Re: Hypogonadism for Dummies!!

[Guest guest]

Here is what one needs to do when they are low on Testosterone stay away from

Endo's and Uro's they are not Good Dr.'s for this problem. And the following is

not true. (Side-effects of TRT, or its related therapies can include liver

damage, gynecomastia (or even breast cancer), ankle swelling, prostatitis (or

BHP or cancer), nausea, vomiting, low HDL, etc.) But one needs to be tested for

them going on TRT with cancer some kinds is not good. But TRT will not cause

these problems.

The effects of low T on a man is worse then any sides could ever be hell your

Heart is a muscle and needs T to stay healthy.

Best to keep learning and reading everyone is different and needs to address

this with a good Dr. like Dr. and he is a DO Dr.

Still for the avg. man with low T all he needs to do is go on TRT get his levels

up into the upper 1/3 of his labs range and keep his Estradiol down to about 20

pg/ml. Most men do great following this.

The following link is a copy of a old link from LEF. and I feel the best read

about this there is.

http://www.griffinmedical.com/male_hormone_modulation_therapy.html

In this link it's full of good links and has the most in it I ever seen. Bottom

line here is men that are low on T and don't treat it don't live as long as men

that do or feel as good.

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=450553

So if your low go on TRT get your levels up into the upper 1/3 of your labs

range keeping your E2 levels down to about 20 pg/ml and add in HCG to keep your

LH cells working.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: L <lindav1950@...>

> Subject: Hypogonadism for Dummies!!

>

> Date: Tuesday, March 30, 2010, 11:22 AM

> ...We've enjoyed reading hundreds

> (probably thousands) of posts since joining this board

> several months ago, but so many of them have been at the

> 'detail' level that we want to be sure of our understanding

> of the basics. 

> ...I have been diagnosed with very low T (~100), but still

> feel great with no sexual dysfunction yet - at age 59. I am

> already being treated for several other chronic conditions

> (heart, vascular, blood - MGUS, thyroid, etc.), which makes

> my primary physician fearful of drug interactions and

> side-effects, so I won't begin TRT until later this year. My

> Estradiol level is 'okay' per the Doc.

> ...He will likely refer me to an Endo or Uro, but as we

> read the warnings from this group, there doesn't seem to be

> any classification of practicing physicians or specialists

> that ARE recommended. D.O.s are scarce in NY, so that really

> isn't a choice. E.g., is Dr an MD, or more like a

> homeopathic, holistic practitioner??  Who the heck do

> we even call to ask the 'questions' of (none in the database

> are nearby)?? Most Family or General Practitioners or even

> Internists recognize the complexity and don't want the

> responsibility - they'll almost always refer us to a

> specialist who works with dozens of men continuously.

> ............................................................ 

>

> ...Please let us know if the statements below are not on

> track:

> ... For low T, most men of age 60+ that seek treatment are

> given Testosterone in one of many forms - gel, pellets,

> patches, injections, buccal, or oral. (Occasionally,

> supplements of Zinc, HCG or Indolplex/DIM may suffice). The

> concensus among this board's members is that a weekly shot

> of T-cypionate is most effective - no matter what the Doc is

> pushing.

> ... If Estradiol is high or goes high after beginning TRT,

> Arimidex is most effective for reducing it. Since its

> availability is iffy in the US (or insurance may squawk),

> Indolplex/DIM may serve as a substitute.

> ... If Estradiol goes low, stop the Arim temporarily until

> the 'wood-gage' returns to normal. In extreme cases, DHEA

> may help.

> ... If LH and/or FSH are low (indicating secondary hypo-g),

> testicular shrinkage can be negated by introducing HCG.

> ... Side-effects of TRT, or its related therapies can

> include liver damage, gynecomastia (or even breast cancer),

> ankle swelling, prostatitis (or BHP or cancer), nausea,

> vomiting, low HDL, etc.

> ..Overly-simplified, and intentionally ignoring your

> discussions of DHT, SHBG, Cortisol, GH, which we don't

> understand yet at all, these talking points seem to be 'the

> basics'.   

> ..When we read what some of you are going through - trying

> to stay within range in every way, it sometimes isn't clear

> that beginning TRT is even 'worth it' - especially since we

> still have something to lose.

> .................. & V.....................

>

>  

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

The effect of testosterone on HDL is an issue near and dear to my heart, since I

have such a strong family history of heart disease and stroke.  Testosterone

replacement can initially reduce HDL by about 20%.  However, levels can rise

back up to pre-TRT levels.

Low testosterone is associated with increased risk of coronary artery

disease as well as visceral obesity, insulin resistance, low high-density

lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol, elevated triglycerides, low-density lipoprotein

(LDL) cholesterol and elevated blood sugar, so the relationship of testosterone

to HDL is not clear or simple.

After starting TRT, I did add muscle mass and lost some fat, both of which will

raise HDL.  I've found that my diet is the strongest factor in my HDL levels. 

Changing the way I ate increased my HDL by over 60%.

Supraphysiological (e.g. higher than normal) doses of testosterone can

definitely drop HDL.  When my GP gave me a prescription for testosterone

cypionate, she specified 200mg every other week.  I asked her to write it for

100mg every week and she declined.  The prescribing information for

testosterone cypoinate still recommends 200mg every other week and she wasn't

willing to write a prescription outside of those guidelines.  She knows that my

opinion of endocrinologists is pretty low , so she recommended me to a urologist

who will hopefully know of an endo with knowledge of TRT.  If that doesn't pan

out, I'll stick to my Androgel, DIM, self-testing, and ADC. 

At my last exam I also asked her for a sensitive estradiol test and she

declined.  I went ahead and paid out-of-pocket $58 for a sensitive estradiol

test.  I admitted to her that I had paid for several tests myself in my attempt

to raise my HDL.  She knows that I take my health very seriously and will do

whatever I need to in order to improve it.

________________________________

From: philip georgian <pmgamer18@...>

Sent: Tue, March 30, 2010 12:19:24 PM

Subject: Re: Hypogonadism for Dummies!!

 

Here is what one needs to do when they are low on Testosterone stay away from

Endo's and Uro's they are not Good Dr.'s for this problem. And the following is

not true. (Side-effects of TRT, or its related therapies can include liver

damage, gynecomastia (or even breast cancer), ankle swelling, prostatitis (or

BHP or cancer), nausea, vomiting, low HDL, etc.) But one needs to be tested for

them going on TRT with cancer some kinds is not good. But TRT will not cause

these problems.

The effects of low T on a man is worse then any sides could ever be hell your

Heart is a muscle and needs T to stay healthy.

Best to keep learning and reading everyone is different and needs to address

this with a good Dr. like Dr. and he is a DO Dr.

Still for the avg. man with low T all he needs to do is go on TRT get his levels

up into the upper 1/3 of his labs range and keep his Estradiol down to about 20

pg/ml. Most men do great following this.

The following link is a copy of a old link from LEF. and I feel the best read

about this there is.

http://www.griffinmedical.com/male_hormone_modulation_therapy.html

In this link it's full of good links and has the most in it I ever seen. Bottom

line here is men that are low on T and don't treat it don't live as long as men

that do or feel as good.

http://answers. google.com/ answers/threadvi ew?id=450553

So if your low go on TRT get your levels up into the upper 1/3 of your labs

range keeping your E2 levels down to about 20 pg/ml and add in HCG to keep your

LH cells working.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: L <lindav1950 (DOT) com>

> Subject: Hypogonadism for Dummies!!

>

> Date: Tuesday, March 30, 2010, 11:22 AM

> ...We've enjoyed reading hundreds

> (probably thousands) of posts since joining this board

> several months ago, but so many of them have been at the

> 'detail' level that we want to be sure of our understanding

> of the basics. 

> ...I have been diagnosed with very low T (~100), but still

> feel great with no sexual dysfunction yet - at age 59. I am

> already being treated for several other chronic conditions

> (heart, vascular, blood - MGUS, thyroid, etc.), which makes

> my primary physician fearful of drug interactions and

> side-effects, so I won't begin TRT until later this year. My

> Estradiol level is 'okay' per the Doc.

> ...He will likely refer me to an Endo or Uro, but as we

> read the warnings from this group, there doesn't seem to be

> any classification of practicing physicians or specialists

> that ARE recommended. D.O.s are scarce in NY, so that really

> isn't a choice. E.g., is Dr an MD, or more like a

> homeopathic, holistic practitioner? ?  Who the heck do

> we even call to ask the 'questions' of (none in the database

> are nearby)?? Most Family or General Practitioners or even

> Internists recognize the complexity and don't want the

> responsibility - they'll almost always refer us to a

> specialist who works with dozens of men continuously.

> ............ ......... ......... ......... ......... ......... ... 

>

> ...Please let us know if the statements below are not on

> track:

> ... For low T, most men of age 60+ that seek treatment are

> given Testosterone in one of many forms - gel, pellets,

> patches, injections, buccal, or oral. (Occasionally,

> supplements of Zinc, HCG or Indolplex/DIM may suffice). The

> concensus among this board's members is that a weekly shot

> of T-cypionate is most effective - no matter what the Doc is

> pushing.

> ... If Estradiol is high or goes high after beginning TRT,

> Arimidex is most effective for reducing it. Since its

> availability is iffy in the US (or insurance may squawk),

> Indolplex/DIM may serve as a substitute.

> ... If Estradiol goes low, stop the Arim temporarily until

> the 'wood-gage' returns to normal. In extreme cases, DHEA

> may help.

> ... If LH and/or FSH are low (indicating secondary hypo-g),

> testicular shrinkage can be negated by introducing HCG.

> ... Side-effects of TRT, or its related therapies can

> include liver damage, gynecomastia (or even breast cancer),

> ankle swelling, prostatitis (or BHP or cancer), nausea,

> vomiting, low HDL, etc.

> ..Overly-simplified , and intentionally ignoring your

> discussions of DHT, SHBG, Cortisol, GH, which we don't

> understand yet at all, these talking points seem to be 'the

> basics'.   

> ..When we read what some of you are going through - trying

> to stay within range in every way, it sometimes isn't clear

> that beginning TRT is even 'worth it' - especially since we

> still have something to lose.

> ............ ...... & V........... ......... .

>

>  

>

>

>

> ------------ --------- --------- ------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Many thanks for your responses - summarizing the important stuff, and sharing

your opinions, Ed and Phil!! My HDL has been low for decades - long before my

hypogonadism was detected. Neither Lipitor, Tricor, nor Crestor (all of which

have helped dramatically with cholestorol and triglycerides) have made much

difference with HDL. So I'll work harder on the belly fat and the diet, which

may help a little, as I begin TRT.

....Gynecomastia had already begun recently, which is how my PCP discovered the

low T in the first place. But if TRT doesn't exacerbate it, or increase the

likelihood of breast cancer, we'll try to get the T up, while keeping the E2

down, and save the complications, if any, for later.

.............. & V..............

> > From: L <lindav1950 (DOT) com>

> > Subject: Hypogonadism for Dummies!!

> >

> > Date: Tuesday, March 30, 2010, 11:22 AM

> > ...We've enjoyed reading hundreds

> > (probably thousands) of posts since joining this board

> > several months ago, but so many of them have been at the

> > 'detail' level that we want to be sure of our understanding

> > of the basics. 

> > ...I have been diagnosed with very low T (~100), but still

> > feel great with no sexual dysfunction yet - at age 59. I am

> > already being treated for several other chronic conditions

> > (heart, vascular, blood - MGUS, thyroid, etc.), which makes

> > my primary physician fearful of drug interactions and

> > side-effects, so I won't begin TRT until later this year. My

> > Estradiol level is 'okay' per the Doc.

> > ...He will likely refer me to an Endo or Uro, but as we

> > read the warnings from this group, there doesn't seem to be

> > any classification of practicing physicians or specialists

> > that ARE recommended. D.O.s are scarce in NY, so that really

> > isn't a choice. E.g., is Dr an MD, or more like a

> > homeopathic, holistic practitioner? ?  Who the heck do

> > we even call to ask the 'questions' of (none in the database

> > are nearby)?? Most Family or General Practitioners or even

> > Internists recognize the complexity and don't want the

> > responsibility - they'll almost always refer us to a

> > specialist who works with dozens of men continuously.

> > ............ ......... ......... ......... ......... ....

> > ...Please let us know if the statements below are not on

> > track:

> > ... For low T, most men of age 60+ that seek treatment are

> > given Testosterone in one of many forms - gel, pellets,

> > patches, injections, buccal, or oral. (Occasionally,

> > supplements of Zinc, HCG or Indolplex/DIM may suffice). The

> > concensus among this board's members is that a weekly shot

> > of T-cypionate is most effective - no matter what the Doc is

> > pushing.

> > ... If Estradiol is high or goes high after beginning TRT,

> > Arimidex is most effective for reducing it. Since its

> > availability is iffy in the US (or insurance may squawk),

> > Indolplex/DIM may serve as a substitute.

> > ... If Estradiol goes low, stop the Arim temporarily until

> > the 'wood-gage' returns to normal. In extreme cases, DHEA

> > may help.

> > ... If LH and/or FSH are low (indicating secondary hypo-g),

> > testicular shrinkage can be negated by introducing HCG.

> > ... Side-effects of TRT, or its related therapies can

> > include liver damage, gynecomastia (or even breast cancer),

> > ankle swelling, prostatitis (or BHP or cancer), nausea,

> > vomiting, low HDL, etc.

> > ..Overly-simplified , and intentionally ignoring your

> > discussions of DHT, SHBG, Cortisol, GH, which we don't

> > understand yet at all, these talking points seem to be 'the

> > basics'.   

> > ..When we read what some of you are going through - trying

> > to stay within range in every way, it sometimes isn't clear

> > that beginning TRT is even 'worth it' - especially since we

> > still have something to lose.

> > ............ ...... & V........... ......... .

[Guest guest]

Why do we put up with this crap from Doctors. They work for you not the

other way around. Would you put up with any other employee that didn't

follow your orders? Fire them tell them why and hire some doctor who cares

about YOUR HEALTH!

Brett

Hypogonadism for Dummies!!

>

> Date: Tuesday, March 30, 2010, 11:22 AM

> ...We've enjoyed reading hundreds

> (probably thousands) of posts since joining this board

> several months ago, but so many of them have been at the

> 'detail' level that we want to be sure of our understanding

> of the basics.

> ...I have been diagnosed with very low T (~100), but still

> feel great with no sexual dysfunction yet - at age 59. I am

> already being treated for several other chronic conditions

> (heart, vascular, blood - MGUS, thyroid, etc.), which makes

> my primary physician fearful of drug interactions and

> side-effects, so I won't begin TRT until later this year. My

> Estradiol level is 'okay' per the Doc.

> ...He will likely refer me to an Endo or Uro, but as we

> read the warnings from this group, there doesn't seem to be

> any classification of practicing physicians or specialists

> that ARE recommended. D.O.s are scarce in NY, so that really

> isn't a choice. E.g., is Dr an MD, or more like a

> homeopathic, holistic practitioner? ? Who the heck do

> we even call to ask the 'questions' of (none in the database

> are nearby)?? Most Family or General Practitioners or even

> Internists recognize the complexity and don't want the

> responsibility - they'll almost always refer us to a

> specialist who works with dozens of men continuously.

> ............ ......... ......... ......... ......... ......... ...

>

> ...Please let us know if the statements below are not on

> track:

> ... For low T, most men of age 60+ that seek treatment are

> given Testosterone in one of many forms - gel, pellets,

> patches, injections, buccal, or oral. (Occasionally,

> supplements of Zinc, HCG or Indolplex/DIM may suffice). The

> concensus among this board's members is that a weekly shot

> of T-cypionate is most effective - no matter what the Doc is

> pushing.

> ... If Estradiol is high or goes high after beginning TRT,

> Arimidex is most effective for reducing it. Since its

> availability is iffy in the US (or insurance may squawk),

> Indolplex/DIM may serve as a substitute.

> ... If Estradiol goes low, stop the Arim temporarily until

> the 'wood-gage' returns to normal. In extreme cases, DHEA

> may help.

> ... If LH and/or FSH are low (indicating secondary hypo-g),

> testicular shrinkage can be negated by introducing HCG.

> ... Side-effects of TRT, or its related therapies can

> include liver damage, gynecomastia (or even breast cancer),

> ankle swelling, prostatitis (or BHP or cancer), nausea,

> vomiting, low HDL, etc.

> ..Overly-simplified , and intentionally ignoring your

> discussions of DHT, SHBG, Cortisol, GH, which we don't

> understand yet at all, these talking points seem to be 'the

> basics'.

> ..When we read what some of you are going through - trying

> to stay within range in every way, it sometimes isn't clear

> that beginning TRT is even 'worth it' - especially since we

> still have something to lose.

> ............ ...... & V........... ......... .

