Re: Help with dh labs please

[Guest guest]

His Total and Free Testosterone levels are very low and for me this was the

cause of a lot of my pain and fatigue. I think every men going on TRT should

start with gels but test in 2 weeks to be sure the dose is enough. As for

Estraidol levels going up on TRT this is a given it happens to most of the men

on it. Still getting his Testosterone levels up he will have more energy and

have less pain.

You need Testosterone to support a mans muscles and joints.

I feel it's a small price to pay to have to treat high levels of Estraidol and

feel better on TRT. If the Dr. will give him gels have him give him some

Arimidex cut the small 1 mg pill into 4 parts and when his levels start going up

drop the DIM and try the Arimidex taking .25 mgs every 3 days.

As for coming off Effexor get his T levels up first then come off the Effexor

and do this very slow over a long time. Effexor can be very hard to come off

and if he comes off it to fast the with draw is very bad.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: mbmom123 <lathe30248@...>

> Subject: Help with dh labs please

>

> Date: Sunday, October 31, 2010, 9:08 AM

> Trying to help him get *motivated* to

> self help low T (successful getting him on thyroid and off

> Effexor)but not on a plane to DR C:

>

> Oct 2010 --LabCorp--on 2 gr ERFA and DIM--no other

> hormones:lots of lower to mid back pain, can't stay awake

> after dinner, no exercise and usual motivation factors, no

> sex >5 years etc

>

> TSH   1.87 (.45-4.5)

> Free T3  3.0 (2.0-4.4)

> Free T4   0.99 (.82-1.77)

> E2 Q4021 sensitive  24.6 (6.42.5)

> LH 5.4 (1.7-8.6)

> FSH 7.8 (1.5-12.4)

> Prolactin 7.5 (4.0-15.7)

> Testosterone serum  243 (280-800)

> Free Testosterone direct  5.6 (7.2-24.0)

>

> Of concern: liver values went up in two weeks time from in

> range(ast/alt 28/39 to 42/91) over range from first

> testing...only thing new was *new blood pressure drug* due

> to (IMO) obvious low T issues...and cholesterol issues..

>

> Our family doc willing and open to testing, however how can

> I help him get over this last hurdle of getting expert

> hormone help w/ T? We tried BodyLogic..he was never even

> suggested to supplement T (!!!) with them and that put us

> both over the edge...

>

> He can get gels from uro or family doc, is this best way to

> go and get testing done correctly this time (I now know from

> the group his E2 went high on gels/ high dose shots before

> and he was never retested properly and raised

> accordingly...and do other stuff as needed on own? I have

> concerns about availability of mail order in future as I

> have already heard rumblings about requirements in 2011 to

> have all scripts faxed from a doctor to pharmacy directly..

>

> For comparison, last labs NOV 2008 on same thyroid

> meds:Quest Labs

>

> TSH  3.15 (.45-4.5)

> Free T3 not done by this doc

> Free T4 1.5  (0.8-1.8)

> T4 total  5.4 (ranges on copy fuzzy)

> T3 total  96 (97-219)

> E2 ultrasensitive  27  (<29)

> LH  3.9 (1.5-9.3)

> Prolactin  5.4 (2.0-18.0)

> Testosterone free 29.4 (range on copy fuzzy)

> Testosterone bioavailable  82.8 (110-473)

> Testosterone total 270 (280-1100)

> DHEA-s  84 (25-240)

> SHBG 23  (18-47)

>

> Thanks so much everyone for logical, clear next steps! EL

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi El!

I just made another post about thyroid ranges, which when applied to your DH's

labs, show he could raise his dose. Dr. no recommends, and my discussion

with Quest Labs confirms, the following optimal thyroid ranges, which are all

mid-range or higher.

FT4 1.2-1.4

Total T4 8-12

FT3 340-420

Total T3 130+

The back pain and fatigue could all be low thyroid/poor adrenals. Has cortisol

ever been measured? Sluggish liver, high BP, and high cholesterol are also low

thyroid symptoms. SHBG is affected by thyroid levels and should be between

30-40, also confirming he could use a raise in dose. Estrogen processing is

also done in the liver, so just getting thyroid optimal before starting T should

help there. He will be able to use a lower dose and get better mileage on it if

his thyroid is optimized first.

And yes, I also have my concerns about access to Erfa long-term. There are

rumblings of natural disasters/economic issues that may arise very soon that may

cut off my supply. That said, I found it interesting that Dr. no said he

had patients successfully using T4 drugs. People who need extra T3 or

desiccated are usually lacking something that hinders conversion. So if you can

find and fix that, T4 drugs could work. My DH and I are currently combining

Erfa with T4. Dr, D Kharrazian says that good gut health is essential to good

thyroid function and that 20% of conversion is done in the gut. I have only

recently started some of his suggestions like taking a good probiotic

(Jarrow-dophilus), and already feel hot, and have lowered my Erfa and raised my

T4.

Barb

>

> Trying to help him get *motivated* to self help low T (successful getting him

on thyroid and off Effexor)but not on a plane to DR C:

>

> Oct 2010 --LabCorp--on 2 gr ERFA and DIM--no other hormones:lots of lower to

mid back pain, can't stay awake after dinner, no exercise and usual motivation

factors, no sex >5 years etc

>

> TSH 1.87 (.45-4.5)

> Free T3 3.0 (2.0-4.4)

> Free T4 0.99 (.82-1.77)

> E2 Q4021 sensitive 24.6 (6.42.5)

> LH 5.4 (1.7-8.6)

> FSH 7.8 (1.5-12.4)

> Prolactin 7.5 (4.0-15.7)

> Testosterone serum 243 (280-800)

> Free Testosterone direct 5.6 (7.2-24.0)

>

> Of concern: liver values went up in two weeks time from in range(ast/alt 28/39

to 42/91) over range from first testing...only thing new was *new blood pressure

drug* due to (IMO) obvious low T issues...and cholesterol issues..

>

> Our family doc willing and open to testing, however how can I help him get

over this last hurdle of getting expert hormone help w/ T? We tried

BodyLogic..he was never even suggested to supplement T (!!!) with them and that

put us both over the edge...

>

> He can get gels from uro or family doc, is this best way to go and get testing

done correctly this time (I now know from the group his E2 went high on gels/

high dose shots before and he was never retested properly and raised

accordingly...and do other stuff as needed on own? I have concerns about

availability of mail order in future as I have already heard rumblings about

requirements in 2011 to have all scripts faxed from a doctor to pharmacy

directly..

>

> For comparison, last labs NOV 2008 on same thyroid meds:Quest Labs

>

> TSH 3.15 (.45-4.5)

> Free T3 not done by this doc

> Free T4 1.5 (0.8-1.8)

> T4 total 5.4 (ranges on copy fuzzy)

> T3 total 96 (97-219)

> E2 ultrasensitive 27 (<29)

> LH 3.9 (1.5-9.3)

> Prolactin 5.4 (2.0-18.0)

> Testosterone free 29.4 (range on copy fuzzy)

> Testosterone bioavailable 82.8 (110-473)

> Testosterone total 270 (280-1100)

> DHEA-s 84 (25-240)

> SHBG 23 (18-47)

>

> Thanks so much everyone for logical, clear next steps! EL

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Phil! I may have to order Arimidex as no doctors around here that I am

aware of will treat this way...thanks for your counsel.

I have almost completely weaned him (very slowly) off Effexor with help I got

from www.theroadback.org when I was getting off---lots of fish oil / Vit E and

Montmorency sour cherry...he is fortunate to not have the horrible side effects

I did...shame we were both treated with this instead of proper thyroid hormones!

