Help

July 25, 2006

Hi Kim

I guess I have reached an all time low and have decided I have to take the

thyroxine. Today I even thought about ending things altogether. Sooo depressed

and cannot stay awake. Don't even have energy or inclination to eat and

life not worth it like this.

I am making life a misery for those around me with my mood swings.

So, after a think I have no option but to take the tablets as otherwise I

will end up in hospital and goodness knows what they will do to me there.

My pupils are dilated and I feel sick, feel bloated and huge, depressed and

sore all over and cannot bring myself to do anything. I thought about asking

husband to take me to hospital I feel so bad but am terrified of the cocktail

of stuff they would give me there and know they would push the RAI which

is the last option for me.

Think the only option is to take the thyroxine in the hope it brings me back

from the brink. I would have found it easier to judge things if the doctors

here would give the blood results but they won't. I guess it is one

disadvantage

of our National Health System - the patient is not in control because they

are not paying for it.

Can't stop crying and it is a heatwave here and I am so cold! Wrapped up

in a blanket while everyone else is sweating. Feel so out of it and my head

is so sore all the time.

Will let you know if the thyroxine helps.

Desperate Grace

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July 25, 2006

Grace,

Sorry to hear you are having a really rough go of things. If you are feeling

that poorly maybe the thyroxine will do the trick. Its definitely worth a try

anyway. I have dealt with bad depression before. So anything that can help get

you " up " would be worth the effort to try it. Even if you end up with a rebound

yo-yo thing going on. At least you won't have to deal with things while in " the

pit " .

I noticed someone here recommended the group at mediboard.com to you. I know I

mentioned it before too. If you can check it out, I think it would be a great

help to you. I know there are members there that deal with the National Health

System. Also, there are people there that have done successful B & R therapy too.

If you make it over there I go by Hyperkim.

Keep us posted and know that we are all cheering for you. You will get this

thing figured out eventually.

Take care,

Kim

Re: Re: help

Hi Kim

I guess I have reached an all time low and have decided I have to take the

thyroxine. Today I even thought about ending things altogether. Sooo depressed

and cannot stay awake. Don't even have energy or inclination to eat and

life not worth it like this.

I am making life a misery for those around me with my mood swings.

So, after a think I have no option but to take the tablets as otherwise I

will end up in hospital and goodness knows what they will do to me there.

My pupils are dilated and I feel sick, feel bloated and huge, depressed and

sore all over and cannot bring myself to do anything. I thought about asking

husband to take me to hospital I feel so bad but am terrified of the cocktail

of stuff they would give me there and know they would push the RAI which

is the last option for me.

Think the only option is to take the thyroxine in the hope it brings me back

from the brink. I would have found it easier to judge things if the doctors

here would give the blood results but they won't. I guess it is one disadvantage

of our National Health System - the patient is not in control because they

are not paying for it.

Can't stop crying and it is a heatwave here and I am so cold! Wrapped up

in a blanket while everyone else is sweating. Feel so out of it and my head

is so sore all the time.

Will let you know if the thyroxine helps.

Desperate Grace

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July 25, 2006

AuntJoan,

Thyroxine is a T4 only replacement med.

Kim

Re: Re: help

Dear Grace,

OhmyGod, I'm so sorry you're suffering! I don't know what happened, it

sounds like you are VERY hypo, what does the thyroxine do?

I hope you keep fighting, you are a worthwhile person, and your health is

worth fighting for. What is the doctor's interpretation of what is happening to

you?

AntJoan

July 25, 2006

Hi AntJoan

The doctor has not actually seen me - she just prescribed this over the phone.

I have been unable to get an appointment. She seems to think she doesn't

need to see me until I see the specialist and I have an appointment for the

specialist now - September, which seems like a long way away at the moment.

I don't know what has happened as I was doing well but I really am at rock

bottom and the dr seems to think that a very small dose of thyroxine is all

I need. Initially I didn't want to take it as I wanted to work reducing

the carb alone and working natually and that seemed to be working so well

but boom! Things changed so fast and I don't know how to get back.

