Guest guest Posted May 26, 2010 Report Share Posted May 26, 2010 I am following a very similar routine as your husband.Have reduced my test to about 45mg every 3 1/2 days and 250units of HCG the day before my next shot.I see no need to have blood work done.I can tell if I am fine tuned by my erections and my sexual performance.I was doing around 80mg test before adding HCG.My testicles are back to normal size but scrotum is tighter. > > Has anyone experimented with increasing their HCG and lowering their Testosterone. > > My husband just started HCG even though Dr. M doesn't think it is necessary...he thinks it is purely cosmetic....but he is a good doctor and will let you try what you think is best. As with most of you we think it will help level out the peaks and valleys.... > > So he has started with a shot of 100 on the day before his shot, he does them every three days... > > How do you know if you are taking enough and how will he know if it is too much....what are the symptoms if any? > > He is very sensitive to E2...he started out too high on the Testosterone and has come way way down to smooth out the peaks and handle the E2...even though his E2 tends to run low he is using the morning wood and his mood as a gauge for what is right for him... > > And yes I have to say I find it extremely amusing having regular conversations with my husband regarding his morning " wood " . > Over breakfast one of us will casually mention the lastest status of his " morning wood " especially if we are discussino some new symptoms about his health....we are both engineers so we tend to analyse everything...lol... but the truth is it is the best way to analyze the balance of the bodies E2.... > > When other men ask my husband about TRT because they are curious he will immediately tell them the best test. He then directly asks them if they still get morning wood....oh to be a fly on the wall at the reactions he gets ....some men are very sensitive and others can get very uncomfortable...not my husband he is so straight forward... > > But then he loves getting his morning wood again... > > Judy > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2010 Report Share Posted May 26, 2010 Women face to face will take about female problems and sex like it's nothing. Men on the other had face to face will not talk about it they will lie because to men having ED is not being a man. He can do up to 500 IU's of HCG a day but the problme is knowing if his testis can handle it if not it will convert into Estradiol. I do 250 IU's the day before my next shot I do my shots every 3 days. I was doing 400 IU's for a long time but even before going on HGH my Estradiol went nuts so this I feel is telling me it was to much. Dr. M knows all about men doing HCG he was at MESO when Dr. ran that Forum aka SWALE. So I don't know why he would say this. Men on TRT there brain stops sending the LH and FSH message to the testis and they stop working also the LH cells in his body and brain will stop working read this what Dr. told me to help get my Dr. to let me use HCG. ==================================================== Dr. ’s post to me to help get my Dr. to let me try HCG. He probably feels that since you suffer primary hypogonadism (I am guessing) there is no use in adding HCG to your protocol. There are several reasons why this is not so. First, you have not lost all Leydig cells, so any HCG you take will stimulate those who still function to produce endogenous testosterone. This will support testicular size. We should not ignore this aesthetic consideration. Next, if he reads my work, he will learn that HPTA-suppressed (as all TRT patients are to some extent) also suffer decreased pregenenolone levels, which is the first step after CHOL in all three hormonal pathways which begin with CHOL. HCG increases pregnenolone production, and therefore restores a more natural balance of our hormones. Next, nearly all TRT patients who add in HCG to their regimens report an increased sense of well-being and also libido. These are genuine quality of life issues. Finally, I just instinctively do not want all those LH receptors (including those we have yet to discover and appreciate) unstimulated. ==================================================== For most men it is best to do less for the best most men over do there TRT and end up with big Estradiol problems one of Dr. 