Re: Lastest on my saga,.........new testing as well

[Guest guest]

Sorry it's not working out for you looks to me like you might be Secondary and

need an MRI on your Pituitary to rule out a tumor. Make sure your off Clomid a

good 5 to 6 weeks to test Estradiol or your labs will not be any good. I got

this from Dr. . He even said you need to be off Clomid for other testing

but I can't remember what labs they were. If your levels go up on Clomid then

try 100 IU's per day of HCG do a good 15 days of this and test again see how

levels look and how you feel.

If not good go on TRT.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...>

> Subject: Lastest on my saga,.........new testing as well

>

> Date: Wednesday, March 16, 2011, 12:30 PM

> Hope some of you remember me, as it's

> been awhile since I have been around here. Other medical

> issues and work is very busy but hard for me to keep up

> with.

>

> Anyway I made it back to my functional medicine doc and he

> ran another full panel on me. All I did was take Arimidex

> for a brief time due to having E2 in the 52 range.

>

> Here is my latest panel:

> Dihydrotestosterone - 13L (25-75 ng/dL)

> SHBG - 12 (9-45 nmol/L)

> Total T - 222L (241-827 ng/dL)

> FSH - 6.7 (1.6-8.0 mIU/mL)

> LH - 3.0 (1.5-9.3 mIU/mL)

> Prolactin - 9.2 (2.0-18.0 ng/mL)

> Estradiol - 24 (13-54 pg/mL) #4021 Quest

> Total PSA - 0.6 (<or=4.0 ng/mL)

> Free PSA - 0.1 ng/mL

> % Free PSA - 17L (>25% calc)

>

> Anyway as can be seen the small amount of Arimidex I took

> brought down my E2 nicely, but no increase in my Total T.

>

> He is having me do a Clomid challenge of 25mg for 7 days

> with follow up labs of FSH/LH, Total T, DHT, SHBG, E2 to be

> done the morning after I finish the last pill.

>

> He suggested this before starting TRT due to my low LH

> levels that should be screaming at that T level.

>

> I have felt he is a good doc, and now I know he is. This

> guy uses EVERYTHING out there. He said I could try HCG next

> if I wanted, and I also found out today that if I need to

> start TRT, I will have my choice of compounded cream/gel

> with Chrysin added in, Testim/Androgel, or I can inject

> myself if I am into it.

> He uses HCG on a schedule with the TRT as well to avoid

> testicular atrophy.

>

> Regardless of what happens with this Clomid challenge, I

> know I have a doc that will let me do whatever I want to,

> and I don't have to fight for the proper tests or drugs.

>

> Input is appreciated as it always has been, and I hope you

> fine folks have been doing well!

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Sorry it's not working out for you looks to me like you might be Secondary and

need an MRI on your Pituitary to rule out a tumor. Make sure your off Clomid a

good 5 to 6 weeks to test Estradiol or your labs will not be any good. I got

this from Dr. . He even said you need to be off Clomid for other testing

but I can't remember what labs they were. If your levels go up on Clomid then

try 100 IU's per day of HCG do a good 15 days of this and test again see how

levels look and how you feel.

>

> If not good go on TRT.

> Co-Moderator

> Phil

Obviously I was hoping that dropping my E2 levels would make a difference but I

guess it didn't as you can see.

He said the Clomid test would check out the hypothalamus axis in relation to the

pituitary. Looking for an increase of 50% or better hopefully.

Do you know if this stuff is safe for a 7 day run at 25mg?

Also I had an MRI w/wo contrast last year of my head,......nothing was noted

abnormal. This was before I got set up with my current doc though.

He said today that my previous MRI was fine,......he saw it, but that I might

need to have a more targeted one done depending upon what happens.

If you remember I hate taking meds, but he says this challenge is totally safe

and will do me no harm. I hope he is right.

[Guest guest]

Just keep an eye out for eye flooters if this happens call your Dr.

