Re: New to forums - Been on Testim for 13 days so far...

[Guest guest]

Hi griviere and Welcome,

I don't feel your Dr. is doing right by you first he did not try to find out why

your Testosterone is low. Then he put you on a starting dose of Testim for 4

weeks then your going to be off it 2 weeks by the time you do labs again. Am I

reading this right if I am this is nuts dam nuts.

You don't put men on TRT without trying to find out why they are low. If you do

you can't find out going on TRT shuts your brain down from sending the LH and

FSH messages to your testis from your brain that tells them to make

Testosterone.

Going on a starting dose of Testim you needed to test in 2 weeks to see if it's

working your levels as low as they are can go lower. Your brain is telling your

testis to make the T you had in your labs. Now your adding T to your body and

your brain will not tell your testis to make what you were making.

So stopping for 2 weeks your going to crash and burn feel worse. You need to

call him and tell him you heard and read this is not good to do put a men on TRT

then take him off it.

Go to www.allthingsmale.com and read TRT: A Recipe for Success in this are labs

you needed and why. Dr. puts this out there free for you and your Dr. He

is one of the best Male Hormone Dr.'s out there.

And yes you need your Estradiol E2 levels checked is they are to high or to low

it will kill your sex life and make you feel dam back even on TRT. And TRT can

drive up your E2 levels higher. We find men do best at a level that is about 20

pg/ml. We use Arimidex to keep this down most men keep there E2 in the sweet

spot taking .25 mgs of 1/4 of a pill every 2 to 3 days.

Here are some links for you to read so you can learn about this.

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=450553

http://www.griffinmedical.com/male_hormone_modulation_therapy.html

Most men don't do good on this dose of gel it's to low.

Here is a copy of a file I made about going on gels.

==================================================

Starting on Androgel or Testim.

Yes this happens a lot you start on a low starting dose 5 grams when your brain

sees the testosterone in your blood even just a little it slows down even stops

sending the LH and FSH message to your testis to make the Testosterone you were

making. So lets say your labs for Total T were 350 you add this dose of gel

your brain sees this and you lose the base level you had before the gel.

Now lets say you need more then 5 grams most do so now all your left with is

what the gel is doing so lets say it's doing 200 so you lost 150.

The reason you feel good is your levels go up that 200 the gel is doing in the

first 2 weeks so your levels go up to 550 in theory. The brain sees this and

you fall back.

Why can this happen it might be how your putting on the gel with Androgel you

need to spread it over your upper arms and shoulders and down your back as far

as you can reach this is half of your dose then do the other side. Just spread

it over the area but don't rub it in.

The other thing is it's not getting through your skin good so you need more. If

you have a thyroid problem your skin will become thicker and gels and creams

don't get through the skin and you need to switch to shots.

I tell men when they go on Gels to retest in 2 weeks because you can end up

feeling worse. Most men just need more gel. Dr.'s that tell men to go on 5

grams of gel and come back in 8 to 12 weeks for labs don't know much about the

use of gels. Dr.'s that treat a lot of men for low T on gels see this happen

and test them again in 2 weeks.

When you go to do labs get up and shower that morning go do your labs and then

put in the gel after your blood test so you don’t spike up your labs. If you

can’t do labs in the morning shower put on the gel but don’t get any gel on

the spot they take the blood from. Do your labs about 6 hrs later.

Call your Dr. and tell him this and that your not feeling good you were but fell

back.

-------------------------------------------------

This is a copy on E2 by a mod at Dr. 's forum.

===================================================

E2 Sweet Spot by Chilln at Dr. ’s forum.

continued from post #8 in this thread, ie:

http://musclechatroom.com/forum/show...14 & postcount=8

PLAN A:

The healthiest method of optimizing E2 levels is to simply minimize your T

boost, to the point which is " just above " your minimum acceptable level of

damage tolerance.

###

* If you exercise very hard, you're going to need a lot more T than if you

exercise very little.

* Reducing your T boosters will reduce both your maximum T levels, and your

minimum T levels. This works if you metabolize T relatively slowly, in which

case your minimum T levels will not be too low.

* But if you metabolize T very quickly, then you may find that this method lets

your minimum T levels drop too low.

* As you and your medical professional adviser gradually lower your maximum T

levels, your E2 levels will also reduce, and hopefully you will find a balance

between T and E2 which suits your sexual performance goals.

* If you discover that by using this method, you can occasionally experience

optimum sexual performance, then your ability to maintain that for extended

periods is dependant on how stable your E2 levels are, and the stability of your

E2 levels depends on minimizing your maximum T levels, and ensuring your minimum

T levels are still adequate (no sore joints, no sore back, no stiff neck, don't

catch flu quickly).

* Keep gradually reducing your maximum T levels, looking for your E2 sweet spot,

until eventually your minimum T levels are too low during the day / week (ie:

sore joints, or sore back, or you catch a flu quickly).

###

If you haven't experienced a sweet spot for your E2 usign this method, then you

need to consider PLAN B.

PLAN B:

Always attempt PLAN B if PLAN A fails to deliver the goods. Don't skip PLAN B.

For those who supplement using transdermal T, reduce your maximum daily T levels

by taking less-than-half-of-your-existing-daily-dosage-of-T, twice per day.

For those who supplement using injected T ester (eg: T cypionate), reduce your

maximum weekly T levels by either:

a) taking less-than-half-of-your-existing-weekly-dosage-of-T, twice-per-week,

or

taking less-than-3/7-of-your-existing-weekly-dosage-of-T, once-every-3-days.

