Guest guest Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 Estradiol, a form of estrogen, I believe primarily created from aromatization of testosterone but I have also read men produce a small amount of this via their testes as well. Also fat cells can raise the conversion of testosterone to E2, thus this is why most people tell you to avoid putting testosterone creams and gels on areas with a lot of fat, and also why a lot of guys prefer injections as you can inject into the muscle and avoid the chance of conversion. From what I have gathered, E2 has a lot to do with how a man feels, his overall energy and moods, and can be a major reason they have low T symptoms. It works both ways, too high or too low can cause issues, the normal range for a man where they will feel the best is usually 20-30 pq/ml. I also believe that very high E2 is what actually causes " roid rage " , if you do steriods and get your testosterone level to way above the normal ranges your body will also convert a lot of that to estrogen, thus the " rage " part. Most guys on TRT do not go to those super high ranges so they never experience that problem but may experience other symptoms (ED, depression, low energy, etc...), however they still need to monitor E2 as over time the levels can change even if you think your leveled off on TRT. Also keep in mind some men basically need E2 controlled no matter what level of TRT they are using. Popular ways to reduce it are DIM and arimidex, DIM is OTC and arimidex is a perscription and its somewhat off label use to main stream doctors. But keep in mind, going too low you will also get some of the same symptoms and issues, its really a balancing act. BR//Matt On 2/5/2011 1:27 PM, A lan wrote: > > I've been seeing a lot of posts on E2. What is it anyway? > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 It is Estradiol some thing that needs to be kept lower on TRT. Co-Moderator Phil > From: A lan <mills47460@...> > Subject: E2? > > Date: Saturday, February 5, 2011, 2:27 PM > I've been seeing a lot of posts on > E2. What is it anyway? > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 It is the bane of my existance... On Feb 5, 2011 12:28 PM, " A lan " <mills47460@...> wrote: I've been seeing a lot of posts on E2. What is it anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 So what is DIM ? Does it have a brand name? How potent is it? CC: mills47460@... From: mattjon332@... Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 13:51:06 -0600 Subject: Re: E2? Estradiol, a form of estrogen, I believe primarily created from aromatization of testosterone but I have also read men produce a small amount of this via their testes as well. Also fat cells can raise the conversion of testosterone to E2, thus this is why most people tell you to avoid putting testosterone creams and gels on areas with a lot of fat, and also why a lot of guys prefer injections as you can inject into the muscle and avoid the chance of conversion. From what I have gathered, E2 has a lot to do with how a man feels, his overall energy and moods, and can be a major reason they have low T symptoms. It works both ways, too high or too low can cause issues, the normal range for a man where they will feel the best is usually 20-30 pq/ml. I also believe that very high E2 is what actually causes " roid rage " , if you do steriods and get your testosterone level to way above the normal ranges your body will also convert a lot of that to estrogen, thus the " rage " part. Most guys on TRT do not go to those super high ranges so they never experience that problem but may experience other symptoms (ED, depression, low energy, etc...), however they still need to monitor E2 as over time the levels can change even if you think your leveled off on TRT. Also keep in mind some men basically need E2 controlled no matter what level of TRT they are using. Popular ways to reduce it are DIM and arimidex, DIM is OTC and arimidex is a perscription and its somewhat off label use to main stream doctors. But keep in mind, going too low you will also get some of the same symptoms and issues, its really a balancing act. BR//Matt On 2/5/2011 1:27 PM, A lan wrote: > > I've been seeing a lot of posts on E2. What is it anyway? > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 Courtesy of Phil: /ALL ABOUT DIM. Sure here is a few links that are all about it. But there are a lot of Co.'s out there selling DIM that don't work well. Indolplex/DIM is the best it dose not get killed in your stomach when you take it. Diindolylmethane (DIM) is a stable indole found in cruciferous vegetables which promotes a beneficial estrogen metabolism in both women and men. http://www.dimfaq.com/index.htm in this link it's full of links about it. http://qualitycounts.com/fpdim.html http://www.jbc.org/content/278/23/21136.full If you have DIM in caps it's not Indolplex so to take this and to get it to work open the cap pore the DIM into a spoon add some Olive oil and take it this helps to keep it from getting killed in your stomach. The following is some links to where you can buy Indolplex/DIM. http://www.vitaglo.com/e5336.html http://www.vitacost.com/EnzymaticTherapyEstroBalancewithDIM/searchby-PN/searchte\ xt-dim http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0 http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0 http://www.estrobalance.net/ http://www.easyhealthzone.