Grace

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July 25, 2006

Hi Kim

Went in and been having a look at mediboard. There is a lot of discussion

on block and replace. Sounds like it is a long term thing - 3 to 5 year

programme

really with dedication by Dr and patient to monitor and make it work.

In my heart i would rather have reduced my carb as I was doing - for a while

I felt good, perhaps I did not reduce it fast enough. It was hard to judge

without blood results.

One thing i notice is that on mediboard they speak about antibody testing

- when I asked my Dr about this she said she did not feel it was necessary.

I wonder if i should really push for this and if I can persuade her.

Grace

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July 25, 2006

The only info Dr gave me from last results when I asked her were - (I had

written them down and think I actually had said them wrong online here earlier,

but here we go ....) - T4 was 5.6 and TSH was 38. When I asked for the FT3

and FT4 she said she never had them but i know they were done because I was

the one who asked the nurse to do blood tests. Do those results explain why

I need to go on Thyroxine?

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July 25, 2006

Dear Kim

It was interesting what Nissa said " If Hashimoto's is the cause of your

thyroid issues, you should get off the ATD and start on thyroid

replacement. Definitely something to ask your doctor. "

Maybe that would explain the jump from TSH of less than 0.01 to 38 in four

weeks? If as you say, the TSH results are delayed results, then that figure

could be different now and perhaps the fact that I have cut carb down to

one won't be apparent in my results for awhile.

Grace

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July 25, 2006

Hi Grace

So sorry to hear what you are going through. Please try to hang in

there, I know it is tough, I have been there, but you will come through

this.

You mention the national health service so that makes me think you are

probably in the UK? If so I can tell you that you have a right to see

your medical records including blood test results. I live in the UK and

I wasn't completely happy at one point with the treatment that I

received at the thyroid clinic at the hospital and wanted to know what

exactly had gone on so I requested to see my medical notes there. So

they made me an appointment and actually photocopied all of my blood

tests and results for me to keep.

I find that at my doctors they (the receptionist on the telephone) will

not give me the thyroid test results until a doctor in the surgery has

seen them. Then they will say either, the doctor says they are normal

or you need to come and see the doctor to discuss them, which means they

are not within the normal range. However I then usually ask them to

read out the numbers for tsh and t4 over the phone and usually I can get

them to do this, although sometimes they have insisted on me having an

appointment with my GP to get them.

My GP would not even prescribe any anti thyroid medication when I was

first diagnosed with hyperT, just beta blockers, and I had to wait over

2 months to get an appointment with the specialist at the thyroid clinic

before they gave medication. There RAI wasn't the first option offered,

block and replace therapy was the standard first option offered, then if

it comes back after that they want you to go for RAI. However doctors

can't give you any treatment that you don't consent to. So if you are

not happy about going for RAI then insist that they explain the

alternative options to you.

Incidently the reasoning behind having the block and replace therapy

they told me was that it was supposed to be more effective than just

taking anti thyroid drugs, but I don't know how true that is, also they

said that using the stronger dose of anti thyroid drug gives your

thyroid more of a rest while taking the thyroxine replaces its function.

So that is why they like at some thyroid clinics to do block and

replace. I was on block and replace for a year then I went into

remission for about a year but it came back again. At this point I

decided to try herbs and nutrition which worked for me. However you

need to decide this for yourself. I would recommend tho that you be

honest when you see the specialist about what dosages and medications

you have been taking even if it seems like you are 'disobeying' the

doctor otherwise it might make it confusing for them in trying to treat

you.

Anyway best of luck and hope this has been of some help.

Karisha

Re: Re: help

Hi Kim

I guess I have reached an all time low and have decided I have to take

the

thyroxine. Today I even thought about ending things altogether. Sooo

depressed

and cannot stay awake. Don't even have energy or inclination to eat and

life not worth it like this.

I am making life a misery for those around me with my mood swings.

So, after a think I have no option but to take the tablets as otherwise

I

will end up in hospital and goodness knows what they will do to me

there.

