Re: Tamoxifen and Androgel??

[Guest guest]

A few questions what time of the day did you do your labs. If it was in the

morning your low but most Dr.'s will not put you on TRT. The new Dr. you seen I

feel is not up on low Testosterone you just don't start men on TRT without

knowing why they are low. You might be able to get your levels up without TRT.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/90/4/2451

You don't do both Tamoxifen and Androgel at the same time one or the other. For

what I see in your labs if you get your Estradiol levels down your SHBG might

come down and your Total can go up some 200 to 300 Points with your Free T going

up to the top of the range. Higher levels of Estraidol in men like your self

have a lot of there Testosterone bound up due to the high SHBG.

Tamoxifen tries to get your Pituitary to tell your Testis to make more

Testosterone adding Androgel does the oppaset it shuts your Pituitary down from

sending this message. So one is cancleing out the other nuts.

If you can get some Arimidex and take .25 mgs everyday in time your Estradiol

levels will come down you can tell when this happens by your getting some strong

night time and morning wood this means you at your best levels. High Estradiol

levels also kill your sex life.

Your best bet would be to see a better Dr. see if your famly Dr. will work with

Dr. over the phone he can test and treat you doing this and your Family Dr.

will learn how to treat you and others on your dime.

www.allthingsmale.com

Dr. also has a forum there is a member you need to post to in a PM his nick

is " Hemochromatosis " tell him I sent you to talk to him.

http://www.musclechatroom.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=2

Here are some links to read about lower Estradiol in men.

http://www.medibolics.com/ArimidexBoostsTestosterone.htm

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2008/nov2008_Dangers-of-Excess-Estrogen-in-the-Ag\

ing-Male_01.htm

Also have you been tested for Klinefelters men with this problem have them

problem with feminine fat distribution (hips, thighs, chest)

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: watelifter <watelifter@...>

> Subject: Tamoxifen and Androgel??

>

> Date: Friday, July 2, 2010, 6:47 AM

> I am a 24 year old male with

> heriditary hemochromatosis (recently diagnosed) which has

> caused me troubling endocrine problems for the past couple

> years. I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's thyroiditis (.75mcg

> levo/day) last year, and have definite symptoms of

> hypogonadism including:

>

> feminine fat distribution (hips, thighs, chest)

> decrease in muscle mass

> reduced ejacualte volume and loss of sensitivity

> reduced libido

> chronic fatigue

> memory problems

>

> My total testosterone is normal but my free testosterone

> levels are borderline low with high SHBG:

>

> Total Testosterone: 445 (250-1150)

> Free Test % 1.2 (1.5-2.2) ***LOW==>High SHBG

> Free T calculated 50 pg/ml (35-155)

> Estradiol 42pg/ml (15-54)

>

>

> A few months later:

>

> Total T: Total T 489ng/dl

> Free T: 12.8ng/dl (9-30)

> SHBG 48 nmol/L (10-48)***High

> Estradiol 30 (20-40) (I question the validity of this

> estradiol assay)

>

>

> From what I have read, low normal free T levels  along

> with symptoms deserve a trial of testosterone. Besides, if

> my shbg was in the 20's, my total T would be about 330 for

> the same free T values.

>

> I finally went to a hormone specialist this week after

> months of dealing with incompetent endos who refused to help

> me with my problems. The HRT guy was somewhat disappointing

> though. He wants me to use:

>

> 2.5 grams androgel daily

> 20mg tamoxifen three times week

> Armour 120 MG day.

>

> This seems rather strange. The androgel and tamoxifen are

> both very low doses and this combination is unusual. I was

> hoping for a very basic TRT protocol of injections or gel

> along with HCG. He also denied my request to use cytomel/T4

> over Armour, which I thought would be better since people

> are having problems with the new Armour.

>

> I've read about other hemochromatosis patients having

> hypogonadism and feminization

(http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/anyone-have-low-t-134262483.ht\

ml#post597486).

> It seems they improved with higher than average doses of

> plain old testosterone.

>

> Should I follow this doctor's recommendations or find a new

> doc? Would I have more luck with a urologist than with a

> endo or HRT person? Thanks.

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the reply, Phil. Yes, the labs were done in the morning while

fasting. Thanks for the suggestion Phil. I may go ahead and try the arimidex. I

think I can convince my family doc to prescribe me some arimidex and test my

levels after a few weeks. I will not bother filling the tamoxifen and androgel

scripts.

I don't have kleinfelters. All of these problems came on suddenly last year. The

hemochromatosis must have done some damage to my HPTA axis. I just started

giving phlebotomies, so maybe that will help some.

I just left a message for Hemochromatosis at allthingsmale forum. I noticed that

there is another hemochromatosis afflicted guy over there, bryce720, who has

almost the exact same hormone profile as me (high SHBG, low normal free T

levels). He seems to have benefited from raising his free T levels up.

Thanks a lot, Phil. Knowing other guys with iron overload who are experiencing

similar problems will be very helpful in helping me find some answers. I

appreciate it.

>

> > From: watelifter <watelifter@...>

> > Subject: Tamoxifen and Androgel??