EL

>

> > From: mbmom123 <lathe30248@...>

> > Subject: Help with dh labs please

> >

> > Date: Sunday, October 31, 2010, 9:08 AM

> > Trying to help him get *motivated* to

> > self help low T (successful getting him on thyroid and off

> > Effexor)but not on a plane to DR C:

> >

> > Oct 2010 --LabCorp--on 2 gr ERFA and DIM--no other

> > hormones:lots of lower to mid back pain, can't stay awake

> > after dinner, no exercise and usual motivation factors, no

> > sex >5 years etc

> >

> > TSH   1.87 (.45-4.5)

> > Free T3  3.0 (2.0-4.4)

> > Free T4   0.99 (.82-1.77)

> > E2 Q4021 sensitive  24.6 (6.42.5)

> > LH 5.4 (1.7-8.6)

> > FSH 7.8 (1.5-12.4)

> > Prolactin 7.5 (4.0-15.7)

> > Testosterone serum  243 (280-800)

> > Free Testosterone direct  5.6 (7.2-24.0)

> >

> > Of concern: liver values went up in two weeks time from in

> > range(ast/alt 28/39 to 42/91) over range from first

> > testing...only thing new was *new blood pressure drug* due

> > to (IMO) obvious low T issues...and cholesterol issues..

> >

> > Our family doc willing and open to testing, however how can

> > I help him get over this last hurdle of getting expert

> > hormone help w/ T? We tried BodyLogic..he was never even

> > suggested to supplement T (!!!) with them and that put us

> > both over the edge...

> >

> > He can get gels from uro or family doc, is this best way to

> > go and get testing done correctly this time (I now know from

> > the group his E2 went high on gels/ high dose shots before

> > and he was never retested properly and raised

> > accordingly...and do other stuff as needed on own? I have

> > concerns about availability of mail order in future as I

> > have already heard rumblings about requirements in 2011 to

> > have all scripts faxed from a doctor to pharmacy directly..

> >

> > For comparison, last labs NOV 2008 on same thyroid

> > meds:Quest Labs

> >

> > TSH  3.15 (.45-4.5)

> > Free T3 not done by this doc

> > Free T4 1.5  (0.8-1.8)

> > T4 total  5.4 (ranges on copy fuzzy)

> > T3 total  96 (97-219)

> > E2 ultrasensitive  27  (<29)

> > LH  3.9 (1.5-9.3)

> > Prolactin  5.4 (2.0-18.0)

> > Testosterone free 29.4 (range on copy fuzzy)

> > Testosterone bioavailable  82.8 (110-473)

> > Testosterone total 270 (280-1100)

> > DHEA-s  84 (25-240)

> > SHBG 23  (18-47)

> >

> > Thanks so much everyone for logical, clear next steps! EL

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Thanks Barb, interesting info--we all know the lab values are determined by the

absolute lows and highs ever experienced by even one person being tested

(moronic eh?)...the same way allergists freely hand out Prednisone, but doctors

don't *believe in* adrenal malfunction <<LOL!>> needing Cortef...amazing indeed

Interesting about T4...I was treated with T4 only for over 25 years bringing my

health in jeopardy, so I have a healthy distrust of it in general ---and we

both do probiotics, just not every day...and are working to clean up diet

diligently..

Thanks to both you and Phil for the info!

His saliva cortisol trends low in am, low between 12-3P and then a bit lower in

evening..no sleep issue, quite the opposite...I am hesitant to move up thyroid

dose too much more..which may aggravate the adrenals (I don't want him on HC if

we can avoid, having just weaned after two years on it for myself)..and he is

reporting *no black clouds*, no *anxiety/anger* --but the underlying as you

point out, health issues are probably low Testosterone related...here I believe

his uro/family doc will give him gels and maybe I can talk Uro into Arimidex or

get on my own, concerned about then potential need for hcg...and then

potentially having rug pulled out from under in obtaining same---your

thoughts/experience? Are T and Arimidex *enough*?

EL

> >

> > Trying to help him get *motivated* to self help low T (successful getting

him on thyroid and off Effexor)but not on a plane to DR C:

> >

> > Oct 2010 --LabCorp--on 2 gr ERFA and DIM--no other hormones:lots of lower to

mid back pain, can't stay awake after dinner, no exercise and usual motivation

factors, no sex >5 years etc

> >

> > TSH 1.87 (.45-4.5)

> > Free T3 3.0 (2.0-4.4)

> > Free T4 0.99 (.82-1.77)

> > E2 Q4021 sensitive 24.6 (6.42.5)

> > LH 5.4 (1.7-8.6)

> > FSH 7.8 (1.5-12.4)

> > Prolactin 7.5 (4.0-15.7)

> > Testosterone serum 243 (280-800)

> > Free Testosterone direct 5.6 (7.2-24.0)

> >

> > Of concern: liver values went up in two weeks time from in range(ast/alt

28/39 to 42/91) over range from first testing...only thing new was *new blood

pressure drug* due to (IMO) obvious low T issues...and cholesterol issues..

> >

> > Our family doc willing and open to testing, however how can I help him get

over this last hurdle of getting expert hormone help w/ T? We tried

BodyLogic..he was never even suggested to supplement T (!!!) with them and that

put us both over the edge...

> >

> > He can get gels from uro or family doc, is this best way to go and get

testing done correctly this time (I now know from the group his E2 went high on

gels/ high dose shots before and he was never retested properly and raised

accordingly...and do other stuff as needed on own? I have concerns about

availability of mail order in future as I have already heard rumblings about

requirements in 2011 to have all scripts faxed from a doctor to pharmacy

directly..

> >

> > For comparison, last labs NOV 2008 on same thyroid meds:Quest Labs

> >

> > TSH 3.15 (.45-4.5)

> > Free T3 not done by this doc

> > Free T4 1.5 (0.8-1.8)

> > T4 total 5.4 (ranges on copy fuzzy)

> > T3 total 96 (97-219)

> > E2 ultrasensitive 27 (<29)

> > LH 3.9 (1.5-9.3)

> > Prolactin 5.4 (2.0-18.0)

> > Testosterone free 29.4 (range on copy fuzzy)

> > Testosterone bioavailable 82.8 (110-473)

> > Testosterone total 270 (280-1100)

> > DHEA-s 84 (25-240)

> > SHBG 23 (18-47)

> >

> > Thanks so much everyone for logical, clear next steps! EL

> >

>

[Guest guest]

When you say his cortisol is low, do you mean below range? When I raised DH's

thyroid, I raised him 1/8 grain at a time, and held for 8 days, then went to the

full 1/4 grain, and held for 6 weeks.

DH is not on HCG or Arimidex, just TC, though I know many here are. There are

pros and cons to everything and that will have to be your decision. It is

becoming increasingly difficult to even get regular Testosterone and desiccated

thyroid, so really makes me wonder what would happen with a supply disruption.

Barb

" mbmom123 " <lathe30248@...> wrote:

> His saliva cortisol trends low in am, low between 12-3P and then a bit lower

in evening..no sleep issue, quite the opposite...I am hesitant to move up

thyroid dose too much more..which may aggravate the adrenals (I don't want him

on HC if we can avoid, having just weaned after two years on it for myself)..and

he is reporting *no black clouds*, no *anxiety/anger* --but the underlying as

you point out, health issues are probably low Testosterone related...here I

believe his uro/family doc will give him gels and maybe I can talk Uro into

Arimidex or get on my own, concerned about then potential need for hcg...and

then potentially having rug pulled out from under in obtaining same---your

thoughts/experience? Are T and Arimidex *enough*?

>

> EL

>

>

> > >

> > > Trying to help him get *motivated* to self help low T (successful getting

him on thyroid and off Effexor)but not on a plane to DR C:

> > >

> > > Oct 2010 --LabCorp--on 2 gr ERFA and DIM--no other hormones:lots of lower

to mid back pain, can't stay awake after dinner, no exercise and usual

motivation factors, no sex >5 years etc

> > >

> > > TSH 1.87 (.45-4.5)

> > > Free T3 3.0 (2.0-4.4)

> > > Free T4 0.99 (.82-1.77)

> > > E2 Q4021 sensitive 24.6 (6.42.5)

> > > LH 5.4 (1.7-8.6)

> > > FSH 7.8 (1.5-12.4)

> > > Prolactin 7.5 (4.0-15.7)

> > > Testosterone serum 243 (280-800)

> > > Free Testosterone direct 5.6 (7.2-24.0)

> > >

> > > Of concern: liver values went up in two weeks time from in range(ast/alt

28/39 to 42/91) over range from first testing...only thing new was *new blood

pressure drug* due to (IMO) obvious low T issues...and cholesterol issues..

> > >

> > > Our family doc willing and open to testing, however how can I help him get

over this last hurdle of getting expert hormone help w/ T? We tried

BodyLogic..he was never even suggested to supplement T (!!!) with them and that

put us both over the edge...