###

* This will definitely reduce your peak T levels, while still ensuring that your

minimum T levels do not drop.

* The additional reduction in max T levels, without reducing your minimum T

levels, will further allow your E2 levels to reduce, and hopefully that's enough

to find your E2 sweet spot.

* The equivalent mechanism for those who supplement using injected T esters (eg:

testosterone cypionate) is to take

less-than-half-of-your-existing-weekly-dosage-of-T, twice per week, or

less-than-3/7-of-your-existing-weekly-dosage-of-T, every 3 days.

* As you and your medical professional adviser gradually lower your maximum T

levels, your E2 levels will also reduce, and hopefully you will find a balance

between T and E2 which suits your sexual performance goals.

* If you discover that by using this method, you can occasionally experience

optimum sexual performance, then your ability to maintain that for extended

periods is dependant on how stable your E2 levels are, and the stability of your

E2 levels depends on your maximum T levels (not your minimum T levels).

###

But you may discover that you still cannot find a sweet spot for both T and E2

using just this method. In which case consider PLAN C.

PLAN C: ( OPTIONAL)

This option is only available if you initially started out on a transdermal

formulation of T.

Switch from using a transdermal formulation of T to using an injected form of T

ester - eg: " T cyp " (testosterone cypionate).

Initially try once-per-week dosing, but switch to twice-per-week, or

once-every-3-days dosing if you need to lower E2 levels even further.

###

* Our body makes E2 out of T, using the " aromatase " enzyme, and we have high

concentrations of aromatase enzymes in our subcutaneous body fat.

* The transdermal forumations of T convert into more E2 and DHT than the

injected T esters, because the transdermal formulations place the T in close

proximity to the large concentration of aromatase enzymes in our body fat, while

the injected T esters are designed for intra-muscular injection (not

subcutanoues) and therefore the T is placed a long long way from those aromate

enzymes in our body fat.

* After switching from transdermal T to injected T esters, your E2 levels should

also reduce, and hopefully you will find a balance between T and E2 which suits

your sexual performance goals, but the stability of your E2 levels still depends

on your maximum T levels (not your minimum T levels).

* Initially try once-per-week dosing as discussed in PLAN B for T cyp users.

* If using once-per-week dosing continues to result in too high maximum levels

of T, while you are trying to ensure that your minimum T throughout the week is

still above your minimum requirements for T, then you will need to add back the

PLAN B multiple-times-per-week dosing - even for T cyp.

###

But you may discover that you still cannot find a sweet spot for both T and E2

using just this method. In which case consider PLAN D.

PLAN D:

This alternative is to adjust both your T and HCG dosages, and use arimidex /

anastrozole to optimize E2.

But you should still be implementing the multiple-times-per-day dosing

methodology from PLAN B and the final stage of PLAN C

###

* This is not a trivial concept. You will be messing with T and E2 levels for

months.

* The most important concept with arimidex / anastrozole supplementtion is very

reliable and accurate dosing. I very strongly recommend that you and your

medical professional adviser adopt a more frequent dosing of arimidex /

anastrozole than once-every-two-days, ie: by adopting daily dosing of arimidex /

anastrozole, using small-but-reliable doses of compounded arimidex /

anastrozole.

....This is detailed here:

....http://musclechatroom.com/forum/show...6 & postcount=31

* You may find that you need 0.1mg per day, or 0.15mg per day, or 0.2mg per day,

instead of 0.5mg every second day.

* After adjusting arimidex dosages and T dosages, you will definitely discover

occasional optimum T versus E2 balance, and with that you will achieve

occasional optimum sexual performance. Whether you can maintain that optimum

sexual performance for the majority of each week is dependant on how stable your

E2 levels are, and the stability of your E2 levels depends on your maximum T

levels.

###

But you may discover that you still cannot find a sweet spot for both T and E2

using just this method. In which case consider PLAN E.

PLAN E:

Boost T even less than before, and boost GH to provide the additional damage

tolerance lost from the reduction in T levels.

But continue to maintain using the multiple-times-per-day dosing methodology

used in the final stages of the previous plans.

But back off the arimidex / anastrozole completely.

###

* Both T and GH trigger many of the same repairs (not 100% overlap) so you can

safely reduce T, if you boost GH.

* By further reducing your peak T levels, you further reduce the rate of

conversion of T into E2. This assumes you reduce your supplemental T dosage when

you add in the boost to GH.

* By further reducing your peak T levels, your T and E2 levels will be more

stable, and you'll find it easier to find your sweet spot for E2.

But you may discover that you still cannot find a sweet spot for both T and E2

using just this method. In which case consider PLAN F.

PLAN F

This is simply the combination of PLAN E (GH boost, multiple times-per-day/week

dosing) plus compounded arimidex / anastrozole.

###

* This should only be necessary if:

....a) you haven't been able to afford sufficient recombinant GH to allow you to

reduce your T levels by an adequate amount.

or

.... your can only afford GHRP-6, not recombinant GH, and your body's response

to the GHRP-6 is inadequate amounts of GH.

________________________________________

Last edited by chilln; 16 Hours Ago at 07:12 PM.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: qriviere <qriviere@...>

> Subject: New to forums - Been on Testim for 13 days so far...