's mods put this out about keeping in the sweet spot. Lowing my HCG from 400 IU's the 2 days each in between my T shot that I do every 3 days my levels never changed but my Estradiol is better. =================================================== E2 Sweet Spot by Chilln at Dr. ’s forum. continued from post #8 in this thread, ie: http://musclechatroom.com/forum/show...14 & postcount=8 PLAN A: The healthiest method of optimizing E2 levels is to simply minimize your T boost, to the point which is " just above " your minimum acceptable level of damage tolerance. ### * If you exercise very hard, you're going to need a lot more T than if you exercise very little. * Reducing your T boosters will reduce both your maximum T levels, and your minimum T levels. This works if you metabolize T relatively slowly, in which case your minimum T levels will not be too low. * But if you metabolize T very quickly, then you may find that this method lets your minimum T levels drop too low. * As you and your medical professional adviser gradually lower your maximum T levels, your E2 levels will also reduce, and hopefully you will find a balance between T and E2 which suits your sexual performance goals. * If you discover that by using this method, you can occasionally experience optimum sexual performance, then your ability to maintain that for extended periods is dependant on how stable your E2 levels are, and the stability of your E2 levels depends on minimizing your maximum T levels, and ensuring your minimum T levels are still adequate (no sore joints, no sore back, no stiff neck, don't catch flu quickly). * Keep gradually reducing your maximum T levels, looking for your E2 sweet spot, until eventually your minimum T levels are too low during the day / week (ie: sore joints, or sore back, or you catch a flu quickly). ### If you haven't experienced a sweet spot for your E2 usign this method, then you need to consider PLAN B. PLAN B: Always attempt PLAN B if PLAN A fails to deliver the goods. Don't skip PLAN B. For those who supplement using transdermal T, reduce your maximum daily T levels by taking less-than-half-of-your-existing-daily-dosage-of-T, twice per day. For those who supplement using injected T ester (eg: T cypionate), reduce your maximum weekly T levels by either: a) taking less-than-half-of-your-existing-weekly-dosage-of-T, twice-per-week, or taking less-than-3/7-of-your-existing-weekly-dosage-of-T, once-every-3-days. ### * This will definitely reduce your peak T levels, while still ensuring that your minimum T levels do not drop. * The additional reduction in max T levels, without reducing your minimum T levels, will further allow your E2 levels to reduce, and hopefully that's enough to find your E2 sweet spot. * The equivalent mechanism for those who supplement using injected T esters (eg: testosterone cypionate) is to take less-than-half-of-your-existing-weekly-dosage-of-T, twice per week, or less-than-3/7-of-your-existing-weekly-dosage-of-T, every 3 days. * As you and your medical professional adviser gradually lower your maximum T levels, your E2 levels will also reduce, and hopefully you will find a balance between T and E2 which suits your sexual performance goals. * If you discover that by using this method, you can occasionally experience optimum sexual performance, then your ability to maintain that for extended periods is dependant on how stable your E2 levels are, and the stability of your E2 levels depends on your maximum T levels (not your minimum T levels). ### But you may discover that you still cannot find a sweet spot for both T and E2 using just this method. In which case consider PLAN C. PLAN C: ( OPTIONAL) This option is only available if you initially started out on a transdermal formulation of T. Switch from using a transdermal formulation of T to using an injected form of T ester - eg: " T cyp " (testosterone cypionate). Initially try once-per-week dosing, but switch to twice-per-week, or once-every-3-days dosing if you need to lower E2 levels even further. ### * Our body makes E2 out of T, using the " aromatase " enzyme, and we have high concentrations of aromatase enzymes in our subcutaneous body fat. * The transdermal forumations of T convert into more E2 and DHT than the injected T esters, because the transdermal formulations place the T in close proximity to the large concentration of aromatase enzymes in our body fat, while the injected T esters are designed for intra-muscular injection (not subcutanoues) and therefore the T is placed a long long way from those aromate enzymes in our body fat. * After switching from transdermal T to injected T esters, your E2 levels should also reduce, and hopefully you will find a balance between T and E2 which suits your sexual performance goals, but the stability of your E2 levels still depends on your maximum T levels (not your minimum T levels). * Initially try once-per-week dosing as discussed in PLAN B for T cyp users. * If using once-per-week dosing continues to result in too high maximum levels of T, while you are trying to ensure that your minimum T throughout the week is still above your minimum requirements for T, then you will need to add back the PLAN B multiple-times-per-week dosing - even for T cyp. ### But you may discover that you still cannot find a sweet spot for both T and E2 using just this method. In