RE: Testicular Shrinkage and HCG

[Guest guest]

You can order HCG on line your self, if you need to go that route, but it is not

adviseable with out your drs consent. Some times HCG can cause issues itself due

to increases in e2 like it does with many guys. For me HCG is not the worth the

rollercoaster ride, I prefer to have small nuts, and feel stable. They big balls

and feel like crap.

Phil will post dr's crislers paper on HCG which you can take to your dr for

reference.

>

> Does anyone on this forum see Dr.s in Auburn HillS,Mi? I talked to him

about HCG for testicular shinkage and low ejaculate volume due to HRT and didn't

get a real positive feedback.

I was wondering if anyone else has talked to him of this problem and what his

responce was. I know this may seem like a minor side effect in the overall

picture of our health concerns but as far as I can figure it is something that

may be treatable.I am currently on 50ml injectable testosterone 2X weekly and a

1/4 teaspoon of bioidentical cream per day.My numbers have been excellent upper

800 and am due for blood work on March 16 with a doctors exam on the 26.Thanks

again for all of the info provided on the forum and its moderators.It sure helps

keep us and our medical providers up todate on a subject that for the most part

is overlooked.

>

> Butch

>

[Guest guest]

Butch,

Yes he is my Dr. but I feel the way you asked him for this could have been

better. I would have told him I want to add this so I can help to keep my

levels up by keeping my Testis working. If he feels your Primary adding HCG to

him could give you more problems with Estradiol then adding T from your testis.

What were you labs like when you were fist tested with your LH and FSH.

Some men that had better levels before TRT say 300 to 350 using HCG will keep

there testis working but not a big dose 150 to 250 IU's the day before your next

shot is all that's needed.

If you had very low levels of TT on your labs like less then 150 with very high

levels of LH and FSH all HCG will do for you is make more Estraidol.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Gasper Patrico <gasperpatrico@...>

> Subject: Testicular Shrinkage and HCG

>

> Date: Monday, March 7, 2011, 11:22 AM

> Does anyone on this forum see

> Dr.s in Auburn HillS,Mi? I talked to him about HCG for

> testicular shinkage and low ejaculate volume due to HRT and

> didn't get a real positive feedback.     

>                

>                

>               I was

> wondering if anyone else has talked to him of this problem

> and what his responce was. I know this may seem like a minor

> side effect in the overall picture of our health concerns

> but as far as I can figure it is something that may be

> treatable.I am currently on 50ml injectable testosterone 2X

> weekly and a 1/4 teaspoon of bioidentical cream per day.My

> numbers have been excellent upper 800 and am due for blood

> work on March 16 with a doctors exam on the 26.Thanks again

> for all of the info provided on the forum and its

> moderators.It sure helps keep us and our medical providers

> up todate on a subject that for the most part is

> overlooked.

>

> Butch             

>              

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Im primary, and never read hcg can increase estrogen. I took a few shots, now I

must stop... This sucks

Testicular Shrinkage and HCG

>

> Date: Monday, March 7, 2011, 11:22 AM

> Does anyone on this forum see

> Dr.s in Auburn HillS,Mi? I talked to him about HCG for

> testicular shinkage and low ejaculate volume due to HRT and

> didn't get a real positive feedback.     

>                

[The entire original message is not included]

[Guest guest]

I did not say if you are primary you can't take HCG I said if your testis don't

work and your first set of labs were less then 150.

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> > From: Gasper Patrico <gasperpatrico@...>

> > Subject: Testicular Shrinkage and HCG

> >

> > Date: Monday, March 7, 2011, 11:22 AM

> > Does anyone on this forum see

> > Dr.s in Auburn HillS,Mi? I talked to him about

> HCG for

> > testicular shinkage and low ejaculate volume due to

> HRT and

> > didn't get a real positive feedback.     

> >                

>

> [The entire original message is not included]

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> > From: Gasper Patrico <gasperpatrico@...>

> > Subject: Testicular Shrinkage and HCG

> >

> > Date: Monday, March 7, 2011, 11:22 AM

> > Does anyone on this forum see

> > Dr.s in Auburn HillS,Mi? I talked to him about HCG for

> > testicular shinkage and low ejaculate volume due to HRT and

> > didn't get a real positive feedback.     