>

> Date: Tuesday, May 18, 2010, 8:35 PM

> Hello,

>

> So...I've been trying to find as much information as

> possible to learn more about this condition as it supposedly

> " fairly common " but clearly most men wont both speaking

> about it...

>

> I was diagnosed with Low Testosterone a little over 3 weeks

> ago, although looking back on my life (im not almost 25),

> I've had it probably since I was about 12-14 as I think it

> occurred during Puberty for me.

>

> Blood work was as follows

>

> 2 Testosterone Tests were done

>

>

> Testosterone Total 138 (Ref range of 250-1100 ng/dL)

> Testosterone Total 127 (Ref range of 241-827 ng/dL)

>

> Testosterone Free 39.9 (Ref range of 46.0-224.0 pg/mL)

> Testo, Bioavailable 82.0 (Ref range of 110.0-575.0 ng/dL)

>

>

> Those were the only things that came up abnormal. A TSH,

> SHBG, T-3, T-4, CBC and Basic Metabolic Panel were done as

> well (all normal)

>

> Although the Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) was in

> range it was an 8 with a Ref range of 7-49 nmol/L

>

>

>

> Granted i've been on Testim gel 50mg tube for almost 2

> weeks, I have noticed less fluid retention, but i'm still

> tired and fatigued to hell still.

>

> I'm wondering how long can I expect this to change...I just

> want some energy to where I can start exercising. I still

> have daytime sleepiness which I can actually sleep alot

> better than previously which is good, I just cant seem to

> get much done. Especially with the aches and pains I have

> constantly especially in my legs, its just hell...it really

> is...

>

> Is there any specific time frames I should be aware of when

> to expect things to change? I've been looking at prognosis

> and the after benefits of the TRT treatment, but just seems

> so conflicting.

>

> I know its different for everyone but I was just looking

> for a general ball park.

>

> Another concern I have is, the doctor only prescribed a

> month's supply of the Testim. I have to get blood work done

> in 2 more weeks, and I will be off of the meds for 2 weeks

> as that is when I will see him again (assuming he is

> probably going to up my dosage). Is there a particular

> reason for the 2 week gap?

>

> Currently the doctor has me only using the Testim with no

> other supplementation or pills. I read that some people

> actually have to take anti-estrogen blockers, should I bring

> this up with him?

>

> He's a very knowledgable doctor, and I am grateful that he

> has finally found out what was wrong with me as i've been

> suffering for too many years with this, the worst being the

> last 2 years. In the past 10 months alone I've gained over

> 60 pounds because my weight kept going up even though I

> always watched what I eat and exercised as much as I can,

> but currently I am unable to do so at all. Even walking

> causes my feet to swell, my legs cramp and I get bruises on

> them as well.

>

> Any info is much appreciated. I just joined today so ill be

> skimming the forums and reading up on things because I like

> to stay informed.

>

> Thanks for reading and anything you can help with or

> contribute is much appreciated.

>

> If you need me to post additional testing information just

> ask, and I can post what information I do have.

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Like most drs they never look for the cause and automatically jump on the TRT

method which can shut you down even more then what you really are. Dr needs to

look at the obviously which means your thyroid is out of balance and not knowing

your history or anything like that most likely you have been through a dramitic

time in your life or may be you simple had a cold, hidden infections, or just

too much stress to deal with at one time. Starting a 24 year old on TRT is a

complete ass move because the dr was just too lazy to look at you from a

holistic approach. Our patients are examined from several angles focusing on

root cause. If a 24 year old came in I would do a detailed medical history with

asking a seriousl of question to pin point why this is occuring. most likely it

was stress induced like 80% of the people with low T out there. Through proper

manipulation of thyroid and adrenals many young people we have worked with are

not on TRT and have optimal hormones level. TRT is a stop gap but not a long

term solution. For 24 year old one needs to look at pituary issues, and try to

see if the problem is the signal as well as an MRI needs to be done to rule this

out. If you continue with this dr you are properly going to going down the

wrong root. If interestest please PM me for contact information.

>

> Hello,

>

> So...I've been trying to find as much information as possible to learn more

about this condition as it supposedly " fairly common " but clearly most men wont

both speaking about it...

>

> I was diagnosed with Low Testosterone a little over 3 weeks ago, although

looking back on my life (im not almost 25), I've had it probably since I was

about 12-14 as I think it occurred during Puberty for me.

>

> Blood work was as follows

>

> 2 Testosterone Tests were done

>

>

> Testosterone Total 138 (Ref range of 250-1100 ng/dL)

> Testosterone Total 127 (Ref range of 241-827 ng/dL)

>

> Testosterone Free 39.9 (Ref range of 46.0-224.0 pg/mL)

> Testo, Bioavailable 82.0 (Ref range of 110.0-575.0 ng/dL)

>

>

> Those were the only things that came up abnormal. A TSH, SHBG, T-3, T-4, CBC

and Basic Metabolic Panel were done as well (all normal)

>

> Although the Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) was in range it was an 8 with

a Ref range of 7-49 nmol/L

>

>

>

> Granted i've been on Testim gel 50mg tube for almost 2 weeks, I have noticed

less fluid retention, but i'm still tired and fatigued to hell still.

>

> I'm wondering how long can I expect this to change...I just want some energy

to where I can start exercising. I still have daytime sleepiness which I can

actually sleep alot better than previously which is good, I just cant seem to

get much done. Especially with the aches and pains I have constantly especially

in my legs, its just hell...it really is...

>

> Is there any specific time frames I should be aware of when to expect things

to change? I've been looking at prognosis and the after benefits of the TRT

treatment, but just seems so conflicting.

>

> I know its different for everyone but I was just looking for a general ball

park.

>

> Another concern I have is, the doctor only prescribed a month's supply of the

Testim. I have to get blood work done in 2 more weeks, and I will be off of the

meds for 2 weeks as that is when I will see him again (assuming he is probably

going to up my dosage). Is there a particular reason for the 2 week gap?

>

> Currently the doctor has me only using the Testim with no other

supplementation or pills. I read that some people actually have to take

anti-estrogen blockers, should I bring this up with him?

>

> He's a very knowledgable doctor, and I am grateful that he has finally found

out what was wrong with me as i've been suffering for too many years with this,

the worst being the last 2 years. In the past 10 months alone I've gained over

60 pounds because my weight kept going up even though I always watched what I

eat and exercised as much as I can, but currently I am unable to do so at all.

Even walking causes my feet to swell, my legs cramp and I get bruises on them as

well.

>

> Any info is much appreciated. I just joined today so ill be skimming the

forums and reading up on things because I like to stay informed.

>

> Thanks for reading and anything you can help with or contribute is much

appreciated.

>

> If you need me to post additional testing information just ask, and I can post

what information I do have.

>

[Guest guest]

Hard he can't PM you here give your Email.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: hardasnails1973 <hardasnails1973@...>

> Subject: Re: New to forums - Been on Testim for 13 days so

far...

>

> Date: Wednesday, May 19, 2010, 10:56 AM

> Like most drs they never look for the

> cause and automatically jump on the TRT method which can

> shut you down even more then what you really are.  Dr

> needs to look at the obviously which means your thyroid is

> out of balance and not knowing your history or anything like

> that most likely you have been through a dramitic time in

> your life or may be you simple had a cold, hidden

> infections, or just too much stress to deal with at one

> time.  Starting a 24 year old on TRT is a complete ass

> move because the dr was just too lazy to look at you from a

> holistic approach.  Our patients are examined from

> several angles focusing on root cause. If a 24 year old came

> in I would do a detailed medical history with asking a

> seriousl of question to pin point why this is

> occuring.  most likely it was stress induced like 80%

> of the people with low T out there.  Through proper

> manipulation of thyroid and adrenals many young people we

> have worked with are not  on TRT and have optimal

> hormones level. TRT is a stop gap but not a long term

> solution.  For 24 year old one needs to look at pituary

> issues, and try to see if the problem is the signal as well

> as an MRI needs to be done to rule this out.  If you

> continue with this dr you are properly going to going down

> the wrong root.  If interestest please PM me for

> contact information. 

>

>

> >

> > Hello,

> >

> > So...I've been trying to find as much information as

> possible to learn more about this condition as it supposedly

> " fairly common " but clearly most men wont both speaking

> about it...

> >

> > I was diagnosed with Low Testosterone a little over 3

> weeks ago, although looking back on my life (im not almost

> 25), I've had it probably since I was about 12-14 as I think

> it occurred during Puberty for me.

> >

> > Blood work was as follows

> >

> > 2 Testosterone Tests were done

> >

> >

> > Testosterone Total 138 (Ref range of 250-1100 ng/dL)

> > Testosterone Total 127 (Ref range of 241-827 ng/dL)

> >

> > Testosterone Free 39.9 (Ref range of 46.0-224.0

> pg/mL)

> > Testo, Bioavailable 82.0 (Ref range of 110.0-575.0

> ng/dL)

> >

> >

> > Those were the only things that came up abnormal. A

> TSH, SHBG, T-3, T-4, CBC and Basic Metabolic Panel were done

> as well (all normal)

> >

> > Although the Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) was

> in range it was an 8 with a Ref range of 7-49 nmol/L

> >

> >

> >

> > Granted i've been on Testim gel 50mg tube for almost 2

> weeks, I have noticed less fluid retention, but i'm still

> tired and fatigued to hell still.

> >

> > I'm wondering how long can I expect this to change...I

> just want some energy to where I can start exercising. I

> still have daytime sleepiness which I can actually sleep

> alot better than previously which is good, I just cant seem

> to get much done. Especially with the aches and pains I have

> constantly especially in my legs, its just hell...it really

> is...

> >

> > Is there any specific time frames I should be aware of

> when to expect things to change? I've been looking at

> prognosis and the after benefits of the TRT treatment, but

> just seems so conflicting.

> >

> > I know its different for everyone but I was just

> looking for a general ball park.

> >

> > Another concern I have is, the doctor only prescribed

> a month's supply of the Testim. I have to get blood work

> done in 2 more weeks, and I will be off of the meds for 2

> weeks as that is when I will see him again (assuming he is

> probably going to up my dosage). Is there a particular

> reason for the 2 week gap?

> >

> > Currently the doctor has me only using the Testim with

> no other supplementation or pills. I read that some people

> actually have to take anti-estrogen blockers, should I bring

> this up with him?

> >

> > He's a very knowledgable doctor, and I am grateful

> that he has finally found out what was wrong with me as i've

> been suffering for too many years with this, the worst being

> the last 2 years. In the past 10 months alone I've gained

> over 60 pounds because my weight kept going up even though I

> always watched what I eat and exercised as much as I can,

> but currently I am unable to do so at all. Even walking

> causes my feet to swell, my legs cramp and I get bruises on

> them as well.

> >

> > Any info is much appreciated. I just joined today so

> ill be skimming the forums and reading up on things because

> I like to stay informed.

> >

> > Thanks for reading and anything you can help with or

> contribute is much appreciated.

> >

> > If you need me to post additional testing information

> just ask, and I can post what information I do have.

> >

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

What is your TSH?

They thought mine was " normal " because the labcorp report said it was. Turned

out someone with knowledge recognized it as high making me hypothyroid.

>

> Hello,

>

> So...I've been trying to find as much information as possible to learn more

about this condition as it supposedly " fairly common " but clearly most men wont

both speaking about it...

>

> I was diagnosed with Low Testosterone a little over 3 weeks ago, although

looking back on my life (im not almost 25), I've had it probably since I was

about 12-14 as I think it occurred during Puberty for me.

>

> Blood work was as follows

>

> 2 Testosterone Tests were done

>

>

> Testosterone Total 138 (Ref range of 250-1100 ng/dL)

> Testosterone Total 127 (Ref range of 241-827 ng/dL)

>

> Testosterone Free 39.9 (Ref range of 46.0-224.0 pg/mL)

> Testo, Bioavailable 82.0 (Ref range of 110.0-575.0 ng/dL)

>

>

> Those were the only things that came up abnormal. A TSH, SHBG, T-3, T-4, CBC

and Basic Metabolic Panel were done as well (all normal)

>

> Although the Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) was in range it was an 8 with

a Ref range of 7-49 nmol/L

>

>

>

> Granted i've been on Testim gel 50mg tube for almost 2 weeks, I have noticed

less fluid retention, but i'm still tired and fatigued to hell still.

>

> I'm wondering how long can I expect this to change...I just want some energy

to where I can start exercising. I still have daytime sleepiness which I can

actually sleep alot better than previously which is good, I just cant seem to

get much done. Especially with the aches and pains I have constantly especially

in my legs, its just hell...it really is...

>

> Is there any specific time frames I should be aware of when to expect things

to change? I've been looking at prognosis and the after benefits of the TRT

treatment, but just seems so conflicting.

>

> I know its different for everyone but I was just looking for a general ball

park.

>

> Another concern I have is, the doctor only prescribed a month's supply of the

Testim. I have to get blood work done in 2 more weeks, and I will be off of the

meds for 2 weeks as that is when I will see him again (assuming he is probably

going to up my dosage). Is there a particular reason for the 2 week gap?

>

> Currently the doctor has me only using the Testim with no other

supplementation or pills. I read that some people actually have to take

anti-estrogen blockers, should I bring this up with him?

>

> He's a very knowledgable doctor, and I am grateful that he has finally found

out what was wrong with me as i've been suffering for too many years with this,

the worst being the last 2 years. In the past 10 months alone I've gained over

60 pounds because my weight kept going up even though I always watched what I

eat and exercised as much as I can, but currently I am unable to do so at all.

Even walking causes my feet to swell, my legs cramp and I get bruises on them as

well.

>

> Any info is much appreciated. I just joined today so ill be skimming the

forums and reading up on things because I like to stay informed.

>

> Thanks for reading and anything you can help with or contribute is much

appreciated.

>

> If you need me to post additional testing information just ask, and I can post

what information I do have.

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you all for the feedback, its much appreciated. I just called the doctors

office and going to see if I can see him sooner and also get the blood work done

asap as today marks the 2 week point.

As for additional testing information, i'll post it here.

Albumin, Serum 4.5 (Ref range 3.6-5.1 g/dL)

T3 Uptake 30 (Ref range 22-35%)

T4 (Thyroxine) 8.2 (Ref range 4.5-12.5 mcg/dL)

T3 Total (Triiodothyronine) 112 (Ref range 76-181 ng/dL)

TSH 2.7 (Ref range 0.40-4.50 mIU/L)

Basic Metabolic Panel

Sodium 142 (Ref range 135-146 mmol/L)

Potassium 4.2 (Ref range 3.5-5.3 mmol/L)

Chloride 107 (Ref range 98-110 mmol/L)

Carbon Dioxide 26 (Ref range 21-33 mmol/L)

Urea Nitrogen, Blood (BUN) 16 (Ref range 7-25 mg/dL)

Creatinine 0.98 (Ref range 0.80-1.30 mg/dL)

Glucose 76 (Ref range 65-99 mg/dL)

Calcium 9.1 (Ref range 8.6-10.2 mg/dL)

GGT 55 (Ref range 3-70 U/L)

ALT (SGPT) 47 (Ref range 9-60 U/L)

CBC With Differential (Automated)

White Blood Count 6.8 (Ref range 3.8-10.8 Thousand/uL)

Red Blood Count 5.33 (Ref range 4.20-5.80 Million/uL)

Hemoglobin 16.3 (Ref range 13.2-17.1 g/dL)

Hematocrit 47.8 (Ref range 38.5-50.0 %)

MCV 90 (Ref range 80.0-100.0 fL)

MCH 30.5 (Ref range 27.0-33.0 pg)

MCHC 34.0 (Ref range 32.0-36.0 g/dL)

Red Cell Dist. Width 12.7 (Ref range 11.0-15.0 %)

DIFFERENTIAL TYPE AUTO

Neutrophils 56 (Ref range 45-75%)

Lymphocytes 32 (Ref range 20-45%)

Monocytes 8 (Ref range 1-13%)

Eosinophils 4 (Ref range 0-6%)

Basophils 1 (Ref range 0-2%)

Neutrophils (ABS Value) 3808 (Ref range 1500-7800 Cells/mcL)

Lymphocytes (ABS Value) 2176 (Ref range 850-3900 Cells/mcL)

Monocytes (ABS Value) 544 (Ref range 200-950 Cells/mcL)

Eosionophils (ABS Value) 272 (Ref range 15-500 Cells/mcL)

Basophils (ABS Value) 68 (Ref range 0-200 Cells/mcL)

Platelet Count 242 (Ref range 140-400 Thousand/uL)

Sedimentation Rate (ESR) 2 (Ref range 0-15 mm/h)

That's currently all the lab work I have at the moment, as I always make sure I

get a copy of the results for home medical files.

