Guest guest Posted August 6, 2010 Report Share Posted August 6, 2010 Hi jtd1701d and Welcome, First thing you need to understand is how your doing damage to your body and brain having levels this low. And I don't feel you are Primary by them labs you need more testing like a clomid or HCG stim. test read about them in this link. If your testis make a good level of T on one of them tests your Secondary meaning your Pituitary is not working telling your testis to make T. Your levels are so low a man 100 yrs of age has better levels then you have. Where do you get this 20% at your below the normal range if you were at the bottom of it you would be in the 1% off all the men in the sample tested. Your sick and your worries I can see but lets get real your can't live your life on them levels. I am Secondary do to a head injury I did not know this for 23 yrs so all they treated was my low testosterone today I treat my low Cortisol, Thyroid, aldosterone, renin, Ferritin and Growth Hormones. Now I feel good it's called Hypopituitary read this link to a closed forum to help you understand what you might have. http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewforum.php?f=12 The stim. tests are in this link. http://www.aace.com/pub/pdf/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf I would not go on the Androgel until you see for sure your not Secondary. I say this because as low as you are if your Primary your LH and FSH would be at the top of the range your Pituitary would be screaming for more T by sending a huge amount of LH and FSH to your Testis telling them to make more. Now for will you come bad to your very low levels if you stop TRT. I was taken off TRT every time a Dr. sent me to see an Endo and I would crash by this I mean I would fall back down to my base level of 120 or a little less. Think about this if your labs were not done first thing in the morning they might be a little higher. Mine were the first thing in the morning and it's not fun to crash back down to them low levels. When you Stop TRT the best you will see is your old levels or lower never zero. You need to read my story I had to have heart bypass surgery 22 months ago and it went all bad I was on a coma 17 weeks died 5 x's I am lucky to be here today. http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=5 & t=9239 After you read my story you will see why I am telling you this all them low hormones I had due to being told I am Primary and I was not did in my heart dam near killed me. I don't like Endo's family Dr.'s feel they are the ones to see but they know less then family Dr.'s do. Unless your Endo is up on this see a better Dr. guys fly in to see better Dr.'s I don't know where you live but I am telling don't go on them gels. Find a better Dr. test everything don't end up like I did. Your Estradiol E2 is very high needs to be at about 20 pg/ml and this might me the biggest thing that is making you feel bad. We use Arimidex to get this down it's a script from a Dr. but you can get it down your not all that high with Indolplex/DIM. Doing this will give you back your sex life I still had mine at a low level of 120. E2 is the bad guy here I will put a copy of a file I made about DIM at the bottom of this post. If you can get your Family Dr. to treat you working with Dr. over the phone do it ask your Family Dr. to do this for you. He will learn about testing and treating this on your dime and you will get the best treatment there is. Or fly or drive out to MI. and see him he only needs to see you once to treat you by phone later. www.allthingsmale.com ================================ ALL ABOUT DIM. Sure here is a few links that are all about it. But there are a lot of Co.'s out there selling DIM that don't work well. Indolplex/DIM is the best it dose not get killed in your stomach when you take it. Diindolylmethane (DIM) is a stable indole found in cruciferous vegetables which promotes a beneficial estrogen metabolism in both women and men. http://www.dimfaq.com/index.htm in this link it's full of links about it. http://qualitycounts.com/fpdim.html http://www.jbc.org/content/278/23/21136.full If you have DIM in caps it's not Indolplex so to take this and to get it to work open the cap pore the DIM into a spoon add some Olive oil and take it this helps to keep it from getting killed in your stomach. The following is some links to where you can buy Indolplex/DIM. http://www.vitaglo.com/e5336.html http://www.vitacost.com/EnzymaticTherapyEstroBalancewithDIM/searchby-PN/searchte\ xt-dim http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0 http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0 http://www.estrobalance.net/ http://www.easyhealthzone.