> >                

> >                

> >               I was

> > wondering if anyone else has talked to him of this problem

> > and what his responce was. I know this may seem like a minor

> > side effect in the overall picture of our health concerns

> > but as far as I can figure it is something that may be

> > treatable.I am currently on 50ml injectable testosterone 2X

> > weekly and a 1/4 teaspoon of bioidentical cream per day.My

> > numbers have been excellent upper 800 and am due for blood

> > work on March 16 with a doctors exam on the 26.Thanks again

> > for all of the info provided on the forum and its

> > moderators.It sure helps keep us and our medical providers

> > up todate on a subject that for the most part is

> > overlooked.

> >

> > Butch             

> >              

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Butch, I very much doubt you inject 50 mL of testosterone. Perhaps a half

mL, or 0.5 mL. Over a couple of years the testosterone does cause shrinkage,

and when I can afford the HCG such as Novarel it helps. Tom

>

> Does anyone on this forum see Dr.s in Auburn HillS,Mi? I talked to him

about HCG for testicular shinkage and low ejaculate volume due to HRT and didn't

get a real positive feedback.

I was wondering if anyone else has talked to him of this problem and what his

responce was. I know this may seem like a minor side effect in the overall

picture of our health concerns but as far as I can figure it is something that

may be treatable.I am currently on 50ml injectable testosterone 2X weekly and a

1/4 teaspoon of bioidentical cream per day.My numbers have been excellent upper

800 and am due for blood work on March 16 with a doctors exam on the 26.Thanks

again for all of the info provided on the forum and its moderators.It sure helps

keep us and our medical providers up todate on a subject that for the most part

is overlooked.

>

> Butch

>

[Guest guest]

I was saying, I didn't read from you or anyone else that HCG increases estrogen

prior to me buying it online... This is a problem for me now, do I continue to

have larger testis or discontinue now... Night

Re: Testicular Shrinkage and HCG

>

>

> Butch,

>

> Yes he is my Dr. but I feel the way you asked him for this

> could have been better. I would have told him I want to add

> this so I can help to keep my levels up by keeping my Testis

> working. If he feels your Primary adding HCG to him could

> give you more proble

[The entire original message is not included]

[Guest guest]

I know how you feel it took a post to me from Dr. to get him to give me

HCG. One thing is getting your Health Care Plain to pay for it. He had to send

in paper work over and over again to get them to cover my HCG I use Novarel.

What you sould do is see if this is covered by your health care plain if not get

it from over seas from the ADC you don't need a script and the price is less.

My Novarel is would cost you about $100 to $150 / month and you end up througing

half of it out after 30 days. It needs to be mixed and after it's mixed to keep

it needs to be in the fridge. If you buy from the ADC you can get vials that

are only 2000 IU's mine is 10,000 IU's.

If your Health Care plain will not pay for it just tell him your going to get it

from over seas in the mail and ask if he is OK with that.

Here is a copy of the reply to a post Dr. sent me to help me get my Dr. to

let me try HCG.

After trying it this is how we figured out I am Hypopituitary or Secondary using

the HCG and doing labs my Total T levels doubled meaning my Testis work.

==================================================

From Dr. at www.allthingsmale.com

No. He probably feels that since you suffer primary hypogonadism (I am guessing)

there is no use in adding HCG to your protocol. There are several reasons why

this is not so. First, you have not lost all Leydig cells, so any HCG you take

will stimulate those who still function to produce endogenous testosterone.

This will support testicular size. We should not ignore this aesthetic

consideration.

Next, if he reads my work, he will learn that HPTA-suppressed (as all TRT

patients are to some extent) also suffer decreased pregenenolone levels, which

is the first step after CHOL in all three hormonal pathways which begin with

CHOL. HCG increases pregnenolone production, and therefore restores a more

natural balance of our hormones.

Next, nearly all TRT patients who add in HCG to their regimens report an

increased sense of well-being and also libido. These are genuine quality of life

issues.

Finally, I just instinctively do not want all those LH receptors (including

those we have yet to discover and appreciate) unstimulated.

