Re: HMG vs HCG

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Please trim your posts. Reading this group's email in digest is a nightmare,

especially on mobile devices. Thanks.

> > > > >

> > > > > I just wanted to give a quick check in on how I

> > > was doing going off HRT.

> > > > > Some of you know my story, some don't, the short

> > > version of the story is

> > > > I

> > > > > am 32yrs old now and my total test was 257-263 on

> > > two different tests a

> > > > > little over a week apart. My LH was in the bottom

> > > 1/3rd of the range,

> > > > which

> > > > > seems to mean I am secondary, MRI is clean for

> > > tumors I have not gotten E

> > > > or

> > > > > cortisol tests done but that is in the plan

> > > eventually. It is my belief

> > > > > that my low T is due to stress or other factors

> > > and not necessarily

> > > > damage

> > > > > to my pituitary. I wanted to have T checked

> > > because I have had some

> > > > > difficulty losing weight, specifically the last

> > > 30lbs or so, even though

> > > > I

> > > > > was in great shape (better then when I was

> > > playing football in High

> > > > school

> > > > > except I am heavier). I also seem to have a

> > > general lack of confidence, I

> > > > > have a lot of willpower but that is not always

> > > enough, when I was younger

> > > > I

> > > > > really didn't even need willpower I just had this

> > > drive that pushed me to

> > > > my

> > > > > goals (I really want that back!).

> > > > >

> > > > > At any rate I went on 2.5g of Androgel initially

> > > and I did feel a little

> > > > > better and had no testis atrophy, after several

> > > weeks on this dosage my

> > > > > total T was 347 so my doctor told changed my

> > > dosage all the way up to the

> > > > > 10g mark to see how I do. Unfortunately in the

> > > middle of this I was

> > > > forced

> > > > > to go on several business trips so I have not

> > > been able to follow up with

> > > > > him, after 2 weeks at this dosage I didn't really

> > > feel any different then

> > > > > when using 2.5g except I knew my system was no

> > > longer producing as much T

> > > > > because my testis were starting to atrophy. I

> > > know there is HCG to take

> > > > > care of this, but again I am out of country on a

> > > business trip so I can't

> > > > > really follow up on that and I did not realize

> > > how much atrophy would

> > > > bother

> > > > > me psychologically. It is also a nuisance to put

> > > on 10g of Androgel every

> > > > > morning.

> > > > >

> > > > > At this point, I seemingly had not really gained

> > > much from the Androgel

> > > > and

> > > > > being that I cannot follow up with labs at the

> > > moment, and that I should

> > > > not

> > > > > have low T at 32 anyways, I wanted to go off it

> > > and try cycling herbals

> > > > to

> > > > > see if I could normalize my T that way. Maybe it

> > > is a myth but I have

> > > > read

> > > > > some stories of guys going from 250 total T to

> > > 800 range when combining

> > > > > herbals, diet, working out, and controlling E.

> > > However I could not find

> > > > any

> > > > > guide on how to go off HRT and everything I read

> > > was that I would crash

> > > > if I

> > > > > just stopped it. The Androgel packet says that

> > > within 4-5 days your T

> > > > will

> > > > > return to pre-treatment levels so I just reduced

> > > my dosage to 5g for 5

> > > > days,

> > > > > and then stopped using Androgel after 5 more days

> > > of the 5g. I started

> > > > the

> > > > > herbals before I changed the Androgel dosage.

> > > > >

> > > > > It has been about a week now since I have been

> > > totally off Androgel and

> > > > only

> > > > > doing the herbals, honestly I feel very similar

> > > as to when I was on HRT

> > > > > except my libido is actually up and testis are

> > > returning to normal.

> > > > Granted

> > > > > I don't have any tests to show me where my T is

> > > yet and I probably won't

> > > > for

> > > > > a couple of weeks because of this business trip,

> > > but I think at worst I

> > > > am

> > > > > back to my original T range but I would not doubt

> > > I am slightly higher at

> > > > > least just from my feel of things. Keep in mind

> > > 250+ T is still a lot

> > > > better

> > > > > then some that have been under 200 T without HRT,

> > > those guys may crash

> > > > > really hard when going off HRT.

> > > > >

> > > > > For T boost I am taking (cycling through them,

> > > originally it was one per

> > > > day

> > > > > and cycle through them to avoid the body adapting

> > > to them, but currently

> > > > I

> > > > > am trying taking 3 of them per day and rotate

> > > through):

> > > > >

> > > > > Tribulus

> > > > > Tongkat Ali

> > > > > Deer Antler Velvet

> > > > > Horny Goat Weed

> > > > > Catuaba

> > > > > Mucuna

> > > > >

> > > > > Mon-Fri I am also taking Driven Sports " Activate

> > > Extreme " which is a

> > > > > combination of Stinging Nettle, Icariin, Rhodiola

> > > Rosea, pine bark, I3C,

> > > > > Basella Alba, and Zinc. I am also taking up to

> > > 10g of fish oil a day in

> > > > > divided doses, as it is these type of fats that

> > > supposedly support

> > > > > testosterone production.

> > > > >

> > > > > For E suppression I am taking these daily, maybe

> > > I need to alternate? I

> > > > > don't know my E levels but considering I

> > > sometimes feel more emotional

> > > > then

> > > > > I should I think its at best normal-high. I will

> > > do labs when I get back

> > > > to

> > > > > my normal routine:

> > > > >

> > > > > Resveratrol

> > > > > DIM

> > > > > Chrysin

> > > > >

> > > > > I am also rotating between Rhodiola and

> > > Ashwanaghanda daily since I am

> > > > under

> > > > > a lot of stress (I worked a 20hr day Friday!), I

> > > may need to find a

> > > > better

> > > > > way to do these so my body does not adapt.

> > > > >

> > > > > If anyone else has any suggestions on herbals to

> > > add to this rotation

> > > > please

> > > > > let me know, I think I should try to get Maca

> > > into the bunch and there

> > > > may

> > > > > be others I have not had much time to research

> > > due to work.

> > > > >

> > > > > My physical activity has plummeted since being on

> > > these business trips, I

> > > > > used to workout 12-15hrs a week between martial

> > > arts and general workouts

> > > > > and lately its been relatively nothing. I

> > > originally tried to keep up

> > > > with

> > > > > workouts but when your working 12hr+ days its

> > > very hard to get up earlier

> > > > > then normal to do them. Food has also been a

> > > chore, I am a stress eater

> > > > so

> > > > > that has been a huge battle and I have been

> > > drinking more then I ever

> > > > have

> > > > > to unwind (which can lower T from what I read

> > > because it can cause muscle

> > > > > wasting and fat storage, the hops also have

> > > phytoestrogens).

> > > > >

> > > > > At any rate I am trying this route out, I think

> > > if I can lower my stress,

> > > > > get my workouts going again, get at least 7hrs of

> > > sleep each night, and

> > > > get

> > > > > my diet in check I will probably feel even

> > > better. I may also explore

> > > > > acupuncture to see if there is anything I can

> > > gain from that. I may not

> > > > be

> > > > > able to reach 800 readings but if i could get to

> > > 450-500 range I think I

> > > > > would feel better and could live with that and I

> > > would still have room

> > > > for

> > > > > TRT when I am much older. I am not saying this

> > > will work for everyone who

> > > > > is secondary or even work for me, but I thought I

> > > would share my

> > > > experience

> > > > > thus far.

> > > > >

> > > > > If anyone else has more suggestions on how to

> > > naturally build T please

> > > > send

> > > > > them my way.

> > > > >

> > > > > -Matt

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > removed]

> > > > >

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