> > >

> > > He can get gels from uro or family doc, is this best way to go and get

testing done correctly this time (I now know from the group his E2 went high on

gels/ high dose shots before and he was never retested properly and raised

accordingly...and do other stuff as needed on own? I have concerns about

availability of mail order in future as I have already heard rumblings about

requirements in 2011 to have all scripts faxed from a doctor to pharmacy

directly..

> > >

> > > For comparison, last labs NOV 2008 on same thyroid meds:Quest Labs

> > >

> > > TSH 3.15 (.45-4.5)

> > > Free T3 not done by this doc

> > > Free T4 1.5 (0.8-1.8)

> > > T4 total 5.4 (ranges on copy fuzzy)

> > > T3 total 96 (97-219)

> > > E2 ultrasensitive 27 (<29)

> > > LH 3.9 (1.5-9.3)

> > > Prolactin 5.4 (2.0-18.0)

> > > Testosterone free 29.4 (range on copy fuzzy)

> > > Testosterone bioavailable 82.8 (110-473)

> > > Testosterone total 270 (280-1100)

> > > DHEA-s 84 (25-240)

> > > SHBG 23 (18-47)

> > >

> > > Thanks so much everyone for logical, clear next steps! EL

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Well he is lucky I was on so many diff. AD drugs I have to go in to a Hosp. to

get off them the dam Dr.'s had me on 3 diff. kinds of Drugs for Depression when

none would work they started adding them together I was a dam mess.

And when I found out all them problems were from low Testosterone It was hell

coming off them meds.

And my labs for hormones were all in the low range and Dr.'s even knowing I had

Low Testosterone levels they all told me my Cortisol and Thyroid levels were

fine I am in the normal range.

Knowing what I know today they were all full of it.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: mbmom123 <lathe30248@...>

> Subject: Re: Help with dh labs please

>

> Date: Sunday, October 31, 2010, 12:15 PM

> Thanks Phil! I may have to order

> Arimidex as no doctors around here that I am aware of will

> treat this way...thanks for your counsel.

>

> I have almost completely weaned him (very slowly) off

> Effexor with help I got from www.theroadback.org when I was

> getting off---lots of fish oil / Vit E and Montmorency sour

> cherry...he is fortunate to not have the horrible side

> effects I did...shame we were both treated with this instead

> of proper thyroid hormones! EL

>

>

> >

> > > From: mbmom123 <lathe30248@...>

> > > Subject: Help with dh labs please

> > >

> > > Date: Sunday, October 31, 2010, 9:08 AM

> > > Trying to help him get *motivated* to

> > > self help low T (successful getting him on

> thyroid and off

> > > Effexor)but not on a plane to DR C:

> > >

> > > Oct 2010 --LabCorp--on 2 gr ERFA and DIM--no

> other

> > > hormones:lots of lower to mid back pain, can't

> stay awake

> > > after dinner, no exercise and usual motivation

> factors, no

> > > sex >5 years etc

> > >

> > > TSH   1.87 (.45-4.5)

> > > Free T3  3.0 (2.0-4.4)

> > > Free T4   0.99 (.82-1.77)

> > > E2 Q4021 sensitive  24.6 (6.42.5)

> > > LH 5.4 (1.7-8.6)

> > > FSH 7.8 (1.5-12.4)

> > > Prolactin 7.5 (4.0-15.7)

> > > Testosterone serum  243 (280-800)

> > > Free Testosterone direct  5.6 (7.2-24.0)

> > >

> > > Of concern: liver values went up in two weeks

> time from in

> > > range(ast/alt 28/39 to 42/91) over range from

> first

> > > testing...only thing new was *new blood pressure

> drug* due

> > > to (IMO) obvious low T issues...and cholesterol

> issues..

> > >

> > > Our family doc willing and open to testing,

> however how can

> > > I help him get over this last hurdle of getting

> expert

> > > hormone help w/ T? We tried BodyLogic..he was

> never even

> > > suggested to supplement T (!!!) with them and

> that put us

> > > both over the edge...

> > >

> > > He can get gels from uro or family doc, is this

> best way to

> > > go and get testing done correctly this time (I

> now know from

> > > the group his E2 went high on gels/ high dose

> shots before

> > > and he was never retested properly and raised

> > > accordingly...and do other stuff as needed on

> own? I have

> > > concerns about availability of mail order in

> future as I

> > > have already heard rumblings about requirements

> in 2011 to

> > > have all scripts faxed from a doctor to pharmacy

> directly..

> > >

> > > For comparison, last labs NOV 2008 on same

> thyroid

> > > meds:Quest Labs

> > >

> > > TSH  3.15 (.45-4.5)

> > > Free T3 not done by this doc

> > > Free T4 1.5  (0.8-1.8)

> > > T4 total  5.4 (ranges on copy fuzzy)

> > > T3 total  96 (97-219)

> > > E2 ultrasensitive  27  (<29)

> > > LH  3.9 (1.5-9.3)

> > > Prolactin  5.4 (2.0-18.0)

> > > Testosterone free 29.4 (range on copy fuzzy)

> > > Testosterone bioavailable  82.8 (110-473)

> > > Testosterone total 270 (280-1100)

> > > DHEA-s  84 (25-240)

> > > SHBG 23  (18-47)

> > >

> > > Thanks so much everyone for logical, clear next

> steps! EL

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

EL like Barb says I think back in the day if they would have treated my low

cortisol levels and then Thyroid I would have not had such a hard time with my

health.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: mbmom123 <lathe30248@...>

> Subject: Re: Help with dh labs please

>

> Date: Sunday, October 31, 2010, 12:30 PM

> Thanks Barb, interesting info--we all

> know the lab values are determined by the absolute lows and

> highs ever experienced by even one person being tested

> (moronic eh?)...the same way allergists freely hand out

> Prednisone, but doctors don't *believe in* adrenal

> malfunction <<LOL!>> needing Cortef...amazing

> indeed

>

> Interesting about T4...I was treated with T4 only for over

> 25 years bringing my health in jeopardy, so I have a healthy

> distrust of it in general ---and we both do probiotics,

> just not every day...and are working to clean up diet

> diligently..

>

> Thanks to both you and Phil for the info!

>

> His saliva cortisol trends low in am, low between 12-3P and

> then a bit lower in evening..no sleep issue, quite the

> opposite...I am hesitant to move up thyroid dose too much

> more..which may aggravate the adrenals (I don't want him on

> HC if we can avoid, having just weaned after two years on it

> for myself)..and he is reporting *no black clouds*, no

> *anxiety/anger* --but the underlying as you point out,

> health issues are probably low Testosterone related...here I

> believe his uro/family doc will give him gels and maybe I

> can talk Uro into Arimidex or get on my own, concerned about

> then potential need for hcg...and then potentially having

> rug pulled out from under in obtaining same---your

> thoughts/experience? Are T and Arimidex *enough*?

>

> EL

>

>

> > >

> > > Trying to help him get *motivated* to self help

> low T (successful getting him on thyroid and off Effexor)but

> not on a plane to DR C:

> > >

> > > Oct 2010 --LabCorp--on 2 gr ERFA and DIM--no

> other hormones:lots of lower to mid back pain, can't stay

> awake after dinner, no exercise and usual motivation

> factors, no sex >5 years etc

> > >

> > > TSH   1.87 (.45-4.5)

> > > Free T3  3.0 (2.0-4.4)

> > > Free T4   0.99 (.82-1.77)

> > > E2 Q4021 sensitive  24.6 (6.42.5)

> > > LH 5.4 (1.7-8.6)

> > > FSH 7.8 (1.5-12.4)

> > > Prolactin 7.5 (4.0-15.7)

> > > Testosterone serum  243 (280-800)

> > > Free Testosterone direct  5.6 (7.2-24.0)

> > >

> > > Of concern: liver values went up in two weeks

> time from in range(ast/alt 28/39 to 42/91) over range from

> first testing...only thing new was *new blood pressure drug*

> due to (IMO) obvious low T issues...and cholesterol

> issues..