And this link supports what he says.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/90/5/2595

One thing about using HCG when your on TRT your brain stops sending the LH and

FSH messages to your Testis and other LH cells in your body and brain. So

adding in HCG makes them cells to back to work.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Gasper Patrico <gasperpatrico@...>

> Subject: Re: Testicular Shrinkage and HCG

>

> Date: Monday, March 7, 2011, 7:13 PM

>

>

> >

> > > From: Gasper Patrico <gasperpatrico@...>

> > > Subject: Testicular Shrinkage and

> HCG

> > >

> > > Date: Monday, March 7, 2011, 11:22 AM

> > > Does anyone on this forum see

> > > Dr.s in Auburn HillS,Mi? I talked to him

> about HCG for

> > > testicular shinkage and low ejaculate volume due

> to HRT and

> > > didn't get a real positive feedback.     

> > >                

> > >                

> > >               I was

> > > wondering if anyone else has talked to him of

> this problem

> > > and what his responce was. I know this may seem

> like a minor

> > > side effect in the overall picture of our health

> concerns

> > > but as far as I can figure it is something that

> may be

> > > treatable.I am currently on 50ml injectable

> testosterone 2X

> > > weekly and a 1/4 teaspoon of bioidentical cream

> per day.My

> > > numbers have been excellent upper 800 and am due

> for blood

> > > work on March 16 with a doctors exam on the

> 26.Thanks again

> > > for all of the info provided on the forum and

> its

> > > moderators.It sure helps keep us and our medical

> providers

> > > up todate on a subject that for the most part is

> > > overlooked.

> > >

> > > Butch             

> > >              

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Your not on TRT in men on TRT and using HCG there Estradiol Can go up not all

the men but some of them so much so I talk about it so they will test this. You

only doing HCG and not a lot I don't see a problem with what your doing.

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> > From: uu1845@...

> <uu1845@...>

> > Subject: RE: Testicular Shrinkage and

> HCG

> >

> > Date: Monday, March 7, 2011, 5:39 PM

> > Im primary, and never read hcg can

> > increase estrogen. I took a few shots, now I must

> stop...

> > This sucks

> >

> > Re: Testicular Shrinkage and

> HCG

> >

> >

> > Butch,

> >

> > Yes he is my Dr. but I feel the way you asked him for

> this

> > could have been better. I would have told him I want

> to add

> > this so I can help to keep my levels up by keeping my

> Testis

> > working. If he feels your Primary adding HCG to him

> could

> > give you more proble

>

> [The entire original message is not included]

>

>

[Guest guest]

Good morning, my script was accepted for TRT once again. Ill start using it on

Thursday. I have been taking per 4 days of 40cc of HCG. I dnt know if I will

continue HCG while on TRT. I just wanted to know what it feels like to feel and

look normal with my testis. I dnt see any change after 5 shots so far down

there. Have a good day to all

RE: Testicular Shrinkage and HCG

>

>

> I did not say if you are primary you can't take HCG I said

> if your testis don't work

[The entire original message is not included]

[Guest guest]

You will not see a diff. after just 5 shots I needed to do 500 IU's 3x's / week

to see a diff. But I did this with a Dr. don't try this without one.

If your going on TRT and what to keep your Testis working keep taking HCG but do

it like this. If your going on gels or creams everyday do 150 to 250 IU's every

3 days. If your going on shots once a week do 150 to 250 IU's the 2 days each

just before your next T shot.

Go to www.allthingsmale.com and read TRT: A Recipe for Success and the HCG

update.

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> > From: uu1845@...

> <uu1845@...>

> > Subject: RE: Testicular Shrinkage and

> HCG

> >

> > Date: Monday, March 7, 2011, 8:21 PM

> > I was saying, I didn't read from you

> > or anyone else that HCG increases estrogen prior to

> me

> > buying it online... This is a problem for me now, do

> I

> > continue to have larger testis or discontinue now...

> > Night 

> >

> > RE: Testicular Shrinkage and

> HCG

> >

> >

> > I did not say if you are primary you can't take HCG I

> said

> > if your testis don't work

>

> [The entire original message is not included]

>

>

[Guest guest]

Where is the science behind this statement regarding hcg - If you're going on

shots once a week do 150 to 250 IU's the 2 days each just before your next T

shot.

That's what Crisler says but I cannot find any studies that prove/disprove this

- BTW - he hasn't updated his protocols re HCG since 2004

Again - if hcg is given to women to help stimulate pregnancy it is therefore

designed to RAISE estrogen levels so why should men take it - cosmetic purposes

> >

> > > From: uu1845@...

> > <uu1845@...>

> > > Subject: RE: Testicular Shrinkage and

> > HCG

> > >

> > > Date: Monday, March 7, 2011, 8:21 PM

> > > I was saying, I didn't read from you

> > > or anyone else that HCG increases estrogen prior to

> > me

> > > buying it online... This is a problem for me now, do

> > I

> > > continue to have larger testis or discontinue now...

> > > Night 

> > >

> > > RE: Testicular Shrinkage and

> > HCG

> > >

> > >

> > > I did not say if you are primary you can't take HCG I

> > said

> > > if your testis don't work

> >

> > [The entire original message is not included]

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I get this all the time if there were enough studies out about men's hormones

men would not be coming here. I do have a one but if you want more you can

sarch for them there are some out there.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/90/5/2595

Even the Diet Dr.'s are making a killing using HCG to help people lose weight.

http://4hcgsuccess.com/hcg-protocol

If it were not for Bodybuilders doing Steroids we would not know much of

anything about men's hormones.

What Dr.'s feel are the top Dr. about Hormones Endo's the know nothing.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: cvictorg <cvgrashow@...>

> Subject: Re: Testicular Shrinkage and HCG

>

> Date: Tuesday, March 8, 2011, 12:41 PM

> Where is the science behind this

> statement regarding hcg - If you're going on shots once a

> week do 150 to 250 IU's the 2 days each just before your

> next T shot.

>

> That's what Crisler says but I cannot find any studies that

> prove/disprove this - BTW - he hasn't updated his protocols

> re HCG since 2004

>

> Again - if hcg is given to women to help stimulate

> pregnancy it is therefore designed to RAISE estrogen levels

> so why should men take it - cosmetic purposes

>

>

> > >

> > >  > From: uu1845@...

> > > <uu1845@...>

> > >  > Subject: RE: Testicular

> Shrinkage and

> > > HCG

> > >  >

> > >  > Date: Monday, March 7, 2011, 8:21 PM

> > >  > I was saying, I didn't read from you

> > >  > or anyone else that HCG increases

> estrogen prior to

> > > me

> > >  > buying it online... This is a problem

> for me now, do

> > > I

> > >  > continue to have larger testis or

> discontinue now...

> > >  > Night 

> > >  >

> > >  > RE: Testicular

> Shrinkage and

> > > HCG

> > >  >

> > >  >

> > >  > I did not say if you are primary you

> can't take HCG I

> > > said

> > >  > if your testis don't work

> > >

> > > [The entire original message is not included]

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

This study shows that 200mgs of test E + hcg puts you in the superphysiological

range

" low doses of hCG maintain baseline levels of ITT in men with gonadotropin

withdrawal from exogenous T administration. "

Again - people here are taking hcg to maintain testes size - ehere is the proof

for that??

> > > >

> > > >  > From: uu1845@

> > > > <uu1845@>

> > > >  > Subject: RE: Testicular

> > Shrinkage and

> > > > HCG

> > > >  >

> > > >  > Date: Monday, March 7, 2011, 8:21 PM

> > > >  > I was saying, I didn't read from you

> > > >  > or anyone else that HCG increases

> > estrogen prior to

> > > > me

> > > >  > buying it online... This is a problem

> > for me now, do

> > > > I

> > > >  > continue to have larger testis or

> > discontinue now...

> > > >  > Night 

> > > >  >

> > > >  > RE: Testicular

> > Shrinkage and

> > > > HCG

> > > >  >

> > > >  >

> > > >  > I did not say if you are primary you

> > can't take HCG I

> > > > said

> > > >  > if your testis don't work

> > > >

> > > > [The entire original message is not included]

> > > >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

I brought up studies and it didn't go too well for me. Be warned cvictorg...

