Re: OK Friends I need your expert opinions on Natural Testosterone Booster

January 31, 2010

To start... I hope this is not an advertisement.

I find any product questionable that will not state the quantity and quality of

ingredients. Maca is purported to have beneficial properties but I would be

hesitant to take a blended product like this one. If you really are

hypogonadal, then it is highly probable that conventional TRT along with hCG and

support of other hormone systems will be the proper treatment plan. I don't

know your history but if you never acheived an adjusted state you may not have

had the proper doctor or a thorough enough plan.

IMHO, hCG alone may be a better path then this product, but, as they say, YMMV.

--- " vaiisking1026 " <vaiisking@...> wrote:

>

....Erox... Here are the ingredients but I don't know the amounts because it's

'proprietary'

>

> Yohimbe

> Guarana

> Long Jack (Tongkat Ali)

> Horny Goat Weed

> Tribulus Terrestris

> Korean Ginseng

> Maca

>

January 31, 2010

I have suffered from ED for about 5 years. I am now 60.

I have done OK with the ED drugs but lately my libido has started to

slip and the ED drugs, viagra et al, don't work as well.

In my search for solutions over the past 5 years I have tried these three

separately.

Tongkat Ali

Ginseng

Maca

Genseng I have found to be totally useless.

Maca - works a little bit. You can feel it in your genitals.

at least it's better than Genseng. I took large doses of

the actual extract for many months. I think its too tame

for the requirements of most people in this group.

Tongkat Ali.- This is an important herb. It's like maca on steroids.

Beware of where you source this stuff. Tongkat Ali comes from the root

of a small tree in Indonesia/Malaysia. To get the active ingredient out of it

the root must be boiled to make a tea and then the water taken out to leave an

extract. Standard extract is 1:50. which means 50 grams of root made into an

extract.

A lot of the stuff that is sold on the internet is ground up root powder, which

is useless, or it is a 1:5 extract which is too weak.

I use the 1:200 extract (the strongest). It is expensive. I have used it for

about 4 months now and I am getting to know the product

a lot better. Tongkat Ali will help a bit with erections but it primarily

raises libido. I personally need to use ED meds with it to have sex but I don't

need as much. While ed meds enable you to have sex, Tongkat Ali makes you want

sex and helps you to enjoy sex due to increased sensitivity and higher libido.

Side effect are almost insignificant, but if you take a lot, it can make you

aggressive and causes a dull headache. I believe it raises testosterone levels

but I haven't had a lab report since I went on it so I don't have proof.

Right now I am doing a little experiment. My theory is that my body is

converting too much testosterone to estrogen so I have added DIM to the Tongkat

Ali. I will respond to the group in a month or so about how this works out.

From what I have read here about the ratio of T and E2 I think my problem are

typical of men my age I may have a good chance for success.

In any case, I think that taking some concoction of various herbs makes it very

difficult to figure anything out. Its difficult enough to figure out what just

one herb is doing let alone 5 or six mixed together. I believe that some herbs

work but there is a lot of snake oil out there. Check your sources.

I have learned a lot from this group. I think the most valuable advice I have

learned is to find the right doctor. Something I still need to do.

>

> Guys,

>

> I haven't been here in a while because I stopped taking TRT due to it never

stablizing for me. I did however try several 'natural testosterone boosters' and

I have a product that I like and I believe that it indeed boosts mine if only a

small percent (which is huge to someone probably secondary and putting out like

250mg/dl on average bloodwork) It is called Erox, and it makes my voice deeper,

less anxiety, slight energy increase, wake up with erections....nice stuff. But

a side effect that I notice after taking it for appx 2 weeks is that my

testicles start to have a dull ache. Those of you whom have started TRT know

this feeling...the feeling of your balls before they start to atrophy. I stop

the product for like a week, feel like crap and can't wait to go back on it. I

don't understand why it does this when the premise is that it forces my lazy ass

balls to put out a little more from the Long Jack. Here are the ingredients but

I don't know the amounts because it's 'proprietary'

>

> Yohimbe

> Guarana

> Long Jack (Tongkat Ali)

> Horny Goat Weed

> Tribulus Terrestris

> Korean Ginseng

> Maca

>

> Any advice will help!

>

> P.S. Phil you rock man. It makes me smile to see you here 4 years since I left

and still helping people...you are an angel in disguise

>

> Vaiisking

>

January 31, 2010

> >

> ...Erox... Here are the ingredients but I don't know the amounts because it's

'proprietary'

> >

> > Yohimbe

> > Guarana

> > Long Jack (Tongkat Ali)

> > Horny Goat Weed

> > Tribulus Terrestris

> > Korean Ginseng

> > Maca

> >

>

No this is not an advertisement. I have had good doctors see me even Dr

Crisler, but for some reason I never did well on TRT. I haven't ruled out the

possibility for the future but that remains to be seen.

However, to the problem here...why do I get atrophy feeling balls taking this

stuff? It's supposed to push my testis to make more T not to be a substitute as

when you use T cream or injections. I just don't understand why they get achy.

Vaiisking

February 1, 2010

If you are truly hypogondal, then T boosters wont help you out at all. I

remember one time I took some T boosters, and my nuts just sagged for an hour

and then perked right back up. It was painful and annoying. Dont waste ur

loot on T Boosters. Altho there is one I want to try called Ball Refill (the

name cracks me up).

My balls hurt like hell too. My endo told me to get an MRI done to see if there

is nerve damage or something else. I use Test E 300mgs a week (SubQ). Only pain

I had was a back spasm that lasted for 2 to 3 days. I will be getting hCG soon

to see if I can revive my boys without Test.

> > >

> > ...Erox... Here are the ingredients but I don't know the amounts because

it's 'proprietary'

> > >

> > > Yohimbe

> > > Guarana

> > > Long Jack (Tongkat Ali)

> > > Horny Goat Weed

> > > Tribulus Terrestris

> > > Korean Ginseng

> > > Maca

> > >

> >

>

> No this is not an advertisement. I have had good doctors see me even Dr

Crisler, but for some reason I never did well on TRT. I haven't ruled out the

possibility for the future but that remains to be seen.

>

> However, to the problem here...why do I get atrophy feeling balls taking this

stuff? It's supposed to push my testis to make more T not to be a substitute as

when you use T cream or injections. I just don't understand why they get achy.

>

> Vaiisking

>

February 1, 2010

V-

Can you fill me in a little more on your history? I am very much interested

since you have been to me, and want to review your case.

Be well!

Regards,

Crisler, DO

Anti-Aging Medicine

The information contained in this message is intended only for the personal

and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, and is protected by

state and federal law. If the reader of this message is not the intended

recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the

intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this

document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or

copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this

communication in error, please notify us immediately, and delete the

original message. We would certainly do the same for you.

February 1, 2010

Thank you Vaiisking I am just giving back what his site did for me.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: vaiisking1026 <vaiisking@...>

> Subject: OK Friends I need your expert opinions on Natural

Testosterone Booster

>

> Date: Sunday, January 31, 2010, 7:41 PM

>

> Guys,

>

> I haven't been here in a while because I stopped taking TRT

> due to it never stablizing for me. I did however try several

> 'natural testosterone boosters' and I have a product that I

> like and I believe that it indeed boosts mine if only a

> small percent (which is huge to someone probably secondary

> and putting out like 250mg/dl on average bloodwork) It is

> called Erox, and it makes my voice deeper, less anxiety,

> slight energy increase, wake up with erections....nice

> stuff. But a side effect that I notice after taking it for

> appx 2 weeks is that my testicles start to have a dull ache.

> Those of you whom have started TRT know this feeling...the

> feeling of your balls before they start to atrophy. I stop

> the product for like a week, feel like crap and can't wait

> to go back on it. I don't understand why it does this when

> the premise is that it forces my lazy ass balls to put out a

> little more from the Long Jack. Here are the ingredients but

> I don't know the amounts because it's 'proprietary'

>

> Yohimbe

> Guarana

> Long Jack (Tongkat Ali)

> Horny Goat Weed

> Tribulus Terrestris

> Korean Ginseng

> Maca

>

> Any advice will help!

