Re: What else to consider?

[Guest guest]

Estradiol levels are up this takes away anygood the Test Shots are doing. See

if you can find some DIM in your country.

================================================

ALL ABOUT DIM.

Sure here is a few links that are all about it. But there are a lot of Co.'s

out there selling DIM that don't work well. Indolplex/DIM is the best it dose

not get killed in your stomach when you take it.

Diindolylmethane (DIM) is a stable indole found in cruciferous vegetables which

promotes a beneficial estrogen metabolism in both women and men.

http://www.dimfaq.com/index.htm

in this link it's full of links about it.

http://qualitycounts.com/fpdim.html

http://www.jbc.org/content/278/23/21136.full

If you have DIM in caps it's not Indolplex so to take this and to get it to work

open the cap pore the DIM into a spoon add some Olive oil and take it this helps

to keep it from getting killed in your stomach.

The following is some links to where you can buy Indolplex/DIM.

http://www.vitaglo.com/e5336.html

http://www.vitacost.com/EnzymaticTherapyEstroBalancewithDIM/searchby-PN/searchte\

xt-dim

http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0

http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0

http://www.estrobalance.net/

http://www.easyhealthzone.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=PP0108 & click=71

http://www.nbizz.com/longevityclinic/listings/213.html

http://www.drugnatural.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD & Store_Code=DMOS & Product_\

Code=156497

http://www.smartbomb.com/itindo9.html?utm_source=mercent & utm_medium=shopcompare & \

utm_content=itindo9 & utm_campaign=mbsdb & mr:trackingCode=C6AEFBD1-E681-DE11-B7F3-0\

019B9C043EB & mr:referralID=NA

http://www.ritecare.com/cgi-bin/cart.pl?db=product_db.dat & category=natural+medic\

ine & method=any_words & search=iti-75336

http://www.naturamart.com/phytopharmica-pms-formula-with-indoplex-120-caps.html

How to take Indolplex/DIM take one tablet 120 mgs at dinner time it can take 2

weeks to 2 months to get your Estradiol levels down it’s all about how high

you are in your levels. What you need to do is get

this down to about 20 pg/ml. When you get this low your night time and morning

wood will come back so strong it will wake you up this means most of the time

your at your best levels or what I call the sweet spot. Keep taking the DIM but

if your wood stops your going down to low so just stop taking it. The day your

wood comes back go back on the DIM but cut the tablet in half. If your

Testosterone was tested and low but your not on TRT get it tested again you

might find your levels came up some 200 to 300 points.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174

Here is a cut and paste why Dr. feels we need to take TMG with DIM.

I have seen several studies which showed that while DIM improves the

2-OHE/16-a-OHE ratio, it also increases the bad 4-OHE. TMG, or its child DMG

(although TMG is much better because it has already donated a valuable methyl

group by the time it becomes DMG) will help flush the 4-OHE downstream.

Taking TMG/DMG is important on its own, even in absence of DIM supplementation.

But I would not take DIM without it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\

---------------------

The following is what Dr. nco says about lowing E2 with DIM and other

things.

My interpretation of the above articles is that:

1. DIM blocks DHT from binding to androgen-receptors in the Prostate. This is a

good thing - it reduces the risk of prostate cancer from testosterone

replacement therapy.

2. DIM does not stop the production of DHT. For DIM to do so, it has to inhibit

the reductase enzyme that converts testosterone to DHT. The articles do not

indicate that this is occurring.

In regard to how DIM works, it blocks certain Cytochrome P450 enzymes in the

liver which convert Estrogens to more proliferative, cancerous types of

estrogens. This forces the liver to use other pathways, which convert estrogens

to non-proliferative, safer, and less potent estrogens. Thus, overall estrogen

activity is reduced by DIM.

Arimidex blocks the aromatase enzyme that converts testosterone to estrogens,

thus lowering the production of estrogens and thus lowering estrogen activity.

There are other substances which also block the aromatase enzyme - including

6-OXO (an over-the-counter supplement), Aromasin, etc..

Which do you want to use? Either choice is valid. It will depend on the

individual's response, how easy it is to control estrogen activity, cost, etc.

Other factors:

1. Arimidex is by prescription and is very expensive.

2. 6-OXO is over-the-counter, but dosing guidelines are not clear.

3. DIM is over-the-counter, is relatively expensive for what you get. There are

pitfalls - such as " DIM-complex " - which water down the DIM concentration by

adding additives.

4. Broccoli and I3C - both precursors to DIM can be used. But they require you

to avoid antacids, needing acidity in the stomach to break them down and create

DIM.

In any case, you will have to monitor your estrogen levels via blood testing to

determine how much of each you want to use.

