Guest guest Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 Hi, anyone tried Human Menopausal Gonadotropin (HMG)? More expensive than HCG, but has other positive effects than HCG especially for fertility and other issues. K. Ullis, MD On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 1:21 PM, philip georgian <pmgamer18@...>wrote: > > > Matt there are a lot of secondary men on just HCG one gut I know sees Dr. > Shippen this Dr. did the book " The Testosterone Syndrome " he started doing > HCG only and was doing a shot every 3 days then after talking to Dr. at > the MESO men's health forum he ran there at the time. Dr. told him to > try HCG everyday he did doing 100 IU's and found out later he could get by > on 60 IU's a day. The last time I heard Z is still doing HCG only every > day and keeping his Estradiol levels down with Indolplex/DIM here are some > links to a paper he did. Z was a big member here back in the day helped > me a lot. > > http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/david-z-s-primer-134235700.html > > http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/david-z-s-primer-134235701.html > > And I take Maca but you will not see taking this will up your Testosterone > levels I have tired a lot of herbs and none raised my Testosterone levels > but then again it's hard to find good herbs. > Co-Moderator > Phil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Matt > > > > > > Are you the same guy that posted on here about looking > > young for your age? > > > (from US) > > > > > > Personally I think herbals would offer little in way > > of benefit and even > > > more so when you consider all the hassle - workign out > > and diet is likely to > > > offer much more than the herbals. How much endogenoue > > T your body can > > > produce is another story though. > > > > > > If you tried hCG alongside TRT (whether androgel or > > injections) maybe you > > > would feel much better and want to keep on that regime > > even if it was a > > > hassle at times. Like most things I guess once its > > part of your routine you > > > kind of don't bother about it so much. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just wanted to give a quick check in on how I > > was doing going off HRT. > > > > Some of you know my story, some don't, the short > > version of the story is > > > I > > > > am 32yrs old now and my total test was 257-263 on > > two different tests a > > > > little over a week apart. My LH was in the bottom > > 1/3rd of the range, > > > which > > > > seems to mean I am secondary, MRI is clean for > > tumors I have not gotten E > > > or > > > > cortisol tests done but that is in the plan > > eventually. It is my belief > > > > that my low T is due to stress or other factors > > and not necessarily > > > damage > > > > to my pituitary. I wanted to have T checked > > because I have had some > > > > difficulty losing weight, specifically the last > > 30lbs or so, even though > > > I > > > > was in great shape (better then when I was > > playing football in High > > > school > > > > except I am heavier). I also seem to have a > > general lack of confidence, I > > > > have a lot of willpower but that is not always > > enough, when I was younger > > > I > > > > really didn't even need willpower I just had this > > drive that pushed me to > > > my > > > > goals (I really want that back!). > > > > > > > > At any rate I went on 2.5g of Androgel initially > > and I did feel a little > > > > better and had no testis atrophy, after several > > weeks on this dosage my > > > > total T was 347 so my doctor told changed my > > dosage all the way up to the > > > > 10g mark to see how I do. Unfortunately in the > > middle of this I was > > > forced > > > > to go on several business trips so I have not > > been able to follow up with > > > > him, after 2 weeks at this dosage I didn't really > > feel any different then > > > > when using 2.5g except I knew my system was no > > longer producing as much T > > > > because my testis were starting to atrophy. I > > know there is HCG to take > > > > care of this, but again I am out of country on a > > business trip so I can't > > > > really follow up on that and I did not realize > > how much atrophy would > > > bother > > > > me psychologically. It is also a nuisance to put > > on 10g of Androgel every > > > > morning. > > > > > > > > At this point, I seemingly had not really gained > > much from the Androgel > > > and > > > > being that I cannot follow up with labs at the > > moment, and that I should > > > not > > > > have low T at 32 anyways, I wanted to go off it > > and try cycling herbals > > > to > > > > see if I could normalize my T that way. Maybe it > > is a myth but