which case consider PLAN D. PLAN D: This alternative is to adjust both your T and HCG dosages, and use arimidex / anastrozole to optimize E2. But you should still be implementing the multiple-times-per-day dosing methodology from PLAN B and the final stage of PLAN C ### * This is not a trivial concept. You will be messing with T and E2 levels for months. * The most important concept with arimidex / anastrozole supplementtion is very reliable and accurate dosing. I very strongly recommend that you and your medical professional adviser adopt a more frequent dosing of arimidex / anastrozole than once-every-two-days, ie: by adopting daily dosing of arimidex / anastrozole, using small-but-reliable doses of compounded arimidex / anastrozole. ....This is detailed here: ....http://musclechatroom.com/forum/show...6 & postcount=31 * You may find that you need 0.1mg per day, or 0.15mg per day, or 0.2mg per day, instead of 0.5mg every second day. * After adjusting arimidex dosages and T dosages, you will definitely discover occasional optimum T versus E2 balance, and with that you will achieve occasional optimum sexual performance. Whether you can maintain that optimum sexual performance for the majority of each week is dependant on how stable your E2 levels are, and the stability of your E2 levels depends on your maximum T levels. ### But you may discover that you still cannot find a sweet spot for both T and E2 using just this method. In which case consider PLAN E. PLAN E: Boost T even less than before, and boost GH to provide the additional damage tolerance lost from the reduction in T levels. But continue to maintain using the multiple-times-per-day dosing methodology used in the final stages of the previous plans. But back off the arimidex / anastrozole completely. ### * Both T and GH trigger many of the same repairs (not 100% overlap) so you can safely reduce T, if you boost GH. * By further reducing your peak T levels, you further reduce the rate of conversion of T into E2. This assumes you reduce your supplemental T dosage when you add in the boost to GH. * By further reducing your peak T levels, your T and E2 levels will be more stable, and you'll find it easier to find your sweet spot for E2. But you may discover that you still cannot find a sweet spot for both T and E2 using just this method. In which case consider PLAN F. PLAN F This is simply the combination of PLAN E (GH boost, multiple times-per-day/week dosing) plus compounded arimidex / anastrozole. ### * This should only be necessary if: ....a) you haven't been able to afford sufficient recombinant GH to allow you to reduce your T levels by an adequate amount. or .... your can only afford GHRP-6, not recombinant GH, and your body's response to the GHRP-6 is inadequate amounts of GH. .. ________________________________________ Last edited by chilln; 16 Hours Ago at 07:12 PM. ==================================================== Co-Moderator Phil > From: zashes11 <jharvey@...> > Subject: Testosterone and HCG > > Date: Tuesday, May 25, 2010, 2:44 PM > Has anyone experimented with > increasing their HCG and lowering their Testosterone. > > My husband just started HCG even though Dr. M doesn't think > it is necessary...he thinks it is purely cosmetic....but he > is a good doctor and will let you try what you think is > best. As with most of you we think it will help level out > the peaks and valleys.... > > So he has started with a shot of 100 on the day before his > shot, he does them every three days... > > How do you know if you are taking enough and how will he > know if it is too much....what are the symptoms if any? > > He is very sensitive to E2...he started out too high > on the Testosterone and has come way way down to smooth out > the peaks and handle the E2...even though his E2 tends > to run low he is using the morning wood and his mood as a > gauge for what is right for him... > > And yes I have to say I find it extremely amusing having > regular conversations with my husband regarding his morning > " wood " . > Over breakfast one of us will casually mention the lastest > status of his " morning wood " especially if we are discussino > some new symptoms about his health....we are both engineers > so we tend to analyse everything...lol... but the truth is > it is the best way to analyze the balance of the bodies > E2.... > > When other men ask my husband about TRT because they are > curious he will immediately tell them the best test. He then > directly asks them if they still get morning wood....oh to > be a fly on the wall at the reactions he gets ....some men > are very sensitive and others can get very > uncomfortable...not my husband he is so straight forward... > > But then he loves getting his morning wood again... > > Judy > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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