> > >

> > > Our family doc willing and open to testing,

> however how can I help him get over this last hurdle of

> getting expert hormone help w/ T? We tried BodyLogic..he was

> never even suggested to supplement T (!!!) with them and

> that put us both over the edge...

> > >

> > > He can get gels from uro or family doc, is this

> best way to go and get testing done correctly this time (I

> now know from the group his E2 went high on gels/ high dose

> shots before and he was never retested properly and raised

> accordingly...and do other stuff as needed on own? I have

> concerns about availability of mail order in future as I

> have already heard rumblings about requirements in 2011 to

> have all scripts faxed from a doctor to pharmacy directly..

> > >

> > > For comparison, last labs NOV 2008 on same

> thyroid meds:Quest Labs

> > >

> > > TSH  3.15 (.45-4.5)

> > > Free T3 not done by this doc

> > > Free T4 1.5  (0.8-1.8)

> > > T4 total  5.4 (ranges on copy fuzzy)

> > > T3 total  96 (97-219)

> > > E2 ultrasensitive  27  (<29)

> > > LH  3.9 (1.5-9.3)

> > > Prolactin  5.4 (2.0-18.0)

> > > Testosterone free 29.4 (range on copy fuzzy)

> > > Testosterone bioavailable  82.8 (110-473)

> > > Testosterone total 270 (280-1100)

> > > DHEA-s  84 (25-240)

> > > SHBG 23  (18-47)

> > >

> > > Thanks so much everyone for logical, clear next

> steps! EL

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

I didn't do too well on either TRT or thyroid meds until I started Isocort to

support my adrenals.

Try doing a saliva cortisol test which you can purchase online at

canaryclub.org.

If he has low cortisol, see if your doc will give cortef ~20mg / day. If not,

you can purchase Isocort which is made from sheep adrenals and provides the same

support at 8 pellets / day. That may help make his thyroid meds more active as

well as his natural testosterone. My labs got markedly better since I started

this routine.

JMHO: Please don't take this the wrong way, but the lack of motivation and no

sex for > 5 years (!!!) tells me that perhaps you should broach the idea of

therapy (individual or couple).

Best wishes.

>

> Trying to help him get *motivated* to self help low T (successful getting him

on thyroid and off Effexor)but not on a plane to DR C:

>

> Oct 2010 --LabCorp--on 2 gr ERFA and DIM--no other hormones:lots of lower to

mid back pain, can't stay awake after dinner, no exercise and usual motivation

factors, no sex >5 years etc

>

> TSH 1.87 (.45-4.5)

> Free T3 3.0 (2.0-4.4)

> Free T4 0.99 (.82-1.77)

> E2 Q4021 sensitive 24.6 (6.42.5)

> LH 5.4 (1.7-8.6)

> FSH 7.8 (1.5-12.4)

> Prolactin 7.5 (4.0-15.7)

> Testosterone serum 243 (280-800)

> Free Testosterone direct 5.6 (7.2-24.0)

>

> Of concern: liver values went up in two weeks time from in range(ast/alt 28/39

to 42/91) over range from first testing...only thing new was *new blood pressure

drug* due to (IMO) obvious low T issues...and cholesterol issues..

>

> Our family doc willing and open to testing, however how can I help him get

over this last hurdle of getting expert hormone help w/ T? We tried

BodyLogic..he was never even suggested to supplement T (!!!) with them and that

put us both over the edge...

>

> He can get gels from uro or family doc, is this best way to go and get testing

done correctly this time (I now know from the group his E2 went high on gels/

high dose shots before and he was never retested properly and raised

accordingly...and do other stuff as needed on own? I have concerns about

availability of mail order in future as I have already heard rumblings about

requirements in 2011 to have all scripts faxed from a doctor to pharmacy

directly..

>

> For comparison, last labs NOV 2008 on same thyroid meds:Quest Labs

>

> TSH 3.15 (.45-4.5)

> Free T3 not done by this doc

> Free T4 1.5 (0.8-1.8)

> T4 total 5.4 (ranges on copy fuzzy)

> T3 total 96 (97-219)

> E2 ultrasensitive 27 (<29)

> LH 3.9 (1.5-9.3)

> Prolactin 5.4 (2.0-18.0)

> Testosterone free 29.4 (range on copy fuzzy)

> Testosterone bioavailable 82.8 (110-473)

> Testosterone total 270 (280-1100)

> DHEA-s 84 (25-240)

> SHBG 23 (18-47)

>

> Thanks so much everyone for logical, clear next steps! EL

>

[Guest guest]

Good Point Dave that is what I had to do my blood cortisol levels were low my

Dr. would not give me Cortef so I got some Isocort he felt it was ok sold OTC

when he seen how good I was feeling on it. He gave in and ordered me some

Cortef.

With Isocort or Cortef one needs to start low and work there way up on the dose.

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/how-to-treat/

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Dave <dcbaden@...>

> Subject: Re: Help with dh labs please

>

> Date: Sunday, October 31, 2010, 3:32 PM

> I didn't do too well on either TRT or

> thyroid meds until I started Isocort to support my adrenals.

>

> Try doing a saliva cortisol test which you can purchase

> online at canaryclub.org.

> If he has low cortisol, see if your doc will give cortef

> ~20mg / day.  If not, you can purchase Isocort which is

> made from sheep adrenals and provides the same support at 8

> pellets / day.  That may help make his thyroid meds

> more active as well as his natural testosterone.  My

> labs got markedly better since I started this routine.

>

> JMHO: Please don't take this the wrong way, but the lack of

> motivation and no sex for > 5 years (!!!) tells me that

> perhaps you should broach the idea of therapy (individual or

> couple).

>

> Best wishes.

>

>

> >

> > Trying to help him get *motivated* to self help low T

> (successful getting him on thyroid and off Effexor)but not

> on a plane to DR C:

> >

> > Oct 2010 --LabCorp--on 2 gr ERFA and DIM--no other

> hormones:lots of lower to mid back pain, can't stay awake

> after dinner, no exercise and usual motivation factors, no

> sex >5 years etc

> >

> > TSH   1.87 (.45-4.5)

> > Free T3  3.0 (2.0-4.4)

> > Free T4   0.99 (.82-1.77)

> > E2 Q4021 sensitive  24.6 (6.42.5)

> > LH 5.4 (1.7-8.6)

> > FSH 7.8 (1.5-12.4)

> > Prolactin 7.5 (4.0-15.7)

> > Testosterone serum  243 (280-800)

> > Free Testosterone direct  5.6 (7.2-24.0)

> >

> > Of concern: liver values went up in two weeks time

> from in range(ast/alt 28/39 to 42/91) over range from first

> testing...only thing new was *new blood pressure drug* due

> to (IMO) obvious low T issues...and cholesterol issues..

> >

> > Our family doc willing and open to testing, however

> how can I help him get over this last hurdle of getting

> expert hormone help w/ T? We tried BodyLogic..he was never

> even suggested to supplement T (!!!) with them and that put

> us both over the edge...

> >

> > He can get gels from uro or family doc, is this best

> way to go and get testing done correctly this time (I now

> know from the group his E2 went high on gels/ high dose

> shots before and he was never retested properly and raised

> accordingly...and do other stuff as needed on own? I have

> concerns about availability of mail order in future as I

> have already heard rumblings about requirements in 2011 to

> have all scripts faxed from a doctor to pharmacy directly..

> >

> > For comparison, last labs NOV 2008 on same thyroid

> meds:Quest Labs

> >

> > TSH  3.15 (.45-4.5)

> > Free T3 not done by this doc

> > Free T4 1.5  (0.8-1.8)

> > T4 total  5.4 (ranges on copy fuzzy)

> > T3 total  96 (97-219)

> > E2 ultrasensitive  27  (<29)

> > LH  3.9 (1.5-9.3)

> > Prolactin  5.4 (2.0-18.0)

> > Testosterone free 29.4 (range on copy fuzzy)

> > Testosterone bioavailable  82.8 (110-473)

> > Testosterone total 270 (280-1100)

> > DHEA-s  84 (25-240)

> > SHBG 23  (18-47)

> >

> > Thanks so much everyone for logical, clear next steps!

