> Calcium, RBC   none detected

> mg/dL   8.6 – 10.2

> Reporting Limit 0.10 mg/dL

> NMS Labs derived data:

> 10th-90th Percentile Data:

> Mean: 0.15 mg/dL +/- 0.04 (SD); range, 0.1-2.3 mg/dL (N =

> 351).

>

> TESTOSTERONE, FREE AND TOTAL, LC/MS/MS:

> Testosterone, Total   187

> ng/dL   250-1100 ***LOW***

> % Free

> Testosterone   3.27   1.5-2.2

> ***HIGH***

> Testosterone, Free   61.1

> pg/mL   35.0-155.0

>

> Pregnenolone   96

> ng/dL   13-208

>

> CBC (includes DIFF/PLT):

> White Blood Cell Count   7.6

> K/uL   3.8–10.8

> Red Blood Cell Count   4.97

> M/uL   4.20–5.80

> Hemoglobin    15.5

> g/dL   13.2–17.1

> Hematocrit   46.7

> %   38.5–50.0

> MCV   93.9 fL   80.0–100.0

>

> MCH   31.2 pg   27.0–33.0

> MCHC   33.3

> g/dL   32.0–36.0

> RDW   13.3 %   11.0–15.0

> Platelet Count   205

> K/uL   140-400

> Absolute Neutrophils   4720

> cells/uL   1500 – 7800

> Absolute Lymphocytes   2379

> cells/uL   850-3900 

> Absolute Monocytes   388

> cells/uL   200-950

> Absolute Eosinophils   91

> cells/uL   15-500

> Absolute Basophils   23

> cells/uL   0-200

> Neutrophils   62.1 %

> Lymphocytes   31.3 %

> Monocytes   5.1 %

> Eosinophils   1.2 %

> Basophils   0.3 %

>

> IRON AND TOTAL IRON BINDING CAPACITY:

> Iron, Total   114

> mcg/dL   45-175

> Iron Binding Capacity   267

> mcg/dL   250-425

> % Saturation   43 %   20-50

>

> Ferritin   327 ng/mL   20 –

> 345

> Vitamin B12   563

> pg/mL   200-1000

>

> Folate, Serum   7.8 ng/mL

> Reference range:   Low:

> <3.4   Borderline:

> 3.4-5.4   Normal: >5.4

>

> Insulin   16 uIU/mL   <17

> Insulin analogues may demonstrate non-linear

> cross-reactivity in this assay. Interpret results

> accordingly.

>

> Estradiol   41 pg/mL   13-54

>

> Cortisol, A.M.   18.0 mcg/dL   

>    

> Reference range:   8 a.m. (7-9 a.m.)

> Specimen: 4.0-22.0

>

> ………………………………………………

>

> lab tests 8/13/10

> TESTOSTERONE, FREE AND TOTAL, LC/MS/MS:

> Testosterone, Total   191

> ng/dL   250-1100 ***LOW***

> RESULTS CONFIRMED BY REPEAT ANALYSIS.   

> % Free Testosterone   4.49

> %   1.5-2.2 ***HIGH***

> RESULTS CONFIRMED BY REPEAT ANALYSIS

> Testosterone, Free   85.7

> pg/mL   35.0-155.0

> FSH   2.2 mIU/mL   1.6-8.0

> LH   1.9 mIU/mL   1.5-9.3

> ……………………………………………..

>

> Osteoporosis Assessment 8/31/10   

> 23 y/o male   Ht 72 " Wt

> 275   *low testosterone

>

> COMBINED SCAN-FEMUR AND SPINE (COMBSCAN)

> BONE MINREAL ASSESSMENT

>

> SPINE:   (AP)

> T Score- Young Normal Standard*

> -1.3   Osteopenia (1-2.5 S.D. below mean)

> Z Score

> -1.3   Age matched control

>

> VERTEBRAL ASSESSMENT:

> Evidence of degenerative changes?   YES

> Evidence of vertebral fracture?   NO

>

> HIP:   (Femoral neck)

> T Score- Young Normal Standard*

> +0.2   Within normal limits

> Z Score

> +0.2   Age matched control

>

> *There is an approximate two fold increase in fracture risk

> for each S.D. below mean (T score value).

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

I note some similarities in your tests to mine,....or I should say trends based

upon your age anyway.

Are you a big beer/alcohol drinker by any chance?

Your liver functions are well within range, but considerably higher than what

mine ran when I was 40, and you are much younger than that. Like Phil said, your

estradiol is also high, and your TSH is not good.

Your ferritin is still within range but also heading up there for a male your

age.

If your answer to my question is yes on the drinking,.....you may fix a lot of

this by simply quitting. The liver is involved in so much of this stuff, and

alcohol is very hard on it needless to say.

I have been a big beer drinker that just recently quit. Simply throwing some

ideas your way.

[Guest guest]

Phil,

Thank you for providing so much info and suggestions. Actually, I'm trying to

help my son who is so stressed over so many health issues for so long, and has

seen me end up disabled and extremely ill at times because of doctors insisting

there's nothing wrong, or misdiagnosing me and making me worse... and he is

afraid that he may end up like me. He knows I've learned more than most doctors

about hormones due to my own lifelong hormone issues, and done more for my own

health issues than ANY doctor. The ones in this area are even worse than most.

So now I'm trying to learn about male hormones.

He is so discouraged by years of his health problems getting worse, and going to

various doctors but none understand hormones so they do nothing or else do

things that make him worse- such as the antidepressant, that caused a lot of

weight gain and other things (possibly messed up his sex hormones???). He needed

his thyroid treated, and maybe adrenals too- not an antidepressant, which makes

thyroid even worse.

The doctor that he goes to is the best one for hormones, but still didn't know

what tests to do. So I sent him with a list. Some were ordered but some were

not.

We started reading the files and links sections but there's so much info there

so we weren't sure what to start with. I'm reading the info and links that you

sent, and learning a lot.

Interesting that you mention Estradiol... doctor wasn't concerned about it but

i'm wondering about it since it can cause problems with thyroid and other

hormones. I also thought we should try to lower it first, and see what effect

that has on the other things.

In researching my own hormone problems, I had run across info on high estrogen

in men, and various things to do for it. One thing was bioidentical

progesterone. That was a miracle for me, like the missing piece of the puzzle

that was needed to help lots of things. It helped regulate my thyroid and

adrenal issues also. Last year he and I both wondered about him trying it, but

decided against it since we don't know much about it in men and didn't want to

make things worse. But he got so much worse anyway that maybe we should've tried

it...

I also thought he should FIRST have more tests done for certain things that

haven't been tested, to try and determine what the problem is instead of just

treating the symptoms and possibly making the actual cause worse, as was done to

me. Then do things to lower his estrogen. Then if hormones didn't get better on

their own, maybe try adding some. But his doctor immediately put him on testim,

which he started on Saturday (I think).

And the doctor also suspects pit problems and referred him to an endo- but most

people's experience with endos is that they know less about hormones than family

doctors and what little they know is usually wrong. It takes 3-5 months to get a

new patient appt with this one who is supposed to be best of the few here.

His D level was same as mine when I finally found someone to test it in Feb. Doc

gave him prescription d2, but after a month he switched to the non-Rx d3 that

works so well for me. He is feeling somewhat better, not as exhausted and achy.

Has started exercising (walking a lot, riding bicycle, going to health club at

friend's apt as often as possible), and in a month has lost 10 lbs. He also

started drinking water instead of other unhealthy things. He rarely drinks

alcohol... (has seen too many people with drinking problems...)

So, since he's already started the testim, do you have any suggestions,

do's/dont's, etc???

Would it be worth my time to try to find out more about progesterone and men???

thanks again for the info and suggestions!

>

> > From: mysticalstardancer <mysticalstardancer@...>

> > Subject: new here, need help with lab results & hormone

problems

> >

> > Date: Sunday, October 10, 2010, 10:29 PM

> > New here, need help with these lab

> > results & hormone problems.

> > 23 year old male, lots of strange symptoms for years.

> > Family history of complicated hormonal issues (mother and

> > sister each since age 11-12, sometimes serious), father

> > possible hormonal issues too, but he's elsewhere w/ no

> > contact for years.