__________________

Any statement I make on this site is for educational purposes only and will

change as medical knowledge progresses. It does not constitute medical advice,

does not substitute for proper medical evaluation from physician, does not

create a doctor/patient relationship or liability. If you would like medical

advice, please ask your doctor. Thank you.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: <chrisjtaylor46@...>

> Subject: What else to consider?

>

> Date: Saturday, April 2, 2011, 2:32 PM

> Hi all

>

> I have been on TRT since just before christmas.  once

> the first jab (sust 250) kicked in i felt good, then it wore

> off and it's been a roller coaster, and now i feel pretty

> bad most of the time. i've noticed my hair's getting

> thinner.

>

> what else should I consider treatment for?  E2? 

> growth hormone?  i never respond to thyroid and i'm not

> sure about adrenals - was on hc for about 18 months and i

> thought it helped but not sure now.

>

> i feel so tired, depressed, no 'wood' etc usually. 

>

> i am considering seeing Dr H i belgium, but that is $$$,

> but then i guess he'd sort things out?

>

> thanks

>

> chris

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

thanks Phil

I got some DIM here, i think it's an ok brand.

problem is, if i go to see Dr H then i need to start the urine 24 hr test

tomorrow, and get bloods done on monday am. ttaking dim will distort all this

won't it?

>

> Estradiol levels are up this takes away anygood the Test Shots are doing. See

if you can find some DIM in your country.

> ================================================

> ALL ABOUT DIM.

> Sure here is a few links that are all about it. But there are a lot of Co.'s

out there selling DIM that don't work well. Indolplex/DIM is the best it dose

not get killed in your stomach when you take it.

> Diindolylmethane (DIM) is a stable indole found in cruciferous vegetables

which promotes a beneficial estrogen metabolism in both women and men.

> http://www.dimfaq.com/index.htm

> in this link it's full of links about it.

> http://qualitycounts.com/fpdim.html

> http://www.jbc.org/content/278/23/21136.full

> If you have DIM in caps it's not Indolplex so

[Guest guest]

If your sure you need to see him then don't do the dim but if you try this and

feel better then you don't need to see him it's up to you.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: <chrisjtaylor46@...>

> Subject: Re: What else to consider?

>

> Date: Saturday, April 2, 2011, 2:48 PM

> thanks Phil

>

> I got some DIM here, i think it's an ok brand.

>

> problem is, if i go to see Dr H then i need to start the

> urine 24 hr test tomorrow, and get bloods done on monday

> am.  ttaking dim will distort all this won't it?

>

>

>

>

> >

> > Estradiol levels are up this takes away anygood the

> Test Shots are doing.  See if you can find some DIM in

> your country.

> > ================================================

> >   ALL  ABOUT DIM.

> > Sure here is a few links that are all about it. 

> But there are a lot of Co.'s out there selling DIM that

> don't work well.  Indolplex/DIM is the best it dose not

> get killed in your stomach when you take it.

> > Diindolylmethane (DIM) is a stable indole found in

> cruciferous vegetables which promotes a beneficial estrogen

> metabolism in both women and men.

> > http://www.dimfaq.com/index.htm

> > in this link it's full of links about it.

> > http://qualitycounts.com/fpdim.html

> > http://www.jbc.org/content/278/23/21136.full

> > If you have DIM in caps it's not Indolplex so

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

i think there might be other stuff going on as well though, that's the problem.

by that I mean i wonder about low growth hormone - i have symptoms of not having

enough of that.

i don't know enough to treat with growth hormone, don't know anything about it.

i think adrenals, thyroid, isn't that hard to treat with, but GH seems harder,

it's also very expensive. correct me if i'm wrong?

mind you, when i first started T shots, i did feel well. maybe i do/don't have

low growth hormone, but for whatever reason earlier in the year i did feel very

well. presumably T doesn't stimulate GH? i don't want to lose my hair either,

it seems be thinning more lately.

>

> If your sure you need to see him then don't do the dim but if you try this and

feel better then you don't need to see him it's up to you.

> Co-Moderator

> Phil

>

[Guest guest]

GH takes a hit when other hormones are off you need to be balanced good on every

thing then test GH it can come back up mine did.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: <chrisjtaylor46@...>

> Subject: Re: What else to consider?

>

> Date: Saturday, April 2, 2011, 3:27 PM

> i think there might be other stuff

> going on as well though, that's the problem.  by that I

> mean i wonder about low growth hormone - i have symptoms of

> not having enough of that.

>

> i don't know enough to treat with growth hormone, don't

> know anything about it.  i think adrenals, thyroid,

> isn't that hard to treat with, but GH seems harder, it's

> also very expensive.  correct me if i'm wrong?

>

> mind you, when i first started T shots, i did feel

> well.   maybe i do/don't have low growth

> hormone, but for whatever reason earlier in the year i did

> feel very well.  presumably T doesn't stimulate

> GH?  i don't want to lose my hair either, it seems be

> thinning more lately.