> EL

> >

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Cortisol not below range, trends low normal tho...yes, I would think low and

slow best for a boost in ERFA, thanks Barb..EL

> > > >

> > > > Trying to help him get *motivated* to self help low T (successful

getting him on thyroid and off Effexor)but not on a plane to DR C:

> > > >

> > > > Oct 2010 --LabCorp--on 2 gr ERFA and DIM--no other hormones:lots of

lower to mid back pain, can't stay awake after dinner, no exercise and usual

motivation factors, no sex >5 years etc

> > > >

> > > > TSH 1.87 (.45-4.5)

> > > > Free T3 3.0 (2.0-4.4)

> > > > Free T4 0.99 (.82-1.77)

> > > > E2 Q4021 sensitive 24.6 (6.42.5)

> > > > LH 5.4 (1.7-8.6)

> > > > FSH 7.8 (1.5-12.4)

> > > > Prolactin 7.5 (4.0-15.7)

> > > > Testosterone serum 243 (280-800)

> > > > Free Testosterone direct 5.6 (7.2-24.0)

> > > >

> > > > Of concern: liver values went up in two weeks time from in range(ast/alt

28/39 to 42/91) over range from first testing...only thing new was *new blood

pressure drug* due to (IMO) obvious low T issues...and cholesterol issues..

> > > >

> > > > Our family doc willing and open to testing, however how can I help him

get over this last hurdle of getting expert hormone help w/ T? We tried

BodyLogic..he was never even suggested to supplement T (!!!) with them and that

put us both over the edge...

> > > >

> > > > He can get gels from uro or family doc, is this best way to go and get

testing done correctly this time (I now know from the group his E2 went high on

gels/ high dose shots before and he was never retested properly and raised

accordingly...and do other stuff as needed on own? I have concerns about

availability of mail order in future as I have already heard rumblings about

requirements in 2011 to have all scripts faxed from a doctor to pharmacy

directly..

> > > >

> > > > For comparison, last labs NOV 2008 on same thyroid meds:Quest Labs

> > > >

> > > > TSH 3.15 (.45-4.5)

> > > > Free T3 not done by this doc

> > > > Free T4 1.5 (0.8-1.8)

> > > > T4 total 5.4 (ranges on copy fuzzy)

> > > > T3 total 96 (97-219)

> > > > E2 ultrasensitive 27 (<29)

> > > > LH 3.9 (1.5-9.3)

> > > > Prolactin 5.4 (2.0-18.0)

> > > > Testosterone free 29.4 (range on copy fuzzy)

> > > > Testosterone bioavailable 82.8 (110-473)

> > > > Testosterone total 270 (280-1100)

> > > > DHEA-s 84 (25-240)

> > > > SHBG 23 (18-47)

> > > >

> > > > Thanks so much everyone for logical, clear next steps! EL

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Dave..glad you are feeling better---I myself have just weaned off HC ..he

seems to be ok with some Traditional Chinese Medicine supps we are trying ..

...LOL therapy -his ex-wife tried that so I knew it would not work ::smile:: --I

told him I would divorce him if he could not get interested enough to preserve

his own health, much less the relationship...but he is seeing he is feeling much

better with thyroid meds and is actively seeking testing etc so hopefully we are

seeing the light ! EL

> >

> > Trying to help him get *motivated* to self help low T (successful getting

him on thyroid and off Effexor)but not on a plane to DR C:

> >

> > Oct 2010 --LabCorp--on 2 gr ERFA and DIM--no other hormones:lots of lower to

mid back pain, can't stay awake after dinner, no exercise and usual motivation

factors, no sex >5 years etc

> >

> > TSH 1.87 (.45-4.5)

> > Free T3 3.0 (2.0-4.4)

> > Free T4 0.99 (.82-1.77)

> > E2 Q4021 sensitive 24.6 (6.42.5)

> > LH 5.4 (1.7-8.6)

> > FSH 7.8 (1.5-12.4)

> > Prolactin 7.5 (4.0-15.7)

> > Testosterone serum 243 (280-800)

> > Free Testosterone direct 5.6 (7.2-24.0)

> >

> > Of concern: liver values went up in two weeks time from in range(ast/alt

28/39 to 42/91) over range from first testing...only thing new was *new blood

pressure drug* due to (IMO) obvious low T issues...and cholesterol issues..

> >

> > Our family doc willing and open to testing, however how can I help him get

over this last hurdle of getting expert hormone help w/ T? We tried

BodyLogic..he was never even suggested to supplement T (!!!) with them and that

put us both over the edge...

> >

> > He can get gels from uro or family doc, is this best way to go and get

testing done correctly this time (I now know from the group his E2 went high on

gels/ high dose shots before and he was never retested properly and raised

accordingly...and do other stuff as needed on own? I have concerns about

availability of mail order in future as I have already heard rumblings about

requirements in 2011 to have all scripts faxed from a doctor to pharmacy

directly..

> >

> > For comparison, last labs NOV 2008 on same thyroid meds:Quest Labs

> >

> > TSH 3.15 (.45-4.5)

> > Free T3 not done by this doc

> > Free T4 1.5 (0.8-1.8)

> > T4 total 5.4 (ranges on copy fuzzy)

> > T3 total 96 (97-219)

> > E2 ultrasensitive 27 (<29)

> > LH 3.9 (1.5-9.3)

> > Prolactin 5.4 (2.0-18.0)

> > Testosterone free 29.4 (range on copy fuzzy)

> > Testosterone bioavailable 82.8 (110-473)

> > Testosterone total 270 (280-1100)

> > DHEA-s 84 (25-240)

> > SHBG 23 (18-47)

> >

> > Thanks so much everyone for logical, clear next steps! EL

> >

>

[Guest guest]

That's great.

Kudos for being a supportive AND helpful spouse. Do you know how many men get

b*tched out for less than what he's going through?

You're one in a million.

BTW - maybe he'd be open to a TRT alternative such as Clomid or HCG?

What is the source of his apprehension? Let us know and maybe we can provide

some supporting information. I just took my 3rd shot today after about 9 mos.

on gels. Piece of cake. Gels were a real PITA.

> > >

> > > Trying to help him get *motivated* to self help low T (successful getting

him on thyroid and off Effexor)but not on a plane to DR C:

> > >

> > > Oct 2010 --LabCorp--on 2 gr ERFA and DIM--no other hormones:lots of lower

to mid back pain, can't stay awake after dinner, no exercise and usual

motivation factors, no sex >5 years etc

> > >

> > > TSH 1.87 (.45-4.5)

> > > Free T3 3.0 (2.0-4.4)

> > > Free T4 0.99 (.82-1.77)

> > > E2 Q4021 sensitive 24.6 (6.42.5)

> > > LH 5.4 (1.7-8.6)

> > > FSH 7.8 (1.5-12.4)

> > > Prolactin 7.5 (4.0-15.7)

> > > Testosterone serum 243 (280-800)

> > > Free Testosterone direct 5.6 (7.2-24.0)

> > >

> > > Of concern: liver values went up in two weeks time from in range(ast/alt

28/39 to 42/91) over range from first testing...only thing new was *new blood

pressure drug* due to (IMO) obvious low T issues...and cholesterol issues..

> > >

> > > Our family doc willing and open to testing, however how can I help him get

over this last hurdle of getting expert hormone help w/ T? We tried

BodyLogic..he was never even suggested to supplement T (!!!) with them and that

put us both over the edge...

> > >

> > > He can get gels from uro or family doc, is this best way to go and get

testing done correctly this time (I now know from the group his E2 went high on

gels/ high dose shots before and he was never retested properly and raised

accordingly...and do other stuff as needed on own? I have concerns about

availability of mail order in future as I have already heard rumblings about

requirements in 2011 to have all scripts faxed from a doctor to pharmacy

directly..