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=PP0108 & click=71 <http://www.easyhealthzone.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=PP0108 & click=71> http://www.nbizz.com/longevityclinic/listings/213.html http://www.drugnatural.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD & Store_Code=DMOS & Product_\ Code=156497 <http://www.drugnatural.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD & Store_Code=DMOS & Product\ _Code=156497> http://www.smartbomb.com/itindo9.html?utm_source=mercent & utm_medium=shopcompare & \ utm_content=itindo9 & utm_campaign=mbsdb & mr:trackingCode=C6AEFBD1-E681-DE11-B7F3-0\ 019B9C043EB & mr:referralID=NA <http://www.smartbomb.com/itindo9.html?utm_source=mercent & utm_medium=shopcompare\ & utm_content=itindo9 & utm_campaign=mbsdb & mr:trackingCode=C6AEFBD1-E681-DE11-B7F3-\ 0019B9C043EB & mr:referralID=NA> http://www.ritecare.com/cgi-bin/cart.pl?db=product_db.dat & category=natural+medic\ ine & method=any_words & search=iti-75336 <http://www.ritecare.com/cgi-bin/cart.pl?db=product_db.dat & category=natural+medi\ cine & method=any_words & search=iti-75336> http://www.naturamart.com/phytopharmica-pms-formula-with-indoplex-120-caps.html How to take Indolplex/DIM take one tablet 120 mgs at dinner time it can take 2 weeks to 2 months to get your Estradiol levels down it's all about how high you are in your levels. What you need to do is get this down to about 20 pg/ml. When you get this low your night time and morning wood will come back so strong it will wake you up this means most of the time your at your best levels or what I call the sweet spot. Keep taking the DIM but if your wood stops your going down to low so just stop taking it. The day your wood comes back go back on the DIM but cut the tablet in half. If your Testosterone was tested and low but your not on TRT get it tested again you might find your levels came up some 200 to 300 points. http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174/ BR//Matt On 2/5/2011 4:19 PM, Bill C wrote: > > So what is DIM ? Does it have a brand name? How potent is it? > > > > > > CC: mills47460@... > From: mattjon332@... > Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 13:51:06 -0600 > Subject: Re: E2? > > > > > > > Estradiol, a form of estrogen, I believe primarily created from > aromatization of testosterone but I have also read men produce a small > amount of this via their testes as well. Also fat cells can raise the > conversion of testosterone to E2, thus this is why most people tell you > to avoid putting testosterone creams and gels on areas with a lot of > fat, and also why a lot of guys prefer injections as you can inject into > the muscle and avoid the chance of conversion. > > From what I have gathered, E2 has a lot to do with how a man feels, his > overall energy and moods, and can be a major reason they have low T > symptoms. It works both ways, too high or too low can cause issues, the > normal range for a man where they will feel the best is usually 20-30 > pq/ml. I also believe that very high E2 is what actually causes " roid > rage " , if you do steriods and get your testosterone level to way above > the normal ranges your body will also convert a lot of that to estrogen, > thus the " rage " part. Most guys on TRT do not go to those super high > ranges so they never experience that problem but may experience other > symptoms (ED, depression, low energy, etc...), however they still need > to monitor E2 as over time the levels can change even if you think your > leveled off on TRT. Also keep in mind some men basically need E2 > controlled no matter what level of TRT they are using. > > Popular ways to reduce it are DIM and arimidex, DIM is OTC and arimidex > is a perscription and its somewhat off label use to main stream > doctors. But keep in mind, going too low you will also get some of the > same symptoms and issues, its really a balancing act. > > BR//Matt > > On 2/5/2011 1:27 PM, A lan wrote: >> I've been seeing a lot of posts on E2. What is it anyway? >> >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 I produce a lot of E2 naturally, & some by aromatization of testosterone now. When I had my first test my " T " was 120 & the " E2 " was either 84 or 94. I take .5 Arimidex 3 times a week, & two DIM & one Zinc 50 every night. My " T " is now up in the 600s & the " E2 " is in the 20s. > > > > I've been seeing a lot of posts on E2. What is it anyway? > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 ALL ABOUT DIM. Sure here is a few links that are all about it. But there are a lot of Co.'s out there selling DIM that don't work well. Indolplex/DIM is