>

> P.S. Phil you rock man. It makes me smile to see you here 4

> years since I left and still helping people...you are

> an angel in disguise

>

> Vaiisking

>

> ------------------------------------

>

February 1, 2010

If you did labs and know your Estradiol levels are high and your Testosterone

levels are low. You can redo your labs to see if all this works. If your

Estradiol levels are high and your taking Indolplex/DIM it will get your

Estraidol levels down and this can bring up your Testosterone levels come 200 to

300 points. But if you did not do labs your wasting your time. The things your

trying never did a thing for me it was a waste of my time and money. Seeing a

good Dr. and doing labs tells you whats wrong then go from there.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Dale <dale@...>

> Subject: Re: OK Friends I need your expert opinions on Natural

Testosterone Booster

>

> Date: Sunday, January 31, 2010, 11:34 PM

> I have suffered from ED for about 5

> years. I am now 60.

> I have done OK with the ED drugs but lately my libido has

> started to

> slip and the ED drugs, viagra et al, don't work as well.

>

> In my search for solutions over the past 5 years I have

> tried these three separately.

>

> Tongkat Ali

> Ginseng

> Maca

>

> Genseng I have found to be totally useless.

>

> Maca - works a little bit. You can feel it in your

> genitals.

> at least it's better than

> Genseng. I took large doses of

> the actual extract for many

> months. I think its too tame

> for the requirements of

> most people in this group.

>

> Tongkat Ali.- This is an important herb. It's like maca on

> steroids.

> Beware of where you source this

> stuff. Tongkat Ali comes from the root of a small tree in

> Indonesia/Malaysia. To get the active ingredient out

> of it the root must be boiled to make a tea and then the

> water taken out to leave an extract. Standard extract

> is 1:50. which means 50 grams of root made into an extract.

> A lot of the stuff that is sold on the internet is ground

> up root powder, which is useless, or it is a 1:5 extract

> which is too weak.

> I use the 1:200 extract (the strongest). It is

> expensive. I have used it for about 4 months now and I

> am getting to know the product

> a lot better. Tongkat Ali will help a bit with

> erections but it primarily raises libido. I personally

> need to use ED meds with it to have sex but I don't need as

> much. While ed meds enable you to have sex, Tongkat Ali

> makes you want sex and helps you to enjoy sex due to

> increased sensitivity and higher libido.

> Side effect are almost insignificant, but if you take a

> lot, it can make you aggressive and causes a dull

> headache. I believe it raises testosterone levels but

> I haven't had a lab report since I went on it so I don't

> have proof.

>

> Right now I am doing a little experiment. My theory

> is that my body is converting too much testosterone to

> estrogen so I have added DIM to the Tongkat Ali. I

> will respond to the group in a month or so about how this

> works out. From what I have read here about the ratio

> of T and E2 I think my problem are typical of men my age I

> may have a good chance for success.

>

> In any case, I think that taking some concoction of various

> herbs makes it very difficult to figure anything out.

> Its difficult enough to figure out what just one herb is

> doing let alone 5 or six mixed together. I believe that some

> herbs work but there is a lot of snake oil out there.

> Check your sources.

>

> I have learned a lot from this group. I think the

> most valuable advice I have learned is to find the right

> doctor. Something I still need to do.

>

> >

> > Guys,

> >

> > I haven't been here in a while because I stopped

> taking TRT due to it never stablizing for me. I did however

> try several 'natural testosterone boosters' and I have a

> product that I like and I believe that it indeed boosts mine

> if only a small percent (which is huge to someone probably

> secondary and putting out like 250mg/dl on average

> bloodwork) It is called Erox, and it makes my voice deeper,

> less anxiety, slight energy increase, wake up with

> erections....nice stuff. But a side effect that I notice

> after taking it for appx 2 weeks is that my testicles start

> to have a dull ache. Those of you whom have started TRT know

> this feeling...the feeling of your balls before they start

> to atrophy. I stop the product for like a week, feel like

> crap and can't wait to go back on it. I don't understand why

> it does this when the premise is that it forces my lazy ass

> balls to put out a little more from the Long Jack. Here are

> the ingredients but I don't know the amounts because it's

> 'proprietary'

> >

> > Yohimbe

> > Guarana

> > Long Jack (Tongkat Ali)

> > Horny Goat Weed

> > Tribulus Terrestris

> > Korean Ginseng

> > Maca

> >

> > Any advice will help!

> >

> > P.S. Phil you rock man. It makes me smile to see you

> here 4 years since I left and still helping

> people...you are an angel in disguise

> >

> > Vaiisking

> >

>

> ------------------------------------

>

February 1, 2010

Hey Vaiisking

Personally, the herbal products did nothing for me. I would caution you on the

Yohimbe - this can cause trouble with heart rate - acts like a stimulant.