> > >

> > > For comparison, last labs NOV 2008 on same thyroid meds:Quest Labs

> > >

> > > TSH 3.15 (.45-4.5)

> > > Free T3 not done by this doc

> > > Free T4 1.5 (0.8-1.8)

> > > T4 total 5.4 (ranges on copy fuzzy)

> > > T3 total 96 (97-219)

> > > E2 ultrasensitive 27 (<29)

> > > LH 3.9 (1.5-9.3)

> > > Prolactin 5.4 (2.0-18.0)

> > > Testosterone free 29.4 (range on copy fuzzy)

> > > Testosterone bioavailable 82.8 (110-473)

> > > Testosterone total 270 (280-1100)

> > > DHEA-s 84 (25-240)

> > > SHBG 23 (18-47)

> > >

> > > Thanks so much everyone for logical, clear next steps! EL

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Dave, I think his core issue is getting the *right doc* (besides me of

course and I spent 25 years in pharmacy not medicine!)--his first several

attempts at T were not successful as follows (he is not of the mindset to feel

like the answer is to get on a plane and see Dr C altho I can't say I understand

that except he has pretty much given up ever recovering his health)--

his uro (1st one) gave him the big injections of T / month---before I found this

group)..no mention of potential estradiol issues (grrr) --current uro (in same

practice--does surg only and admits not knowing much about hormones (least he is

honest :--but will run whatever tests we need (big plus, shows he his a

doctor who wants to do the right thing), lastly big/$$$ BodyLogic doc did

nothing for low T (gets points for getting him on thyroid hormone tho)---guess

the doc thought it would resolve spontaneously..do any of these male doctors

give any thought to what is going to happen to them????

Do none of these male docs understand no sex for 5 years due to ED????? ::

shakes head ::

So now here we are...I believe he understands the need to start *something*, but

remembers the sweating/anxiety of the *wrong* way, was on the gels (hates goopy

crap and then there was the *patches*)--- and does not want that and he not one

to be patient with *lets try this again and see what happens....* w/thyroid

issues and thick/oily skin type he would probably be best suited for T IM like

you mention...not sure what to say anymore ...EL

> > > >

> > > > Trying to help him get *motivated* to self help low T (successful

getting him on thyroid and off Effexor)but not on a plane to DR C:

> > > >

> > > > Oct 2010 --LabCorp--on 2 gr ERFA and DIM--no other hormones:lots of

lower to mid back pain, can't stay awake after dinner, no exercise and usual

motivation factors, no sex >5 years etc

> > > >

> > > > TSH 1.87 (.45-4.5)

> > > > Free T3 3.0 (2.0-4.4)

> > > > Free T4 0.99 (.82-1.77)

> > > > E2 Q4021 sensitive 24.6 (6.42.5)

> > > > LH 5.4 (1.7-8.6)

> > > > FSH 7.8 (1.5-12.4)

> > > > Prolactin 7.5 (4.0-15.7)

> > > > Testosterone serum 243 (280-800)

> > > > Free Testosterone direct 5.6 (7.2-24.0)

> > > >

> > > > Of concern: liver values went up in two weeks time from in range(ast/alt

28/39 to 42/91) over range from first testing...only thing new was *new blood

pressure drug* due to (IMO) obvious low T issues...and cholesterol issues..

> > > >

> > > > Our family doc willing and open to testing, however how can I help him

get over this last hurdle of getting expert hormone help w/ T? We tried

BodyLogic..he was never even suggested to supplement T (!!!) with them and that

put us both over the edge...

> > > >

> > > > He can get gels from uro or family doc, is this best way to go and get

testing done correctly this time (I now know from the group his E2 went high on

gels/ high dose shots before and he was never retested properly and raised

accordingly...and do other stuff as needed on own? I have concerns about

availability of mail order in future as I have already heard rumblings about

requirements in 2011 to have all scripts faxed from a doctor to pharmacy

directly..

> > > >

> > > > For comparison, last labs NOV 2008 on same thyroid meds:Quest Labs

> > > >

> > > > TSH 3.15 (.45-4.5)

> > > > Free T3 not done by this doc

> > > > Free T4 1.5 (0.8-1.8)

> > > > T4 total 5.4 (ranges on copy fuzzy)

> > > > T3 total 96 (97-219)

> > > > E2 ultrasensitive 27 (<29)

> > > > LH 3.9 (1.5-9.3)

> > > > Prolactin 5.4 (2.0-18.0)

> > > > Testosterone free 29.4 (range on copy fuzzy)

> > > > Testosterone bioavailable 82.8 (110-473)

> > > > Testosterone total 270 (280-1100)

> > > > DHEA-s 84 (25-240)

> > > > SHBG 23 (18-47)

> > > >

> > > > Thanks so much everyone for logical, clear next steps! EL

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Understood.

Working with docs can be frustrating. Seems like he's at a point where he

doesn't know which direction to turn, so he's just standing still.

So without relying on docs, one has to rely on one's own research. The problem

with that is there's a lot of conflicting information out there. More incentive

to do nothing.

Truly, I've found my docs to be worth not much more than being script writers.

At this point, I'd say your best bet is to find a mentor. Someone who's been

through all of this and can talk to him man to man.

I know that some specialty docs (like my sleep clinic) have support groups where

they have meet and greets. Maybe you can find one near you. Think that would

help?

>

> Thanks Dave, I think his core issue is getting the *right doc* (besides me of

course and I spent 25 years in pharmacy not medicine!)--his first several

attempts at T were not successful as follows (he is not of the mindset to feel

like the answer is to get on a plane and see Dr C altho I can't say I understand

that except he has pretty much given up ever recovering his health)--

>

> his uro (1st one) gave him the big injections of T / month---before I found

this group)..no mention of potential estradiol issues (grrr) --current uro (in

same practice--does surg only and admits not knowing much about hormones (least

he is honest :--but will run whatever tests we need (big plus, shows he

his a doctor who wants to do the right thing), lastly big/$$$ BodyLogic doc did

nothing for low T (gets points for getting him on thyroid hormone tho)---guess

the doc thought it would resolve spontaneously..do any of these male doctors

give any thought to what is going to happen to them????

>

> Do none of these male docs understand no sex for 5 years due to ED????? ::

shakes head ::

>

> So now here we are...I believe he understands the need to start *something*,

but remembers the sweating/anxiety of the *wrong* way, was on the gels (hates

goopy crap and then there was the *patches*)--- and does not want that and he

not one to be patient with *lets try this again and see what happens....*

w/thyroid issues and thick/oily skin type he would probably be best suited for T

IM like you mention...not sure what to say anymore ...EL

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the suggestion Dave..it might...but it would not be in his nature to

consult a *stranger* haha, even if he could learn something, heck, it's taken me

forever to get him this far..LOL and I'm a medical professional <<snert>>...in a

perfect world self-treatment not so bad, however, I have concern for ability to

buy from overseas much longer and don't want to start down a path where the rug

could be pulled out at any time so I am more leaning to getting him to treatment

thru our new family doc (whom we both really like)...heck, maybe I will just

directly ask her if she knows of a doc we can trust..her dh a doc too, but all

family practice...EL

> >

> > Thanks Dave, I think his core issue is getting the *right doc* (besides me

of course and I spent 25 years in pharmacy not medicine!)--his first several

attempts at T were not successful as follows (he is not of the mindset to feel

like the answer is to get on a plane and see Dr C altho I can't say I understand

that except he has pretty much given up ever recovering his health)--

> >

> > his uro (1st one) gave him the big injections of T / month---before I found

this group)..no mention of potential estradiol issues (grrr) --current uro (in

same practice--does surg only and admits not knowing much about hormones (least

he is honest :--but will run whatever tests we need (big plus, shows he

his a doctor who wants to do the right thing), lastly big/$$$ BodyLogic doc did

nothing for low T (gets points for getting him on thyroid hormone tho)---guess

the doc thought it would resolve spontaneously..do any of these male doctors

give any thought to what is going to happen to them????

> >

> > Do none of these male docs understand no sex for 5 years due to ED????? ::

shakes head ::

> >

> > So now here we are...I believe he understands the need to start *something*,

but remembers the sweating/anxiety of the *wrong* way, was on the gels (hates

goopy crap and then there was the *patches*)--- and does not want that and he

not one to be patient with *lets try this again and see what happens....*

w/thyroid issues and thick/oily skin type he would probably be best suited for T

IM like you mention...not sure what to say anymore ...EL

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Phil I am bumping this up for further comment on Testosterone: you mention the

need to *find out first* whether primary or secondary, prior to treatment--is

there anything else besides below labs that would indicate either P/S to you

(want to avoid expense of mri if possible)..I am unsure of all the parmeters

taken into account to determine 'which it is' ..I totally forgot to have

progesterone/SHBG done..