> > Can anyone explain what this means? Don't trust doctors-

> > too many bad experiences with some in the past.

> > Thanks.

> >

> > lab tests 7/30/10

> > Rx antidepressant Celexa 40mg/day

> > LIPID PANEL:

> > Cholesterol, Total   195

> > mg/dL   125-200 

> > HDL Cholesterol   42

> > mg/dL   > or = 40   

> > Triglycerides   181

> > mg/dL   <150   ***HIGH***

> > LDL Cholesterol Calc   117

> > mg/dL   <130

> > Chol/HDL Ratio   4.6   <

> > or = 5.0

> >

> > BASIC METABOLIC PANEL W/EGFR:

> > Glucose   81

> > mg/dL   65-99   Fasting

> > reference interval

> > Urea Nitrogen (BUN)   15

> > mg/dL   7 - 25

> > Creatinine, Serum   1.00

> > mg/dL   0.80 †" 1.30

> > eGFR   >60

> > mL/min/1.73m2   > or = 60

> > BUN/Creatinine

> > Ratio   n/a   6 †"

> > 22   

> > BUN/Creatinine Ratiois  not reported when the BUN

> > & creatinine values are within normal limits.

> > Sodium   139

> > mmol/L   135-146

> > Potassium   4.4 mmol/L   3.5

> > †" 5.3

> > Chloride   104 mmol/L   98

> > †" 110

> > Carbon Dioxide   23

> > mmol/L   21 †" 33

> > Calcium   9.5 mg/dL   8.6 †"

> > 10.2

> >

> > VITAMIN D, 25 HYDROXY, LC/MS/MS:

> > Vitamin D, 25-OH, Total   13

> > ng/mL   30 †"

> > 100   ***LOW***

> > 25-OHD3 indicates both endogenous production and

> > supplementation. 25-OHD2 is an indicator of exogenous

> > sources, such as diet or supplementation. Therapy is based

> > on measurement of Total 25-OHD, with levels <20 ng/mL

> > indicative of Vitamin D deficiency, while levels between 20

> > ng/mL and 30 ng/mL suggest insufficiency. Optimal levels are

> > > or = 30 ng/mL.

> > Vitamin D, 25-OH, D3   13

> > ng/mL   Reference range not established

> > Vitamin D, 25-OH, D2   <4

> > ng/mL   Reference range not established

> >

> > Magnesium, RBC   4.3

> > mg/dL   4.0-6.4

> >

> > HEPATIC FUNCTION PANEL:

> > Protein, Total   7.9

> > g/dL   6.2 †" 8.3

> > Albumin   4.6 g/dL   3.6 †"

> > 5.1

> > Globulin   3.3 g/dL   2.1 †"

> > 3.7

> > Albumin/Globulin

> > Ratio   1.4   1.0 †" 2.1

> > Bilirubin, Total   0.5

> > mg/dL   0.2 †" 1.2

> > Bilirubin, Direct   0.1

> > mg/dL   < or = 0.2

> > Bilirubin, Indirect   0.4

> > mg/dL   0.2 †" 1.2

> > Alkaline Phosphatase, S   86

> > U/L   40 - 115

> > AST   24 U/L   10 †" 40

> > ALT   30 U/L   9 †" 60

> >

> > TSH, 3rd Generation   

> >    2.54   mIU/L   

> >    0.40 - 4.50

> > T4, Free   0.9 ng/dL   0.8

> > †" 1.8

> > T3, Free   364 pg/dL   230

> > †" 420

> >

> > Calcium, RBC   none detected

> > mg/dL   8.6 †" 10.2

> > Reporting Limit 0.10 mg/dL

> > NMS Labs derived data:

> > 10th-90th Percentile Data:

> > Mean: 0.15 mg/dL +/- 0.04 (SD); range, 0.1-2.3 mg/dL (N =

> > 351).

> >

> > TESTOSTERONE, FREE AND TOTAL, LC/MS/MS:

> > Testosterone, Total   187

> > ng/dL   250-1100 ***LOW***

> > % Free

> > Testosterone   3.27   1.5-2.2

> > ***HIGH***

> > Testosterone, Free   61.1

> > pg/mL   35.0-155.0

> >

> > Pregnenolone   96

> > ng/dL   13-208

> >

> > CBC (includes DIFF/PLT):

> > White Blood Cell Count   7.6

> > K/uL   3.8†" 10.8

> > Red Blood Cell Count   4.97

> > M/uL   4.20†" 5.80

> > Hemoglobin    15.5

> > g/dL   13.2†" 17.1

> > Hematocrit   46.7

> > %   38.5†" 50.0

> > MCV   93.9 fL   80.0†" 100.0

> >

> > MCH   31.2 pg   27.0†" 33.0

> > MCHC   33.3

> > g/dL   32.0†" 36.0

> > RDW   13.3 %   11.0†" 15.0

> > Platelet Count   205

> > K/uL   140-400

> > Absolute Neutrophils   4720

> > cells/uL   1500 †" 7800

> > Absolute Lymphocytes   2379

> > cells/uL   850-3900 

> > Absolute Monocytes   388

> > cells/uL   200-950

> > Absolute Eosinophils   91

> > cells/uL   15-500

> > Absolute Basophils   23

> > cells/uL   0-200

> > Neutrophils   62.1 %

> > Lymphocytes   31.3 %

> > Monocytes   5.1 %

> > Eosinophils   1.2 %

> > Basophils   0.3 %

> >

> > IRON AND TOTAL IRON BINDING CAPACITY:

> > Iron, Total   114

> > mcg/dL   45-175

> > Iron Binding Capacity   267

> > mcg/dL   250-425

> > % Saturation   43 %   20-50

> >

> > Ferritin   327 ng/mL   20 †"

> > 345

> > Vitamin B12   563

> > pg/mL   200-1000

> >

> > Folate, Serum   7.8 ng/mL

> > Reference range:   Low:

> > <3.4   Borderline:

> > 3.4-5.4   Normal: >5.4

> >

> > Insulin   16 uIU/mL   <17

> > Insulin analogues may demonstrate non-linear

> > cross-reactivity in this assay. Interpret results

> > accordingly.

> >

> > Estradiol   41 pg/mL   13-54

> >

> > Cortisol, A.M.   18.0 mcg/dL   

> >    

> > Reference range:   8 a.m. (7-9 a.m.)

> > Specimen: 4.0-22.0

> >

> > ………………………………………………

> >

> > lab tests 8/13/10

> > TESTOSTERONE, FREE AND TOTAL, LC/MS/MS:

> > Testosterone, Total   191

> > ng/dL   250-1100 ***LOW***

> > RESULTS CONFIRMED BY REPEAT ANALYSIS.   

> > % Free Testosterone   4.49

> > %   1.5-2.2 ***HIGH***

> > RESULTS CONFIRMED BY REPEAT ANALYSIS

> > Testosterone, Free   85.7

> > pg/mL   35.0-155.0

> > FSH   2.2 mIU/mL   1.6-8.0

> > LH   1.9 mIU/mL   1.5-9.3

> > ……………………………………………..

> >

> > Osteoporosis Assessment 8/31/10   

> > 23 y/o male   Ht 72 " Wt

> > 275   *low testosterone

> >

> > COMBINED SCAN-FEMUR AND SPINE (COMBSCAN)

> > BONE MINREAL ASSESSMENT

> >

> > SPINE:   (AP)

> > T Score- Young Normal Standard*

> > -1.3   Osteopenia (1-2.5 S.D. below mean)

> > Z Score

> > -1.3   Age matched control

> >

> > VERTEBRAL ASSESSMENT:

> > Evidence of degenerative changes?   YES

> > Evidence of vertebral fracture?   NO

> >

> > HIP:   (Femoral neck)

> > T Score- Young Normal Standard*

> > +0.2   Within normal limits

> > Z Score

> > +0.2   Age matched control

> >

> > *There is an approximate two fold increase in fracture risk

> > for each S.D. below mean (T score value).

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

marc,

Thanks for the info. I am his mother with my own hormone issues and now trying

to learn about male hormones also, becausehe is so stressed about all this and

how complicated it is.