>

>

>

>

> >

> > If your sure you need to see him then don't do the dim

> but if you try this and feel better then you don't need to

> see him it's up to you.

> > Co-Moderator

> > Phil

> >

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

can too high or too low cortisol affect GH too?

i think another dr i mailed once said that GH is the last thing that she

prescribes - she looked at everything else first and she said something sijmilr

to you ie that it'd come back up by itself

problem is trying to work out all this stuff by yourself

plus i'm also thinking what if i have a genetic or inherited problem with GH?

if so then nothing i do is going to get GH Up unless i go on GH is it?

thanks

>

> GH takes a hit when other hormones are off you need to be balanced good on

every thing then test GH it can come back up mine did.

> Co-Moderator

> Phil

>

[Guest guest]

check your polycythemis

From: <chrisjtaylor46@...>

Subject: What else to consider?

Date: Saturday, April 2, 2011, 2:32 PM

 

Hi all

I have been on TRT since just before christmas. once the first jab (sust 250)

kicked in i felt good, then it wore off and it's been a roller coaster, and now

i feel pretty bad most of the time. i've noticed my hair's getting thinner.

what else should I consider treatment for? E2? growth hormone? i never respond

to thyroid and i'm not sure about adrenals - was on hc for about 18 months and i

thought it helped but not sure now.

i feel so tired, depressed, no 'wood' etc usually.

i am considering seeing Dr H i belgium, but that is $$$, but then i guess he'd

sort things out?

thanks

chris

[Guest guest]

I was on GH I started with a very low dose the sides were so bad I had to stop.

And it made my Thyroid on meds go hyper. I would not play with this by your

self test your IGF-1 levels and IGFBP-1

Levels see where your at.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: <chrisjtaylor46@...>

> Subject: Re: What else to consider?

>

> Date: Saturday, April 2, 2011, 4:30 PM

> can too high or too low cortisol

> affect GH too?

>

> i think another dr i mailed once said that GH is the last

> thing that she prescribes - she looked at everything else

> first and she said something sijmilr to you ie that it'd

> come back up by itself

>

> problem is trying to work out all this stuff by yourself

>

> plus i'm also thinking what if i have  a genetic or

> inherited problem with GH?  if so then nothing i do is

> going to get GH Up unless i go on GH is it?

>

> thanks

>

>

> >

> > GH takes a hit when other hormones are off you need to

> be balanced good on every thing then test GH it can come

> back up mine did.

> > Co-Moderator

> > Phil

> >

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

hi Phil

thank you for your rreply.

I got IGF results last year, do you know how to interpret them?

IGF 25.9 13.0-37.0 nmol/L (taken 10am ish i think, fasting)

IGF 41.8 13.0-37.0 nmol/L (about 2.30pm, about 4 hours after eating).

does this mean GH is ok?

i am very confused about this. 14 days since my last jab, i wonder if that's

why i feel so bad

> > >

> > > GH takes a hit when other hormones are off you need to

> > be balanced good on every thing then test GH it can come

> > back up mine did.

> > > Co-Moderator

> > > Phil

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Yes your IGF looks OK to me but it's an old test still it's mid range this is

good.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: <chrisjtaylor46@...>

> Subject: Re: What else to consider?

>

> Date: Sunday, April 3, 2011, 1:52 PM

> hi Phil

>

> thank you for your rreply.

>

> I got IGF results last year, do you know how to interpret

> them?

> IGF    25.9   

> 13.0-37.0  nmol/L  (taken 10am ish i think,

> fasting)

> IGF    41.8   

> 13.0-37.0    nmol/L  (about 2.30pm,

> about 4 hours after eating).

>

> does this mean GH is ok?

>

> i am very confused about this.    14 days since

> my last jab, i wonder if that's why i feel so bad

>

>

>

>

>

> > > >

> > > > GH takes a hit when other hormones are off

> you need to

> > > be balanced good on every thing then test GH it

> can come

> > > back up mine did.

> > > > Co-Moderator

> > > > Phil

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

so you wouldn't think GH is a major problem based on these results?

> > > > >

> > > > > GH takes a hit when other hormones are off

> > you need to

> > > > be balanced good on every thing then test GH it

> > can come

> > > > back up mine did.

> > > > > Co-Moderator

> > > > > Phil

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

No and what you need to do when your leveled and feeling better is test this

again.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: <chrisjtaylor46@...>

> Subject: Re: What else to consider?

>

> Date: Sunday, April 3, 2011, 3:14 PM

> so you wouldn't think GH is a major

> problem based on these results?

>

>

> > > > > >

> > > > > > GH takes a hit when other hormones

> are off

> > > you need to

> > > > > be balanced good on every thing then

> test GH it

> > > can come

> > > > > back up mine did.

> > > > > > Co-Moderator

> > > > > > Phil

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > >

> > > > >