I had to leave a message with my Physicians Medical Assistant who will call me

back.

[Guest guest]

Thinking my Estrogen might possibly be too high or possibly Estrogen dominant?

I haven't had my E2 or anything tested yet, which I will be calling my doctors

office tomorrow to see if I can get that done and possible get on some sort of

Estrogen Blocker.

I've been on Testim for slightly over 2 weeks...and to me seems like my fatigue

is about the same as it was when I first started.

I lost some water retention, but I still have it, I guess you could say mildly?

I havent been diagnosed with the gynecomastia yet, but I do have it. I've had it

since puberty, and within the past 10 months it has grown quite a bit, but then

again my weight had ballooned also, over nearly 70ish pounds.

Nipples occasionally with be hard, and they are becoming sensitive now and then.

My nipples are actually inverted as well too, they have been that way since I

hit puberty.

I've been getting some really bad headaches lately as well. A few months ago I

had gotten them for years but maybe 1-2 max per month. Now I get them maybe 3-5

times a week. It has been the worst for the past 3 days.

My knees down basically cramp and hurt pretty bad, could be from the excess

weight, but I think its from the fatigue.

I still have a sex drive, and spontaneous erections, today alone its like ive

been a sex fiend, had sex 3 times today and apparently im alot more hard than i

have been for a while.

Any idea what could be going on? Just not quite sure.

I'm guessing I should ask the doctor about an anti-estrogen and upping my

meds/getting some lab work done, or even switching to Test injections. My

insurance covers Testim, Androgel, Androderm, and Test Enanthate. And I know

they cover Arimidex as well. Not sure if there is anything else I should bring

up to my doctor or his assistant, any other help over advice would be much

appreciated.

Thanks!

[Guest guest]

Most Dr.'s put men on TRT with out looking for the reasion why they are low.

One needs to know why are they Primary meaning there Testis don't work good. Or

are they Secodary meaning they have a Pituitary Problem. But then there is a

huge amount of things that can go wrong that will lower a mans T levels and if

your Dr. finds out what this is and treats it your levels can come back up.

Men starting on Gels start on a low starting dose 5 grams and need to be tested

in 2 weeks to tell if it is working. Going on any kind of TRT shuts down the

brain from telling your Testis to make more so you can end up lower then you

started going on this low dose of gel.

Also some men have a Thyroid Problem this can make your skin thicker and gels

don't get through your skin and your levels don't come up. You start to feel

worse.

The following is just a small amout of things that can lower your T levels. From

this link.

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=450553

==================================================

According to the Great Smokies Diagnostic Lab, these are the causes of

hypogonadism:

chronic/systemic illness

surgery

chemotherapy

infections

premature aging

testicular trauma

stress

Kleinfelter's syndrome

autoimmune damage

tobacco and alcohol

sleep apnea

excessive heat

obesity

hypercortisolism

medications

hyperthyroidism

malnutrition

====================================================

Some men that do gels the T going through there skin dose not support there

joints and muscles and they end you having pain. I can't do gels this happened

to me I got so bad I was house bound for yrs on gels. The day I switched to

shots and did my first shot my pain was less in 3 weeks I was out walking and

back in the gym.

Go to www.allthingsmale.com and read TRT: A Recipe for Success in this are labs

you need and why.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Quinton <daqman247@...>

> Subject: Re: New to forums - Been on Testim for 13 days so

far...

>

> Date: Friday, May 21, 2010, 12:11 AM

> Thinking my Estrogen might possibly

> be too high or possibly Estrogen dominant?

>

> I haven't had my E2 or anything tested yet, which I will be

> calling my doctors office tomorrow to see if I can get that

> done and possible get on some sort of Estrogen Blocker.

>

> I've been on Testim for slightly over 2 weeks...and to me

> seems like my fatigue is about the same as it was when I

> first started.

>

> I lost some water retention, but I still have it, I guess

> you could say mildly?

>

> I havent been diagnosed with the gynecomastia yet, but I do

> have it. I've had it since puberty, and within the past 10

> months it has grown quite a bit, but then again my weight

> had ballooned also, over nearly 70ish pounds.

>

> Nipples occasionally with be hard, and they are becoming

> sensitive now and then. My nipples are actually inverted as

> well too, they have been that way since I hit puberty.

>

> I've been getting some really bad headaches lately as well.

> A few months ago I had gotten them for years but maybe 1-2

> max per month. Now I get them maybe 3-5 times a week. It has

> been the worst for the past 3 days.

>

> My knees down basically cramp and hurt pretty bad, could be

> from the excess weight, but I think its from the fatigue.