He rarely drinks- seen too many with drinking problems ruining their lives and

affecting their jobs- but yes the liver has a big effect on hormone metabolism.

Inflammation can cause ferritin results to go up. I think we both have lots of

inflammation- but I can't figure out why. In women, progesterone is supposed to

have a good effect on inflammation and too much estradiol a bad effect on lots

of things. So could too much estradiol and not enough progesterone be affecting

his liver and possibly causing the inflammation? Doc isn't concerned about

estradiol- but I am. And would liver function test optimal results be the same

for women as for men? Now you have me wondering about mine...

His doc started him on testim- but I think more tests should've been done first,

to determine where the problem is, instead of just treating one of the symptoms.

I'm afraid this may complicate it even more now.

Thanks for your help!

>

>

>

> I note some similarities in your tests to mine,....or I should say trends

based upon your age anyway.

>

> Are you a big beer/alcohol drinker by any chance?

> Your liver functions are well within range, but considerably higher than what

mine ran when I was 40, and you are much younger than that. Like Phil said, your

estradiol is also high, and your TSH is not good.

>

> Your ferritin is still within range but also heading up there for a male your

age.

>

> If your answer to my question is yes on the drinking,.....you may fix a lot of

this by simply quitting. The liver is involved in so much of this stuff, and

alcohol is very hard on it needless to say.

> I have been a big beer drinker that just recently quit. Simply throwing some

ideas your way.

>

[Guest guest]

Hopefully someone with more knowledge than I, will chime in on this.

I was simply asking about drinking since I have knowledge unfortunately,.....but

not in the way that you spoke of. When I was his age I drank big time.

I believe the ranges for liver function are the same. His are well within

range,.....I was simply pointing out a possibility that you have removed. My

AST/ALT were considerably lower than his at 40, and I am close to 49 now.

I pretty much saw the age, and a male,.....I went from there.

He sure should have his Estradiol tested. Mine is high, as is my ferritin!

>

> marc,

> Thanks for the info. I am his mother with my own hormone issues and now trying

to learn about male hormones also, becausehe is so stressed about all this and

how complicated it is.

>

> He rarely drinks- seen too many with drinking problems ruining their lives and

affecting their jobs- but yes the liver has a big effect on hormone metabolism.

>

> Inflammation can cause ferritin results to go up. I think we both have lots of

inflammation- but I can't figure out why. In women, progesterone is supposed to

have a good effect on inflammation and too much estradiol a bad effect on lots

of things. So could too much estradiol and not enough progesterone be affecting

his liver and possibly causing the inflammation? Doc isn't concerned about

estradiol- but I am. And would liver function test optimal results be the same

for women as for men? Now you have me wondering about mine...

>

> His doc started him on testim- but I think more tests should've been done

first, to determine where the problem is, instead of just treating one of the

symptoms. I'm afraid this may complicate it even more now.

>

> Thanks for your help!

>

[Guest guest]

Estradiol 41 pg/mL 13-54

This is within the normal range, but considering his other hormone problems and

especially his symptoms, I'm thinking maybe it would be better if it was lower.

I'm reading some links that someone else sent, and one of them has a section

about inflammation in men with high estradiol and low testosterone.

Yes, most his age drink a lot... and if he wasn't always feeling so bad and so

exhausted after work, I'm thinking he might go out sometimes. But he's usually

too tired to do most of what he wants to do.

> >

> > marc,

> > Thanks for the info. I am his mother with my own hormone issues and now

trying to learn about male hormones also, becausehe is so stressed about all

this and how complicated it is.

> >

> > He rarely drinks- seen too many with drinking problems ruining their lives

and affecting their jobs- but yes the liver has a big effect on hormone

metabolism.

> >

> > Inflammation can cause ferritin results to go up. I think we both have lots

of inflammation- but I can't figure out why. In women, progesterone is supposed

to have a good effect on inflammation and too much estradiol a bad effect on

lots of things. So could too much estradiol and not enough progesterone be

affecting his liver and possibly causing the inflammation? Doc isn't concerned

about estradiol- but I am. And would liver function test optimal results be the

same for women as for men? Now you have me wondering about mine...

> >

> > His doc started him on testim- but I think more tests should've been done

first, to determine where the problem is, instead of just treating one of the

symptoms. I'm afraid this may complicate it even more now.

> >

> > Thanks for your help!

> >

>

[Guest guest]

E2 is way too high,....especially for his age.

Mine was 52 on the same scale which appears to be the Quest #4021 test.

His total T is VERY low. Mine was 209 at one point, but somehow came up to 323

without doing anything. No wonder the poor guy feels like garbage.

As Phil often says,......E2 should be around 20, and no higher than 30 for a

male on that scale.

Wish I could tell you something, but there are others here that know far more

than I do,....I have learned from them.

I was also prescribed Testim, but have refused to start it so far.

He needs a better doc. I am dealing with the same thing myself. Often you have

to go through a dozen to find one that knows what they are doing.

As low as he is he might feel better starting the T treatment, but it might also

make his E2 go even higher. Good luck finding a doctor that will treat that part

of the equation. I finally have a scrip for Arimidex, but am waiting to see

another doc the end of the month.

BTW,.....thanks for your reply on my thread.

>

> Estradiol 41 pg/mL 13-54

> This is within the normal range, but considering his other hormone problems

and especially his symptoms, I'm thinking maybe it would be better if it was

lower.

> I'm reading some links that someone else sent, and one of them has a section

about inflammation in men with high estradiol and low testosterone.

> Yes, most his age drink a lot... and if he wasn't always feeling so bad and so

exhausted after work, I'm thinking he might go out sometimes. But he's usually

too tired to do most of what he wants to do.

>

[Guest guest]

I feel your pain no Testim is ok just make sure if he sees this Endo that he

dose not let him take him off the Testim to do what they call base line labs

there is not such thing all this will do is make him crash and burn. I had this

happen to me 7 x's in the last 29 yrs seeing Endo's. Yet this yr. I read 2

posts were men found a good one.

If he dose not have night time and morning wood or can't get it up for sex and

sweats easy or feels hot, has shore and hard nipples at times and has angzixty

get him tested for Estraidol go to this link and order it call them tell them

you want the Senitive test for Estradiol for men they will send him to Labcorp

for the blood work.

If he is high get him on some Indolplex/DIM or buy some Arimidex from over seas

at the ADC.

https://www.alldaychemist.com/75_Arimidex-1mg

If you try this let me know what his Estradiol labs come back at I will tell you

how to take this.

Or get the Indolplex/DIM it works good but slower.

http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0

Read this file I made about starting on gels.

===================================================

Starting on Androgel or Testim.

Yes this happens a lot you start on a low starting dose 5 grams when your brain

sees the testosterone in your blood even just a little it slows down even stops

sending the LH and FSH message to your testis to make the Testosterone you were

making. So lets say your labs for Total T were 350 you add this dose of gel

your brain sees this and you lose the base level you had before the gel.

Now lets say you need more then 5 grams most do so now all your left with is

what the gel is doing so lets say it's doing 200 so you lost 150.

The reason you feel good is your levels go up that 200 the gel is doing in the

first 2 weeks so your levels go up to 550 in theory. The brain sees this and

you fall back.

Why can this happen it might be how your putting on the gel with Androgel you

need to spread it over your upper arms and shoulders and down your back as far

as you can reach this is half of your dose then do the other side. Just spread

it over the area but don't rub it in.

The other thing is it's not getting through your skin good so you need more. If

you have a thyroid problem your skin will become thicker and gels and creams

don't get through the skin and you need to switch to shots.

I tell men when they go on Gels to retest in 2 weeks because you can end up

feeling worse. Most men just need more gel. Dr.'s that tell men to go on 5

grams of gel and come back in 8 to 12 weeks for labs don't know much about the

use of gels. Dr.'s that treat a lot of men for low T on gels see this happen

and test them again in 2 weeks.

When you go to do labs get up and shower that morning go do your labs and then

put in the gel after your blood test so you don’t spike up your labs. If you

can’t do labs in the morning shower put on the gel but don’t get any gel on

the spot they take the blood from. Do your labs about 6 hrs later.

Call your Dr. and tell him this and that your not feeling good you were but fell

back.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: mysticalstardancer <mysticalstardancer@...>

> Subject: Re: new here, need help with lab results & hormone

problems

>

> Date: Tuesday, October 12, 2010, 2:51 PM

> Phil,

>

> Thank you for providing so much info and suggestions.

> Actually, I'm trying to help my son who is so stressed over

> so many health issues for so long, and has seen me end up

> disabled and extremely ill at times because of doctors

> insisting there's nothing wrong, or misdiagnosing me and

> making me worse... and he is afraid that he may end up like

> me. He knows I've learned more than most doctors about

> hormones due to my own lifelong hormone issues, and done

> more for my own health issues than ANY doctor. The ones in

> this area are even worse than most. So now I'm trying to

> learn about male hormones.   

>

> He is so discouraged by years of his health problems

> getting worse, and going to various doctors but none

> understand hormones so they do nothing or else do things

> that make him worse- such as the antidepressant, that caused

> a lot of weight gain and other things (possibly messed up

> his sex hormones???). He needed his thyroid treated, and

> maybe adrenals too- not an antidepressant, which makes

> thyroid even worse.

>

> The doctor that he goes to is the best one for hormones,

> but still didn't know what tests to do. So I sent him with a

> list. Some were ordered but some were not.

>

> We started reading the files and links sections but there's

> so much info there so we weren't sure what to start with.

> I'm reading the info and links that you sent, and learning a

> lot. 

> Interesting that you mention Estradiol... doctor wasn't

> concerned about it but i'm wondering about it since it can

> cause problems with thyroid and other hormones. I also

> thought we should try to lower it first, and see what effect

> that has on the other things.

> In researching my own hormone problems, I had run across

> info on high estrogen in men, and various things to do for

> it. One thing was bioidentical progesterone. That was a

> miracle for me, like the missing piece of the puzzle that

> was needed to help lots of things. It helped regulate my

> thyroid and adrenal issues also. Last year he and I both

> wondered about him trying it, but decided against it since

> we don't know much about it in men and didn't want to make

> things worse. But he got so much worse anyway that maybe we

> should've tried it...

>

> I also thought he should FIRST have more tests done for

> certain things that haven't been tested, to try and

> determine what the problem is instead of just treating the

> symptoms and possibly making the actual cause worse, as was

> done to me. Then do things to lower his estrogen. Then if

> hormones didn't get better on their own, maybe try adding

> some. But his doctor immediately put him on testim, which he

> started on Saturday (I think).

>

> And the doctor also suspects pit problems and referred him

> to an endo- but most people's experience with endos is that

> they know less about hormones than family doctors and what

> little they know is usually wrong. It takes 3-5 months to

> get a new patient appt with this one who is supposed to be

> best of the few here.

>

> His D level was same as mine when I finally found someone

> to test it in Feb. Doc gave him prescription d2, but after a

> month he switched to the non-Rx d3 that works so well for

> me. He is feeling somewhat better, not as exhausted and

> achy. Has started exercising (walking a lot, riding bicycle,

> going to health club at friend's apt as often as possible),

> and in a month has lost 10 lbs. He also started drinking

> water instead of other unhealthy things. He rarely drinks

> alcohol... (has seen too many people with drinking

> problems...)

>

> So, since he's already started the testim, do you have any

> suggestions, do's/dont's, etc???

> Would it be worth my time to try to find out more about

> progesterone and men???

>

> thanks again for the info and suggestions!

>

>

>

> >

> > > From: mysticalstardancer

> <mysticalstardancer@...>

> > > Subject: new here, need help with

> lab results & hormone problems

> > >

> > > Date: Sunday, October 10, 2010, 10:29 PM

> > > New here, need help with these lab

> > > results & hormone problems.

> > > 23 year old male, lots of strange symptoms for

> years.

> > > Family history of complicated hormonal issues

> (mother and

> > > sister each since age 11-12, sometimes serious),

> father

> > > possible hormonal issues too, but he's elsewhere

> w/ no

> > > contact for years.

> > > Can anyone explain what this means? Don't trust

> doctors-

> > > too many bad experiences with some in the past.

> > > Thanks.

> > >

> > > lab tests 7/30/10

> > > Rx antidepressant Celexa 40mg/day

> > > LIPID PANEL:

> > > Cholesterol, Total   195

> > > mg/dL   125-200 

> > > HDL Cholesterol   42

> > > mg/dL   > or = 40   

> > > Triglycerides   181

> > > mg/dL   <150   ***HIGH***

> > > LDL Cholesterol Calc   117

> > > mg/dL   <130

> > > Chol/HDL Ratio   4.6   <

> > > or = 5.0

> > >

> > > BASIC METABOLIC PANEL W/EGFR:

> > > Glucose   81

> > > mg/dL   65-99   Fasting

> > > reference interval

> > > Urea Nitrogen (BUN)   15

> > > mg/dL   7 - 25

> > > Creatinine, Serum   1.00

> > > mg/dL   0.80 †" 1.30

> > > eGFR   >60

> > > mL/min/1.73m2   > or = 60

> > > BUN/Creatinine

> > > Ratio   n/a   6 †"

> > > 22   

> > > BUN/Creatinine Ratiois  not reported when the

> BUN

> > > & creatinine values are within normal

> limits.

> > > Sodium   139

> > > mmol/L   135-146

> > > Potassium   4.4 mmol/L   3.5

> > > †" 5.3

> > > Chloride   104 mmol/L   98

> > > †" 110

> > > Carbon Dioxide   23

> > > mmol/L   21 †" 33

> > > Calcium   9.5 mg/dL   8.6

> †"

> > > 10.2

> > >

> > > VITAMIN D, 25 HYDROXY, LC/MS/MS:

> > > Vitamin D, 25-OH, Total   13

> > > ng/mL   30 †"

> > > 100   ***LOW***

> > > 25-OHD3 indicates both endogenous production and

> > > supplementation. 25-OHD2 is an indicator of

> exogenous

> > > sources, such as diet or supplementation. Therapy

> is based

> > > on measurement of Total 25-OHD, with levels

> <20 ng/mL

> > > indicative of Vitamin D deficiency, while levels

> between 20

> > > ng/mL and 30 ng/mL suggest insufficiency. Optimal

> levels are

> > > > or = 30 ng/mL.

> > > Vitamin D, 25-OH, D3   13

> > > ng/mL   Reference range not established

> > > Vitamin D, 25-OH, D2   <4

> > > ng/mL   Reference range not established

> > >

> > > Magnesium, RBC   4.3

> > > mg/dL   4.0-6.4

> > >

> > > HEPATIC FUNCTION PANEL:

> > > Protein, Total   7.9

> > > g/dL   6.2 †" 8.3

> > > Albumin   4.6 g/dL   3.6

> †"

> > > 5.1

> > > Globulin   3.3 g/dL   2.1

> †"

> > > 3.7

> > > Albumin/Globulin

> > > Ratio   1.4   1.0 †" 2.1

> > > Bilirubin, Total   0.5

> > > mg/dL   0.2 †" 1.2

> > > Bilirubin, Direct   0.1

> > > mg/dL   < or = 0.2

> > > Bilirubin, Indirect   0.4

> > > mg/dL   0.2 †" 1.2

> > > Alkaline Phosphatase, S   86

> > > U/L   40 - 115

> > > AST   24 U/L   10 †" 40

> > > ALT   30 U/L   9 †" 60

> > >

> > > TSH, 3rd Generation   

> > >    2.54   mIU/L   

> > >    0.40 - 4.50

> > > T4, Free   0.9 ng/dL   0.8

> > > †" 1.8

> > > T3, Free   364 pg/dL   230

> > > †" 420

> > >

> > > Calcium, RBC   none detected

> > > mg/dL   8.6 †" 10.2

> > > Reporting Limit 0.10 mg/dL

> > > NMS Labs derived data:

> > > 10th-90th Percentile Data:

> > > Mean: 0.15 mg/dL +/- 0.04 (SD); range, 0.1-2.3

> mg/dL (N =

> > > 351).

> > >

> > > TESTOSTERONE, FREE AND TOTAL, LC/MS/MS:

> > > Testosterone, Total   187

> > > ng/dL   250-1100 ***LOW***

> > > % Free

> > > Testosterone   3.27   1.5-2.2

> > > ***HIGH***

> > > Testosterone, Free   61.1

> > > pg/mL   35.0-155.0

> > >

> > > Pregnenolone   96

> > > ng/dL   13-208

> > >

> > > CBC (includes DIFF/PLT):

> > > White Blood Cell Count   7.6

> > > K/uL   3.8†" 10.8

> > > Red Blood Cell Count   4.97

> > > M/uL   4.20†" 5.80

> > > Hemoglobin    15.5

> > > g/dL   13.2†" 17.1

> > > Hematocrit   46.7

> > > %   38.5†" 50.0

> > > MCV   93.9

> fL   80.0†" 100.0

> > >

> > > MCH   31.2 pg   27.0†" 33.0

>

> > > MCHC   33.3

> > > g/dL   32.0†" 36.0

> > > RDW   13.3 %   11.0†" 15.0

> > > Platelet Count   205

> > > K/uL   140-400

> > > Absolute Neutrophils   4720

> > > cells/uL   1500 †" 7800

> > > Absolute Lymphocytes   2379

> > > cells/uL   850-3900 

> > > Absolute Monocytes   388

> > > cells/uL   200-950

> > > Absolute Eosinophils   91

> > > cells/uL   15-500

> > > Absolute Basophils   23

> > > cells/uL   0-200

> > > Neutrophils   62.1 %

> > > Lymphocytes   31.3 %

> > > Monocytes   5.1 %

> > > Eosinophils   1.2 %

> > > Basophils   0.3 %

> > >

> > > IRON AND TOTAL IRON BINDING CAPACITY:

> > > Iron, Total   114

> > > mcg/dL   45-175

> > > Iron Binding Capacity   267

> > > mcg/dL   250-425

> > > % Saturation   43 %   20-50

> > >

> > > Ferritin   327 ng/mL   20

> †"

> > > 345

> > > Vitamin B12   563

> > > pg/mL   200-1000

> > >

> > > Folate, Serum   7.8 ng/mL

> > > Reference range:   Low:

> > > <3.4   Borderline:

> > > 3.4-5.4   Normal: >5.4

> > >

> > > Insulin   16 uIU/mL   <17

> > > Insulin analogues may demonstrate non-linear

> > > cross-reactivity in this assay. Interpret

> results

> > > accordingly.

> > >

> > > Estradiol   41 pg/mL   13-54

> > >

> > > Cortisol, A.M.   18.0 mcg/dL   

> > >    

> > > Reference range:   8 a.m. (7-9 a.m.)

> > > Specimen: 4.0-22.0

> > >

> > >

>

……………………………ââ\

‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦

> > >

> > > lab tests 8/13/10

> > > TESTOSTERONE, FREE AND TOTAL, LC/MS/MS:

> > > Testosterone, Total   191

> > > ng/dL   250-1100 ***LOW***

> > > RESULTS CONFIRMED BY REPEAT ANALYSIS.   

> > > % Free Testosterone   4.49

> > > %   1.5-2.2 ***HIGH***

> > > RESULTS CONFIRMED BY REPEAT ANALYSIS

> > > Testosterone, Free   85.7

> > > pg/mL   35.0-155.0

> > > FSH   2.2 mIU/mL   1.6-8.0

> > > LH   1.9 mIU/mL   1.5-9.3

> > >

>

……………………………ââ\

‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦..

> > >

> > > Osteoporosis Assessment 8/31/10   

> > > 23 y/o male   Ht 72 " Wt

> > > 275   *low testosterone

> > >

> > > COMBINED SCAN-FEMUR AND SPINE (COMBSCAN)

> > > BONE MINREAL ASSESSMENT

> > >

> > > SPINE:   (AP)

> > > T Score- Young Normal Standard*

> > > -1.3   Osteopenia (1-2.5 S.D. below

> mean)

> > > Z Score

> > > -1.3   Age matched control

> > >

> > > VERTEBRAL ASSESSMENT:

> > > Evidence of degenerative changes?   YES

> > > Evidence of vertebral fracture?   NO

> > >

> > > HIP:   (Femoral neck)

> > > T Score- Young Normal Standard*

> > > +0.2   Within normal limits

> > > Z Score

> > > +0.2   Age matched control

> > >

> > > *There is an approximate two fold increase in

> fracture risk

> > > for each S.D. below mean (T score value).

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

That's what I am thinking too about his E2 and T levels. And also that the

Testim might make E2 go higher. My hormone problems are very complex and don't

necessarily follow the usual patterns converting from one thing to another, so

I'm thinking his likely will be like that also.

I wanted him to wait till we figure out where the problem is before starting the

Testim and complicating things even more, but as he said " I'm tired of always

waiting- time has run out... " referring to doctors always having excuses for not

doing anything...

and now after an especially busy and stressful month at work, frequently working

nights, and other hassles and stresses, he got so run down that he could barely

function, and dr has him on extended medical leave for a month so far, wanting

him to get his sleep patterns back regulated (which for someone his age, was

never good anyway- he likes working nights), try to stay calm and avoid stress,

and take care of himself before he gets any worse. But that makes difficult

financial situation worse, which adds more stress...

Can anyone suggest how long to try the Testim before deciding if it is helping

or making things worse? And what he should watch out for (good/bad effects)?

Thanks.

> >

> > Estradiol 41 pg/mL 13-54

> > This is within the normal range, but considering his other hormone problems

and especially his symptoms, I'm thinking maybe it would be better if it was

lower.

> > I'm reading some links that someone else sent, and one of them has a section

about inflammation in men with high estradiol and low testosterone.

> > Yes, most his age drink a lot... and if he wasn't always feeling so bad and

so exhausted after work, I'm thinking he might go out sometimes. But he's

usually too tired to do most of what he wants to do.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Estradiol at that levels 41 gives me some bad ED problems and Panic Attacks I go

around the house not knowing what to do with my self. Best to get this down to

about 20 pg/ml.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: mysticalstardancer <mysticalstardancer@...>

> Subject: Re: new here, need help with lab results & hormone

problems

>

> Date: Tuesday, October 12, 2010, 4:30 PM

> Estradiol 41 pg/mL 13-54

> This is within the normal range, but considering his other

> hormone problems and especially his symptoms, I'm thinking

> maybe it would be better if it was lower.

> I'm reading some links that someone else sent, and one of

> them has a section about inflammation in men with high

> estradiol and low testosterone.

> Yes, most his age drink a lot... and if he wasn't always

> feeling so bad and so exhausted after work, I'm thinking he

> might go out sometimes. But he's usually too tired to do

> most of what he wants to do.

>

>

> > >

> > > marc,

> > > Thanks for the info. I am his mother with my own

> hormone issues and now trying to learn about male hormones

> also, becausehe is so stressed about all this and how

> complicated it is.

> > >

> > > He rarely drinks- seen too many with drinking

> problems ruining their lives and affecting their jobs- but

> yes the liver has a big effect on hormone metabolism. 

>

> > >

> > > Inflammation can cause ferritin results to go up.

> I think we both have lots of inflammation- but I can't

> figure out why. In women, progesterone is supposed to have a

> good effect on inflammation and too much estradiol a bad

> effect on lots of things. So could too much estradiol and

> not enough progesterone be affecting his liver and possibly

> causing the inflammation? Doc isn't concerned about

> estradiol- but I am. And would liver function test optimal

> results be the same for women as for men? Now you have me

> wondering about mine...

> > >

> > > His doc started him on testim- but I think more

> tests should've been done first, to determine where the

> problem is, instead of just treating one of the symptoms.

> I'm afraid this may complicate it even more now.

> > >

> > > Thanks for your help!

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

He has always had problems with sweating easily, feeling hot, skin gets red

(especially faceand ears), anxiety- his father had these same problems very bad.

I had them too till I got adrenals/progesterone/thyroid better balanced. That's

why I'm thinking it could be something like estrogen dominance in women- which

really screwed up my already bad hormones. Could that be messing up his T? I

know estrogen dominance/low progesterone can mess up thyroid/adrenals.

I was already wondering about DIM, but don't know much about it... will check

into that.

So was this the wrong E2 test? (probably- as usual...)

Estradiol 41 pg/mL 13-54

I think it was done by Quest.

You said use the sensitive one. Link for Estradiol test???

Yes, your explanation for starting T gel is the same as starting thyroid, that

doctors don't understand so can't properly treat thyroid, or at least here...

hanjs for your help figuring this out!

> > >

> > > > From: mysticalstardancer

> > <mysticalstardancer@>

> > > > Subject: new here, need help with

> > lab results & hormone problems

> > > >

> > > > Date: Sunday, October 10, 2010, 10:29 PM

> > > > New here, need help with these lab

> > > > results & hormone problems.

> > > > 23 year old male, lots of strange symptoms for

> > years.

> > > > Family history of complicated hormonal issues

> > (mother and

> > > > sister each since age 11-12, sometimes serious),

> > father

> > > > possible hormonal issues too, but he's elsewhere

> > w/ no

> > > > contact for years.

> > > > Can anyone explain what this means? Don't trust

> > doctors-

> > > > too many bad experiences with some in the past.

> > > > Thanks.

> > > >

> > > > lab tests 7/30/10

> > > > Rx antidepressant Celexa 40mg/day

> > > > LIPID PANEL:

> > > > Cholesterol, Total   195

> > > > mg/dL   125-200 

> > > > HDL Cholesterol   42

> > > > mg/dL   > or = 40   

> > > > Triglycerides   181

> > > > mg/dL   <150   ***HIGH***

> > > > LDL Cholesterol Calc   117

> > > > mg/dL   <130

> > > > Chol/HDL Ratio   4.6   <

> > > > or = 5.0

> > > >

> > > > BASIC METABOLIC PANEL W/EGFR:

> > > > Glucose   81

> > > > mg/dL   65-99   Fasting

> > > > reference interval

> > > > Urea Nitrogen (BUN)   15

> > > > mg/dL   7 - 25

> > > > Creatinine, Serum   1.00

> > > > mg/dL   0.80 †" 1.30

> > > > eGFR   >60

> > > > mL/min/1.73m2   > or = 60

> > > > BUN/Creatinine

> > > > Ratio   n/a   6 †"

> > > > 22   

> > > > BUN/Creatinine Ratiois  not reported when the

> > BUN

> > > > & creatinine values are within normal

> > limits.

> > > > Sodium   139

> > > > mmol/L   135-146

> > > > Potassium   4.4 mmol/L   3.5

> > > > †" 5.3

> > > > Chloride   104 mmol/L   98

> > > > †" 110

> > > > Carbon Dioxide   23

> > > > mmol/L   21 †" 33

> > > > Calcium   9.5 mg/dL   8.6

> > †"

> > > > 10.2

> > > >

> > > > VITAMIN D, 25 HYDROXY, LC/MS/MS:

> > > > Vitamin D, 25-OH, Total   13

> > > > ng/mL   30 †"

> > > > 100   ***LOW***

> > > > 25-OHD3 indicates both endogenous production and

> > > > supplementation. 25-OHD2 is an indicator of

> > exogenous

> > > > sources, such as diet or supplementation. Therapy

> > is based

> > > > on measurement of Total 25-OHD, with levels

> > <20 ng/mL

> > > > indicative of Vitamin D deficiency, while levels

> > between 20

> > > > ng/mL and 30 ng/mL suggest insufficiency. Optimal

> > levels are

> > > > > or = 30 ng/mL.

> > > > Vitamin D, 25-OH, D3   13

> > > > ng/mL   Reference range not established

> > > > Vitamin D, 25-OH, D2   <4

> > > > ng/mL   Reference range not established

> > > >

> > > > Magnesium, RBC   4.3

> > > > mg/dL   4.0-6.4

> > > >

> > > > HEPATIC FUNCTION PANEL:

> > > > Protein, Total   7.9

> > > > g/dL   6.2 †" 8.3

> > > > Albumin   4.6 g/dL   3.6

> > †"

> > > > 5.1

> > > > Globulin   3.3 g/dL   2.1

> > †"

> > > > 3.7

> > > > Albumin/Globulin

> > > > Ratio   1.4   1.0 †" 2.1

> > > > Bilirubin, Total   0.5

> > > > mg/dL   0.2 †" 1.2

> > > > Bilirubin, Direct   0.1

> > > > mg/dL   < or = 0.2

> > > > Bilirubin, Indirect   0.4

> > > > mg/dL   0.2 †" 1.2

> > > > Alkaline Phosphatase, S   86

> > > > U/L   40 - 115

> > > > AST   24 U/L   10 †" 40

> > > > ALT   30 U/L   9 †" 60

> > > >

> > > > TSH, 3rd Generation   

> > > >    2.54   mIU/L   

> > > >    0.40 - 4.50

> > > > T4, Free   0.9 ng/dL   0.8

> > > > †" 1.8

> > > > T3, Free   364 pg/dL   230

> > > > †" 420

> > > >

> > > > Calcium, RBC   none detected

> > > > mg/dL   8.6 †" 10.2

> > > > Reporting Limit 0.10 mg/dL

> > > > NMS Labs derived data:

> > > > 10th-90th Percentile Data:

> > > > Mean: 0.15 mg/dL +/- 0.04 (SD); range, 0.1-2.3

> > mg/dL (N =

> > > > 351).

> > > >

> > > > TESTOSTERONE, FREE AND TOTAL, LC/MS/MS:

> > > > Testosterone, Total   187

> > > > ng/dL   250-1100 ***LOW***

> > > > % Free

> > > > Testosterone   3.27   1.5-2.2

> > > > ***HIGH***

> > > > Testosterone, Free   61.1

> > > > pg/mL   35.0-155.0

> > > >

> > > > Pregnenolone   96

> > > > ng/dL   13-208

> > > >

> > > > CBC (includes DIFF/PLT):

> > > > White Blood Cell Count   7.6

> > > > K/uL   3.8†" 10.8

> > > > Red Blood Cell Count   4.97

> > > > M/uL   4.20†" 5.80

> > > > Hemoglobin    15.5

> > > > g/dL   13.2†" 17.1

> > > > Hematocrit   46.7

> > > > %   38.5†" 50.0

> > > > MCV   93.9

> > fL   80.0†" 100.0

> > > >

> > > > MCH   31.2 pg   27.0†" 33.0

> >

> > > > MCHC   33.3

> > > > g/dL   32.0†" 36.0

> > > > RDW   13.3 %   11.0†" 15.0

> > > > Platelet Count   205

> > > > K/uL   140-400

> > > > Absolute Neutrophils   4720

> > > > cells/uL   1500 †" 7800

> > > > Absolute Lymphocytes   2379

> > > > cells/uL   850-3900 

> > > > Absolute Monocytes   388

> > > > cells/uL   200-950

> > > > Absolute Eosinophils   91

> > > > cells/uL   15-500

> > > > Absolute Basophils   23

> > > > cells/uL   0-200

> > > > Neutrophils   62.1 %

> > > > Lymphocytes   31.3 %

> > > > Monocytes   5.1 %

> > > > Eosinophils   1.2 %

> > > > Basophils   0.3 %

> > > >

> > > > IRON AND TOTAL IRON BINDING CAPACITY:

> > > > Iron, Total   114

> > > > mcg/dL   45-175

> > > > Iron Binding Capacity   267

> > > > mcg/dL   250-425

> > > > % Saturation   43 %   20-50

> > > >

> > > > Ferritin   327 ng/mL   20

> > †"

> > > > 345

> > > > Vitamin B12   563

> > > > pg/mL   200-1000

> > > >

> > > > Folate, Serum   7.8 ng/mL

> > > > Reference range:   Low:

> > > > <3.4   Borderline:

> > > > 3.4-5.4   Normal: >5.4

> > > >

> > > > Insulin   16 uIU/mL   <17

> > > > Insulin analogues may demonstrate non-linear

> > > > cross-reactivity in this assay. Interpret

> > results

> > > > accordingly.

> > > >

> > > > Estradiol   41 pg/mL   13-54

> > > >

> > > > Cortisol, A.M.   18.0 mcg/dL   

> > > >    

> > > > Reference range:   8 a.m. (7-9 a.m.)

> > > > Specimen: 4.0-22.0

> > > >

> > > >

> >

……………………………ââ\

‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦

> > > >

> > > > lab tests 8/13/10

> > > > TESTOSTERONE, FREE AND TOTAL, LC/MS/MS:

> > > > Testosterone, Total   191

> > > > ng/dL   250-1100 ***LOW***

> > > > RESULTS CONFIRMED BY REPEAT ANALYSIS.   

> > > > % Free Testosterone   4.49

> > > > %   1.5-2.2 ***HIGH***

> > > > RESULTS CONFIRMED BY REPEAT ANALYSIS

> > > > Testosterone, Free   85.7

> > > > pg/mL   35.0-155.0

> > > > FSH   2.2 mIU/mL   1.6-8.0

> > > > LH   1.9 mIU/mL   1.5-9.3

> > > >

> >

……………………………ââ\

‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦..

> > > >

> > > > Osteoporosis Assessment 8/31/10   

> > > > 23 y/o male   Ht 72 " Wt

> > > > 275   *low testosterone

> > > >

> > > > COMBINED SCAN-FEMUR AND SPINE (COMBSCAN)

> > > > BONE MINREAL ASSESSMENT

> > > >

> > > > SPINE:   (AP)

> > > > T Score- Young Normal Standard*

> > > > -1.3   Osteopenia (1-2.5 S.D. below

> > mean)

> > > > Z Score

> > > > -1.3   Age matched control

> > > >

> > > > VERTEBRAL ASSESSMENT:

> > > > Evidence of degenerative changes?   YES

> > > > Evidence of vertebral fracture?   NO

> > > >

> > > > HIP:   (Femoral neck)

> > > > T Score- Young Normal Standard*

> > > > +0.2   Within normal limits

> > > > Z Score

> > > > +0.2   Age matched control

> > > >

> > > > *There is an approximate two fold increase in

> > fracture risk

> > > > for each S.D. below mean (T score value).

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

" I go around the house not knowing what to do with my self. "

Yes that definitely describes him.

We will try the DIM that you mentioned in your other post.

> > > >

> > > > marc,

> > > > Thanks for the info. I am his mother with my own

> > hormone issues and now trying to learn about male hormones

> > also, becausehe is so stressed about all this and how

> > complicated it is.

> > > >

> > > > He rarely drinks- seen too many with drinking

> > problems ruining their lives and affecting their jobs- but

> > yes the liver has a big effect on hormone metabolism. 

> >

> > > >

> > > > Inflammation can cause ferritin results to go up.

> > I think we both have lots of inflammation- but I can't

> > figure out why. In women, progesterone is supposed to have a

> > good effect on inflammation and too much estradiol a bad

> > effect on lots of things. So could too much estradiol and

> > not enough progesterone be affecting his liver and possibly

> > causing the inflammation? Doc isn't concerned about

> > estradiol- but I am. And would liver function test optimal

> > results be the same for women as for men? Now you have me

> > wondering about mine...

> > > >

> > > > His doc started him on testim- but I think more

> > tests should've been done first, to determine where the

> > problem is, instead of just treating one of the symptoms.

> > I'm afraid this may complicate it even more now.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks for your help!

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

You just keep asking questions and we will help you as much as you need. Get

his estradiol levels down it can add up to 300 points on his Total T levels read

this.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174

It's about older men but I see this in younger men just by what your posting he

has high levels and that is the right test my labs today are at 14 for Estradiol

on that test but my SHBG levels are 19 lower so I need my Estraidol down to

between 15 to 20 to feel better most or some men do good betweeb 20 to 30.

http://www.medibolics.com/ArimidexBoostsTestosterone.htm

DIM will act like Arimidex lowering Estraidol but it works slower.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: mysticalstardancer <mysticalstardancer@...>

> Subject: Re: new here, need help with lab results & hormone

problems

>

> Date: Tuesday, October 12, 2010, 5:28 PM

> He has always had problems with

> sweating easily, feeling hot, skin gets red (especially

> faceand ears), anxiety- his father had these same problems

> very bad. I had them too till I got

> adrenals/progesterone/thyroid better balanced. That's why

> I'm thinking it could be something like estrogen dominance

> in women- which really screwed up my already bad hormones.

> Could that be messing up his T? I know estrogen

> dominance/low progesterone can mess up thyroid/adrenals.

>

> I was already wondering about DIM, but don't know much

> about it... will check into that.

>

> So was this the wrong E2 test? (probably- as usual...)

> Estradiol 41 pg/mL 13-54

> I think it was done by Quest.

> You said use the sensitive one. Link for Estradiol test???

>

> Yes, your explanation for starting T gel is the same as

> starting thyroid, that doctors don't understand so can't

> properly treat thyroid, or at least here...

>

> hanjs for your help figuring this out!

>

>

> > > >

> > > > > From: mysticalstardancer

> > > <mysticalstardancer@>

> > > > > Subject: new here, need

> help with

> > > lab results & hormone problems

> > > > >

> > > > > Date: Sunday, October 10, 2010, 10:29

> PM

> > > > > New here, need help with these lab

> > > > > results & hormone problems.

> > > > > 23 year old male, lots of strange

> symptoms for

> > > years.

> > > > > Family history of complicated hormonal

> issues

> > > (mother and

> > > > > sister each since age 11-12, sometimes

> serious),

> > > father

> > > > > possible hormonal issues too, but he's

> elsewhere

> > > w/ no

> > > > > contact for years.

> > > > > Can anyone explain what this means?

> Don't trust

> > > doctors-

> > > > > too many bad experiences with some in

> the past.

> > > > > Thanks.

> > > > >

> > > > > lab tests 7/30/10

> > > > > Rx antidepressant Celexa 40mg/day

> > > > > LIPID PANEL:

> > > > > Cholesterol,

> Total   195

> > > > >

> mg/dL   125-200 

> > > > > HDL

> Cholesterol   42

> > > > > mg/dL   > or

> = 40   

> > > > >

> Triglycerides   181

> > > > >

> mg/dL   <150   ***HIGH***

> > > > > LDL Cholesterol

> Calc   117

> > > > >

> mg/dL   <130

> > > > > Chol/HDL

> Ratio   4.6   <

> > > > > or = 5.0

> > > > >

> > > > > BASIC METABOLIC PANEL W/EGFR:

> > > > > Glucose   81

> > > > >

> mg/dL   65-99   Fasting

> > > > > reference interval

> > > > > Urea Nitrogen

> (BUN)   15

> > > > > mg/dL   7 - 25

> > > > > Creatinine,

> Serum   1.00

> > > > > mg/dL   0.80

> †" 1.30

> > > > > eGFR   >60

> > > > >

> mL/min/1.73m2   > or = 60

> > > > > BUN/Creatinine

> > > > >

> Ratio   n/a   6

> †"

> > > > > 22   

> > > > > BUN/Creatinine Ratiois  not

> reported when the

> > > BUN

> > > > > & creatinine values are within

> normal

> > > limits.

> > > > > Sodium   139

> > > > >

> mmol/L   135-146

> > > > > Potassium   4.4

> mmol/L   3.5

> > > > > †" 5.3

> > > > > Chloride   104

> mmol/L   98

> > > > > †" 110

> > > > > Carbon

> Dioxide   23

> > > > > mmol/L   21

> †" 33

> > > > > Calcium   9.5

> mg/dL   8.6

> > > †"

> > > > > 10.2

> > > > >

> > > > > VITAMIN D, 25 HYDROXY, LC/MS/MS:

> > > > > Vitamin D, 25-OH,

> Total   13

> > > > > ng/mL   30

> †"

> > > > >

> 100   ***LOW***

> > > > > 25-OHD3 indicates both endogenous

> production and

> > > > > supplementation. 25-OHD2 is an

> indicator of

> > > exogenous

> > > > > sources, such as diet or

> supplementation. Therapy

> > > is based

> > > > > on measurement of Total 25-OHD, with

> levels

> > > <20 ng/mL

> > > > > indicative of Vitamin D deficiency,

> while levels

> > > between 20

> > > > > ng/mL and 30 ng/mL suggest

> insufficiency. Optimal

> > > levels are

> > > > > > or = 30 ng/mL.