My pupils are dilated and I feel sick, feel bloated and huge, depressed

and

sore all over and cannot bring myself to do anything. I thought about

asking

husband to take me to hospital I feel so bad but am terrified of the

cocktail

of stuff they would give me there and know they would push the RAI which

is the last option for me.

Think the only option is to take the thyroxine in the hope it brings me

back

from the brink. I would have found it easier to judge things if the

doctors

here would give the blood results but they won't. I guess it is one

disadvantage

of our National Health System - the patient is not in control because

they

are not paying for it.

Can't stop crying and it is a heatwave here and I am so cold! Wrapped up

in a blanket while everyone else is sweating. Feel so out of it and my

head

is so sore all the time.

Will let you know if the thyroxine helps.

Desperate Grace

__________________________________________________________

Tiscali Broadband from 14.99 with free setup!

http://www.tiscali. <http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/>

co.uk/products/broadband/

July 25, 2006

Hi Karisha,

Well it is good to know that it is possible to achieve remisson after being

on block and replace! Even tho you relapsed you have been able to treat it

naturally. Well done:-)

As for my blood results, I have asked repeatedly for them and they really

don't want me to have them, I guess I will have to perhaps use my husband

to come down with me to help insist I get a copy of them as without them

it is so hard to understand and I feel understanding them, along with how

I feel, is the key to overcoming this.

It is good that you managed to get copies of yours so that proves it can

be done.

Trouble is my Dr doesn't even want to give the blood tests in the first place!

It is me who is insisting. Gosh, with so many varying treatments and stories,

we really are on our own - thank goodness for the friends I have made on

here - I would be so lost without them just now.

Thanks for writing,

Grace

___________________________________________________________

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July 25, 2006

Hi Grace,

Sorry you're feeling depressed...I got hypo once through too much

ATD's and it was horrible, a tired/run down feeling on which sleep

had absolutely no impact.

About block and replace, my endo doesn't recommend it. Apparently

there's been recent research showing that it is no more effective

than straight ATD's alone. (BTW, he also doesn't do antibody testing

because, he says, there are antibodies which haven't been discovered

yet and therefore aren't tested for so a negative result doesn't mean

anything. On the other hand, the naturopath I saw felt that antibody

levels would predict whether one was going into remission. Myself, I

don't have elevated levels of antithyroid hormones, at least not the

ones that are commonly tested, but I still have Grave's and haven't

ever really gone into remission so I'm more inclined to believe the

endo.)

However, a TSH of 20 means that your pituitary is trying to get your

thyroid to produce more thyroxine, the most common sign of

hypothyroidism. In your case, my guess is that your body is trying to

override the effects of the carbimazole by stimulating the thyroid to

overproduce. I would definitely add the thyroxine and see what

happens. If you're still having hypo symptoms, I'd cut down on the

carbimazole even more and record the results. I find resting pulse is

a good indicator of where my thyroid levels are, others use basal

body temp. Bring the results to the specialist, not that s/he will

necessarily look at them, the guy I saw didn't grrr, but at least

you'll have a sense of how your body might respond to whatever

regimen the specialist recommends and you'll be able to discuss it.

Nissa

July 26, 2006

Grace, your best option might be to go ahead and go to the hospital. If you

are there they will have to do something for you. I went to the emergency

room when my symptoms got bad and that is where the ER doctor did the blood

tests that showed it was my thyroid causing my symptoms.

You do not need the stress of trying to figure out what to do. Everyone has

a different opinion and it confuses an already (because of your thyroid

being off) confused mind. As much as this board helps it can also upset

you. I had to stop reading the posts for a while because they depressed me.

Your TSH being at 38 clearly proves you are hypo and need the thyroxine. Do

not be afraid to start it. Do be honest with whatever doctor you see as to

what you are doing with your meds. They did spend a lot of time and money

to learn, as much as we criticize them for thinking they do not know

anything.

Do not give up! Get they help you need even if you have to demand it. I

was as low as you and did not want to go on either if I thought it would not

get better but it does, it will take time. I had to go on antidepressants

for a while till my thyroid got back to normal.