the best it dose not get killed in your stomach when you take it. Diindolylmethane (DIM) is a stable indole found in cruciferous vegetables which promotes a beneficial estrogen metabolism in both women and men. http://www.dimfaq.com/index.htm in this link it's full of links about it. http://qualitycounts.com/fpdim.html http://www.jbc.org/content/278/23/21136.full If you have DIM in caps it's not Indolplex so to take this and to get it to work open the cap pore the DIM into a spoon add some Olive oil and take it this helps to keep it from getting killed in your stomach. The following is some links to where you can buy Indolplex/DIM. http://www.vitaglo.com/e5336.html http://www.vitacost.com/EnzymaticTherapyEstroBalancewithDIM/searchby-PN/searchte\ xt-dim http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0 http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0 http://www.estrobalance.net/ http://www.easyhealthzone.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=PP0108 & click=71 http://www.nbizz.com/longevityclinic/listings/213.html http://www.drugnatural.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD & Store_Code=DMOS & Product_\ Code=156497 http://www.smartbomb.com/itindo9.html?utm_source=mercent & utm_medium=shopcompare & \ utm_content=itindo9 & utm_campaign=mbsdb & mr:trackingCode=C6AEFBD1-E681-DE11-B7F3-0\ 019B9C043EB & mr:referralID=NA http://www.ritecare.com/cgi-bin/cart.pl?db=product_db.dat & category=natural+medic\ ine & method=any_words & search=iti-75336 http://www.naturamart.com/phytopharmica-pms-formula-with-indoplex-120-caps.html How to take Indolplex/DIM take one tablet 120 mgs at dinner time it can take 2 weeks to 2 months to get your Estradiol levels down it’s all about how high you are in your levels. What you need to do is get this down to about 20 pg/ml. When you get this low your night time and morning wood will come back so strong it will wake you up this means most of the time your at your best levels or what I call the sweet spot. Keep taking the DIM but if your wood stops your going down to low so just stop taking it. The day your wood comes back go back on the DIM but cut the tablet in half. If your Testosterone was tested and low but your not on TRT get it tested again you might find your levels came up some 200 to 300 points. http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174 Co-Moderator Phil > > > > I've been seeing a lot of posts on E2. What is it > anyway? > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 Any guidelines on upper limit of DIM usage, before you need to move to arimidex? I have my next Dr appointment Friday, hopefully I will finally find the main issue with my low T, I really am suspecting E2 based on everything I have read and my (limited) labs from before. I could be wrong, but the puzzle sortuf comes together with high E2 I think. My personal desire is to stay off pharmaceuticals, if at all possible, and stick to more natural remedies. I know herbs and natural remedies are technically also drugs themselves, but I also know whats found in nature is usually better for you then what is found in a lab. So just wondering if E2 is my issue, at what point is DIM not a viable method? Most products say 1 to 2 tablets per day, is there any benefit to trying 3 or 4 (if necessary) or is it a waste. BR//Matt On 2/6/2011 8:21 AM, philip georgian wrote: > > ALL ABOUT DIM. > Sure here is a few links that are all about it. But there are a lot of > Co.'s out there selling DIM that don't work well. Indolplex/DIM is the > best it dose not get killed in your stomach when you take it. > Diindolylmethane (DIM) is a stable indole found in cruciferous > vegetables which promotes a beneficial estrogen metabolism in both > women and men. > http://www.dimfaq.com/index.htm > in this link it's full of links about it. > http://qualitycounts.com/fpdim.html > http://www.jbc.org/content/278/23/21136.full > If you have DIM in caps it's not Indolplex so to take this and to get > it to work open the cap pore the DIM into a spoon add some Olive oil > and take it this helps to keep it from getting killed in your stomach. > The following is some links to where you can buy Indolplex/DIM. > http://www.vitaglo.com/e5336.html > http://www.vitacost.com/EnzymaticTherapyEstroBalancewithDIM/searchby-PN/searchte\ xt-dim > http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0 > http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0 > http://www.estrobalance.net/ > http://www.easyhealthzone.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=PP0108 & click=71 > <http://www.easyhealthzone.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=PP0108 & click=71> > http://www.nbizz.com/longevityclinic/listings/213.html > http://www.drugnatural.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD & Store_Code=DMOS & Product_\ Code=156497 > <http://www.drugnatural.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD & Store_Code=DMOS & Product\ _Code=156497> > http://www.smartbomb.com/itindo9.html?utm_source=mercent & utm_medium=shopcompare & \ utm_content=itindo9 & utm_campaign=mbsdb & mr:trackingCode=C6AEFBD1-E681-DE11-B7F3-0\ 019B9C043EB & mr:referralID=NA > <http://www.smartbomb.com/itindo9.html?utm_source=mercent & utm_medium=shopcompare\ & utm_content=itindo9 & utm_campaign=mbsdb & mr:trackingCode=C6AEFBD1-E681-DE11-B7F3-\ 0019B9C043EB & mr:referralID=NA> > http://www.ritecare.com/cgi-bin/cart.pl?db=product_db.dat & category=natural+medic\ ine & method=any_words & search=iti-75336 > <http://www.ritecare.com/cgi-bin/cart.pl?db=product_db.dat & category=natural+medi\ cine & method=any_words & search=iti-75336> > http://www.naturamart.com/phytopharmica-pms-formula-with-indoplex-120-caps.html > How to take Indolplex/DIM take one tablet 120 mgs at dinner time it > can take 2 weeks to 2 months to get your Estradiol levels down it’s > all about how high you are in your levels. What you need to do is get > this down to about 20 pg/ml. When you get this low your night time and > morning wood will come back so strong it will wake you up this means > most of the time your at your best levels or what I call the sweet > spot. Keep taking the DIM but if your wood stops your going down to > low so just stop taking it. The day your wood comes back go back on > the DIM but cut the tablet in half. If your Testosterone was tested > and low but your not on TRT get it tested again you might find your > levels came up some 200 to 300 points. > http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174 > > Co-Moderator > Phil > > > > > > > > I've been seeing a lot of posts on E2. What is it > > anyway? > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 One needs to examine nutritonal evaluation, lifestyles adjustements, alcohol consumption, body fat, Gi imbalance, liver imbalances,stress management, thyroid and adrenal function before giving up on DIM. > > > > > > > > I've been seeing a lot of posts on E2. What is it > > > anyway? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 You sound like me I needed a lot of Arimidex and at one time I was doing both Arimidex and DIM but they did not work very well together. The DIM was making me break out in a rash on the back of my lower legs. I started taking Pregnenolone cream Life-Flo 15 mgs per pump. My levels tested very low and after reading Chilln's Sticky at Dr. 's forum " Hormones 101 " and trying this cream my levels ended up over the top of the range. I have been on Cortef HC meds for yrs doing 30 mgs / day. Doing the Preg. cream my morning fasting cortisol labs went up from 12 to 19. Chilln says doing this Preg. cream as your levels go up it will convert into Cortiols keeping one levels up at night. Doing this stops the conversion of T into E2. Now my labs came back my E2 is to low. I stopped taking Arimidex it was rebounding my E2 levels to fast and over time I need to take more and more of it. So I switched to Aromasin 12.5 mgs every 3 to 4 days I don't know if my levels came back up but I found out being to low you end up with Hot Flash's feeling like waves of Panic coming over me. To me this felt like high E2 because I was still having good night time and morning wood. Well the Preg. works so good I get night time and morning wood now with very low E2 levels 8. So I can't use this to gage how my E2 is doing. I feel dam good now that I stopped the arimidex. If over time you find you need more and more of it the E2 is rebounding very fast on you. Read chilln's " Hormones 101 " at Dr. 's forum and all the posts by men talking about this every one is taking about it. http://www.musclechatroom.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?2-All-Things-Male If your going to try this do the labs chilln says to get first. Co-Moderator Phil > From: gin2c <no_reply > > Subject: Re: E2? > > Date: Sunday, February 6, 2011, 8:50 AM > I produce a lot of E2 naturally, > & some by aromatization of testosterone now. > > When I had my first test my " T " was 120 & the " E2 " was > either 84 or 94. > I take .5 Arimidex 3 times a week, & two DIM & one > Zinc 50 every night. > My " T " is now up in the 600s & the " E2 " is in the 20s. > > > > > > > > > > > I've been seeing a lot of posts on E2. What is it > anyway? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 Matt it's about how high your E2 levels were Indolplex/ DIM works slower then Arimidex. You need to give it time. And yes don't go on TRT until you know why your low if you find out your low and need it don't do supplements or herbs to try to bring your levels up it's a waste of money and can make you worse. I would not do more then 1 pill of Indolplex/DIM every 12 hrs. Co-Moderator Phil > > > > > > > > I've been seeing a lot of posts on E2. What > is it > > > anyway? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 Thanks Hard, I may ping you about some questions later about these, if I find E2 is my issue....anxiously awaiting Friday. BR//Matt On 2/6/2011 9:16 AM, hardasnails1973 wrote: > > One needs to examine nutritonal evaluation, lifestyles adjustements, > alcohol consumption, body fat, Gi imbalance, liver imbalances,stress > management, thyroid and adrenal function before giving up on DIM. > > > > > > > > > > > > I've been seeing a lot of posts on E2. What is it > > > > anyway? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 No problem > > > > > > > > > > > > I've been seeing a lot of posts on E2. What is it > > > > > anyway? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 Thanks Phil, is there a complete list of E2 balancing remedies that you know of? I have heard I3C is also good, is DIM and I3C the only ones? I now DIM is supposed to be better and even safer maybe, but just doing my research ahead of time so that if my issue is E2, I can hit the ground running and also can discuss with the Doc same day. BR//Matt On 2/6/2011 9:39 AM, philip georgian wrote: > > Matt it's about how high your E2 levels were Indolplex/ DIM works > slower then Arimidex. You need to give it time. And yes don't go on > TRT until you know why your low if you find out your low and need it > don't do supplements or herbs to try to bring your levels up it's a > waste of money and can make you worse. I would not do more then 1 pill > of Indolplex/DIM every 12 hrs. > Co-Moderator > Phil > > > > > > > > > > > > I've been seeing a lot of posts on E2. What > > is it > > > > anyway? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 Matt, I tired all kinds of supplements to lower E2 levels problem is some DIM sold out there is junk and I3C gets killed in your stomach for most people. E2 is every where in your food the milk you drink even in the plastic bottles we drink water from. There is no place to hide all you can do it try to not cook with Plastic don't drink a lot of bottled water. I need to drink a lot of water / day I so I filter it and use a SS Kanteen to keep it in. http://www.kleankanteen.com/ I feel chilln at Dr. 's has a good way to keep E2 down go there and read his Sticky " Hormones 101 " do the labs he says you need if your going try this and go over it with your Dr. http://www.musclechatroom.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?2-All-Things-Male & s= & dayspr\ une= Co-Moderator Phil > > > > > > > > > > > > I've been seeing a lot of posts on > E2. What > > > is it > > > > > anyway? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have > been > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have > been > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 Hi Phil You and I have had this discussion before re the Natures Way Dim Plus that I am taking. I note your following statement that has just been posted and feel I need to respond with what I have found since our original exchange. Quote If you have DIM in caps it's not Indolplex so to take this and to get it to work open the cap pore the DIM into a spoon add some Olive oil and take it this helps to keep it from getting killed in your stomach. end Quote This cannot be a truism as Indolplex which is a name licenced to Bio Response LLC. is available in it's patented microencapsulated form and presented within a Vcap capsule. This patent is owned by Dr Zelig. It is available in many brands some of which have different strengths and some with some other added ingredients as shown here http://www.bioresponse.com/Where-to-find-BioResponse-DIM.asp <http://www.bioresponse.com/Where-to-find-BioResponse-DIM.asp> It is also the same patented ingredient found in the Pure Rip TABLET sold by Enzymatic Therapy who add in 340mg Calcium and press it into a TABLET. The supplier of the patented ingredient is acknowledged on their label shown here http://www.enzymatictherapy.com/Products/Weight-Management-and-Fitness/T\ hyroid-and-Weight-Management/05337-Pure-Rip-with-DIM.aspx <http://www.enzymatictherapy.com/Products/Weight-Management-and-Fitness/\ Thyroid-and-Weight-Management/05337-Pure-Rip-with-DIM.aspx> I attach a copy of a post found on the Mesomorphosis Forum by earthdog of an email response that he received direct from Bio Response LLC. Quote T0 reinforce everything that Z wrote, I'm posting an email I got from BioResponse in response to my question about their DIM formulation vs. Phytopharmica's. Here it is: BioResponse LLC is the " raw material manufacturer " with Dr. Zeligs, the patent holder on the delivery system for absorbable formulation. We license our trademarks including the names Indolplex , BioDIM, DIM, DIM-Plus, DIM Pro to different companies. They sell the identical product. You can tell on bottles if it is our patented formulation if it says, " licensed by BioResponse LLC. " The only difference might be in dosage. Tyler/Enzymatic Therapy for instance sells Indolplex with capsules that each contains 15 mgs of the active ingredient (contained in 60mg formulated product). The patented formulation contains a minimum of 25% of the active in the formulation. We sell directly to individuals, capsules that have 150mg per capsule (37.5mg active diindolylmethane) or more than twice the amount per cap compared to Indolplex. Dim-Plus contains 