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=PP0108 & click=71 http://www.nbizz.com/longevityclinic/listings/213.html http://www.drugnatural.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD & Store_Code=DMOS & Product_\ Code=156497 http://www.smartbomb.com/itindo9.html?utm_source=mercent & utm_medium=shopcompare & \ utm_content=itindo9 & utm_campaign=mbsdb & mr:trackingCode=C6AEFBD1-E681-DE11-B7F3-0\ 019B9C043EB & mr:referralID=NA http://www.ritecare.com/cgi-bin/cart.pl?db=product_db.dat & category=natural+medic\ ine & method=any_words & search=iti-75336 http://www.naturamart.com/phytopharmica-pms-formula-with-indoplex-120-caps.html How to take Indolplex/DIM take one tablet 120 mgs at dinner time it can take 2 weeks to 2 months to get your Estradiol levels down it’s all about how high you are in your levels. What you need to do is get this down to about 20 pg/ml. When you get this low your night time and morning wood will come back so strong it will wake you up this means most of the time your at your best levels or what I call the sweet spot. Keep taking the DIM but if your wood stops your going down to low so just stop taking it. The day your wood comes back go back on the DIM but cut the tablet in half. If your Testosterone was tested and low but your not on TRT get it tested again you might find your levels came up some 200 to 300 points. http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you go on the gel anyway read this and test again in 2 weeks to be sure it's working. ============================================== Starting on Androgel or Testim. Yes this happens a lot you start on a low starting dose 5 grams when your brain sees the testosterone in your blood even just a little it slows down even stops sending the LH and FSH message to your testis to make the Testosterone you were making. So lets say your labs for Total T were 350 you add this dose of gel your brain sees this and you lose the base level you had before the gel. Now lets say you need more then 5 grams most do so now all your left with is what the gel is doing so lets say it's doing 200 so you lost 150. The reason you feel good is your levels go up that 200 the gel is doing in the first 2 weeks so your levels go up to 550 in theory. The brain sees this and you fall back. Why can this happen it might be how your putting on the gel with Androgel you need to spread it over your upper arms and shoulders and down your back as far as you can reach this is half of your dose then do the other side. Just spread it over the area but don't rub it in. The other thing is it's not getting through your skin good so you need more. If you have a thyroid problem your skin will become thicker and gels and creams don't get through the skin and you need to switch to shots. I tell men when they go on Gels to retest in 2 weeks because you can end up feeling worse. Most men just need more gel. Dr.'s that tell men to go on 5 grams of gel and come back in 8 to 12 weeks for labs don't know much about the use of gels. Dr.'s that treat a lot of men for low T on gels see this happen and test them again in 2 weeks. When you go to do labs get up and shower that morning go do your labs and then put in the gel after your blood test so you don’t spike up your labs. If you can’t do labs in the morning shower put on the gel but don’t get any gel on the spot they take the blood from. Do your labs about 6 hrs later. Call your Dr. and tell him this and that your not feeling good you were but fell back. Co-Moderator Phil > From: jtd1701d <jtd1701d@...> > Subject: Androgel TRT > > Date: Friday, August 6, 2010, 2:07 PM > Hey Guys, > > > I spent a few hours, searching the posts, and really cannot > find anything that matches my concern. > > I'm 30 years old, and have been (for awhile) suffering from > a low sex drive. I went to an endocrinologist and they > ran a complete panel of tests (results below). After > having my Pituitary MRI and came back fine, I was diagnosed > with Primary Hypogonadism. > > RESULTS / RANGES REFERENCE ARE IN ( ) > TESTOSTERONE TOTAL 209 (250-1100 ng/dL) > TESTOSTERONE BIOAVAILABLE 104 (110-575 ng/dL) > TESTOSTERONE FREE 15.7 (35-155 pg/mL) > TESTOSTERONE % FREE .75 (1.50-2.20%) > > FSH/LH > LH 4.4 (1.5-9.3 mIU/mL) > FSH 2.6 (1.6-8.0 mIU/mL) > > OTHER STUFF > PROLACTIN 6.5 (2.0 - 18 ng/mL) > ESTRADIOL 44 (<=54 pg/mL) > > The doctor wants to start me on Androgel, but after reading > some topics about it, I have some concerns. My major > concern is I've read on various sites, that TRT will halt > your body from producing any testosterone naturally. I > can understand this can occur while I am on the treatment, > but what if I have to stop? Will my body " kick back > in " , and start producing again? I understand, and > accept my body will never produce normal levels, but minimal > function is better then a complete shut down. In other > words, I dont want to be on the stuff, then am " trapped " in > taking for the rest of my life, because my testis have been > shut down permanently (even when off the androgel). > > I have read sites, that state this > " hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis "  shut down while > on TRT, and those signals (LH/FSH) never start producing > again, hence the complete tesicular " shut down " . > > Another way I can explain the concern (beating a dead horse > probably sorry). Lets say (funky numbers); I am > currently naturally producing T at 20% of normal. > While on TRT, I will produce 0%. If for whatever > reason I have to stop TRT. I need to know, will I go > back at functioning at 20%, or will it be at 0% forever from > that point on permanently. > > I've asked my Dr, and she doesnt seem to get my concern at > all. She asks why would I want to stop the treatment, > and I can think of a few. What if I cannot tolerate > the side effects? What If i lose my health insurance, and > cannot afford it out of pocket? > > I am really hoping someone can help me out. I > certainly see the benefits this treatment can do to enhance > my sex life life. But if my concerns can be confirmed > as true and accurate, then I dont think its a gamble I > am willing to make. > > Thanks > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2010 Report Share Posted August 6, 2010 Thanks for the fast reply Phil. I'll admit I am really alarmed with your response. I had no idea my levels were so grave! I really want to point out, despite this one test result, I FEEL FINE. I have no problems with energy, erection, building muscle, etc. My only symptom was a low libido, and it wasnt even horribly bad.. Just thought it could be better. Also I didn't mention this in my original post because I felt it was already too long, but i want to mention, I did have one test a month prior, and it was taken in the morning, those results were. TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL: 409 (250-1100) TESTOSTERONE, FREE: 123.9 (35-155) As you can see, there is quite a fluctuation given only 30 days from each other, I don't know what can explain this, besides the fact that I know T is higher in the AM. But for the free to fluctuate that much? Maybe since I have two test results, one normal, one off.. I need a third? I will look into all of your links you posted, you have provided a wealth of information, and its very much appreciated. Thanks Phil. > > > From: jtd1701d <jtd1701d@...> > > Subject: Androgel TRT > > > > Date: Friday, August 6, 2010, 2:07 PM > > Hey Guys, > > > > > > I spent a few hours, searching the posts, and really cannot > > find anything that matches my concern. > > > > I'm 30 years old, and have been (for awhile) suffering from > > a low sex drive. I went to an endocrinologist and they > > ran a complete panel of tests (results below). After > > having my Pituitary MRI and came back fine, I was diagnosed > > with Primary Hypogonadism. > > > > RESULTS / RANGES REFERENCE ARE IN ( ) > > TESTOSTERONE TOTAL 209 (250-1100 ng/dL) > > TESTOSTERONE BIOAVAILABLE 104 (110-575 ng/dL) > > TESTOSTERONE FREE 15.7 (35-155 pg/mL) > > TESTOSTERONE % FREE .75 (1.50-2.20%) > > > > FSH/LH > > LH 4.4 (1.5-9.3 mIU/mL) > > FSH 2.6 (1.6-8.0 mIU/mL) > > > > OTHER STUFF > > PROLACTIN 6.5 (2.0 - 18 ng/mL) > > ESTRADIOL 44 (<=54 pg/mL) > > > > The doctor wants to start me on Androgel, but after reading > > some topics about it, I have some concerns. My major > > concern is I've read on various sites, that TRT will halt > > your body from producing any testosterone naturally. I > > can understand this can occur while I am on the treatment, > > but what if I have to stop? Will my body " kick back > > in " , and start producing again? I understand, and > > accept my body will never produce normal levels, but minimal > > function is better then a complete shut down. In other > > words, I dont want to be on the stuff, then am " trapped " in > > taking for the rest of my life, because my testis have been > > shut down permanently (even when off the androgel). > > > > I have read sites, that state this > > " hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis "  shut down while > > on TRT, and those signals (LH/FSH) never start producing > > again, hence the complete tesicular " shut down " . > > > > Another way I can explain the concern (beating a dead horse > > probably sorry). Lets say (funky numbers); I am > > currently naturally producing T at 20% of normal. > > While on TRT, I