You can still have a pituitary Problem many this do this mine is bad from a head

injury.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...>

> Subject: Re: Lastest on my saga,.........new testing as well

>

> Date: Wednesday, March 16, 2011, 1:25 PM

>

>

>

> >

> > Sorry it's not working out for you looks to me like

> you might be Secondary and need an MRI on your Pituitary to

> rule out a tumor.  Make sure your off Clomid a good 5

> to 6 weeks to test Estradiol or your labs will not be any

> good.  I got this from Dr. .  He even said you

> need to be off Clomid for other testing but I can't remember

> what labs they were.  If your levels go up on Clomid

> then try 100 IU's per day of HCG do a good 15 days of this

> and test again see how levels look and how you feel.

> >

> > If not good go on TRT.

> > Co-Moderator

> > Phil

>

> Obviously I was hoping that dropping my E2 levels would

> make a difference but I guess it didn't as you can see.

>

> He said the Clomid test would check out the hypothalamus

> axis in relation to the pituitary. Looking for an increase

> of 50% or better hopefully.

>

> Do you know if this stuff is safe for a 7 day run at 25mg?

> Also I had an MRI w/wo contrast last year of my

> head,......nothing was noted abnormal. This was before I got

> set up with my current doc though.

>

> He said today that my previous MRI was fine,......he saw

> it, but that I might need to have a more targeted one done

> depending upon what happens.

>

> If you remember I hate taking meds, but he says this

> challenge is totally safe and will do me no harm. I hope he

> is right.

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Just keep an eye out for eye flooters if this happens call your Dr.

>

> You can still have a pituitary Problem many this do this mine is bad from a

head injury.

> Co-Moderator

> Phil

Well heck Phil,.....I already have 'floaters' per se. )

I think I know what you mean though as I did some reading about visual

disturbances.

Trying to figure out what you meant in that last line, but I think you are

agreeing that my clear 'head' MRI doesn't mean I don't have an issue with my

pituitary?

To be honest, at this point I really don't care too much. I feel so tired and

broken that I am willing to take a shot at virtually anything.

I think that this doc of mine follows a number of others including Shippen.

Don't know if that is good or bad.

I need to try this, or simply start TRT for life. Doc's suggestion was this as

he has been on TRT himself for years. He said If I have the desire to explore

the options that now is the time before I start anything TRT related.

One idea down (E2),......I think I am going to try this route simply for the

info it might provide.

[Guest guest]

I feel you will know what you need to do when the time comes. Bottom line is

test everything if nothing is wrong go on TRT. My life is better on it for the

first 5 yrs I was sick it was He** just to get though a day.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...>

> Subject: Re: Lastest on my saga,.........new testing as well

>

> Date: Wednesday, March 16, 2011, 3:41 PM

>

>

>

> >

> > Just keep an eye out for eye flooters if this happens

> call your Dr.

> >

> > You can still have a pituitary Problem many this do

> this mine is bad from a head injury.

> > Co-Moderator

> > Phil

>

> Well heck Phil,.....I already have 'floaters' per se. )

> I think I know what you mean though as I did some reading

> about visual disturbances.

>

> Trying to figure out what you meant in that last line, but

> I think you are agreeing that my clear 'head' MRI doesn't

> mean I don't have an issue with my pituitary?

>

> To be honest, at this point I really don't care too much. I

> feel so tired and broken that I am willing to take a shot at

> virtually anything.

> I think that this doc of mine follows a number of others

> including Shippen. Don't know if that is good or bad.

>

> I need to try this, or simply start TRT for life. Doc's

> suggestion was this as he has been on TRT himself for years.

> He said If I have the desire to explore the options that now

> is the time before I start anything TRT related.

>

> One idea down (E2),......I think I am going to try this

> route simply for the info it might provide.

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> I feel you will know what you need to do when the time comes. Bottom line is

test everything if nothing is wrong go on TRT. My life is better on it for the

first 5 yrs I was sick it was He** just to get though a day.