I have > > > read > > > > some stories of guys going from 250 total T to > > 800 range when combining > > > > herbals, diet, working out, and controlling E. > > However I could not find > > > any > > > > guide on how to go off HRT and everything I read > > was that I would crash > > > if I > > > > just stopped it. The Androgel packet says that > > within 4-5 days your T > > > will > > > > return to pre-treatment levels so I just reduced > > my dosage to 5g for 5 > > > days, > > > > and then stopped using Androgel after 5 more days > > of the 5g. I started > > > the > > > > herbals before I changed the Androgel dosage. > > > > > > > > It has been about a week now since I have been > > totally off Androgel and > > > only > > > > doing the herbals, honestly I feel very similar > > as to when I was on HRT > > > > except my libido is actually up and testis are > > returning to normal. > > > Granted > > > > I don't have any tests to show me where my T is > > yet and I probably won't > > > for > > > > a couple of weeks because of this business trip, > > but I think at worst I > > > am > > > > back to my original T range but I would not doubt > > I am slightly higher at > > > > least just from my feel of things. Keep in mind > > 250+ T is still a lot > > > better > > > > then some that have been under 200 T without HRT, > > those guys may crash > > > > really hard when going off HRT. > > > > > > > > For T boost I am taking (cycling through them, > > originally it was one per > > > day > > > > and cycle through them to avoid the body adapting > > to them, but currently > > > I > > > > am trying taking 3 of them per day and rotate > > through): > > > > > > > > Tribulus > > > > Tongkat Ali > > > > Deer Antler Velvet > > > > Horny Goat Weed > > > > Catuaba > > > > Mucuna > > > > > > > > Mon-Fri I am also taking Driven Sports " Activate > > Extreme " which is a > > > > combination of Stinging Nettle, Icariin, Rhodiola > > Rosea, pine bark, I3C, > > > > Basella Alba, and Zinc. I am also taking up to > > 10g of fish oil a day in > > > > divided doses, as it is these type of fats that > > supposedly support > > > > testosterone production. > > > > > > > > For E suppression I am taking these daily, maybe > > I need to alternate? I > > > > don't know my E levels but considering I > > sometimes feel more emotional > > > then > > > > I should I think its at best normal-high. I will > > do labs when I get back > > > to > > > > my normal routine: > > > > > > > > Resveratrol > > > > DIM > > > > Chrysin > > > > > > > > I am also rotating between Rhodiola and > > Ashwanaghanda daily since I am > > > under > > > > a lot of stress (I worked a 20hr day Friday!), I > > may need to find a > > > better > > > > way to do these so my body does not adapt. > > > > > > > > If anyone else has any suggestions on herbals to > > add to this rotation > > > please > > > > let me know, I think I should try to get Maca > > into the bunch and there > > > may > > > > be others I have not had much time to research > > due to work. > > > > > > > > My physical activity has plummeted since being on > > these business trips, I > > > > used to workout 12-15hrs a week between martial > > arts and general workouts > > > > and lately its been relatively nothing. I > > originally tried to keep up > > > with > > > > workouts but when your working 12hr+ days its > > very hard to get up earlier > > > > then normal to do them. Food has also been a > > chore, I am a stress eater > > > so > > > > that has been a huge battle and I have been > > drinking more then I ever > > > have > > > > to unwind (which can lower T from what I read > > because it can cause muscle > > > > wasting and fat storage, the hops also have > > phytoestrogens). > > > > > > > > At any rate I am trying this route out, I think > > if I can lower my stress, > > > > get my workouts going again, get at least 7hrs of > > sleep each night, and > > > get > > > > my diet in check I will probably feel even > > better. I may also explore > > > > acupuncture to see if there is anything I can > > gain from that. I may not > > > be > > > > able to reach 800 readings but if i could get to > > 450-500 range I think I > > > > would feel better and could live with that and I > > would still have room > > > for > > > > TRT when I am much older. I am not saying this > > will work for everyone who > > > > is secondary or even work for me, but I thought I > > would share my > > > experience > > > > thus far. > > > > > > > > If anyone else has more suggestions on how to > > naturally build T please > > > send > > > > them my way. > > > > > > > > -Matt > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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