Re: florinef question

April 5, 2011

The other problem I face is that since my test is converting to E2, I don't

get any beneficial effects from test for my thyroid anyways.

On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 9:16 AM, Rouse

<michael.hugh.rouse@...>wrote:

> Phil,

>

> There is nothing on there that talks about using it for TRT. How would I

> dose it? Is it even safe? It was removed from the market for reasons of it

> being too strong of an anabolic steroid. What do you think?

>

> Thanks,

>

> Mike

>

> On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 8:44 AM, philip georgian <pmgamer18@...>wrote:

>

>>

>> I just posted a link to a cream from a bodybuilding site for lower E2

>> levels I would try this first. Or do like Dr. is now doing a low 25 mgs

>> dose / day of Clomid. If you come off TRT it will mess up your Thyroid due

>> to the stress you going to have. Try this see if it works first.

>> https://www.mrsupps.com/Products/18/Forma+Stanzol/

>>

>> Co-Moderator

>> Phil

>>

>> > > > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > > > > My aldosterone was

>> > 13 and my

>> > > > renin was like 300 (range ends at

>> > > > > > 150).

>> > > > > > > > > > My sodium was 138

>> > > > > > > > > > My potassium was

>> > 3.8

>> > > > > > > > > > Can't remember

>> > ranges but

>> > > > they are the standard ones.

>> > > > > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > > > > Thanks,

>> > > > > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > > > > Mike

>> > > > > >

>> > > > >

>> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

>> > removed]

>> > > > >

>> > > >

>> > > > --

>> > > > *Mike*

>> > > >

>> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

>> > removed]

>> > > >

>> > > > ------------------------------------

>> > > >

April 5, 2011

FORMA-STANZOL is the EXACT compound found in Lentaron I.M. Depot but looks to me

like it's part of it. Or they could not sell it.

Do you know that Testosteone meds are anabolic so whats the probelm.

The dose is 1/4 Tsp or 1.25 mls or 10 pumps. If you have high E2 levels and meds

give you sides this might work.

Back in the day we use to buy some thing like this it had DIM and Chrysin and

other things in it. It worked dam good to lower E's but the lab stopped making

it not enought people buying it.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > My

> aldosterone was

> > > 13 and my

> > > > > renin was like 300 (range ends at

> > > > > > > 150).

> > > > > > > > > > > My sodium

> was 138

> > > > > > > > > > > My

> potassium was

> > > 3.8

> > > > > > > > > > > Can't

> remember

> > > ranges but

> > > > > they are the standard ones.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Mike

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message

> have been

> > > removed]

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > --

> > > > > *Mike*

> > > > >

> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have

> been

> > > removed]

> > > > >

> > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > >

April 5, 2011

High E2 effects both Thyroid and Testosterone levels all the more reasion to try

it.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> >> > > > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > > > > My

> aldosterone was

> >> > 13 and my

> >> > > > renin was like 300 (range ends at

> >> > > > > > 150).

> >> > > > > > > > > > My

> sodium was 138

> >> > > > > > > > > > My

> potassium was

> >> > 3.8

> >> > > > > > > > > > Can't

> remember

> >> > ranges but

> >> > > > they are the standard ones.

> >> > > > > > > > > >

> Thanks,

> >> > > > > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > > > > Mike

> >> > > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this

> message have been

> >> > removed]

> >> > > > >

> >> > > >

> >> > > > --

> >> > > > *Mike*

> >> > > >

> >> > > > [Non-text portions of this message

> have been

> >> > removed]

> >> > > >

> ------------------------------------

> >> > > >

April 5, 2011

Okay Phil. You are very convincing... I'll talk this over with Dr. M

and see what he thinks. Thanks again for looking out for me.

Mike

On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 9:55 AM, philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

>

> High E2 effects both Thyroid and Testosterone levels all the more reasion

> to try it.

>

> Co-Moderator

> Phil

>

> > >> > > > > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > > > > > My

> > aldosterone was

> > >> > 13 and my

> > >> > > > renin was like 300 (range ends at

> > >> > > > > > 150).

> > >> > > > > > > > > > My

> > sodium was 138

> > >> > > > > > > > > > My

> > potassium was

> > >> > 3.8

> > >> > > > > > > > > > Can't

> > remember

> > >> > ranges but

> > >> > > > they are the standard ones.

> > >> > > > > > > > > >

> > Thanks,

> > >> > > > > > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > > > > > Mike

> > >> > > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this

> > message have been

> > >> > removed]

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > >

> > >> > > > --

> > >> > > > *Mike*

> > >> > > >

> > >> > > > [Non-text portions of this message

> > have been

> > >> > removed]

> > >> > > >

> > ------------------------------------

> > >> > > >

April 5, 2011

Phil,

What about it's ability to reduce progesterone? Would that be a concern?

THanks,

Mike

On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 9:54 AM, philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

>

> FORMA-STANZOL is the EXACT compound found in Lentaron I.M. Depot but looks

> to me like it's part of it. Or they could not sell it.

>

> Do you know that Testosteone meds are anabolic so whats the probelm.

>

> The dose is 1/4 Tsp or 1.25 mls or 10 pumps. If you have high E2 levels and

> meds give you sides this might work.

>

> Back in the day we use to buy some thing like this it had DIM and Chrysin

> and other things in it. It worked dam good to lower E's but the lab stopped

> making it not enought people buying it.

>

> Co-Moderator

> Phil

>

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > My

> > aldosterone was

> > > > 13 and my

> > > > > > renin was like 300 (range ends at

> > > > > > > > 150).

> > > > > > > > > > > > My sodium

> > was 138

> > > > > > > > > > > > My

> > potassium was

> > > > 3.8

> > > > > > > > > > > > Can't

> > remember

> > > > ranges but

> > > > > > they are the standard ones.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Mike

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message

> > have been

> > > > removed]

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --

> > > > > > *Mike*

> > > > > >

> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have

> > been

> > > > removed]

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > >

April 5, 2011

I think what happens is men doing a cycle end up high on this maybe someone will

reply to your post at Dr. 's. I know stoping TRT is not a good Idea and if

you can get your E2 down your problems will get much better.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> My

> > > aldosterone was

> > > > > 13 and my

> > > > > > > renin was like 300 (range

> ends at

> > > > > > > > > 150).

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> My sodium

> > > was 138

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> My

> > > potassium was

> > > > > 3.8

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> Can't

> > > remember

> > > > > ranges but

> > > > > > > they are the standard ones.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> Thanks,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> Mike

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of

> this message

> > > have been

> > > > > removed]

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > *Mike*

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this

> message have

> > > been

> > > > > removed]

> > > > > > >

> ------------------------------------

> > > > > > >

April 5, 2011

Phil, at this point I think that is my only problem. When I take aromasin,

aside from the crazy heart palps that cause me discomfort, I actually feel

much better. I think the E2 is preventing me from getting benefits from

thyroid and other therapies....

On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 12:26 PM, philip georgian <pmgamer18@...>wrote:

>

> I think what happens is men doing a cycle end up high on this maybe someone

> will reply to your post at Dr. 's. I know stoping TRT is not a good Idea

> and if you can get your E2 down your problems will get much better.

>

> Co-Moderator

> Phil

>

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > My

> > > > aldosterone was

> > > > > > 13 and my

> > > > > > > > renin was like 300 (range

> > ends at

> > > > > > > > > > 150).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > My sodium

> > > > was 138

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > My

> > > > potassium was

> > > > > > 3.8

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > Can't

> > > > remember

> > > > > > ranges but

> > > > > > > > they are the standard ones.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > Thanks,

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > Mike

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of

> > this message

> > > > have been

> > > > > > removed]

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > > *Mike*

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this

> > message have

> > > > been

> > > > > > removed]

> > > > > > > >

> > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > > >

April 5, 2011

I don't think it is I know it is.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > My

> > > > > aldosterone was

> > > > > > > 13 and my

> > > > > > > > > renin was like 300

> (range

> > > ends at

> > > > > > > > > > > 150).

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > My sodium

> > > > > was 138

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > My

> > > > > potassium was

> > > > > > > 3.8

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > Can't

> > > > > remember

> > > > > > > ranges but

> > > > > > > > > they are the

> standard ones.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> >

> > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> >

> > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > Mike

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > [Non-text

> portions of

> > > this message

> > > > > have been

> > > > > > > removed]

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > > > *Mike*

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions

> of this

> > > message have

> > > > > been

> > > > > > > removed]

> > > > > > > > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > > > >

> Links

> > > > > > > > >

> -fullfeatured

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > *Mike*

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this

> message have

> > > been

> > > > > removed]

> > > > > > >

> ------------------------------------

> > > > > > >

April 5, 2011

Mike, salt water won't effectively raise your serum sodium level. Sodium

level is tied to sodium retention and not really related to salt intake

much.

Not that salt doesn't help some people and some do get their sodium level to

go up a little, but it's rarely ever the solution.

I'm not experienced with moving from T3 over to desiccated, so I'm learning

how to do this as I've never really successfully moved in this direction

before. But, I'd have to question what you're supposed to do when the T4

does build higher if you've already added two grains. Do you hold increasing

natural thyroid and then knock off T3 over time? I've always heard that

desiccated thyroid should be increased slower than a grain or two more at a

time.

-Nigel

On 4 April 2011 23:16, Rouse <michael.hugh.rouse@...> wrote:

> Hi NIgel,

>

> Maybe I should just continue the potassium and sea salt and see how that

> goes?

>

> Yes, I did switch over a couple of days ago. I started with 1 grain and

> reduced my T3 dose to 60mcg. A couple of days later, I added in another

> grain and reduced my T3 by another 20 mcg, which puts me at 40 mcg of T3.

> So far, I feel like a space cadet but I also feel like my brain is more

> relaxed and that I am having an easier time processing info. But I

> definitely feel hypo right now and, like you said, weird. I also have this

> weird symptom; I'm not as sensitive to pain since switching. Is this a hypo

> symptom?

>

> BTW, I am on the generic for armour - NP Thyroid. Seems to be okay but

> doesn't deliver the punch that Armour or Naturthroid does. Maybe that's a

> good thing though.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Mike

>

April 5, 2011

Two grains of NTH is = to 50 mcgs of T3 only.

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> > Hi NIgel,

> >

> > Maybe I should just continue the potassium and sea

> salt and see how that

> > goes?

> >

> > Yes, I did switch over a couple of days ago. I started

> with 1 grain and

> > reduced my T3 dose to 60mcg. A couple of days

> later, I added in another

> > grain and reduced my T3 by another 20 mcg, which puts

> me at 40 mcg of T3.

> > So far, I feel like a space cadet but I also feel like

> my brain is more

> > relaxed and that I am having an easier time

> processing info. But I

> > definitely feel hypo right now and, like you said,

> weird. I also have this

> > weird symptom; I'm not as sensitive to pain since

> switching. Is this a hypo

> > symptom?

> >

> > BTW, I am on the generic for armour - NP

> Thyroid. Seems to be okay but

> > doesn't deliver the punch that Armour or Naturthroid

> does. Maybe that's a

> > good thing though.

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> > Mike

> >

>

April 5, 2011

I thoight that there was only 9 mcg of t3 in one grain. So wouldmt two

grains contain only 18 mcg?

Mike

On Apr 5, 2011 4:08 PM, " philip georgian " <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

Two grains of NTH is = to 50 mcgs of T3 only.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Nigel <nachonigel@...>

> Subject: Re: florinef question

>

> Date: Tuesday, April 5, 2011, 5:52 PM

> Mike, salt water won't effectively

> raise your serum sodium level. Sodium

> level is tied to sod...

> ------------------------------------

>

April 5, 2011

See, I think that exchange rate is trouble. It takes into account just the

T3 and fails to remember that direct T2 in desiccated drives metabolism.

Lastly, T4 starts converting immediately; starts with the first time you add

or raise T4. You just don't have much T4 to convert at first, mind you, but

give it time to build.

Perhaps you feel strange as you've suddenly added so much desiccated. Have

you thought if you just need to give it time to build and then wean more T3

before you add more natural thyroid?

I figured if nearly half that T4 goes to T3 (being optimistic) and you add

in the direct T3 without forgetting the T2 that one grain could potentially

perform *better* than 25 mcg T3. My experience so far has suggested this.

However, obviously everyone will respond differently and I'm not including

those with a definite RT3 problem that means T4 doesn't work.

I was on 3 grains N-T/25 mcg T3. I moved to 3.5 gr N-T/12.5 mcg T3 and

within a few days I started to notice I was feeling warmer than before (I do

respond to T4 very quickly). So I halved T3 again down to 6.25 mcg T3 and

raised natural thyroid to 3.75 gr. If I start getting warm again then the T3

goes completely.

I'll note again that I take that Candex enzyme to destroy cellulose in the

Nature-Throid and the T3 I'm on. Without it the cellulose-ridden thyroid

meds hardly work.

-Nigel

On 5 April 2011 17:22, Rouse <michael.hugh.rouse@...> wrote:

>

> I thoight that there was only 9 mcg of t3 in one grain. So wouldmt two

> grains contain only 18 mcg?

>

> Mike

>

> On Apr 5, 2011 4:08 PM, " philip georgian " <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

>

> Two grains of NTH is = to 50 mcgs of T3 only.

> Co-Moderator

> Phil

>

April 5, 2011

Nigel,

You have a good point. I was told that since I'm on so much T3, that I would

need to add in NTH pretty quickly. I was also told that it would make me

feel hypo for about 3-4 while the T4 kicks in. So, I'm sure that is what is

making me feel hypo.

On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 4:40 PM, Nigel <nachonigel@...> wrote:

>

> See, I think that exchange rate is trouble. It takes into account just the

> T3 and fails to remember that direct T2 in desiccated drives metabolism.

> Lastly, T4 starts converting immediately; starts with the first time you

> add

> or raise T4. You just don't have much T4 to convert at first, mind you, but

> give it time to build.

>

> Perhaps you feel strange as you've suddenly added so much desiccated. Have

> you thought if you just need to give it time to build and then wean more T3

> before you add more natural thyroid?

>

> I figured if nearly half that T4 goes to T3 (being optimistic) and you add

> in the direct T3 without forgetting the T2 that one grain could potentially

> perform *better* than 25 mcg T3. My experience so far has suggested this.

> However, obviously everyone will respond differently and I'm not including

> those with a definite RT3 problem that means T4 doesn't work.

>

> I was on 3 grains N-T/25 mcg T3. I moved to 3.5 gr N-T/12.5 mcg T3 and

> within a few days I started to notice I was feeling warmer than before (I

> do

> respond to T4 very quickly). So I halved T3 again down to 6.25 mcg T3 and

> raised natural thyroid to 3.75 gr. If I start getting warm again then the

> T3

> goes completely.

>

> I'll note again that I take that Candex enzyme to destroy cellulose in the

> Nature-Throid and the T3 I'm on. Without it the cellulose-ridden thyroid

> meds hardly work.

>

> -Nigel

>

> On 5 April 2011 17:22, Rouse <michael.hugh.rouse@...> wrote:

>

> >

> > I thoight that there was only 9 mcg of t3 in one grain. So wouldmt two

> > grains contain only 18 mcg?

> >

> > Mike

> >

> > On Apr 5, 2011 4:08 PM, " philip georgian " <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

> >

> > Two grains of NTH is = to 50 mcgs of T3 only.

> > Co-Moderator

> > Phil

> >

>

April 5, 2011

Have you looked at temps any? I don't bother with them much, but I did two

late evening readings and I was 98.5 F / 36.9 C two days ago and 98.7 F / 37

C tonight.

I hardly felt cold the other evening when I was outside walking. I'm

definitely feeling warmer on more dessicated. It's enough of a change to

almost worry me that I'm going hyper.

-Nigel

On 5 April 2011 19:04, Rouse <michael.hugh.rouse@...> wrote:

> Nigel,

>

> You have a good point. I was told that since I'm on so much T3, that I

> would

> need to add in NTH pretty quickly. I was also told that it would make me

> feel hypo for about 3-4 while the T4 kicks in. So, I'm sure that is what

> is

> making me feel hypo.

>

> On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 4:40 PM, Nigel <nachonigel@...> wrote:

>

> >

> > See, I think that exchange rate is trouble. It takes into account just

> the

> > T3 and fails to remember that direct T2 in desiccated drives metabolism.

> > Lastly, T4 starts converting immediately; starts with the first time you

> > add

> > or raise T4. You just don't have much T4 to convert at first, mind you,

> but

> > give it time to build.

> >

> > Perhaps you feel strange as you've suddenly added so much desiccated.

> Have

> > you thought if you just need to give it time to build and then wean more

> T3

> > before you add more natural thyroid?

> >

> > I figured if nearly half that T4 goes to T3 (being optimistic) and you

> add

> > in the direct T3 without forgetting the T2 that one grain could

> potentially

> > perform *better* than 25 mcg T3. My experience so far has suggested this.

> > However, obviously everyone will respond differently and I'm not

> including

> > those with a definite RT3 problem that means T4 doesn't work.

> >

> > I was on 3 grains N-T/25 mcg T3. I moved to 3.5 gr N-T/12.5 mcg T3 and

> > within a few days I started to notice I was feeling warmer than before (I

> > do

> > respond to T4 very quickly). So I halved T3 again down to 6.25 mcg T3 and

> > raised natural thyroid to 3.75 gr. If I start getting warm again then the

> > T3

> > goes completely.

> >

> > I'll note again that I take that Candex enzyme to destroy cellulose in

> the

> > Nature-Throid and the T3 I'm on. Without it the cellulose-ridden thyroid

> > meds hardly work.

> >

> > -Nigel

> >

> > On 5 April 2011 17:22, Rouse <michael.hugh.rouse@...>

> wrote:

> >

> > >

> > > I thoight that there was only 9 mcg of t3 in one grain. So wouldmt two

> > > grains contain only 18 mcg?

> > >

> > > Mike

> > >

> > > On Apr 5, 2011 4:08 PM, " philip georgian " <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

> > >

> > > Two grains of NTH is = to 50 mcgs of T3 only.

> > > Co-Moderator

> > > Phil

>

April 6, 2011

Nigel,

What is you basal temp now and before thyroid meds?

Antanas

> > > >

> > > > Two grains of NTH is = to 50 mcgs of T3 only.

> > > > Co-Moderator

> > > > Phil

> >

>

April 6, 2011

Mike,

I am in the same boat exactly. I am not T3/HC without any achievements

Now thinking about florinef and changing to erfa.

Antanas

> > >

> > > Two grains of NTH is = to 50 mcgs of T3 only.

> > > Co-Moderator

> > > Phil

> > >

> >

April 6, 2011

Antanas,

yeah, I've heard that some people just cant handle T3 only and need to add

in some T4. Have you had an aldosterone and renin test? You should get

these tests done first before adding in florinef.

Mike

On Wed, Apr 6, 2011 at 12:12 AM, antanas_aradas <antanas_aradas@...>wrote:

>

> Mike,

>

> I am in the same boat exactly. I am not T3/HC without any achievements

> Now thinking about florinef and changing to erfa.

>

> Antanas

>

> > > >

> > > > Two grains of NTH is = to 50 mcgs of T3 only.

> > > > Co-Moderator

> > > > Phil

> > > >

> > >

April 6, 2011

You know I just don't know who to believe about this in this link the good Dr.

says 2 grains = 200 mcgs of Synthroid and 50 mcgs of T3. And my Dr. says the

same thing.

http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/woliner.htm

===================================================

120 mg (2 grains) per day of Armour Thyroid (equivalent doses would be 200

mcg/day Synthroid/Levoxyl (T4) or 50 mcg/day Cytomel (T3).

----------------------------------------------------

At STTM they have this.

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/armour-vs-other-brands/

====================================================

One grain is 60 mg and contains 38 mg of T4 and 9 mcg of T3, plus unmeasured

amounts of T2, T1 and calcitonin

---------------------------------------------------

Some where is this link Gail takes about it.

http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/w/u/wurmstei/#MEDS

----------------------------------------------------

In the process of looking for info about this I came accross this link by Dr.

marianco a must read to even Tom.

Here is a cut and paste from one post he did of many in this thread.

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/callin-marianco-swale-please-13\

4246742.html

====================================================

1. TRT ideally should have a target of getting total testosterone to at least

650 ng/dl, while trying to keep the testosterone mostly within the physiologic

range, i.e. max 1000 ng/dl. This can be difficult with some forms of TRT. For

example, an oil-based testosterone cream can have peaks of testosterone up to

4000 ng/dl, with a half-life of about 12 hours. But the peak is very short-lived

in this case and can be acceptable if not a good treatment for many men.

2. If problems such as decreased sex drive persist when total testosterone is

over 650 ng/dl, then testosterone itself is not the problem. There are other

neurotransmitter/hormone/immune system cytokine problems occurring - which need

to be evaluated and treated.

3. Having an appropriate amount of estrogens, particularly estradiol (the most

potent one), is important for sex drive. Estrogens provide sexual aggression -

which means it contributes to the desire to have sex. An estradiol level gives a

good indication of the total estrogen activity since all the estrogens actually

determine estradiol level (when not done as a fractionated estrogens test).

4. An aromatase inhibitor can drive estradiol too low, causing a loss of sex

drive. When estradiol is too low, testosterone many even increase blood pressure

rather than reduce blood pressure.

5. Thyroid hormone deficiency can reduce sex drive, as well as energy.

6. Cortisol deficiency - e.g. from adrenal fatigue - can reduce sex drive.

Cortisol deficiency impairs the mind's ability to reduce norepinephrine levels.

This is necessary to relax a person. Sex is a resting function as opposed to a

fight-or-fllight function.

7. High progesterone levels can excessively sensitize a person to estrogens,

which can lead to reduced sex drive. Progesterone can also reduce DHT production

by blocking alpha-reductase enzyme. This may lead to a reduction in sex drive,

particularly if total testosterone is low and DHT's influence is necessary to

promote sex drive.

8. Progesterone is primarily produced in the adrenal glands, along with the rest

of the adrenal cortex hormones in response to ACTH, which is released in

response to stress or reduced energy levels (such as from hypothyroidism) with

higher need for cortisol production. Progesterone production is largely

independent of estradiol production.

9. To reduce progesterone, one has to reduce external stress levels as well as

address hypothyroidism and cortisol deficiency/adrenal fatigue.

10. Adequate progesterone is needed to have sex drive.

11. Testosterone pellets can work well with many men. It keeps total

testosterone at nearly absolutely even levels. There is no roller coaster

effect. By gradually releasing testosterone, one nearly completely avoid

problems with estradiol and DHT. Testosterone pellets however ties the person to

their physician, making the person dependent on their physician. One can't

travel for extensive periods of time, for example, since one has to have the

pellets inserted surgically about once every 3 months. The person has less

independence from their physician. There are few physicians that do the pellets

because it is a more invasive procedure and many disagree with that philosophy,

calling it a primitive form of medicine. However, for the person that can live

with the physician dependency, travel limitations and the idea of having an

invasive procedure regularly done, testosterone pellets actually can be the best

form of TRT since it greatly simplifies

treatment and can be very effective.

12. If one can correct thyroid and adrenal problems first - completely

optimizing thyroid hormone and adrenal gland function - which unfortunately is

not often done - then one can have good sex drive with lower levels of

testosterone and with lower levels of testosterone replacement. This is one

reason the Endocrine Society's guidelines for TRT indicate that one must not

just treat low testosterone levels when there is not symptom of a deficiency.

Treat the person not the labs - as one of the important lessons in physician

training states.

__________________

Any statement I make on this site is for educational purposes only and will

change as medical knowledge progresses. It does not constitute medical advice,

does not substitute for proper medical evaluation from physician, does not

create a doctor/patient relationship or liability. If you would like medical

advice, please ask your doctor. Thank you.

Read more from the MESO-Rx Steroid Forum at:

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/callin-marianco-swale-please-13\

4246742.html#ixzz1IkhXNy8C

---------------------------------------------------

I think your right about how much T3 is in Armour but I still find 2 grains is =

to about 200 mcgs. of T4.

http://www.drumlib.com/dp/000016.htm

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> > From: Nigel <nachonigel@...>

>

> > Subject: Re: florinef question

> >

> > Date: Tuesday, April 5, 2011, 5:52 PM

>

> > Mike, salt water won't effectively

> > raise your serum sodium level. Sodium

> > level is tied to sod...

>

> > ------------------------------------

> >

April 6, 2011

Antanas, I never checked it before thyroid meds and haven't been testing it

lately.

-Nigel

On 6 April 2011 01:11, antanas_aradas <antanas_aradas@...> wrote:

>

> Nigel,

>

> What is you basal temp now and before thyroid meds?

>

> Antanas

>

April 7, 2011

Potassium 4.6 3.8-5.3

Sodium 138 134-145

Aldosterone 495.8 35-300 (not lying 2hous)

renin 31.6 1,6-14.7 HIGH

I have tested, but its something wrong with results.

I stopped all supplements for 5 days and will repeat theses tests again.

I pasted my results on NTHAdrenals group and i got private msg about high

aldosterone/renin together.

He/she says that taking high vitamin D3(i take 4000 UI), together with calcium

you absorb a lot of calcium from stomach, and when your body tries to get rid of

too much calcium, then you get calcification. Calcification could be reason for

high aldosterone/renin together

Antanas

> > > > >

> > > > > Two grains of NTH is = to 50 mcgs of T3 only.

> > > > > Co-Moderator

> > > > > Phil

> > > > >

> > > >

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