50mg per capsule, a third less per capsule than ours. It is confusing to the consumer when they say it has a 100 mgs per serving; remember that a serving= 2 capsules and it's not such a great deal. We sell under our name BioResponse DIM. Individuals that need just enough for hormone balancing are fine with the lower amounts; those that need to take more find ours to be more economical. Read more from the MESO-Rx Steroid Forum at: http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/indolplex-dim-134236449\ -2.html#ixzz1DDtVj37k <http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/indolplex-dim-13423644\ 9-2.html#ixzz1DDtVj37k> end Quote Further all the published Clinical Trials have all used the microencapsulated patented Indolplex/DIM supplied by Bio Response LLC. and is shown here http://www.dimfaq.com/index.htm <http://www.dimfaq.com/index.htm> I wanted to put this here so that those who follow along after me will have what I believe to be the correct information re DIM. if I am indeed wrong or have got something upside down then please advise me so that I too will be better informed. Just for the record Phil I have just had my blood tests after having been on Natures Way DIM Plus and LEF's Super MiraForte for 6 weeks. I will advise of the results later this week. Here's hoping my high E2 and high SHBG may have come down. Free T going up would be a bonus as well. As far as I am concerned whether DIM actually works in this individual or not is at this moment unanswered. In 2009 I had tried the patented Bio Response LLC supplied Indolplex then Estro-Sense both by the Australian company MD Nutritionals at 2 capsules per day, unfortunately without the desired result. http://www.mdnutritionals.com.au/b3ec97cd-7b72-463a-8c6f-cd812a69a9cb.as\ px <http://www.mdnutritionals.com.au/b3ec97cd-7b72-463a-8c6f-cd812a69a9cb.a\ spx> The reason I decided to try the Natures Way DIM Plus was because my ND believes strongly in the efficacy of Indolplex and insisted that I try Indolplex again but at double the dose ie 4 capsules per day. I did not want to do this because that would have also delivered 400 ug of Selenium and 580 ug of Iodine in the 4 capsules. I have been weaning off Tertroxin after trying to correct a high RT3 problem so did not want to confuse or even exacerbate the problem with the Iodine especially. So I chose the Natures Way and for a while was taking a double dose as advised by the ND and also on the label of the Natures Way. We will see!!! Thank you Phil for all the work and good advice that you and the other stalwarts here provide to people like me who are a little lost and need some help and guidance. It is very much appreciated. Kind regards Wayne > > > > > > I've been seeing a lot of posts on E2. What is it > > anyway? > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2011 Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 Wayne, I just deleted a long post about your reply and checked myself. I have been over this with other men so much I am sick of it. All I am doing is telling men there are some kinds of supplements out there that work other then meds they don't want to try. Or there Dr. will not give them. I don't need a lesson about DIM I have been at this a long time. If your labs show your E2 came down great. I tell men to get Indolplex/DIM and show them a link to what I feel is the best. So I don't get a reply from them saying the DIM they got did not work. After all there is a lot of Junk out there. Please don't reply to this I am tired of taking about over the yrs. what is the best kind of DIM. Co-Moderator Phil > From: gcaussieman <gcaussieman@...> > Subject: Re: E2? > > Date: Sunday, February 6, 2011, 9:17 PM > > Hi Phil > You and I have had this discussion before re the Natures > Way Dim Plus > that I am taking. > I note your following statement that has just been posted > and feel I > need to respond with what I have found since our original > exchange. > > Quote > If you have DIM in caps it's not Indolplex so to take this > and to get it > to work open the cap pore the DIM into a spoon add some > Olive oil and > take it this helps to keep it from getting killed in your > stomach. > end Quote > > > This cannot be a truism as Indolplex which is a name > licenced to Bio > Response LLC. is available in it's patented > microencapsulated form and > presented within a Vcap capsule. This patent is owned by Dr > Zelig. > It is available in many brands some of which have different > strengths > and some with some other added ingredients as shown here > http://www.bioresponse.com/Where-to-find-BioResponse-DIM.asp > <http://www.bioresponse.com/Where-to-find-BioResponse-DIM.asp> > > It is also the same patented ingredient found in the Pure > Rip TABLET > sold by Enzymatic Therapy who add in 340mg Calcium and > press it into a > TABLET. The supplier of the patented ingredient is > acknowledged on > their label shown here > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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