Is pregnenalone cream now the recommendation or progesterone and does testing or

symptom relief matter more? Thanks EL

> TSH 1.87 (.45-4.5)

> Free T3 3.0 (2.0-4.4)

> Free T4 0.99 (.82-1.77)

> E2 Q4021 sensitive 24.6 (6.42.5)

> LH 5.4 (1.7-8.6)

> FSH 7.8 (1.5-12.4)

> Prolactin 7.5 (4.0-15.7)

> Testosterone serum 243 (280-800)

> Free Testosterone direct 5.6 (7.2-24.0)

[Guest guest]

From what I see his LH and FSH with good levels of Estradiol looks to me like he

is Primary meaning his testis can't make enough Testosterone. But before going

on TRT see an Uro. have him checked out make sure there is no infection if there

is this would lower his T levels. He should be checked for cancer before trying

TRT.

At Dr. 's forum men are trying Preg. creams and some are trying Prog. cream

I started on Preg. it helped with my low Ferritin, Thyroid, Cortisol and

Testosterone to make them more level. I am finding my HC meds last longer. My

Estraidol is not all over the place more steady.

I ran out of Preg. cream and by accident got Prog. cream I was posting at Dr.

's forum how good I was feeling on the Preg. cream 20 mgs when one of the

guys asked where I got Life-Flo 20mgs Preg. cream. I posted a link and he

pointed out it was not Preg. cream but Prog.

I have been telling men they should not use this now that I have been using it

and not knowing it. I can't tell you how much better I feel. My sex life is

over the top in the past when we went to have sex there was no time for fore

play I could only keep it going 15 to 20 min.'s now I can last over an hour and

feel like having sex everyday.

My wife move out of the bedroom told me to get a girl friend. :-(

But I tested my Preg. and Prog. levels before all of this. I feel men should

not try this until they have labs testing this. My Preg. was very low at the

bottom on Preg. cream 4 weeks my levels went up to 77 then in 6 more weeks my

labs went up to 117.

My Prog. levels have allways been low <0.5 doing the Preg. cream my Prog. levels

did not come up.

My Dr. told me to finish the Prog. cream I have 6 weeks left and we will test my

Prog. levels see whats going on. Until then when I finish it I am to go back on

he Preg. I buy this from Life-Flo and from what I am told the Preg. cream 15

mgs is a low dose. Dr. has his men on 50 mgs of cream.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: mbmom123 <lathe30248@...>

> Subject: Re: Help with dh labs please

>

> Date: Saturday, December 4, 2010, 10:47 AM

> Phil I am bumping this up for further

> comment on Testosterone: you mention the need to *find out

> first* whether primary or secondary, prior to treatment--is

> there anything else besides below labs that would indicate

> either P/S to you (want to avoid expense of mri if

> possible)..I am unsure of all the parmeters taken into

> account to determine 'which it is' ..I totally forgot to

> have progesterone/SHBG done..

>

> Is pregnenalone cream now the recommendation or

> progesterone and does testing or symptom relief matter more?

> Thanks EL

>

>

> > TSH   1.87 (.45-4.5)

> > Free T3  3.0 (2.0-4.4)

> > Free T4   0.99 (.82-1.77)

> > E2 Q4021 sensitive  24.6 (6.42.5)

> > LH 5.4 (1.7-8.6)

> > FSH 7.8 (1.5-12.4)

> > Prolactin 7.5 (4.0-15.7)

> > Testosterone serum  243 (280-800)

> > Free Testosterone direct  5.6 (7.2-24.0)

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi El, is your DH on thyroid meds, cause his labs are kinda low. Dr. no

likes FT3 about 3.4+ and FT4 1.2+

Barb

>

> Phil I am bumping this up for further comment on Testosterone: you mention the

need to *find out first* whether primary or secondary, prior to treatment--is

there anything else besides below labs that would indicate either P/S to you

(want to avoid expense of mri if possible)..I am unsure of all the parmeters

taken into account to determine 'which it is' ..I totally forgot to have

progesterone/SHBG done..

>

> Is pregnenalone cream now the recommendation or progesterone and does testing

or symptom relief matter more? Thanks EL

>

>

> > TSH 1.87 (.45-4.5)

> > Free T3 3.0 (2.0-4.4)

> > Free T4 0.99 (.82-1.77)

> > E2 Q4021 sensitive 24.6 (6.42.5)

> > LH 5.4 (1.7-8.6)

> > FSH 7.8 (1.5-12.4)

> > Prolactin 7.5 (4.0-15.7)

> > Testosterone serum 243 (280-800)

> > Free Testosterone direct 5.6 (7.2-24.0)

>

[Guest guest]

Barb,

I feel this works for most people but some of us myself included feel hyper over

3 for Free T3.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Barb <baba@...>

> Subject: Re: Help with dh labs please

>

> Date: Saturday, December 4, 2010, 11:42 AM

> Hi El, is your DH on thyroid meds,

> cause his labs are kinda low. Dr. no likes FT3 about

> 3.4+ and FT4 1.2+

>

> Barb

>

>

> >

> > Phil I am bumping this up for further comment on

> Testosterone: you mention the need to *find out first*

> whether primary or secondary, prior to treatment--is there

> anything else besides below labs that would indicate either

> P/S to you (want to avoid expense of mri if possible)..I am

> unsure of all the parmeters taken into account to determine

> 'which it is' ..I totally forgot to have progesterone/SHBG

> done..

> >

> > Is pregnenalone cream now the recommendation or

> progesterone and does testing or symptom relief matter more?

> Thanks EL

> >

> >

> > > TSH   1.87 (.45-4.5)

> > > Free T3  3.0 (2.0-4.4)

> > > Free T4   0.99 (.82-1.77)

> > > E2 Q4021 sensitive  24.6 (6.42.5)

> > > LH 5.4 (1.7-8.6)

> > > FSH 7.8 (1.5-12.4)

> > > Prolactin 7.5 (4.0-15.7)

> > > Testosterone serum  243 (280-800)

> > > Free Testosterone direct  5.6 (7.2-24.0)

> >

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Phil. He sees a uro once per year and his PSA is 0.8 without any

infections..he does have occassional bout of prostititis which is concerning,

but what I have read that *may* be related to E2 levels? What else should we

check out?

I will have the preg and prog levels run next time, is there a special lab test

for men on those? He has used Androgel in the past (and quit due to sweats etc)

before I knew about E2 issues and how to use for 2 weeks and restest (and doc of

course not knowledgeable)and one doc had him coming in for what I know now where

the mega shots of T (dumb doctors)...maybe our primary care doc will write for T

INJ we can do at home(he has thyroid issues so don't know if gel is the best way

to go right now based on past use it really blew his E2 symptoms up)...what T

prep is everyone using?

Thanks, EL

>

> > From: mbmom123 <lathe30248@...>

> > Subject: Re: Help with dh labs please

> >

> > Date: Saturday, December 4, 2010, 10:47 AM

> > Phil I am bumping this up for further

> > comment on Testosterone: you mention the need to *find out

> > first* whether primary or secondary, prior to treatment--is

> > there anything else besides below labs that would indicate

> > either P/S to you (want to avoid expense of mri if

> > possible)..I am unsure of all the parmeters taken into

> > account to determine 'which it is' ..I totally forgot to

> > have progesterone/SHBG done..

> >

> > Is pregnenalone cream now the recommendation or

> > progesterone and does testing or symptom relief matter more?

> > Thanks EL

> >

> >

> > > TSH   1.87 (.45-4.5)

> > > Free T3  3.0 (2.0-4.4)

> > > Free T4   0.99 (.82-1.77)

> > > E2 Q4021 sensitive  24.6 (6.42.5)

> > > LH 5.4 (1.7-8.6)

> > > FSH 7.8 (1.5-12.4)

> > > Prolactin 7.5 (4.0-15.7)

> > > Testosterone serum  243 (280-800)

> > > Free Testosterone direct  5.6 (7.2-24.0)

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Barb, yes dh is on 2 gr ERFA daily. I am not thinking of bumping that up as he

is doing pretty well (his issues with thyroid are mental and this is 100% better

on meds) and I don't want to jack his adrenals up...EL

> >

> > Phil I am bumping this up for further comment on Testosterone: you mention

the need to *find out first* whether primary or secondary, prior to

treatment--is there anything else besides below labs that would indicate either

P/S to you (want to avoid expense of mri if possible)..I am unsure of all the

parmeters taken into account to determine 'which it is' ..I totally forgot to

have progesterone/SHBG done..