>

> I still have a sex drive, and spontaneous erections, today

> alone its like ive been a sex fiend, had sex 3 times today

> and apparently im alot more hard than i have been for a

> while.

>

> Any idea what could be going on? Just not quite sure.

>

> I'm guessing I should ask the doctor about an anti-estrogen

> and upping my meds/getting some lab work done, or even

> switching to Test injections. My insurance covers Testim,

> Androgel, Androderm, and Test Enanthate. And I know they

> cover Arimidex as well. Not sure if there is anything else I

> should bring up to my doctor or his assistant, any other

> help over advice would be much appreciated.

>

> Thanks!

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well, got in touch with the doctors office, and pretty much have to go see them

next week.

Highly thinking of just going on shots instead of the gels as seems most people

here have issues with gels. It seemed more convenient for me because I cant

stand needles personally, but giving them to someone else I have never had an

issue with as I used to be a paramedic.

Trying to line up all my questions and concerns regarding where to go and what

to ask besides the main question of WHY do I have Hypogonadism. Guess i wont

know until I go off all the meds for a certain amount of time to find out.

>

> > From: Quinton <daqman247@...>

> > Subject: Re: New to forums - Been on Testim for 13 days so

far...

> >

> > Date: Friday, May 21, 2010, 12:11 AM

> > Thinking my Estrogen might possibly

> > be too high or possibly Estrogen dominant?

> >

> > I haven't had my E2 or anything tested yet, which I will be

> > calling my doctors office tomorrow to see if I can get that

> > done and possible get on some sort of Estrogen Blocker.

> >

> > I've been on Testim for slightly over 2 weeks...and to me

> > seems like my fatigue is about the same as it was when I

> > first started.

> >

> > I lost some water retention, but I still have it, I guess

> > you could say mildly?

> >

> > I havent been diagnosed with the gynecomastia yet, but I do

> > have it. I've had it since puberty, and within the past 10

> > months it has grown quite a bit, but then again my weight

> > had ballooned also, over nearly 70ish pounds.

> >

> > Nipples occasionally with be hard, and they are becoming

> > sensitive now and then. My nipples are actually inverted as

> > well too, they have been that way since I hit puberty.

> >

> > I've been getting some really bad headaches lately as well.

> > A few months ago I had gotten them for years but maybe 1-2

> > max per month. Now I get them maybe 3-5 times a week. It has

> > been the worst for the past 3 days.

> >

> > My knees down basically cramp and hurt pretty bad, could be

> > from the excess weight, but I think its from the fatigue.

> >

> > I still have a sex drive, and spontaneous erections, today

> > alone its like ive been a sex fiend, had sex 3 times today

> > and apparently im alot more hard than i have been for a

> > while.

> >

> > Any idea what could be going on? Just not quite sure.

> >

> > I'm guessing I should ask the doctor about an anti-estrogen

> > and upping my meds/getting some lab work done, or even

> > switching to Test injections. My insurance covers Testim,

> > Androgel, Androderm, and Test Enanthate. And I know they

> > cover Arimidex as well. Not sure if there is anything else I

> > should bring up to my doctor or his assistant, any other

> > help over advice would be much appreciated.

> >

> > Thanks!

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

If you have only been on Testim less then 4 weeks you might be able to stop it

and go back to where you were. If not just do an HCG or Clomid Stim. Test read

this link.

http://www.aace.com/pub/pdf/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf

Doing one of them tests will tell you if your Testis work and it's your

Pituitary or your Secondary. If they don't work your Testis don't make enough

at this point it all your going to figure out because you have been on TRT and

you are now shut down.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Quinton <daqman247@...>

> Subject: Re: New to forums - Been on Testim for 13 days so

far...

>

> Date: Friday, May 21, 2010, 2:39 PM

> Well, got in touch with the doctors

> office, and pretty much have to go see them next week.

>

> Highly thinking of just going on shots instead of the gels

> as seems most people here have issues with gels. It seemed

> more convenient for me because I cant stand needles

> personally, but giving them to someone else I have never had

> an issue with as I used to be a paramedic.

>

> Trying to line up all my questions and concerns regarding

> where to go and what to ask besides the main question of WHY

> do I have Hypogonadism. Guess i wont know until I go off all

> the meds for a certain amount of time to find out.

>

>

> >

> > > From: Quinton <daqman247@...>

> > > Subject: Re: New to forums - Been

> on Testim for 13 days so far...

> > >

> > > Date: Friday, May 21, 2010, 12:11 AM

> > > Thinking my Estrogen might possibly

> > > be too high or possibly Estrogen dominant?

> > >

> > > I haven't had my E2 or anything tested yet, which

> I will be

> > > calling my doctors office tomorrow to see if I

> can get that

> > > done and possible get on some sort of Estrogen

> Blocker.

> > >

> > > I've been on Testim for slightly over 2

> weeks...and to me

> > > seems like my fatigue is about the same as it was

> when I

> > > first started.

> > >

> > > I lost some water retention, but I still have it,

> I guess

> > > you could say mildly?

> > >

> > > I havent been diagnosed with the gynecomastia

> yet, but I do

> > > have it. I've had it since puberty, and within

> the past 10

> > > months it has grown quite a bit, but then again

> my weight

> > > had ballooned also, over nearly 70ish pounds.

> > >

> > > Nipples occasionally with be hard, and they are

> becoming

> > > sensitive now and then. My nipples are actually

> inverted as

> > > well too, they have been that way since I hit

> puberty.

