Guest guest Posted March 8, 2010 Report Share Posted March 8, 2010 Once again, becuase this " drug " is marketed as a fertility treatment, we are forced to pay outrageous amounts of money for this substance which is naturally produced in abundance by menopausal women. HMG has small amounts of both LH and FSH in it, and it is distilled from the urine of menopausal women which there happens to be absolutly no shortage of and thus a potentially very good supply. I have used HMG over the course of my dealing with Hypogonadism, and I think it is superior to HCG for treating secondary hypogonadism for a couple of reasons. First, HCG merely acts as a LH analog in driving the leydig cells to produce testosterone. HCG is not naturally produced by the male body, and it is not produced naturally in the female body except after successfull fertilization of an egg. You can test any HCG that you might purchase with a common home pregancy test to see if you are getting duped. LH on the other hand is what your pituitary gland releases and it is direct match for the LH receptors in the male body. Secondly, and man who has true secondary hypogonadism is also going to have next to zero FSH and thus very low sperm count. Some inccorectly believe that HCG drives sperm production, but this is not true. HCG only works in the male body as a first line of fertility treatment due to the fact that HCG raises the actual testosterone within the testicle itself which creates a sperm freindly environment. HCG does not work on the FSH receptors in the sertoli cells, and thus can not trigger and drive actual sperm production. So with HMG which has small amounts of both LH and FSH a mans testicles are going to be stimulated to produce both testosterone and sperm cells which take place almost concurrently in the natural healthy non hypo male. Before I go on, it only makes sence to point out what to many members is obvious, HMG will not do a true primary hypo man any good. Phil and I have weighed in on this before, and I would just pose this question--in the male body and as part of the male reproductive endocrinnlogy, are the only cells that respond to FSH and LH confined to the testicles? If not, those of us who are strictly on exogenous T are logically missing out on something that normal men experience through out the cycle of the male pituitary gland. So in theory HMG in the case of a true case of secondary hypo is going to drive a mans testicles to produce some of his own testosterone as well as sperm. As a mans relative ejacualate volume often plays a part in the intensity of his orgasam, it is entirely possible that HMG would contribute to more intense sexual pleasure. It is often reported that male porn legends often took clomid on a regular basis to increase ejaculate volume, and there are so called " natural " formulas which allegedly increase ejaculate volume and thus increase the intensity of the male orgasam. How much of this is marketing and how much of this is truth, I have no idea, but I have dabled with HMG enough to know that there is something to the ejaculate volume being tied to sexual pleasure/orgasam intensity. However, with HMG the only doses that I have been able to find are 75 IU's, and how much any given male would need to be able to experince a significan jump in native T production and increased number of sperm is a case where your guess is as good as mine. Having used HMG before, I will say that if I could get the stuff on a regular basis, I would use it instead of HCG. If cost were not an issue, I would think the ideal thing for us secondary hypo males would be to have a mixture of LH and FSH injected on a regular basis in some kind of proportion that mimics what the pituitary gland does naturally when it is functioning properly. Once again we are being ripped off by big pharma and the collusion between the FDA and big pharma. There is absolutely no shortage of female menopausal urine, and the distilation process has been around for decades and is very low tech. HMG and HCG can not be pantented. Therefore aside from the exorbitant and explotive markups that are allowed becuase HMG and to a lesser extend HCG are " fertilty treatments " , what should be very inexpenseive and readily available is actually very expensive and hard to get. If you want to try HMG probably your best option is to get someone who has some left over from a fertilty treatment and then try it out for yourself. However, I have done this long enough to suspect that providing ones testicles are up to the chore, driving them with LH and FSH is going to be superior to just exogenous testosterone for treating secondary hypo for a number of reasons not all of which really matter to your doctor or to your health plan. And of course, your mileage may vary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 Very good points made there and it is all about money now we have this HCG diet out there using up all the HCG out there from time to time and you can't get it after the first of the yr. when everyone it trying to lose weight. Dr. talks about HMG from time to time and only has good things to say about it. But he dose not use it for every man that is Secondary. Her is what he says about HCG it's a copy of a post to me to get my Dr. to let me try HCG as you read this you will see being on TRT shuts down any LH and FSH messages sent to your body, testis and brain. And he feel every man on TRT should be on HCG to keep the LH cells working. ==================================================== He probably feels that since you suffer primary hypogonadism (I am guessing) there is no use in adding HCG to your protocol. There are several reasons why this is not so. First, you have not lost all Leydig cells, so any HCG you take will stimulate those who still function to produce endogenous testosterone. This will support testicular size. We should not ignore this aesthetic consideration. Next, if he reads my work, he will learn that HPTA-suppressed (as all TRT patients are to some extent) also suffer decreased pregenenolone levels, which is the first step after CHOL in all three hormonal pathways which begin with CHOL. HCG increases pregnenolone production, and therefore restores a more natural balance of our hormones. Next, nearly all TRT patients who add in HCG to their regimens report an increased sense of well-being and also libido. These are genuine quality of life issues. Finally, I just instinctively do not want all those LH receptors (including those we have yet to discover and appreciate) unstimulated. ---------------------------------------------------- And this study supports what he feels about this. http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/90/5/2595 Trying to find out brand names for this human menopausal gonadotropins HMG is very hard and doing a search on cost is a waste of time. I even went to ADC to see if the sell it and nope. Co-Moderator Phil > From: sbryant511 <sbryant511@...> > Subject: Use of HMG > > Date: Tuesday, March 9, 2010, 12:23 AM > Once again, becuase this " drug " is > marketed as a fertility treatment, we are forced to pay > outrageous amounts of money for this substance which is > naturally produced in abundance by menopausal women. > > HMG has small amounts of both LH and FSH in it, and it is > distilled from the urine of menopausal women which there > happens to be absolutly no shortage of and thus a > potentially very good supply. > > I have used HMG over the course of my dealing with > Hypogonadism, and I think it is superior to HCG for treating > secondary hypogonadism for a couple of reasons. First, > HCG merely acts as a LH analog in driving the leydig cells > to produce testosterone. HCG is not naturally produced > by the male body, and it is not produced naturally in the > female body except after successfull fertilization of an > egg. You can test any HCG that you might purchase with a > common home pregancy test to see if you are getting duped. > > LH on the other hand is what your pituitary gland releases > and it is direct match for the LH receptors in the male > body. Secondly, and man who has true secondary > hypogonadism is also going to have next to zero FSH and thus > very low sperm count. > > Some inccorectly believe that HCG drives sperm production, > but this is not true. HCG only works in the male body > as a first line of fertility treatment due to the fact that > HCG raises the actual testosterone within the testicle > itself which creates a sperm freindly environment. HCG > does not work on the FSH receptors in the sertoli cells, and > thus can not trigger and drive actual sperm production. > > So with HMG which has small amounts of both LH and FSH a > mans testicles are going to be stimulated to produce both > testosterone and sperm cells which take place almost > concurrently in the natural healthy non hypo male. > > Before I go on, it only makes sence to point out what to > many members is obvious, HMG will not do a true primary hypo > man any good. > > Phil and I have weighed in on this before, and I would just > pose this question--in the male body and as part of the male > reproductive endocrinnlogy, are the only cells that respond > to FSH and LH confined to the testicles? If not, those > of us who are strictly on exogenous T are logically missing > out on something that normal men experience through out the > cycle of the male pituitary gland. > > So in theory HMG in the case of a true case of secondary > hypo is going to drive a mans testicles to produce some of > his own testosterone as well as sperm. As a mans > relative ejacualate volume often plays a part in the > intensity of his orgasam, it is entirely possible that HMG > would contribute to more intense sexual pleasure. It > is often reported that male porn legends often took clomid > on a regular basis to increase ejaculate volume, and there > are so called " natural " formulas which allegedly increase > ejaculate volume and thus increase the intensity of the male > orgasam. How much of this is marketing and how much of > this is truth, I have no idea, but I have dabled with HMG > enough to know that there is something to the ejaculate > volume being tied to sexual pleasure/orgasam intensity. > > However, with HMG the only doses that I have been able to > find are 75 IU's, and how much any given male would need to > be able to experince a significan jump in native T > production and increased number of sperm is a case where > your guess is as good as mine. > > Having used HMG before, I will say that if I could get the > stuff on a regular basis, I would use it instead of > HCG. If cost were not an issue, I would think the > ideal thing for us secondary hypo males would be to have a > mixture of LH and FSH injected on a regular basis in some > kind of proportion that mimics what the pituitary gland does > naturally when it is functioning properly. > > Once again we are being ripped off by big pharma and the > collusion between the FDA and big pharma. There is > absolutely no shortage of female menopausal urine, and the > distilation process has been around for decades and is very > low tech. HMG and HCG can not be pantented. Therefore > aside from the exorbitant and explotive markups that are > allowed becuase HMG and to a lesser extend HCG are " fertilty > treatments " , what should be very inexpenseive and readily > available is actually very expensive and hard to get. > > > If you want to try HMG probably your best option is to get > someone who has some left over from a fertilty treatment and > then try it out for yourself. However, I have done > this long enough to suspect that providing ones testicles > are up to the chore, driving them with LH and FSH is going > to be superior to just exogenous testosterone for treating > secondary hypo for a number of reasons not all of which > really matter to your doctor or to your health plan. > > > And of course, your mileage may vary. > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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