will produce 0%. If for whatever > > reason I have to stop TRT. I need to know, will I go > > back at functioning at 20%, or will it be at 0% forever from > > that point on permanently. > > > > I've asked my Dr, and she doesnt seem to get my concern at > > all. She asks why would I want to stop the treatment, > > and I can think of a few. What if I cannot tolerate > > the side effects? What If i lose my health insurance, and > > cannot afford it out of pocket? > > > > I am really hoping someone can help me out. I > > certainly see the benefits this treatment can do to enhance > > my sex life life. But if my concerns can be confirmed > > as true and accurate, then I dont think its a gamble I > > am willing to make. > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2010 Report Share Posted August 6, 2010 Now let me tell you you feel off bad on that 2nd. test still your low on the first one. But your E2 levels can be doing this if you get this down to about 20 pg/ml your Testosterone might go back up some 200 to 300 points. This would be normal your brain can't tell the diff. between E2 and T so when it sees high levels of E2 it thinks it is T and slows down sending the LH and FSH messages so you end up with low labs of T, LH and FSH this makes most Dr. think your Secondary when all it is is high E2. Get your E2 down and retest let me know what happens most men do this feel better and I never haar back how this worked. http://www.medibolics.com/ArimidexBoostsTestosterone.htm In this link it talks about this problem but in older men still I see it in younger men. http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174 Co-Moderator Phil > From: jtd1701d <jtd1701d@...> > Subject: Re: Androgel TRT > > Date: Friday, August 6, 2010, 3:39 PM > > > Thanks for the fast reply Phil. > > I'll admit I am really alarmed with your response. I > had no idea my levels were so grave! I really want to > point out, despite this one test result, I FEEL FINE. > I have no problems with energy, erection, building muscle, > etc. My only symptom was a low libido, and it wasnt > even horribly bad.. Just thought it could be better. > > Also I didn't mention this in my original post because I > felt it was already too long, but i want to mention, I > did have one test a month prior, and it was taken in the > morning, those results were. > > TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL: 409 (250-1100) > TESTOSTERONE, FREE: 123.9 (35-155) > > As you can see, there is quite a fluctuation given only 30 > days from each other, I don't know what can explain this, > besides the fact that I know T is higher in the AM. > But for the free to fluctuate that much? > > Maybe since I have two test results, one normal, one off.. > I need a third? I will look into all of your links you > posted, you have provided a wealth of information, and its > very much appreciated. Thanks Phil. > > > > > > > From: jtd1701d <jtd1701d@...> > > > Subject: Androgel TRT > > > > > > Date: Friday, August 6, 2010, 2:07 PM > > > Hey Guys, > > > > > > > > > I spent a few hours, searching the posts, and > really cannot > > > find anything that matches my concern. > > > > > > I'm 30 years old, and have been (for awhile) > suffering from > > > a low sex drive. I went to an endocrinologist > and they > > > ran a complete panel of tests (results > below). After > > > having my Pituitary MRI and came back fine, I was > diagnosed > > > with Primary Hypogonadism. > > > > > > RESULTS / RANGES REFERENCE ARE IN ( ) > > > TESTOSTERONE TOTAL 209 (250-1100 ng/dL) > > > TESTOSTERONE BIOAVAILABLE 104 (110-575 > ng/dL) > > > TESTOSTERONE FREE 15.7 (35-155 pg/mL) > > > TESTOSTERONE % FREE .75 (1.50-2.20%) > > > > > > FSH/LH > > > LH 4.4 (1.5-9.3 mIU/mL) > > > FSH 2.6 (1.6-8.0 mIU/mL) > > > > > > OTHER STUFF > > > PROLACTIN 6.5 (2.0 - 18 ng/mL) > > > ESTRADIOL 44 (<=54 pg/mL) > > > > > > The doctor wants to start me on Androgel, but > after reading > > > some topics about it, I have some concerns. > My major > > > concern is I've read on various sites, that TRT > will halt > > > your body from producing any testosterone > naturally. I > > > can understand this can occur while I am on the > treatment, > > > but what if I have to stop? Will my body > " kick back > > > in " , and start producing again? I understand, > and > > > accept my body will never produce normal levels, > but minimal > > > function is better then a complete shut down. > In other > > > words, I dont want to be on the stuff, then am > " trapped " in > > > taking for the rest of my life, because my testis > have been > > > shut down permanently (even when off the > androgel). > > > > > > I have read sites, that state this > > > " hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis "  shut > down while > > > on TRT, and those signals (LH/FSH) never start > producing > > > again, hence the complete tesicular " shut down " . > > > > > > Another way I can explain the concern (beating a > dead horse > > > probably sorry). Lets say (funky numbers); I > am > > > currently naturally producing T at 20% of > normal. > > > While on TRT, I will produce 0%. If for > whatever > > > reason I have to stop TRT. I need to know, > will I go > > > back at functioning at 20%, or will it be at 0% > forever from > > > that point on permanently. > > > > > > I've asked my Dr, and she doesnt seem to get my > concern at > > > all. She asks why would I want to stop the > treatment, > > > and I can think of a few. What if I cannot > tolerate > > > the side effects? What If i lose my health > insurance, and > > > cannot afford it out of pocket? > > > > > > I am really hoping someone can help me out. > I > > > certainly see the benefits this treatment can do > to enhance > > > my sex life life. But if my concerns can be > confirmed > > > as true and accurate, then I dont think its a > gamble I > > > am willing to make. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2010 Report Share Posted August 6, 2010 Good luck I pray you don't need TRT. Co-Moderator Phil > From: jtd1701d <jtd1701d@...> > Subject: Re: Androgel TRT > > Date: Friday, August 6, 2010, 4:52 PM > E2 is the Estradiol right? I > will discuss all of this with my Dr. I do appreciate > your time Phil, I will keep you updated. Thanks > again. > > > > > > > > > > > From: jtd1701d <jtd1701d@> > > > > > Subject: Androgel TRT > > > > > > > > > > Date: Friday, August 6, 2010, 2:07 PM > > > > > Hey Guys, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I spent a few hours, searching the > posts, and > > > really cannot > > > > > find anything that matches my concern. > > > > > > > > > > I'm 30 years old, and have been (for > awhile) > > > suffering from > > > > > a low sex drive. I went to an > endocrinologist > > > and they > > > > > ran a complete panel of tests (results > > > below). After > > > > > having my Pituitary MRI and came back > fine, I was > > > diagnosed > > > > > with Primary Hypogonadism. > > > > > > > > > > RESULTS / RANGES REFERENCE ARE IN ( ) > > > > > TESTOSTERONE TOTAL 209 (250-1100 > ng/dL) > > > > > TESTOSTERONE BIOAVAILABLE 104 > (110-575 > > > ng/dL) > > > > > TESTOSTERONE FREE 15.7 (35-155 pg/mL) > > > > > TESTOSTERONE % FREE .75 (1.50-2.20%) > > > > > > > > > > FSH/LH > > > > > LH 4.4 (1.5-9.3 mIU/mL) > > > > > FSH 2.6 (1.6-8.0 mIU/mL) > > > > > > > > > > OTHER STUFF > > > > > PROLACTIN 6.5 (2.0 - 18 ng/mL) > > > > > ESTRADIOL 44 (<=54 pg/mL) > > > > > > > > > > The doctor wants to start me on > Androgel, but > > > after reading > > > > > some topics about it, I have some > concerns. > > > My major > > > > > concern is I've read on various sites, > that TRT > > > will halt > > > > > your body from producing any > testosterone > > > naturally. I > > > > > can understand this can occur while I > am on the > > > treatment, > > > > > but what if I have to stop? > Will my body > > > " kick back > > > > > in " , and start producing > again? I understand, > > > and > > > > > accept my body will never produce > normal levels, > > > but minimal > > > > > function is better then a complete shut > down. > > > In other > > > > > words, I dont want to be on the stuff, > then am > > > " trapped " in > > > > > taking for the rest of my life, because > my testis > > > have been > > > > > shut down permanently (even when off > the > > > androgel). > > > > > > > > > > I have read sites, that state this > > > > > " hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal > axis "  shut > > > down while > > > > > on TRT, and those signals (LH/FSH) > never start > > > producing > > > > > again, hence the complete tesicular > " shut down " . > > > > > > > > > > Another way I can explain the concern > (beating a > > > dead horse > > > > > probably sorry). Lets say > (funky numbers); I > > > am > > > > > currently naturally producing T at 20% > of > > > normal. > > > > > While on TRT, I will produce > 0%. If for > > > whatever > > > > > reason I have to stop TRT. I > need to know, > > > will I go > > > > > back at functioning at 20%, or will it > be at 0% > > > forever from > > > > > that point on permanently. > > > > > > > > > > I've asked my Dr, and she doesnt seem > to get my > > > concern at > > > > > all. She asks why would I want > to stop the > > > treatment, > > > > > and I can think of a few. What > if I cannot > > > tolerate > > > > > the side effects? What If i lose my > health > > > insurance, and > > > > > cannot afford it out of > pocket? > > > > > > > > > > I am really hoping someone can help me > out. > > > I > > > > > certainly see the benefits this > treatment can do > > > to enhance > > > > > my sex life life. But if my > concerns can be > > > confirmed > > > > > as true and accurate, then I dont think > its a > > > gamble I > > > > > am willing to make. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2010 Report Share Posted August 6, 2010 Dam your getting the shi* from both sides if your E2 levels are this his this is why you have no sex life simple as that. Your Dr.'s are not up on this you don't lower a mans T dose to control E2 all this will do is make you crash and feel worse. I will say this until I am blue in the face you need to get your Total and Free T levels up into the upper 1/3 of your labs range for a young man and you need to keep your E2 down to about 20 pg/ml. And if your Thyroid and Adreanls are good your going to feel great as you keep them hormones leveled as time gose on your going to feel better and better a little everyday. Co-Moderator Phil > From: Pryor <j.pryor@...> > Subject: Androgel TRT > " ' ' " < > > Date: Friday, August 6, 2010, 4:48 PM > This is to everyone. > > How do you know for sure if you are Primary or Secondary? > I was told that I was Primary because I answered yes to > having the mumps as a child. But because I have fathered 4 > children the mumps virus only effected one testicle, but now > the other one is worn out and not producing fully, and they > told me that the injections would help out my testis. But > then I noticed that they were shrinking and was told > sometimes that happens and they start to shut down. The > blood work said that my pituitary gland was fine. I just > went back to the urologist and told them after 3 months on > T-Cyp injections I was still tired/no energy, no morning > wood, headaches...... She said that I may be a little > Secondary and that I need to go back to the Endo for more > testing. Today I did that and she basically told me why does > is matter the cause, the treatment is the same! But they are > going to check my Thyroid with this test, but they just > don't seem to care what the problem is they just want to > treat the symptoms. > > My GP wants me to start anti-depressants, and why shouldn't > I be depressed if my junk doesn't work the way its suppose > too. > My Urologist wants me to get a vacuum pump to do erection > therapy, and didn't seem to care that my Estradial was 84, > and I told them I need to lower it. She said that the Endo > would have to work on that. > My Endo says to drop my T-Cyp injections to 100mg every 10 > days, instead of 200mg, and that will lower my Estradial, > and they will do another lab next month. > > I am very frustrated! This is a pisser! (That's if I could > piss, and now have to take Uroxatral and Avodart to piss, > because the T-Cyp made the prostate swell!) > > Pryor > Sales- Pricing Analyst > American Tile > 972-280-0128 > E-mail: j.pryor@... > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2010 Report Share Posted August 8, 2010 Yeah it is very strange how gyno usually just flares up in one nipple or the other! Not saying it is Gyno related 4 sure of course, U can email me at 3Fingaz@... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: jtd1701d <jtd1701d@> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Androgel > > > > > TRT > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Friday, August 6, 2010, 5:57 PM > > > > > > > > > All my Endo did to rule out Secondary > > > > > > > > > was an MRI, which came back fine. > > > > > Then they > > > > > > > jumped to > > > > > > > > > the diagnosis that it was Primary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My doctor too also threw the line > > > > > " stop > > > > > > > concerning yourself > > > > > > > > > with the cause, and focus on > > > > > treatment " . I > > > > > > > REALLY do > > > > > > > > > not want to be on TRT if I dont want to > > > > > be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Phil, Just another ? please. The > > > > > Doctor > > > > > > > already > > > > > > > > > injected me with 300 MG of T on Tuesday > > > > > 8/3. > > > > > > > And wants > > > > > > > > > to see me in two weeks for another > > > > > Injection, > > > > > > > then start > > > > > > > > > Androgel. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After my own consideration and your > > > > > advice, I > > > > > > > will NOT get > > > > > > > > > that 2nd injection or start any TRT > > > > > until the > > > > > > > root cause is > > > > > > > > > found, and all options are exhausted. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I want to start with a new, competent > > > > > Endo. And > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > for the sake of my past test results, > > > > > and wanting > > > > > > > a BASELINE > > > > > > > > > - I want to get my labs retaken. > > > > > Again I was > > > > > > > injected > > > > > > > > > on 8/3, How long do I have to wait for > > > > > me to > > > > > > > " normalize " so > > > > > > > > > I can go for another blood test workup, > > > > > any > > > > > > > idea? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 I found this product, that claims to be Tamoxifen. The site says its completely legal to purchase w/out a prescription. some guy on another forum says it can be sold without a prescription because they brand these " chemicals " and not " drugs " and apparently in FDA eyes, it differs with regulation...? take look does this look legit? Liquid Tamox 50mL 20mg/mL Tamoxifen citrate is a SERM (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator) and belongs to the group of sex hormones as an anti-estrogen. http://www.ar-r.com/research-chemicals/serms/tamox-50ml-20mg-ml.html > > > > > > > > > > > From: jtd1701d <jtd1701d@> > > > > > > Subject: Re: Androgel TRT > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Friday, August 6, 2010, 5:57 PM > > > > > > All my Endo did to rule out Secondary > > > > > > was an MRI, which came back fine. Then they jumped to > > > > > > the diagnosis that it was Primary. > > > > > > > > > > > > My doctor too also threw the line " stop concerning yourself > > > > > > with the cause, and focus on treatment " . I REALLY do > > > > > > not want to be on TRT if I dont want to be. > > > > > > > > > > > > Phil, Just another ? please. The Doctor already > > > > > > injected me with 300 MG of T on Tuesday 8/3. And wants > > > > > > to see me in two weeks for another Injection, then start > > > > > > Androgel. > > > > > > > > > > > > After my own consideration and your advice, I will NOT get > > > > > > that 2nd injection or start any TRT until the root cause is > > > > > > found, and all options are exhausted. > > > > > > > > > > > > I want to start with a new, competent Endo. And just > > > > > > for the sake of my past test results, and wanting a BASELINE > > > > > > - I want to get my labs retaken. Again I was injected > > > > > > on 8/3, How long do I have to wait for me to " normalize " so > > > > > > I can go for another blood test workup, any idea? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 Yeah there are plenty of places that sell these products as research chemicals. They will state on their websites that they are not 4 human consumption 2 cover their backside. I think pill form would be preferable but there are plenty of people out there that use the liquid form with success. You just might have 2 use alittle more of the liquid forms 2 get an accurate dosage. I would also research a bunch of these research chemical places be4 i made a decision on which one I liked best. Maybe ask them what kind of references they have or where u can read some positive feedback about their service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: jtd1701d <jtd1701d@> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Androgel TRT > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Friday, August 6, 2010, 5:57 PM > > > > > > > All my Endo did to rule out Secondary > > > > > > > was an MRI, which came back fine. Then they jumped to > > > > > > > the diagnosis that it was Primary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My doctor too also threw the line " stop concerning yourself > > > > > > > with the cause, and focus on treatment " . I REALLY do > > > > > > > not want to be on TRT if I dont want to be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Phil, Just another ? please. The Doctor already > > > > > > > injected me with 300 MG of T on Tuesday 8/3. And wants > > > > > > > to see me in two weeks for another Injection, then start > > > > > > > Androgel. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After my own consideration and your advice, I will NOT get > > > > > > > that 2nd injection or start any TRT until the root cause is > > > > > > > found, and all options are exhausted. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I want to start with a new, competent Endo. And just > > > > > > > for the sake of my past test results, and wanting a BASELINE > > > > > > > - I want to get my labs retaken. Again I was injected > > > > > > > on 8/3, How long do I have to wait for me to " normalize " so > > > > > > > I can go for another blood test workup, any idea? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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