Â

You are kind of shooting in the dark without knowing where you are (i.e.

estradiol level). In my experience, your Testosterone value does not mean crap

if your E2 is too high or too low. The higher your T goes, the higher your E2

goes also. As we age, we have a tendency to convert T to E2 at a higher rate

than when we were young. That's why old men and old women start to look alike.

Â

I would consider T injections (with or without HCG) and arimidex. Lastly an ED

drug is a great confidence builder if you have lost erections in the past or

couldn't get it up. This made me really self conscious and always worry about

not being able to perform.

Â

Good Luck - Arkansas

From: vaiisking1026 <vaiisking@...>

Subject: OK Friends I need your expert opinions on Natural

Testosterone Booster

Date: Sunday, January 31, 2010, 6:41 PM

Â

Guys,

I haven't been here in a while because I stopped taking TRT due to it never

stablizing for me. I did however try several 'natural testosterone boosters' and

I have a product that I like and I believe that it indeed boosts mine if only a

small percent (which is huge to someone probably secondary and putting out like

250mg/dl on average bloodwork) It is called Erox, and it makes my voice deeper,

less anxiety, slight energy increase, wake up with erections... .nice stuff. But

a side effect that I notice after taking it for appx 2 weeks is that my

testicles start to have a dull ache. Those of you whom have started TRT know

this feeling...the feeling of your balls before they start to atrophy. I stop

the product for like a week, feel like crap and can't wait to go back on it. I

don't understand why it does this when the premise is that it forces my lazy ass

balls to put out a little more from the Long Jack. Here are the ingredients but

I don't know the

amounts because it's 'proprietary'

Yohimbe

Guarana

Long Jack (Tongkat Ali)

Horny Goat Weed

Tribulus Terrestris

Korean Ginseng

Maca

Any advice will help!

P.S. Phil you rock man. It makes me smile to see you here 4 years since I left

and still helping people...you are an angel in disguise

Vaiisking

February 1, 2010

>

> V-

>

> Can you fill me in a little more on your history? I am very much interested

> since you have been to me, and want to review your case.

>

> Be well!

>

> Regards,

>

> Crisler, DO

>

> Anti-Aging Medicine

>

> The information contained in this message is intended only for the personal

> and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, and is protected by

> state and federal law. If the reader of this message is not the intended

> recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the

> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this

> document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or

> copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this

> communication in error, please notify us immediately, and delete the

> original message. We would certainly do the same for you.

>

February 1, 2010

Chris-

The door is wide open for you, Bro.

Heck, this Old Dog may have learned a new trick or two in the meantime. LOL

Be well!

Regards,

Crisler, DO

Anti-Aging Medicine

The information contained in this message is intended only for the personal

and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, and is protected by

state and federal law. If the reader of this message is not the intended

recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the

intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this

document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or

copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this

communication in error, please notify us immediately, and delete the

original message. We would certainly do the same for you.

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of vaiisking1026

Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 8:23 PM

Subject: Re: OK Friends I need your expert opinions on

Natural Testosterone Booster

>

> V-

>

> Can you fill me in a little more on your history? I am very much

interested

> since you have been to me, and want to review your case.

>

> Be well!

>

> Regards,

>

> Crisler, DO

>

> Anti-Aging Medicine

>

> The information contained in this message is intended only for the

personal

> and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, and is protected by

> state and federal law. If the reader of this message is not the intended

> recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the

> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this

> document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or

> copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this

> communication in error, please notify us immediately, and delete the

> original message. We would certainly do the same for you.

>

February 2, 2010

One I recommend is maca gold.

> >

> ...Erox... Here are the ingredients but I don't know the amounts because it's

'proprietary'

> >

> > Yohimbe

> > Guarana

> > Long Jack (Tongkat Ali)

> > Horny Goat Weed

> > Tribulus Terrestris

> > Korean Ginseng

> > Maca

> >

>

February 2, 2010

I am currently working with several guys with this approach and feed back has

been very positive. I really examine there eating pattern, lifestyles,

adrenal/thyroid imbalances, nutrient ratios, history of when this occured and

any other factors that could be affecting level. Some test booster can actually

lower testostrone in the long haul so be carefull which ones you select. Some

can be placebo affects as well.