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------ --------- --------- ------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Now your on track.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: L <lindav1950@...>

> Subject: Re: Hypogonadism for Dummies!!

>

> Date: Wednesday, March 31, 2010, 1:24 AM

> Many thanks for your responses -

> summarizing the important stuff, and sharing your opinions,

> Ed and Phil!!  My HDL has been low for decades - long

> before my hypogonadism was detected.  Neither Lipitor,

> Tricor, nor Crestor (all of which have helped dramatically

> with cholestorol and triglycerides) have made much

> difference with HDL.  So I'll work harder on the belly

> fat and the diet, which may help a little, as I begin TRT.

> ...Gynecomastia had already begun recently, which is how my

> PCP discovered the low T in the first place. But if TRT

> doesn't exacerbate it, or increase the likelihood of breast

> cancer, we'll try to get the T up, while keeping the E2

> down, and save the complications, if any, for later. 

> .............. & V.............. 

>

>

> > > From: L <lindav1950 (DOT) com>

> > > Subject: Hypogonadism for

> Dummies!!

> > >

> > > Date: Tuesday, March 30, 2010, 11:22 AM

> > > ...We've enjoyed reading hundreds

> > > (probably thousands) of posts since joining this

> board

> > > several months ago, but so many of them have been

> at the

> > > 'detail' level that we want to be sure of our

> understanding

> > > of the basics. 

> > > ...I have been diagnosed with very low T (~100),

> but still

> > > feel great with no sexual dysfunction yet - at

> age 59. I am

> > > already being treated for several other chronic

> conditions

> > > (heart, vascular, blood - MGUS, thyroid, etc.),

> which makes

> > > my primary physician fearful of drug interactions

> and

> > > side-effects, so I won't begin TRT until later

> this year. My

> > > Estradiol level is 'okay' per the Doc.

> > > ...He will likely refer me to an Endo or Uro, but

> as we

> > > read the warnings from this group, there doesn't

> seem to be

> > > any classification of practicing physicians or

> specialists

> > > that ARE recommended. D.O.s are scarce in NY, so

> that really

> > > isn't a choice. E.g., is Dr an MD, or more

> like a

> > > homeopathic, holistic practitioner? ?  Who the

> heck do

> > > we even call to ask the 'questions' of (none in

> the database

> > > are nearby)?? Most Family or General

> Practitioners or even

> > > Internists recognize the complexity and don't

> want the

> > > responsibility - they'll almost always refer us

> to a

> > > specialist who works with dozens of men

> continuously.

> > > ............ ......... ......... .........

> ......... ....

> > > ...Please let us know if the statements below are

> not on

> > > track:

> > > ... For low T, most men of age 60+ that seek

> treatment are

> > > given Testosterone in one of many forms - gel,

> pellets,

> > > patches, injections, buccal, or oral.

> (Occasionally,

> > > supplements of Zinc, HCG or Indolplex/DIM may

> suffice). The

> > > concensus among this board's members is that a

> weekly shot

> > > of T-cypionate is most effective - no matter what

> the Doc is

> > > pushing.

> > > ... If Estradiol is high or goes high after

> beginning TRT,

> > > Arimidex is most effective for reducing it. Since

> its

> > > availability is iffy in the US (or insurance may

> squawk),

> > > Indolplex/DIM may serve as a substitute.

> > > ... If Estradiol goes low, stop the Arim

> temporarily until

> > > the 'wood-gage' returns to normal. In extreme

> cases, DHEA

> > > may help.

> > > ... If LH and/or FSH are low (indicating

> secondary hypo-g),

> > > testicular shrinkage can be negated by

> introducing HCG.

> > > ... Side-effects of TRT, or its related therapies

> can

> > > include liver damage, gynecomastia (or even

> breast cancer),

> > > ankle swelling, prostatitis (or BHP or cancer),

> nausea,

> > > vomiting, low HDL, etc.

> > > ..Overly-simplified , and intentionally ignoring

> your

> > > discussions of DHT, SHBG, Cortisol, GH, which we

> don't

> > > understand yet at all, these talking points seem

> to be 'the

> > > basics'.   

> > > ..When we read what some of you are going through

> - trying

> > > to stay within range in every way, it sometimes

> isn't clear

> > > that beginning TRT is even 'worth it' -

> especially since we

> > > still have something to lose.

> > > ............ ...... & V...........

> ......... .

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>