> >

> > Is pregnenalone cream now the recommendation or progesterone and does

testing or symptom relief matter more? Thanks EL

> >

> >

> > > TSH 1.87 (.45-4.5)

> > > Free T3 3.0 (2.0-4.4)

> > > Free T4 0.99 (.82-1.77)

> > > E2 Q4021 sensitive 24.6 (6.42.5)

> > > LH 5.4 (1.7-8.6)

> > > FSH 7.8 (1.5-12.4)

> > > Prolactin 7.5 (4.0-15.7)

> > > Testosterone serum 243 (280-800)

> > > Free Testosterone direct 5.6 (7.2-24.0)

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Well it's the cost with most men and if he as a thyroid problem Gels might not

get through his skin people with Thyroid problems get a thicker skin can't

remember the name for this. I would do shots starting with 100 mgs / week hold

this for 8 weeks then do labs again. If he feels low by the next shot do 50 mgs

2x's /week.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: mbmom123 <lathe30248@...>

> Subject: Re: Help with dh labs please

>

> Date: Saturday, December 4, 2010, 2:34 PM

> Thanks Phil. He sees a uro once per

> year and his PSA is 0.8 without any infections..he does have

> occassional bout of prostititis which is concerning, but

> what I have read that *may* be related to E2 levels? 

> What else should we check out?

>

> I will have the preg and prog levels run next time, is

> there a special lab test for men on those? He has used

> Androgel in the past (and quit due to sweats etc) before I

> knew about E2 issues and how to use for 2 weeks and restest

> (and doc of course not knowledgeable)and one doc had him

> coming in for what I know now where the mega shots of T

> (dumb doctors)...maybe our primary care doc will write for T

> INJ we can do at home(he has thyroid issues so don't know if

> gel is the best way to go right now based on past use it

> really blew his E2 symptoms up)...what T prep is everyone

> using?

>

> Thanks, EL

>

>

> >

> > > From: mbmom123 <lathe30248@...>

> > > Subject: Re: Help with dh labs

> please

> > >

> > > Date: Saturday, December 4, 2010, 10:47 AM

> > > Phil I am bumping this up for further

> > > comment on Testosterone: you mention the need to

> *find out

> > > first* whether primary or secondary, prior to

> treatment--is

> > > there anything else besides below labs that would

> indicate

> > > either P/S to you (want to avoid expense of mri

> if

> > > possible)..I am unsure of all the parmeters taken

> into

> > > account to determine 'which it is' ..I totally

> forgot to

> > > have progesterone/SHBG done..

> > >

> > > Is pregnenalone cream now the recommendation or

> > > progesterone and does testing or symptom relief

> matter more?

> > > Thanks EL

> > >

> > >

> > > > TSH   1.87 (.45-4.5)

> > > > Free T3  3.0 (2.0-4.4)

> > > > Free T4   0.99 (.82-1.77)

> > > > E2 Q4021 sensitive  24.6 (6.42.5)

> > > > LH 5.4 (1.7-8.6)

> > > > FSH 7.8 (1.5-12.4)

> > > > Prolactin 7.5 (4.0-15.7)

> > > > Testosterone serum  243 (280-800)

> > > > Free Testosterone direct  5.6 (7.2-24.0)

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

I dunno about that one. I think " feeling hyper " and actually being hyper are

two different things. I think if your FT3 is under 3, that's an intolerance,

usually caused by low ferritin, cortisol, underlying infection or something.

The fact that your heels are so rough tells me your body's not getting enough

thyroid hormone. That's one indicator DH and I have watched go from rough to

smooth to rough to smooth everytime we change our dose.

Barb

> > >

> > > Phil I am bumping this up for further comment on

> > Testosterone: you mention the need to *find out first*

> > whether primary or secondary, prior to treatment--is there

> > anything else besides below labs that would indicate either

> > P/S to you (want to avoid expense of mri if possible)..I am

> > unsure of all the parmeters taken into account to determine

> > 'which it is' ..I totally forgot to have progesterone/SHBG

> > done..

> > >

> > > Is pregnenalone cream now the recommendation or

> > progesterone and does testing or symptom relief matter more?

> > Thanks EL

> > >

> > >

> > > > TSH   1.87 (.45-4.5)

> > > > Free T3  3.0 (2.0-4.4)

> > > > Free T4   0.99 (.82-1.77)

> > > > E2 Q4021 sensitive  24.6 (6.42.5)

> > > > LH 5.4 (1.7-8.6)

> > > > FSH 7.8 (1.5-12.4)

> > > > Prolactin 7.5 (4.0-15.7)

> > > > Testosterone serum  243 (280-800)

> > > > Free Testosterone direct  5.6 (7.2-24.0)

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Just FYI, I added 25 mcg to DH's 2 gr Erfa and he is doing MUCH better. Your

brain runs off T4 and converts it to T3 up there with its own enzymes.

Barb

> > >

> > > Phil I am bumping this up for further comment on Testosterone: you mention

the need to *find out first* whether primary or secondary, prior to

treatment--is there anything else besides below labs that would indicate either

P/S to you (want to avoid expense of mri if possible)..I am unsure of all the

parmeters taken into account to determine 'which it is' ..I totally forgot to

have progesterone/SHBG done..

> > >

> > > Is pregnenalone cream now the recommendation or progesterone and does

testing or symptom relief matter more? Thanks EL

> > >

> > >

> > > > TSH 1.87 (.45-4.5)

> > > > Free T3 3.0 (2.0-4.4)

> > > > Free T4 0.99 (.82-1.77)

> > > > E2 Q4021 sensitive 24.6 (6.42.5)

> > > > LH 5.4 (1.7-8.6)

> > > > FSH 7.8 (1.5-12.4)

> > > > Prolactin 7.5 (4.0-15.7)

> > > > Testosterone serum 243 (280-800)

> > > > Free Testosterone direct 5.6 (7.2-24.0)

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

My Ferritin is at 260 something and last test it was 300 going on Preg. cream I

feel helped with this. My heals are smooth never thought to check them until

you posted this. My wife goes hyper over 3 for Free T3 levels and she is on a

very low dose of generic synthroid doing T3 2.5 mcgs 3 days a week go figure.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Barb <baba@...>

> Subject: Re: Help with dh labs please

>

> Date: Saturday, December 4, 2010, 3:20 PM

> I dunno about that one.  I think

> " feeling hyper " and actually being hyper are two different

> things.  I think if your FT3 is under 3, that's an

> intolerance, usually caused by low ferritin, cortisol,

> underlying infection or something.  The fact that your

> heels are so rough tells me your body's not getting enough

> thyroid hormone.  That's one indicator DH and I have

> watched go from rough to smooth to rough to smooth everytime

> we change our dose.

>

> Barb

>

>

> > > >

> > > > Phil I am bumping this up for further

> comment on

> > > Testosterone: you mention the need to *find out

> first*

> > > whether primary or secondary, prior to

> treatment--is there

> > > anything else besides below labs that would

> indicate either

> > > P/S to you (want to avoid expense of mri if

> possible)..I am

> > > unsure of all the parmeters taken into account to

> determine

> > > 'which it is' ..I totally forgot to have

> progesterone/SHBG

> > > done..

> > > >

> > > > Is pregnenalone cream now the recommendation

> or

> > > progesterone and does testing or symptom relief

> matter more?

> > > Thanks EL

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > TSH   1.87 (.45-4.5)

> > > > > Free T3  3.0 (2.0-4.4)

> > > > > Free T4   0.99 (.82-1.77)

> > > > > E2 Q4021 sensitive  24.6 (6.42.5)

> > > > > LH 5.4 (1.7-8.6)

> > > > > FSH 7.8 (1.5-12.4)

> > > > > Prolactin 7.5 (4.0-15.7)

> > > > > Testosterone serum  243 (280-800)

> > > > > Free Testosterone direct  5.6

> (7.2-24.0)

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >