Re: needle size/TRT - What I use

[Guest guest]

With all this conversation on needle size and methods of injection, I feel I

should mention what I use.

I mean no disrespect to Phil and his 27 ga 1/2 " system, but that is not what

most doctors or nurses would recommend.

My wife is an RN and usually gives me the shot in my gluetus maximus (butt).

When she is not available I give myself the shot in the vastus lateralis (thigh

muscle).

We use a 22ga x 1 1/2 " Syringe with detachable needle. BD # 309593.

We have 18ga x 1 " needles to draw with: BD # 305195

These can be ordered from Amazon.com or many other online sources. Just Google

the BD (Becton Dickinson)number.

We use the 18ga needle to draw the testosterone cypionate, then replace it with

the original 22ga needle for injection.

I will admit that the 1 1/2 " needle looks a bit wicked but with one exception

when we hit a nerve it is virtually painless. A sharp, single use needle enters

quite smoothly. In addition most of the nerves are near the skin, so you are

not going to feel much by going deeper.

Testosterone Cypionate is fairly thick and is designed to be placed deeply in a

large muscle. The idea behind a " depot " injection it that is will remain in the

muscle for a long time and slowly enter circulation. If the " bolus " of T is near

the skin where there are many capillaries, it will disperse much more rapidly

than intended.

A half inch needle would barely get it through my skin and the underlying layer

of fat. Furthermore, with a small gauge needle, greater force in needed on the

plunger and it has to stay in longer. This leads to a greater liklihood that

you will wiggle it around while injecting and that's not good.

My wife was taught to never rub the injection site. This only adds to the injury

caused by the needle. Just wipe it with an alcohol prep and put on a bandaid if

needed.

Your mileage may vary but that's what works for me.

Randy Hoops

Springfield, MO

[Guest guest]

The very first time when I got my TC shot from my docs office, the nurse told me

that TC has to be administered by a 21G needle and to draw the med using a 18G

needle is good. So first few of my shots, I got that way and the " depot "

term/concept is also right. I read it somewhere online. " The med has to be

deposited deep in the muscle " .

But when I started HCG, I liked the " no pain " needle 27G. So I asked my doc to

use something better than 21G and so he ordered 26G for me. Since then I have

been getting my TC shots with a 26G 1/2 inch needle but some how it hurts a

little. And my wife gives my shots now.

So my last shot, I asked my wife to use a 27G and she used it and its " NO

HURTING " . Zero pain. So............... I think as most of the guys here do their

shots themselves and on a regular basis, to avoid the pain they use smaller

needles like 27G / 28G / 30G etc.

What all we want is avoid the PAIN. Right !

Joe.

>

> With all this conversation on needle size and methods of injection, I feel I

should mention what I use.

>

> I mean no disrespect to Phil and his 27 ga 1/2 " system, but that is not what

most doctors or nurses would recommend.

>

> My wife is an RN and usually gives me the shot in my gluetus maximus (butt).

>

> When she is not available I give myself the shot in the vastus lateralis

(thigh muscle).

>

> We use a 22ga x 1 1/2 " Syringe with detachable needle. BD # 309593.

> We have 18ga x 1 " needles to draw with: BD # 305195

>

> These can be ordered from Amazon.com or many other online sources. Just Google

the BD (Becton Dickinson)number.

>

> We use the 18ga needle to draw the testosterone cypionate, then replace it

with the original 22ga needle for injection.

>

> I will admit that the 1 1/2 " needle looks a bit wicked but with one exception

when we hit a nerve it is virtually painless. A sharp, single use needle enters

quite smoothly. In addition most of the nerves are near the skin, so you are

not going to feel much by going deeper.

>

> Testosterone Cypionate is fairly thick and is designed to be placed deeply in

a large muscle. The idea behind a " depot " injection it that is will remain in

the muscle for a long time and slowly enter circulation. If the " bolus " of T is

near the skin where there are many capillaries, it will disperse much more

rapidly than intended.

>

> A half inch needle would barely get it through my skin and the underlying

layer of fat. Furthermore, with a small gauge needle, greater force in needed on

the plunger and it has to stay in longer. This leads to a greater liklihood

that you will wiggle it around while injecting and that's not good.

>

> My wife was taught to never rub the injection site. This only adds to the

injury caused by the needle. Just wipe it with an alcohol prep and put on a

bandaid if needed.

>

> Your mileage may vary but that's what works for me.

>

> Randy Hoops

> Springfield, MO

>

[Guest guest]

Bill, could you elaborate on this? In what way did you feel differently? Did

you feel like you got more estradiol that way? I use a 25G, 1 " , 1 ml syringe,

draw, shoot, no changing of needles, best compromise for minimal cost and

minimal pain.

Bill Totten <bill_totten@...> wrote:

> I have recently tried a 27 ga. 1/2 " and I agree

> wholeheartedly that the T seems to dissipate into my blood system faster and I

frankly) don't like it. 

[Guest guest]

Phil, just wanted to say I love your attitude here. On other mostly female

forums, a bitch fight would've broken out! A forum is SUPPOSED to be a place to

express different ideas and to learn from one another, not strong-arm one

point-of-view only. So thanks for keeping it real.

Barb

philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

>

> It's all good

[Guest guest]

Phil, Barb and all others,

Yes. Phil is a very open person. I have observed several posts and thought how

did the moderator approve them.

That shows his positive attitude. I posted some info about Homeopatic remedy for

Hypothyroidism on Shammon's forum and later I found that my posts were

deleted. They think there is no other medicine other than these 'drugs' made by

these big gaint pharma companies.

Barb, I told about Nattokainese to a friend who is a doctor (MD) and he did a

study on it and he is spreading the good news of it. This morning he mentioned

that I get lot of good info. And that's all from people like you.

Did you read about the Nurse Practioner in Atlanta who does HRT and the fee is

195 per year(annual labs included) and 35 per month + unlimited visits in the

month ? I felt that's what we want today. Not all these insurance companies

taking all our money. My insurance costs me about 450 per month and again I end

up paying 600 deductible and also the rx copay is crazy. For 8 arimidex tabs I

had to pay $35.00 copay.

Also, guys if anyone cant afford to pay for their surgeries and want some help,

please post it and I can redirect them to some Indian doctors who can help them

get a open heart surgery for about 4000 dollars in India. World class treatment.

There is another thing called " Medical Tourism " where you can go and get the

treatment.

Thank You

Joe

> > >

> > > It's all good

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Thanks Joe, and glad you're spreading the word about natto. When I mentioned it

to DH's cardiologist, he poo-poohed it. Now *I* get to be DH's doc - ha!

When I was on M.S.'s hypo forum, I was told I was giving medical advice, by

diagnosing and suggesting things, and needed to tone it down. Well you can't

give advice unless you read their labs and determine if they're hypo, hyper, or

not!

I've also been put on moderation for having an opinion contrary to the

moderator's. We should all be grateful that Phil is SO open-minded.

Barb

> > > >

> > > > It's all good

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[Guest guest]

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[Guest guest]

Thanks Bill, I agree that what you're experiencing are high estrogen symptoms.

I also agree that all HRT is a royal PITA (literally for you guys)!

It's possible that 50 mg at once is too much, and for you, putting it deeper in

the muscle helps slow down absorption. Everyone's different. That's why I like

1 " , it could be partially subq, and partially muscle, so he gets the benefit of

either.

I've been reading Dr. no's site (thanks Phil for the link!) and he says

total T of 650 is what he shoots for. If you're above that and still don't feel

right, you need to look at other hormones (thyroid would be my guess), diet,

brain chemistry, etc.

Barb

Bill Totten <bill_totten@...> wrote:

>

> Hi Barb,

>

> When I " feel " the testosterone at GOOD levels, I feel well overall.  My

energy

> is good, my mind is clear, my mood is positive, no sweats, no ups-and-downs

> during the days.  When I feel BAD, I am fatigued, I bloat (water retention),

my

> breathing gets a bit labored (the water retention), I sometimes get hot

flashes,

> my hands sweat, and I just feel down.  My guess is my estrogen is causing

these

> symptoms.  Another symptom is that I get more of a " rush " if I use the

shorted

> needle.  Not sure what that is, but I definitely feel something.

>

> Using my symptoms as a metric (instead of blood tests) as to when I think my

> hormones are in a good range, here's what I have observed; when I use the

> shorter needle I have almost all BAD days. In fact, I usually go from feeling

> sort of okay (before the shot) to feeling the BAD symptoms pretty soon after

the

> shot (later that day sometimes, for the next 2-4 days every time).  Usually,

by

> the next day and for the next few days, I have my BAD symptoms.

>

> If I use the longer needle, I tend to have GOOD days for days 1-4 after my

> shot.  My belief is that I am getting too much T too fast which is causing my

> estrogen to rise quickly.

>

> I noticed something that may backup my theory; when I first started injecting

T

> I noticed that if I injected in my right leg, I felt better (more good days)

> than if I injected in my left leg.  My right leg has more muscle than my

left. 

> Could it be that because I have more muscle that the T is being absorbed

> slower? 

>

>

> So.. what do you think of this?

> Bill

>

> PS - I have been using the shorter needle for the last two-three weeks and I

> haven't been feeling well at all.  In fact, my best days where when I

stopped my

> injections for about 9 days.  After about a week with no shot had passsed, I

> felt reasonably well.  I injected another shot and felt okay for the next few

> days.  Then I took my next injection and boom, the BAD symptoms have been

> ongoing.  I took my next injection yesterday and I feel like crud.  I inject

> 50mg (.25 of 200ml/ng) twice a week.  I am going in today for some blood

testing

> and I'm very curious what it will show.  Either my T or my E is whacked or

> something else (non-hormonal) is going on.  I doubt it's the latter because

> there sure seems to be a correlation with my T shots.  I think I am going to

> hold off for a week before my next shot and once I start again I am going to

use

> the longer needle and see if that makes my symptoms GOOD more often.  All in

> all, this hormone therapy, which used to help somewhat, is now becoming

annoying

> and it's letting me down in that I just don't understand why I can't get this

> right.

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> From: Barb <baba@...>

>

> Sent: Tue, September 14, 2010 9:05:24 PM

> Subject: Re: needle size/TRT - What I use

>

>  

> Bill, could you elaborate on this? In what way did you feel differently? Did

you

> feel like you got more estradiol that way? I use a 25G, 1 " , 1 ml syringe,

draw,

> shoot, no changing of needles, best compromise for minimal cost and minimal

> pain.

>

> Bill Totten <bill_totten@> wrote:

> > I have recently tried a 27 ga. 1/2 " and I agree

> > wholeheartedly that the T seems to dissipate into my blood system faster and

I

> >frankly) don't like it. 

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Bottom of range is usually hypothyroid. Healthy is mid-range and higher. Do

you have labs and ranges? Cold hands and low temp is most definitely hypo.

Infection should cause higher temp.

Brain chemistry is dopamine, serotonin, all the neurotransmitters that things

like SSRIs and benzos affect. I would not recommend them to anyone till

everything else had been ruled out. In your case, it sounds highly likely that

you're hypothyroid and addressing that could mean a world of difference.

Barb

> > > I have recently tried a 27 ga. 1/2 " and I agree

> > > wholeheartedly that the T seems to dissipate into my blood system faster

and

> >I

> >

> > >frankly) don't like it. 

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Bill, you're not by any chance taking trazadone, are you?

>

> That's what I was thinking too, that the T levels need to go up.  What I'm

> experiencing though is keeping me from doing that; what I'm talking about is

> that my oibido is through the roof and I have so many erections that I can't

> sleep sometimes and my penis actually hurts (it aches) from being hard so long

> (or maybe it's from being really hard regardless of how long it's that way). 

>

>

> What's going to happen if I get the T numbers up (no pun intended) even more

> (say to around 800)?  Am I going to be walking around at " attention " all the

> time or looking for any woman I can find  - actually I'm married . 

>

>

> So, do you think that going to 550 made you feel like crud or do you think

your

> cruddy-feeling was from something else?

>

> Bill

>

[Guest guest]

Joe, can you share the nurse practitioner in Atlanta's contact information ?

Thanks EL

> > > >

> > > > It's all good

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[Guest guest]

Not familiar with the others, but what you describe sounds like mild priapism

(painful, long erections), and Trazadone can cause that side effect for anyone

on TRT. You might want to google priapism with your other meds.

> >

> > That's what I was thinking too, that the T levels need to go up.  What

I'm

> > experiencing though is keeping me from doing that; what I'm talking about is

> > that my oibido is through the roof and I have so many erections that I can't

> > sleep sometimes and my penis actually hurts (it aches) from being hard so

long

>

> > (or maybe it's from being really hard regardless of how long it's that

way). 

>

> >

> >

> > What's going to happen if I get the T numbers up (no pun intended) even more

> > (say to around 800)?  Am I going to be walking around at " attention " all

the

> > time or looking for any woman I can find  - actually I'm married . 

> >

> >

> > So, do you think that going to 550 made you feel like crud or do you think

your

> >

> > cruddy-feeling was from something else?

> >

> > Bill

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Its " Alpharetta Wellness Clinic " , the nurse practitioner's name is Pastorel.

Its at the intersection of Hwy 9 and Cumming Steet besides Duffy reality.

http://www.alpharettawellness.com/default.html

Hope this helps.

Joe

> > > > >

> > > > > It's all good

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[Guest guest]

So the T could be interacting with one of your meds. According to Dr. no,

the factors that affect libido are not only testosterone but estrogen, adrenal

function, thyroid, nervous system function, dopamine, insulin, nutrition, etc.

Sorry, I don't know which one it could be. You could try, like Phil said,

raising your dose and see if that helps, and if it doesn't, then go the other

way and lower your dose, or vice versa. Maybe do it before the weekend when you

don't have to go to work. I would think your condition would be very

distracting!

Barb

> > >

> > > That's what I was thinking too, that the T levels need to go

up.  What

> >I'm

> >

> > > experiencing though is keeping me from doing that; what I'm talking about

is

>

> > > that my oibido is through the roof and I have so many erections that I

can't

>

> > > sleep sometimes and my penis actually hurts (it aches) from being hard so

> >long

> >

> >

> > > (or maybe it's from being really hard regardless of how long it's that

> >way). 

> >

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > What's going to happen if I get the T numbers up (no pun intended) even

more

>

> > > (say to around 800)?  Am I going to be walking around at

" attention " all

> >the

> >

> > > time or looking for any woman I can find  - actually I'm married

. 

> > >

> > >

> > > So, do you think that going to 550 made you feel like crud or do you think

> >your

> >

> > >

> > > cruddy-feeling was from something else?

> > >

> > > Bill

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Thanks very much Joe: does this practice see men (web site seems geared to women

only)...EL

> > > > > >

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