I had the RAI and although I fought against it for over 2 years it is not

the worst thing in the world. Many people have it and never have a problem.

We only hear the bad stories. Those that do well have gone on and are

enjoying their lives. I certainly would not recommend it until all else

fails.

My prayers are with you dear Grace!

Tammy

Re: Re: help

Hi Kim

I guess I have reached an all time low and have decided I have to take the

thyroxine. Today I even thought about ending things altogether. Sooo

depressed

and cannot stay awake. Don't even have energy or inclination to eat and

life not worth it like this.

I am making life a misery for those around me with my mood swings.

So, after a think I have no option but to take the tablets as otherwise I

will end up in hospital and goodness knows what they will do to me there.

My pupils are dilated and I feel sick, feel bloated and huge, depressed and

sore all over and cannot bring myself to do anything. I thought about asking

husband to take me to hospital I feel so bad but am terrified of the

cocktail

of stuff they would give me there and know they would push the RAI which

is the last option for me.

Think the only option is to take the thyroxine in the hope it brings me back

from the brink. I would have found it easier to judge things if the doctors

here would give the blood results but they won't. I guess it is one

disadvantage

of our National Health System - the patient is not in control because they

are not paying for it.

Can't stop crying and it is a heatwave here and I am so cold! Wrapped up

in a blanket while everyone else is sweating. Feel so out of it and my head

is so sore all the time.

Will let you know if the thyroxine helps.

Desperate Grace

___________________________________________________________

Tiscali Broadband from 14.99 with free setup!

http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/

August 7, 2006

I was reading through the archive...

I tested positive for TPO. What is Tg? They actually did two anti-

body tests TPO and antithyroglobulin antibody test...what is that

second test? I was positive for both antibodies.

If I'm positive, does that mean I have a risk for Hashimoto?

>

> Confusing I know. But having said all that I think it is wise to be

checked for the hashi's antibodies (TPO & Tg). That will help to know

more of what you are dealing with.

>

> Kim

>

August 7, 2006

I was reading through the archive...

I tested positive for TPO. What is Tg? They actually did two anti-

body tests TPO and antithyroglobulin antibody test...what is that

second test? I was positive for both antibodies.

If I'm positive, does that mean I have a risk for Hashimoto?

>

> Confusing I know. But having said all that I think it is wise to be

checked for the hashi's antibodies (TPO & Tg). That will help to know

more of what you are dealing with.

>

> Kim

>

August 8, 2006

Hi Kim,

thyroid stimulating immunoglobulin TSI is only seen in people w/ Graves

disease. This is what they use to dx Graves. You can have the others be

positive but they will be lower. It means that your thyroid is damaged maybe

by swelling. If the others are high and you dont have TSI you have Hashi. If

both are high you may have both Hashi and Graves. From the looks of your labs

your TSH is low so it looks like hyperthyroid. May or may not be due to

Graves. Get the TSI results. I saw a post on another board I will send it to

you. It really helped me understand this stuff.

<clothie@...> wrote:

I was reading through the archive...

I tested positive for TPO. What is Tg? They actually did two anti-

body tests TPO and antithyroglobulin antibody test...what is that

second test? I was positive for both antibodies.

If I'm positive, does that mean I have a risk for Hashimoto?

>

> Confusing I know. But having said all that I think it is wise to be

checked for the hashi's antibodies (TPO & Tg). That will help to know

more of what you are dealing with.

>

> Kim

>

---------------------------------

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August 8, 2006

,

The Tg is the anti-Thyroglobulin test you did have done. The Tg effects the

protein binding process in the blood. Once thyroid hormones are bound to

protein they are unusable by the body. Tg is the " binding " antibody in " thyroid

land " .

TSI-Thyroid Stimulating Immunoglobulin-thyroid " stimulating " antibody - elevated

in Graves. The TSI mimics the TSH function causing elevated T4 levels and

suppressing TSH levels.

TPO-Thyroid Perioxidase- thyroid " blocking " antibody - elevated in Hashimoto's.

The TPO blocks the TSH from stimulating the thyroid to produce more needed T4.

This results in elevated TSH levels with lowered T4 and T3 levels.

Tg-Thyroglobulin Antibody-thyroid " binding " antibody- elevated in Hashimoto's.

The Tg antibody binds available " Free " T4 to protiens making them unusable by

the body. This results in elevated TSH (because the body is requesting more T4)

with lowered " Free " T4 levels.

Most with Hashi's have one or both of the TPO and Tg antibodies but not the TSI.

But some with Graves do have the TPO and/or Tg along with the TSI. And a few

have all three.

When a person has all three, it will depend on which antibody is elevated the

most as to what is affecting thier thyroid levels at that time. These patients

are harder to treat due to changing thyroid situations. I know a few with this

situation goin on. Not fun when they are not stable at one end or the other. I

have all three - really low TPO and Tg with higher TSI. So far I appear stable

at one end.

Clear as mud right?

Kim

Re: help

I was reading through the archive...

I tested positive for TPO. What is Tg? They actually did two anti-

body tests TPO and antithyroglobulin antibody test...what is that

second test? I was positive for both antibodies.

If I'm positive, does that mean I have a risk for Hashimoto?

>

> Confusing I know. But having said all that I think it is wise to be

checked for the hashi's antibodies (TPO & Tg). That will help to know

more of what you are dealing with.

>

> Kim

>

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August 21, 2006

96% of people Crohn's, colitis and IBS have a bacterial

overgrowth. Bowel candida arises afterwards as opportunity

presents itself so 100% of bowel candida patients are affected

with dysbiosis.

The IBS in your case they're probably referring to is from SIBO --

small intestinal bacterial overgrowth -- and you can cure it,

dysbiosis in the gut, and candida, al at once, using the same

techniques that you find on this list.

Duncan

> Posted by: " kc_in_l_a " kobicosta@... kc_in_l_a

> Date: Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:16 am (PDT)

>

> hello everyone

> I am new to this group. I have lived with crohns for about 15 years,

> only the doctors think I may have IBS instead now. I am starting to

> loose faith in the conventinal doctors.

September 4, 2006

Hi Tammy,

Been a while since I have posted here. Was really low last time with my

TSH gone from <0.01 to 38 in a few weeks. Decided to take some thyroxin

as I had to get out of the hole I was in.

Had bloods taken two days after i started the thyroxin and my TSH was only

5.5! This makes me wonder if I was needing to go on it at all or if the TSH

was coming down. Unsure whether the thyroxin has immediate effect like that

so have stayed on it since then, one a day. Two weeks after that I started

to have a flippy heart again (you probably know what I mean as it seems to

be common with thyroid probs) so called the Dr and she said to reduce the

thyroxin to one a day on Monday, Wednesday and Friday (25mg each day) and

miss out the other days. I have continued on 5mg carbimazole a day which

is what I had got it down to.

Also for some time now I have been on homeopathic tablets prescribed by a

homeopathic Dr and although he said they would not cure it he did say they

would help me feel better while on treatment and they do seem to have helped.

So I am just hoping and praying I stay stable for awhile. Just wondering

why the TSH is going up and down like a yoyo so fast cos it makes my body

feel lousy and I am tired of being a moody person:-(

So thats where I am just now and see the specialist on Thursday at last:-)

I thank you for your prayers at the time I was so low - I did not reply to

your post to me then.

So enough of me, how are you keeping?

Grace

___________________________________________________________

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September 21, 2006

As I recall, I didn't have much luck with that recipe either. The

proportions seemed wrong somehow and my bread was fairly inedible, from the

standpoint of texture. I never tried to fix it.

RE: help

>

> I have been following faithfully the recipe for sour dough sunflower seed

> bread in Sandor's Book " Wild Fermentation " but the bread either turned out

> too soggy or too hard. My kitchen is like a bread store now.

> June Ka

October 9, 2006

I'm pretty new, too, Joyce, but would be glad to listen and share what little

I have found out.. Hang In, you are among those that understand and care..