RE: Testicular Shrinkage and HCG

> > hypogo

[The entire original message is not included]

[Guest guest]

Thanks, ill wait until I haven't taken TRT. I ll take a TRT shot and then a HCG

shot. Phil, now you say discuss with my endo doc, but prior you said dnt because

endo's are not good for hypogandism.

RE: Testicular Shrinkage and HCG

>

> Date: Tuesday, March 8, 2011, 10:43 AM

> Good morning, my script was accepted

> for TRT once again. Ill start using it on Thursday. I have

> been taking per 4 days of 40cc of HCG. I dnt know if I will

> continue HCG while on TRT. I just wanted to know what it

> feels like to feel and look normal with my testis. I dnt see

> any change after 5 shots so far down there. Have a good day

> to all

>

> -----Original Message--

[The entire original message is not included]

[Guest guest]

I can't help you I can tell you if your on TRT and your Testis work taking HCG

acts like the LH message from your Pituitary that tells your Testis to make T.

Being on TRT this message gets shut down and your testis stop working. I was on

TRT 23 yrs my testis were the size of small grapes going on HCG showed me and my

Dr. that my Testis do work and my TT levels on HCG doubled. Showing us I am

Secondary meaning I am Hypopituitary. My testis on HCG in a short time went

back up to there normal size. Even in the AACE Guildelines they say to tell if

your Primary or Secondary to do an HCG Stim. Test.

http://www.aace.com/pub/pdf/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: cvictorg <cvgrashow@...>

> Subject: Re: Testicular Shrinkage and HCG

>

> Date: Tuesday, March 8, 2011, 12:56 PM

> This study shows that 200mgs of test

> E + hcg puts you in the superphysiological range

>

> " low doses of hCG maintain baseline levels of ITT in men

> with gonadotropin withdrawal from exogenous T

> administration. "

>

>

> Again - people here are taking hcg to maintain testes size

> - ehere is the proof for that??

>

>

> > > > >

> > > > >  > From: uu1845@

> > > > > <uu1845@>

> > > > >  > Subject: RE:

> Testicular

> > > Shrinkage and

> > > > > HCG

> > > > >  >

> > > > >  > Date: Monday, March 7, 2011,

> 8:21 PM

> > > > >  > I was saying, I didn't read from

> you

> > > > >  > or anyone else that HCG

> increases

> > > estrogen prior to

> > > > > me

> > > > >  > buying it online... This is a

> problem

> > > for me now, do

> > > > > I

> > > > >  > continue to have larger testis

> or

> > > discontinue now...

> > > > >  > Night 

> > > > >  >

> > > > >  > RE:

> Testicular

> > > Shrinkage and

> > > > > HCG

> > > > >  >

> > > > >  >

> > > > >  > I did not say if you are primary

> you

> > > can't take HCG I

> > > > > said

> > > > >  > if your testis don't work

> > > > >

> > > > > [The entire original message is not

> included]

> > > > >

> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have

> been

> > > removed]

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

I would never tell anyone to discuss any dam thing with an Endo where do you get

this crap. Saying to talk to your Dr. is not saying to talk to an Endo they are

useless.

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> > From: uu1845@...

> <uu1845@...>

> > Subject: RE: Testicular Shrinkage and

> HCG

> >

> > Date: Tuesday, March 8, 2011, 10:43 AM

> > Good morning, my script was accepted

> > for TRT once again. Ill start using it on Thursday. I

> have

> > been taking per 4 days of 40cc of HCG. I dnt know if

> I will

> > continue HCG while on TRT. I just wanted to know what

> it

> > feels like to feel and look normal with my testis. I

> dnt see

> > any change after 5 shots so far down there. Have a

> good day

> > to all

> >

> > -----Original Message--

>

> [The entire original message is not included]

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ok Phil. I misread. Apparently I didn't read info regarding HCG can turn into E2

or taking HCG with TRT causes more risk factors than taking it alone.

RE: Testicular Shrinkage and HCG

>

>

> You will not see a diff. after just 5 shots I needed to do

> 500 IU's 3x's / week to see a diff. But I did this with a

> Dr. don't try this without one.

>

[The entire original message is not included]