> Co-Moderator

> Phil

>

Never had my DHT levels tested before,.....I presume it's low because my total T

is low?

Also I was wondering how much of my total T could be being produced through the

adrenal mechanism.

I guess my thought process is that if that is the case, maybe my testes are not

working after all?

But then again my LH should be high regardless,......or at least a lot higher

than it is.

Doc said my LH would be normal at that test level if my T was around 600 or

more, but not at my low level.

So many questions I forget to ask when I am there! )

I am going to start this stuff tonight,.....already split the pills.

He said a small percentage of men can use this about twice a week in a dose from

10 to 25mg to maintain normal levels, and that in some unique cases this drug

has caused a reconnection per se of whatever signal is missing with no further

action needed after the challenge.

I guess it comes down to trying it, and how lucky I feel.

Since I don't feel too lucky lately, I imagine I will be starting TRT in a few

weeks. Then I will be asking which form I should take since he is giving me ALL

of the options.

Right now I am leaning towards the compounded gel/cream method to start. What's

the consensus out there when the time comes?

[Guest guest]

Creams or Gels first if your skin lets them in good if not go to shots.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...>

> Subject: Re: Lastest on my saga,.........new testing as well

>

> Date: Thursday, March 17, 2011, 2:15 PM

>

>

>

> >

> > I feel you will know what you need to do when the time

> comes.  Bottom line is test everything if nothing is

> wrong go on TRT.  My life is better on it for the first

> 5 yrs I was sick it was He** just to get though a day.

> > Co-Moderator

> > Phil

> >

> Never had my DHT levels tested before,.....I presume it's

> low because my total T is low?

>

> Also I was wondering how much of my total T could be being

> produced through the adrenal mechanism.

> I guess my thought process is that if that is the case,

> maybe my testes are not working after all?

>

> But then again my LH should be high regardless,......or at

> least a lot higher than it is.

> Doc said my LH would be normal at that test level if my T

> was around 600 or more, but not at my low level.

>

> So many questions I forget to ask when I am there! )

> I am going to start this stuff tonight,.....already split

> the pills.

>

> He said a small percentage of men can use this about twice

> a week in a dose from 10 to 25mg to maintain normal levels,

> and that in some unique cases this drug has caused a

> reconnection per se of whatever signal is missing with no

> further action needed after the challenge.

>

> I guess it comes down to trying it, and how lucky I feel.

> Since I don't feel too lucky lately, I imagine I will be

> starting TRT in a few weeks. Then I will be asking which

> form I should take since he is giving me ALL of the

> options.

>

> Right now I am leaning towards the compounded gel/cream

> method to start. What's the consensus out there when the

> time comes?

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Pretty much what I thought your suggestion would be.

He said the compounded stuff was better in his opinion due to the fact I would

not have to spread as much stuff around per se.

I guess they can concentrate it stronger than gels like Testim.

Pretty sure I will try that first if this Clomid stuff doesn't do anything.

After that I will simply inject myself,.....I think he uses a once a week

regimen.

He has some kind of computer graphing gizmo that takes your SHBG and other info,

and comes up with a suggested T level and a dose. I have no idea how accurate it

is of course.

I think he said the shots are done subq? I always thought they were IM, but what

do I know!

>

> Creams or Gels first if your skin lets them in good if not go to shots.

> Co-Moderator

> Phil

[Guest guest]

Dr. Shippen in his book " The Testosterone Syndrome " he was down on shots. Now

he dose them to his self every 3 days subQ.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...>

> Subject: Re: Lastest on my saga,.........new testing as well

>

> Date: Saturday, March 19, 2011, 12:56 PM

> Pretty much what I thought your

> suggestion would be.

> He said the compounded stuff was better in his opinion due

> to the fact I would not have to spread as much stuff around

> per se.

>

> I guess they can concentrate it stronger than gels like

> Testim.

> Pretty sure I will try that first if this Clomid stuff

> doesn't do anything.