Sheena

JOYCE K <tskjak@...> wrote:

i would like to become a joiner,i'm fairly new at this but after

todayi fell i need some ouside chat with others who know what i'm going thru at

this point and time.

joyce

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countries) for 2¢/min or less.

November 24, 2006

_http://www.thyroid-info.com/topdrs/arizona.htm_

(http://www.thyroid-info.com/topdrs/arizona.htm)

In a message dated 11/24/2006 10:05:30 PM Eastern Standard Time,

sesimplyme@... writes:

The more I learn about this disease the more depressed I get because

I feel like its always going to be a battle now to feel healthy, and

maybe I never will??? If anyone is from the Phoenix, Az area, can

you recommend a good doctor?

November 24, 2006

Where can I find these published recommendations. I am ready to go in

fighting, but feel like I'm going to need documentation to prove my case. I

will

be redoing my blood work in a couple of weeks before my next appointment and

I want all the information I can gather to prove to the doctor that 75 mcg is

not enough.

November 24, 2006

Thank you so much, I found listed a Dr just three miles from my home. Now,

I just have to see if he takes Cigna. Thanks!

November 25, 2006

sesimplyme,

You wrote:

>

> ... From what I've read I think I should be put on at least 200 mgs , but

> my last blood tests (the first since being diagnosed) showed I was

> back in the " normal " range, but my sed rate which should be 20 is

> still at 40, down from 45. ...

What is your doctor telling you is the " normal " range? The reference

range given on lab tests is only for people PRIOR to treatment.

Depending on the medication, the " normal " range should change,

especially for T3 meds. I have previously posted sites that give the new

recommended range as 0.3 to 3.0. Experience on this list is that the

maximum really ought to be 2.0, but that is not in the published

literature. You might take those published recommendations along with

the manufacturers' dosing recommendations.

Chuck

December 7, 2006

hi girls. try douching with water and 10 to 15 drops of grapefruit

seed extract (I think that's the recommended amount). It REALLY

works fast! Rose

>

> hi , I am sorry to hear that you have the same problem that

I do,(what a bummer) I have seen were some people have said to take

a clove of garlic remove the paper, make little slits in it, and

thread a needle, put the needle through the garlic and then insert

the galic into your vagina, leaving the thread hanging out like a

tampon, I have also read were taking boric acid and filling capsules

with it and then insurting them into your vagina works to, but I

must say it is kind of scary putting something up your crotch that

has skull and cross bones on and is said to kill rats, I have not

tried either method does anybody know if any of these things work,

us gals out here have to have some natural meds to beat this

problem, all the doctors want to do is keep giving antibiotics,

which just makes us sicker.

> Re: HELP

>

> does anybody know of any natural medicine that can

> > cure bacterial vaginitis, I have been looking everywhere but

can't

> > find anything, if I go back to the doctor he will just give me

more

> > antibiotics again, and I just can't take anymore, i am at my

wits

> > end with all this stuff.

> >

> Tammy,

> I'm in the same boat now myself. I had several infections last

year

> and the antibiotics I took have contributed to the Candida

problems

> I'm facing now.

>

> I've been searching the internet but so far have not found an

answer.

> I tend to get some level of irritation almost every month. A lot

of

> times I find that using an acidophilus gel cap vaginally helps

but

> this time I think its a bacterial infection. I did read that if

you

> leave a bacterial infection untreated it can lead to pelvic

> inflamatory disease so I plan to call the doctor Monday. I do

know I

> do better taking a vaginal antibiotic cream rather than an oral

> antibiotic, at least then you're killing the bacteria (good and

bad)

> in only one part of the body. After that I would definitely

follow up

> with the acidophilus!

>

December 7, 2006

hi, sorry, I thought you were talking regular yeast infections not bacterial

infections. but the grapefruit seed extract works miracles for yeast

infections. Rose

thealtarx <thealtarx@...> wrote: hi girls. try douching with

water and 10 to 15 drops of grapefruit