> > > > > Vitamin D, 25-OH,

> D3   13

> > > > >

> ng/mL   Reference range not

> established

> > > > > Vitamin D, 25-OH,

> D2   <4

> > > > >

> ng/mL   Reference range not

> established

> > > > >

> > > > > Magnesium,

> RBC   4.3

> > > > >

> mg/dL   4.0-6.4

> > > > >

> > > > > HEPATIC FUNCTION PANEL:

> > > > > Protein,

> Total   7.9

> > > > > g/dL   6.2

> †" 8.3

> > > > > Albumin   4.6

> g/dL   3.6

> > > †"

> > > > > 5.1

> > > > > Globulin   3.3

> g/dL   2.1

> > > †"

> > > > > 3.7

> > > > > Albumin/Globulin

> > > > >

> Ratio   1.4   1.0

> †" 2.1

> > > > > Bilirubin,

> Total   0.5

> > > > > mg/dL   0.2

> †" 1.2

> > > > > Bilirubin,

> Direct   0.1

> > > > > mg/dL   < or

> = 0.2

> > > > > Bilirubin,

> Indirect   0.4

> > > > > mg/dL   0.2

> †" 1.2

> > > > > Alkaline Phosphatase,

> S   86

> > > > > U/L   40 - 115

> > > > > AST   24

> U/L   10 †" 40

> > > > > ALT   30

> U/L   9 †" 60

> > > > >

> > > > > TSH, 3rd Generation   

> > > > >

>    2.54   mIU/L 

>  

> > > > >    0.40 - 4.50

> > > > > T4, Free   0.9

> ng/dL   0.8

> > > > > †" 1.8

> > > > > T3, Free   364

> pg/dL   230

> > > > > †" 420

> > > > >

> > > > > Calcium,

> RBC   none detected

> > > > > mg/dL   8.6

> †" 10.2

> > > > > Reporting Limit 0.10 mg/dL

> > > > > NMS Labs derived data:

> > > > > 10th-90th Percentile Data:

> > > > > Mean: 0.15 mg/dL +/- 0.04 (SD); range,

> 0.1-2.3

> > > mg/dL (N =

> > > > > 351).

> > > > >

> > > > > TESTOSTERONE, FREE AND TOTAL,

> LC/MS/MS:

> > > > > Testosterone,

> Total   187

> > > > >

> ng/dL   250-1100 ***LOW***

> > > > > % Free

> > > > >

> Testosterone   3.27   1.5-2.2

> > > > > ***HIGH***

> > > > > Testosterone,

> Free   61.1

> > > > >

> pg/mL   35.0-155.0

> > > > >

> > > > >

> Pregnenolone   96

> > > > > ng/dL   13-208

> > > > >

> > > > > CBC (includes DIFF/PLT):

> > > > > White Blood Cell

> Count   7.6

> > > > >

> K/uL   3.8†" 10.8

> > > > > Red Blood Cell

> Count   4.97

> > > > >

> M/uL   4.20†" 5.80

> > > > > Hemoglobin    15.5

> > > > >

> g/dL   13.2†" 17.1

> > > > >

> Hematocrit   46.7

> > > > >

> %   38.5†" 50.0

> > > > > MCV   93.9

> > >

> fL   80.0†" 100.0

> > > > >

> > > > > MCH   31.2

> pg   27.0†" 33.0

> > >

> > > > > MCHC   33.3

> > > > >

> g/dL   32.0†" 36.0

> > > > > RDW   13.3

> %   11.0†" 15.0

> > > > > Platelet

> Count   205

> > > > > K/uL   140-400

>

> > > > > Absolute

> Neutrophils   4720

> > > > > cells/uL   1500

> †" 7800

> > > > > Absolute

> Lymphocytes   2379

> > > > >

> cells/uL   850-3900 

> > > > > Absolute

> Monocytes   388

> > > > >

> cells/uL   200-950

> > > > > Absolute

> Eosinophils   91

> > > > >

> cells/uL   15-500

> > > > > Absolute

> Basophils   23

> > > > >

> cells/uL   0-200

> > > > >

> Neutrophils   62.1 %

> > > > >

> Lymphocytes   31.3 %

> > > > > Monocytes   5.1

> %

> > > > >

> Eosinophils   1.2 %

> > > > > Basophils   0.3

> %

> > > > >

> > > > > IRON AND TOTAL IRON BINDING CAPACITY:

> > > > > Iron,

> Total   114

> > > > >

> mcg/dL   45-175

> > > > > Iron Binding

> Capacity   267

> > > > >

> mcg/dL   250-425

> > > > > %

> Saturation   43

> %   20-50

> > > > >

> > > > > Ferritin   327

> ng/mL   20

> > > †"

> > > > > 345

> > > > > Vitamin

> B12   563

> > > > >

> pg/mL   200-1000

> > > > >

> > > > > Folate,

> Serum   7.8 ng/mL

> > > > > Reference

> range:   Low:

> > > > >

> <3.4   Borderline:

> > > > >

> 3.4-5.4   Normal: >5.4

> > > > >

> > > > > Insulin   16

> uIU/mL   <17

> > > > > Insulin analogues may demonstrate

> non-linear

> > > > > cross-reactivity in this assay.

> Interpret

> > > results

> > > > > accordingly.

> > > > >

> > > > > Estradiol   41

> pg/mL   13-54

> > > > >

> > > > > Cortisol,

> A.M.   18.0 mcg/dL 

>  

> > > > >    

> > > > > Reference

> range:   8 a.m. (7-9 a.m.)

> > > > > Specimen: 4.0-22.0

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > >

>

……………âÃ\

¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚Â\

¬Ã‚¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦\

……

> > > > >

> > > > > lab tests 8/13/10

> > > > > TESTOSTERONE, FREE AND TOTAL,

> LC/MS/MS:

> > > > > Testosterone,

> Total   191

> > > > >

> ng/dL   250-1100 ***LOW***

> > > > > RESULTS CONFIRMED BY REPEAT

> ANALYSIS.   

> > > > > % Free

> Testosterone   4.49

> > > > > %   1.5-2.2

> ***HIGH***

> > > > > RESULTS CONFIRMED BY REPEAT ANALYSIS

> > > > > Testosterone,

> Free   85.7

> > > > >

> pg/mL   35.0-155.0

> > > > > FSH   2.2

> mIU/mL   1.6-8.0

> > > > > LH   1.9

> mIU/mL   1.5-9.3

> > > > >

> > >

>

……………âÃ\

¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚Â\

¬Ã‚¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦\

…..

> > > > >

> > > > > Osteoporosis Assessment

> 8/31/10   

> > > > > 23 y/o

> male   Ht 72 " Wt

> > > > > 275   *low

> testosterone

> > > > >

> > > > > COMBINED SCAN-FEMUR AND SPINE

> (COMBSCAN)

> > > > > BONE MINREAL ASSESSMENT

> > > > >

> > > > > SPINE:   (AP)

> > > > > T Score- Young Normal Standard*

> > > > >

> -1.3   Osteopenia (1-2.5 S.D. below

> > > mean)

> > > > > Z Score

> > > > > -1.3   Age

> matched control

> > > > >

> > > > > VERTEBRAL ASSESSMENT:

> > > > > Evidence of degenerative

> changes?   YES

> > > > > Evidence of vertebral

> fracture?   NO

> > > > >

> > > > > HIP:   (Femoral

> neck)

> > > > > T Score- Young Normal Standard*

> > > > > +0.2   Within

> normal limits

> > > > > Z Score

> > > > > +0.2   Age

> matched control

> > > > >

> > > > > *There is an approximate two fold

> increase in

> > > fracture risk

> > > > > for each S.D. below mean (T score

> value).

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > >

> > > > >