>

> After that I will simply inject myself,.....I think he uses

> a once a week regimen.

> He has some kind of computer graphing gizmo that takes your

> SHBG and other info, and comes up with a suggested T level

> and a dose. I have no idea how accurate it is of course.

>

> I think he said the shots are done subq? I always thought

> they were IM, but what do I know!

>

>

> >

> > Creams or Gels first if your skin lets them in good if

> not go to shots.

> > Co-Moderator

> > Phil

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

oh the irony, I didn't know this, he had me on hcg years ago, but he did to high

a dose and at the time I didn't know this, so i thought TRT wasn't working.

subQ...isn't it too think to use those small needles, can I get them over the

counter?

> > >

> > > Creams or Gels first if your skin lets them in good if

> > not go to shots.

> > > Co-Moderator

> > > Phil

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

HCG is very thin Test C is thick but still you can do shots with smaller needles

subQ it just takes time to pull the oil out of the vial. Yes you should be able

to get needles at most drug stores. Some will ask for a scrip because if people

doing drugs. So just have your Dr. give you one or but the needls of the web.

I use to buy from Amazon.com I use this BD Tuberculin Syringe, 27G x 1/2 " , 1 mL,

100/bx

cost about $25 for a box.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: justinm <jtmoy19607@...>

> Subject: Re: Lastest on my saga,.........new testing as well

>

> Date: Saturday, March 19, 2011, 3:50 PM

> oh the irony, I didn't know this, he

> had me on hcg years ago, but he did to high a dose and at

> the time I didn't know this, so i thought TRT wasn't

> working. subQ...isn't it too think to use those small

> needles, can I get them over the counter?

>

>

>

> > > >

> > > > Creams or Gels first if your skin lets them

> in good if

> > > not go to shots.

> > > > Co-Moderator

> > > > Phil

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

I think my doc said I could use two needles,.....one to extract, and one to

inject if I go with self injection.

Now that kind of makes sense to me I think! LOL

Larger needle for drawing and switch for the injection. I am not afraid of

needles in the least BTW.

Does what I THOUGHT I heard make any sense to you?

I'm still trying the gel stuff first when the time comes.

>

> HCG is very thin Test C is thick but still you can do shots with smaller

needles subQ it just takes time to pull the oil out of the vial. Yes you should

be able to get needles at most drug stores. Some will ask for a scrip because

if people doing drugs. So just have your Dr. give you one or but the needls of

the web. I use to buy from Amazon.com I use this BD Tuberculin Syringe, 27G x

1/2 " , 1 mL, 100/bx

> cost about $25 for a box.

> Co-Moderator

> Phil

[Guest guest]

You can do it this way I don't I just draw and shoot.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...>

> Subject: Re: Lastest on my saga,.........new testing as well

>

> Date: Sunday, March 20, 2011, 3:03 PM

>

>

> I think my doc said I could use two needles,.....one to

> extract, and one to inject if I go with self injection.

>

> Now that kind of makes sense to me I think! LOL

> Larger needle for drawing and switch for the injection. I

> am not afraid of needles in the least BTW.

>

> Does what I THOUGHT I heard make any sense to you?

> I'm still trying the gel stuff first when the time comes.

>

>

> >

> > HCG is very thin Test C is thick but still you can do

> shots with smaller needles subQ it just takes time to pull

> the oil out of the vial.  Yes you should be able to get

> needles at most drug stores.  Some will ask for a scrip

> because if people doing drugs.  So just have your Dr.

> give you one or but the needls of the web.  I use to

> buy from Amazon.com I use this BD Tuberculin Syringe, 27G x

> 1/2 " , 1 mL, 100/bx

> > cost about $25 for a box.

> > Co-Moderator

> > Phil

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

I will report back with my results after my bloodwork comes back. All I can say

is I do not feel any different at all.

I assume that means nothing has changed.

We shall see, and then I shall start on TRT! LOL