> > >

> > > I've been getting some really bad headaches

> lately as well.

> > > A few months ago I had gotten them for years but

> maybe 1-2

> > > max per month. Now I get them maybe 3-5 times a

> week. It has

> > > been the worst for the past 3 days.

> > >

> > > My knees down basically cramp and hurt pretty

> bad, could be

> > > from the excess weight, but I think its from the

> fatigue.

> > >

> > > I still have a sex drive, and spontaneous

> erections, today

> > > alone its like ive been a sex fiend, had sex 3

> times today

> > > and apparently im alot more hard than i have been

> for a

> > > while.

> > >

> > > Any idea what could be going on? Just not quite

> sure.

> > >

> > > I'm guessing I should ask the doctor about an

> anti-estrogen

> > > and upping my meds/getting some lab work done, or

> even

> > > switching to Test injections. My insurance covers

> Testim,

> > > Androgel, Androderm, and Test Enanthate. And I

> know they

> > > cover Arimidex as well. Not sure if there is

> anything else I

> > > should bring up to my doctor or his assistant,

> any other

> > > help over advice would be much appreciated.

> > >

> > > Thanks!

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Seems I might have sleep apnea as it was brought to my attention.

It would explain the sore throats i've had for many years since I was in my

teens.

What is the process they go through dealing with both Sleep Apnea and Low T?

From my understand what I have read so far, it seems both are related to each

other.

But from what I have read, it seems like its the whole Chicken and Egg

dilema....

Most people are saying that once the sleep apnea does get fixed that it will

only boost my testosterone levels by 10% at max, and sometimes not at all...

I am wondering if I will have to stop TRT completely just to correct the Sleep

Apnea first...

Just trying to figure out all the options and choices I may have in this, I go

see the doctor again this week...

If I do have sleep apnea as I was told from a non medical professional, the TRT

could explain why I've been getting extreme headaches even more (especially last

4 days) along with an extremely bad sore throat.

I cant exactly see a doctor over the weekend and havent been told to stop my

medication as from my understanding you follow the doctors orders...just not

quite sure what to do...

If theres additional information I can read somewhere that would be helpful that

would be awesome as well...thanks in advance.

[Guest guest]

So...a few days ago I started just putting all of the Testim 50mg gel tube into

one and, putting them together and just putting about the same amount of gel on

each shoulder/upper arm area...

Now I am starting to get pimples again like I did when I hit puberty...

When I was doing only 1 shoulder/upper arm area, this didnt occur...

Any reason for this? Or am I absorbing more this time?

Is there something I can do to fix the whole acne issue?

I just saw the doctor yesterday and I didnt get it until today, so wondering if

I will just need to bring it up again when I see doctor again...

He scheduled me for a CT Scan for a possible brain tumor, and a Sleep Study for

possible Sleep Apnea.

Thanks

[Guest guest]

I will to this day get a few acne bumps after a shot it's not a lot one to maybe

three. This is the Testosterone levels going up. But it can be from the gel

are you getting them on your neck or face or on the area you put the gel on.

When you say your.

(putting all of the Testim 50mg gel tube into one and,

putting them together and just putting about the same amount

of gel on each shoulder/upper arm area)

How much are you putting on each side each tube is 5 grams the most one can do

it 5 on each side.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Quinton <daqman247@...>

> Subject: Re: New to forums - Been on Testim for 13 days so

far...

>

> Date: Tuesday, May 25, 2010, 10:16 AM

> So...a few days ago I started just

> putting all of the Testim 50mg gel tube into one and,

> putting them together and just putting about the same amount

> of gel on each shoulder/upper arm area...

>

> Now I am starting to get pimples again like I did when I

> hit puberty...

>

> When I was doing only 1 shoulder/upper arm area, this didnt

> occur...

>

> Any reason for this? Or am I absorbing more this time?

>

> Is there something I can do to fix the whole acne issue?

>

> I just saw the doctor yesterday and I didnt get it until

> today, so wondering if I will just need to bring it up again

> when I see doctor again...

>

> He scheduled me for a CT Scan for a possible brain tumor,

> and a Sleep Study for possible Sleep Apnea.

>

> Thanks

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Mainly its just coming up on my nose and had like 1-2 spots on my left cheek

under the eye.

I'm only using 1 50mg tube atm, so basically I just pour all the contents into 1

palm, smack both hands together and then just into the shoulders.

Not sure if its the same amount that I was getting from doing just 1 shoulder,

but I never had the issue before until a few days ago and I've been on it for

almost 3 weeks.

[Guest guest]

It is a starting dose and the best way to do this is to only use half the tube

on your upper arms and shoulders and down your back as far as your can reach

then rub it in well. Then do the other side same way it works best is your

cover a large area. What you might have is a hive I get one or two some times

when I do my meds.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Quinton <daqman247@...>

> Subject: Re: New to forums - Been on Testim for 13 days so

far...

>

> Date: Tuesday, May 25, 2010, 1:24 PM

> Mainly its just coming up on my nose

> and had like 1-2 spots on my left cheek under the eye.

>

> I'm only using 1 50mg tube atm, so basically I just pour

> all the contents into 1 palm, smack both hands together and

> then just into the shoulders.

>

> Not sure if its the same amount that I was getting from

> doing just 1 shoulder, but I never had the issue before

> until a few days ago and I've been on it for almost 3

> weeks.

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>