> >

> > Date: Friday, July 2, 2010, 6:47 AM

> > I am a 24 year old male with

> > heriditary hemochromatosis (recently diagnosed) which has

> > caused me troubling endocrine problems for the past couple

> > years. I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's thyroiditis (.75mcg

> > levo/day) last year, and have definite symptoms of

> > hypogonadism including:

> >

> > feminine fat distribution (hips, thighs, chest)

> > decrease in muscle mass

> > reduced ejacualte volume and loss of sensitivity

> > reduced libido

> > chronic fatigue

> > memory problems

> >

> > My total testosterone is normal but my free testosterone

> > levels are borderline low with high SHBG:

> >

> > Total Testosterone: 445 (250-1150)

> > Free Test % 1.2 (1.5-2.2) ***LOW==>High SHBG

> > Free T calculated 50 pg/ml (35-155)

> > Estradiol 42pg/ml (15-54)

> >

> >

> > A few months later:

> >

> > Total T: Total T 489ng/dl

> > Free T: 12.8ng/dl (9-30)

> > SHBG 48 nmol/L (10-48)***High

> > Estradiol 30 (20-40) (I question the validity of this

> > estradiol assay)

> >

> >

> > From what I have read, low normal free T levels  along

> > with symptoms deserve a trial of testosterone. Besides, if

> > my shbg was in the 20's, my total T would be about 330 for

> > the same free T values.

> >

> > I finally went to a hormone specialist this week after

> > months of dealing with incompetent endos who refused to help

> > me with my problems. The HRT guy was somewhat disappointing

> > though. He wants me to use:

> >

> > 2.5 grams androgel daily

> > 20mg tamoxifen three times week

> > Armour 120 MG day.

> >

> > This seems rather strange. The androgel and tamoxifen are

> > both very low doses and this combination is unusual. I was

> > hoping for a very basic TRT protocol of injections or gel

> > along with HCG. He also denied my request to use cytomel/T4

> > over Armour, which I thought would be better since people

> > are having problems with the new Armour.

> >

> > I've read about other hemochromatosis patients having

> > hypogonadism and feminization

(http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/anyone-have-low-t-134262483.ht\

ml#post597486).

> > It seems they improved with higher than average doses of

> > plain old testosterone.

> >

> > Should I follow this doctor's recommendations or find a new

> > doc? Would I have more luck with a urologist than with a

> > endo or HRT person? Thanks.

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Your welcome keep me in the loop how your doing and do post at Dr. s he gave

a guy today free info on doing a PCT I never seen him do this.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: watelifter <watelifter@...>

> Subject: Re: Tamoxifen and Androgel??

>

> Date: Friday, July 2, 2010, 12:11 PM

> Thanks for the reply, Phil. Yes, the

> labs were done in the morning while fasting. Thanks for the

> suggestion Phil. I may go ahead and try the arimidex. I

> think I can convince my family doc to prescribe me some

> arimidex and test my levels after a few weeks. I will not

> bother filling the tamoxifen and androgel scripts.

>

> I don't have kleinfelters. All of these problems came on

> suddenly last year. The hemochromatosis must have done some

> damage to my HPTA axis. I just started giving phlebotomies,

> so maybe that will help some.

>

> I just left a message for Hemochromatosis at allthingsmale

> forum. I noticed that there is another hemochromatosis

> afflicted guy over there, bryce720, who has almost the exact

> same hormone profile as me (high SHBG, low normal free T

> levels). He seems to have benefited from raising his free T

> levels up.

> Thanks a lot, Phil. Knowing other guys with iron overload

> who are experiencing similar problems will be very helpful

> in helping me find some answers. I appreciate it.

>

>

> >

> > > From: watelifter <watelifter@...>

> > > Subject: Tamoxifen and Androgel??

> > >

> > > Date: Friday, July 2, 2010, 6:47 AM

> > > I am a 24 year old male with

> > > heriditary hemochromatosis (recently diagnosed)

> which has

> > > caused me troubling endocrine problems for the

> past couple

> > > years. I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's

> thyroiditis (.75mcg

> > > levo/day) last year, and have definite symptoms

> of

> > > hypogonadism including:

> > >

> > > feminine fat distribution (hips, thighs, chest)

> > > decrease in muscle mass

> > > reduced ejacualte volume and loss of sensitivity

> > > reduced libido

> > > chronic fatigue

> > > memory problems

> > >

> > > My total testosterone is normal but my free

> testosterone

> > > levels are borderline low with high SHBG:

> > >

> > > Total Testosterone: 445 (250-1150)

> > > Free Test % 1.2 (1.5-2.2) ***LOW==>High SHBG

> > > Free T calculated 50 pg/ml (35-155)

> > > Estradiol 42pg/ml (15-54)

> > >

> > >

> > > A few months later:

> > >

> > > Total T: Total T 489ng/dl

> > > Free T: 12.8ng/dl (9-30)

> > > SHBG 48 nmol/L (10-48)***High

> > > Estradiol 30 (20-40) (I question the validity of

> this

> > > estradiol assay)

> > >

> > >

> > > From what I have read, low normal free T levels 

> along

> > > with symptoms deserve a trial of testosterone.

> Besides, if

> > > my shbg was in the 20's, my total T would be

> about 330 for

> > > the same free T values.

> > >

> > > I finally went to a hormone specialist this week

> after

> > > months of dealing with incompetent endos who

> refused to help

> > > me with my problems. The HRT guy was somewhat

> disappointing

> > > though. He wants me to use:

> > >

> > > 2.5 grams androgel daily

> > > 20mg tamoxifen three times week

> > > Armour 120 MG day.

> > >

> > > This seems rather strange. The androgel and

> tamoxifen are

> > > both very low doses and this combination is

> unusual. I was

> > > hoping for a very basic TRT protocol of

> injections or gel

> > > along with HCG. He also denied my request to use

> cytomel/T4

> > > over Armour, which I thought would be better

> since people

> > > are having problems with the new Armour.

> > >

> > > I've read about other hemochromatosis patients

> having

> > > hypogonadism and feminization

(http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/anyone-have-low-t-134262483.ht\

ml#post597486).

> > > It seems they improved with higher than average

> doses of

> > > plain old testosterone.

> > >

> > > Should I follow this doctor's recommendations or

> find a new

> > > doc? Would I have more luck with a urologist than

> with a

> > > endo or HRT person? Thanks.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >