Re: Help! - have low T using androgel want alternative

[Guest guest]

This is not a long term solution and herbs stop working after a few weeks and

need to be cycled. The proper way is to use HCG at 200-250 every other day or

Every 3rd day to keep the testicles full. Pleae be aware that hcg can raise

testosterone levels as well as potentially estrodial as well that needs to be

monitored by your dr. HCG can also deplete cortisol pathways resulting in

decrease of adrenal hormones (HCG, DHEA. People with adrenal issues I would

proceed with caution because there surplus is already low.

>

> Heard about something called " TONGKAT ALI " that is supposed to raise T levels.

>

> currently using adrogel but looking for an alternative cause of shrinkage

(testes etc)

>

> Has anyone ever heard or tried this for low T?

>

> VERY interested in knowing anyone's experiences. Thnx

>

[Guest guest]

If your testis are getting small on TRT it's because your brain sees the added T

in your blood and stops sending the LH and FSH messages to your testis that tell

them to make more T.

So what most of us now to on TRT after we are leveled off and know we have good

lower levels of Estraidol. We add in HCG on gels you do a 250 IU's shot every 3

days. On Test C shots every week we do 250 IU's the 2 days each just before the

next T shot. Doing this HCG acts like LH and makes your Testis make

Testosterone to the best they can. And this help keep your levels up until your

next shot.

Go to Dr. 's site www.allthingsmale.com and read TRT: A Recipe for Success

and his HCG update.

Also here is copy of a post to me from Dr. to help me get my Dr. to let me

try HCG. I was on TRT 23 yrs and my Testis were the size of small grapes.

Going on HCG I found out I am not Primary my Testis worked my TT levels doubled

on HCG telling my Dr. I am not Primary but I am Secondary meaning my Pituitary

dose not work.

===================================================

He probably feels that since you suffer primary hypogonadism (I am guessing)

there is no use in adding HCG to your protocol. There are several reasons why

this is not so. First, you have not lost all Leydig cells, so any HCG you take

will stimulate those who still function to produce endogenous testosterone.

This will support testicular size. We should not ignore this aesthetic

consideration.

Next, if he reads my work, he will learn that HPTA-suppressed (as all TRT

patients are to some extent) also suffer decreased pregenenolone levels, which

is the first step after CHOL in all three hormonal pathways which begin with

CHOL. HCG increases pregnenolone production, and therefore restores a more

natural balance of our hormones.

Next, nearly all TRT patients who add in HCG to their regimens report an

increased sense of well-being and also libido. These are genuine quality of life

issues.

Finally, I just instinctively do not want all those LH receptors (including

those we have yet to discover and appreciate) unstimulated.

--------------------------------------------------

And this link supports what Dr. dose.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/90/5/2595

Please don't waste your health buying some supplement that you don't even know

is the real thing there is just to much jumk slow out there.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: emeril2002bam <austnpqwrs@...>

> Subject: Help! - have low T using androgel want alternative

>

> Date: Thursday, January 6, 2011, 6:34 AM

> Heard about something called " TONGKAT

> ALI " that is supposed to raise T levels.

>

> currently using adrogel but looking for an alternative

> cause of shrinkage (testes etc)

>

> Has anyone ever heard or tried this for low T?

>

> VERY interested in knowing anyone's experiences.

> Thnx

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you hardasnails1973 for your reply. What is this HCG? is this something

my doctor prescribes? Ill talk to my doctor about it. Is there anything else

that you would suggest? Becuase i am satisfied with androgel but after using it

for over 10yrs i do notice smaller testes and penis and since i still have half

of my life left to live i dont want my junk to disappear into oblivium.

> >

> > Heard about something called " TONGKAT ALI " that is supposed to raise T

levels.

> >

> > currently using adrogel but looking for an alternative cause of shrinkage

(testes etc)

> >

> > Has anyone ever heard or tried this for low T?

> >

> > VERY interested in knowing anyone's experiences. Thnx

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks so much phil for your info... im going to look into this... because i

think i might also fall into the same situation- they didnt find anything wrong

with my pituatary so they figured/guessed that it was secondary and trying this

may identify whether im primary or secondary. Another question if you dont

mind... now that you discovered that your primary not secondary does that change

anything in terms of the type of therapy ? is it still the same (HRT) or is it

only HCG now? since your testes do work and can produce its own T. Thanks

again for your help and your anticipated response.

Al

>

> > From: emeril2002bam <austnpqwrs@...>

> > Subject: Help! - have low T using androgel want alternative

> >

> > Date: Thursday, January 6, 2011, 6:34 AM

> > Heard about something called " TONGKAT

> > ALI " that is supposed to raise T levels.

> >

> > currently using adrogel but looking for an alternative

> > cause of shrinkage (testes etc)

> >

> > Has anyone ever heard or tried this for low T?

> >

> > VERY interested in knowing anyone's experiences.

> > Thnx

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Thanks so much phil for your info... im going to look into this... because i

think i might also fall into the same situation- they didnt find anything wrong

with my pituatary so they figured/guessed that it was secondary and trying this

may identify whether im primary or secondary. Another question if you dont

mind... now that you discovered that your primary not secondary does that change

anything in terms of the type of therapy ? is it still the same (HRT) or is it

only HCG now? since your testes do work and can produce its own T. Thanks

again for your help and your anticipated response.

Al

>

> > From: emeril2002bam <austnpqwrs@...>

> > Subject: Help! - have low T using androgel want alternative

> >

> > Date: Thursday, January 6, 2011, 6:34 AM

> > Heard about something called " TONGKAT

> > ALI " that is supposed to raise T levels.

> >

> > currently using adrogel but looking for an alternative

> > cause of shrinkage (testes etc)

> >

> > Has anyone ever heard or tried this for low T?

> >

> > VERY interested in knowing anyone's experiences.

> > Thnx

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Yes your dr can prescibe it but you need to have estrodial in check before

commencing because it can overs stimulate the aromatase in the testicles which

some men are highly sensitive too. You can also use HMG which is difficult to

get covered byinsurance. Right now I am getting ready to put a few patients on

this in hope of avoiding the estrodial fluctuations. With HCG it may not be for

you do to the flucutation in e2 which then would need another drug to offset it

which causes more variables to deal with. I like to get a clincal response with

least amount of variables to content with. I prefer changing one variable at a

time then measuring the response. If e2 is incheck then I would start with 100

ius EOD then measure your response in 3 labs in 4 weeks as well as keep an eye

open for decreased libido or nipple sensitivty. Then is all well goto 250 ius

every 3rd day for 3 weeks then remeasure if still no issue hen 250 ius EOD. May

be 250 every 3 day may be enough. I can not emphasis test then measure response

then increase test again. Slow and steady is the best approach then shot gun

approach

>

> Thank you hardasnails1973 for your reply. What is this HCG? is this

something my doctor prescribes? Ill talk to my doctor about it. Is there

anything else that you would suggest? Becuase i am satisfied with androgel but

after using it for over 10yrs i do notice smaller testes and penis and since i

still have half of my life left to live i dont want my junk to disappear into

oblivium.

>

[Guest guest]

Hardasnails1973,

Thanks again for your valuable information. i will discuss both of these

options with my dr. I have an appointment with him this week. Hardasnails1973,

if you dont mind i have another question for you. There was a response to my

post and in that response the writer mentioned something that resembled my

situation. The androgel is helping me in lots of areas such as the constant

tired feeling low libido and lack of focus concentration as well as a few broken

bones etc. So i am happy with androgel (with the excepton of skrinkage)

However, this writer wrote soemthing about soft erections and arimdex. I must

admit, although i have errections unlike when i was not on andrgel i do notice

that the erections are not as hard as i recall when i was younger. Is soft

erections common even with people on androgel?

Just feeling better and actually getting erections i was happy with the androgel

but i got to admit that my erections arent as strong as i remembered or as

strong as i would like. Any info you can offer on soft erections would be

aprecaited. i thought arimdex was for lowering estradail /estrigen in men not

for stengthening erections.

Many Thanks,

emeril

> >

> > Thank you hardasnails1973 for your reply. What is this HCG? is this

something my doctor prescribes? Ill talk to my doctor about it. Is there

anything else that you would suggest? Becuase i am satisfied with androgel but

after using it for over 10yrs i do notice smaller testes and penis and since i

still have half of my life left to live i dont want my junk to disappear into

oblivium.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

When dealing with erection on needs to look at the balance of hormones, thyroid,

adrenals, and neurotransmitters. If one is out it can cause a horrible cascade

affect. This is why it is crucial to understand the interaction of hormones and

neurotransmitters. I have several people where hormones are perfect and still

have ED or erectile quality. In these cases i will look at the brain and other

areas that have not been explored by previous dr to rule out any imbalnace that

may be lingering it. People that start hcg may feel a sense of well being from

its activation of LH receptors with in the brain. As i have been noticing people

with adrenal fatgue need to proceed with caution as hcg can stimulate several

hormonal pathways causing depletion on already low reserve.

> > >

> > > Thank you hardasnails1973 for your reply. What is this HCG? is this

something my doctor prescribes? Ill talk to my doctor about it. Is there

anything else that you would suggest? Becuase i am satisfied with androgel but

after using it for over 10yrs i do notice smaller testes and penis and since i

still have half of my life left to live i dont want my junk to disappear into

oblivium.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you Hardasnail1973!

Hey if you practice out of the northern NJ area, let me know. Yo sound very

knowledgable. I just recently found a new doctor after searching for months.

He is not the doctor who initially diagnozed me (he moved his practice) so all

the initial workup was done about 10 yrs ago. I havent gone into these details

yet with the new doctor, i was just very happy to have found a new doctor that

understands the qualty of life issues not having enough T can bring (

hopefully, when i bring it up to him this week, he has that same detective sort

of instinct that you have in identifying the " true " cause) So i am interested

in going through this again to see if anything was unclear readings etc that may

now indicate primary vs secondary or maybe an entirely different cause that is

effecting my T levels. I really really appreciate all the value insight.

> > > >

> > > > Thank you hardasnails1973 for your reply. What is this HCG? is this

something my doctor prescribes? Ill talk to my doctor about it. Is there

anything else that you would suggest? Becuase i am satisfied with androgel but

after using it for over 10yrs i do notice smaller testes and penis and since i

still have half of my life left to live i dont want my junk to disappear into

oblivium.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I'm actually located out side king of prussia pa. Just ask any woman about king

of prussia plaza they will know where it is LOL. You can contact through my

email on here. If you dr is interested in looking for root cause we could work

together to narrowing down where the imbalance are with minimal testing. With my

clincal experience handling complex cases I could suggest some avenues which to

explore. I have seen it all from EMF causing genetic mutation, hidden infection,

unbalanced inner terrain, liver pathway imbalance, neurotransmitters, heavy

metals. The nice part is that you do not have to do dozens of test arrive at

the answer. As mention before taking a comprehensive approach with in a matter

of 3-4 weeks I will have all the data I need to know where to begin. People

that have been sick for years are relieved to have some kind of explaination

validated by clincal proof.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thank you hardasnails1973 for your reply. What is this HCG? is this

something my doctor prescribes? Ill talk to my doctor about it. Is there

anything else that you would suggest? Becuase i am satisfied with androgel but

after using it for over 10yrs i do notice smaller testes and penis and since i

still have half of my life left to live i dont want my junk to disappear into

oblivium.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hey i may be interested in doing that directly with you. I just did a google

maps and i see that king of prussia is near philly. Thats not to far away at

all. If i would decide to work with you on this, how many times during the 3-4

week period would i need to head out there to you in PA? Secondly, would this

be something covered by Insurance if not, what would something like this cost to

do this kind of analysis? Do you have weekend hrs?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thank you hardasnails1973 for your reply. What is this HCG? is

this something my doctor prescribes? Ill talk to my doctor about it. Is there

anything else that you would suggest? Becuase i am satisfied with androgel but

after using it for over 10yrs i do notice smaller testes and penis and since i

still have half of my life left to live i dont want my junk to disappear into

oblivium.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

You can contact me through my email for details. I am available on weekends.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thank you hardasnails1973 for your reply. What is this HCG? is

this something my doctor prescribes? Ill talk to my doctor about it. Is there

anything else that you would suggest? Becuase i am satisfied with androgel but

after using it for over 10yrs i do notice smaller testes and penis and since i

still have half of my life left to live i dont want my junk to disappear into

oblivium.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Al,

I think you said this wrong I am not Primary I am Secondary it took me 23 yrs

being told I am Primary to find out I am Secondary from a head injury due to an

Auto Accident.

And yes the treatment is different now they treat my low normal Cortisol,

Thyroid, Aldsoterone, Ferritin and Iron levels. Also my low Growth Hormone

levels but I can't take GH the sides are to much for me.

HCG helped me to figure out I am not Primary I am Secondary because HCG acts

like the LH and FSH messages sent to your testis that tells them to make

Testosterone.

Getting my Dr. to let me try HCG going on 500 IU's 3x's / week doing labs after

the 15th. shot of HCG my Total T levels went from 600 to 1200 at the time the

lab my Dr. used the top of the range for TT was 1595.

So my testis jumped in there and made 600 points of Testosterone telling us I am

Secondary what I have is called Hypopituitary.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: emeril2002bam <austnpqwrs@...>

> Subject: Re: Help! - have low T using androgel want alternative

>

> Date: Saturday, January 8, 2011, 10:29 PM

> Thanks so much phil for your info...

> im going to look into this... because i think i might also

> fall into the same situation- they didnt find anything wrong

> with my pituatary so they figured/guessed that it was

> secondary and trying this may identify whether im primary or

> secondary.  Another question if you dont mind... now

> that you discovered that your primary not secondary does

> that change anything in terms of the type of therapy ? is it

> still the same (HRT) or is it only HCG now?  since your

> testes do work and can produce its own T.  Thanks again

> for your help and your anticipated response.

>

> Al

>

>

> >

> > > From: emeril2002bam <austnpqwrs@...>

> > > Subject: Help! - have low T using

> androgel want alternative

> > >

> > > Date: Thursday, January 6, 2011, 6:34 AM

> > > Heard about something called " TONGKAT

> > > ALI " that is supposed to raise T levels.

> > >

> > > currently using adrogel but looking for an

> alternative

> > > cause of shrinkage (testes etc)

> > >

> > > Has anyone ever heard or tried this for low T?

> > >

> > > VERY interested in knowing anyone's experiences.

>

> > > Thnx

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Most men on TRT or needing TRT don't have soft or weak wood. My TT levels were

120 and I had sex 2 to 3 times a week. I did not feel like it but made it a

point to have it. It was after getting older and being on TRT that I lost my

wood get some bad ED problems. I suffered from this for about 10 yrs until I

found out about high levels of Estraidol. It's not the Arimidex that gives you

your wood back it's getting your high levels of Estraidol down. You don't need

Arimidex to do this you can get it down using a supplement called Indolplex/DIM.

One needs to test this before trying to lower it on Arimidex or Indolplex/DIM is

your levels are not to high and you drive them to low it's just as bad as being

to high.

http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: emeril2002bam <austnpqwrs@...>

> Subject: Re: Help! - have low T using androgel want alternative

>

> Date: Saturday, January 8, 2011, 11:27 PM

> Hardasnails1973,

>

> Thanks again for your valuable information.  i will

> discuss both of these options with my dr.  I have an

> appointment with him this week.  Hardasnails1973, if

> you dont mind i have another question for you.  There

> was a response to my post and in that response the writer

> mentioned something that resembled my situation.  The

> androgel is helping me in lots of areas such as the constant

> tired feeling low libido and lack of focus concentration as

> well as a few broken bones etc.  So i am happy with

> androgel (with the excepton of skrinkage)

>

> However, this writer wrote soemthing about soft erections

> and arimdex.  I must admit, although i have errections

> unlike when i was not on andrgel i do notice that the

> erections are not as hard as i recall when i was

> younger.  Is soft erections common even with people on

> androgel? 

>

> Just feeling better and actually getting erections i was

> happy with the androgel but i got to admit that my erections

> arent as strong as i remembered or as strong as i would

> like.  Any info you can offer on soft erections would

> be aprecaited.  i thought arimdex was for lowering

> estradail /estrigen in men not for stengthening erections.

>

> Many Thanks,

> emeril

>

>

>

>

> > >

> > > Thank you hardasnails1973 for your reply. 

> What is this HCG?  is this something my doctor

> prescribes?  Ill talk to my doctor about it.  Is

> there anything else that you would suggest?  Becuase i

> am satisfied with androgel but after using it for over 10yrs

> i do notice smaller testes and penis and since i still have

> half of my life left to live i dont want my junk to

> disappear into oblivium.

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

I can concur when my levels where TT 150-200 i can perform like a champ and even

through this whole time with adrenal, thyroid, and gut issues, high e2 never had

a problem. I think the problem may have another underlying cause. Few times with

high e2 I had faster ejaculation then normal, but other then that I never had an

issue.

> > > >

> > > > Thank you hardasnails1973 for your reply. 

> > What is this HCG?  is this something my doctor

> > prescribes?  Ill talk to my doctor about it.  Is

> > there anything else that you would suggest?  Becuase i

> > am satisfied with androgel but after using it for over 10yrs

> > i do notice smaller testes and penis and since i still have

> > half of my life left to live i dont want my junk to

> > disappear into oblivium.

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Strange you would say this about feelings of well being starting on HCG. Lowing

cortisol levels this was not the case with me it helped my low Cortisol levels.

But then my Adrenals work good just don't get told to work. Adding HCG my

Cortisol labs on HC meds went up from 9 to 12.

Dr. sent me this reply to a post I did yrs ago to get my Dr. to let me use

HCG.

He says " HCG increases pregnenolone production, and therefore restores a more

natural balance of our hormones. " I feel today we both know Preg. helps with

Cortisol levels. And HCG can increase Preg. levels.

====================================================

He probably feels that since you suffer primary hypogonadism (I am guessing)

there is no use in adding HCG to your protocol. There are several reasons why

this is not so. First, you have not lost all Leydig cells, so any HCG you take

will stimulate those who still function to produce endogenous testosterone.

This will support testicular size. We should not ignore this aesthetic

consideration.

Next, if he reads my work, he will learn that HPTA-suppressed (as all TRT

patients are to some extent) also suffer decreased pregenenolone levels, which

is the first step after CHOL in all three hormonal pathways which begin with

CHOL. HCG increases pregnenolone production, and therefore restores a more

natural balance of our hormones.

Next, nearly all TRT patients who add in HCG to their regimens report an

increased sense of well-being and also libido. These are genuine quality of life

issues.

Finally, I just instinctively do not want all those LH receptors (including

those we have yet to discover and appreciate) unstimulated.

Read more from the MESO-Rx Steroid Forum at:

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/swale-your-hcg-protocl-13423447\

2.html#ixzz1AYm6xnXn

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: hardasnails1973 <hardasnails1973@...>

> Subject: Re: Help! - have low T using androgel want alternative

>

> Date: Saturday, January 8, 2011, 11:54 PM

>

> When dealing with erection on needs to look at the balance

> of hormones, thyroid, adrenals, and neurotransmitters. 

> If one is out it can cause a horrible cascade affect. 

> This is why it is crucial to understand the interaction of

> hormones and neurotransmitters.  I have several people

> where hormones are perfect and still have ED or erectile

> quality. In these cases i will look at the brain and other

> areas that have not been explored by previous dr to rule out

> any imbalnace that may be lingering it. People that start

> hcg may feel a sense of well being from its activation of LH

> receptors with in the brain. As i have been noticing people

> with adrenal fatgue need to proceed with caution as hcg can

> stimulate several hormonal pathways causing depletion on

> already low reserve.

>

> > > >

> > > > Thank you hardasnails1973 for your

> reply.  What is this HCG?  is this something my

> doctor prescribes?  Ill talk to my doctor about

> it.  Is there anything else that you would

> suggest?  Becuase i am satisfied with androgel but

> after using it for over 10yrs i do notice smaller testes and

> penis and since i still have half of my life left to live i

> dont want my junk to disappear into oblivium.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>